Kwasi Kwarteng Urges Caution in Responding to Xenophobia in South Africa | Breakfast Daily

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:01]South Africa.

[00:00:02]I I was in South Africa uh last uh I think it was February right after our primise.

[00:00:11]>> Okay.

[00:00:11]>> I quickly had to run away to go and seek small there.

[00:00:18]The pressure was too much.

[00:00:20]>> So sometime and I also wanted to take advantage and make some inquiries in of Cape Town.

[00:00:26]>> Okay. And my experience that I don't like it >> and I've also spoken to a lot of people.

[00:00:32]If you assemble 100 people who have visited South Africa, chances are that you get all hundred of them having very bad encounter.

[00:00:41]>> Yeah.

[00:00:42]>> Wow.

[00:00:42]>> In South Africa. Yes. So I asked myself why people even go there. If it's on grounds of economic fortunes, we probably have to do an audit economic analysis, lifestyle analysis. to assess the outcome of those expectations whether indeed it ties with the perceptions that drives people there.

[00:01:06]you because I when I was in South Africa I had a mate whose name I shall live I mentioned and he he visited me in my hotel we we made rounds together I mean I I don't have his permission to this but I just want to put it in a context not necessarily to uh make him look bad but when he escorted me to the airport I had to order Uber >> for him >> for him yes >> when we go and eat >> Mhm. You have to pay.

[00:01:36]>> I have to pay. I mean, I've had those experiences in in with my friends in London. But you see, for them, the perception is that politically exposed, you are a big man.

[00:01:46]>> You're a big man.

[00:01:50]>> But but but but for my friend in South Africa, it was a place of of genuine need.

[00:01:55]>> Mhm.

[00:01:56]>> Apparently, I had $500 in my wallet that I called him to come for it.

[00:02:01]>> But interestingly, >> Mhm. the the ninth few hours to the time that I'll go and board my my flight >> my flight we stepped out briefly >> and I don't know whether they use juju or something the wallet gone missing >> wow the crime rate in South Africa >> the the not only crime beyond the crime rate the violent crime rate in South Africa is unmatched >> all over the world you can google it >> all over the world Africa as I speak with you now if you look at their police data every Yeah. In terms of recorded killings and murders, 27,000. That's about 75 a day.

[00:02:38]>> Wow. Every day in South Africa, there are about 75 people that are murdered in broad daylight and nothing happens.

[00:02:47]So I mean >> and they claim foreigners are the ones.

[00:02:50]>> So because these are these are sentiments that are exploited by politicians and politically exposed individuals especially when it's getting close to lessons. Mhm.

[00:02:59]>> I give you example for instance how usually getting to election >> matters that are very sensitive to Ghanaians become issue. One was for the Galam matter how you people used to pass >> all of a sudden you don't talk about Gam it's not stop so it's a similar thing >> usually getting close to elections you have politically exposed individuals and politicians exposing that >> the foreign migrants are the people taking your jobs. Mhm.

[00:03:29]>> So it gets the people angry.

[00:03:32]>> Yeah.

[00:03:32]>> You know Ghana for instance we have a GIC act and the GIC act foreign nationals are not supposed to do certain business retail. In South Africa they don't have one specific law >> with that regard like the GIC but those laws reflect in their immigration laws uh business statutes and other laws. So they can argue from all sides. So they hide another ber of this law and then weaponize their citizens.

[00:03:57]>> And instead of solving the deep structural inefficiencies on job creation, the the poverty inequality, addressing those concerns, they they then use the the the ostrich approach and blame foreign nationals and then weaponize such sent sentiments and bingo their citizens goes after them. So it's a it's a recycle thing and if you have noticed it it's only always comes up usually getting to le >> it always comes up getting into lesson but I mean I try to do some readings and try to understand them for for you see there's a temptation for people to be angry and react in same measure >> me I'll call on the rest of the African communities to be a bit sec >> and of course I mean honorable disagree on this maybe probably we still have to use the diplomatic approach >> uh diplom diplomatic approach does not necessarily mean that we are going to just laugh with you.

[00:04:54]>> We can also be firm even in our application of diplomatic approach.

[00:04:59]>> I I I understand you need time to you need to understand the problem >> and the people of South Africa. You need to understand their problem.

[00:05:06]>> First of all, you look at a country like South Africa, they just had independence in 1994, right?

[00:05:12]>> Yeah.

[00:05:12]>> I mean, I'm even older than I say I'm a young person, but I'm older than I'm older than South Africa. But before that predating that and even during the time of independence the only legacy South Africa had was apartheite legacy.

[00:05:26]>> Yeah.

[00:05:27]>> The apartide legacy there was no jobs >> in South Africa.

[00:05:31]>> The inequality gap was so wide and as of now in terms of the inequality gap between the rich and the poor. South Africa is the highest in the whole world.

