'IT'S A CANARD': Chris Cuomo GOES OFF On MAGA Goon's Medicare Lies

追加: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]So again, I come back to >> that's not waste, fraud, and abuse.

[00:00:02]>> Prosecute the fraud. That's not waste, fraud, and abuse. Just just finish one point here. Go ahead.

[00:00:07]>> Well, a lot of it is waste, fraud, and abuse. I think about 10% of that is waste, fraud, and abuse. If you look at I can tell you what I can tell you what two out of three of Chris Cuomo had magon VC Ramaswami on his NewsNation show. VC Ramaswami is running for governor of Ohio. The topic of their conversation was the current favorite buzz phrase from MAGA waste fraud and abuse in Medicare and Medicaid. We're going to take a look at clips from this discussion between Chris Cuomo and VC Ramaswami about this. I have thoughts that I want to share too. Let's get into this one together.

[00:00:46]Healthcare it's become a boogeyman in too many families cost structures and their nightmares in this country. Okay.

[00:00:56]It is a top priority for all of us. It's getting no attention. None. It's completely distracted from Congress isn't touching it. The president had talked a big game about bringing in the healthcare bigs. I thought it was a great idea. It never happened. But on the state level, you're seeing a lot of things happen. And there is an interesting push on the right that the key to change is waste, fraud, and abuse. I am very suspicious of that. Not that there's waste, fraud, and abuse. Of course there is. But that it's of an amount that is actually determinative of the outcome of the program, especially when it comes to something like Medicaid. Now, in the Ohio race for governor, healthc care is going to matter. They have big problems in that state. Okay. Vivik Ramaswami, you'll remember him from Doge, right? and helping with the Trump administration.

[00:01:43]He says he thinks that the answer to Medicaid is exactly what I'm discounting, which is waste, fraud, and abuse. If you take care of that, it's going to be billions in savings and it's going to save the program. It's going to give money back to Washington. It's going to be great. In a Wall Street Journal oped, Vive argues that states should be allowed to keep more of the money they recover from Medicaid fraud, giving governors and state agencies a real financial incentive to aggressively investigate and then prosecute abuse and then reinvest those savings back into healthcare. So let's discuss how this would work. Joining me now is gubernatorial candidate Vivik Ramaswami.

[00:02:15]Can you hear me?

[00:02:18]>> Yes, good to see you Chris. How you doing?

[00:02:20]>> All right, good. I know we have some comms issues. Let me know Vive if they're a problem. Uh let's just start uh with the optics on this. You they throw a quote around. I don't know the proper context. So I'll ask you. They quote you as saying that you believe Medicaid and Medicare were mistakes. Do you believe that?

[00:02:41]>> I reject the premise of the question, Chris. Those are talking points that came from an hour and a half long podcast I did with Ezra Klein. As you and I know, we have these long- form conversations that go into depth. And I think we need more politicians who step outside of their scripted talking points. For anybody who's interested in my views on this, listen to that hour and a half of my conversation with Ezra Klein. It was actually good. I I lean right, he leans left. We had a great conversation. But here's what I do believe and I know, Chris, is that Medicaid waste, fraud, and abuse is real. And I'm not saying it's the only step to bringing down healthcare expenses, but I am saying it is the most uncontroversial step that both Republicans and Democrats ought to be able to agree on.

[00:03:16]>> This would have been a pretty easy yes or no answer here for VC Ramos. And I wish that Chris Cuomo would have held his feet to the fire a little bit more here and said, you know, I don't want the filibuster. I just want yes or no.

[00:03:28]Was Medicare were Medicare and Medicaid mistakes. And even if you look at my home state of Ohio, you think about our Medicaid budget next year, it's looking like $47 billion. I think there's good evidence to suggest that up to 10% of that, it's a big number, about $4.7 billion can be attributed to at least illegal waste, fraud, and abuse or even forms of waste, fraud, and abuse that we would think about it in a colloquial sense. And my view is let's put that money back in your pockets to make healthcare more affordable in my state at a time when we need it. And let's change the incentives a little bit. let the state keep most of those savings because that's not what happens today.

[00:04:04]Today, most of the savings go to Washington DC. I say let's let states keep a majority of those savings and that creates the proper incentives whether you're a red state or in principle even a blue state to tackle this waste fraud and abuse to prosecute the bad guys. Take that money and use it to bring down co-pays, bring down health insurance premiums, pad those health savings accounts. That's common sense.

[00:04:25]And I do think Chris, in talking to people in my state, I don't care whether you're on the left or right. This should be common sense, but it takes an actual executive to execute rather than just somebody making a political pandering point. So, that's what I'm trying to do here.

[00:04:38]>> I get it and I get that you don't believe it's a mistake. It's about how it's run. But here, the job is to ask the question and have you answer. Uh, however, couple of concerns. Waste, fraud, and abuse is real. Anybody who says otherwise is pretending. However, um often waste fraud and abuse is a guise a canard to mask cutting of services. We've seen it many many times uh in many different states. And how do you reassure people especially in your state you have almost one in three, right? It's almost 30% of the state is affected by Medicaid in Ohio. Um that that's not what this is about.

