Jay Reffner: From the Chris Hansen Sting to Police Interrogation | TCAP Full Commentary

Ajouté : 2026-05-27

[00:00:00]Hi, I'm Brandon and I'm back to do a commentary on Jay Refner, Mr. Meet Rocket. I've had some requests for this guy. So, uh, we're gonna finally get around to doing them here. Let's get into it.

[00:00:11]>> Yeah. Where's he going? I'm plugged in and I'm connected here. F, can you hear me?

[00:00:16]>> We switched to four.

[00:00:17]>> Oh, yeah. He's here. We got somebody out front. We have somebody out front. Come on. He's pulling in the driver. Chris, do we have anything to tell him?

[00:00:26]>> Thanks, Scott. Meet Rocket.

[00:00:30]Hey, come on in. I just got to get my coat off.

[00:00:34]>> I really don't like this guy. Like, even just the second he looks in, just that stupid look on his face kind of makes me makes me angry.

[00:00:43]>> [ __ ] it.

[00:00:47]>> Hey, come on in. I just got to get my coat off.

[00:00:49]>> Like, he's just looking around like it's part dumb, part curious, part predatory.

[00:00:54]Like, I just I don't I hate the look of his face. He looks like an old man that had makeup put on or prosthetics to make him look younger. Like he's just like a little bit chubby. Just kind of gross looking guy.

[00:01:08]>> Freezing out. Dude, >> just hanging out the bar for a second.

[00:01:13]>> I like how he's Meat Rocket 8 because there are seven other geniuses out there that came up with the amazing uh screen name of Meat Rocket. Okie >> do.

[00:01:25]True.

[00:01:28]Do >> you have a hard time finding the place?

[00:01:30]>> Not at all. How are you today?

[00:01:32]>> Good. How are you?

[00:01:33]>> I'm doing good. What can I do for you?

[00:01:35][laughter] >> What can I do for you? You're in his house. You don't show up at someone's house and ask what you can do for them.

[00:01:43]>> That was my question to you. What can I do for you?

[00:01:45]>> Well, >> who are you going to meet here tonight?

[00:01:48]>> Sarah.

[00:01:48]>> Sarah. Sarah is how old?

[00:01:51]>> She's 15.

[00:01:52]>> 15.

[00:01:53]>> Well, she just said that. Yeah.

[00:01:54]>> Yeah. Move your hand away from your mouth when you speak. Jay.

[00:01:58]>> And how old are you?

[00:01:59]>> I'm 30. My name is Jay.

[00:02:01]>> Jay. Chris.

[00:02:02]>> I like how he just kind of uh quickly says his name and then uh tries to make a distraction by shaking his hand. I am uh I'm 30. Hi. Nice to meet you. I'm Jay. Let's watch that again.

[00:02:13]>> Sarah is how old?

[00:02:14]>> She's 15.

[00:02:16]>> 15.

[00:02:16]>> Well, she just said that. Yeah.

[00:02:17]>> Yeah. And how old are you?

[00:02:19]>> I'm 30. My name is Jay.

[00:02:20]>> Jay. Chris, nice to see you.

[00:02:21]>> It's nice to meet you, too. To be quite honest with you, I'm not at all.

[00:02:26]>> Look at that shot there.

[00:02:29]He just looks like Chris is just standing there. Like Chris is so big that even like his the top of his head gets cut off by the the camera frame and then Jay's just like this tiny little meatball guy that's sitting there. And hey, don't don't touch those chips in that bowl. Those belong to Kevin Westerbeck. honest with you, I'm not at all in any way, shape, or form, you know, some sort of pedophile or anything like that.

[00:02:55]>> Well, you're not some sort. You are one.

[00:02:57]>> Do you often come to visit young girls after chats on the internet?

[00:03:01]>> Never.

[00:03:03]>> Never.

[00:03:04]>> Never. Well, I can think of at least one time you did, and that time is now.

[00:03:10]>> Did you bring anything with you tonight, >> such as condoms?

[00:03:15]Yes, I did.

[00:03:16]>> You did. You brought condoms. So, you're just going to kick back and chat and just in case something happened, you brought condoms.

[00:03:22]>> Yeah. Look, here's the deal.

[00:03:23]>> Will you put them on the table, please?

[00:03:25]>> You do not get to tell Chris what the deal is, buddy. Chris tells you what the deal is. And yeah, this guy is like the weakest little wimpy meatball ever. He's not going to lay down the law with Chris. Here's what's going to happen.

[00:03:38]It's like, no, buddy. Yeah, I don't like this guy >> with you tonight.

[00:03:43]such as >> condoms.

[00:03:46]>> Yes, I did.

[00:03:46]>> You did? You brought condoms. So, you're just going to kick back and chat and just in case something happened, you brought condoms.

[00:03:52]>> Yeah. Look, here's the deal.

[00:03:54]>> Will you put them on the table, please?

[00:03:55]>> I'm sorry.

[00:03:56]>> The condoms.

[00:03:59]There you go. So, you had a big night planned, huh?

[00:04:02]>> No. Please listen to me.

[00:04:04]>> Hey, when Chris tells you to put them on the table, you keep them on the table.

[00:04:07]You don't put them back in your pocket.

[00:04:08]>> God, got nothing but time.

[00:04:10]>> There's nothing. I swear I don't want to do anything, you know. I I don't want to hurt anyone. I I just wanted to talk. I swear to you. You know, >> if you just wanted to talk, why did you bring the condoms? Oh, man. I hate this guy.

[00:04:26]>> How were you going to use the condoms in the >> I wasn't going to use them at all.

[00:04:29]>> Oh, she was going to use them. I see.

[00:04:31]>> Your pocket?

[00:04:32]>> Well, yeah, I do.

