The Future of Human Reproduction in Space | Dr. Egbert Edelbroek

[00:00:00]Welcome to Brilliant Brains of Space.

[00:00:03]Today's episode sits right at the edge of science [music] fiction and real-world innovation. We're diving into a question most of us have never [music] seriously considered, but one that could shape the future of humanity. Can humans reproduce beyond Earth? [music] Our guest is working on exactly that. Dr. Egbert Edelbroek is a researcher and CEO based [music] in the Netherlands focused on understanding human reproduction in space. His work brings together medicine, ethics, technology, [music] and long-term space exploration with a clear goal: making human life beyond Earth not just possible, but sustainable. From IVF [music] in microgravity to the bigger question of becoming a multi-planetary species, [music] his work challenges how we think about survival, science, and the future of our species.

[00:00:58]>> So, today's episode it sits right at the edge of science and real-world innovation. In fact, I should say for me it was science fiction because we are diving into a literal space where the question is, "Can humans reproduce beyond Earth?"

[00:01:16]Welcome to this very interesting episode of Brilliant Brains of Space, and let's welcome Okay, hold your breath. Let me pronounce it correctly. It's Egbert Edelbroek.

[00:01:29]Dr. Egbert, welcome.

[00:01:32]>> Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

[00:01:35]>> It's a pleasure, and I've got interesting questions lined up for you, but the first question is, "Did I pronounce correctly in pronouncing your name?"

[00:01:43]>> It was close enough, to be honest.

[00:01:46]>> Okay, to err is human, and uh let's start with the very interesting concept that as a doctor, you're working into space exploration and the question the big question that even the doctors on earth are still trying trying to figure out, you're trying to figure that out in the space. You're working on human reproduction in space.

[00:02:12]Help me understand. Why does this matter for people on earth today?

[00:02:17]>> Well, because there's there's indeed the long-term plans to to actually enable safe reproduction in space, but we want to have benefits for for improving quality of life on earth as well, which is improving fertility treatment.

[00:02:33]So, not all families, not all couples are naturally able to to start a family, to get children. They need some assistance from with with fertility treatment. Fertility rates are are are are decreasing worldwide. So, more and more couples need some assistance from IVF clinics to do, for example, in vitro fertilization, where the fertilization happens outside of the natural body and then embryos are reimplanted. But, that this sector cannot keep up with the growth in demand and the success rates are are not increasing so much anymore. So, this sector is is almost desperately looking for new approaches, new technologies to improve the success and the the unique environment of space is going to help with identifying beneficial molecules, biomarkers that will increase the success on earth. That's what we are doing to help improve the quality of life on earth.

[00:03:39]>> Well, that was actually my follow-up question that how it is going to solve the reproduction many questions which arise on earth, but you have already answered it. So, I will reframe my question. Help me understand that if humanity becomes multi-planetary, are there going to be more benefits of it?

[00:03:59]>> Uh well, the the process of becoming multi-planetary is is so full of challenges and usually with with the innovation and the pioneering of of mitigating all those challenges will also result in a lot of unexpected benefits, unexpected innovations. That in itself, if if you look at history, every every dollar that was invested in space exploration came back with $5 of of benefits just for Earth. Besides the the primary aim of of space exploration goals. So, this this can be expected as well if we uh continue with space exploration and reproduction in space. Besides the fact that big becoming multi-planetary is of course fueling our our need for yeah, expand our horizon.

[00:04:49]Um it it it will even increase biodiversity. It it will enrich our culture and and there will be so many new benefits uh besides like a plan B that hey, maybe there are some risks to to life on Earth.

[00:05:05]We may need a plan B, but there are so many side beneficial side effects to it.

[00:05:10]Um that that in itself is certainly worth it.

[00:05:15]>> Mhm. Okay. Now, before I ask the the the question of how the birth of space-born happened, I want to understand that um why or when was the moment that as a doctor you decided that you want to combine uh medical reproduction and space exploration?

[00:05:35]When was that amalgamation happened?

