In legal proceedings, witness credibility is critically examined through detailed questioning that reveals inconsistencies in their accounts, as demonstrated by Officer Deborah Dev's testimony in the Karen Read trial where her inability to recall basic details about security monitors and her contradictory statements about events raised serious questions about the reliability of her testimony, illustrating how memory can be unreliable and how thorough cross-examination can expose potential fabrication or distortion of events.
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Squirrel School Homework from Ms Emily SeeAñadido:
[music] 2 3 [music] Let's get started.
[music] Hello.
How are you beautiful tubers doing today? I tell you what, I'm not used to the the short video intro deal.
This is not a pacifier. I just It looks horrible on stream. It's a ring pop.
It's a bunny ring pop.
Peeps.
Anyway, was it James driving again? You're always driving. Ain't that a band driving and crying? Why were they crying when they're driving? I don't think I understand that part.
They before my time. I don't know what time I have because I'm time's not real.
It's a weird anomaly of space.
T42, how you doing? Side eyes, what's going on? Wendy Marino, hey baby. How are you, Heather May? What is up? Hang on, guys. Hey, purple turtle rider. How are you doing?
Well, Turtle Rider, I'll tell you what, most my live streams, the ones I really like, I uh I sit here, I interact with the chat, ask me a question, I'll I'll answer it or we'll talk about it, and you'll get an idea of what it's usually like. But tonight, I actually have a plan because I have homework tonight from the Miss Emily C from last week.
She's going to drive. She's going to start crying. Um anyway, it's um DANIEL SPORTS HIGHLIGHTS. HOW YOU DOING? I'm so glad you said happy Tuesday, Daniel. I did get my trash out today. I did.
Everything's messed up, I feel like, on this camera. Look, I have it I have it fixed way. The size I like it, but it's like it's focusing.
What's it doing? Hang on here.
Did um I turn on Maybe it's just me.
Oh, wait a second. I know what it is.
Because the more visual, this is what I found out. The more visual effects show you put on, the more weird it gets. Oh, I shave too. I can't figure out who I am. Holy cow, I am tasty and bad. Let's just get finish saying hi nefarious shenanigans. How are you doing?
Hey Kristen, what is up? Which pops are my favorite? Those things that uh taste like uh orange creamsicle. I love those.
These are ring pops.
You know, like the little candy ring pop, but they're peaks. See? Ring pop peeps.
I did. I opened that upside down.
There you go.
Can't eat that. I have other candy to eat.
I know. I stopped eating sugar and here I am having way too much fun with it.
So anyway, um, Denise, how you doing?
I need to stop eating those. Let me put that one back.
I've been eating a lot of candy. I had a long day.
Long. Hey, Danielle, what is happening?
How you doing? You know, it's like five weeks. I see you.
Um, so I slept through it.
I got up when it was supposed to be raining and uh got some toast. Ate the toast, went back to bed. You guys ever wake up, you got a little hunger pain.
He's just like, I'm eat some toast.
Despite the look on my face. Well, that's um The Mandalorian without his mask.
How you doing, man? Vision, how are you?
Uh Nikki Pooh Bat Gorano putting the poo in the boo.
Nikki, what is happening? Do you think Batman poos upside down?
You think that's a thing? Yes, I still have Australian snacks. I have not.
Well, I take that back. I have Did you know there were um Sour Patch Kids in there? Cream me Sour Patch Kids.
A U Chupacabra came and and got those took them. Candy is good for the soul. I agree. been trying to stay off weight because I cannot do anything but gain weight since uh I was my mom passed away. I've gained 30 pounds and I try to eat less and less and less and try to eat just protein and cut back all the sugars and the carbs and stuff. It's not working at all and it's a it's sealis in my brain or whatever. People tell me I've got a problem. Courtney, hey, I saw your email and I replied to you. You have the worst headache. Is that be Oh, wait. No, you live in Florida. You guys have storms every day.
Courtney, I love that you come you have a headache and you come over here to me.
It's usually I'm the cause of headaches.
Yes. A dingo. A dingo. That's what I meant to say. It was a dingo came and ate the sour patch kids. That's what happened.
Well, what do you know? What?
Do you know who I'm named after?
Curry trial one and two. No, I don't.
And you know why? I blame Emily for that. I blame Emily for that.
Oh my gosh.
Love you, Courtney.
I really do. I can't wait to uh stream with you.
All right, I hope I can hear. Last night, my uh earpods were not connecting and cuz I was going to sleep listening to something and wait. Yeah, you have to eat in order to lose weight.
It's weird. I'm not I don't like anything. A Roo hopped away with your Sour Patch Kids. Probably put in their little sack, a little steely sack.
That's what they do. They put little stolen things in there. That's where they keep their eggs.
Oh, I don't like meds. What can we do about migraines? We got to figure that one out. Have you asked uh the Gro Rock Groot thingy? I shaved and this dude does not have my lip right.
Why is the camera Hello camera focus?
Streamyards.
Streamyard. Streamyard. Streamards. On my end, it's messed up on the other end.
It should look okay. It should look Yeah. Oh my gosh, this looks so much better on YouTube than it does on StreamYard. Holy cow.
I'm going to start I'm going to end the stream and watch myself.
[gasps] All right, listen. Uh we are going to do Feels like there's a lag. I just handled the migraine. No medicine. My wife uh gets migraines every once in a while and I hate that for her. Uh I've had oh oh I'm not going to say hey 80 man what's going on.
Uh I never really had the the migraine like people talk about. And then uh when I had the uh the Danish flu, we'll call it that for now on.
I my head hurt so bad. I was taking um Nyquil and ambient to try to sleep cuz I was like I just want I just want to sleep through it. And I was I couldn't get into the coma I wanted to. And I've been in a coma before. I don't want to be in a coma again.
So everything's real in a coma. Do you know that?
Anyway, uh all right. So I don't know how my screen's going to do. I just realized I want to share something else with you guys. I want to start something off here. Very cool. So Emily put this up after the stream. She was right on top of it. Uh, she's amazing. She is um amazing and still don't know if she's ever gonna talk to me again because I'm like, well, you have talent and all this other stuff. What are you doing waste your time with me? Um, oh yeah, speaking of that, so uh the um migraine thing. I had a friend of mine in high school and he would get migraines and his advice was to this what was told to him was to go into a closet and put a cold banana on your forehead.
And I just realized when this is the first time I've ever said those words out loud. And I just realized that going into a closet with a banana sounds like that man went to high school on the West Coast.
I don't know what kind of doctor he went to. He went to a proctologist for his headaches. [laughter] Go into banana. Put a cold uh cold banana take. Never mind. I'm just going to stop. I'm just going to stop. Oh, is that supposed to be it? Well, what I just told you like I've always thought about that and I was like I think I've told people that she has advice for a different problem. [laughter] Oh gosh. Yes. CCR looking out my back door. Uh I think that's what I think that's what happened here. Hang on.
Nurse, could you leave the room? Give the patient the gold banana. Um Oh, that sounds so bad. I'm not this way, y'all.
I swear I'm not this way. I blame other people for influencing me lately. Um, I say influencing me like I've learned a lot of words that I didn't know about.
Don't Google things that um, let me ask you about no one waste their time. Are you expert? Yeah, I don't I wouldn't I would be over here.
I will not comment on bananas. You do not want the You do not want the cold banana on your head.
You'll never get a plantain.
Oh my gosh. Yeah, I'm blaming the peeps.
Okay, let me just go ahead and excuse myself out of here, guys. I want So, uh, the first thing was a song. We're going to skip the song. It was a great song. I think you guys saw it. If you watched the stream last Thursday, you saw the song I want to share.
Do you guys like poetry? Do you like poetry and pros?
Here we go. We got a little I don't know what really is happening here.
Okay. I don't really know. But what we got here? We got a little poem time. and canon.
>> No matter the weather, no matter the pain, the kick always starts the game.
The team must run it back as far as they can while the opposing team tries to defend.
Pass or run. You don't want to finish last. Four 15 minutee quarters to decide the winner. Practice is the key to a successful team. Playoffs is where they want to be. The loser goes home empty-handed and the winner moves on with the Super Bowl in view. the fuel take home the glory and that's the end of the story. [laughter] >> You're a bitch, bro.
>> Fuck you.
>> Yeah, fuck you, you pussy.
>> Yeah, >> is this part of it?
>> Stink cold, boy. You be knocked out. KO.
[music] Am >> I supposed to be able to play this? Is this copyright music? Is this real? Oh, no. This isn't real music, is it?
Why is this homework? I don't like like this anymore. I don't want to do this.
I'll take a I think I've done enough homework to get a C. We're gonna just see that right on out of here. Is that a fake background? Is that a fake puppy?
I don't know what's happening. I like the blue lives matters um thing. What's that called? Bracelet.
He lost the he forgot the the questions at the end or the poem at the end.
This is the homework that you could have you could have done on your own. It was there all week.
I didn't know that was the one with the song.
Where are the others?
Oh, here they are. I showed my cake to my wife. I think she took it.
I have marshmallow gummies.
Hello.
Hello.
That was not the best poetry I've ever heard. Have you ever heard of Dr. Did somebody not read Dr. Siss to you when you were a child?
Fridge maker, how you doing?
Oh gosh.
I didn't see.
You're not supposed to see this.
Is that music? Is that bad music?
Please don't do that voice.
The poetry melts my heart.
Well, here's what we're going to do.
We're going to do a micro dots now.
I wrote too much candy.
>> [snorts] >> You know what? It helps to look at the the flavor before you put it in your mouth.
[laughter] Emily, I'm going to do a poetry for uh Thursday. Hickory dickory dock.
Proctor's on the clock.
That's my first line. I'm still working on it. That's all that came in my mind right now. Speaking of Dr. Seuss, maybe sometimes I'll show you all the books. I know all the words, too. No, wait a second. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. I got to get out of this frame. This frame.
Oh, I don't like that one. That was way too There we go. I worked for a long time to get this right because the stupid things all messed up. Anyway, you cannot know all the words to Dr. Seuss. Like I went back into reading Dr. Seuss this past year and I did not realize how difficult Dr. Seuss can be. Those words are big, bigger than you or me.
I love Dr. Seuss though. Um, but no, it's just it was you cannot I believe it's called idllic memory.
I'm really glad you went with clock.
Proctor doesn't know how to use a clock.
Isn't that what he he wasn't he supposed to be on the clock though that night?
Ain't that right?
Ain't that part of what did I not learn that? What's happening? I don't know.
All right, let's go to the next one.
Guys, this is going to be a micro dots thing here. Thank you, Micro Dots and Micro Dots. If if you if you are not subscribed to Micro Dots, I will. They have incredible work. Um, people that do the the type of uh videos that they do are so offthe-wall intelligent. I mean, I can't sit through long enough to even figure out how to code, you know? I mean, so these what they do is just amazing.
The rooms don't Fuck sock.
Proctor's no jock.
The Chinese don't own Tik Tok.
Wait, I'm making sentences now. All right.
Stop it, you nut. Yeah, that's the problem with squirrels is that they eat a lot of nuts.
All right, let's see here. You guys want to see what my algorithm is? Oh, wow.
Look at all this stuff here.
The Wasp CO2 injector knife. The deadliest. Oh, that's part of the CIA stuff. Oh, there's new um uh microphones. Apple wallet's got new stuff. There's a high risk uh oh dinner with the king and queen of the United States. No, that's trolling. Um huge tornado risk and stuff. If you're in the Texas area, please be safe. you knows that Zach is not here, which is a good thing because uh obviously our um I forget her name, common investigator, girl, whatever. She she does not know my name. I want to rock. Yes. Yes. I love Twisted Sister.
They were like kiss but pretty. That was their makeup style.
