Dissecting the Most Corrupt Administration in U.S. History | PTFO

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]Welcome to Pablo Toré Finds Out. I am Pablo Tore and today we're going to find out what this sound is.

[00:00:06]>> So go out and buy a Dell. They're great.

[00:00:09]>> Right after this ad.

[00:00:18]Where do we start? Because I've been sending you guys texts this morning and we could start with this ProPublica story that just came out. We could start with the picture of the UFC Stargate being erected on the lawn of the White House.

[00:00:31]>> Talk about Donald Trump trying to ruin the vibes in the city. You we I land in New York. You know, people have a skip in their step. The weather is beautiful.

[00:00:40]Everybody's got Nick's clothes on. You know, people are fist bumping me on the street. Like, nobody can have any joy without me ruining it.

[00:00:49]>> The Knicks game next week? No, I I was invited to the I was going to go on Wednesday, but they closed it out very quickly. They made Jim Dolan's great guy. He's uh as you know, owns and in charge of Madison Square Garden. He's having a good year. Uh boy, what a team.

[00:01:06]They win all their games. They really they have some great players. Uh I think I'll be going to one of the games. I was invited by uh numerous people and Jim and I think I'll be going. It's great great to see it. The election the Knicks have the Knicks have really they've really suffered for years which producers doing right they're doing right now.

[00:01:28]>> I think you guys are wrong on that one.

[00:01:30]You're giving him too much power on this Knicks thing. Trump wants to go to the Knicks game have at it big boy. Who cares? Like there's a lot of things we should go after him for and fact check him on. But if that guy wants to go to the Knicks game, do it.

[00:01:42]>> That's correct. But there to me some people can't resist being like you suck.

[00:01:47]didn't let him.

[00:01:48]>> But no, they should be focusing their anger on Shea Gildas Alexander and how he's pretending to fall.

[00:01:54]>> War criminal.

[00:01:55]>> Yes. That's where all of the focus should be. All the rage should be dialed in. The entire city should be like, "You should >> I don't think they're going to care.

[00:02:05]They're going to be focused on the game." I actually think that the president is going to find himself frustrated because when he thinks he's going to walk into this rocky like, yeah, people are going to be like, "Move out the way. I'm here to see Jaylen Brunson." I think that's going to be his experience. But giving him more power around the should he shouldn't. Who cares? This is about the New York Knicks who haven't been there in 27 years.

[00:02:24]>> This is somebody that's healthy. This is somebody that has process his life in a healthy way. Unlike me, you know, I've got I'm deranged.

[00:02:32]>> He's a boy from Queens. He might actually want to go.

[00:02:34]>> Well, >> I find that very hard to believe.

[00:02:36]>> Okay. You know what? I said it and then I was like, maybe not. Very hard to believe.

[00:02:56]So, the Knicks are donating 750 tickets, I believe, >> to the finals.

[00:03:01]>> To the finals.

[00:03:02]>> God, you hate to hand it to Jim Dolan.

[00:03:06]>> What's a better case for Jim Dolan to sell the Knicks than, "Hey, it's never going to get better. go out in a blaze of charity and goodwill as the city is rioting on your behalf.

[00:03:16]>> Is there an unlimited amount of mega rich New Yorkers who want to buy the Knicks?

[00:03:20]>> I mean, this is this is what I want to discuss. So like but like like if owning if owning a sports team is the ultimate ultimate vanity project for a super wealthy person. Owning the Knicks is like >> it's the number one most valued asset. I would argue >> for sure >> because and by the way the MSG is a sellout regardless whether the Knicks are good.

[00:03:45]>> Mhm.

[00:03:45]>> It's its gate attendance is is always uh an inelastic demand because it's New York City. And now you have the fact that they're actually good.

[00:03:53]>> But even when they're not good, it's super cool.

[00:03:56]>> Yes. But the people who show up at the garden, right, those faces that you see that Stephanie Rule actually recognizes because it's all of these masters of the universe, these captains of industry.

[00:04:06]One of the reason Tim Miller, thank you for being here, by the way.

[00:04:09]>> Good to be here, baby.

[00:04:10]>> Stephanie Rule, >> love being here.

[00:04:13]>> Stephanie knows rich people.

[00:04:15]>> Yeah.

