John Swinney exit is 'INEVITABLE' over handling of Peter Murrell scandal

Added: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]Ben, just I mean obviously we we know that the order election has been gone.

[00:00:07]So the SNP don't have to worry about that in the immediate term. I mean they do have a couple of by-elections coming up as soon as next month, but just more broadly speaking how damaging do you think the events of this week as opposed to the you know the long running branch investigation, but specifically events of recent days how how damaging do you think this could be to the party?

[00:00:30]I [sighs] mean I'm not really the person to ask about the SNP. My my my view on them isn't exactly non-partisan, but in my opinion the reputation couldn't have been any lower. So it's kind of It's it's taken a reputation that was already in the mud and it's basically dug a pit, thrown it in, and chucked a lot of more mud on top of it. And yeah, very good point. The by-elections I suspect this is going to come up on the doors in Aberdeen South.

[00:01:07]The Tories will be rubbing their hands in glee cuz I think they can win that by-election.

[00:01:12]I think probably Angus and Broughty Ferry still too too kind of blinkered the electorate there to to to to get beyond this.

[00:01:21]Um >> [clears throat] >> It's it's it's it's disastrous, but you know the voted in they've got another five years. Well, to put it another way, do you think what what what will happen in this next five years and what they maybe don't have control over is the other scandal that I mentioned, the the the the Sturgeon v Salmond. Obviously we know that Alex Salmond's action civil action against the government is being taken forward by Paul McManus, the the the the millionaire former drummer from or drummer from Gunn.

[00:02:00]That's not going away either. That This could This could be the next one that that that follows Murrell. Um we've And and this isn't the end of it.

[00:02:13]We've got sentencing next month when there will be statements. There will be um We'll learn more about Murrell's state of mind. Yeah. And we'll we'll know more about the prosecution next Tuesday.

[00:02:26]There's a hearing on on June 2nd and then yeah, as you say, they'll we'll have sentencing on June 23rd when we'll get mitigation from the defense and I think that is something that the public, not just in Scotland but across the UK, but I mean there has been real interest in this story on on the the purchases, the items bought. Quite a lot of people are like, "But why?" So, maybe we'll find out something more then. I I I personally I think it's it's it's done for Swinney. I I I think I mean everyone expected that he wasn't going to see out this 5-year term.

[00:03:03]Um I think if if what's what what it's done it's made that, I would say, all but inevitable that we'll probably get to 2027 and John Swinney will be so damaged by this that he's going to have to step aside for someone who wasn't connected to the party during the Sturgeon and and and Murrell eras, who wasn't, you know, the deputy first minister, who wasn't the man who appointed Murrell as chief executive back in 2001, who who isn't a personal friend of of both the individuals at the heart of this. I I I think it's it's Swinney's epitaph.

[00:03:47]He's He's literally 3 weeks into his term as first minister and he's a you know, he's a dead man walking. He He's finished. He can't get an independence referendum.

[00:03:56]He had his big flagship vote yesterday, and literally no one paid it the slightest bit of attention. He He He He made it perfectly clear that only an SNP majority would give him a mandate. He hasn't got one. Suddenly, he's changed his tune. But no one's taking him seriously. Not a single person in Scotland is taking this seriously. He He He's done for. He It's now a question of when, not if, does John Swinney resign?

[00:04:22]Dan, is that probably your feeling? Has this been in a Probably in a way that you wouldn't have wanted, but in a weird way, has this been a good week for Stephen Flynn?

[00:04:31]Um Well, probably um might have been a good week for Stephen Flynn, but I do think Ben, you think you might be slightly jumping the gun there.

[00:04:39]I I I mean, who knows what's going to happen and I I think a lot It will depend a lot on how John Swinney now handles this going forward.

[00:04:49]Uh If he comes to a recognition that um that, you know, transparency um it is going to be needed to to sort this out, and I think I used phrase earlier, you know, sunlight is the best disinfectant. If he takes that approach, um I I I do think cuz obviously, he has spent the last uh however long it is since he came in, um to some extent, rebuilding the SNP's reputation to the extent that he was then able to win an election when it didn't look that likely a long time ago.

[00:05:17]Obviously, he is associated with the past. He is associated with Sturgeon. He is associated with Murrell. Um I I think his survival will depend on the extent to which he can he can continue the impression, which I do think it's the perception he has built that he is that he is different and separate from them, and that he's trying to move things on and or change things. Ben, you probably think I'm being overly optimistic for for Swinney there. I I do think, you know, it is only 3 weeks after the election, and you said that there's a lot more to happen first before we can see with any um you know with any certainty that that he's going to be soon but it's it's set I think it's set the seal on it. He did tell us in the email he plans to serve not only this five-year term but the next one as well as well. Maybe that's a bit more of a stretch now.