[00:05:16]>> Yeah. Look, it's actually it's a fair point to raise, Chris. It's actually the opposite. The problem is we would risk running out of money if we don't ensure program integrity. So the only way to ensure the people who are actually supposed to be getting those payments, the single mother of three children in Appalachia, the father of five in Toledo working hard to put maybe two jobs even to put dinner on the dinner table, the disabled veteran. Think about the person who may be in between jobs, a college graduate who may not have yet landed that first job but soon will. People who temporarily need that hand up. In order to make sure the money is actually available to them, we have to prosecute the fraudsters. And we have good good evidence on this. I understand some of your skepticism. But if you look at the Paragon Health Institute, independent group with an assessment of 1.1 trillion in UN in in effectively ineligible or wrongful payments over the course of a decade, that's over a hundred billion on average per year. In Ohio, I'll give you a fact. Over that same decade, we've had enrollment in Medicaid only go up by about 100,000 from 2.9 million to 3 million. Yet over that same period, Medicaid spending ballooned from 27 billion to 47 billion. So that's not right. So again, I come back to that's not waste fraud and abuse.

[00:06:24]>> Prosecute the fraud wast just finish one point here.

[00:06:28]>> Go ahead.

[00:06:28]>> Well, a lot of it is waste fraud and abuse. I think about 10% of that is waste, fraud, and abuse. If you look at I can tell you what's I can tell you what two out of three examples that's what we're looking at. Yeah, >> I I got you. You're right about waste, fraud, and abuse. I'm not saying you're not nothing I should be saying should be taken to discount that you'd be better off if you can identify more of it and I think you should be able to keep the money. It's a great argument to make. Um because Medicaid gives you a little bit more leverage. Why? Because it's a partnership between federal and state.

[00:06:52]You guys have to put up a lot of your own money also. I'm with all of that.

[00:06:55]However, however, uh two out of three of the dollars that are responsible for the increase in your rates and not just Ohio, okay, I know it's true here in New York. Sure. the healthcare provider companies that they have vertally vertically integrated and they've taken control of all the different cost centers >> and Chris Cuomo is spot on here. This is what this is all about. So VC Ramaswami and the rest of MAGA the rest of these Republican goons this is just in the 80s with Reagan it was welfare queens was the term that they use now it's waste fraud and abuse which what waste fraud and abuse it means is you know those people which of course are minorities in most cases that VC Ramaswami and the rest of MAGA MAGA will be presenting you know they're doing fraudulent things they're not on the up and they don't really deserve this money, right? And Chris Cuomo is, you know, and and VC is admitting it's 10% of the problem.

[00:07:51]Nobody is saying, "Oh, yeah, we want there to be fra fraud. We want there to be waste and abuse." Nobody is saying that. But this is just like immigration.

[00:08:00]They're never going to go after the healthc care CEO who commits fraud like Rick Scott who was CEO of a health insurance company who had the largest settlement for fraud ever in the history of the country, Medicare and Medicaid fraud of $1.7 billion. Instead of going to prison, Rick Scott is now a member of Congress. It's the same thing with So they're never going to go after the CEOs like that and put them in prison.

[00:08:29]They're going to find somebody somewhere that, you know, went to the doctor too many times and they're going to say that's fraud. Some regular person instead of instead of some rich CEO scumbag like Ritz Rick Scott. Just like with immigration, they always go after the workers. You never see them perp walking a an owner of a large company using immigrants for labor, right? So that's all this is about. As Chris Cuomo said, it's a canard to say, you know, those people, and you know who we mean by those people, are scamming the system. So, we got to make cuts cuz that's the only way that we can have this for everybody else. If we don't don't make cuts to keep the scammers from stealing money, then there's not going to be money left for you. That's all this is about. If they really cared, they would be going after the other 99 uh the other 90% of the equation which Chris Cuomo is saying twothirds of that is the health providers. The their costs increasingly go up. But MAGA VC Ramosami, they're not going to go after them because they're their donors. Poor people aren't donors. And they charge you guys whatever they want to charge.

[00:09:42]and long-term care, elder care for the disabled and home AIDS. They have spiked all the pricing on it and you need help from the federal government and I thought the president was going to get involved in this. Then we got distracted.

[00:09:56]So, let me say a couple things, Chris.

[00:09:58]You're making some decent points. Let me separate two issues, though. First of all, on that one-third that is owed to waste, fraud, and abuse, let's at least uncontroversially agree that we should go after that and go after it aggressively. And the fact that in some circles, even in my state, even with my opponent, that that type of behavior is controversial is itself part of the problem. So, at least we should agree we should go after the waste, fraud, and abuse. There we're on the same page.

[00:10:17]>> I don't know who says don't go after I don't think it's a third. I think it's 10%. Oh, I don't think it's the only solution. I think it's 10%. I don't think it's a third. I think two% are the healthare companies.

[00:10:25]>> 10% is the number I gave you, right?