[00:04:16]>> Well, Tim, I know. and it kind of enjoys their company, which is a big difference between me and Stephanie. Uh talking about sports team ownership and being in corporate boxes is the thing that makes me feel the most anti- capitalist. To to this example, my friend has the box at the LSU Tigers game and always invites me. And I'm like, if I'm going to go to Baton Rouge on a Saturday night and have some whiskey and watch a football game, I want to be with the people. I want to be with I want to be among the people. I want somebody to spill their beer on me.

[00:04:45]I want to high-five a child that's up past his bedtime. I want to cuss at the other team and say STGDB. Uh, you know, and I don't want to sit around and like have people asking me like what about the tariffs in a fleece vest?

[00:04:59]>> I don't want to hear about the tariffs in a fleece vest, you know, and like that that is kind of your world though.

[00:05:03]And you're good at navigating it though because they'll bring up the tariffs and then you'll make a little offcolor joke and like you'll have a tariffs take. You you navigate it very well.

[00:05:11]>> Wow. How did that scouting report feel to you? Um, I don't think that's the case. I I don't think I just make it I I don't think I've ever made an offcolor joke. Um, I the funny thing about I would actually say corporate boxes you see when they've built all these new arenas, they're trying to make corporate boxes closer to the people cuz there's nothing worse, right? Like if you think about going to the coolest restaurant out there, but saying we got the private room, it blows because it's like you're at this amazing place with the best energy ever and you're sitting in an insulated box. So, I think you're talking about two different things. The fan experience is less exciting and less fun if you're sitting in an isolated area. But you're also making the point if you're going to a game, if you're going to a concert, you're there to experience that art, that sport, that live event, you sure don't want to talk about ibeta and profit margin.

[00:06:01]>> I don't want to talk about ibeta ever.

[00:06:03]Actually, ever. I hate the word ibeta.

[00:06:05]Is that a word? It's not a word. It's an acronym.

[00:06:07]>> Yes. But the idea that Steph is the type of person who goes to the Milk-In conference in which there are lots of NBA owners and lots of billionaires and there is this conversation around so we are winning right now. We being this non-monolithic class of extraordinarily connected wealthy and informed people in the world of finance.

[00:06:30]I have to say that that way. Finance.

[00:06:32]>> Finance. Yeah. Steph, part of the reason I wanted to have you here with me and Tim, is because the mentality of these folks who are at that conference, this global conference, the people who are in these NBA arenas and elsewhere, how do you describe them to people who are not decades steeped in finance? I think the thing that's amazing right now is the difference and latitude they give the president. And sort of before now, one could easily argue part of what makes America so exceptional is that we respect the rule of law. Is that we have three separate but equal branches of government. And you've got all these business leaders over the last few decades more and more who have spoken out publicly who say, you know, like we're leaders in culture, in business.

[00:07:21]It's our fiduciary to explain the way the world works. And suddenly the cat got their tongue >> because now you've got a president who continues to push boundaries and blow through things. I mean we we do a segment on our show White House for Sale. There's an unlimited amount of content. It's so hard to pick right in this term. We're long past the days of let me tell you the stocks that Paul Pelosi traded yesterday and and let's talk about car, you know, closing the carried interest loophole.

[00:07:52]>> That'd be nice though. We could still do that.

[00:07:54]>> I'd love to talk about all those things and we always have. But but the latitude they're giving this administration and when you talk to people, part of it is they're intoxicated by the access they have. They can call this president. They can call Howard Lutnik and get what they want and get what they need. What's amazing to me is that they think they're going to get some sort of long-term loyalty from this president. He shows it day in and day out. Whatever serves him today. Great. I mean, look at John Cornin. John Cornin. Look at Bill Cassidy sitting there with egg on their face. What killed me two weeks ago was when Bill Cassidy a minute after he loses his primary, he's like, "Oh, by the way, I'm not feeling good. I'm not feeling good about that war in Iran."

[00:08:35]Really, Bill? What changed in the last 48 hours about the situation in Iran other than you losing?

[00:08:41]>> Right? These are senators, United States senators.

[00:08:44]>> A business leader would though they won't make the argument out loud. They would say who do they have to answer to, right? Their fiduciary responsibility.

[00:08:51]They need to make sure their customers are still going, you know, doing business with them, their employees aren't quitting, and their shareholders are happy. So, they would argue that that trifecta is their most important triangle, and it doesn't behoove them to speak out against the president. So cat got my tongue makes sense. But then last week I was in a cross-country flight to California.

[00:09:11]>> I was stuck sitting there watching cable news which is great. We honor cable news. We're on cable news. But like personally I usually don't watch like hours and hours in a row. Right. But not >> you just watch 11 to 12.