[00:04:33]>> You do balloon tricks with them or >> No.

[00:04:36]>> Well, come on. I mean, >> I am >> there. There's only one reason typically that people bring condoms to a home >> and that's for protection during sex.

[00:04:45]>> Yeah. And [snorts] >> there's only two people in this house.

[00:04:49]>> Well, I mean, as far as Jay knows, there's now three people in the house.

[00:04:53]So, but >> as far as you know, you and a 15-year-old girl. So, what am I to think about this?

[00:05:00]>> Got a family at home. I love them dearly. You know, >> you have kids.

[00:05:06]>> Yes.

[00:05:06]>> How old are your kids? I have one daughter and two stepsons from my wife's previous marriage.

[00:05:12]>> So if your daughter was >> could this guy just try to speak like a man? Like is he just trying to make his voice sound as weak and wimpy as possible if he just makes himself small and weak that somehow Chris will show him mercy? Like he just I hate the way he talks.

[00:05:32]>> Was home alone and some guy who was 30 and came to visit. you would feel how.

[00:05:39]>> All right. Understand and sympathize.

[00:05:41]Very upset.

[00:05:42]>> Here's a guy who's got a a wife and child at home and and he's out on a weekend night, you know, several miles away at a stranger's home to meet a young teenage girl. I mean, what excuse did he give to to go there? The realization of what he's really doing hits home with him.

[00:06:03]And you can see this in his face.

[00:06:05]You're a virgin, eh?

[00:06:08]I bet you're scared of that, she says.

[00:06:11]Why would that scare me? Guys are always scared of that. Actually, I find it quite attractive.

[00:06:17]>> Sir, I I know what I wrote. Can you mind if I take off my coat?

[00:06:20]>> Please go ahead.

[00:06:21]>> Please sit down, Jay. Get comfortable.

[00:06:25]You're not going to be going home for a while, so you may as well enjoy your experience while you're sitting here.

[00:06:29]>> I mean, these are your words, right?

[00:06:32]>> Yeah, they completely are. I'm not going to lie to you, sir.

[00:06:37]>> The thing is, some woman out there willingly married this guy.

[00:06:43]And from that, we assume that she willingly has sex with him on a somewhat regular basis. Probably he has that in his life. He probably has a job. He has a kid. He has a family. Things are going well for him. And then he does this.

[00:06:58]This guy deserves a harsh punishment.

[00:07:00]Not that any guy should be doing this kind of thing, but this guy should be lucky that any woman shows any interest in him. And he's like, "You know what?

[00:07:07]I'm just going to throw that all away to to go over and and uh meet a 15-year-old."

[00:07:13]>> I'm honored to be considered the candidate for your first.

[00:07:17]>> Again, playful chat.

[00:07:20]>> Playful chat. It sounds like you're >> That is not playful chat, you idiot.

[00:07:24]That is criminal. You're saying this to an underage person. He's just trying to like Yeah. All the other guys say the same thing. Oh, it's just chat. Like somehow the the chat and real life are are different. It's like you're still communicating with a minor. It's still wrong.

[00:07:37]>> You're excited about the fact that she's a virgin and you might be the first man to have sex with her, >> right?

[00:07:42]>> Sir, I really >> I mean, the term man is used very loosely here, but uh I can see what he's getting at.

[00:07:49]>> I wasn't going to do that.

[00:07:50]>> He knows he's in trouble at this point.

[00:07:52]You know, he he he's starting to admit what he was up to. He's anxious. He's persspiring.

[00:07:58]You can see it. And he just really wants this to be over.

[00:08:02]>> There's a couple things you need to know.

[00:08:05]I'm Chris Hansen with Dline NBC.

[00:08:08]We're doing a story on adults who meet teens on the internet.

[00:08:12]>> Run, Jay. Run.

[00:08:14]>> You have anything else you'd like to say? We'd be happy to hear it.

[00:08:21]>> I like how he just stops and looks back there for a second. on adults who meet teens on the internet. If you have anything else you'd like to say, we'd be happy to hear it.

[00:08:35][laughter] >> Is it just me or it almost seems like there's a theme in the show of the color red. We have uh this guy's red jacket.

[00:08:45]We have uh Timothy Isaac with the the red motif going on. And then the the red curtain hanging in the doorway and the in the riverside sting.

[00:08:54]>> Why did you bring the condoms?

[00:08:57]>> Cuz it was dumb.

[00:08:58]>> Do you normally wear condoms while you're having sexual intercourse with your wife?

[00:09:02]>> No.

[00:09:03]>> Okay. Why did you buy the condoms today?

[00:09:06]>> Cuz you intended to come here to my county >> and have sex with a 15-year-old female.

[00:09:11]>> Yeah. These uh these cops really let they really just spell it out. There there's no uh being friendly with the guy and getting him to talk. They just they just grill him and tell him the way it is.

[00:09:22]>> She told you that she didn't want to get Prager's. You said that you didn't want that either.

[00:09:28]>> Does your wife know where you're at right now?

[00:09:30]>> No.

[00:09:32]>> Where is she at right now?

[00:09:33]>> Yeah, of course not. I have the feeling if Jeff was like, "Hey, I met this 15-year-old girl online. I'm going to go over to her house to visit her, but don't worry. We're just going to talk."

[00:09:41]I have a feeling his wife would have a problem with that.

[00:09:45]She's with my daughter on a camping trip.

[00:09:47]>> Listen up a minute. You got the right to main sign. You understand that?

[00:09:51]>> Ah. While the cat's away. Huh? While the cat's away, Jay gets arrested and goes to jail.

[00:09:57]>> Anything you say, you can't want to be used against you in a court of law. Do you understand that?