[00:10:27]>> First of all, that 10%, let's just start there. That's $4.7 billion. That's big dollars in Ohio.

[00:10:31]>> However, there are other things we need anyway. You raised a good point on the over bureaucratization of medicine, the overcorporatization of medicine.

[00:10:38]Medicine and the practice of medicine has become overcorporatized. My wife knows this. She's a physician who saves lives every day at the cancer hospital at Ohio State. And part of what caused this, I mean, this is a longer discussion than we have time for here, is actually Obamacare, which in many ways imposed a lot of administrative burdens, unforeseen consequences that created that vertical integration, that created a lot of that bureaucracy where >> Okay, VC, you don't like Obamacare.

[00:11:02]Obamacare kept all of the corporate health providers and the health insurance companies involved in this.

[00:11:09]Let's go to Medicare for all. You can cut out those health insurance companies. But of course, I'm sure VC Ramaswami is not in favor of that.

[00:11:16]Physicians are spending more time completing the paperwork than they are taking care of patients. Now, to solve that, we have more work to do. I want to move to valuebased care models. A healthare system, including Medicaid, that pays not just for volume of healthcare. That should be yesterday's model, but pays for actual positive outcomes delivered to patients. That's harder work. That's a longer conversation, and I'm up for taking it on as governor. But the first step, Chris, and this is just the easiest step we should start with, is take 10% of that $47 billion in Ohio, put that back in the pockets of hardworking families, including the Medicaid recipients for whom the program was intended. But also, Chris, it's not just Medicaid. See, when Medicaid fraud exists, even at a 10% level, that bids up pricing to increase prices for people on commercial health insurance plans, elder Ohioans on Medicare, and even those who are unable, they pay more too from artificial pressure on demand. So, to me, I I believe in I'm a pragmatist, right? I'm not a politician by background. I'm a business leader. I'm an entrepreneur. I believe in practical solutions. You're not going to solve all the world problems at once. Start with what you can solve and can solve quickly. And that's where prosecuting this fraud aggressively going hard, really increasing penalties, and giving the state the incentive to do it allows me to make this a top priority. In my first six months, I'll have four years as governor, but in the first 6 months, we can get this much done. And I think it can unite our state. It can bring down health care costs, bring more money to Ohio, and then we move on to those tougher healthcare challenges that you're also rightly bringing up.

[00:12:42]valuebased care models over just paying for volume and eventually debureaucratizing and decoratizing the practice of medicine by actually bringing down a lot of those administrative burdens that are downstream consequences of a lot of the federal overgrowth including through Obamacare. So that's the way I see things.

[00:12:57]>> But I like the fact that we're able to have a reasoned conversation about this.

[00:13:00]>> Yeah, you got it. Nothing matters as much as this. I mean, in terms of the people who are going to vote for you or against you, they care about this more than pretty much anything else that you can think of except their purchasing power, which is related to this as well.

[00:13:12]So, uh, good luck in the election.

[00:13:14]You're always welcome here to make the case. Good luck to you. Thanks for joining me tonight.

[00:13:18]>> Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.

[00:13:21]So one thing also that VC Ramaswami and the rest of MAGA is never going to say when they go on shows like Chris Cuomo and I'm glad that Chris Cuomo had this conversation and push back on VC Ramos Swami a little bit but is the savings for Medicare for all so this was just a quick Google search estimates for Medicare for all savings vary widely by studies but projections indicate Medicare for all could reduce total US healthcare spend spending by roughly 450 billion to 650 billion annually up to 2 trillion to 2 to 5 trillion over a decade. And one way that it would save money is administrative efficiency because Medicare for all doesn't have the high overheads that a health insurance system has. It says here the US currently spends over 800 billion on health insurance bureaucracy. says VC Ramaswami is talking about the that bureaucracy streamlining billing and eliminating private insurance intermediaries could save up to 600 billion a year. Also price negotiations Medicare for all the government could negotiate and standardize rates. But VVC Ramaswami and MAGA they do not want to do that. They want to keep the health insurance system intact again because the health insurance lobbyists have a lot of money and they give a lot of money to people like VC Ramaswami.

[00:14:50]That's the whole problem here. VC Ramaswami, Donald Trump, the rest of MAGA, they don't care about saving money. They want to make cuts to Medicare and Medicaid. And they want to do that by saying, "Look at all these moochers out here who are doing waste, fraud, and abuse." That's all that that this is about. And I'm glad that Chris Cuomo pushed back a little bit, but I would love to see more conversations like this. And I would like to see I don't really think Chris Cuomo believes in Medicare for all either, but I would like to see like a conversation, a debate between Bernie Sanders and VC Ramaswami. That would be really really interesting, but I doubt that's going to happen. Let me know in the comments what you think about all this. Are you on the side of VC Ramaswami that the problem here is waste, fraud, and abuse? Or are you on the side of me and my agreement with Chris Cuomo that it's all about health care costs which need to be brought down? Let me know in the comments what you think. Make sure to give me a like and subscribe. I am Chris on culture and I will see you in the next