[00:09:21]>> Yeah. Just watch 11 to 12 on stuff and then whatever >> to 9 to 11 a.m. Whatever's right before me and the Pablo text he's going to be on but that's usually that's about it.

[00:09:31]Um, and so I'm watching CNBC and and it was just by accident that it was the day that Andrew Wasorin is interviewing Bezos.

[00:09:38]>> Mhm.

[00:09:38]>> And the cat got your tongue. Like I said, I understand if Bezos is just like, you know, it's kind of crazy over there. I've got this I got all these businesses. I've got the new wife. I've got the Venice wedding and like I've got my yacht and I'm just going to focus on that. You know, that couldn't be me really. I I like to I like to yap, but I I would understand that. But he didn't do that. He goes on with Andrew Sorcin and he's like, you know, Trump's really mellowed, I think. And you got to hand it to him. He's more disciplined. He's more disciplined.

[00:10:07]>> I'm comparing him to his first term. And I think he is a a more mature, more disciplined version of himself than he was in his first term.

[00:10:15]>> And you know, so he's again, I've I've worked with all the presidents. I will work with all the presidents, you know, and uh I hope to do that going forward if they'll have me. Uh but it's we we need our business leaders to provide input into the uh the administration regardless of who the president is.

[00:10:37]>> He has a couple good ideas and when he has good ideas you really have to hand it to him. And I'm like what why are you doing that is humiliating.

[00:10:44]>> But but just to just cuz this is the decoding I want to do. In your view, Steph, when Jeff Bezos is saying stuff like that, he is doing it because he is there also transacting.

[00:10:55]>> Or maybe he agrees. Or maybe he really likes Trump.

[00:10:58]>> I'm trying to calibrate my likes Trump because I think he might really like him.

[00:11:02]>> So I would say a lot of them like that they have someone to call. I think a lot of them would say they like that they share an idea and maybe they get something out of it. But I think Jeff Bezos uh is unique in that to me his biggest most important business or gaping hole is Blue Origin. Okay, Blue Origin is, pun intended, light years behind SpaceX, right? This is costing gazillions of dollars. They don't have nearly the amount of government contracts or relationship with the government that SpaceX does. And so he needs to make sure he's in good standing with the president. Right. Days after the Melania documentary debuted, right?

[00:11:43]Brett Ratner produced Amazon paid tens of millions of dollars. Days after who rolls up to Blue Origin headquarters, Pete Hegsth with Jeff Bezos shaking his hand.

[00:11:55]>> Yeah.

[00:11:55]>> Right. Remember, >> and Bezos talked about how that was a good business decision in the same interview. And that wasn't quite right.

[00:12:01]Actually, it did lose 59 million, which might which might be nothing, but that's kind of >> 59 million is chump change. If you in in his mind, right, during Trump's first term, Jeff Bezos was a target of Donald Trump, right? Amazon was a target of Donald Trump. Bezos was a target of Donald Trump. I actually think it's why he continues to own the Washington Post when people are like, "He doesn't want to own the Washington Post. He's not interested." He knows that the Washington Post and the media is so important to Trump. And so to be in good standing with Trump, I would say in his mind, being in in the safe zone with Trump is good for him and good for his business. Now, you might say he's one of the richest men in the world. We could lose our democracy. We could lose our country. Doesn't that trump all of this?

[00:12:48]And that's a totally fair argument to be made. And to me, the other the psychology the thing I'm more interested in because you understand the money. I understand what these guys are motivated by. That's why they're the richest people in history. But you know, these guys are all so sensitive to criticism from everybody besides Trump. And it is so I hate to use the P word for the second time on the podcast. But we can say it again thanks to, you know, Donald Trump winning. U that's what the finance guy said. We can say the rword, we can say. It makes me feel like that they're just like you could tell how sensitive he was to the Washington Post criticism in that interview with Andrew Ross Sorcin. It's like all these media journalists are are making fun of me and saying we're not doing a good job. Like what am I supposed to do? Run a charity?

[00:13:29]>> If I do my job right, >> right, >> the the value to society and civilization from my for-profit companies will be much much larger.

[00:13:44]right than the than the good that I do with my charitable giving.

[00:13:49]>> He got very defensive in his backup.

