ELECTIONS SHOULD BE DECIDED BY CANADIANS, RIGHT?

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[00:00:07]Thank you, Minister. Uh, the bill goes some way towards closing what are significant loopholes that currently allow foreign sources of funding to be used by registered third parties for regulated pre-election and election activities. However, the bill provides for an exception whereby third parties can use their own funds if contributions constitute 10% or less of the third parties revenue in the year prior to the pre-election [snorts] period. This leaves or appears to leave the door open to foreign money being used by third parties for regulated activities. For example, it's unclear if contributions made in the years prior to the year prior to the pre-election period uh would be how those funds would be treated if they would be treated as melded as part of the third party's own funds and therefore funds that could be used uh for regulated activity. So uh given that why not simply close all loopholes with respect to foreign funding and require third parties without exception to set up a bank account with contributions coming exclusively from individual Canadians and permanent residents just like political parties.

[00:01:33]>> Thanks that uh good question. Um we followed pretty much to the letter of the chief electoral officer's advice uh on this issue and let's agree that um 10% does leave uh a a crack in the door.

[00:01:47]Um it was um uh quite frankly I think uh the chief electoral officer probably already all also struggled with this and that is that if you reduce it to zero you may be unfairly or unduly uh excluding some quite legitimately Canadian uh organizations indisputably Canadian organizations from participation. Uh but I think we can agree that um uh on the objective we want to squeeze foreign funds uh out of this third party regime. We have a third party regime in in terms of our elections uh and and financing that is already uh uh I would say a model um in the rest of the world and already quite quite stringent.

[00:02:36]I I just want to finish by saying open to this committee's uh consideration of that very matter and uh and look forward to your advice on it.

[00:02:43]>> Okay. Well, I I thank you for that, Minister. Uh and I would just say that uh you are right uh in terms of what the chief electoral officer did recommend in his report on the 2019 and 2021 uh elections. But I I would put it back to him and I I guess I would put it back to you as to what is so prohibitive about requiring a third party such as a corporation or a union or whatever that third party may be from simply setting up a a separate bank account and to solicit contributions from individual Canadians and PRs for the very specific purpose of engaging in regulated pre-election and election activities.

[00:03:27]>> I don't the answer to that is I don't think that's undo. It's a choice. Um um again I think we uh probably agree on the end objective. Um this in my view is a a detail that I would uh be happy to be guided by this committee's judgment after you after you consider alternative measures. I don't think um uh or I don't at least detect much uh difference uh between all parties on the end objective here which is to squeeze foreign funding um from third parties out of our uh out of our election uh scenarios.

[00:04:06]>> So I I take it from your answer that you're open to amendments.

[00:04:10]>> I'm open to the this committee's consideration of that matter for sure.

[00:04:14]>> Okay. Thank you. you on a different uh matter and I I guess I I would just say that I I do think these loopholes need to be closed to the extent that they exist and I believe they do exist because elections should be decided by Canadians free from foreign influence uh including foreign funds and uh it has been a real problem. It's not just a hypothetical problem. It is a real problem uh that has been exploited at present by third parties. Um but on a a different uh matter uh this committee undertook a study on the malicious activities of the so-called longest ballot committee. We produced a unanimous report with recommendations to curtail uh the longest ballot committee or other malicious actors from weaponizing the ballot and disrupting the democratic process in future elections and bi-elections. I I'm pleased to see that most of the committee's recommendations are incorporated into Bill C25. Uh, one recommendation, however, that has not been incorporated into the bill, uh, is that the Canada Elections Act be amended to provide for penalties when signatures are obtained on nomination papers before a candidate has been identified. Uh there was evidence that the longest ballot committee may have in some instances induced electors to sign nomination forms in which the candidates's name was blank only to fill in the candidates's name after the fact upon recruiting one of their fake candidates. Now the intent of the act is that a candidate must receive the endorsement of at least 100 electors in a writing to get onto the ballot. Yet signing a blank nomination signing a blank nomination form is clearly contrary to the spirit of the act. But yet this type of mischief can occur without penalty. Uh in my view an amendment should be brought to close this loophole. What are your thoughts?

[00:06:09]>> Very brief, Mr. McKinnon.

[00:06:10]>> Yeah. So, um uh [clears throat] clauses 4 and 52 very uh uh very uh quickly um uh provide uh an offense if someone knowingly provides false information.

[00:06:24]Otherwise, that is a violation. So, um I uh I think we could probably uh uh circle around and uh and compare notes on this cuz our view is that would be addressed by these sections.

[00:06:37]>> Perhaps tighten it.

[00:06:38]>> Yeah. Thank you. So, >> [music]