[00:05:37]>> I I I wish I had this this nice catchy one-liner that this was the very moment, this little lightbulb um went on in my head or something.

[00:05:47]Uh so, I don't have that exact moment, but I can I can explain the the context in in a nutshell. So, I choose to be a donor myself for an IVF clinic in the Netherlands. I'm so I'm a sperm donor.

[00:06:02]And in that role, I started learning more and more about those those technologies that they use in these labs, these embryo incubators and the like. And and while I was learning about these assisted reproductive technologies, I started wondering more and more if we might be able to re-engineer some of those technologies to make them work in space because I was aware that there is the the challenge of reproducing in space and it wasn't addressed by the space agencies.

[00:06:33]So, it's kind of crucial for humanity eventually.

[00:06:38]So, that's that's where it started. And and and I started having more discussions with with biomedical experts, IVF experts, space technology experts, and then it it became clear that no no one else is is addressing this for clear reasons. So, there is a reason to exist for some kind of project. So, that that's more or less how it started.

[00:07:02]>> Mhm.

[00:07:03]Okay, that's very hard work.

[00:07:05]So, let's talk about SpaceBorn United.

[00:07:08]See, this podcast and this channel is consumed by a lot of people who are from non-space industry. So, help us understand in very simple language that what what is or what are top three mission that your company SpaceBorn United is trying to solve.

[00:07:25]>> Yeah, so the main challenges for anything that is living if if you bring it to space will be there is a different gravity.

[00:07:34]Of course, if you're just orbiting the Earth like the International Space Station, you can see the astronauts there floating. There's microgravity.

[00:07:42]Um biological uh tissues are not developed not evolved to function well in this environment.

[00:07:50]So, that is one one challenge you have to to to mitigate, the the lack of gravity or the different gravity. And the second is radiation. On Earth, we are all protected by this 10 km layer of atmosphere that absorbs a lot of dangerous radiation. There is the the the Earth magnetosphere that is protecting us and and um if you're uh if you're going away from Earth, you're uh much less protected for this. So, dealing with radiation is the is the second main issue that that also we have to uh to address. So, um we built uh a a a a a mini a mini lab.

[00:08:32]So, like a small shoebox-size laboratory that functions automatically automatically without um uh astronauts uh interfering with it. And inside this mini lab, we uh let the female and the male cells, the sperms and the oocytes, meet each other. So, they will create embryos, and the embryos will develop for like a week in space, and then we bring them back to study them. And we have um uh this mini lab is operating inside a small capsule that can bring the embryos in the the the rocket will bring this capsule into space, and after a week uh the capsule itself can can return back to Earth.

[00:09:15]And and it has a big heat shield because going back through the atmosphere with these incredible speeds, that will cause all the friction and heat. So, it uh the embryos need to be protected for that heat. So, that's happening inside that capsule.

[00:09:30]Checking if I'm still answering your question.

[00:09:33]>> No, uh so you know what, coincidentally, that was my follow-up question. That um help us understand with some example that how the mission looks like or what are the challenges, but you have explained it that how you create a mini lab and then you know, the reproduction happens and then you research and then you observe and the analysis comes out that what are the challenges. Okay, anything something that you would like to add to it or I'm not able to frame a correct question, but something very interesting from recent of your missions that was the observation that can, you know, intrigue the humankind.

[00:10:09]>> Ooh, raising the bar.

[00:10:12]Um >> [laughter] >> Uh something that's intriguing Well, what what what might be intriguing is um in within a decade uh inside our mini lab we will create the very first human embryo in history in space. That never happened before. And if the embryos are healthy, if we examine them on Earth, we can the the whole goal is to to reimplant them in the in in the in the womb and then we will have the very first human baby in history that was not conceived on Earth, but in space. So, that's that's like a little step in human evolution. Many people label this.

[00:10:53]Maybe that is intriguing.

[00:10:55]>> Yes, that's indeed intriguing and you know what?

[00:10:58]That was actually my last question, but I will still keep that as my last question. Um here a very big question arises that now we are combining medicine, technology, space.

[00:11:10]Let's talk about the ethics also. What is that one difficult ethical question that you think humanity is going to face?