[00:13:51]Donald Trump spent four years like making fun of how he looked, like giving him a bad nickname, and now he gravels back to him. Like, what's the point of having [ __ ] you money? But the thing that I think is most immediately actionable when it comes to who's even persuadable anymore, what should people be aware of economically in terms of just like the big headlines? It's the fact that we're talking on the same morning, Thursday, May 28th, when ProPublica releases this story. Quote, "The White House intervened to get a $620 million deal for a company tied to Donald Trump Jr." And this is where I just read some ProPublica. When the Pentagon announced a $620 million loan last year to a small North Carolina startup linked to Donald Trump Jr., defense officials and the company tried to tamp down suspicions of cronyism. The president's oldest son said through a spokesperson that he wasn't involved. The Pentagon said Trump Jr. played no role in the record setting deal. The startup's founder told reporters that his company, Vulcan Elements, received no political favoritism. But interviews and Defense Department records reviewed by ProPublica show that the request to loan hundreds of millions of dollars to the firm linked to Trump Jr. was made by Peter Navaro, a White House adviser to President Donald Trump and a friend of Trump Juniors. And the reason all of this is particularly, I would say, relevant to what the public attention might be trained on is that there have been lots of stories about corruption and quit proquoing and transactionality.

[00:15:19]But this particular story is apparently the first time that the awarding of a contract from a federal agency has been directly linked to White House intervention. People from the White House, apparently, according to sources in the story, said quote, "We have to get this done." And Peter Navaro, for those not familiar, is also a guy who appeared on Don Jr.'s show on Rumble to say this.

[00:15:46]>> Your father has done more and I guess it's uh nine months now than uh presidents do in two terms. Well, Peter, as always, uh, thank you very much for what you're doing in there. Thank you for what you've, you know, done to yourself and to your family, standing up for us. Guys, make sure to check out I Went to Prison so you won't have to by senior counsel for trade, Peter Navaro.

[00:16:13]Uh, just a great friend, a great patriot, great American. Uh, Peter, thanks very much. I look forward to seeing you again soon, buddy.

[00:16:20]>> Thanks, my brother, for for being there uh in in my hardest uh hardest of times.

[00:16:25]you know, when my back was against the wall. Uh, you you had my back, brother.

[00:16:29]And >> it's my honor, my friend. Thank you.

[00:16:32]>> But Peter Navaro, just for those who are unfamiliar with his work, how should we remind people who this guy is?

[00:16:39]>> So, I'm going to quote without naming the person's name, a member of Trump's first term, who said, "At best, >> Peter Navaro is a wackadoo and a cook."

[00:16:50]Peter Navaro was discovered by Jared Kushner during Trump's first term because he did a Google or an Amazon search looking for someone anyone out there whose views on trade and tariffs were in line with Donald Trump's and after digging and climbing and going through and around >> like 1997 or something where in the book he quotes fake economists who are named like if you take the name Peter Navaro and mix up the letters. That's the names of the people who he had fake quotes in the book.

[00:17:27]>> Ron Vara.

[00:17:28]>> There you go. Ron Vara. Ron Vara. Okay.

[00:17:31]That >> Navaro. Ronvara.

[00:17:33]>> So, so they then >> into the first Trump administration. And let me be clear, he's an economist.

[00:17:41]>> Did he see Did you see him work with Steve Minutuchin? Steve Minutuchin said absolutely not. Did you see him work with Gary Conn? Nope. He did not. They had to relegate him to go work in the commerce department under Wilbur Ross.

[00:17:54]And Wilbur may or may not have known that Peter Navaro was even there. The problem isn't necessarily in many of these cases the government getting involved in businesses. And in some cases it is. The problem is bet your bottom dollar that you check and somehow the Trump family or close associates are making money hand over fist in it.

[00:18:13]>> Yeah. And and I've heard from people in business world who who just are like, you know, it we decided to make Don Jr.

[00:18:20]a strategic adviser because we figured like that could help us get a government contract. Like this is happening.

[00:18:26]>> Don Jr. is an adviser to both Kelshi and Poly Market. Like does anyone realize how and it was funny because I >> and the administration's trying to interfere. Minnesota is trying to to ban prediction markets in their state. Back when I was a Republican, that's how things were as laboratories of democracy. If red states wanted to do one thing, blue states wanted to do another, that was, you know, pretty essential to what the worldview was. And now the administration is trying to intervene to prevent Minnesota from passing a law for their state. Well, I wonder why. Maybe it's because the president's son is is >> when I was at NBA All-Star weekend, they had a tech conference the the day leading into the weekend and I interviewed Khi, Poly Market, FanDuel, DraftKings uh on stage. And before I c I can't remember whether it was Poly Market or Koshi, but it was someone on their team and I brought up I'm like it was offstage but I brought up like so you know Don Jr. advising both your companies and the person was like oh he didn't invest much money. I'm like, "No, Sherlock. I didn't think he wrote you guys a big fat check." Like, no one thought that. Whatever you've gi whatever equity stake you've given him, whatever advisory role, I don't think he's had to to reach into his pocket one single day. What you guys are doing is paying him is giving him some upside.