I want to be like kiss but pretty. Which is kind of weird when you think about it. That's kind of weird that I said I love that. But um you're going to write a limmerick. Awesome. We'll share them.
Amy, how you doing? Amy, we've just been doing Dr. Seuss. You haven't missed anything. Let me get over here to Oh, actually, let me get over here and get this out of the way. That's cool, man.
Well, that's Kentucky Ballistics. That guy, I feel bad for him. Yeah, but I don't feel bad for him. It was a couple years ago. He had a bad accident and he's just a good old boy from Kentucky.
Officer Kelly De was sworn in as a Boston police officer not long after officer John O'Keefe was murdered. It was a major milestone in her career and at that moment her future in law enforcement seemed bright. However, she had previously seen something that made her a crucial defense witness in the Karen Reed case.
>> Setting up a chain of thrust her into the global spotlight, shatter her credibility and turn her entire world upside down. Some see her as a victim in a difficult position between powerful forces. Others view her as a liar, undeserving of any sympathy.
The question we'll explore today is simple. Should we feel sorry for her?
>> Kelly De, last name D E V E R.
>> That's how you spell fever. And so I think it's Kelly fever blister cuz that rhymes, doesn't it? Are we doing rhymes tonight?
The No, it's the DE fever blister.
You got a DE blister.
That's what it is.
The first time you were ever interviewed in connection with anything having to do with this case or this investigation uh related to the death of John O'Keefe was by a separate law enforcement agency, not the Massachusetts State Police, not the Canton Police Department. Correct.
>> Yes.
>> How long had you known and been familiar with Brian Higgins, say for instance by sight, >> to be able to recognize who he was?
Sometime during 2020 is when I was probably first familiarized with him.
>> Who's Kenneth Burkwitz?
>> He was the chief of the Canton police.
>> Obviously very familiar with him. He was your boss, correct?
>> Yes.
>> Does the dispatch area also monitors of internal uh security camera footage?
I know there was camera screens, but I don't know if they were on TVs or computers or where in dispatch they were. I don't recollect where they were or how they would be accessed. They were in the room somewhere. I can't be more specific. I don't remember.
>> What Officer De appears to be doing here is distancing herself from the security monitors. If she claims she can't even remember where they were located, how could she possibly have seen Higgins and Burkowitz on them? The reality though is that those monitors were almost certainly positioned within view of the desk. So the officer working there could easily keep an eye on them.
>> But you do recall seeing that there were monitors that were showing different views of internal security camera footage of Canton PD. Correct.
>> The specifics? No. Were there? Yes.
>> I don't know what you mean by specifics.
I'm asking you, were there monitors that you could look at that showed security camera footage from inside Kent PD?
Different areas, hallways, corridors, offices, the Sallyport, for instance.
>> So, >> Sally Port, >> two and a half years since I >> You keep saying two and a half years later.
>> So, let let her finish her answer and then ask a question.
>> Sure. It's been years since I've been in that room. They were somewhere in the room. Where cameras were in the Canton Police Department, I don't recall. The media's provided me information since this case took place and I can't speak on what's my recollection and what's been media provided. There are cameras.
I don't know where on my memory where they are.
>> So, has the media >> that feels like she sat Man, that feels like she sat in front of a mirror saying that.
informed you that there were internal uh security monitors at the dispatch location.
>> So, the objections sustained. Next question.
>> Jackson exposes a critical flaw in Dev's story. Her alibi that relentless media coverage led her to form a false memory crumbles under scrutiny.
>> While the Sallyport footage has indeed been widely aired, the actual placement of the monitors inside the dispatch center has not. That's a serious problem for Deborah. As Jackson points out in his letter, she described these monitors in vivid detail to the FBI. Details she's conveniently forgotten once [clears throat] under oath. Jackson digs deeper into this point.
>> What do you recall from the dispatch uh room as you put it? What do you recall being there in terms of monitors?
I remember there was a computer screen that had >> purple turtle >> information about current calls and then there was a 911 screen next to that.
Those are the two computers that I would been positioned in front of during this time.
>> All of the cooperation Deborah once showed to federal agents has now turned into open disdain for Alan Jackson and clear frustration at having to testify under oath. For Jackson, her testimony is all the more implausible given that he's read the complete FBI interview transcripts, records that reveal just how much she previously volunteered and in such granular detail. But today, she's reluctant to say anything that may help the defense. Almost as if it's a different person completely.
>> Had you ever been in a Sallyport at KPD?
>> Yes.
>> What's the Sally Port?
>> A Sallyport is a garage essentially.
>> Okay. Uh, you aware that the Sally Port garage had a camera, a security camera?
>> It would make sense because that's where we bring prisoners to drop them off.
>> Well, more than just make sense, I'm asking you. Do you recall that it had cameras that service >> Wait a second. Wait a second. Hold on.
So, a second ago, she couldn't remember about if she had ever looked at the cameras. And then now she's saying that the cameras would make sense because that's where you drop off prisoners.
That means that someone's constantly looking at that um uh camera. when like when people are coming in, they call on in, they say, "Hey, you know, I'm bringing um I almost said patient, a um inmate, um you know, blah blah blah, whatever." You know, the cop words, right?
And someone's watching that camera because you want to you have to I mean that's it is literally a security camera because it is security and you want to I mean somebody I don't know I'm just I right now I feel like I want to answer. Did you just say that you didn't remember watching the cameras or seeing the cameras or whatnot and then aren't they like always watched? Aren't you always glancing at them?
She make a good girlfriend or Jimmy Campbell. Oh, like Sarah Silverman. Oh, yeah. Oh. Oh, The Way of the Gun. If you've ever seen that movie, the the intro to that, it's the best there Silverman's ever done.
The Sal Garage Security.
It's where we brought prisoners. So, there would be cameras. Yes.
>> Okay. You're saying there would be cameras. I'm asking you, were there cameras?
>> According to the media, yes, I've seen the footage, so yes, there were cameras.
>> Officer Deod giving a straight answer three times. Fully aware that Jackson is steering the questioning into territory she desperately wants to avoid. She implies almost dismissively that of course the Sallyport has cameras. But by that logic, you'd also expect those cameras to actually function, which we know they did not.
>> All right. So, hold on. So, I'm going to strike that officer. Um, >> you have to answer the question based on your own independent.
>> Okay.
>> She is dreading what she knows is now inable. Being limited to answering questions based solely on her own recollections puts her on a direct collision course with revealing her alibi. Exposing that she's constructed an entirely false memory. Something that she was hoping to avoid getting into if at all possible.
>> And [clears throat] if you don't have them, tell us. But you you can't reference what you know from the movie.
>> All right. Um, there were cameras in the Sally board.
>> Thank you.
Oh my gosh. Like, wait a second here.
Wait a second. So, like, she just can't tell the truth. Is this another person?
What's in the water in Massachusetts?
I mean, how do you how do you come up with lies? What makes you sit there and think, I'm going to come up with a lie today, and then that lie is this lie, and at least this lie, at least this lie, and yes, I'm ready to go. Got my lipstick on. I mean, is this what happens?
Is this >> Mr. De, do you want to be here today?
>> I have no relation to this case. So, >> I didn't ask you that. I asked you if you want to be here today.
>> Objection. This isn't direct.
>> Hank Brennan objects, stating, "This isn't direct. a small preview of the way he would have handled Michael Proctor if he was called by the defense and the judge enforces the objection.
>> So, it's your witness.
>> She can.
>> No comments, just questions. Not I understand that.
>> Do you want to be here today?
>> I am put on the stand.
>> Wait a second. What did she just say?
What did Cario say?
>> Do you want to be here today? No.
>> So, >> I asked you that. I asked if you want to be here today.
>> Objection. This isn't direct.
>> Hank Brennan objects, stating, "This isn't direct." A small preview of the way he would have handled Michael Proctor if he was called by the defense.
And the judge enforces the objection.
>> So, it's your witness.
>> She can.
>> No comments, just questions. Not I understand that.
>> Do you want to be Isn't that how you communicate? Isn't that a correct thing?
I mean, I just I instead of saying I understand that, I said yes, ma'am.
And then I would get I'd been hit with no comments.
And that a central part of communication that you do understand was that one person's communicating to the other.
I don't think that's being a I don't think that's being snide. I don't think that's being disrespectful to a judge or anything. I think that's a a basis of of human communication.
I do not I'm going to say my opinions >> here today.
>> I am put on the stand in a murder trial.
I don't know why I'm here. I have no connection to this case.
>> You have no idea why you're here?
>> You've never talked to me. Nobody on the fence seems talked to me since prior to the first trial. So, I don't have any idea why I'm here.
No clue whatsoever as you sit here why you might have been called to stand.
>> No.
>> Are you uncomfortable testifying?
>> No. It's part of my job.
>> You're a professional police officer.
Correct.
>> Correct.
>> That means you're a professional witness to certainly. Correct.
>> In the crimes that I've gone on the stand before. Yes, I have been.
>> And you understand the oath?
>> Yes, I do.
>> What is that oath?
>> The oath is to tell the truth. Did one of the monitors that you looked at that you had access to at the dispatch area, did it show the video footage or the video feed from the Sallyport garage?
So, I already said I don't remember where in dispatch the screen with the cameras was. There was a camera in this alleyport.
So if I'm going to make make the assumption then yes of course but now that's an assumption.
>> I'm not asking you for an assumption now I'm asking you did one of the keys now we've talked about the camera the other side of the camera is the feet.
Do you recall whether or not there was footage that you could see on a monitor in the dispatch area that showed the sound I'm going to go with yes.
>> Okay, >> that clarification.
>> How long? So, >> I'm going to go with So, what do you mean you're going to go with yes? Is your answer yes?
Why is this?
>> Thank you. Um, >> what is that? What just happened?
>> What just happened?
What just happened?
>> Uh, did you take over the dispatch desk that morning?
>> Immediately following when the 911 call came in >> would have been 6ish in the morning. Is that Does that sound about right?
>> Answer. Yes.
>> I'm Hang on. I'm rewinding it. I'm rewinding it.
We need Hang on a second. We're going to do this.
>> Yes.
>> Thank you. Um, >> holy cow.
21 seconds.
21 seconds. That she had to think how she get out of that. I'm assuming. I mean, I don't know what else she's thinking about.
I mean, make this make sense.
Fever Daver beaver believer 21 seconds.
>> What time about uh did you take over the dispatch desk that morning?
>> Immediately following when the 911 call came in >> would have been 6ish in the morning. Is that does that sound about right?
I don't sometime I would say towards the later of my shift but it was the middle of winter and dark out so I don't know if it was four five six >> understood but it was still dark out >> yes >> once you took over the dispatch desk did you stay there even past your normal shift ending to support the investigation that was ongoing >> not to support the investigation I was just on overtime >> okay so you stayed past your normal end time of your shift that day Yes. On [snorts] overtime, >> you stayed into the afternoon. Correct.
>> I believe the shift ended at 3:45 p.m.
for the Canton police.
>> Officer DeA clearly isn't sure what time she left that day. She's provided no evidence of it. She just claimed she believes the shift generally ends at 3:45 for the department. That may well be true, >> but it doesn't prove that she personally left at that time. She seems to be basing her entire claim about when she left on what time the shift normally ends. not a very strong foundation to bet her entire credibility on. With so many officers inside the Sallyport when Karen's vehicle arrived, it's entirely plausible she was asked to stay later into the evening to help cover the desk, especially considering it was the day of a snowstorm. Furthermore, if we're to believe she's susceptible to creating false memories, then how can we trust any of her recollections? She's made her word utterly worthless, the equivalent of someone lost in delusion. Except in her case, the delusions are embedded in her memories, not in her present reality. The after effects of this story on her career as a police officer is something she clearly didn't consider.