[00:10:01]>> Your mom's a city prosecutor and your dad's a cop. You should probably >> Yeah. What a He just comes from a family of law enforcement and they they just have like a complete [ __ ] of a kid like Jay Refner. probably have a little bit more common sense about things that we're doing out here tonight. Okay.

[00:10:16]>> Interesting thing about Jay Refner is once he's arrested and processed and taken in for questioning, it turns out that his mother is a prosecutor in a nearby county and his father uh was a police officer.

[00:10:36]And we start off here with a moment of peak excitement is uh watching this cop write on a piece of paper.

[00:10:47]>> Who are you coming to visit today? What what was her real name?

[00:10:52]>> Well, she told me it was Sarah, but >> said her name was Sarah.

[00:11:00]And [snorts] what was her screen name?

[00:11:05]right there.

[00:11:06]>> Is that right? Bush sucks girl.

[00:11:11]>> That sounds right.

[00:11:18]>> Damn. They got to get these guys like a laptop or something so they can speed this process up.

[00:11:23]>> You looking for something in particular or >> just anything?

[00:11:27]>> Oh yeah. Not too much in there.

[00:11:34]>> How did you first meet her online?

[00:11:38]>> Yahoo.

[00:11:39]>> H >> Yahoo.

[00:11:41]>> Yahoo.

[00:11:42]>> Yahoo.

[00:11:42]>> Like in a chat chat line, >> sir.

[00:11:48]When did you meet her?

[00:11:50]>> I've never met her.

[00:11:52]>> When did you meet her in the chat room?

[00:11:54]>> Well, >> when was the first time you started talking to her?

[00:11:58]>> Earlier today.

[00:11:59]>> Earlier today. Had you talked to her previously today?

[00:12:02]>> Before today?

[00:12:03]>> Yes. Never seen her before in the chat rooms. Never spoke to her before.

[00:12:06]>> What is it with this cameraman? He's like half hiding in this room. So like part of the screen's blocked off by the door. They do that in the new Takedown ones, too, where they I don't know.

[00:12:15]They're trying to like make it exciting and get like a cool shot. So they have it kind of like peeking out the side like like it's looking out through a crack in a door or something. Like why would the NBC or anyone use this shot?

[00:12:27]It looks so crappy. You can't see the cop that's talking and you see the back of uh Jay Refner's head. Like this is not a good shot for a professional cameraman. Why doesn't you just take the camera out where it was and just get a nice shot and leave it there so we can listen?

[00:12:40]>> No, I usually don't go to the chat rooms very often at all.

[00:12:44]>> Can I have your phone number? Home?

[00:12:47]>> My home phone?

[00:12:48]>> Why is that?

[00:12:49]>> So we can call you about your vehicle.

[00:12:51]>> You can what?

[00:12:52]>> So we can call you about your vehicle.

[00:12:54]>> I won't be there. [clears throat] Well, you will be eventually. We need a home.

[00:12:59]>> Don't give attitude, Jay. You are the last guy who is in the last position to ever give attitude to police.

[00:13:07]>> Do you know how old the person was that you were supposed to be coming to visit today?

[00:13:11]>> Didn't we already go over that?

[00:13:12]>> Mhm. I I got to ask these questions like three or four times because they got questions on here. I got to ask questions from there.

[00:13:20]>> Okay. So, I'm asking you again. Well, >> how old was the female that you were supposed to come and meet?

[00:13:25]>> She never told me when we were online.

[00:13:27]>> Okay. At any >> She did. She told you in the chat how old she was >> time. Did you know how old the female was?

[00:13:36]>> Post entry? No.

[00:13:39]>> He didn't say post entry. He said at any time.

[00:13:42]>> A pre- entry. No.

[00:13:45]>> Yes. You They wouldn't be doing this sting if they didn't say the age. If you were not coming to meet someone underage, you would not be here because you would not be in trouble. The whole reason they're arresting you is because they clearly state the age in every single chat. So don't lie.

[00:13:59]>> Okay.

[00:14:00]>> At any time, did you know how old the female was that was inside?

[00:14:07]>> No, not until I entered the house and then she had indicated that she was drinking.

[00:14:12]>> I am speaking English right at any time.

[00:14:16]Any time. Do you know how old she is now?

[00:14:18]>> Well, so >> she said behind the wall that she was six or turning 16 15.

[00:14:24]>> Okay.

[00:14:25]>> Did you ever view her?

[00:14:27]>> Behind what wall is he talking like in the house? Behind the wall? Because it doesn't m if someone says their age. It doesn't matter where they say it.

[00:14:36]>> Did you ever take a look at her profile >> on the Yahoo profile?

[00:14:40]>> Yeah. On her Yahoo profile. Did it indicate on there what her age was? Did you click that?

[00:14:43]>> That's kind of worthless. It really doesn't mean anything. what it is >> that is not kind of worthless cuz you're sitting here in handcuffs being after being arrested and you're going to go to prison for this. It stop I hate when these guys just claim that like whatever whatever they said online is meaningless. It doesn't count. It absolutely does count. None of these guys get away with this crime for saying that. How could they possibly believe that? So you believed her address. You believed all the stuff you were going to do. You believed everything else. All that was uh meaningful. But the age of the person, that is meaningless.

[00:15:16]>> Say on there, I've never seen it.

[00:15:18]>> Her age?

[00:15:18]>> Yeah, >> it said she was 15.

[00:15:21]>> It said she was 15 on the profile. When did you notice that?

[00:15:26]>> Well, a little bit before. I don't know.

[00:15:28]>> When she was behind a wall, >> half hour before I came or left or whatever.

[00:15:32]>> Oh, so it was today. I mean, you didn't notice it before?

[00:15:34]>> It was the first time I spoke with her.