[00:19:44]So, you get no regulation and a clear path to build your mega business, which is exactly what's happening. Can we add one more story that was from last night that I have to get off my chest me and stuff we're talking about on the way in.

[00:19:54]As you follow the account unusual whales.

[00:19:56]>> I do. Unusual Wales is, you know, not, you know, I don't know if they have the same vetting process that ProPublica does, but uh they've done some good analysis and we're kind of like >> a key account in like prompting like the Pelosi tracker and this idea that too many, you know, um members of Congress are investing, >> which is true sides of that. Yeah, but the story about Trump's investing that that came out. Um, my colleague Joe Perticone like you know crunched the numbers on this. Trump has invested more money this year in the stock market than all members of the House and Senate did combined last year in 12 months, right?

[00:20:33]We're this was just for the first quarter. So in the first quarter of this year, Trump's invested more than the entire Congress did last year. So if you're concerned about Congress investing in the stock market and the corruption, you would think you would be concerned about Donald Trump. Here's this one from last night. Dell and and you might know that Michael Dell himself um put money into what is it? The Trump >> the baby bonds.

[00:20:53]>> The baby bonds. Yeah, the Trump bonds, you know. So, he put his own money into something that Trump got to put his name on.

[00:20:58]>> A huge amount of money that that can serve a huge port that would be great for lots of people.

[00:21:03]>> So, these are the Trump accounts in which he's going to give 25 million eligible children apparently.

[00:21:08]>> But again, in a free country, you know, you would call them baby bonds. You'd call them something else. You wouldn't name them after dear leader. They're not Kim Jong-un bonds or >> And let me tell you, so when I ask people like in the investment community about this, they all roll their eyes.

[00:21:20]They're like, "Ah, you got to play ball.

[00:21:22]It is what it is."

[00:21:23]>> But really, we've we've been, it's the 250th year of the country. We've never done this before. Business leaders have been managed to succeed and make money and have good EBITDA without putting the president's name and face on everything that they did throughout all of history.

[00:21:36]So, that's actually not true. And here's the Dell story. Dell just won a 5-year $9.7 billion Pentagon software agreement for the US military. Now, I don't know about you guys, maybe the Dell is the best company for that. I haven't used any Dell products in quite a while now.

[00:21:50]I have to imagine there are probably other competitors in the space. Um, before they got that $9.7 billion contract, Trump bought Dell multiple times since February 10th for more than 5 million. So Trump has put more than 5 million in Dell right before they got the contract. And in case you're thinking, ah, you know, maybe that's a coincidence. Maybe, you know, Trump's financial advisor is focused on that at the blind trust. On May 8th, right before the contract uh was received, Trump said, >> "So go out and buy a Dell. They're great, >> dude. You're getting a Dell."

[00:22:27]>> Not the singer Dell. The stock >> a Dell. And it's like the unusual Rails writes unusual. I think it's a little more than unusual. This is >> and it's it's right there. It's text, >> but to now complete the circle, right?

[00:22:39]So, this deal with the rare earths Vulcan, which is based in North Carolina, estimates of its valuation grew 10fold after the deal was announced and Trump Jr., Don Jr.'s venture capital firm, took a stake of undisclosed size in Vulcan about 3 months before the Pentagon announced the deal.

[00:22:58]>> So, this is not >> He just got his room upgraded on his honeymoon. He just went up to the presidential suite after that.

[00:23:04]>> But but my point being that this is not merely uh do this for my friend. It's like they're actively profiting in ways that anybody who wants to say and I I get the instinct. All these MS now people crying wolf is just sort of like the wolf is on the table right now and it's just like showing you its [ __ ] portfolio and it's like I don't know.

[00:23:27]What are we waiting for?