>> Did you stay past your ending shift time >> for my regular shift? Yes, because I was on overtime on the day shift.
>> Did you observe anything unusual that stood out in your mind that occurred, [clears throat] pardon me, in the Sally port while you were on that ship?
So, we've discussed this previously. Um, I can't make that statement on the stand because I've been provided information released by the defense that it was not a memory that it was a distorted memory.
Therefore, I can't state it because at this point, it would be a lie.
>> This is the exact moment officer Dev destroyed her own career.
>> I cannot make that statement that you're wanting me to make on the stand because I've advised that that would be a lie.
A distorted memory, which is a new one.
I don't think that's not my normal nomenclature, right? But like a distorted memory and a lie are two totally different things. I would presume a lie is you have the intent to deceive. I'm saying words that to to mislead you. I'm intentionally doing this. I don't want you to believe what actually happened. I don't want you to believe this. I want you to believe the words that are coming out of my mouth even though they're not true. They're not I mean they're just words. They're they're words salad.
The stored memory is like Yeah. You remember that time we're playing baseball and like uh I don't know, you know, it's you don't have the Okay, this happens to me. I can't remember who like sometimes I'll tell a story to somebody and there's and they'll say to me, "Yeah, I was there." I was like, "Oh, you were?
Well, I bet you had a good time."
Because I I I forget. You know, it's like that's a distorted memory. I'm not telling a lie. I'm telling exactly what happened. I just forgot that that person was there and I'm telling them the truth. They're like, "Yes, I know all these things. All the words are coming out of your mouth because I was there to witness all this." That's a story memory. But a lie is like, "Hey, I'm worth a billion dollars."
This is chocolate pudding peep. That's not a lie or distorted memory.
Delicious.
>> Miss Ever, I've never asked you to make a statement one way or the other on the stand. I'm asking you an open-ended question.
>> Okay.
>> Did you prior?
>> Let me ask a question.
>> Did you observe something in the Sallyport garage on January 29th, 2022 that you found unusual? It stuck out in your mind >> given factual information.
That makes it so I know I did not. No.
>> So the answer is no.
>> Correct.
>> Do you remember being interviewed on August 9th, 2023?
>> I do.
>> That was by a separate law enforcement agency. Correct.
>> Yes.
>> Two separate law enforcement agents. Is that right?
>> Yes.
>> And you were advised during the course of that interview on August 29th of something. Correct.
>> Can you rephrase?
>> I'm sorry. August 9th.
So, what was I advised of? Can you rephrase that?
>> Sure. Were you advised that lying to those uh those officers would be a crime?
>> So, it was a willing conversation. I've spoken with their legal team because of the fact I was providing factual information that showed a statement of mine was a false memory. It was not a lie. Therefore, I made it in good faith and I retracted given information that it could not be accurate.
>> Mr. Z, did you understand my question?
>> Yes, I did. You threatened to charge me with perjury during our phone call prior to the first trial if I didn't lie on the stand right now.
>> I'm telling you I did not see anything factually. I've been provided evidence by a >> I thought they weren't allowed to talk about it.
>> Miss De was this. Were you advised that it was a crime to lie to those >> green enough? How you doing?
>> Yes or no?
>> No.
>> They never told you. They never admonished you that it would be a crime to lie to them. Did they advise you anything? any consequences of lying to them.
>> So, we had a willing conversation.
>> I don't recall.
>> Okay, there's your answer.
>> You don't recall if they advised you of anything?
>> No, cuz it wasn't.
>> How can she say how can the judge say that's your answer?
>> Go ahead and ask a question. Um, but both of you only one at a time. Okay.
As a trained law enforcement officer, are you aware that it's a crime to lie to certain other law enforcement agents?
>> When you have intent to lie? Yes.
>> Okay. So, you knew that when you spoke to these law enforcement officers, correct?
>> Yes.
>> Did you tell these law enforcement officers that you in fact saw Brian Higgins and Chief Burkowitz go into the Sally Court with the SUV?
finish the question.
>> He can finish this question. Go ahead.
>> Did you tell those law enforcement agents on August 9th, 2023 >> that you saw Brian Higgins and Chief Burkowitz go into the Sally Court together and alone with the SUV for a wildly long time.
>> That was my recollection at the time.
>> There's a clear pattern with many of the Commonwealth's witnesses in this case.
When first interviewed by the FBI, they tell one version by fear of federal consequences. But once that fear fades, they change their stories for this venue where they feel much safer under Judge Canon and the Commonwealth. That's because perjury charges would have to come from Norfolk DA Michael Morrisy. And he's not about to charge anyone who's bolstered his case. That's likely why so many of their key witnesses have felt free to lie over both trials.
>> So you did say that >> at the time. And that is what I recollected.
>> Okay.
>> There's another major flaw in Dev's claim that the media somehow planted this memory in her mind. The Sallyport footage is missing 42 minutes.
The clip is only a few minutes long and it's unclear who is present. It could never have created the impression that Higgins and Burkowitz were doing something for an unusually long time.
Furthermore, Higgins doesn't appear in either of the Sallyport videos entered into evidence. But there's an even bigger issue with her alibi that allows us to comp.
Let me get out of the way.
>> There's 42 minutes of missing footage.
Hey Miami, how you doing?
42 minutes of missing footage. Okay, so hang on a second. This driving me nuts.
Nope. Nope.
No. Sorry.
I'm messing this thing. Sorry. 42 minutes of missing footage.
Holy cow.
Like, okay. I The other day I was looking for something on a on a camera. Hey, random YouTuber watcher.
I like that. I like that. Thank you.
Thank you.
Just from this tape. You mean there's other missing footage? That's what I was getting ready to say. I was like I was trying to find something on on a camera, right? And there's like this blank area and I was like, why is there a blank area in here? That's why I always have two cameras because two is one, one is none. That makes sense, you guys. Yeah, that one. I know it makes sense to you. One is none, two is one. You always have a backup.
42 minutes missing and the video is flipped. Does it always or did it always Here's the question.
Did it always come out flipped or did it just get flipped for this thing? And is that an inmate right there in the orange on the far left? Is that an inmate?
Are they washing the car? Also >> completely dismiss it on the >> hold. This is the This is 2026, isn't it?
This is 2026.
Let's just go around and say they aren't getting a special camera, you know, like it's not like some sort of like special cop camera that costs a bunch of money. I mean, it's not like they spend a million dollars on a on a fake prosecutor guy, right? But let's just say that you can have any camera.
You can get a 4K security camera for under 100 bucks.
Why wouldn't you have it? Why is this footage so crappy? Let me tell you what.
I'll tell you what. I have a I have a a Let me phrase this. the new security cameras that they're night vision. It comes out in full color.
There's no longer do you need a spotlight. You don't need lighting. You don't have any more of those green screens or anything like that. It is full color. And you know what? I like the full color night vision better than I do the image it gives you for the daytime.
All I'm saying and it's not 4K.
All I'm saying is is why are why do we This is the biggest Oh, it's a it's a pet peeve maybe. Why are we putting up with the fact that these cameras are so crappy you can't see anything on them?
I like you, random.
I like you a lot.
[laughter] She she was like, "Why is my face up there for so long?"
Uh, I think the date appears correctly.
That's one thing.
That's one thing they did. Right. Right.
Sorry. This is You guys got to remember this is all new to me.
>> Spot. De was interviewed by the FBI on August 9th, 2023 at a time.
>> Oh, yeah. I see where it's flipped. Look down here. The writing's backwards.
See, like the the footage down here. Um, see 220. That's backwards.
Wait, aren't we five behind Granch? Meantime, it says eight.
When there was very little media coverage of the case, the Sallyport videos hadn't even been reported on yet and were unknown even on social media.
They wouldn't surface publicly until they were shown during the first trial.
>> According to the media, yes, I've seen the footage. So, yes, there were cameras. When you perform a Google News search for Sallyport Karen Reed up until August 9th, 2023, when she had her FBI interview, there are zero results.
>> The next place to look to find out what was being discussed online near the end of the summer of 2023 >> is the center of the free current. Are >> you serious?
>> Back then, Turtle Boy was discussing the rolling rally and standouts happening outside Reed's pre-trial hearings.
Absolutely. I'm not Higgins or Burkwitz in the Sallyport at all. So where exactly did she get this false memory from?
>> This seems to prove she manufactured this excuse, not realizing there was nothing she could have seen to create the false memory before she was interviewed. It appears she had no desire to testify against two fellow officers, one of them her former boss.
Desperate for an escape, she clung to the timeline, convincing herself it had to be a false memory. But in doing so, she never stopped to truly question whether that was even possible or how it would affect her career.
>> Did you have a conversation with anybody in >> the commissioner's office?
>> The the time stamp at the bottom was back.
>> That's what I was talking about.
>> Malicious.
>> I didn't use the word malicious. Why do you say malicious?
I had a conversation, but it was my department saying regardless of what I need to say on the stand, they support me.
>> How you doing, man?
>> How long had you been on the Boston Police Department at the time that you were invited to go up to the Commissioner Michael Cox's office?
>> It had to have been before the first trial. So, and I know it was when the agency released information to outside people.
>> That's not my question.
>> Miss De was invited up to the commissioner's office following the release of the FBI documents which included transcripts of her interview.
It feels likely that the Commonwealth upon receiving those documents realized they had a problem. It's clear someone from the Norfolk DA's office called Commissioner Cox and requested he intervene on the matter. We can summize this because those documents were sealed and access was strictly limited to the attorneys. He would have no way of independently obtaining that information, which is likely why he's vigorously denying the meeting was even about the Karen Reed case.
>> I have no idea what they're talking about with Karen Reed. He had nothing to do with Karen Reed. Uh no discussion about >> Did you tell Officer De to do the right thing?
>> I didn't know she was even associated with that case. Would you find did you find it unusual that a rookie police officer when we called up to the commissioner's office personally?
>> It was a reflection of how good of a leader he is. It was not anything that I found unusual given the fact he is someone who wanted to show support for his officer.
>> She believes she's helping the commissioner by speaking up. But like a boa constrictor with its prey, every move she makes only allows Alan Jackson to tighten his grip. So all of your training class or all of your injury class they've all gone up to the commissioner's office as well.
>> I don't know anyone else who's been in this particular circumstance.
>> We have employees here that have been up to develop and encourage and do things and I do that for tons of our employees.
>> Do you feel that you were inappropriately drawn into this as some sort of boogeyman?
>> That case is over.
>> At some point the mayor or the police chief of Boston >> department in so far as your That was Magnum PI by the way.
>> Austin Police Department fully supports you.
>> Cruz, how you doing?
>> Yes.
>> Did he also say do the right thing?
>> I never have said those words together.
>> That's a direct quote. So I can't recollect if he said a direct quote two years ago. A year ago when you talked to us, the defense, did you tell the defense that when you were called up to the commissioner's office, we told you two things? Commissioner Cox told you number one, Boston Police Department supports you and Officer Dver, do the right thing.
>> So he said my name correctly. He said de. And um >> that's my mistake. Let's see. Like you want me to repeat the question? Wait a second. Does she remember that?
>> Yes. And >> does she know? Does she know he's >> Does she know? I mean, honestly, does she she remember that?
I'm just saying.
Prove that she remember that and can't remember the other thing.
>> With the intent of guiding me one way or the other, madam. I asked you what he said to you. What were his words to you?
Diver fever >> that he supports me >> and just wanted me to tell the truth up here >> and his words were do the right thing.
>> Correct.
>> But his spelled like fever.
>> Officer Jeff surely understands how damaging those four words, do the right thing sound in this context.
>> That's what happens when you wake up.
>> What's striking is that she herself told the defense that's exactly what he said during their phone call. a call in which she claims to remember plenty of other details.