[00:11:18]>> Well, um exposing vulnerable uh organisms, even embryos to the hazards of space that might cause suffering. So, the ethics is is is is mostly about preventing suffering. So, you don't get It's not easy to get ethical approval to do uh this kind of experiments in space.

[00:11:41]And and we are just taking uh natural uh natural conception out of the equation.

[00:11:47]So, people having intercourse. But eventually, we want to enable uh safe uh intercourse in space as well.

[00:11:54]And and and and women being pregnant in space for the whole 9 months term.

[00:11:59]So, um and that's that's very uh delicate.

[00:12:03]That's extremely ethically delicate, of course, because you're that that includes um exposing uh a Yeah, an adult woman to the hazards of space. So, there needs to be a lot of things in place to guarantee uh the safety level that is even better than on Earth.

[00:12:22]So, that will be the main ethical issue to to Yeah, organize missions that will provide a very very high level on all aspects. And still, there will be some questions like, "Hey, the radiation is still a little bit different.

[00:12:39]Will that cause uh issues? Will that uh um It might create benefits. It might even unlock hidden human potential and and epigenetic triggers for the experts.

[00:12:52]But it could also uh mean harm. So, you want to you want to make sure there's as little harm as possible."

[00:12:58]>> Okay. So, on that note of lot of possibilities, um let's let's shift a bit, take a shift, and understand the series is called Brilliant Brains of Space. And there is a reason behind it. That because we also want to educate young people who are not from the space industry, and they think that the only option available to join the space industry is to become an astronaut. You being a doctor and combining making a marriage of um medicine and sports space exploration.

[00:13:29]Just just advise us that how young person who who is thriving to to make a career in space can do so. Some specific guidance.

[00:13:39]>> Um yeah, so maybe it's it's helpful to explain that I do not have a background in medicine. I do not have a background in in space technology or in in in ethics or in in things like this and still I'm the founder of a space company of a space life science company.

[00:13:58]>> [snorts] >> Um so it's it it's it's about having good ideas and finding the right people and combining it into a team that covers whatever challenges you're you're you're think you you can cover. So it's it's more about having the passion and the perseverance and the resilience to deal with setbacks that will be on every journey uh then the the the the the perfect education. That is a strategy that works, but it's not necessary to be You don't need a PhD in space systems engineering or or alike to to or or become an astronaut.

[00:14:36]Um becoming an astronaut is super unlikely.

[00:14:39]So I'm not sure if that's a realistic dream. That that even if you if you check all the boxes, you're still going to be uh selected from more than a thousand persons to be the best astronaut. So >> [snorts] >> hm there's so many other super interesting jobs in and around the space sector uh that have a much much higher chance of success. And again, companies select people more on personality on on on on persistence, on ambition, on passion on resilience than on just your exact education. So um be be willing to fail, be willing to to to to uh other tracks and and persist and yeah, believe in your dream and and and yeah, it's not going to be just a a romantic thing. There's going to be a lot of setbacks.

[00:15:33]But, persist and then you will you will get there one way or the other.

[00:15:38]>> Wonderful. Well, I just wanted to ask you that what are the skills needed, but you've already answered. So, I'm going to rephrase because you're answering ahead of my questions.

[00:15:48]>> Okay.

[00:15:48]>> In your journey in your uh professional journey, what is that one skill you think you would you would have earned earlier in your professional journey?

[00:15:58]>> I think there was courage.

[00:16:01]>> Ah.

[00:16:03]Nice.

[00:16:03]>> Uh it takes some courage to pioneer, to deal with the resistances that come naturally with with pioneering, doing something others are not doing yet or might not have the courage to do it. So, for myself, I I think and it was actually a personal goal to further expand my comfort zone.

[00:16:25]And now I can help humanity expand her comfort zone into space.

[00:16:30]>> Mhm. Right. Right. That's an interesting answer.

[00:16:33]All right. On that interesting note, let's do a quick this and that and it's going to be quite easy. I'll keep it very easy for you. So, you're working on a long-term survival of humanity.