[00:23:28]>> And honestly like think about all the coverage policy got. I I just I was looking at the Dell thing last night and I was like media criticism gets kind of tired at this point but just you know if if this was Mitt Romney or if this was like you know Nancy Pelosi it really would be leading the nightly news type thing you'd be leading David Mure be the front page of the newspaper there'd be investigators there'd be follow-ups like wait a minute how did Dell get the contract like why did you say invest in them and it's like Trump has now created this bubble where it seems like he's very public and it seems like he's doing a lot of media stuff but he has all of these like Newsmax and you know Mike Lindell TV people ask him questions so he doesn't get questions from real reporters there's a lot of other news crazyit happening like you know the war in Iran etc >> or him going to the NBA finals >> it's hard to decide which corruption to pick >> the idea though that people don't know or don't care I don't think is true I think the investment community is sort of like they're making so much money and it's working out so well they're just like if you can't beat them join them and and they're the ones who are panicked They're like, "Ugh, there are these crazies like Mom Dami who's coming for us, blah, blah, blah." I would argue, no, it's the mega wealthy getting mega wealthier, right? If you take the Forbes 200 at the end of the the Biden administration, and obviously they were really rich. They were on the Forbes 200 and look at their net worth now, it has exploded.

[00:24:51]That's not the case for most other people. And so what's amazing to me is they kind of look at this anti- capitalism sentiment like these people are crazy. Like the anti- capitalist the the eat the rich sentiment is so real and visceral in this country, right?

[00:25:08]Like I lived in New York and I worked on Wall Street during the the Occupy Wall Street. This is that tenfold. And I think what they don't realize is >> as much as you like making all this money during the Trump administration, the more this mega grift is happening, the more the other side is going to come for capital. Can >> I just rant about this for a second? Go ahead.

[00:25:27]>> I want to say one thing before Tim rants, which is the notion that they're coming for capitalism. The people truly dismantling capitalism. Are these people right here? This is the point.

[00:25:40]Capitalism requires competition and the rule of law as a set of regulatory governance practices. And when the people are like this is not the free market. It's not capitalism. This is like uh classic corrupt autocrat.

[00:25:57]>> Yeah.

[00:25:58]>> And when people come for capitalism, it's because you people did not actually defend it. They're turning me into this in a nutshell, right? Like I love free markets. I'm as pro capitalism as they come. What's actually transpiring isn't that.

[00:26:27]I think the point is, yes, there is and has been corruption in government under Joe Biden, under every presidency, >> but right now we're talking about true tonnage in a way that is unprecedented.

[00:26:41]It's like people don't know what a billion is relative to a million. Even that very basic math question is like hard to fully grasp. And in the same way, we're looking at this again, this giant wolf on the table who is [ __ ] stealing all this money allegedly and laughing as everybody is just >> not only complicit but also profiting.

[00:27:03]>> Okay. So then here's the question. Tell me the name of the Democrat who would like to be in leadership or who is running for office, who is writing an op-ed or who is coming on television and saying this is what's happening. It's deeply unethical. It's anti-democratic. It is currently legal. Here's what I am going to do. Here's what the Democratic Party is going to do if you vote for us in the midterms and we regain control. Tell me the name of the Democrat who's laid that out for us.

[00:27:35]>> I'm not just really quick. I'm not sure it's all legal. I mean, some of this is for >> I'm even giving them the benefit of the doubt. Right. And saying, right, I'm trying to be like as generous as I am in this, right?

[00:27:43]>> I'm just saying it isn't it isn't actually legal for the UAE to bribe the president.

[00:27:47]>> So, let's go even further. Let's say, right, fine. Then let's say this is illegal and come November, if you vote for me, this is what we're going to do.

[00:27:56]>> Look, this is going to be the job of the oversight committee. I Robert Garcia was really good on Epstein. Like this going to be his job in the House. Who is the bigname Democrat that has like taken this on like there isn't one and they should and I don't understand why. And I think it's really their job in 2027.

[00:28:10]>> How to persuade is the question. How do you message this?

[00:28:14]>> They need to say by the way, he's not going to be in charge forever. And if you're one of these rare earth companies or if you're Dell and you think that you're gonna have a government contract in 2029, well, you've got to come turn over all of your documents right now.

[00:28:27]And that's their job in 202.