[00:15:36]>> So, you knew that she was possibly 15 before you left your house today. Is that right?

[00:15:40]>> Okay.

[00:15:41]that really holds no credibility or weight when you sign up for those profiles and anybody you can put any false information. People say they're 130 on there.

[00:15:48]>> Mhm.

[00:15:49]>> It really is irrelevant.

[00:15:50]>> Is not irrelevant. And no one says they're 130. Like stop trying to make it look like age is meaningless. You wouldn't go to meet someone unless you confirmed what their age was. And especially back in the days of these chats, they frequently begin it with ASL, age, sex, location. So you say your age and they say their age. If age was not important and if everyone lied and it wasn't a big deal, it was completely meaningless. You wouldn't ask for that up upfront. Things like age, sex, and location, especially if you're looking for some sort of sexual hookup, is very, very important. You're not going to go if it might be a guy, it might be a girl. No, you're going to go only if it's the one that you prefer. And you're and you should only go if it's an adult.

[00:16:30]So, stop trying to say like anyone could put anything and it's meaningless.

[00:16:33]>> But why would you come to somebody's house that is telling you that they're 15 years old?

[00:16:36]>> She didn't tell me that. when >> profile told you there she was 15 years old. No, >> she didn't say that online. I'm just saying the profile said that.

[00:16:43]>> Okay. The profile on her.

[00:16:46]>> If the profile said that, that still counts.

[00:16:49]>> Yahoo chat said she was 15.

[00:16:51]>> And as far as the integrity goes of that, it's meaningless cuz people say that there could be 130 or whatever. So, it really doesn't mean anything.

[00:16:58]>> So, if this girl said she was six, you would have come out here too.

[00:17:02]The thing is, yeah, if this woman had have said that she was uh say 55 years old, he would not have come. The only reason he came is because she said she was 15. So, we can't say it was meaningless.

[00:17:13]>> Come on.

[00:17:14]>> No. It's kind of kind of hard to have a conversation with a six-year-old.

[00:17:18]>> No, it's not. I mean, how how old would >> And and if it's completely meaningless, it might be an older person lying that they're six. No, it's he's full of [ __ ] An >> intellectual conversation. How old would have the chat ID had have said she was before you wouldn't have come today with condoms?

[00:17:35]>> The profile.

[00:17:37]>> Uhhuh.

[00:17:38]>> Well, again, the profile is has no bearing or weight.

[00:17:42]>> Mhm.

[00:17:42]>> Because it really doesn't mean anything.

[00:17:44]>> Sure. Tell the judge or the jury that the fact that this profile that you selected out of many profiles said female, age 15, and you're the one that picked her, had a sexual conversation, and drove to her house with condoms.

[00:17:56]Yeah. Try telling that judge or the jury that uh oh yeah that that number 15 that had absolutely no weight.

[00:18:03]>> Whatever you want 15 years old, right?

[00:18:05]>> You assume >> when I left, >> did you have to assume that you >> No adult person I've said this before.

[00:18:10]No adult person is ever going to lie that they are underage. If you're an adult, you have special privileges.

[00:18:16]That's why underage people lie about their age to get into bars and that kind of thing to buy alcohol because you get special privileges. Once you reach that age of 18 or 21 or whatever it is where you get more privileges, you're not going to lie about being younger. Like older people might lie just because they think it makes them look more attractive. You know, if you're middle-aged, you might knock 10, 20 years off like some of these idiots do just so they can appear younger and they think it makes them more attractive. But no one who's like, especially a younger woman who's like say early 20s kind of thing or even like early 30s is going to lie about being a teenager just for no reason other than the fact that people could put whatever they want on there.

[00:18:56]There would be no benefit of it. It's more likely they would get in trouble if they're trying to use this profile to meet people. They would get in trouble for being underage. So you can say that it's meaningless and no one would ever ever lie.

[00:19:06]>> She was 15 years old if you didn't ask her any questions. I didn't have any idea how old she was when I was.

[00:19:12]>> And just the fact that she did say 15, wouldn't you want to confirm that before you went over there just in case she was telling the truth? Be like, "Hey, I noticed that your profile said you're 15. You were just joking about that, right? Uh, can I get your real age?"

[00:19:26]Like something along those lines.

[00:19:27]Something that that shows that you actually thought the [ __ ] that you're saying here, but he didn't. He just came over and figured however old she was. But she might have been she might have also been 14 or 16 or 17 or 50 if what he's saying is true. Like you wouldn't go over there to meet someone unless you had a rough idea of their age.

[00:19:44]>> You had an idea. You had an idea that she might be [clears throat] 15 years old.

[00:19:48]>> Possibly.

[00:19:49]She could have been 80 for all I know.

[00:19:51]>> Mhm.

[00:19:52]>> And if she was 80, you would not have gone over there. Like shut up, Jay.

[00:19:55]>> But her chat line said 15.

[00:19:57]>> Her what?

[00:19:58]>> Her chat ID said 15. Correct.

[00:20:02]>> What's her chat ID? No, her chat ID is Bush. Whatever.

[00:20:06]>> You know what he's saying. Stop. Stop being a smartass.

[00:20:10]>> Her profile.

[00:20:11]>> Her profile.

[00:20:12]>> Her chat ID, however you want to speak, >> said >> her profile says >> that she's 15. Correct.

[00:20:19]>> Yes, it does say that.

[00:20:20]>> Okay.

[00:20:21]>> Well, you could go look for yourself.

[00:20:23]>> But >> they did. They did. They have it there.

[00:20:26]It's called evidence J.

[00:20:27]>> Yeah. It doesn't mean anything.

