Ep 12 Finding Your Voice after Purity Culture with Crystal

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-23

[00:00:03]Hi, Crystal.

[00:00:04]>> Hey, Shana.

[00:00:06]>> Hey. Um, welcome everyone to Purity Culture. Uh, it's been a little while since I've recorded an episode, but I am excited to have this conversation with Crystal today. Um, I am going to let her introduce herself, but we are going to be we're going to be talking about her journey uh through leaving the 2x2 church and purity culture and finding her own voice and talking about her work with women that she's doing. Um, so why don't you just get us started, Crystal?

[00:00:35]I would love to hear a little bit more of your story and your connection to the 2 by two church and um kind of where you are now.

[00:00:43]>> Sure. Well, I was born and raised. I'm a Baldwin baby. So, I uh was moved to Michigan from Oregon at 3 days old. And um two weeks before my first birthday, the adopted father passed away. So, it was just my mom and my sister and I.

[00:01:00]Yeah. He had had >> he had um terminal cancer when they made the placement. So, >> I often say that I was raised by the church because I really was. I in every way, shape, and form spent most of my weekends anytime and even a lot of time when things got bad at home.

[00:01:19]>> I my elders or any one of the elders in the area would take me and I just kind of grew up as a child of the church.

[00:01:28]>> And I often refer to myself as that because I was raised by the church. Um I don't know what would have happened to me if I hadn't had the church. So, >> um, social services was called by my school when I was 14 and I ended up going into foster care >> and, um, the county wanted me to go two fields over so that I wouldn't be in union meeting with her. They completely terminated her parental rights in less than two months. Wow. So, >> it was a pretty intense abuse situation.

[00:01:59]>> Um, she has a biological daughter that I'm very close to now. Um, and I stayed in touch with my mom all those years and >> till her dying breath. So, >> um, that is a whole another story. We can talk about a different day. But, um, >> anyway, uh, so yeah, it was a, uh, so anyway, I was adopted again. I ended up being adopted again by another family.

[00:02:22]And then when I was 18, I graduated early from high school. And that kind of set the tone. I was been an overachiever my whole life. And >> was this family um that you were adopted into as a teenager? Were they in the church as well?

[00:02:35]>> Yes. So >> the the church worked. Here's what I will say about everybody that protected me growing up 0 to 14. No one called social services on my mom. But when the school called social services on my mom, they all told the truth. Not any >> no one. which is why things ended for her very quickly.

[00:03:00]>> Okay.

[00:03:00]>> Um I had told the truth and we're going to talk a lot about honesty today because that's the first step to >> getting real. Um but yeah, so I got adopted. So then the workers made an arrangement for me to go to a secondary home.

[00:03:17]>> Okay.

[00:03:18]>> And um I was with them from uh my 15th birthday until my 18th birthday. and they ended up adopting me into their family when I was 16. So, >> okay. Wow.

[00:03:30]>> Um, then I found my birth parents through Dr. Baldwin in 1988. So, when I was 18 years old, um, I had written him several times asking him and he was no, no, no. So, I said, well, I will be at the Sageno convention and you can tell me no to my face. So, another precursor to my bulldogedness. Um, so that kind of is was the start of my life. Um it was not an easy start, but I really um you know have been a survivor in many many ways. But I also have always felt my entire life like God had me in the palm of his hand. I've never >> um I I've always had a knowing of that.

[00:04:10]I I don't really know how to describe it exactly, but >> um >> when I met my biological family, my uncle was a worker. I had two an aunt and uncle in the work. And um my uncle was a lot like I am. We had a and we were very close. He's the first one I met in the whole family >> and our hearts are like very aligned and we were close until his dying breath um in early 2000s. So >> Wow.

[00:04:38]>> Yeah.

[00:04:40]>> Yeah.

[00:04:40]>> So you went and met your birth family.

[00:04:42]>> I did.

[00:04:43]>> Yeah.

[00:04:44]>> Yes.

[00:04:45]>> And were you still in the church at that point?

[00:04:47]>> Yes. And still very much are. So, um, I'll talk about that a little bit.

[00:04:52]>> Okay.

[00:04:52]>> Um, yes, my birth father's family, not at all. My birth mother's family, a royal family.

[00:05:01]>> Okay.

[00:05:02]>> Um, and so for me, um, in my experience, I would say that the shift for me happened in that moment about the 2 by twos when I knew for sure that it was not of God because the rules changed for me overnight. When I became a stide off, I was no longer a redis and and my life was completely different.

[00:05:29]>> I in what ways?

[00:05:31]>> I had so much more privilege. I had I could do anything. I I really didn't have rules >> really. And this is with your birth family.

[00:05:41]>> Yes.

[00:05:42]>> Oh, interesting.

[00:05:44]>> But I also, you know, was following the 2 by two way. So I was in the process of getting married. I married at 19. I married an outsider hoping. So that all um was very very overwhelming for me. I mean I never dreamt in 100 million years. My mom is the second oldest of eight kids in the Style family and my father is the oldest of eight kids on the Styles family. So I carry my father's name.

[00:06:07]>> Okay.

[00:06:08]>> Um because I did go back to court in 20 in 1997 and had my original birth certificate reinstated. Um, so I'm now legally the child of both of my biological parents. But, um, >> anyway, that was my growing up. And so I left twice in that window of time, like after 18, I left twice before I left for the third and final time >> in uh, August of 2023. So, um, >> yeah. Wow. That is so much to go through in such a short amount of time between, >> you know, jumping between a few different families and getting married and moving across the country. Like, >> well, the other thing we did was adopted a baby, a one-year-old.

[00:06:52]>> Oh my goodness.

[00:06:55]>> Yeah. She was born when I was 20. I we adopted her when I was 21 years old. I had no business adopting a child, especially one that had a really rough start.

[00:07:05]>> Okay. Um but she looks a lot like I do and um she's it was through the church as well.

[00:07:14]So her >> okay >> biological grandmother was raised in the church >> and um a lot of people that were around the baby that's now my little girl that's 35 years old almost 36 um was they I she reminded them a lot of me when I was a baby and so that's how the connection was made. So we took her. It was literally like a one week later we took her because I wasn't based on my situation. I wasn't going to say no to a baby that needed a place to go, you know. So when we took her, we didn't know if it was going to be temporary or forever or anything like that. It was just u >> uh she needed a place to go right away.

[00:07:54]And so we picked her up >> and um she's still my daughter, but we raised her in an open adoption. So she's known her birth mother her whole life.

[00:08:04]and I'm still we're very much in touch and >> we all get together and um when she has been raised >> very much knowing her family as well. So >> is that something that you knew like were intentional about from the start because of your own experience?

