The Antisemitism Spectrum - Private Eye's local election roundup

Ajouté : 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]Hello and welcome to another episode of Page 94. You join us at the very end of the local election campaign. So much of it has focused on what we would think of previously as the edges of British politics uh on right and left reform in the Greens. Uh it seems increasingly quite hard for the Conservatives and Labor traditionally quite big.

[00:00:18]>> You missed out the Lib Dems again.

[00:00:19]>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

[00:00:21]>> Which is the theme of the campaign.

[00:00:23]>> Yeah.

[00:00:24]>> Literally the Lib Dems are complaining our polls they were consistent. No one even mentioned us.

[00:00:30]>> Yeah, it's very unfair. I mean, so I just thought I'd mention them. Is Is that a fair summary, Helen, or is that >> I think that the Greens and Zack Palansky have taken up a vast majority of the oxygen in these campaigns for a very good reason. A lot of the seats that are being defended are Labour seats that are kind of green facing. Some of them are are reform facing. They expect to lose a huge number of seats. So that's almost been kind of factored in at this point, right? the story. If if Labor even do slightly better than you think, everyone will kind of fall about themselves with with shock. I'm bracing myself for a both reform and Green saying the mainstream media underrated us, but look how well we've done. This will be a lie if they say this. Everyone expects them to do incredibly well.

[00:01:10]>> And one of the things I found most interesting, I was reading um Jim Walton's very good newsletter, London Centric, in which he referred to the fact they'd got their hands on last year reforms local elections playbook, their canvasing handbook. And one of the things they'd say to their candidates are let Nigel deal with the national issues. You just focus on on Ulles or whatever it might on potholes on the housing estate that no one wants built, whatever it might be. That's one thing.

[00:01:34]And the other thing is don't post anything on social media >> at all.

[00:01:38]>> Don't think that this is now your time to air your thoughts about the Middle East peace process. And so I think having been through that mega storm of lots and lots of reform candidates being found out to have unpleasant views, they it's something the party is very aware of as a problem. The Greens are further back on that learning curve, I would say. So we have two people who've been arrested on allegations of anti-semitism. One of them seen campaigning out for the Greens after that. You have the Greens deputy leader Moin Ali saying to people who've been accused of anti-semitism, you know, get think about challenging the party on this. you know, we shouldn't give into these smear campaigns. So that fight that the Corbin era Labour Party went through in the years 2015 to 19 is now happening in very much the glare of publicity for for the Greens.

[00:02:22]>> We should say of course this is in the wake of the Golders Green stabbings and you know renewed focus on anti-semitism in in British public life.

[00:02:30]>> It was prior to that as well. I mean it was very obvious even prior to the stabbings in Gold's Green last week that that there was a concerted kind of campaign of of of violence and intimidation against the Jewish community. So there were fire bomb attacks on >> um most notoriously the the the ambulances but also a couple of attempted arson attacks at synagogues in in North London. So it was quite clear that that sort of stuff was going on.

[00:02:49]And even prior to the Gold's Green stabbing, Zach Palansky came out and said one of the most idiotic things that that we needed to be wary of whether this was Jewish people feeling unsafe or whether it was just a perception they had of unsafety, which um I mean there's quite a lot of clear evidence in there and fire bombs attacks. I I would feel quite unsafe.

[00:03:04]>> Yeah. And this and the stabbing outside Heaton Park uh synagogue in Manchester as well. I I mean if you look at the figures, the Jewish community in Britain is very small and it is enormously disproportionately affected by hate crimes. There isn't a synagogue or a Jewish school out there that doesn't have security around it, that doesn't have walls, you know, and I think this is a community that has felt that it has been living in fear for a really quite a long time now.

[00:03:26]>> Now, every party I would say has had its own problems with anti-semitism in in its ranks. I don't know about the Lib Dems actually. They they may have managed to dodge it. I'm not sure, but certainly uh this was a problem in Labor under Jeremy Corbyn that there seemed to be lots of c credible evidence that this is now a problem in the contemporary Green Party. Again, one shouldn't forget that the leader of the Reform Party had had quite a well publicized incident during his school days um which 24 people gave evidence about and which has now been dismissed and it's considered bad taste to bring it up. So, I thought I would um but it's not entirely gone, has it? And reform candidates >> mostly now are being discovered to have Islamophobic or whatever you want to call it uh tendencies, but there was a period where they were pretty anti-semitic.

[00:04:20]>> Yeah. I think it's an interesting insight into the evolution of anti-semitism in Britain is that it was the casual prejudice of choice. were one of them on the right in the in the 60s and 70s and since then it has been yeah there are still neo-Nazis out there but it has also now become associated with a particular left-wing form of anti-semitism which bleeds into some things that are legitimate. I mean this is always the problem with everybody draws their line in a different place but it it bleeds into criticisms of Israel particularly the Gaza war and also some of the tropes on the left about uh you know a global elite or a 1% or billionaires and some of those are perfectly legitimate and then some of those go into Rothschild's uh you know Illuminati protocols of the elders of Zionist control government and then it gets closer you know and closer and closer to overrank anti-semitism. So I think that that is you know there has been an evolution in where you would imagine the prejudice would come and for the right as you say Ian the the the people who are now to be afraid of are are Muslims and you will hear all these tropes about a Muslim invasion of Europe you know these idea of kind of armies of rapists overtaking us and so the kind of polls of of the kind of the racism have switched >> the far right are very keen on Israel now um so alongside the St. George flags you had demonstrations where there was St. Georgia. Oh, and the state of Israel. That's a long way for British fascism to move, which has been, you know, pretty solidly anti-semitic right the way through. Now, it isn't. Tommy Robinson was invited over to Israel, wasn't he? Why by I think the president's office, which is is an extraordinary kind of fusion of people.