[00:20:30]>> Is this guy just like a mouthy little smartass? because he's arrogant because of who his mom was. She was like a a district attorney or something. And he just grew up being like, "My mom could put your mom in jail, so you can't tell me what to do." And that just kind of carried over into adulthood where he's just like mouthy. This guy has no reason to be mouthy. He's literally in handcuffs having been arrested for committing a horrible crime. And he's just like a dumpy, dopey looking guy. He doesn't get to mouth off to anyone.

[00:21:02]So, [snorts] you're making sexual advances to this female whose profile says she's 15.

[00:21:08]>> What were you thinking?

[00:21:12]>> I never made any sexual advances to her.

[00:21:14]And you mean online?

[00:21:17]>> Have you ever received oral?

[00:21:18]>> Where else would you have done it? You only talked online. Then you drove to the house and got busted. You guys never met before. Of course, he means online.

[00:21:26]>> Online?

[00:21:29]Yeah, that was just place her.

[00:21:31]>> If you would like, I'd love to take your hand and show you.

[00:21:35]I'm sorry. Take your hand and show you.

[00:21:41]>> Show them what. Come on. Don't keep me in suspense.

[00:21:48]>> I mean, we don't have to read through all this, right? You already know that you made sexual advances towards >> Did he not have the other page or something? Why did he leave us hanging like that?

[00:21:58]a female online profile was 15. Is that correct?

[00:22:02]>> We talked >> and then you just drove two and a half hours to see her. Is that correct?

[00:22:06]>> I just want to make sure I got this all right before I go on further. So, I don't have to ask these questions again.

[00:22:13]>> You stated here, would you like me to you and that you said that also that you would keep it wrapped?

[00:22:26]And they also stated here uh somewhere along in the dialogue up here um you had believed that she was a virgin and you had indicated that you would be honored to be considered the candidate for her first.

[00:22:37]>> Yeah. If he thought that she was a virgin obviously he must have had some idea of her age because grown women who are his age generally are not virgins.

[00:22:48]So you can't say that she might have been 80. No, he knew exactly what she was.

[00:22:54]She told you that she didn't want to get pers. You said that you didn't want that either.

[00:23:00]>> Why do everyone in these chats always use that word pers? It's kind of a It's kind of disgusting language.

[00:23:06]>> You asked her if she's ever received oral and told her that she's really missing out.

[00:23:13]If you would like, I'd love to take your hand and show you.

[00:23:18]Do what feels good. Do what feels right.

[00:23:20]And stop where it doesn't. Oh, finally.

[00:23:23]Now I'm satisfied that I heard the end of that statement.

[00:23:29]>> Do you have any phone conversations with this person?

[00:23:33]>> H.

[00:23:33]>> Do you have any phone conversations with this person?

[00:23:37]>> No.

[00:23:38]>> Never.

[00:23:39]>> This person?

[00:23:40]>> Yes.

[00:23:40]>> No.

[00:23:41]>> Okay.

[00:23:42]>> His whole attitude just pisses me off.

[00:23:45]He acts like he's just annoyed to be there. Like they're just like they're asking dumb questions and they they're not smart enough to understand how things work. Like I hate this guy.

[00:24:01]>> Where's the computer located that you were using to communicate with this person today?

[00:24:06]>> Home.

[00:24:07]>> At home. Was it a laptop or is it a regular personal computer?

[00:24:11]>> Laptop.

[00:24:23]What year is your vehicle, sir?

[00:24:25]>> Took two >> 2002.

[00:24:29]>> Sir, >> Ford Escape.

[00:24:30]>> What?

[00:24:31]>> It's a Ford Escape, >> sir.

[00:24:39]>> I already advise you that your car is being impounded and the vehicle will be inventoried. Is there anything else in the vehicle that we're going to find?

[00:24:45]Are we going to find any type of toys?

[00:24:47]Sexual toys?

[00:24:49]>> Children's toys?

[00:24:50]>> Children's toys. Any other condoms, alcohol, drugs?

[00:24:55]>> Stop rolling your eyes and making stupid faces.

[00:24:58]>> Drugs or alcohol? There was probably one other condom in there, but that's it.

[00:25:02]>> One other condom other than this.

[00:25:04]>> Well, one one individual one. Yeah, >> one individual condom.

[00:25:11]probably some McDonald's food.

[00:25:15]Few books, kids books.

[00:25:22]>> What's your license plate number? Do you recall >> at home? Do you have any explicit pictures of uh child pornography or anything like that on your computer? Nope. Never.

[00:25:42]It's not my thing.

[00:25:44]>> Just come to the house to do it. That's your thing.

[00:25:51]>> Do you have any type of port on your computer at all?

[00:25:57]>> Adult.

[00:25:58]>> Adult.

[00:26:04]>> Does your wife know where you're at right now?

[00:26:07]>> No. Where is she at right now?

[00:26:10]>> She's with my daughter on a camping trip in Lima.

[00:26:16]>> Does anyone else find it kind of odd for a family to go on a camping trip without the dad? It just seems like a whole family go camping. I've never heard of like the mom going camping with the kids without the and the dad stays home. It just seems it's more of a dad activity.

[00:26:39]Your wife have a cell phone?

[00:26:41]>> Yes.

[00:26:42]>> Is there a contact here? What's your phone number?

[00:26:44]>> She probably has it turned off.

[00:26:47]>> Okay. What's your phone number?

[00:26:50]>> Have you ever done this before? Have you ever traveled anywhere to see anybody?

[00:26:56]>> Have you ever traveled anywhere to see anyone? Well, yeah. I mean, I tra I'm sure he traveled to the living room to see his wife. You have to be more specific. I travel to the dentist to get my teeth cleaned. I mean, you kind of It's impossible not to travel to somewhere to meet someone.