>> They were essentially telling me what they were looking for me to say on the stand.
>> They were looking for you to say >> they were looking for me to say that I saw Higgins and Burkowitz in the garage with the car.
>> It's important to note that when it comes to the most critical >> it wasn't the video >> part of her testimony, she chooses to protect Commissioner Cox and uphold the thin blue line rather than simply tell the truth. In her defense, it's not clear she recognizes the mental gymnastics her mind performed to concoct this story and land her in this position. She may be completely unaware or willfully ignorant of it.
>> I'm going have you testified in a court of law >> in your during the course of your job.
two dozen, three dozen >> and actually testified >> probably ballpark a dozen times.
>> Oh, >> in any of those other cases has commissioner [clears throat] Michael Cox called you up to his office to discuss your testimony in any of those cases.
>> I didn't know who she was.
>> Miami, she's a bounc >> instead of simply answering the questions. She's evasive. clearly weighing the consequences of her words and hesitating to respond. You can almost see her calculating what each answer might mean before deciding to hold back.
>> That's not a yes or no answer.
>> Well, yes, it actually is, Miss Deborah.
>> So, no comments. Okay. Just >> you understand the question?
>> The question? Yes. The implication >> she is literally actively trying not to implicate Commissioner Cox and unbelievably just admitted it.
>> The question is can any of those don't don't I'm asking you an open-ended question in any of those cases officer Deborah not including this one.
>> That's what it was. A pouty girl. That's what I call a pouty girl.
>> Ordered you up to his office to discuss your testimony.
>> No.
>> Thank you.
>> [snorts] >> Officer De smirks as her eyes meet someone seated on the Commonwealth side.
Apparently finding all of this quite amusing. She's clearly underestimated the seriousness of what's just occurred as she sits on a leave of absence from the Boston Police Department. Her credibility shattered, her career hanging by a thread and entangled in scandal with Commissioner Cox.
I was never on the scene. God, >> I never spoke to a witness. I never met a victim. I never spoke with a suspect.
This was just a random shift for me three and a half years ago at a desk.
>> Miss De seems unable to grasp the importance of her testimony and continues to attempt to distance in here about the the things that can rhyme with this person was associated with >> everyone. it seems is trying to disassociate from Karen Reed's prosecution. He knows full well that the Karen Reed fiasco is a career killer.
And while he along with the governor, the attorney general, and nearly every other public official in the state understands exactly what's really going on, they all keep their distance. That calculated silence is precisely what makes them complicit. In Commissioner Cox's case, he is almost certainly lying.
law enforcement agent Miami >> on August 9th, 2023 was >> quote, "You recalled seeing Higgins at the station later that day on Saturday."
Deborah thought it was also weird that Higgins and Chief Kenny Burkowitz were by themselves in the sallyport of the police department by themselves while Karen Reed's car was parked inside.
Higgins was a witness and present at the gathering [clears throat] where O'Keeffe was found dead outside and then he was in the presence of important evidence.
You were sitting at dispatch by yourself and saw on the camera outside of the sallyport when they walked in.
>> Diva's story grows in specificity now including multiple camera angles. It's difficult to accept that she manufactured all of this based on non-existent media coverage.
>> Officer Deborah, did you go on to say in that interview, quote, "You never saw them leave, them being Brian Higgins and Chief Ken Burkowitz. You never saw them leave." This may reveal when her shift really ended on that day. If she never saw Higgins and Burkowitz leave, it suggests she was still there after the SUV arrived, but left before they exited the Sallyport, that would place her departure closer to 5:30 p.m. and not the 3:45 p.m. time she originally claimed. And the 46 minutes missing from the Sallyport video would show Higgins and Burkowitz around the SUV for a wildly long time. Perhaps they edited Higgins out of the footage completely because they knew, just like Miss De as a witness, he should not be anywhere near Karen's vehicle.
>> But you recalled thinking to yourself that they were in the Sallyport for a wildly long time together in there. End quote. Have you ever heard of something called the blue wall of silence? Do you think it's important for police officers to protect one another >> in the field and out?
>> Objection.
>> Sustained.
Have you spoken with anyone? Not Mr. Brennan. He's covered that. Spoken with anyone from the district attorney's office about the about your involvement in this case ever?
>> No.
>> Never.
>> Unless you're going to provide a person.
I I've never talked to any of these people.
>> Did have you talked to anyone at the DA's office at all in any regard?
Not to my recollection.
>> How about indirectly?
>> Not to my knowledge.
>> Are you friends with any people that you're aware of that are connected to this case? Are you personal friends?
Girlfriends, boyfriends, personal friends with anyone that's connected with this case.
>> Other people who's been on the witness stand. One person. Yes. Who's that?
>> Sarah Levenson.
>> How long have you known Sarah?
>> We became friends in middle school.
>> For Deborah to admit she's close friends with Sarah Levenson is really just a step away from saying she's friends with Jen McCabe. Sarah, a longtime friend of the family, is a fully invested member of the Macalbert circle. And since she has presumably lied alongside them on the stand, she'd face serious legal jeopardy if that story ever unraveled.
My entire job revolves around what I say on the stand right now. If I was to lie, I lose my job. I lose everything.
I'm here to tell the truth. I cannot lie while sitting on the stand.
>> It's her statements like this that leads me to believe she's willingly accepted her alibi as fact.
Instead of trusting her memory, which by the way likely functions just fine, she chose to embrace an impossible story, convincing herself it must be true to maintain the status quo.
>> Because of the fact I was providing factual information that showed a statement of mine was a false memory, it was not a lie. Therefore, I made it in good faith.
>> She seems to truly believe it. The question there is this.
>> You want to follow what she just say?
I told the truth that I had a false memory, therefore it wasn't a lie. Is that what she just said?
Has anybody ever watched this and like been like, "Oh yeah, this does look horrible." How can anybody?
This is so weird. Oh my gosh.
Is choosing to believe something convenient equivalent to lying? That is a question only you can answer. Your >> entire job revolves around what you say on the witness stand. Is that what we just testified to?
>> Yes. And if you agree that what you said to those two law gate, what's going on 2023, you would be implicating not one but two police officers, law enforcement officers. Correct?
If you agreed with what you said in August of 2023 on this witness stand, you would be implicating two officers, fellow officers. Correct?
So, I'm confused as to what you're asking.
>> You would be implicating a >> You have not agreed that that was the truth. You've now indicated that what you told to law enforcement agents in August of 2023 was a lie.
>> No.
>> If you agreed with that statement here on the witness stand, you would be implicating two officers as having been in the Sally Court weirdly for a wildly long time with the SUV.
implicating not one but two fellow officers. Correct. That's what you would be doing.
>> It's not possible. I >> If you agree with me, >> would you be implicating the reputations of two officers?
>> If I was to lie, then yes.
>> And your entire job revolves around what you say on that witness stand. That's what you said. Correct.
I'm still >> That's what you just said, Officer Deborah. Correct.
>> I still don't really understand the question.
>> You just said, all I'm asking you is what you just said. I wrote it down. You just said, "My entire job revolves around what I say on the witness stand."
Correct.
>> Yes. To that question.
>> This testimony was so damaging for Dev that she's now on a leave of absence from the Boston Police Department. While there's room to feel sympathy for a once promising career ending like this, it's crucial to remember that every witness must be accountable for their testimony.
All of them face consequences and no one wants to be there. Others managed to tell the truth without scrambling for excuses to rewrite their stories. It's these decisions that determine who the heroes really are. Whether she consciously lied or simply convinced herself it was a false memory, she chose a different path. Karen Reed was put in a far more dangerous position. And it was possible precisely because so many people chose that easier path instead of standing up for >> frustrating now.
>> Thank you, micro dots.
Um, so yeah, it's frustrating now. I mean, I've never I hate how they do this now. Where's my one I fixed?
Where'd he go? Nope. There it is. Okay.
Like why random YouTube?
I mean why?
Yeah, because she wants to think.
Oh yeah, she needs a deep conditioner major trim or she just go Britney and start over. Well, you know what's funny about that, Jayloo, is I was I was thinking, well, at the end they showed a couple other dudes who I don't know yet.
And I was like, why is every dude bald and every chick have split ends and can have you noticed that? It's like that's like the the hairstyle. They have two hairstyles. You're bald if you're a guy, you have split ends if you're a girl.
I would not fit in and can because I have fabulous full head of hair and I can't grow uh a van dyke.
I cannot wait for the recursions to come down like years but between this case standmore case. I do not know anything about standard Birchmore yet. I need to say no to split ends. Agreed. Just a little clip clip clip clip.
Holy cow.
The Brady list that he used to Brady think that mean something different than everybody else. Salons must not be a big thing again, right?
Why? Why? I mean, wait, is there there's a video of her walking out of the police station after turning in her resignation?
Oh, I haven't seen that either.
Um, they are too busy covering up crimes and my option to take care of their fall or they turn into a troll doll.
She does look like a troll doll.
[laughter] You know what? A little um a little self uh uh manicuring is good for everybody.
It's good for everybody. You should care about your looks. Remember, your body is your temple, okay? Like, I've got a big temple.
I haven't had peeps in a long time, y'all, and I don't need them now. Take those away from me, please. Anyway, okay, we have one more of these. Uh, it's not a micro dots. Next one is Alli McCabe from Fervent.
Holy cow.
I woke up. Okay, let me I tell you this.
So, thank you Emily for messing up my algorithm. I woke up uh like a week or so ago, two weeks, maybe it was a week or so ago, I guess.
DUI guy is talking about uh what's her name? Alli McCabe. And I didn't know there was an Ali McCabe. This is brand new news to me. And then I realized that the first voice I heard in the morning was DUI guy. And I'm like, this is a horrible way to start a morning. I don't want to hear DUI guy first thing in the morning.
Oh, I'm kidding. He's he's great. I been in chat before and he's he's a cool guy. But um no, I know his um wife.
She's cool. Like she's one of the first people I met on YouTube. Um but yeah, DUI Larry think Larry there for a second.
Like come on, man. Larry, why am I seeing him for? Oh my gosh. No. No.
All right. So, Ali McCabe, I do not know an Ali McCabe. I do not know who she is.
I don't know any alleys except for um who's that one um Robert Downey Jr. was on the show.
Alley Mcfield. That's the only alley I know that and like I know like you know alleys between I know Printers Alley. That's an alley in Nashville. Bars and stuff in there.
There's a place called the Brass Rail.
It used to be I don't know. I've been there a long time.
Brass Rail. Don't Google that one.
Anyway, Ally is Jen and Matt's daughter.
Wait, is Matt the computer guy?
That's who Jen is married to.
And whose house? Alibaba.
Uh, whose house uh was the the whole reckoning at? Bowling alley. That's a good one. Yeah, you're right. I do know a bowling alley. Where is a Oh, I I do know where a bowling alley is. I do.
That's crazy.
She slipped on the stand the first time.
Been through a few alleys.
Matt is the one that looks like Fred Flintstone.
If you put hair on any of them printed on one sheet, that sounds familiar. Who is that?
Oh, the house was the Alberts and Cab is the Fred Flintstone guy who works on computers and Jen was best looker in high school.
Boy, that's like a curse.
All right, let's find that one.
Oh.
I'll tell you what, my stamina for sugar is not what it used to be. Like right now, I'm starting to feel it come down a little bit. Jim and K mom basically created Alli's story. I thought she did everybody's story.
Oh, war games. Yeah. Would you like to play a game? I remember that. That was um because like I said, I was psycho as a kid. I watch a lot of old movies and stuff and I watch that movie and I'm like I think I'm really sick. I don't understand what's going on here. Tic tac toe the world breakfast club.
I like brunch.
More of a brunch guy than a breakfast club guy.
is calling her brother.
Wait, I thought Colin wasn't there, though.