[00:05:41]>> You go beyond that no proper housing regime.

[00:05:44]>> Yeah.

[00:05:44]>> No power proper power. We are suffering from those they are suffering from the same thing because they rely on Namibia >> and when Namibia doesn't have access and Tanzania to to give to them the whole country goes off >> then they had higher expectations just like from when from our independent days when declared forever so people thought that we are going to when you are sleeping they will be putting milk and honey in your mouth >> then the expectations were not met Aside from that part legacy, they were then confronted with the reality. The inequality gap continued to be widened and even more before than even the pre apatite days.

[00:06:29]>> No housing regime, >> no proper employment, no jobs. And indeed beyond employment, some of them are even non-employable.

[00:06:37]>> Mhm.

[00:06:37]>> Cuz they they don't have the skills.

[00:06:38]>> They don't have the skills and those who are employed too are underemployed.

[00:06:42]>> And a lot of people are not employed. I I check their unemployment data compared to Ghana we are doing around 13%. South Africa is doing 31%.

[00:06:50]>> Wow.

[00:06:51]>> Yeah.

[00:06:51]>> 31%. So me I don't get the basis why people are still even going there and so you you have this structural inefficiencies structural cracks instead of addressing them. Usually when is getting to election year they said no it is the Nigerians and the Ghanaians that is causing this problem. So that the politicians now absolve themselves from from blame. In 2008, some of this incitement led to about 60 deaths. And these are context. These are the recorded ones.

[00:07:21]>> There are some which are not even recorded and reported.

[00:07:24]>> Then back in 2019, they did the same thing. If you recall, even Nigeria was supposed to attend the World Economic Forum. They even boycotted it.

[00:07:31]>> Yeah.

[00:07:32]>> And now up to now. So it's it's almost been like a sequence. Every year is the same cycle just like the flat situation that we have here.

[00:07:41]We'll sit and discuss flat drawing a lot of similarities.

[00:07:44]>> Yes. Inferences and I mean they will fix it. They have to they and we find ourselves here.

[00:07:57]>> So for me this is my my view. I am aware and I've read that Mr. Black foreign affairs minister and I commend him for that. He has uh uh made a petition, submitted a petition before the AU.

[00:08:10]>> AU as a matter of agency should summon South Africa.

[00:08:14]>> They not doing it. You see, you see the ladical attitude.

[00:08:17]>> This should have been an emergency AU organized.

[00:08:20]>> Yeah.

[00:08:20]>> Yeah.

[00:08:21]>> They should as a matter of emergency summon them and look into their faces and tell that we are giving you a week to solve this. We don't want a repetition again. If you do that, we are going to make sure in our capacity as if we are going to s you.

[00:08:33]>> Mhm. And I'm sure maybe that yes, it's a it's a diplomatic route but with firmness and and some form of alacity to be able to address the situation. And for me, I believe that >> until first of all in the medium term we do that >> and until probably we all help South Africa to address the structural and deep rooted inefficiencies and crash will not help them again.

[00:08:58]>> We are tired of liberating them. Look at what they doing to them to us. You see you are you are you are dealing with the people who doesn't have the same mindset as yours.

[00:09:08]>> You see these are people who all their lives have been made to believe that people have cheated them >> from the prearted ages and that all they know is to fight >> and get what they are rightfully is rightly meant to them.

[00:09:23]>> Yeah.

[00:09:23]>> South Africans don't fear blood.

[00:09:25]>> South Africans are not afraid to to die.

[00:09:27]That is and for me I mean this thing there there usually I ask myself one question. So is it the case that there is an intelligence failure on the part of the security >> they are part of >> they are part of it other than that it cannot be that >> anytime group of people it's not like one or two you have about 100 500 >> they plan and march up to a locality >> with the whole aim of going to attack >> foreign nationals >> who has been scapegoed >> for that is the right they have been scapegoed for the structural inefficiencies within their own I mean you ask yourself >> all these videos I have not seen a single video where there's even one soldier or the military trying to prevent what what is going on.

[00:10:19]I have an experience as at now there's a South African police that I met an issue where my wallet got missing reported as at now he sits in South Africa and demand money from me that oh you didn't sort me out he's still with you he still calls me so >> if you understand their problem if you understand their problem you sympathize with them you will sympathize $500 is gone he's still demanding money >> they were helping me to search for the wallet and I don't have anything for him So you know I have to catch a flight.

[00:10:50]Let me get to Ghana. He took my number.

[00:10:52]I don't want to mention his name on TV.

[00:10:53]He still text me.

[00:10:55]>> How far my brother? This is this. So I was not responding to his number. Use a different number.

[00:11:03]>> No, the problem is bigger than compared South Africa to Ghana.

[00:11:08]coming.