[00:08:18]>> Yes.

[00:08:18]>> Yeah. Mhm.

[00:08:20]>> Yeah. I never wanted her to wonder. And you know, for me growing up, it was also a lot of like where did you get your dimples and where did you get your blonde hair? And you know, I had so I I've been um if you know the family that I came from, I will tell you that both sides of my biological family have very striking uh physical features like >> Okay.

[00:08:40]>> You know what I mean? I don't know how to describe it exactly, but you know them when you see them. I mean, they're just >> they're like >> Yeah.

[00:08:48]>> Yeah. Um, and I look a lot like my mom and a lot like my dad. So, um, but yeah, so I became very very close with all of them.

[00:08:58]>> Um, and then my mom that raised me passed away, um, in 2010.

[00:09:04]>> Okay.

[00:09:05]>> And so I was close with her until till the very end.

[00:09:10]>> Yeah.

[00:09:11]>> So yeah. What was that like for you growing up as a girl? You know, we've tal talking about purity culture and kind of how you felt as a girl and then as a young woman. What was that like?

[00:09:20]>> Yeah. For me as a girl, I you know, because I didn't have a dad. I was the handy one in the family. And it comes find that come to find out my uh grandparents, my grandmother was very well known for her handiness. And I got that like I am great with a hammer and a screw gun and anything. Like I love to build things. I love to weld. I mean I aming >> those are my that's what I love to do.

[00:09:43]And so I I did all that stuff growing up, you know, we had to do all of our own yard work and housework. And if anything needed fixed, we didn't have any money. We had to fix it.

[00:09:51]>> And I was just that person, you know, in our family. And um >> we lived close to my grandmother and my aunt on my dad's side. Um my adoptive parents, first adoptive parents. And so >> um yeah, I I was just kind of a tomboy in that way. You know, I was outside all the time. And um I wasn't a girly girl at all.

[00:10:14]>> Did you feel any like um pressure from the church that way to be more girly or were you did you feel pretty comfortable?

[00:10:22]>> Oh, I was told multiple times I got in trouble all the time because I wore pants under my skirts and I mean I've been a rebel my whole life. I you know this is not new information to anybody that's known me my entire life. I've always challenged the system, which is partly why my mom, you know, I mean, back in the day, my mom was 44 years old when I was placed with her. And she was, her parents were very old when they had her as well. And so, when you take the culture, talk about purity culture of how you parent.

[00:10:54]>> Yeah.

[00:10:54]>> Um, I was really raised by someone two to three generations older because of the way she was raised. And um so yeah, I literally like she did everything to beat the devil out of me. That is literally what happened. She was just trying.

[00:11:10]>> She thought that was what she was supposed to do from the church. She was raised to believe that I needed to submit. Well, that was never going to happen.

[00:11:19]>> So the more she beat me, the worse I got. I just didn't, you know, it was a horrible cycle of the two of us >> uh really just in conflict a lot.

[00:11:30]Yeah.

[00:11:31]>> And I >> you were connected to yourself like your voice.

[00:11:35]>> I always Yeah, >> I was I when I say I feel like I've always been in the palm of God's hand.

[00:11:41]Like I've always had a spiritled life.

[00:11:45]>> Something has always held me. And I don't know how to describe that. M >> um but it's always been a knowing that I had a purpose and that like you cannot and will not no one will get in the way of that whatever that was.

[00:12:02]>> Wow.

[00:12:02]>> Um and I don't really Yeah, it it's been a >> but I've been that way my whole life and then I just you know when I left finally for the third time >> and I of course got rebaptized and all that.

[00:12:15]>> Okay. How old were you when you finally left for the for the last time?

[00:12:18]>> 23.

[00:12:19]>> 23. Okay. I guess you were still pretty young.

[00:12:22]>> Oh, yeah. I was 23. I had a three-year-old. I'd been married for 5 years.

[00:12:26]>> And I left the church on the same day that I left my husband. So, >> oh my goodness.

[00:12:33]>> Yep.

[00:12:34]>> That is a lot. Again, >> I said I was an overachiever and I wasn't kidding.

[00:12:40]>> What was that like for you?

[00:12:42]>> Ridiculous. Uh, horrible. Horrible.

[00:12:45]because I had a little girl and I underestimated what I was successful in my life but I underestimated how badly I would be shunned.

[00:13:00]>> I mean I was done. I was cut off and not just >> wow.

[00:13:04]>> And the letter started pouring in from all over the world because of my family connections, you know, that I was not only dooming myself to hell, but that I was dooming my daughter to hell. And I mean, it was >> horrible judgment. And I had, you know, in that window of time, I'm not going to lie, I did try to take my life when I was 19.

[00:13:27]>> I was so overwhelmed, Shana. I and I was lost. And I had been sexually abused by my second adoptive father.

[00:13:37]>> Oh, I'm sorry. Wow.

[00:13:39]>> From two weeks after I moved into their home.

[00:13:43]>> And um one thing I will say is that my uncle lol, who I'm a lot alike, >> um as soon as he found out >> early, I mean like as soon as he found out that was fixed. So, I have to say >> even though he was on the West Coast family, he got that fixed. So, they lost meaning in their home and all of that happened. Um, >> so he listened to you.

[00:14:08]>> Oh, he he believed me 100%.

[00:14:11]>> Wow.

[00:14:12]>> Yeah. And he's the one that wrote me. I talk a lot about the the ticket to heaven that I carried in my purse because when I left in 93, I of course back then we wrote letters back and forth >> and I wrote him a letter and I asked him if he thought I was going to hell because I had gotten a letter from my mom saying, you know, it was a true shame she was going to be in heaven with my abuser. And >> yeah, >> um so he wrote me back this letter and he said, "Absolutely not." M >> no, you're not going to hell. God knows your heart. No one has ever walked a day in your shoes. I mean, I still have it.

[00:14:52]>> Um, and I carried that in my wallet cuz I thought if I ever got an accident, I would need a ticket to heaven because he was a worker, you know.

[00:14:58]>> So, I still had that mentality for a long, long time. And, um, as much as I would like to say I didn't, I definitely did or I would not have kept that in my wallet.

[00:15:08]>> Yeah. Yeah. Wow.

[00:15:10]>> And it was just, you know, so I had him and I was very lucky in that way.

[00:15:16]>> I We had a very deep deep knowing about one another and he never judged me at all. Never.

[00:15:24]>> That's amazing. I'm so glad you had him.

[00:15:26]>> Oh, he made everything right. I mean, I got redemption in my abuse. I got uh redemption in my salvation. Like I got all the things that people need.