Okay, I I'm You know what? Let's just play this. Let's play this and see what's happening. Ladies and gentlemen, not Ali Mciel.
>> Whenever you're ready, Mr. Ly.
>> Thank you.
>> Uh, good afternoon.
>> Good afternoon.
>> Could you uh please state your name and spell your last name for?
>> Alli McCabe. MCC.
>> I heard in my brain say Ali Mciel.
>> And your parents, what are their names?
>> Um, Matt and Jen.
>> And your oldest daughter is Alli McCabe.
Is that right?
>> Yes, that's correct.
>> As far as that evening of the 28th, um how did your evening start out or what, if anything, were you doing first that evening?
>> Um it started with a team dinner at my house. Um the hockey team came over. We had dinner. Um then I went to my sister's basketball game at the high school. Um then I was hanging out with two of my friends. We were driving around. Um then the the night ended with me driving Colin Albert home.
>> And so let me start sort of back at the beginning before we go all the way. So as far as um the team dinner, is that something that was like a weekly thing?
>> Yeah, it was usually like the night before a game >> and sort of rotated between different players houses.
>> Correct.
>> So where was it on that particular >> that night? It was at my house.
>> Um well, first I set up at my house um for a uh team dinner for my daughter's hockey team. Then I met up with some parents um for my daughter played for the Canton High basketball team. So we met up with some parents before um we had a drink, appetizers, my younger two were with us. We fed them dinner and then we went on to Canton High School to the basketball game.
>> I never noticed that. Is she missing a tooth?
Oh.
Oh gosh. Yeah.
What's the name? Enhance bit rate. There we are.
Oh, that's um that's not good.
Let's get a little grab this.
Holy moly. Boy, is she u wonder how she got that being a making a peanut butter and jelly sandwich or something, right?
Holy moly, man. That was a That's a >> team dinner for my daughter's hockey team. Then I met up with some parents um for my daughter played for the Canton High basketball team. So, we met up with some parents before um we had a drink, appetizers, uh my younger two were with us. We fed them dinner and then we went on to Canton High School to the basketball game.
Now, starting back, the the oldest daughter with the hockey uh dinner at your house, that was your daughter, Ally. Is that correct?
>> Yes.
>> She's your oldest?
>> Yes.
>> The daughter who had a basketball game, is that your second oldest?
>> First time I've ever noticed it.
>> Wait, hold on.
>> About what time to the >> I had no idea. This is the first time I ever knew anything about this. The the tooth.
Look, you get knocked in the face, a tooth gets chipped.
Who knocked her in the face?
>> Dinner get done or what time did that wind down and you went to the basketball game?
>> Not exactly sure. The basketball games typically start around 6:30, so I assume around then.
>> I know she has her shirt open like she did.
>> Who if anyone from your family was involved in the basketball? Um, my younger sister.
>> Uh, who if anyone else from your family was was at the basketball?
>> My parents. I'm not sure about my sisters.
>> And did >> Sorry.
>> Did you go with your parents or separately or how did you get >> um I believe I drove and I arrived later than my parents.
>> Did you have your own car?
>> Yes.
>> And what kind of car did you have?
>> Um, a little Ford Fusion Blue.
>> Uh, when the game gets over, where was it that you went? Um, I believe I was just driving around with two of my friends and then we as we were driving we came across a dog on the side of the street. Knew we knew a snowstorm was coming. Um, so we picked the dog up and then brought it to the police station and then drove the dog back to where its owner's house >> and so they take the dog that you were driving around with. What are their names?
>> Um, Avery Panadosi and Danielle Seaman.
When you say drove it to dogs to take you to the owner's house um through Canton pretty aimlessly just driving.
>> Courtney, how you doing?
>> At some point you come upon a dog. Is that correct?
>> Correct.
>> And where was that?
>> Um on Elm Street.
>> And um >> Elm Street you is that correct?
>> Yes.
>> What did you do with the dog? Um, we the dog ran over to the car when we stopped and picked [clears throat] the dog up and we didn't really know what to do with it. So, we brought it to the police station.
>> You recall at all what kind what kind of dog it was?
>> No, white.
>> It was small. It was white and white and brown. Not sure what type.
>> And so, while you're at the police station, what if anything you learn about that dog that you were brought to the police station?
>> Um, I brought the or I went in the police station. The dog stayed in the car with one of my friends. And um as I was walking in and telling the officer that I found a dog, he got a call from the owner and she asked if she was like, "Oh, can you return my dog, please?"
>> And so you brought the dog back to the owner?
>> Yes.
>> You know about what time all that?
>> So you stole the dog?
>> I'm not ex I'm not sure.
>> Did they steal the dog?
>> Can't police.
>> Hi. Um my name's Alison. It was um anthlete.
We have a foster dog who um just escaped from our yard.
>> Oh, we have it. Um >> Oh my god. Thank god. Like a little terrier.
>> Two girls just came in here saying they picked them up.
>> Oh god. Okay, we'll be right. One of us will be right down.
>> I can have I can see if they'll bring them back. What number are you?
Ellie, will you take it back?
>> Wait a second.
>> You're sending somebody to somebody's house.
>> Thank you.
>> They not know where I live.
>> Thank you.
>> Not a problem.
>> Okay. Bye-bye.
>> And there are two girls that went in the police department, not one.
>> You mentioned that you had um picked up a person by the name of Colin Albert. Is that right?
>> Correct.
>> And uh who is Colin Albert to you or or can you describe to the jury sort of your relationship with Colin?
>> Um I've known Colin since I've been born. Um our families are very close. We went to high school together.
>> Do you guys remember anybody from when you were born?
>> And do you ever do you stay in touch with them? Do you talk to like to a doctor that was there, you know, maybe um nurses, anything like that? Do you remember from when you were born or have you known him your whole entire life?
It's just a weird way to talk. It's just a weird way to talk. I've never heard him. I've known him since I was born.
Bite me.
>> School together growing up um in the same friend group. So, yeah, we're we're very close.
>> In January of 2022, uh you had Miss McCabe's information saved as a contact in your phone. Is that correct?
>> Correct.
And on prior occasions, had you had a chance to, you know, call that number from your cell phone that you had programmed in as Ali McCabe?
>> Correct.
>> And when you called that number, who >> code or something over there?
>> Ali.
>> Now, with respect to uh text communications, had you had text communications with that contact in your phone as Ali McCabe prior to uh that date of January 28th?
>> Yes.
Um, he is my friend's son and my sister's nephew.
>> Your friend Julie son, correct?
>> Yes. So, my friend Julie's son.
>> And your oldest daughter Ally was calling friends. So, his call friends with your old daughter. [clears throat] >> Yes. They're born uh a week or two apart and we've kind of just they've done everything together. They're very good friends.
>> So, he was in the same >> Wait, they timed their pregnancies together.
>> Same grade as you. Is that right?
Correct.
>> He was a senior at this time as well.
>> Yes.
>> And uh you have friends, mutual friends together.
>> Yes.
>> Now, the two of you are not actually blood related. Is that correct? Correct.
Ball party.
>> Um but you have sort of relatives in common. Is that correct?
>> Yes.
>> And to that point, as far as uh when uh he reached out to you, let me ask you this. How is it that you came to to come by and sort of pick him up on that evening? Um, he texted me and was asking for a ride and then I responded, drove and got him, texted him when I arrived.
>> So, you reach out to Miss McCabe via text. Is that correct?
>> Yes.
>> And she agrees to pick you up?
>> Yes.
>> And uh, at some point um, are you made aware that she's at the home?
>> Yes.
>> And how is it that she makes you aware that she's at the home?
>> I got a text message from her that says, "I'm here." And at any point in time while you were in the home, did uh did Miss McCabe come inside the home?
>> No, they did.
>> So after you received that text message from Miss McCabe, did you respond?
>> Yes.
>> And call would you respond?
>> Come in.
>> And from that communication, after you sent that, how long was it between the time that you sent that and the time that you came out?
>> Between 30 seconds and a minute, I'd say. And when you came out of the house, uh um do you recall which door you came out at that point?
>> The side door next to the garage.
>> And when you came out that door, who if anyone did you encounter as you were coming out?
>> Um as I was walking out, I saw my uncle Brian and my aunt Nicole.
>> And uh you were going out and what were they doing?
>> They were coming in.
>> And uh in addition to your uncle Brian and your aunt Nicole, was there anybody else that you recall that was with them when they came into the house? No, not that I remember.
>> And um what if any exchange did you have with your uncle and your aunt as you were going out and they were coming?
>> I just said, "Um, I'm going home. My mom wants me home. I love you guys. Bye."
>> And uh you then went outside of the house. Is that correct?
>> Correct.
>> And did you see uh Miss McCabe outside?
>> Yes.
>> And where was she in relation to the house?
>> In the driveway. Now, do you recall what type of vehicle Miss McCabe was driving on that particular night or had at that time?
>> I believe it was the blue Ford that they had. And >> was that a sedan? Was that an SUV? What type of vehicle?
>> A sedan.
>> Um, and so you come out. That's in the driveway. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> You recall whether or not it was parked on the left side or the right side of the driveway?
>> I do not remember.
>> And you get into the get into that. I do not remember. Um, front seat, passenger side. Does that sound right?
>> Could have been that. Yeah.
>> You recall whether or not there was anybody else in the vehicle at the time that you got in?
>> I do not remember that. Do >> you recall whether or not there was anybody else in the vehicle at the time that she had dropped you off at that location?
>> I do not remember that either.
>> Mr. Mr. Cave, at some point um in August of 2023, did you have occasion to meet with uh some troopers from the state police?
>> Um yes, I believe I'm not sure what time, but on on a Zoom.
>> And [clears throat] was that one trooper or more than one trooper?
>> I believe two. I'm not sure.
>> Can you recall any of the names of any of those troopers?
>> Um Yuri maybe was one of them. I'm not sure.
And now, ma'am, following that meeting that you had with the state police, what if anything did you provide uh to them from your phone?
>> Um text messages with Colin, maybe pictures, I don't know. Defin definitely the text messages.
>> And before we get to that, just as far as uh your phone, what kind of phone did you have at that time?
>> Um I believe an iPhone 14 Pro Max maybe.
I should have been more specific as far as the time, but the iPhone you're talking about as far as the Pro Max was at in January of 202 uh August of 202 in August.
>> And between January of 2022 and August of 2023, um did you have the same phone throughout that time period?
>> I'm not sure. I believe I upgraded. Um yeah.
>> Yeah, they all did.
>> And when you upgraded your phone, what if any carried over from the old phone to the new phone? Um everything >> uh so as far as chats or or text messages or phone contacts, things like that, all of that transfer from one phone to the new phone.
>> Correct. [snorts] >> And you may approach.
>> Yes.
>> Ask you to take a look at it.
>> Okay.
>> Objection. It has to be heard.
>> Okay. Come on up.
>> Your honor, I'm objecting on multiple grounds. One is that this is rank here.
it's being offered for the truth of the matter asserted. Secondly, and equally important, is that these screenshots are unreliable.
We don't know that they are what they purport to be. In other words, there are times listed there, but again, being offered for the truth of the matter asserted, which by an iPhone can be changed very easily by going into settings. So, we don't have a forensic extraction of the phone. The police did not ask to actually take her phone and confirm that those times are actually accurate. They chose not to do that.
>> Is wait is that guy >> given that her phone is gone now. They robbed us of any ability to challenge those times through forensic methods. So I believe these are inadmissible in the form that they are in. If the court is inclined to overrule my objection, I would ask for a voard deer to be done before these are admitted.
>> Okay. What do you say, Mr. Your honor, what I say is that the witness on the stand is a participant in the conversations and can authenticate those conversations under party.
Secondly, I would say as far as any questions that council has to them, go to the wait and not the admissibility.