[00:28:28]>> JP Morgan was one of the only massive companies that didn't write a big check for the ballroom. And Jaimeie Diamond said publicly on the record, "I'm not going to write a check for the ballroom because when there's a new administration, they will come for me because this is I I don't know if he said bribery, but he said something along the lines of this will not pass the sniff test. I don't want to touch it. Life is long. This person won't be president forever." Moments after he said that is probably when Trump said, "I'm suing you." Well, but this is the whole thing has like a spirit Halloween after October 31st kind of vibe. It's like everyone knows that this is the last days. It kind of feels that way and those who are not acting as such are trying to get all these discounts on these costumes that they may never wear again. This is the thing though. It's like who is actually playing the longer game and who is merely taking the cash also available on this table.

[00:29:27]>> Yeah.

[00:29:27]>> And so we're left at this moment and we don't even have time to really get into this, but we're left with a vacuum of moral, let alone legal and ethical leadership. And so it turns out that the literal pope ends up being this person that everyone's like, is the pope now a truly radical figure because he's talking about in some way regulating the masters of the universe? And it's like how refreshing that there is someone who is not bought and sold by this administration who is not sensitive to the same pressures as everyone else in this country whether they try to figure out okay how do I how do I increase my growth pop is not radical this whole idea that he's being painted as such is nonsensical and so I think when people try to make that argument you just have to take them back to facts and that's The thing with quote unquote going after Trump, the truth isn't bias. It's just the truth. Some people just don't want to hear it. And so, as it relates to what the Pope is trying to do, the Pope is trying to raise our level of decency, right? The Pope devoted his adult life, most of his adult life to to serving the poor in Latin America, this boy from Chicago. And I I just think we have to keep going back to just covering the facts and the truth because it's all right there. And what we just need to do is show it to the American people. And what the Democrats need to do is not just say Trump sucks. They need to say here's the path forward and here's what we're going to offer.

[00:31:06]>> I love that the libs are coming home to God. We could maybe use a good and Joe Biden was Catholic but kind of talked about it more early in his earlier in his career. The Dems could use a 2028 person that talks a little bit about God. Um >> the pope doesn't talk about God that much. What the Pope talks about is decency and living in service of others.

[00:31:23]>> The interesting thing about the pope and I think why is resonating um Pablo is like in part you're because of this moral vacuum of leadership. Like we're going through this period where everybody feels like screw it. Like why do I have to, you know, care about ethics? Like this, you know, the the the masters of the universe, the big tech CEOs, the president of the United States, like all get away with whatever they want. Like maybe that should be my model. like the pope is offering this counter model. The other thing that the pope is doing is at some ways he like quasi codes liberal, but he's like he's still the pope, right? He's still pro-life, you know? I mean, yeah. He still, you know, has all these values that are that are small C conservative, right? Um whether it be family values or traditional values or eternal, you know, kind of going back through history values.

[00:32:10]>> He's literally the head of the Catholic Church.

[00:32:12]>> He's not jumping on fads, right?

[00:32:14]That's the that's the glory of it is that it doesn't need to be coded left.

[00:32:17]>> Yeah. gives him like I do think that credibility that that we have we have flattened everything particularly in the last 10 years into like oh you're a MAGA or you're an anti-magga and it's like you you can dismiss the the comments of somebody that is in the other tribe even if they're making sense as part of this like neverending you know online political forever war that we have and like he's not part of it right he levitates above it >> largely the Magnifica humanitas which is the encyclical. Um, it's about AI and that's incredibly important and its own of course forever series. But the thing that I I loved that Pope Leo the 14th wrote was quote, >> "Did you read all 22,000 words or did you have chat GPT?"

[00:33:04]>> I certainly did not have Chat GPT summarize it. I did the thing I did while going to Catholic school growing up, which is I selectively skimmed. Um, but this is the part that I wrote a whole essay on the one part that you just And and here is the part. The value of persons however does not depend on what they achieve or produce. There are rights that apply to everyone simply by virtue of being human. The various it goes on to write the various kinds of job and security, fragmented career paths and automation must not be evaluated solely in terms of efficiency but in relation to the dignity of the worker, the right to sufficient remuneration and the genuine possibility of participating in society. End quote.

[00:33:43]which in a normal year, normal administration kind of reads, maybe cliche, but in this context, even in what we just spent all this time talking about, talking not about profit and growth and the Green Arrow feels relatively radical and like the [ __ ] pope like we don't need, I would say for this to be a Democrat-owned issue. My hope is that this is maybe the most basic test that we are taking and also failing because it turns out the pope is he's seizing on ground that people are >> but then let decency be the non-partisan issue that that that actually helps political leaders or people running for office or business leaders rise above this >> and it's available for them to take is my point. it this this territory, Tim, is basically open for them >> and they can do it by e even if they've made mistakes before. My as a as a as a fallen person myself, as a sinner, here's my favorite part.