[00:16:45]What keeps you personally motivated every day? This you can answer in brief um as per your choice.

[00:16:53]>> To inspire the next generation to dream big.

[00:16:57]>> Mhm.

[00:16:58]Okay.

[00:16:59]Um this I read on your extra notes.

[00:17:04]Living to 100 on Earth or being part of the first long-term space colony or in your case first baby being born in space.

[00:17:13]What what would you >> sorry, could you >> Okay. So, this this and that, the question is living 200 on Earth >> Oh, okay.

[00:17:22]>> or being part of the first long-term space colony or maybe in your case being part of of course the first baby being born in space.

[00:17:31]>> Yes, being part of the first baby born in space.

[00:17:34]>> Okay.

[00:17:35]Uh facing your fears, specifically spiders and crane flies or um actually I know the answer or teaching us the extreme life like fire spitting.

[00:17:46]>> Uh teaching fire spitting.

[00:17:49]>> [laughter] >> All right.

[00:17:51]Um writing another book on courage or leading a space a real space reproduction mission.

[00:17:59]>> Leading a real reproduction space mission.

[00:18:01]>> Yeah, because you've already done that and I know you are >> Practice what you preach is You do not Practice what you preach is usually more inspiring than just writing a book.

[00:18:10]>> Correct. Correct. Expanding your comfort zone on on Earth, okay, or expanding the comfort zone in space.

[00:18:19]>> Expanding the comfort zone in space.

[00:18:21]>> Okay. This one is for you.

[00:18:24]Strict global space reproduction laws or open innovation with fewer rules.

[00:18:29]>> Open innovation.

[00:18:31]>> Okay.

[00:18:33]Um focus on survival of humanity or quality of life in space colonies.

[00:18:42]>> Ooh.

[00:18:43]Oof. Um Mhm.

[00:18:47]Quality of life in space colonies because others are working on the other thing.

[00:18:52]>> Okay. I like the clarity of thoughts.

[00:18:55]This one is for you. First baby in space within like 10 years or waiting until it's 100% safe.

[00:19:02]>> 100% is impossible, so not waiting.

[00:19:06]>> Mhm. Right, 100% is impossible. And since we we we shall see a baby in space in like 10 years.

[00:19:14]Um what would you name them?

[00:19:17]>> Uh I want to make that a contest.

[00:19:20]It should [laughter] be what we are called SpaceBorn United, so we want to uniting all the regions and races and religions and what more.

[00:19:28]Um so that there will be a contest. Let your audience share their suggestions.

[00:19:35]>> All right. So everybody who is watching this very interesting episode in the series Brilliant Brains of Space, the question is now up to you. In another 10 years, make sure you leave your comment right now and come back after 10 years to see whether we have picked your name or not or you're part of the contest or not. And on that note, um do you own any space merchandise?

[00:20:01]>> Oh, uh not yet. Not yet. No. But but I can recommend thing Well, it's it's just a book. Becoming It's not just a book.

[00:20:08]It's It's becoming a New York Times bestseller. Becoming Martian. Yes. There there's a chapter about SpaceBorn United in it from Houston Professor Scott Solomon. He's a great guy and a a great book.

[00:20:22]>> Is that the same Is that the same book on which a movie is also about to release?

[00:20:28]>> Uh no, no, no. Not that I know.

[00:20:31]>> Okay. All right. On that note, first go for the recommendation that Egbert has given and second is that SpaceWorks also has their range of merchandise which are linked in the description that you can shop for.

[00:20:46]Egbert, thank you so much for that that interesting conversation and I was really excited to know more about this and your insights and your precise information is definitely something that I'm I'm going to cherish for a long time. Thank you so much for your time.

[00:21:03]>> Thank you for having me. It was great having this discussion.

[00:21:07]>> All you people who are watching and listening to this podcast, let me just tell you that we also have another series that's called Women of Space where we have interviewed interesting women from the space sector. Do not forget to watch or listen to that. And thank you so much and do not forget to subscribe to our channel.

[00:21:27]>> [music]