>> How long of a voir do you need?
>> 10 15 minutes.
>> All right. You're also aware that it is possible to change the timestamp on any individual message. Correct?
>> No, I'm not aware of that.
>> You go to settings and you go to general and you go to date and time.
First of all, you can change the time zone of the message.
Do you have your iPhone with you right now?
>> Not what? Not on me.
>> Not on. Not on me. Um, and in addition to being able to change the time zone, you actually can change the hour and minute to whatever you want it to be.
Were you aware of that?
>> No.
With regard to photos on your phone, um you are aware that you can change the date and time of any photo in your photo app. Correct.
>> Nope.
>> There is a little when you go go to your iPhone, there's a little eye for information and all you need to do is or I think it's for info or information.
Um, all you need to do is click on that and you get a popup from the bottom that gives you the ch the choice to alter the date and time.
>> Did you know that?
>> No.
>> Uh, next to that date and time is the word adjust. And that's all you have to click on. And you can change the time from from 12:10 a.m.
>> or you can change it from 12:40 a.m. to 12:10 a.m. or you could change it from 1:45 to 12:10 a.m. And it's that easy.
>> Yep. Now I Now I know. I didn't know that. I didn't do that.
>> Okay. So, I'm going to allow this testimony. Now I know your argument goes to the weight of the evidence, not its admissibility. But I did under Commonwealth versus Truey want to give you your idea.
>> Looking at there's sort of one side as text and one side has a blue bubble. Is that correct?
>> Yes.
>> And if you know who is communicating with who as far as the the sort of plain text outside of >> um Colin and I is that what you're asking? Sorry.
>> I'm asking is who's the blue bubble?
>> Oh, sorry. I'm the blue bubble and he is the gray whitish bubble.
And u from sort of the top of what's depicted on the screen um you read the text that you received and the time that you received.
>> Yes. Um 11:54 and then I responded at 11:55.
>> And what did Colin say at 11:54?
>> Um you can get me now if easier.
>> What did you >> Okay, I am driving people home now.
>> And what did Colin respond to that and what time did he respond?
>> He responded word getting me after And if you can scroll down and um following the after, what if any responses?
>> KK.
Okay. And here >> and here that you texted, what time did that read on the screenshot?
>> 12:10 a.m.
>> And what if anything called respond to the text?
>> He responded at the same time saying, "Okay.
>> [clears throat] >> But if you scroll down a little bit after the end of that text string, >> there's no text of the 20th.
It says, "Okay."
>> Do you see the next date?
>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> What date is that?
>> February 20th.
>> That's nearly a month later. Correct.
>> Correct. So, there was a gap after January 29th, 2022 when you found out that a man had ended up dead on your uncle's lawn and you and Ally did not text each other for a month, not once.
>> Objection.
>> Sustained is to that form. Ask it differently. Isn't it true that on January 29th, later in the day, you found out about John O'Keefe and his condition, the fact that he died?
>> Objection.
>> Is that true? Did you find out that day?
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> So, [cough] you were well aware of We take that down. You were well aware, Mr. Albert, that something very tragic had happened at your uncle's house, Brian Albert's house, right?
>> Correct. And you were aware that you had been at your uncle's house that night, right?
>> Correct.
>> Thank you.
>> You're also aware that according to you, Alli McCabe was the one that picked you up and took you from that location.
[clears throat] >> Correct.
>> And notwithstanding [laughter] the fact of this tragedy, you and Ally didn't text each other [laughter] one time for a month.
Is that right?
>> I don't think that's correct.
>> So, where are those texts?
>> We text on other platforms, too. So, I'd say other apps.
>> So, is there a reason why you decided for the next month to just switch platforms to maybe Snapchat?
>> Objection.
>> I'll allow it.
>> No reason.
>> Are you sure that you switch platforms?
>> I'd say so. Yeah. Why did you switch platforms?
>> We go back and forth, I'd say, between platforms. Text, >> you switch platforms because you know that Snapchat deletes all communications. Correct.
>> Jackson, [clears throat] >> ask it differently. Mr. Jackson, >> do you know that Snapchat has an autodee function on it?
>> If your app is set to that, yes, >> your app was set to that, wasn't it?
>> I do not remember that.
So again, your memory is failing you.
>> Can you rephrase that?
>> Sure. Once again, >> okay, so this is a different time than before when Colin's talking here. Okay.
Right.
He's wearing the same shirt.
So [snorts] what's the time frame on this? He's got the same shirt on. Same gingham shirt.
Your memory is failing you. Remember, >> objection. [snorts] >> Ask it differently. Mr. Jackson, >> isn't it true, Mr. Albert, [clears throat] >> that you either switched platforms or deleted the texts because you did not want your text communications with Alan P to be discovered?
>> Objection.
>> Is that right?
>> That's not true. So, where are those communications?
>> I do not know.
>> Can't produce them right now, can you?
>> I'm not sure.
>> So, in the days, hours and days and weeks following the death of John O'Keefe, your communications with your best friend, Ally, the person who gave you a ride home that night, they're just gone, right?
>> I'm not sure.
on January 29th, 30th, 31st. You did not turn over that screenshot to any law enforcement official. Correct. Of J of 2022?
>> No, I was never asked.
>> In fact, all of 2022, no investigator ever approached you to say, "Can I have a copy of that screenshot?" Correct.
>> Correct. Uh, and [clears throat] in addition to that, you never called an investigator to say, "Hey, I have a copy of a screenshot of a text message conversation that I had with Colin out."
Correct.
>> No, it wouldn't have been relevant at that time.
>> Okay.
>> I believe because Colin was not at the house and wasn't introduced as being there until later.
So your uh testimony today that is that at no time in the year 2022 did you consider it relevant at all that you had this screenshot of this text conversation. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> You didn't turn over that screenshot of a text message until sometime during the summer of 2023. Correct.
>> Correct.
about a year and a half or more after January 29th of 2022. Correct?
>> Yes. When I was asked >> uh and by that time, the summer of 2023, um you had already switched phones, correct?
>> Yes. Believe. In other words, the iPhone that you had on January 29th of 2022, you no longer have possession of that physical phone. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> When did you take that English today?
>> I don't remember.
>> Was it before or after you got rid of your old phone?
>> I don't remember. So, we don't know if that screenshot was from your phone that you got in December of 2022 or if it was from the phone that you had back in January of 2020. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> Before you uh >> Are you serious?
>> Got rid of the old phone and got the new one.
>> She wore the same outfit. Did any law enforcement official >> prior to that December 2020 time period >> or investigator from this case ever ask to examine your physical phone itself?
>> No.
>> Uh did they ever say to you, we would like to do what's called an extraction on your phone?
>> No.
And you've never you never gave that phone at any point to any law enforcement official before you got rid of it. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> And the first time that you mentioned that text conversation >> Wow.
>> outside your family was August 3rd of 2023. Correct.
>> Correct. That was at a proceeding in Boston. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> That uh proceeding in August of 2023 was less than a year ago. Correct. We're in May of 2024.
>> Correct.
>> And that was a long time after John O'Keefe was found dead on Brian Albert's lawn. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> No investigator from this case, uh, no state police trooper or anybody from the DA's office had ever interviewed you, right? Prior to August of 2023.
>> Um, I talked to the troops, state troopers, but I don't know if that was before or after.
>> That was on August 25th of 2023, which is about 3 weeks after your testimony and the other proceeding. Does that refresh your memory?
>> Yes. Then after that, >> and at that point in time on August 25th of 2023, you'll agree with me that you were not interviewed at a police station or a state police barracks. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> Or the DA's office. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> You were interviewed by Zoom. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> And you were not alone at that time in your in your home. Correct.
>> I'm not sure.
>> Your mother, Jennifer McCabe, was present. Correct.
>> Okay. and she was monitoring what was going on in that interview. Correct.
>> Objection.
>> Was that true? Do I I don't recall.
>> Did you delete any of your calls before you turn your phone into >> just do a little look over?
>> I spoke with the two officers that I handed my phone.
>> Do I I don't recall >> going on in that interview. Correct.
>> Objection.
>> Was that true? Do >> I I don't recall. Did you delete any of your calls before you turned your phone into law enforcement?
>> I spoke with the two officers that I handed my phone over to and I asked if I could delete the personal conversations with my daughters and they said absolutely yes that I could.
>> So other than calls with your daughters that you deleted, did you delete any other calls on your phone at all?
>> There were text messages. It was actually text messages with my daughters that I deleted and that was all I deleted.
>> You indicated when you turned your phone in the police were >> all said and who's this >> perfectly okay with you deleting communications with your children.
Correct.
>> Correct.
>> Including Ally who's a material witness in this trial.
>> Objection.
So part of that is objectionable and I'll sustain that. So >> you're aware that your daughter Ally was a witness in this case >> at the time. I was not aware of that.
No.
>> No. But you did know >> her tooth isn't fixed.
>> She was going to indicate that she drove Colin home. Correct. You knew that at the time.
>> Yes.
>> That's sustained.
>> Did you know at the time had driven Colin home or she said she drove him home?
I had no idea she >> Her tooth isn't fixed.
>> Not fixed.
>> Drove him home.
>> But you deleted all those communications with Alec, didn't you?
>> Objection.
>> Sustained.
>> Did you delete all the communications that you had off your phone with Alec, your daughter?
>> Objection.
>> So, this has already been answered, but go ahead. Finish. Let's finish this loop. Did you delete them? I deleted the conversations with my four daughters. At that time, Ally was not a witness.
>> All you heard my question. Did you or did you not delete the communication?
>> Objection.
>> That's been answered.
At some point you became aware for dogs >> that um your daughter Ally was involved in this matter to some extent. Correct.
>> Yes.
>> You became aware that uh there was an extraction of your phone that revealed some data about her whereabouts.
>> That's not how I became aware now.
>> Like 360. Yes, I know what that is.
>> That's what I'm asking about. You being aware that your Well, you know your phone was extracted, correct?
>> I willingly handed over my phone.
>> Oh, we'll get to that.
>> Oh, okay.
>> You know that your phone was extracted.
[clears throat] >> Yes, I handed it over.
>> And you know that your daughter's whereabouts uh were revealed based on data on that phone. Correct.
>> I I that is not how I became aware.
of my daughter's whereabouts.
>> You testified at the state grand jury >> questioning by Mr. Lai, correct?
>> Yes.
>> You were asked about the life 360.
>> Yes.
>> You answered those questions very fluidly.
>> Yes.
>> Yes. I know what life 360 is. I use it all the time. It's an app, etc. >> Absolutely.
>> Okay. Let's go over that for a second.
>> You admitted that it works as a quote GPS as far as where people go and everywhere that you go. Correct.
>> Correct. You indicated that it works as a reliable quote unquote tracking device was your testimony.
>> Correct.
>> You indicated that you rely on it quote so you know where your kids are at all where your kids are at all times. Is that right?
>> Correct.
>> And you even said that it's a quote unquote good [clears throat] parenting tool. Is that right?
>> Correct.
>> And the reason you said that is because it's accurate in your experience and it's reliable. Is that right?
>> It's a good tool, but it is not always accurate. And as far as the light 360 goes, is that something that uh that you sort of keep track of them or they keep track of you?
>> It's more of them keeping track of me.
Um, now with regard to Life 360, uh, would you agree with me that if you go on that app and you're trying to figure out where somebody in your family is, there's like a and let's say you want to know if somebody's home, there's like a a circle that is that surrounds your home, correct?
>> Yes. So, um, once you enter that circle, you know that Life 360 gives an alert >> that said you arrived at home. Even though you're physically not walking in the door, you're within that circle, and that's the home circle, right?
>> Yes.
>> So, where did Ally go after she supposedly dropped off Colin Albert?