[00:15:39]>> Yeah.

[00:15:39]>> That most people don't ever get. I got those from him right out of the gate.

[00:15:45]>> Wow.

[00:15:46]>> And a lot of love and support.

[00:15:48]>> Just one person being there can make all the difference. Right.

[00:15:50]>> Totally. That is absolutely one person can change everything.

[00:15:55]>> Wow.

[00:15:56]>> And you know in his case he had a lot of power and uh >> and he used it wisely.

[00:16:02]>> Wow.

[00:16:02]>> And Yeah.

[00:16:05]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:05]>> And he spoke about me all the time. So >> till he couldn't anymore. So, but I'm glad he's not here to see this because, >> you know, um I don't I don't know what he would have done, but I do feel often like >> he is uh rooting for me. I'm rooting not me rooting for love and for God's >> true salvation.

[00:16:30]>> You know what? I don't know how to say that exactly.

[00:16:32]>> Yeah. Rooting for love. I think that's Yeah, >> he's rooting for >> listening to the people that need help support, right? He did that >> 100%.

[00:16:39]>> Yep.

[00:16:40]>> Guaranteed.

[00:16:41]>> What was that like for you then? Um you and your daughter as you left and you were trying to figure out life and become who you were meant to be outside the church. What was that like?

[00:16:53]>> Well, I will say that um reality set in really really quickly.

[00:17:01]Um, luckily I was pretty successful in my life very young and I had um I had the means to deal with what I had to deal with. Um, but it was not easy and I so I I literally lost everyone and everything.

[00:17:19]I mean, I I had no support at all.

[00:17:23]>> And um so I just made friends in a community outside. And I will tell you from that day forward, like that day was a defining moment in my life.

[00:17:34]>> Um and from that day forward, I just have always been super involved in my community. I've always been on a lot of boards and involved in my community. And you know, I've done foster care. I've done all kinds of stuff >> to support children and community. So, that really set kind of the trajectory of that for me in my life.

[00:17:53]>> I've raised a lot of children um since then and um just loved them because I think love wins, you know.

[00:18:02]>> Yeah.

[00:18:02]>> And that does being seen and being acknowledged as a human like that goes a long way. But I think I took modeling what wasn't done for me.

[00:18:14]>> Mhm.

[00:18:14]>> But I did also have my birth father's family. So, um, they rallied around me pretty tightly. Um, >> Okay. Even after you left the church.

[00:18:23]>> Well, yeah. Because they didn't ever profess.

[00:18:25]>> So, here's the here's the crazy part.

[00:18:28]>> Not only did they not profess, >> they grew up my grandmothers were best friends.

[00:18:35]>> Interesting.

[00:18:36]>> Growing up, they grew up together. and they raised their children together in northern Montana, outside of Malta, Montana. And um so all of my aunts and uncles on both sides knew each other, grew up knowing one another all their lives.

[00:18:56]And so they my dad's family had a very good understanding of what I could and couldn't do and what what was being done to me as far as being shunned and that kind of stuff. Um, so they rallied, I would say, a little extra. Um, and uh, and I always had LOL, you know, I had LOL and I had my biological family, my dad's side.

[00:19:19]>> Yeah.

[00:19:19]>> And I, and I always had my mom, my mom, >> um, she wrote me letters and said things, but to my face, we just had a surface, you know.

[00:19:28]>> Um, I never stopped going to see her or anything like that. um that relationship didn't demise until all of this happened and >> she had an opportunity to make things right and chose not to. So um >> okay >> that's yeah >> you know um that's not on me.

[00:19:48]>> Um so you were talking about finding community after you left um and kind of like rebuilding that can be really daunting for us. Uh like what were some of those first steps like for you? like how did you even know where to go, what to start with?

[00:20:04]>> Well, I started at work, you know, which I think for women is probably hard because they a lot of them don't work outside the home or they're older.

[00:20:12]That's one of the other things as people who are older. So, I would say volunteering like I've I've always been a huge volunteer.

[00:20:18]>> Um, go to nursing homes. I mean, there's such a need. I am telling you there's such a need for love in this world. Such a need for love. And that has really been my saving grace.

[00:20:29]I mean, you can be foster parents, you can be foster grandparents, even you can be do respit care, you can do >> if people aren't aware of those things, man, I'll make a list because there's a lot of need and a lot of opportunity to be of service in the community. And that is the best way when you start loving and giving, it changes everything for what's going on inside. It is the most healing thing um you know that you can really do. I think >> so.

[00:21:01]>> I agree. My eyes have been opened.

[00:21:03]>> Um the more involved I get in community there are opportunities everywhere.

[00:21:08]>> Everywhere you can Yeah. take your dog to the hospital, take your dog to the, you know, >> you can train animals uh for people. You can I mean there are so many >> so many things >> opportunities that you can volunteer. I would say start there and I've always done that. It has I' I raised my daughter doing that. Um it's just a huge part of the culture of who we are because I mean if people hadn't taken care of me I don't >> Yeah.

[00:21:35]>> And they weren't it was nobody that was supposed to, >> right?

[00:21:38]>> It was people who literally opened their home or opened their hearts and took care of me.

[00:21:43]>> Right. And >> yeah, I would not at all the people I was born to and not at all the people that raised me, you know.

[00:21:52]>> Um, but very much my community.

[00:21:56]>> I would never be the person that I am if I hadn't had a strong community around me and I did.

[00:22:02]>> Um, yeah. So I >> And that you brought your daughter along with you and showed her how to be in community with you.

[00:22:10]>> Yes.

[00:22:11]>> And how to be a part of that. Yes. To build community, to build, you know, it takes reaching out, it takes love, a lot of love. And it's just a huge commitment. Like, you got to want the same things, you know, but if you have a heart for service, which I think a lot of us coming out of this church do, >> I think so. Yeah.

[00:22:30]>> Um, it's very fulfilling and I would highly recommend it um to anyone. I mean, there's hospitals and they're all full >> and you'd be amazed how many people don't have people coming to see them and you know, things like that, nursing homes, people are just sitting there like all of it. There's plenty to do.

[00:22:49]>> Um there's so many like so my youngest son has Down syndrome and there's an organization called GG's Playhouse and they're all over the country. I don't know if you've heard of them. Um, and they want volunteers all the time to help with the kids and adults with Down syndrome for tutoring, for activities, like endless amounts of opportunities, right?

[00:23:07]>> Yes, I highly recommend it. It has been >> Yeah., >> you know, outside of my career, it's been the most satisfying >> uh part of my life. And >> that's awesome.