[00:05:53]But there's another thing I've been noticing was really interesting is the sort of bandwagoning uh by the right onto this anti-semitism and blame that all on Muslim um communities as well. Uh which goes along with it. You know, they are being made the scapegoat for absolutely everything by by the right.

[00:06:05]But the the idea that anti-semitism in this country has somehow been imported in on the small boats and uh and and it's another migrant it's a migrant community who who who are completely to blame blame for that as well which is sort of equally inaccurate. I mean K star I know is trying to make the point at the moment that this is this itself a massive problem for society and it's something that we should all be ashamed of. Uh and to kind of move it on into just trying to scapegoat someone else seems to be as useless a reaction to it as as as any other really. Right now, I wasn't on the podcast last time, so can I just check? Is this all just an attempt by you three to have another go at poor old Zack Palansky who is doing his best under very trying circumstances to offer hope and change.

[00:06:50]>> Damn it, he's >> just facing this sort of sneering cynicism from the media. Is that >> Well, okay. So, uh, just to give you a glimpse behind the scenes while you were away, um, probably doing actually something actively green rather than, uh, the stuff the Green Party's more into these days, um, we got criticized by Zach Palansky for not understanding the appeal of the Greens. Uh, and Ian stands indicted of the crime of saying they don't seem to talk about environmentalism very much. They are more a leftwing populist party. And I I know and I remember this as the as I live in Lewisham, which is a contest between Labor and the Greens. as the green leaflet. Big picture of Zack Palansky on the front. Dropped through my letter box. Can you guess how many times environmentalism was mentioned in that leaflet? Andy, >> I'm going to say double figures at least.

[00:07:32]>> You're going to say none because it was none. It was about their populist economic proposals, the 15 pound minimum wage, for example. And the way that Zack Palinsky phrased this in his interview with the Times essentially, well, paraphrase by decorating him for him, was everyone knows that they're in favor of green issues. That's f that's sort of taken as a given. So, actually, they're going to talk about cost of living issues instead. One of the things I found quite unpleasant was the fact that um Rachel Milwood the green the other green deputy leader apart from moth alley was on question time um she was asked about the gold is green stabbing and the rise anti-semitism and she attributed to the cost of living >> crisis >> and I think that is yeah I know and I >> another random scapegoat >> there was yeah so but it's basically like austerity made a lot of people feel you know very angry and what struck me about that is that is a mirror image of things you will hear from reform supporters who say essentially it's very hard not to be racist these days because you know all these people coming over and taking our jobs, right? And that in both cases there is this idea that economic insecurity is kind of gives people a sign off essentially for finding a scapegoat. And I was quite surprised to hear that the Green, you know, party deputy leaders signing off that something that they would attack very heavily when the right use that same same language.

[00:08:40]>> Can I just say at this point I would like to be unpopular on all fronts and say that um there is classically a a problem with Islamism and anti-semitism.

[00:08:50]I made a documentary about anti-semitic precedents and ended up, you know, witnessing the Cairo book fair and this a couple of years ago where they're actively selling mine camp and a lot of cartoonists in Arab newspapers literally would not get published anywhere else on the grounds of anti-Semitic tropes. So we can't ignore it and I think it is it is worth saying that the eye has tried which is usually a failed policy um of saying we are against um Israel's behavior in Gaza but we're not very keen on anti-semitism. After our Gaza cover there was nothing but um letters saying you know the eye is absolutely anti-semitic despite um the number of literally every issue we write about anti-semitism online. um Elon Musk, uh all of those things. But we do run pieces saying, "Guess what's happening in the West Bank? It's not great." Dr. Grim runs those pieces. So attempting nuance is unacceptable in the new bipolar world.

[00:09:54]Um and that makes this issue even worse because everyone deliberately, you say, you know, the the borders between the two get confused. I think they're deliberately confused by people who want to play in that space. And you've had experience of this a lot over the years because of the the acid test of the letters page, you know, and whoever's complaining most and it's normally when someone someone is popular, someone is new, as Zach Balansky undoubtedly is at the moment, someone seems to be offering something different before mass disillusionment has kicked in as happens in every single political career. It's part of the process. Uh you you experience that in real time, you know.

[00:10:31]>> Yes. And uh people are furious and they write letters and and it used to be um the Scotsnats. They would they were easily the most prolific and badtempered letter writers about any mention of Nicholas Sturgeon at all. Any suggestion that anything in Scotland had gone wrong in any way was just you know sassinacu um and you know sort of what you want Boris. Then UKIP originally, you've never seen so many letters. Um, Tories briefly the Boris cult. Any mention of him, particularly the overflowing lavatory suggesting that was his legacy.

[00:11:07]I think there was a staggering >> that was the cover, right? That was the cover with a literal toilet on it.

[00:11:12]>> I wanted to complain about that because it was so horrible.