>> She went nowhere.
>> Did you check her Life 360 app to verify that she went quote nowhere? At that point, I had no reason to check her.
>> So, the answer is no, you didn't.
>> No.
>> Okay. Um, >> I didn't drink.
>> Did you ever verify through the life 360 app that in fact Ally did not go home, but rather was out driving until after 1:30 a.m.
Check the app and see that?
>> Did I ever check life 360 app for that?
>> Yeah.
>> No.
>> Okay. Um, but you believed her when she said she came home.
Yes. [clears throat] >> And just like you believed her when she said she picked up Colin, dropped him off, and then came home.
>> Yes. Okay.
>> Um on January 29th of 2022 at 12:04 and 53 seconds, you arrived within that home circle. Correct.
>> Correct. [clears throat] And then at 12:06 and 55 seconds on January 29th, you left that home circle. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> And then on January 29th of 2022 at 12:23 and 14 seconds, you completed a seven mile drive where your top speed was 42 miles an hour. Does that make sense?
>> Correct.
And then you left home uh on January 29th of 2022 at 12 23 and 14 seconds as well. And what what that probably means uh reading between the lines is that you entered that home circle but then you didn't go home. You went through the home circle and completed a seven mile drive somewhere. Right.
I guess I thought I went home on the >> direction you're on.
>> Okay. I'm I'm sorry. I didn't hear your answer.
>> Um I believe I went home.
>> I was completing my drive out my house.
>> All right. But [snorts] at 12:26 a.m. on January 29th, you left home again, right?
>> Objection, your honor.
>> Did you Did you leave home? I I don't know. I don't remember. Okay.
>> All right. Uh, and at 12:26 a.m. and 12 seconds, you arrived at the Canton High School. Correct?
>> No.
>> Uh, at on January 29th of 2022 at 12 26 and 55 seconds, you completed a onem drive where your top speed was 43 miles per hour. Right.
>> I don't believe so.
>> And then >> I don't want all this technology.
>> 26 and 55.
>> I don't want anybody tell me how fast.
On January 29th, you left Canton High School and arrived at home on January 29th of 2022 at 12:29 and 28 seconds.
Correct?
>> I do not know.
And then after arriving home again on January 29th of 2022 at 1229 and 29 seconds, you completed a 12mile drive on January 29th of 2022 at 12:31 and 22 seconds, did you not?
>> No.
>> And then you left home on January 29th of 2022 at 108 and 15 seconds, right? I don't believe so.
>> And ultimately, you went through the home bubble and the Canton High School bubble. And you arrived at Canton High School at on January 29th of 2022 at 1:28 in the morning in 8 seconds.
>> Can I see where you're referring to?
>> Sure. Did that help refresh your memory on where you were that night?
>> No.
Do you still dispute that you went straight home and didn't leave there?
>> Objection.
>> Sustained.
>> And finally, we just I just asked you about arriving at Canton High School on January 29th of 2022 at 128 and 8 seconds. Uh, you arrived at home within that home bubble on January 29th of 2022 at 1:30 in the morning and 26 seconds.
>> Correct.
>> What time did it say I arrived at high school?
>> 1:30 in the morning and 26 seconds.
>> And what time did it say I arrived the high school?
>> Uh, the high school was 1:28 and 8 seconds.
>> It wouldn't have taken me two minutes to go from the high school to my house. I'm confused with >> regard to the the high school was also one of the bubbles, one of the areas where you could be right on life 360.
>> No.
>> If I may.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Okay. Um did you say that on Life 360 um the Canton High School is not one of the areas that you're tracked in?
>> What do you What do you mean? So, do you remember we were talking earlier about >> Oh, like put in a location like that was home. That was high school.
>> Like, you know, if your mother's looking for it, where are you? Yes. You know, you're at DNA pizza, you're at high school, you're at, you know, home, right? I mean, there those could be categories.
>> Correct.
>> You've agreed that home was one of the categories.
>> Correct.
>> Um, and having reviewed that, the Canton High School is also one of the categories. Correct.
>> I believe so. All right. And on January 29th of 2022, the last entry is that you completed a 12 mile drive on January 29th of 2022 at 1:32 in the morning and 23 seconds and that's the end of the activity. Do you agree with me that that's when you finally stopped that night?
>> I don't recall.
Now, you were asked some questions uh about >> that time frame of August of 2023 uh when you were asked and you uh turned over some screenshots to troopers from the state police. Correct.
>> Correct.
>> You were asked about previous times um indicating that uh you weren't asked uh and it wasn't relevant. Correct.
>> Correct. Now, do you know why you were asked in August of 2023 versus any prior time period?
>> Um, because Colin Albert wasn't in the house and then it was brought up here that he was >> and brought up where the microphone >> by the defense.
>> And uh around that time of August 2023, >> I believe so. Yes.
>> And with [clears throat] reference to uh relevancy, is that what you were talking about?
>> Correct. And what if anything else uh has are you're close friends with Colin Albert? Is that correct?
>> Correct.
>> What if anything else has uh you either your family or Colin Albert and his family undergone uh over the course of penalty of this case?
>> Objection.
>> No, that the door's been opened. I'm allowing it. Um well basically harassment >> harassment by >> um bloggers people online >> and uh what if anything in relation to Colin Albert >> I don't have her on live 360 I don't know where Emily is >> um can you rephrase >> um with reference to what you were talking about as far as the relevancy of Colin Albert being in house at that time um what if any harassment was there in relation to that in relation to Colin.
>> Well, >> no, go ahead. She can answer.
>> Colin wasn't at the house. So, he's being harassed for he was not at the house when John was there. John was there. John was there. John was there.
So, I drove him home. So, he's People are harassing him saying he was at the house when >> it's not true.
>> What?
>> Relation to that and in relation to Colin?
>> Well, >> no, go ahead. She can answer. Colin wasn't at the house. So, he's being harassed for He was not at the house when John was there. John was there.
John was there. John was there. So, I drove him home. So, he's People are harassing him saying he was at the house when it's not true.
>> When you speak about harassment, what what specifically type of harassment we >> um phone call, constant phone calls, emails, awful messages.
>> Objection.
>> I'll allow it.
focus on this witness, not Colin Albert at this point.
>> As far as uh you and and your family, what if any type of harassment have you received?
>> Um people showing up at our house. Um people emailing my school.
Um just like a lot of harassment.
Can I have a moment, please? Sure.
>> Why [snorts] is she crying now? There's another call on Albert at this point.
>> As far as uh you and and your family, what if any type of harassment have you received?
>> Um people showing up at our house. Um people emailing my school.
Um, hey Dusty Blue. How you doing? Why did she start crying?
just take a lot of harassment.
Can I have a moment, please?
>> Sure. [snorts] >> Dad, she drinking a smart water.
Drinking smart water. I think it's funny cuz nobody up there. They need more smart water. That's what they need.
>> Okay. I'm sorry.
[snorts] I have some. Thank you.
>> And how long period of time has that?
>> A very long time.
[snorts] >> Thank you. [laughter] All right, Mr. McCitness, Mr. Lally.
Wait, what did I say? Was a My stupid head's in the way. She is not called by the prosecution of the retrial and she is set to be deposed by the car civil team.
Oh, the civil team.
Oh, that's that'll be interesting.
Um, y'all check out Fervent.
Please go subscribe and all the good stuff. We're supposed to be as good YouTubers.
And I can't remember where I'm supposed to be. Sorry. Is this one? Yes.
Hiccup. Holy cow. So, what does she mean by that? He wasn't there when John was there.
Did I say that? That sounds like something I would say. Did I Who that calls high maintenance? Lovely flight.
That's a cool avatar, too. Uh, it's actually sad that Jen's daughter was told what to say.
You know, it's sad that there's a lot of stuff that sad here.
They lied and all said John was never in the house.
John never in the house. I don't implied he wasn't.
John was in the house. It means she says that John was there. The opposite. Wait a second though. Was Ally there though?
I thought she was out driving around with dogs.
Was she there?
Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right.
Oh, that's right.
Wait a second. Wait. I thought Colin Oh, wait a second. I'm so confused.
I'm so confused.
I should take a note.
I should take a Hang on. How you doing?
Okay, wait a second here. Hold on. Which one's What's happening here?
I'm so It's okay. We're in the middle of time. Are you lost? Yes. I'm so lost.
I'm so lost. Okay.
I don't even know what I'm lost about.
Holy cow.
You know what? What was that song?
We're going to play that song that I said I couldn't play. We're going to go over here. I'm going to share this and I'm going I'm going to get a drink.
Okay. I want you guys to I'll be right back. I'm going to get a drink. I finished my Diet Coke. I've had way too many peeps. I probably need to brush my teeth. Holy cow. Um, so all right, hang on a second. Let me do this. I'll be right back. We're going to play a song if I remember how because I'm so confused right now.
Holy cow.
All right. I hope it doesn't um go to something else after this.
I will fuck you up. [music] >> I will beat your ass.
>> I will fuck you up.
Pull up, bitch.
>> I will fuck you up. [music] >> I will beat your ass.
>> I will fuck you up. [music] >> Objection. Objection. Objection.
>> I will fuck you up. [music] KO bang bang.
>> I will fuck you up.
>> You're a bitch, bro. [music] >> I will fuck you up.
>> I will beat your ass. [music] >> I will fuck you up.
>> Right.
>> Yeah.
>> The bang bang. The bang bang. Pull up.
The bang bang. The bang bang. Pull [music] up.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. The bang bang. [music] The bang bang. Pull up. The bang bang. The bang bang bang.
[music] [music] [music] All right, Mr. [music] Ellie, your next witness, please.
>> Yes, you're on the [music] call to call Trooper Michael Proctor to the stand.
State your name and spell your last name for the jury.
>> Michael Proctor, [music] P R O C T O R.
>> You're a bitch, bro.
I [music] will bunk you up. I will beat your ass. I will fuck you up.
>> I'm going to allow it.
>> I will fuck you up. I will beat your ass. I will fuck [music and singing] you up.
>> I'm going all out.
Bang bang [music] bang bang [music] bang bang bang bang [music] bang bang.
Sorry about that. I did not um That's not what I I remembered. Oops.
Sorry.
We're going have to go to the circle right now.
Thank you. That was the first homework assignment. The bang bang song. Bang bang shrimp. Everybody. Bang bang shrimp. Everybody likes Thai food.
>> [laughter] >> All that was words used in a public trial. Uh, it's all usable for usable evidence and all that stuff. I do not know.
Sorry.
Hey GD, how you doing? Yeah, I definitely need to pull up.
Pull up. Pull out. Pull thumb. Pull up.
[laughter] Jeez.
I don't know.
So everybody said that Colin was not at the house. Then Ally Mciel said he was at the house.
No, John was at the house. But I thought Ally was going to pick up Colin.
Is that right?
Linda Lazir, how you doing? Laser taser.
I'm so lost. I have no idea what's happening right now. I'm so lost. I need I need to be held. Like I need someone take my hand. Please leave me out.
Please make it through the homework whether you understood it or not. I got something to turn in. I don't know if it's any good.
It's going to be You know what this is?
I need to wash out my brain.
[music] with the wake up in the wake up in the wake up in the wakeleg colin was there the whole time.
Where are we linking to? What's going on again? Tell me what I missed. I don't know if that's cheating.
I don't know that's cheating. No, actually, I really would love to, Kelly.
I don't know how much longer I'm going to be on.
Like I I have I've got to be my wife and I have to go tomorrow at two o'clock. We have to be at the county clerk's office. I think it's the county clerk's office.
That means I have to be out of here by one. Means I've got to be today means I got to be up by 11.
I'm pretty tired.
This is homework not test your being.
Okay. Now link up here. Kelly's your books. Wait, how to do it? They moved it. Oh, there it is.