[00:23:19]>> Yeah. Um, so what were what would you say like looking back um have been some of the big biggest steps or biggest pieces that have helped you to find your voice to speak up to find your um authenticity and kind of step into your own power? That's something you talk a lot about.

[00:23:38]>> I do. Um well it start >> and you know like yeah coming from the church right like purity culture taught us there was one one more or less way to be a woman right >> y >> um and it was being humble and meek and quiet and uh we weren't to take leadership roles >> right >> um and I won't speak for all women but I think a fair amount that I've talked to and for myself I learned to make myself small, >> I learned that a lot of times it was safer not to say what I really think, >> not to ask the questions I want to ask, >> um, so how do we get from that place of conditioning where we are as women to a place where we feel safe being who we are, feel safe talking about what we really think.

[00:24:32]Safety I think is the first step in making sure that you are in a safe relationship, in a safe home, >> in a safe situation because safety is the only way that you can learn about vulnerability >> and vulnerability and honesty really go hand in hand. Um, and honesty is the only way out of where you're starting from. Um and it's hard but it is the only way to truly and we became such people pleasers and we became >> what you said you know shoving it down shoving it down um so all unhealthy so many unhealthy things and that's why my passion for that is so intense now um because I know exactly how hard that is um >> but so the safety is the first one. So, being honest about that though, um that you're in a safe relationship and in a safe home. So, um >> So, was that a piece for you then when you left your marriage early on? Was that a piece of it? That getting safe piece?

[00:25:43]>> Yes. Okay. And isn't that he wasn't he wasn't emotionally safe for me. Okay.

[00:25:47]That was like he was never going to co-parent this child that he didn't >> want and had no >> need to have that I did.

[00:25:57]>> Um And I mean I just I getting her really shifted everything. I didn't even ask him permission. I didn't I mean we didn't communicate.

[00:26:06]>> Okay.

[00:26:07]>> So very well >> like most of us, you know, didn't know how.

[00:26:12]>> And um so I was really lucky. You know, I took a class in college called the study of love and it was a philosophy requirement that I had. And that professor, he's actually the one that saved my life when I tried to take my life. He found me because I didn't come to class. How many professors go looking for their kid?

[00:26:30]>> Well, I you know back then though it was 1989 and he did and to the till his dying day he was a very close mentor of mine.

[00:26:40]>> Wow.

[00:26:41]>> Um and we I became like a child to him and his wife and I still see her every time I'm back in Michigan. Um she's still living but um yeah very very close with them but the study of love. So I started learning about Carl Young and a lot of his philosophies >> and um I learned all that and and it really really resonated with me. So I was very young then but everything about my being said love is the ticket. Love is what's going to heal. Love is what's going to make this work. And I was also parenting this child in a very unhealthy adult at the time. Her birthother was not in a healthy place. And so trying to keep her safe uh emotionally from I'm coming. No, I'm not. I'm coming. You know what I mean? That whole cycle.

[00:27:33]>> Yeah.

[00:27:35]>> All of it. Just all of it. I my body, my mind, everything was just screaming for safety. And after what I had gone through, you know, for myself, I had no business, like I said earlier, to taking this child. But um but she kind of saved my life at the same time because I had to show up for her >> and u and I did and I was determined that she was not going to have the life that I had. And >> um I think also for women that is a very motivating factor for your children to not have to endure or learn what we did and then have to unlearn it later. Like I think that's a really motivating factor and if anybody's out there listening that's still in and taking their children to meeting I I have a very cautionary point of view on that.

[00:28:29]>> Um because the damage I see the damage every day. I I I spend my life 247 helping women find their voice now.

[00:28:38]Yeah. From this church.

[00:28:40]>> Uh and I think that's so true like for myself. I think my kids like you know for myself I'm like well I can deal with anything right but I will do the hard things for my kids that maybe I wouldn't do for myself initially right and now I'm learning to also show up for myself in the same way >> but I think a lot of women are that way like >> when it's about our kids the instincts come out which is exactly what we want to connect to >> those are very right on >> um and we know what to do.

[00:29:11]>> Yeah. So I have a little saying and I say it all the time. The truth lies in the anticipation and that's the truth.

[00:29:16]And when I said about being honest with yourself if if all anybody took away from this whole conversation is one thing and it would be that of just >> our guts know our nervous system knows.

[00:29:27]Something inside of you always knows. If you're dreading going to meeting or you're dreading going home or you're dreading going to work or you're dreading going to your parents or whatever it is, there's something in you that dread the truth always lies in the anticipation. And so when you're looking forward, you're either looking forward to something or you are not. And it's that simple. It is not more complicated than that. And if you can start living and just being aware, start with awareness. Start by just listening to that moment of I don't know why I agreed to this. And then go through the process of why did I agree to this? and be honest with yourself because they thought I wanted. Is it because that what you want to do or is it because that's what everybody else thinks you should do.

[00:30:10]>> And coming out of the 2 by twos that is one simple. It's true in every area of your life. I don't care what you do for your life and I don't care if you're a man or a woman.

[00:30:19]>> We all have that same nervous system in there. We know what is right for us and we know what resonates and what doesn't.

[00:30:25]And it's that it's that anticipation.

[00:30:27]You're either dreading it or you're looking forward to it. That's so helpful because I think we have been taught from when we were young to second guessess >> all of those natural instincts, right?

[00:30:39]Um, and so it can be hard to reconnect with that, >> like to really, like you said, be honest about is my body saying this is a yes or is this a no?

[00:30:50]>> And I think we talked about this a little bit when you and I had a conversation before on survivor rights, but I think it's such an important piece of it is reconnecting with your yes and no. And yeah, do you have any advice for how to reconnect to that? Because I even just that can be really hard.

[00:31:05]>> It can start.

[00:31:06]>> What you want to eat? Like that can be really hard.

[00:31:08]>> It's that simple. It really is. But I start by just saying so I have this little practice called positive focus.

[00:31:15]And it's because um you know we are so hard on ourselves.

[00:31:20]Nobody could ever be as hard on us as we are. And you know, you think everybody else is hard on you being a 2 by two.

[00:31:25]Wait till you look yourself in the mirror and get honest about how mean you are. Um, so positive focus is a is just a little trick of starting to give yourself positive reassurance of what you've done well or done right. So what's the best decision that I've made today? What's the most healthy thing I did today? Like clarifying some of those things for yourself on and everybody's life is different. So you kind of have to figure out what it is that you're working toward. Um but it's you know for me it's did I reach my did I exceed my screen time goal you know like these days >> it will shift as you go through life but >> if I was three hours over then I've got a problem you know that means that I'm saying yes to something that's not in line with my yeses over here. So, the positive focus piece, you kind of have to practice that one first. Otherwise, what I'm about to say tends to fall apart.