[00:11:15]>> Yes, it was horrible. Um, but the volume is and the Greens are out now. Yeah. um they are very very offended um by any criticism of Zach and any criticism of themselves and I think it's when you get this rush of popularity it doesn't occur to you that the thing that comes next is accountability because you might be in and by the time I say this he might well be in charge of a party that's running a lot of councils. People are going to ask you things and if they ask you things that you don't like or you don't particularly want to answer, that doesn't mean they're mainstream media smear merchants. I mean, you've just got to get beyond that. Otherwise, you know, you end up saying, "I don't want journalism."

[00:11:59]>> I I think about all the people we've had in politics in my lifetime. There has been a real difference between what you might call the populists and the the mainstream. The mainstream just moan a lot less about journalism, right? And that's one of the things that is I think is very different about them.

[00:12:12]>> Well, there was a there was a very fun piece last week, I think, in The Economist analyzing 35,000 likes by Zack Palansky on Blues Guy, which is his social media platform of choice. I mean, he's he's filming all the time. He's writing all the time and he's on it all the time clearly and he will like anything that mentions him positively.

[00:12:29]And he will also like quite a lot of stuff that's incredibly rude about anyone who's who's been even slightly critical of him. And it's just I don't have time to like 35,000 things on Blue Sky. I don't know how someone running a major political party does.

[00:12:44]>> But that speaks to what he's very good at, which is content creation. He's very he he's very visible. He turns up. He, you know, he he's pushing out his me message. These are things I will give him credit for is that that is part of the role of party leader. Now, something that Karma is obviously >> failing at and terrible at. What does Karma think we're going and how does he think we get there? Very hard to tell you now. even like he's just not communicating those things. Zack Lansky is I mean I think it's all completely different to what he believed 10 years ago and he's never really accounted for how he's changed his mind but we certainly know what >> he's apologized to Jeremy Corbyn >> that's the one thing that he's apologized for is essentially the Labour party being too tough on >> and he was fooled by the propaganda >> what the Libdem propaganda >> no the propaganda around corbinism >> oh I see >> the idea that there was any any anti-mitism in the Labour party yeah he's that's the bit he's apologized for >> suggesting that might have been the case Yeah. Okay.

[00:13:38]>> Stick your fingers in the socket now.

[00:13:40]>> No, I'm going to stick my finger in the socket because because one of the things that has been really interesting with the Greens that they were very good at at expelling people for was expelling gender critical feminists. So, Shah Ali in fact took the party to court. He felt that they had discriminated against his lawful views. So, I would say yes, I would take the fact that there has been a huge intake of new candidates and their vetting has been, you know, delayed by that. However, I would say is it also reasonable to say you had a very bright line about what views on sex and gender you were not per permitted in this in this party and as a political party that is your right. There's not an imposition in free of of free speech.

[00:14:13]People hold those views. They just aren't compatible with being in the Green Party. Sure. However, you are I think we're more reluctant to do this on views about anti-semitism and I think the rest of us are allowed to comment on that and disagree with it actually. And when you talk about vetting, I mean, when Farage said, "I I don't have time to vet these candidates," I thought, "Well, you could knock off two hours in the pub um and read the list." Um, >> he's got spare time. No, he's not doing his cameo videos anymore. He could get up at 5:00 in the morning, do a bit of vetting, and stuff.

[00:14:42]>> And the same with Zach. Rather than dress up in green clothes and pose for the Sunday Time photo shoot, you could have had a coffee and looked over the list.

[00:14:52]>> See, here's an idea. Ollie Robbins is looking for a job at the moment, isn't he? He's he's got some experience of vetting that could get him in.

[00:14:59]>> Before we move on from this bit, we should say just a little bit about exactly why Nigel Faraj has been able to afford to give up doing videos on Cameo for 75 quid a time.

[00:15:10]>> Um >> it's cuz he's on Celebrity Traers. It's >> he's the only person who isn't >> wi-i which is that in the last week we've learned that he received in 2024 a gift of5 million pounds uh which was not taxed from Christopher Harborn who is a Thai based crypto businessman. Yeah.

[00:15:32]>> And I believe billionaire. Uh I did a little calculation just in case you're interested. Uh Karma could have bought uh 2,000 pairs of nice glasses uh and still not come up to the level.

[00:15:49]>> Surely Mahin Ali could have bought that many pairs of glasses for K. Sorry. He doesn't own.

[00:15:53]>> In fact, that is the total in the whole glasses gate. It was it was it was many many more pairs of glasses than that you could get. This does not seem to have attracted the attention that I think it ought to. Um, Ferros got in very early with a defense. Uh, you you know exactly how that happened, didn't you, Helen?

[00:16:09]>> Well, so the the Guardian who had this story, according to them, um, went to them for comment on it. Uh, and the, according to the Guardian, the Reformed Press Office stalled them and said, "We need more time." Then they said, "Oh, you directed it to the wrong press officer, actually." And in the meantime, a uh, a very sympathetic piece, I think written by Gordon Rainer in the Telegraph appeared with the headline, "I was firebombed." M >> and this was lots and lots about >> by far >> about Nigel Farage being firebombed and this was lots and lots about Nigel Faraj's security issues with then very long way down going and in order to resolve these security issues I accepted >> this gift one problem with that I think you you spotted the problem didn't you Andy >> yes it's a timeline thing which is that the the fire the fire bombing the attempted arson attack on on Farage's home which we we don't need to say probably should say is deplorable shouldn't happen Yes, I'm in any Yeah, we're all against it.