[00:34:49]>> Someone going to hell. What is >> my favorite part sinner today, you don't have to be a sinner tomorrow. That's right. And Catholics like Pablo and I, here's the best thing.

[00:34:57]>> All cradle Catholics, all cradle Catholics. Um, when was are were you going to church on Sunday, though? We'll talk about it after. For an algorithm, an error is a flaw to be corrected. For a person, however, an error can be a catalyst for profound change. A person's future is not calculable, but depends on one's freedom, elevated by the inexhaustible grace of God and on the relationships cultivated. I love that.

[00:35:18]>> We can all grow.

[00:35:33]My favorite clip maybe of the last year, speaking of Christ and its opposite, >> was it on the Bullwark podcast >> and his opposite? It was actually in an interview with uh noted conservative Ross >> Douet. And this was uh Peter Teal, >> one of these masters of the universe who I just want to remind you did say this.

[00:35:55]>> I guess where I end up is I still think we should be trying AI and that the alternative is just total stagnation. So yeah, there's sort of all sorts of interesting things going to happen with.

[00:36:07]Maybe drones in a military context are combined with AI and okay, this is kind of scary or dangerous or dystopian or it's going to change things. But if if you don't if you don't have AI, wow, there's just nothing going on. AI is better. It's better than the alternative. And the alternative is nothing at all because the stag look here's one place where the stagnationist arguments are still reinforced. The fact that we're only talking about AI, I feel is always an implicit acknowledgement that but for AI, we are like in almost total stagnation. You're deeply invested in Palanteer, in military technology, in technologies of surveillance, in technologies of warfare and so on, right? And it just seems to me that when you tell me a story >> about the Antichrist coming to power and using the fear of technological change to sort of impose order on the world, I feel like that Antichrist would be maybe be using the tools >> that you that you were that you were building, right? Like wouldn't the Antichrist be like, great, you know, we're not going to have any more technological progress, but I really like what Palanteer has done so far. You would prefer the human race to endure, right?

[00:37:24]>> Uh, >> you're hesitating.

[00:37:26]>> Well, I Yes.

[00:37:27]>> I don't know. I I would >> I would um >> This is a long hesitation. So many long hesitation.

[00:37:35]>> There's so many questions and >> should the human race survive?

[00:37:39]>> I mean, this whole thing goes on like that for a while.

[00:37:43]>> I am the person who is warning you about the antichrist. I am also the person who is bringing you artificial intelligence.

[00:37:50]I'm also the person refusing to be regulated. I am also the person who now gets to set the standard on what is godly enough. I mean, this is a symptomatic notion that Peter Teal is expressing, but he is one of many people.

[00:38:05]>> Yeah.

[00:38:06]>> Who's profiting while also saying crazy.

[00:38:09]At least the Russian oligarchs just took all of that money and bought really, really, really big boats and the hottest women ever to go on those boats. At least that's all they did. Our oligarchs are saying, "We're going to run so much more than that." That's where I'm like, "Wait, what? What do you want to get involved in? I would be okay if it was just a whole lot of money and you were spending it on a boat somewhere in the Mediterranean, but this this is some scary stuff." I I suppose that uh we should probably close here by referring to the t-shirt that does bring all these topics >> I am not the antichrist t-shirt which is raising a lot of questions >> that already answered by the shirt.

[00:38:49]>> It's it's it's one of the great uh speaking of defying uh regulation. One of the great unlicensed t-shirts that I've seen.

[00:38:56]>> The Knicks made the finals on the day the Pope declared a holy war on AI.

[00:39:00]Monday, May 25th, 2026.

[00:39:02]>> Did someone actually make that t-shirt?

[00:39:04]There's the human hand that I'm seeing in my version of it, which uh I guess can be faked quite easily at this point.

[00:39:11]>> It depends on how many fingers.

[00:39:21]Pablo Finds Out is produced by Walter Aaroma, Maxwell Carney, Ryan Cortez, Juan Gindo, Patrick Kim, Neilie Lman, Rob McCrae, Matt Sullivan, Claire Taylor, and Chris Tumanelloo. Studio Engineering by RG Systems. Sound design by Andrew Bersick. Digital strategy by Bailey Carlin and Andrew Northern. Theme song as always by John Bravo.

[00:39:43]And we'll talk to you next time.