[00:32:24]>> Okay, >> I'm about to say that you have to get clear about your yeses. And it's you don't worry about your nos because when you know what your yes is, >> your nos are easy.

[00:32:40]You got to start thinking, I want my children raised healthy. I want good comm community. I want to model community community. I want to model communication, healthy communication. I want them to have coping skills. I want them to know have self-confidence. I want them to know what they're what they were born to do in the world.

[00:33:02]>> I want them to know how to navigate it.

[00:33:04]I want them to ask for what they need from me.

[00:33:08]>> You know, so many things like, so each person has to kind of figure out what that is for them. And even if it's I mean we have a lot of people who are 60 plus that are leaving and for them it's what do you want your relationship to look like for your children? What kind of legacy are you you know? So rebuilding some of those commun rebuilding their marriages, rebuilding their connection with their children and their grandchildren, >> you know, instead of being that judgmental parent or that judgmental grandmother that was that's always like, well, you could have done better or, >> you know, >> that's nice instead of truly celebrating the people that you love, you know.

[00:33:50]>> So, it's getting clear about who are your top people. who are who are your your top people will define your top priorities and what you want in those relationships.

[00:34:01]>> And so, and again, it's being honest.

[00:34:04]It's it's not saying, "Oh, well, it should be my parents or it should be so and so."

[00:34:12]>> The shoulds, right? We have so many shoulds. I should be doing this. I should have doing that. They want me to do this.

[00:34:19]>> You nailed it.

[00:34:21]>> Mhm.

[00:34:23]Yeah, >> there's so much of that. I mean, if you follow it, it's like cattle going through the right to >> and then you are not directing your own life.

[00:34:34]>> Nope.

[00:34:35]>> At that point >> and you can't be authentic, >> right?

[00:34:40]>> It's impossible.

[00:34:42]>> Yeah.

[00:34:43]>> Impossible.

[00:34:45]>> And I always say piece of it.

[00:34:47]>> Yeah. I always say the word impossible is I am possible.

[00:34:53]>> Just reframe that, baby. Reframe that because literally it's all about your mindset.

[00:35:00]But all of everything that we're talking about starts with permission to even get started because I in my experience because I do want run a women's group as we talked about >> um it's very hard to not stay stuck in the programming that you've had your entire life. Yeah, I think this is a big hurdle um to focus on ourselves because it has been so drilled into us that that is a bad thing and that is selfish >> and that we should be putting other people first. So, how do you help women >> um reframe that >> uh change that paradigm?

[00:35:45]>> I model it. That's the only thing I can do.

[00:35:48]>> I love them where they are. I give a lot of positive affirmation.

[00:35:54]>> We, you know, we talk a lot on worthy about how we used to be so judgmental and we used to lie like I mean if somebody could have the ugliest dress ever and we would be like, "Oh, yeah.

[00:36:03]No, that's really pretty. No, it's not.

[00:36:06]That's not that's not honesty. That's not authenticity, you know? It's just not." So now it's like I'm thinking about cutting my hair shut getting my hair cut short. Do you like this or this? Like what do you think?

[00:36:20]like they still want we still need one another's opinion like that's part of community >> and I think that's why people go back or think about they don't go back these days but they think about going back >> um because it's just hard to jump over that threshold of like but I it was so much easier when I just knew what I was supposed to do now I don't know what I'm supposed to do about anything you know >> and it's your whole life man it's not easy >> um you since you brought up worthy I want to talk a little bit about that and we can circle back to some of these other things. So, can you tell us a little bit about what you do with women, how you started this group, like how it came to be?

[00:36:57]>> Sure. So, I owned a luxury spa for several years in Steamboat Springs, Colorado at the base of the mountain.

[00:37:05]And the spa then led to a Bed Bath Body store and then that led to a designer clothing store. So, I had like if you drove through the Sherton, I owned a lot of pretty much every store in the >> thing. But um so in that I learned a lot. I was already into fashion and I loved like makeup and hair and you know all the stuff. I always have.

[00:37:29]>> Um that part I'm girly. Uh, and what and like if you watch talking about confidence, if you look back at like how my hair got from down to my knees to where it is now, you can literally watch the progression of my confidence over years to the point that it got to here.

[00:37:49]And so, long story short, I built that and so and I loved it. And the Sherin sold and was condominiumizing. They were no longer going to be a hotel. And so I just shut everything down in 2008, March 2008. So what a gift that was.

[00:38:04]>> God had me again. Um because I couldn't have survived what happened after that in 2008 in retail the way that I was exposed. Um >> anyway, uh so and I always love it like I just anybody that I teach people how to do stuff all the time. And so I thought I was driving down the road one day and I thought, man, wouldn't it be fun to just teach all these women about hair, makeup, and stuff?

[00:38:28]>> What?

[00:38:29]>> My husband and I had just made this decision to relocate to this off-grid cabin. Literally had closed on it the week before. And I'm telling you, we were talking about earlier, I had a prompting. I am not kidding you. I say this all the time. It was as plain as day. I was driving and I had something said, "Jennifer needs a place to go."

[00:38:46]And at the exact moment that she was being let go, I had sent her a message and said, "I don't even know where you are in the world, but I just want you to know that if you ever need a place to go, um, you're welcome at our place."

[00:39:01]Well, sent her a one-way plane ticket two days later, and she was here for several weeks. She came >> here right after leaving meeting >> or leave. Yeah. Well, leaving meeting and leaving the work and all of that.

[00:39:13]So I at the time we just have a little 14 by6 cabin like her and I >> my husband was still back working and so >> it was a process of us but we had grown up together so it was fine. We worked it out. We got our tent and anyways >> and that was back when we didn't have the amenities that we've got now.

[00:39:34]>> So it was fun though. We had a blast but it was a really healing time for her to just come here and be in nature like we are. like she would go out in the field and the eagles would come like I mean it was just things that there's no other way to explain what happened while she was here. So we also live on live on native land. Um and she really connected with that and the river. We live right on the edge of the Columbia River. So anyways, after she left and I missed her really bad >> because I was with her all the time, you know, 24/7 we were together all the time and she was here for a long time and so when she moved I really miss her and so it was like I thought well that'll be fun. That'd be a fun way to like connect with people to do the world.

[00:40:17]>> That's how I got into it and I so I posted it on one of the groups and said hey if if we did this would you guys want it? By the time I got to town I had 50 people. Yes, I want to do it.

[00:40:26]>> Wow.