[00:17:02]>> That happened one year after Farage accepted a a5 million pound donation, which is apparently something to do with his security. So, either Christopher Harbaugh is a psychic or crypto really is so good that it can predict something that's going to happen in a year's time, or that actually doesn't really stack up. And it was also a gift made when Farage was not an MP. So, they are saying, look, this is completely irrelevant to Mr. Farat's political career.

[00:17:25]>> But I love this is always the argument with donations that aren't declared, isn't it? is that technically it didn't have to be declared and in this case the excuse is it was the point where he said he was never coming back as reform leader and he was done now and Richard Ty was going to take over and it's just so clearly I mean to to use a parliamentary term complete bollocks isn't it because if if you're in hawk to someone for £5 million if someone is giving you five clearly on principle that is something you need if there is a register of interest that is an interest I mean this is the same argument that that our old friend Peter Mandlesson made first resignation time around when he said he didn't think it was relevant that that that that he owed 373 £3,000 to another cabinet minister at that point because he'd been he'd been lent it by Jeffrey Robinson to buy a house in Notting Hill. Clearly, it's a relevant interest. You don't have you don't need to kind of pass it and go into accountancy terms of exact technicality.

[00:18:11]And if it comes a few months before you announce not only that you're you're going back into frontline politics and also that you think this crypto stuff is fantastic and there should be much lower taxes on crypto transactions and later on Farage has said that he's invested nearly 300 grand in a company that buy and hold Bitcoin.

[00:18:29]>> Yes. You're suggesting that two and two equal four.

[00:18:31]>> Yeah, I am. Which I'm sure in Crypto World is not true due to something clever, but they do. And I love Nigel Fre's face. He's never Christopher Harbaugh has never asked me or anything.

[00:18:40]He gave you55 million pounds personally and has£17 million to the party. He doesn't need to ask you. You know what >> you know what you're doing.

[00:18:48]>> And also there is the obviously the amusing irony that the leader of a party that complains about foreign people having influence over British politics is now, you know, the largest recipient of the largest amount of money ever um by someone who's resident in Thailand.

[00:19:05]He probably loves Thailand. Um but he's also there in order to run a business there without all the incumbrance of British tax and British regulation which again doesn't seem hugely patriotic.

[00:19:18]>> Yeah, I think Niger is recreating the worst bits of MAGA involvement in crypto which is just a deeply scammy industry.

[00:19:25]I I would say any serious politician really should stay away from it and they should stay away from prediction markets. They should stay you know just that they should stay away from gambling like all of that >> and organized crime and those sort of things. I I would say >> running a sex ring, all of these things I would I would recommend that they often tend to shade into dodgy business and I'm against them. But um >> you're so radical, >> right? I'm so rightwing. Um but the thing the other thing is that Zia Ysef announced um on bank holiday Monday this he essentially this sort of like weird prisoners dilemma where he said we're going to do mass deportations. We're going to build migrant hotels and we're going to put them in places that vote green to punish them. So if you don't want one in your place, vote reform. And >> this literally comes with a website as well where you can put in your um postcode and it will tell you where you it looks like you're going to vote reform so you won't be getting one or it looks like people are going to green in your area. You will be getting it on your doorstep. I mean it's >> it's the I can't think of another situation in an election where there's been a sort of outright >> threat with menaces like that. Can you I mean there's the usual sort of bribery and kind of we will cut your taxes and that kind of thing. But an absolute >> if your area goes the wrong way then you're in trouble mate.

[00:20:31]>> Yeah. if you vote green, you're going to get more potholes and we're going to cause them, you know, >> but they think it's very clever, right?

[00:20:36]They think it's a trap that the left has walked into, which is like, oh, I see you don't like migrant hotels. I thought you thought refugees were welcome. Now, that is very true of a tiny subset of the Green Party who do believe in completely open borders. But actually, there's a lot of people voting green for a lot of other reasons, including cost of living and economic reasons, but who, you know, who don't feel like that. But this, again, I think is the MAGA trap.

[00:20:56]Donald Trump, no squish on immigration, has pulled back from pulling crying children out of the streets, right? Like just bundling people into cars, bundling them off to El Salvador or wherever it might be, because actually it looked cruel and unpleasant and people didn't like it. Even his supporters were not, you know, Steven Miller gung-ho about it, his effective chief of staff or his effective prime minister, but but mostly this was not a popular policy >> and he sacked the person in charge >> and Greg Bavino who was swaggering around in a very Riky coat. I would say uh got yeah got his marching orders. So you know this just I I think this is this is I thought that was a really unpleasant announcement. Obviously there's a million ways in which it didn't work. You know the places that Greens are going to win will be inner cities. If you think you can build anything in most places that elect Greens. Also if there's one thing that unites every part of the political spectrum in Britain it's nimism.

[00:21:47]Just people just hate anything being built in Britain. Like good luck with that. But it was also it was just it was just an odd punitive as you say like a sort of punishment beating for not voting for us in in a way that I think you're right crossed a line that I hadn't seen crossed before in British politics.

[00:22:01]>> And there is a long tradition in in British politics of of telling the voters you're going to give them free money. Um Hogarth onwards you know our our satirical tradition is rich with just politicians saying would you like something um I'll give it to you. They don't usually say vote for me or else.