And where are you? Hey, where are you?
No, that's not it. Down here.
Did you change your avatar?
Has it been that? Holy cow. It's been seven weeks since you've said hello to me.
I do hope that's the right Kelly.
Holy cow.
I mean, I haven't responded.
Oh, those are getting those been a long time.
Oh, that's so many weeks ago.
That was eight weeks ago.
Nine weeks.
Oh, 15 weeks. Holy cow. It's been a while since I've check my messages.
Sorry. Just now. Couldn't Ally be saying though that Colin was not at the house when John was not in the house but at the house.
I'm still confused. I'm still confused.
>> Kelly, are you there?
>> I'm here. Are you there?
>> You're a blank avatar. I know that.
>> I'll fix it. I'll fix it.
I mean, you can do whatever you want to.
Hey, Diane, what's going on?
I have no idea.
>> Okay. What are you conf Where did you get confused at?
>> I don't know. You tell me cuz I don't know any other.
>> All right. So, when I came on, you knew what was going on with Jen, right?
Jen, >> you knew that she Jen McCabe was missing a tooth and stuff.
>> No, I just found that one out.
>> Okay.
>> So, first trial, Jen was missing the tooth cuz she told the whole tooth and nothing but the tooth. So, or it was a crooked tooth or something like that. I don't know. So, with Ally, Ally freaked out on the stand because >> yes, >> Colin was originally at the house. Okay.
He says that when Brian and Albert, Brian, Albert, and when Nicole came in that he was about to leave and was saying goodbye to him cuz his bride was coming. So he says he was never there when John was there. But Ally slips up on the stand and says John he was not there when John was at the house saying that John was in the house. And everybody else says John never came in the house.
What was that first part? Colin, hang on a second. Hellfish. Hellfish. Everyone's story was John wasn't in the house. Ally effed up and she said he was in the house and Colin wasn't there when John's inside. Was Colin Colin? How do you say it? Was he supposed to be there?
>> Colin was there to visit. So, okay. So, Brian Albert is Colin's uncle and Jen McCabe is Colin is uh is Nicole Albert's sister. So that so Ally, first of all, Ally and Colin are not related at all. They're just related through marriage. Um Brian Albert and Nicole Albert were coming in the house and he has said he was leaving. He was waiting for his ride to get there and that was Ally that he was on his way out.
>> Wait, hold on. Hold on.
>> That makes them cousins.
>> Nope. No, no, no. Because Nicole and Jen are brother sisters and Al Brian and Chris are brothers.
>> So Colin is Bri is Chris Albert's son, which is Brian's brother.
>> Ally is Jen McCabe's daughter, which is Nicole's sister. So they're only related by marriage. They're not actually related.
>> I heard incest.
>> You're so ridiculous.
It was it was so now it's incest is involved.
>> Yes, that's that's exactly what I said.
>> That explains the tooth.
>> That explains the tooth. Yeah. So basically, >> yeah, if a thing they're cousins by marriage, so there's there's no blood relation.
They're kissing cousins. Don't say that.
No. Um so he was at the house visiting Brian Jr. for his birthday.
He was about waiting for his ride. Uncle Brian, Aunt Nicole came in as they were coming in from the bar and they said, "Hey, I didn't know you were here." And he said, "I'm just leaving." And then he says he went and got in the car and left. So, he was not there when John came to the house, but Ally said he was not there when John was in the house.
So, she said in the house where everybody else said he wasn't at or in the house at all.
>> Well, Ally wasn't in the house.
>> No.
>> I mean, how does she know?
>> Well, cuz she knows the secret cuz mama has taught her to lie.
Her Jennifer did all of this. wasn't that uh >> her mama told her what to say.
>> So, was Colin there or not?
>> He was at the house, but he supposedly had left prior to John and Karen showing up.
>> So, he was in the house when John was in the house.
Well, that's what Karen believed that he was there. Yes, because Karen >> No, that's what Ally just said. Did Is that what she just said?
>> Ally said he was in the house. Yes.
[snorts] >> When John was in the house?
>> Yes. That that Colin was not in the house when John was in the house.
>> What?
>> He She said that he was not there when John was in the house.
That's why she started crying because she realized she messed up.
>> No, it doesn't mess anything up because they weren't in the house at the same time.
There's no mess up. They still aren't in the house at the same time. The ends is still going to be the ends. They weren't in the place at the same time. It doesn't matter that we know >> wasn't in the house. No, but see that's the thing that that there's there's evidence that states otherwise that Karen Reed's team had that was not allowed to be put in cuz he was originally the third party one of the third party >> culprits. This is This is all going all over the place now. Just what she said.
Just >> Okay, I'm saying Ali said he was in the house. Yes, >> John was in the house. Colin was not there when John was in the house.
So it doesn't change anything.
So her crying I thought her crying was was that she just linked the them together.
>> Right. Her crying is because she said that John was in the house even though she say John was in the house.
>> Okay. So Colin didn't. So we can rule Colin out as having anything like helping or anything. there's anything is h happening there. He did not serve cocktails. He was not lighting cigarettes. There's none of that stuff happening with John.
>> Yes, we'll go with that.
>> Yep. Because she was not supposed to be in the house when John was there, but they she went off of what the family said. Basically, the family said, "Um, you John was never in the house. Tell him the guy never went in the house."
Right.
>> Okay.
>> So, that that's in the text message.
Tell him the guy never went in the house. Everybody in the family said he was never in the house. But Ally on the stand messed up and said that he was not at the house when John was in the house.
That's why she started to cry. She freaked out because she realized >> she knows there's repercussions for >> What do you think of the repercussions?
>> She has >> her mom has voodoo dolls so who knows?
>> How do we know that?
Um people who Lindsay Katani said so >> who did >> Lindsy Katani >> who's that >> fake victim exhur boy in jail >> this is why I feel like I'm cheating on my homework >> you're not cheating it's phoning a friend the thing is you also started after the fact so all of us have known all of this stuff >> not like this what >> 18 times >> yeah I know I don't No, I'm It's not raining right now.
We're supposed to We're under a rain thing from like 7 from like 1:00 a.m.
until 7:00 p.m.
That's what I know.
>> Yeah. I mean, like Sheila said, Ally had one job to do, and that was to remove Colin from the house, and she puts John in the house instead.
>> And what why does that matter?
>> Because that means John was in the house. And they all [snorts] said John never came in the house. If John never came in the house, then Karen hit him and he couldn't have been hurt in the house. Like Karen says, >> "Oh, >> tell him the guy never came in the house."
>> Okay, now I see.
>> By her slipping up, she went against the whole family story.
>> Now it makes a lot more sense. I had never thought about that.
>> Yeah, she her slipping up >> changes the whole family story. And she knew if you watch her face >> when she said it, she was like, "Oh shit." And then she used the harassment part to start crying.
>> So >> hard tool. What's a hard tool? A hammer.
She said that's what I heard too.
>> Thank you. Thank you, Dusty. I see. Now John doesn't come in the house. It keeps the family from being investigated or involved. I get it.
>> Which is why they never went in the house to search because he was on the lawn and they said he never came in the house.
But that is why Ally was not brought up to testify in the second trial because she messed up the first trial. They didn't want her messing up again.
But she is on the list to depose for the civil trial. So, she has to keep that story exactly the way it was that she told on the stand two years ago.
>> I I don't know if the civil trial is gonna make it.
>> Huh.
>> I think that's why the I think that's why the um uh defamation suits got started.
>> I think the civil trial is going to go.
I think that it is I think that both of them will go through. I don't think that I think that they waited until 2 days before the um statute of limitations to come after it's more after Turtle Boy than than Karen, but it's a way to try to con try to keep the Commonwealth on the conspiracy between Aiden and Karen that's not there because they've been trying to charge them since before the first trial on a conspiracy to commit witness intimidation.
It's so weird. That's so weird.
>> It's Massachusetts.
>> Oh my god.
>> It's stupid.
>> Yeah.
Like it's why I'm not allowed there.
>> I I'm scared to go there. Hell, I've been told I slept to sleep with people and I never even been there >> in Massachusetts.
>> Yeah, I was on X. Someone's just knows.
Side eye knows.
>> Um, >> well, side eye, she caused a lot of trouble.
>> No, she stood up for me because I I had someone calling me out on X telling me >> that I was in Massachusetts.
>> Someone was on >> and I tried on X.
>> I was on X. You know, Twitter, the tweet tweet machine, the tweet plot.
>> No, I was thinking about the drug. Oh, no. Apparent. No, I'm not. I'm not on that. Although that would be awful.
>> That's what you were talking about.
That's why you were having sex.
Massachusetts. You were on ecstasy.
>> Yes, Courtney. I was accused of trying to sleep with the glarer. But I've never been to Massachusetts, nor have I ever met the glarer.
>> Apparently, I was the one that was trying to do that. I'm in Florida, so that's Huh.
>> Smoke.
I don't know why I I I know who accused me of it. I think it's crap, but um I made the guy give me a public apology.
>> Do what?
>> I made the guy who accused me of or who's who called me out on X ap publicly apologized to me for what he said.
But I know who started the rumor.
>> I don't It's funny. People tell me things like this. I'm like, I don't see any of this stuff. I never seen >> Jess did just went after him in my com in comments cuz she saw them saying stuff about me.
>> You can't trust her. She's >> Yeah, she No, I do trust her. She had She had my back.
>> Do you know?
Never mind.
[laughter] >> Do I know what?
>> Nothing. Nothing. I can't share.
I can't share it. So, are you coming to Dollywood?
June 3rd.
>> I I don't I don't know. I have to get my I'm gonna try with my husband.
>> Well, I just got I just went to Portland um for >> So, you're trying to say like that is better than Dollywood. I used to live in Portland. I will never go back there again. Holy cow. Portland is like I would really I'll tell I'll go to Boston before I go to Portland.
>> I really don't want to talk. Uh oh, there's chatter in the background. Now we're in trouble.
>> No, he's my husband. He's laying in bed.
>> Oh, you're laying in bed >> on the phone. On the thing?
>> Yes.
>> Well, you're not supposed to do that.
>> No, I feel like this is a >> Yeah, I know. I need to go to bed. I really do need >> I was trying to help you cuz you were scared and and lonely.
>> Well, no. Now I know. No, it was cuz I was confused. But now see is the Karen uh thing. If he went in the house then Karen didn't hit him.
>> I promise you. I know that sounds so simple for y'all but so into this and like it's so confusing because for me because there's so many different directions >> and I'm just like I try to focus on what is saying at the time. Being that you're coming in after the fact, it's hard because it does go up in different tree branches kind of thing where when we watched it, we watched it through the court case and we follow we were able to follow like on point with what they were saying. Does that make sense?
So, we didn't have all these different other scenarios going on.
>> I had Dollywood 1.0 you know, happening during the first round and the baker was on the lenai as he calls it >> um streaming.
>> He was streaming during your doing.
>> Yeah, the Karen retro.
>> That's funny.
>> It worked out for him. But I mean honestly like it is it's easier when you're watching the court cases at the from the beginning and you're watching along because everyone is at the same place where you're at now is we already all know. So you're trying to catch up.
>> No, I don't want to catch up. Like it has nothing to do with any of that. I don't care about any of this stuff. It's [laughter] all No, it's all it's all fake. Okay. I know all this is make believe and you guys are all in this together and you're trying to trick me now into thinking like I wanted to find out about this. I didn't want to find out about any of this stuff. It's all a big fooy fakeness and it all started Baker got everybody started. He's got he he and Emily got together said he's like, "Hey, hey, I want you to uh mess up with the Xbox because he is uh a squirrel." And she like thought, "Oh my gosh, that's going to be hilarious. Yes, I will do it." And [music]
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