[00:40:27]>> So, I did it that night. I didn't have a name. I didn't have nothing. I was just like, "Oh, I will do hair and makeup."

[00:40:32]>> Yeah, that would be fun.

[00:40:34]>> That was in February of 2024.

[00:40:38]>> Okay.

[00:40:40]Yeah. Just over two years ago.

[00:40:42]>> Yep.

[00:40:43]And now we have over,00 women. And but I very quickly found out I mean very quickly.

[00:40:49]>> It was not about hair makeup. It was all about >> Yeah. Talk a little bit about that cuz you've told me that before. That was your initial I mean you you've done that too now. Um but >> yeah, I do all that now. Yeah, we do it now for fun.

[00:41:00]>> Um but it really uh I very quickly realized that they just had no voice and no self-esteem and no like just starting the ability to look in the mirror and so I started doing lives. That's how I started getting like got on this whole live thing is because I would get on lives and just talk and how are you doing today and >> you know just to talk to them and >> ask them how they were and if any like I I didn't schedule anything back then. It was just super casual. If I had extra time I'd hop on and be like what are you guys doing? You know I'm just here to talk. And so it just that's how it started. And it was like one or two people and then five or six people and then it just kind of grew from there.

[00:41:41]And we end guess what we ended up talking about every time. Same things.

[00:41:45]And it was sad. It was just heartbreaking. And I really realized, you know, >> can you share a few of the things that came up? I don't want you to share personal information, of course, but just like the common themes that were coming up in those conversations.

[00:41:56]>> A lot of abuse. Still living with and dealing with a lot of abuse either in domestic violence situations.

[00:42:02]um so little self-esteem. It was like back to what you said earlier about not knowing what they even want for breakfast or lunch that I mean if they were in charge of the menu that's one thing but what they're going to order where they're going to go for dinner or >> any of that absolutely no clue and no clue where to even begin on makeup or on you know >> changing their style or their hair or any of that. I mean, >> and I really realized it was just the inability to make a decision or to be have any kind of sense of selfworth. So, we started talking about looking in the mirror. Well, that I mean, people literally just started crying when I was like, well, just go if if if all you can do today is just go look in the mirror.

[00:42:43]>> Just look yourself in the eyes and look in the mirror.

[00:42:48]And tears, crying. And I was like, "This is way way worse than I ever dreamt."

[00:42:59]>> Yeah.

[00:43:00]>> I just I I don't know. I never dreamt it was that.

[00:43:05]>> And it's all purity. Every single thing you talk about, that's what it was.

[00:43:09]>> Yeah.

[00:43:10]>> All of it. Every bit of it.

[00:43:12]>> Um and it was consistent across the board, no matter where they were in the world. Um >> Yeah.

[00:43:18]And um but it was just you know so we started with little things like just thing I just started sharing how I live my life like how I connect to the spirit world and I how you light a candle like just in that moment if all you do is take one moment of attention >> and light a candle and just look for the blue in the flame and when you see the blue that just forces you to focus >> for just a second >> to see the blue and the flame then you can go on with your day but just take that. So, we still do daily candle lighting to this day.

[00:43:51]>> Oh, that's beautiful.

[00:43:52]>> Yeah. And we have, you know, inspirational messages with it and everything, but um >> yeah, it just it really just evolved naturally to what And in the very beginning, I also realized like this crazy blonde that gives a was way too much for these people for the most part. Like >> I was intense. I didn't like back then I was like >> my you know loud and and it I was like okay that's not going to work. So, I um backed it off a lot and just started going like I would go on with my hat and no makeup and just be real.

[00:44:27]>> And I think >> I think that when I started doing that and stopped getting dressed up and that kind of stuff cuz you know >> I just thought it was like that's what we do like we were professing people, right? You get dressed.

[00:44:41]>> Yeah.

[00:44:41]>> And I was back then looking for a reason to get dressed because I live in the middle of nowhere and I don't have any reason to get dressed. But I very quickly realized no. Yeah, that makes so much sense though to have that safe space just to like slowly start >> to uncover yourself, >> not be pushed, right? Because that can feel very scary too if someone's pushing you too hard when you first come out.

[00:45:02]>> Yep. There was just a lot of listening in the beginning. And I will say this, I did not allow any negativity right out of the gate. If somebody came in and they were >> if they were down on themselves, I addressed it personally directly with them. But if they were bringing that negativity into the group, I did not allow that right out of the gate. I also don't allow uh religion. I we don't do Christianity or lack of very very little.

[00:45:26]>> Um very different from survivor rights.

[00:45:29]>> Okay.

[00:45:30]>> Worthy is all about women, empowering women, confidence, finding your voice, finding your style, what what you like and don't like. It's that's the whole all of it. And then the hair, makeup stuff is just a bonus.

[00:45:46]>> Yeah. And so, um, for people who are listening, this is a private Facebook group, right?

[00:45:51]>> Yes, that one's >> private. It's called >> what happens in worthy stays in Worthy.

[00:45:54]We say that all the time.

[00:45:56]>> Um, so it's not publicly searchable from for anyone to join. Um, are there men are there men in the group?

[00:46:01]>> No.

[00:46:02]>> No men in the group.

[00:46:03]>> I did allow men in for a while.

[00:46:05]>> Okay.

[00:46:05]>> Um, for a variety of reasons.

[00:46:08]And um yeah, for a variety of reasons, but um I recently well since Steve started the men's group for ex people when that started.

[00:46:18]>> Um and we also were starting a pelvic health class and some other things that are very and we're really focusing this year on menopause and some really specific women issues, you know, >> and bringing in speakers and stuff for that kind of thing. And so it's not we don't need men in that conversation. So, um, >> yeah, >> I recently sent them all to the men's group.

[00:46:40]>> Yeah. And we I'll be having another conversation in a couple weeks with Steve, so we'll talk more about that about the work is doing with the men, which is also very important.

[00:46:47]>> Yes.

[00:46:49]>> So, yeah. Um, what kind of I know I have seen some amazing things in your worthy group um for different people that are coming in and educating too. Um, there's the pleasure hour that is it Phoebe that does that a couple times a month?

[00:47:02]Yes.

[00:47:02]>> Um all about sexuality and you mentioned pelvic pelvic health. What other things do you have going on there regularly?

[00:47:08]>> So Rosie does a monthly or a weekly class every Monday and that's um Rosie Rasmmanson. She does awake aware and mindful. She's a life coach out of Australia. So she teaches a lot about being kind to yourself and very gentle.

[00:47:21]So her and I are a really good balance for one another because she's very gentle and her voice is very soft and her her way is very soft and graceful.