[00:22:19]>> Yeah. that that's different.

[00:22:22]>> Right now, uh we come on to the state of the media and there's been a report about the the press freedom index which is a global uh report about how free the press is in all sorts of countries.

[00:22:35]Normally you're used to seeing it if you do see it in the context of a lot more people banged up in Usbekistan this year. Uh journalists I mean but obviously Adam it also features the UK because the UK is part of the global community. It is one of the 180 countries uh that were recorded in this report. Uh the World Press Freedom Index uh which is issued by reporters on Frontier which older readers will remember is the international version of um it's a knockout uh for the kids there. Um and obviously there was an awful lot. I mean generally it was it was a bad view. Um it was the lowest average score they've ever recorded across the globe in terms of press freedom. Um a lot of that was down to um journalists being killed in various conflict zones and other places around the world. 220 journalists, more than that now, I think, killed in Gaza by Israeli forces. Um, a lot in Sudan and South Sudan as well, they noted. Um, but I thought, um, because we're very very parochial, uh, we are UK based, we could have a look at what they said about the UK. Now, the UK fell two places. Uh, it's still recorded as satisfactory rather than good. It's the 18th most free press in the world according to reporters on Frontier, which not bad.

[00:23:38]>> That doesn't being sorry. Coming in 18th and it's still not good.

[00:23:42]>> That's satisfactory. Do you want to know who's good? I can tell you Norway, Sweden, Finland, Scandinavia doing fantastically. Ireland very good. Uh Estonia and uh and the Netherlands were the the ones who were graded as good, but we came in just as satisfactory.

[00:23:55]>> Is there anywhere graded outstanding?

[00:23:57]>> There is not. So, >> I just want I'm just testing the ratings cuz >> good is as good as it can get in the So, satisfactory is is is >> it's pretty good.

[00:24:08]>> So, why So, we've slipped. Did you say we slipped a couple of runs?

[00:24:11]>> Slipped a couple of rungs. Yep. Yep.

[00:24:12]Yep. not as not doing as badly as the US which has fallen seven places specifically because of Donald Trump and his his his kind of MAGA movements constant attacks on the media but the specific reasons they gave for the uh the UK deteriorating slightly problems with the uh with the UK >> one of them very specific um attacks on exiled Iranian journalists who are broadcasting from over here and threats to their family back families back in Iran to try and stop them um putting out what the uh anti-regime news um uh but they also noted uh a few other things the rise in online abuse of journalists Um and uh the government's failure to act as promised on slaps which of course are strategic lawsuits against public participation which uh any I reader will know we've we've covered in great detail along the way. So we we we've gone in specifically on um Muhammad's uh extraordinary range of uh legal threats against um Charlotte Leslie, the former Tory MP uh uh who he pursued through the courts as I say in in several different ways over several years uh for having to merit to put a memo out to 11 people containing some information about him.

[00:25:13]>> Uh >> so those are generally rich people shutting down journalists through the courts >> in a lot of cases. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:25:18]Another one was Tom Burgess who was actually the journalist who in the Guardian last week uh exposed the Christopher Harborn donation to Nigel Farage. We mentioned him earlier but he put a book called Kleptopia. Uh this case was thrown out as wholly flawed by the judge in the end but it was brought by a Kazakhstan based mining company. Uh so you know these are the sort of you know it's people with a lot of money behind them who really don't want any of their activities written about. So okay >> there have been lots and lots of those.

[00:25:41]Now the government did promise um ahead of the election that this was going to be one of their priorities that they were going to bring in legislation to stop this kind of thing. uh there was a kind of falank of media lawyers. The society of media law lawyers was created which is lots of people from uh firms that I readers will know and love like Schillings and Carter Ruck. Yeah, I'll get it right. Uh and various others who said this is absolute nonsense and this would be terrible um a terrible terrible thing to restrict our our clients right to uh legal representation >> and their right to shut down journalism.

[00:26:12]>> Yes. which um if you are a very very rich person, it never seems to occur to you that that that isn't one of your fundamental human rights that any criticism of yourself should stop. Um and there's always lawyers who prepared to do that. Um but it did look as though this battle was being won and there were brilliant books about you know um Russian autocrats that managed to survive um you know really good work really good journalism and suddenly we seem to be rowing backwards again um and the Labor government which I know I shouldn't take seriously what they wrote in the manifesto which is silly of me but I think I believe they might do this. Yes, and they still say that they will do at some point, but unfortunately what's happened is they've uh put in a working party which involves a lot of these same media lawyers who are lobbying very very hard uh against it and um it's sort of got kicked into the long grass as being something that's a bit difficult. I would say it was one of the most popular things they could possibly do if they want want to curry favor with newspaper editors.

[00:27:14]It's it's a slam dunk this one, isn't it?

[00:27:16]>> And boo foreigners, you know, it goes down pretty well. I mean, why why not extend it to rich foreigners?

[00:27:23]>> Yes. Who is pro Kazak billionaire? What is the position for Britain? Quite small. The other thing, Adam, I wonder if it came up. Um I was judging the Paul Foot Awards this year and really great entries as ever. Um and we'll see who wins. But one of the things that struck me again was particularly with the the local papers, the regional press.

[00:27:38]There's been some brilliant diversification onto Substack um and you know these sort of small startups, but it is still people are on shoestring resources.