[00:27:12]>> Somebody online. This is the very first time that you've ever met somebody online and gone to their house to meet them. Whether they were of age or not of age?

[00:27:20]>> No, I met a a lady [clears throat] had dinner lunch with her. This was like a was about a year ago.

[00:27:27]>> And how old was she?

[00:27:28]>> Is it just the the time of this where it was more rare to meet someone online?

[00:27:32]Because I'd say probably like six times a week I meet someone online to meet like through my business or just if they're friends like, "Hey, you want to hang out? Okay, sure." And then you go meet somewhere or just business contacts. Like every everyone does that, right? It seems weird to think there's a chance that someone's gone their whole life without ever meeting someone online and then going to meet them. Like that's kind of how the world operates. So either these cops are dumb or maybe it's just the the era that is happening that was more rare.

[00:28:05]>> She 32 at the time.

[00:28:07]>> 32 at the time.

[00:28:09]>> Have you ever met any juveniles online?

[00:28:11]>> Never.

[00:28:11]>> Do you chat online with juveniles regularly?

[00:28:14]>> Never. I rarely chat.

[00:28:16]>> You rarely ever chat?

[00:28:18]>> Yeah.

[00:28:18]>> This is the first time that you ever got on your computer and chatted with a person that was underage >> and you drove two and a half hours to come to see her.

[00:28:26]>> Yeah.

[00:28:26]>> Tonight.

[00:28:27]>> I uh I have a friend >> [clears throat] >> I have a friend that she's 28 that we talk a lot. She lives down in southern Ohio, but we just talk.

[00:28:39]And other than that, I really don't chat much in all honesty.

[00:28:46]>> Well, your batting average for doing this is pretty horrible. If you rarely ever do this and then you do it this time and get arrested for it, the it's not looking good for you. You should probably just stop because you're no good at it.

[00:28:58]Why did you choose Dark County?

[00:29:01]>> Choose what?

[00:29:01]>> To come here. Why did you choose to come to Dark County?

[00:29:05]>> That's the county here.

[00:29:06]>> Mhm.

[00:29:07]>> Why did you choose to come here? I mean, what was what was it that for the very first time in your life, you decided, you know what? I'm going to I'm going to take a chance. I'm going to go down here.

[00:29:18]>> Yeah. Just random circumstance, I guess.

[00:29:21]I didn't choose to come down here, per se. I mean, just came to talk to.

[00:29:30]>> Yeah. Like I'm I'm not defending anything Jayce says, but it is kind of a dumb question like why did you come to Dark County? Well, obviously to meet this person. He wasn't going there just because he wanted to go to that particular county. He was going there just to meet that particular person and he would have gone to meet her regardless of which county it was. So, it's not like he just had it in for that place. So, the the way they phrase the question is kind of odd. to her Sarah, whatever her name really is. But you really had nothing to do with Dark County, if you will. If >> is that what you're asking?

[00:30:03]>> Uh, yeah. I mean, was there any reason why you came here?

[00:30:06]>> Not at all. I [clears throat] don't know. Why would that be?

[00:30:09]>> Stop scrunching up your face, Jay. I just gave you your defense for you. I just said that the question is dumb. You don't need to follow it up with more uh more attitude.

[00:30:18]>> I don't know. I'm asking you.

[00:30:20]No, I've never been here in my life, actually.

[00:30:26]>> Did you tell anyone that you were coming here today?

[00:30:29]>> No.

[00:30:30]>> Nobody that you know, anybody knows that you've come here today? Is that right?

[00:30:36]>> Like friends or family or what?

[00:30:37]>> Yeah.

[00:30:38]>> Friends, family, people that you know other than law enforcement and dine, nobody knows that you're here. No. No one. Okay. Do [snorts] >> you have all the personal information that you're going to need?

[00:30:57]>> Yes.

[00:31:04]>> Have you ever had sex with anybody under the age of 18?

[00:31:08]>> No, >> just me and my wife. What is your job at uh the University of Fedley?

[00:31:18]>> Data communications.

[00:31:19]>> Data communications. Are you a teacher?

[00:31:22]>> No.

[00:31:23]>> What's data communications? What What do you do?

[00:31:27]>> I run the internet and the network and I manage six pe no five people running servers and stuff. Telephone, PBX, that type of stuff. Does that make sense?

[00:31:45]So, you run the internet program through Finley University, >> something like that.

[00:31:49]>> I mean, is that what your job title would be? What would your job title be?

[00:31:53]>> Network systems manager.

[00:31:55]>> Okay.

[00:31:57]>> It's my official title.

[00:32:01]>> He's kind of got this combination of acting like a sad, pathetic, wimpy loser, but also just an arrogant, mouthy idiot. play. He's I don't know. It's It It makes for a very very annoying shitty personality.

[00:32:22]>> I copied 22.

[00:32:23]>> Sure.

[00:32:24]>> Yes.

[00:32:26]>> Anything I can do >> for >> anything?

[00:32:32]20220.

[00:32:33]>> 2220.

[00:32:39]>> Nope. What I'm going to have him do is unhand you. Uh I'm going to read this form to you real quick. [clears throat] It's basically a permission to search your vehicle. Um obviously we're going to do go through it and impound it, but we're getting everybody to sign a permission to search if you agree. Okay.

[00:33:00]The understand sign residing at your address 417 Nevada Lane, Finley, Ohio 45840 [clears throat] does voluntarily authorize Detective Haynes, which is myself and other officers which he may designate to assist him to search my computer which is located at your residence and my motor vehicle namely 2002 Ford Escape uh bearing license plate number which we don't from Ohio.

[00:33:33]>> Beautiful shot of the condoms there.

[00:33:36]Camera guy >> which is a sheriff's office.