[00:47:30]whereas I am absolutely the opposite of that. So we So she does a Wednesday or a Monday show and I do an every Wednesday show. So my show I do I interview different people all the time. So Cynthia Lyles and I do a monthly sip and and serve. We just talk about whatever her and I Yeah, like just friendship stuff, but it catches people up on what we're doing and >> um that kind of stuff. But other than that, >> do you talk about Cynthia's advocacy work at all in those calls or is that more personal?

[00:48:04]>> Yes.

[00:48:05]>> No.

[00:48:05]>> Yes.

[00:48:06]>> It's strictly strictly what we're gonna when we're going to get to see one another next or her dog or my dogs or you know whatever. Yeah. And once in a while we do I mean I sometimes we ask opinions like her Natalie and her and I went live together. the three of us were together and went live and we were asking about, you know, can we start calling this the worker church instead of the 2 by twos to be less offensive or, you know, just some things like we wanted some feedback from people about things and they're a good group because >> I I have to say they have found their voice. They're really good at giving me, you know, but I can go to them and literally say this or this and they're like that's too harsh or you know, >> and I just love them so much for that.

[00:48:47]Um, >> and we all Yeah. We need people in our lives that are honest. Yes. Right.

[00:48:52]>> Yes. I mean, I'm in a vacuum. I can't I don't know. I need you to tell me back off or push harder or, you know.

[00:49:02]>> Yep. And so, you mentioned Natalie. Um, can you let people know what Natalie does because she has been on >> Dr. Natalie Bolan. Yes. Um, so she runs Pathways to Healing. So, that is the arm that does all of the advocacy work. um that has advocates. So, they train advocates. We're getting ready to start a leadership training program. Um and she will be on survivor rights next week to talk about that a little bit more.

[00:49:27]But it is really trying to just continue to build community. And then they're also the arm that helps everyone in the world that has been a CSA survivor from the 2 by2 church >> uh access therapy. So they're not the funding arm, they're the connection arm and they have so she runs that whole program and it's a 501c3 that that she has started. So um >> yeah, the two of them are very we are the three of us are very close personal friends. Um but you know it's again it's honesty. We lift each other up. We tell each other back off. We run things by one another. Like you know if it weren't for them I would have probably gone off the rails a long time ago. you know, >> they're just there to give me guidance and same in return. You know, we talk each other off the ledge a lot.

[00:50:13]>> That's good because this work can take a lot out of you when you're in the in an advocacy space, right?

[00:50:18]>> Yes. So, we also help one another remind one another like that's kind of our, you know, anybody ready for wine then?

[00:50:27]>> Yes. Yes. And then we just get on video and >> which is very much needed, right? It is.

[00:50:35]>> Hang out with your friends. Yeah, >> that's what we do. Unworthy. We do.

[00:50:38]That's what, you know, we just basically have that.

[00:50:41]>> Yeah. So, again, I think it's, you know, I love what Mardell, my friend Mardell Jackson said the other day. It's that we're building the community that we always thought we had and now we have it.

[00:50:51]>> And we Yep. Now we have it.

[00:50:53]>> Now we have it. And it's real.

[00:50:55]>> And we love each other so much.

[00:50:58]>> Yeah.

[00:50:58]>> Like, and I guess, you know, it's going to take an army. And it does like >> y >> it's not I always say don't ever underestimate not leading the charge because trust me it takes so many people that you know they send me funny little memes all the time or just you know make sure I'm taking care of myself. They send me care packages and all kinds of stuff all the time.

[00:51:23]>> Awesome. That's so needed. So yeah, >> and I think it's beautiful in the advocacy space that we have so many different people using their inherent gifts and what they're passionate about.

[00:51:34]>> Yes.

[00:51:34]>> Um I think it's a really beautiful thing that has come out of all this. Um where each person kind of has the uh agency to go >> and do where they to fill a need where they see it to use what they're passionate about to find other people to help them. And it's built up all of these groups, right? Like you were saying, like your group, Worthy and Survivor Rights and Steve's Men's Group and Pathways to Healing and Bridges and Balm and United Open Arms and CCF, like all of these groups, the X2 by2 group. I probably left somebody out, but I think this these networks that are being built to actually support humans >> Yes.

[00:52:13]>> are beautiful.

[00:52:15]>> Yeah. And I think that they all really work closely together, you know, like I really feel like >> um the only thing I feel like we're weak on right now is the younger crowd. Like we don't have anybody out doing like the Tik Toks, you know? We need somebody in that lane.

[00:52:32]>> Yeah.

[00:52:33]>> Uh doing advocacy for the young teenage like 15 to 25 or 15 to 30 year olds. I don't feel like we're doing a very good job right now of reaching that particular group.

[00:52:45]>> That's that what I would say my only >> Yeah.

[00:52:48]>> Um and we are going to do some parenting classes um on Rights.

[00:52:54]>> Oh, I love that. Mark Simmons has been doing some parenting uh interviews which I think has been great. I think that's huge because >> it is >> that's a whole I mean when we change our coming out of the church like so many of the things we learned affect our parenting affect our relationship with our kids >> totally >> and there's a lot to learn >> there is there's a lot to learn >> I was lucky growing you know you probably have had a lot of training with a down syndrome child as well you know I had a child that had special needs and so I was I got a I had access to a lot of resources and parenting classes and education and therapy and all that kind of stuff you And so as much as I hated what we were doing, at the same time I learned a lot. And then also >> learn a lot >> being a foster parent.

[00:53:36]>> Yeah.

[00:53:38]>> You'll learn a lot.

[00:53:40]>> You learn a lot. Yeah.

[00:53:41]>> And I'm a steparent and you know, so yeah. Yeah. Mark and I try to talk every Wednesday. We have a little >> Oh, good.

[00:53:47]>> Yeah.

[00:53:48]>> That's awesome.

[00:53:49]>> Um Yeah. So, you know, again, it's just that connection of like we're really learning who's who and who who we can lean on and who we, you know, but >> honestly, all of us working together, I think is the ultimate goal for all of us to just >> Abby and I had a conversation this morning that, you know, >> the goal is we all have the same goal and it's moving forward and healing >> Yep. Exactly. Um, is there anything that you wanted to talk about that we haven't covered yet today?

[00:54:21]>> Um, no. The main thing that I really I wanted to end um today on hope. That was my only um thing is that I just like I had a conversation with somebody today. Um she's probably gonna hate me for this, but I'm going to tell her anyway. Um the gal that's playing the piano today, somebody that I have just had an opportunity to learn French be become friends with. Um, and I told her just today, 6 months ago, you would have never reached out to me and said, "I would be happy to play the piano and sing for this vigil."