[00:27:46]>> That absolutely was one of the other things that came up in this in this report uh in in in in the press freedom interest. uh they say the budgetary pressures have left many outlets forced to close their newsrooms or drastically reduce staff. Um and at the same time you're absolutely right there are these sort of independent um uh uh outlets which are coming out and doing fantastic journalism a lot of which is is recognized every year in in the foot awards as you say. Um so Mil Media who is one of these u independent outlets who are doing a lot of very very good journalism faced down all sorts of legal threats. Most recently in the last week uh they had a threat from um a spad to Shabban Mammud the home secretary over a story they were doing about her which were very definitely in the public interest threatening them with an injunction on the grounds of liel which um if you know anything about law that's that's that's not how it works liel very principle is absolutely there publish and be damned so story went ahead anyway >> it stops people following up the story right that's that's the reason I always think for those legal threats if it's someone small does a story they get this heavy-handed legal response and everyone else who might follow it up then like backs off a little bit. Well, there is an absolutely classic method which we've seen millions and millions of times with stories that we run in the rotten burers column which then local papers try to follow up uh and are told by you know the press office or for the council concerned or or wherever oh yes no that was very inaccurate and we're taking legal action against private eye and occasionally they will phone up phone us up and say are they and no we haven't heard a dicky bird from them at all but that that threat is enough um can I just ask Adam the press freedom uh people do they have anything to say about who owns the telegraph >> I just I've been so worried about it >> they did >> did they >> they well no what they did point out was that one of the problems with the UK media as far as they're concerned is that there are just three companies who dominate the market who are of course news UK reach and the Daily Mail and General Trust now actually that would have been even more of an issue because it looked for a while like the DMGT were going to take over the Telegraph as well but in fact we have now more plurality in the UK media so we're going to go up the 2027 index presumably because Axel Springer have come in from Germany and uh and taken over the telegraph. So yes, it was in there.

[00:29:44]>> So this is a win for press freedom, >> press diversity.

[00:29:48]>> Ah, yes. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Slightly different thing.

[00:29:50]>> Every time you've said Axel Spring, my brain has supplied Axel Foley, of course, the protagonist of Beverly Hills cop. Well, I'm choosing to believe that Eddie Murphy has taken over the Telegraph.

[00:29:59]>> That would be much more entertaining, wouldn't it?

[00:30:02]>> Certainly.

[00:30:03]>> That's interest because another thing we haven't mentioned is the BBC have just announced this huge cut of their own headcount. I mean, 2,000 people losing their jobs, about a tenth of the overall workforce there. That's that's going to have a substantial effect as well. You know, there are going to be a lot of lot of journalists on the jobs market basically.

[00:30:22]>> And there's no clear rationale for for why these journalists have been suddenly called um during an interim between director generals. And it may just be convenience, but uh there was no warning, there was no buildup, there was no narrative. It was just, yeah, we need the money now. We're not going to salami slice, which is the traditional BBC.

[00:30:43]We're just going to cut. The only thing offered was, "Well, we're uh the license fee. We're, you know, no one's paying it. We're not collecting it, right? I mean, there is a remedy for that." I mean, I get it. um attempting to lock up very very poor people for not paying their license fee doesn't look good. But arguing um as the government uh that um you have put this license fee in place because you believe it is worth it might be worth trying. Right.

[00:31:11]>> Do you know what I've never felt more proud of BBC than I don't know if I mentioned any but I've just been to the Galapicus. Um, sorry. Once again, I think that yeah, the BBC did loads of stuff I don't agree with, but actually no one is doing work of that quality and so much of it >> and and on the international uh spectrum as well, you know, there are now Starlink terminals being smuggled into Iran so that people can get the BBC World Service and the BBC Persian service >> because they are reaching a huge number of the adult population. And I think it's something that all of the BBC's trials and tribulations here don't really reflect is is what the BBC is still managing to do around the world.

[00:31:49]So I went to an event organized by Hostage International which um uh offers support to the families of those who've been kidnapped and and tries to sort of um make their life better in whatever they can do and offer help and advice.

[00:32:03]And this event was about the kidnapping of John McCarthy who was very famously um kidnapped by an Iranbacked group um in the Middle East. And he spent 5 years as a hostage. But he was talking and the number of references to the World Service um involved in his account and the other's account should have made everyone in the audience ashamed. um both for the hostages, you know, um they denied them radios. When the the Americans got a radio, John heard his friend talking about him. The first time in two years he had proof that anyone cared that he was still alive. But the effect on uh the warders, the jailers, uh the other people in the region listening, the idea that the BBC World Service is some um embarrassment. I mean, we've got aircraft carriers that don't work. Um, we've got a soft power radio station that works unbelievably well. We're going to cut that. I mean, it's extraordinary >> and very noticeably that has been noticed does work. So, what floods in to fill the gap is as you know, it is Russia today, it's Sputnik, it's those things that come to directly Kremlin funded propaganda outlets and you know, China has sim similar operations of kind of news going around worldwide. with the World Service being cut back here, >> Trump cutting funding for for NPR and the Voice of America and all those kind of things, you know, this stuff does matter.

[00:33:25]>> Yeah, tough times for all the people who are being funded by Victor Orban in Hungary like the people on the on the on the right very well aware that it is a good idea to fund friendly media organizations and then maybe yeah, Britain should say, well, we've got some values of our own actually and one of them is object this idea of objectivity which we aim for. Maybe we should fund that. Anyway, here concludes the party political broadcast in favor of the BBC.