[00:33:41]>> So I don't have a problem with you searching the car at all. But the computer I don't have a problem searching computer but because of the fact of my position at my work >> Mhm.

[00:33:50]>> you know I've got a lot of security sensitive information which is pertinent to that job you know to my job.

[00:33:55]>> Mhm. So because of that um you know how do we go about handling that keeping maintain the integrity of that stuff?

[00:34:06]>> Well basically what's going to happen is of course going to want to probably seize your computer to find out what type of pornographic material you have on there. Obviously you know there's an issue like that. So we're going to check it probably check your chat logs with you know against this stuff but your computer's not here right now. So, the court's going to probably, you know, try to have it seized, you know, through you, >> through me, >> right? Try to contact you, get it seized, cuz we're not going to drive up there and see the computer tonight.

[00:34:36]>> Well, obviously.

[00:34:38]Okay. Well, I'm just concerned about that information for work at all is all.

[00:34:43]That's all, >> right? We're not interested in what you do for work unless what you do for work is illegal. Okay.

[00:34:49]>> Are you right or left-handed? Me, >> right?

[00:34:52]>> Okay.

[00:34:58]Sir, >> go ahead. Just what I want you to do.

[00:35:12]Look, >> I'm sorry.

[00:35:13]>> I want you to read the statement aloud.

[00:35:14]Just make sure you understand the right reference this form >> out loud.

[00:35:19]>> Yeah. I am given this written permission to these officers freely and voluntarily without any threats or promises having been made and after having been informed by said officer that I have a right to refuse this search and or seizure. You >> understand you can refuse to sign this piece of paper if you wish.

[00:35:37]>> Right.

[00:35:38]>> Okay. [clears throat] >> Nothing of any significance on there.

[00:35:41]>> Okay.

[00:35:41]>> In there.

[00:35:49]Right this way, sir.

[00:35:51]>> You just put your head right up here on this mat.

[00:35:53]>> On it?

[00:35:53]>> Yep. On it. Go ahead and pull your feet back towards me and lean into the mat.

[00:35:59]You have anything on you I need you to know about? Anything that's going to hurt me? You have any drugs on you?

[00:36:05]>> Okay.

[00:36:06]>> I have a bear trap in my right breast pocket.

[00:36:22]I need you to pull your feet back towards you again. Spread them out.

[00:36:28]>> Okay.

[00:36:28]>> Yep. That's fine.

[00:36:37]>> I'm going to take your hand test off.

[00:36:38]And when I do, I need you to place your hands up on the wall.

[00:36:47]All right.

[00:36:52]>> Anything else for us?

[00:36:53]>> No, you just have your test back.

[00:36:56]>> You're free to go.

[00:37:03]>> Go ahead and take your coat off for me.

[00:37:05]Stand up and do that. Just hand it to me and then place your hands back up on the wall.

[00:37:15]Gohead and spread your legs apart again.

[00:37:17]Go ahead and spread your legs out for me.

[00:37:26]You got anything in your pockets?

[00:37:28]There's some change in one of them.

[00:37:30]>> Yeah, there's no You guys have your watch on and that's it. You have a watch on.

[00:37:54]>> It just must be hard having a job where part of your day is spent feeling up Jay Refner. I think you probably have to go home at the end of the day and just really really re rethink your life.

[00:38:10]Okay. Can you turn take your watch off?

[00:38:14]Any piercings or anything I need to know about? What size shoes you wear?

[00:38:18]>> Besides shoes.

[00:38:20]>> Eight. Go ahead and take your shoes off and your socks. And I'm going to need to see the bottoms of your feet. Stephen, you want to grab some socks?

[00:38:28]>> Yeah. Put them inside out and come your shoe. Okay. Like that.

[00:38:32]>> Yep.

[00:38:40]This isn't all that exciting, but if you guys have stuck with me this far, we may as well just watch the rest of it and see what happens.

[00:38:49]Go ahead and face the wall and pick up both feet one at a time. Let me see the bottom of it.

[00:38:56]>> That's fine. Okay.

[00:39:03]Put these sandals on.

[00:39:11]>> Look at me.

[00:39:13]I need you to take your fingers and sweep the gun down for me. Up the top and then down the bottom.

[00:39:27]>> Yeah, we're going to go down this hallway right here to this door.

[00:39:34]Sorry.

[00:39:37]Have a seat. We'll be with you in a few minutes. Okay.

[00:39:41]>> Ray, when we get you back out, we got another one coming in. We're going to pat him down, put him away, and get you out of here.

[00:39:46]>> I wonder who that is.

[00:40:00]I wonder when all these guys like were put together in a cell and you sometimes you see them all like shackled together as they're walking along. I wonder if they felt like the Avengers of the Predator world.

[00:40:14]>> What kind of shot? Why do you have to zoom in on the lock? This cameraman's annoying.

[00:40:22]>> Yes, sir.

[00:40:29]>> Oh, sorry.

[00:40:45]Jay, do you realize that Kevin Westerbeck once sat in that very same chair?

[00:41:12]I need you to look up at this my camera here.

[00:41:16]>> Okay. I need >> Jay Refner is one pathetic looking individual.

[00:41:21]>> You to face that door with your whole body >> in the opposite direction.

[00:41:36]You have any tattoos?

[00:41:38]>> One. Where's it at? On your thigh.

[00:41:42]>> Got one on the thigh.

[00:41:44]>> Okay.

[00:41:56]Can you spell your last name for me, please?

[00:42:00]R E >> R E >> F N E R >> and your first name >> J.

[00:42:09]>> That's your legal name. J A Y and your middle name.

[00:42:11]>> I'm just going to skip over this part here so I don't get in trouble for showing his personal information >> and the first name.