[00:54:57]And I wrote back and said, "Yes." And I also want to honor that six months ago, you would have thought it, wanted to do it, but never said a word. And so, I want to honor that, too. And that's what I want to say is the hope that anybody out there that has a dream or a natural ability, we all do, everybody does, you know, >> and what it just takes. Sometimes it takes somebody pulling it out of you.

[00:55:25]Sometimes it's like, oh, you see an opportunity, I'm going to speak.

[00:55:30]>> And it's just the right person at the right time offering. Like >> the world is full of synchronicity.

[00:55:37]And when you start putting yourself out, you know, your toe wet a little bit and then a little bit more, I think it's pretty profound. And and that builds confidence more than anything else. I don't care if you're sitting in a parking lot crying your eyes out. That's where confidence gets built.

[00:55:51]>> Yeah. And I think that's such a great point, Crystal. And I wanted to hit on this a little bit, too. So, I've had the experience where I've missed my opportunity to say something. Like, it still takes me a while sometimes. And so I'll look back and oh shoot I didn't say what I wanted to say. But if we can look at that and be like but next time >> I'm going to do it and then you do it because you're ready.

[00:56:14]>> And then that just builds right. It >> does.

[00:56:16]>> And it's okay if it takes a long time to get to that next time too. Like >> Oh yeah.

[00:56:21]>> You you were talking in a conversation recently um not with me with someone else about we came out of the church with a sense of urgency and like if things don't happen right away like something's wrong. Can you talk a little bit about that too as we're we have this sense of hope, we're growing, we're healing.

[00:56:40]>> Okay. I am 56 years old. It's 2000 or it's 2026. I left in 1993.

[00:56:48]>> I've had years of therapy. I've had years of business and being out in the world. Success. I've been, you know, >> and there's not a lot of us, unfortunately, that have been out that long and done the work, too. You know, >> right? It's a lot of work to get to so being patient with yourself. I mean, I have made so many mistakes in my life and then you fall back and you start back again. Um, but it's really building like once you start getting clear on your tribe, who your people are, who you know has your back, it's such a different feeling. We did not come out of that. We did not come out of that even in our own families knowing that no matter what, my family's got my back. We did not come out of that. Very few people had that blessing >> in the church and um I certainly did not have that blessing. Um and most didn't.

[00:57:39]You know, it was very conditional.

[00:57:42]>> And so just here's what I'm going to say.

[00:57:45]>> Think about how many years it took to get this way.

[00:57:49]>> If it only if divide that in half and say, "Okay, that's a good measure. If I can heal in half the time that it took me to get to this point, >> that is twice as good. So, I would say just like Rosie says all the time, be kind and gentle with yourself because >> it's that we're not in a race. This is not a sprint. This is literally a marathon.

[00:58:15]And >> even for the work that I do in advocacy and Cynthia and Natalie and like all of us doing it at that level, if we did not take care of ourselves and have the balance like I say it all the time, you really just have to not compare yourself to other people. And I think that's again, it's so ingrained in us.

[00:58:38]Oh, and that was part of what happened on worthy when I realized I needed to step back, put on my hat and my sweatshirt and show up as I who who I really am. This is how I live my life.

[00:58:48]Like I I have chicken hair. I wake up with my hair sticking straight up like when I started going on lives with like this. Good morning everybody. This is me having coffee like crazy crystal. Does anybody want to talk this morning? Like when I started doing that two year two and a half years ago, >> that's when everything changed. That's when people were like, "She does care.

[00:59:12]>> She doesn't care about what she looks like. She doesn't care about what we think. She cares about us."

[00:59:18]>> And that's where the vulnerability piece comes in. Like being able to let others see that we're not perfect.

[00:59:24]>> Yes.

[00:59:25]>> That we're just a human just doing our best, right?

[00:59:28]>> Yep.

[00:59:29]>> And we're going to make mistakes. We're not going to look great when we wake up.

[00:59:33]>> Yep.

[00:59:34]>> Right.

[00:59:34]>> Crazy, man. I'm telling you, I don't look like this when I wake up. I have wild chicken hair >> and I have really fair skin. So, yes, I have permanent makeup, everybody. But yes, um she's going to be on our retreat this week. But anyways, it's Yes, it's learning to just be who you are.

[00:59:59]>> Yeah. and and to let people show up. And you we talk a lot in that time very quickly. I know we got to wrap this up, but I the other thing is learning to receive >> that I would say goes so handinhand with that. So as you're starting this journey, >> opening your heart and being willing to receive and to trust and that's hard to do and >> super hard.

[01:00:20]>> It's super hard but especially coming out. So, it's one of the things we've been working on in Worthy a lot is if somebody says like if somebody says bless you.

[01:00:30]>> Mhm.

[01:00:32]>> You sneeze. Bless you. That you say in response, I receive that.

[01:00:38]>> I receive that. It's just acknowledging for your own self is trying to bless you. But what we are so trained to do is brush it off like, >> yeah, >> nobody cares and we're all alone. You're not alone. You're not not in this community. You're not alone out here, man. There is so many of us loving hard, >> giving hard, showing up every day.

[01:01:04]>> Yeah, that asking for help and care is hard to do.

[01:01:09]>> Yes.

[01:01:10]>> But it's really important. I Yeah, I have a hard time with that still.

[01:01:14]letting other people see when I need help, that I'm not invulnerable, that I'm not perfect, that I do not have myself together sometimes.

[01:01:25]So hard.

[01:01:26]>> Neither do I.

[01:01:28]>> Neither do I.

[01:01:30]>> Yeah.

[01:01:30]>> So, yeah. I mean, it's, you know, Yeah.

[01:01:35]>> This has been a beautiful conversation, Crystal. Yeah. You were going to say something, though.

[01:01:40]>> Oh, no. That's that's all. just learning to receive and and to let the love in like and when you start letting the love in, it's easier to let it start flowing out. And I think that is the beautiful thing that's happening in our community outside now is we are starting to really trust one another and really starting to love one another and show up for one another in ways that we are driving across the country to see one another and >> doing fun things and you know just and >> there's no way that God's not in that.

[01:02:12]I'm sorry.

[01:02:14]>> Yeah. Beautiful.

[01:02:15]>> Yeah.

[01:02:16]>> Well, thank you for the conversation and thank you for all the work you're doing for women. It's much appreciated and for the community. Um, yeah, we'll have to chat again sometime soon.

[01:02:26]>> Sounds good, my dear.

[01:02:27]>> Thank you.

[01:02:28]>> Yep. Take care. Have a good day.