[00:33:48]>> Is there any particularly uh good journalism that that could be highlighted at the moment? For instance, by looking at the uh at a long list on the uh the private eye website.

[00:33:56]>> Well, we'll be redoing our our very successful series of little interviews with people people.

[00:34:00]>> Yes. Once the short list is out, I'm going to be uh interviewing the short list and you'll hear it on this podcast channel.

[00:34:05]>> Great.

[00:34:06]>> I'm hearing a lot of pro-journalist propaganda here and I love it.

[00:34:10]>> I know. read Street of Shame next issue to find out how awful they all are as well.

[00:34:16]>> Now, having been so nice about journalists, >> we're going to be nice about you.

[00:34:20]>> No, we're going to be nice about parliamentarians, aren't we?

[00:34:23]>> We Yeah. I just thought it would be worth doing a little section about one of the bits of the British political system that works.

[00:34:32]>> Which bit is that, Andy?

[00:34:34]>> The camp is crosscharging pavement solutions.

[00:34:37]>> Don't even get me started. I go away on holiday for one week and the government makes a big announcement saying we're going to make this a permitted thing and look out for legislation coming later in the year. I'm gutted.

[00:34:46]>> I hear they're calling it Andy's law.

[00:34:49]>> It is a win though, Andy, isn't it?

[00:34:51]>> It's Well, let's I'm not going to get too excited. I'm keeping I'm keeping the um the cover on ice. But >> yeah, cuz if this government promises it's going to happen, boom, it happens.

[00:35:01]>> Exactly.

[00:35:03]And then there's a quick U-turn at the end of the cold attack and they come right back the other way. Look, it looks like it might happen. That's not what I wanted to talk about. But the bit that has been working and I think is worth highlighting is something I've been um trying to go along and look at, which is the um the transport select committee.

[00:35:20]So for those listening who don't know, there are all sorts of select committees on on major issues in British public life. They are made up of MPs whose job is to run investigations, look at the issues that are is their particular patch and eventually come up with a report and and recommendations. So I've been going to the transport select committee. They have uh one of their running investigations is called supercharging the electric vehicle transition about is it working, is it not? So they they take evidence >> and it just for anyone whose normal experience of politics is seeing the occasional snippet of prime minister's questions.

[00:35:58]>> It it is a completely different side of the experience and and so much more uh interesting and constructive you know.

[00:36:05]>> Oh I love a select committee. I mean do you remember some of the great select committees around the time of um the phone hacking for example? they were behind drama. Um Margaret Hodgej used to do I think the public accounts committee one of the one of the ones that scrutinizes finance and it was it was incendury sometimes and what you tend to do is yeah okay so there are some idiots who just sign up to them for whatever reason because they want a grand stand and there is a bit of this isn't so much a comment question as a comment which is the plague of public life but normally you get MPs who are genuinely enthused and interested and knowledgeable about a topic and they're getting in front of them people who are also enthused and interested and knowledgeable about the topic >> this is it and the the thing I found really interesting is the difference between the bit where it's the committee of MPs interviewing just sort of subject experts. You might get someone from a big charging company or you might get someone from a local council and say like what what are you concerned about or what's going well and then the political bit cuz on the in the last session you had uh the minister responsible who's uh Kia Ma and Pete who that you might recogn.

[00:37:07]>> Yes, >> he's 28. It's amazing. He's he's very young. Um he was very impressive, you know.

[00:37:14]>> He changed his name to Andy Ma soon because he obviously it's going to be quite anyway.

[00:37:19]>> Yeah. Um but that that slightly changed the the nature of it. But even then I mean this committee is mostly Labour MPs because most MPs are Labour MPs.

[00:37:29]>> Well, select committees are um the the membership is reflective of the the state of the parties in the house, isn't it?

[00:37:34]>> Reasonably proportional. You know, there there is a Tory there there were a couple of Lib Dems on this committee.

[00:37:39]But the the interesting thing was they they were not noticeably kinder to him because he was a minister in their party. I mean they like some of the toughest questions about whether this thing is working or not came from the other Labour MPs on the committee. There wasn't too much grandstanding or party dicks. one or two, but >> mostly it was very collaborative, you know.

[00:38:01]>> I mean, there are fun things about it like the first session I went to, 10 minutes of it was completely inaudible because uh Angela Rippen was running a dance class outside with the speaker of the house.

[00:38:13]>> Oh yeah, I saw the pictures of that.

[00:38:14]Yes, that was in Port Keller's house.

[00:38:16]>> It was in Port Color's House. What you didn't see was all the committee rooms around the center of Port Color's House where people were just saying, "Well, we don't know what's being said here and maybe maybe it's relevant, but We're not getting it.

[00:38:28]>> So, would you say the transport committees were better than the select committees that looked into the Mandlesson gate saga?

[00:38:36]>> Well, I I >> that was the foreign affairs select committee, wasn't it, which is chaired by Emily Thornbury, who really not very happy at not not being put into the cabinet at the last election and and and made that quite apparent.

[00:38:48]>> She was giving diva, I think it was the way to describe her.

[00:38:51]>> There was very little diva given on the transport select committee. Maybe when these things are a bit further from scrutiny, you know, they they're allowed to just get on with the job.