[00:42:19]>> Her name Carol.

[00:42:20]>> Carol.

[00:42:22]>> Your social security number.

[00:42:24]>> Definitely going to skip that.

[00:42:32]I remember those old school monitors, those ones that were just a pain in the ass. They took up so much space on your desk.

[00:42:47]>> What kind of car did you drive for this game?

[00:42:53]>> What year?

[00:42:54]>> 02.

[00:42:56]Yeah, they're talking kind of quiet here. It's hard to hear.

[00:43:00]>> Skip forward a bit more. See if anything else happens.

[00:43:05]>> Do you have any heart or high blood pressure problems?

[00:43:09]>> No.

[00:43:10]>> Are you being treated for mental health problems?

[00:43:14]>> He's being treated for being a huge loser.

[00:43:17]>> Have you ever tried to kill or harm yourself?

[00:43:20]>> No.

[00:43:20]>> Do you feel depressed or suicidal right now?

[00:43:25]>> Are you taking any kind of What do you think?

[00:43:28]>> Skip ahead a bit more.

[00:43:31]>> All right.

[00:43:32]Okay.

[00:43:34]>> See what this guy says.

[00:43:36]>> Change fingerprint. Once I'm done fingerprinting you, will allow you to use the phone. If you want to try to get a hold of a family member, a friend, contact an attorney, you have that option to do that. Okay. Once we're done with all this process. All right. Okay.

[00:43:54]let you use the phone and you'll be in here for a couple hours and we might transport you up to another facility.

[00:44:02]Um, and then once your court date comes, we'll come get you, bring you back, have you.

[00:44:07]>> So, we're going to be here until court.

[00:44:08]>> Yes.

[00:44:14]Yeah, >> which is Monday. I'm sorry. Is that what he said?

[00:44:27]>> Your coat and your shoes. Sit back in that room where I took picture of your leg there. Get your hands taken real fast.

[00:44:45]Start with your right hand. Come over here. Just relax. Okay.

[00:44:48]>> With Kevin Westerback, didn't they do his fingerprints before he put on the the candy cane pajamas?

[00:44:54]>> Let me do all work. Don't press down.

[00:44:56]Just have a relaxed hand.

[00:45:02]Okay. Your left thumb.

[00:45:07]It's a lot better than what it used to be. You don't have to worry about black ink. All four fingers together. Just like that. There we go.

[00:45:16]What you do is just kind of turn your body and just really relax your hand.

[00:45:19]Okay.

[00:45:45]Okay, go ahead and turn your body.

[00:45:48]>> It's funny that word processing. It just reminds me like they're in some sort of slaughter house or something just processing the animals. just sounds sounds so bad.

[00:46:02]>> Information about you, your description, your tattoo, everything about your arrest is paper that statement. If you would sign there for me. The next page is everything you came in with, all your property. I want you to look over that, make sure I got everything. The third page is your medical questions. It's front and back. It's all your answers that you told me, and you're signed into this state.

[00:46:34]That's just the blade.

[00:46:35]>> Yeah, that's that.

[00:46:38]>> That's one. There are some medical questions that I asked you.

[00:46:51]>> Medical. No. Here are the fingerprints that he took. This little box here needs a signature of you.

[00:47:17]>> My attorney is my mother.

[00:47:18]>> Okay.

[00:47:19]>> Oh, I got to dial it to him.

[00:47:21]>> It's going to die now.

[00:47:23]Now, how do you pick up the phone and tell your mother, the prosecutor, that you just got arrested in a sting operation, for trying to meet a young teenage girl for sex? How do you how do you how do you put that into words?

[00:47:35]>> Hey, this is Jay. This is no joke. Um, I'm at the Dart County Sheriff's Office.

[00:47:41]I've been arrested and charged. Um, I don't know what's the charge again. Hold on. Sorry.

[00:47:50]Attempted.

[00:47:52]Hello.

[00:47:54]>> Attempted unlawful sexual conduct with a minor. If she comes down here, can she see me? No.

[00:48:00]>> The attorney?

[00:48:01]>> Yes.

[00:48:02]>> She's my attorney.

[00:48:03]>> The attorney? Yes.

[00:48:04]>> Yes. You can.

[00:48:05]>> His mother, the prosecutor, even represents him at his court appearance.

[00:48:10]>> Can you please the court? My name is Carol Rner. I'm here for the limited purpose of this appearance.

[00:48:15]>> Appreciate the sentence. Does your client understand the nature of the charges?

[00:48:19]>> He does. The the defense is requesting that the court consider releasing the defendant on his own or cognizance. He is not a flight risk.

[00:48:26]>> Well, imagine what Mrs. Ruffner is going through. I'm sure she could have easily have said, "Look, I don't want anything to do with this, but she stood by her son."

[00:48:37]>> Yeah. Wouldn't that be weird just for the people she works with, especially if she's like a prosecutor and then she's like working with people and then it's like, "Oh, by the way, I have to step away to go defend my son from charges."

[00:48:48]It's like uh just seems like she's working for the wrong side. Like obviously like you know I understand that she wants to protect her kid and everyone deserves a defense, but yeah, it just it seems like an odd situation.

[00:49:00]I wonder like how she dealt with it.

[00:49:02]Like was she mad? Did she give him [ __ ] or was she just kind of like, "Hey, I deal with this thing. I deal with this type of thing all day long for my job, so uh nothing out of the ordinary." like I hope she really was disappointed in him >> and and helped him get through the first phase of the judicial process.

[00:49:21]>> Bail at 2500 cashier your property.

[00:49:24]Thank you, Mr. Reer, for your clearance.

[00:49:26]>> All right, and that's it for Jay Refner.

[00:49:28]Thanks for watching everyone and I'll see you next