[00:38:59]>> No, cuz I I felt, you know, the Foreign Affairs Select Committee had identified some of the big problems such as Peter Manderson shouldn't have been appointed, you know, which I wouldn't have had a clue about unless they'd had at least 12 sessions.

[00:39:14]>> Are those helpful? Those that >> Well, that comment not very I'm sorry.

[00:39:19]We need to get back to travel. No, those those select committees where it's it's a big public thing or the all the phone hacking ones, are they doing a different thing?

[00:39:27]>> There is quite a lot of granding. I mean, famously Keith Faz when he was in charge of the home affairs committee was very into a celebrity guest. So, you would tend to get sort of um Russell Brand turning up back in the day and and pontificating for for several hours while Keith tried to get himself in the in in the camera frame as well. Uh so there is there are a lot of criticisms to be made at this process as well but there are in fact so many of these select committees that a lot of them still are doing a lot of good business.

[00:39:50]I would say just say while we're on this congratulatory thing slightly self- congratulatory I think Gavl Basher one of our parliamentary correspondents does an absolutely brilliant job of of not focusing on the chamber and and and prime minister's questions that kind of thing and getting along to a lot of these select committees and along to the house lords chamber as well which is another of the areas that's sort of overlooked and ignored by the the general daily coverage. Right. Because the lords, as far as I see it, they were the ones who really um ended the assisted dying bill. Absolutely. Right.

[00:40:14]They just ran into the sand into in lords consistently. But I think it is actually quite useful occasionally to restore your faith in democracy in the same way that every year I find that judging the poor for awards restores my faith in journalism because yes, there are a lot of show ponies who are very irritating and in everything and do much better in their careers than me, which is wrong and shouldn't be allowed, but also there are people who are doing like just unglamorous heavy lifting work. And that's what you see at the select committees too.

[00:40:40]>> Yes. And it does not get less glamorous, I can tell you, than maybe half an hour of questions about the electric vehicle excise duty, >> which you know that you've got to be interested to be >> presumably absolutely vital in the sense that we could be having a flood of cheap Chinese electric vehicles here and they are sort of essentially barred from coming over, right? Like >> Oh, they're not barred at all.

[00:40:58]>> They're not barred at all.

[00:40:59]>> No, no. The most tell us what's happening. Yeah.

[00:41:02]>> Oh, well, it's the one of the most revealing comments made was does the government have one foot on the accelerator and one foot on the brake?

[00:41:08]When it comes to this, you know, they've decreed that by 2030 all new cars have to be electric in some element, whether that's full electric or with a bit of hybrid. That's coming up quite soon. You know, it's coming up within a few years.

[00:41:20]Is the country ready for it? Are we ready for petrol taxes to drop off as people make the switch?

[00:41:26]>> There is a range of opinion on display in the committee. You know, experts are saying slightly different things depending on what they want. You know, someone who runs a big charge point company obviously wants more big charge points. Someone who's trying to represent electric vehicle drivers is saying, "Well, we just want to make it convenient. So maybe we just need, you know, to make home charging easier even if you don't have a driveway. All of this stuff."

[00:41:46]>> Yeah. that there is one MP on the committee who quite clearly has a big coach business because she only asks questions about electric coaches and whether you know coach tours are going to be able to electrify which I would say is not the main element of the committee but that's not it's not for me to say you know and the thing of whether it's paid for is a potential stumbling block by this EVED which is you're going to be charged 3p a mile to drive an electric car that's going to be done it seems like in quite a laborious way with having to take it in for anote declare your mileage get that checked. It sounds like FAF the way it's currently being pitched. The government's response is, well, we we think we have to replace petrol duty >> with something, which is true. We're giving lots of notice so people can get ready for it. And there are various projections about whether it will stop people going electric or not.

[00:42:35]>> All of these committee sessions were happening before the evidence has come in from the war in Iran, petrol suddenly becoming very unaffordable. So, it's quite hard to tell what what is going to happen next. Yeah. without that.

[00:42:46]>> Your feeling was that MPs were making themselves better informed. Yeah.

[00:42:51]>> And increasing the amount of information about this issue they had on hand, which does sound good.

[00:42:57]>> It's really good. Like 100%. You know, even even when there were opinions being given that I, you know, I disagreed with that the MPs are asking and drilling down into the details of all of it and, you know, trying to get to the bottom of it before they issue their report.

[00:43:09]>> We've got to get away from this drilling down metaphor.

[00:43:12]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:43:13]>> It's it's not helping.

[00:43:14]>> Charging up. I'm not sure.

[00:43:15]>> Yeah, they were really plugged in.

[00:43:16]>> They were plugged in. There we go. Yeah.

[00:43:19]Can't wait to read the report. I'll be staying up late, you know, on the night before.

[00:43:22]>> I can't wait to read your report on that report. Even private eye >> and so much more if I can stress that.

[00:43:31]Uh including the Paul Foot Awards short list and and so much else in the next issue of the magazine. Uh that will be out on newsstands soon. You can just buy it in your local shop or you can go to privateeney.co.uk UK and get a very reasonably priced subscription. That's it for this episode, though. We'll be back again in a Fortnite with another one. Until then, it's thanks to Helen, Adam, and Ian.

[00:43:52]Thanks to you for listening, and thanks to Matt Hill of Rethink Audio for producing. Bye for now.