"It Was DISCRIMINATION" | Charity U-turn on Banned Choir at London Marathon

Added: 2026-05-08

[00:00:00]But I want to talk about something a little bit different. It is to do with a journalist and singer choir leader called Janet Murray who joins me now. Hi Janet.

[00:00:08]>> Hello. Hi >> Janet. Uh the London Marathon was on Sunday. You did actually sing there but it was uh some to uh encourage the people along. You've done that for the last couple of years. You were going to do it for a charity called Scope which deals with uh disabled people. Tell us what happened. So we have supported scope for the last couple of years.

[00:00:30]We're a choir that specializes in singing at running events and particularly um supporting charity runners. So people who were raising money for good causes. So last couple of years we were invited to sing with the disability charity scope. All went well.

[00:00:42]We had a great time, loads of fun. We were at mile three and then last week we we were invited back again this year and I got an email on Tuesday. actually picked it up on Wednesday that said um we were they no longer wished us to perform at the marathon and it said something about equality and diversity and and not being in line with their values. Um so I I sent an email quite a long letter um and and pointed out that this was >> you weren't you weren't in in you were counseledled essentially. You weren't you weren't in line with our values.

[00:01:15]>> We were cancelled. We were we were silenced. Yes. And >> why? Well, because I I believe that men and men are men and men and women and women and radical radical radical.

[00:01:24]>> So does the Supreme Court.

[00:01:25]>> Yes. Yes. And I have expressed these really radical views um publicly and I've defended women's sexbased rights and spaces, you know, their right to have their own changing rooms, toilets, other intimate spaces. And apparently this goes against their equality and diversity policies. Now I did suspect that might be what it was. Um, but I did follow up with a letter that pointed out that if that was the case, it was discrimination. And I asked for a call with the CEO and I was I have to say I was expecting that they might have a chat with their lawyers and the lawyer would agree it was discrimination and we'd be able to deal with it quietly because most of all, I didn't want to upset the singers because we're all about the music and singing together.

[00:02:09]>> Are you are you singing at all about women's rights or men's rights?

[00:02:12]>> Like we never ever have. I've had these views for, you know, the last couple of years when I've been singing for Scope.

[00:02:16]I I've never said anything or done anything. I couldn't tell you um what most of the people in in the choir think about it. It's not anything we've we've ever talked about. And you know, we we're just there to sing and have fun and cheer the runners on.

[00:02:29]>> So, you're basically I mean, you do get some expenses, but you're basically doing this out of the goodness of your heart. You're trying to raise money for school. How much have you raised for them over the last few years? Well, they have raised I think last year it was about 300,000 but but basically they're we're there with them on their pitch and their cheer as part of their cheer squad and the idea is you know we're there we've put the scope t-shirts on before and those like sticks that you bang together and we're there to encourage them on and and support them on and create a bit of buzz. Um and so I like to think that we we did a good job and we helped them. In fact, they told us we did a good job and you know they sent an email said we love what you did over the last few years. Um so in this conversation with the CEO um I did ask him you know what what are you concerned about and he kept saying um that I would be a distraction and I kept saying what do you mean by a distraction? Do you think I'm going to jump up and say you know trans women are men or do you think I'm going to drape myself in a suffragette flag or do you think I'm going to you know I've never done anything like that before. all we do is we come along and we sing, we leave the politics at home. And he just kept saying that I would be a distraction.

[00:03:30]And I did ask him, um, if I, for example, if I volunteered at a charity shop, uh, for Scope or if I wanted to come and work for Scope, are you saying that I couldn't hold these views?

[00:03:43]>> And he didn't exactly reply. He kept telling me that these were hypothetical questions, >> but perfectly reasonable questions.

[00:03:50]>> Yeah, I would argue.

[00:03:51]>> Yeah, reasonable questions. And uh we didn't really get to the bottom of it, but my impression was that um you were allowed to think it, but you weren't allowed to say it, which is quite kind of um Orwellian and >> but it's also that we're talking about the law of the land here as well. We're talking about the Supreme Court's interpretation and you're you're on on the Supreme Court side. Scope clearly isn't um in in certainly how they've dealt with this. So what h what actually happened then? Because you did actually sing. So we did sing but we were due to sing at mile three um with their cheer squad and eventually they did reverse the decision. Took quite some doing including conversations between lawyers um and eventually at 6 p.m. um the night before the marathon. Uh we we got a very mely mouthed public sort of apology. It wasn't really an apology. It it still sort of suggested that my views alienated people, but it did acknowledge that they were my views and not the views of the rest of the choir.

[00:04:48]>> I mean, the great the great irony in this I'm someone who uh worked in communications for a while, worked uh in as a special adviser for three and a half years. I mean, this is sort of the strand effect here, isn't it? I mean, you you've kind of been given a megaphone for your views because of this nonsense from scope. They're your views are totally legitimate. I agree with them by the way, but th this has backfired on them massively. There's a load of publicity about this and a load of people will say, "Hold on a second.

[00:05:15]You have a totally legal, rational view.

[00:05:18]Okay, some people disagree with you.

[00:05:19]That's fine.

[00:05:20]>> But it's nothing to do with singing."

[00:05:23]>> No. And and and even in the conversation with the CEO, I said to him, you know, have you had any concerns about anything we've done in the past, me or anybody else? No. He had no concerns whatsoever.

[00:05:33]Two anonymous complaints were made apparently. And so two complaints um and ironically, you know, I guess his point was that they were concerned about those complaints. I did say to him, "Are you worried that somebody's going to turn up and disrupt?" Like if they'd said to me, "We're worried that, you know, trans activists are going to turn up and disrupt." I asked him that outright and he said no. He wasn't concerned about that. It was all about me being a distraction. So, not only is it discriminating against me for lawfully held views and let's face it, widely held sensible normal views that the majority of people, >> vast majority of people agree.

[00:06:07]>> What what what so many people forget is I'm sorry to to sort of manplain this, but what so many people forget is that about 95% of the country agree with you and JK Rowling and various I mean that this is absolutely mainstream opinion here. John McLaclin who is the chief executive of scope uh said this on Saturday. We did ask the this is I mean we're through the looking glass here. We asked the press office for a statement.

[00:06:31]Of course, we want to give them right a reply and the reason they took a while to get back to us is because it's their diversity awards today and everybody was busy. Yes, really. I mean, this is this is Britain in 2026. John McGlaughlin, who's chief executive of scope, said on Saturday, uh they not nothing more to say since Saturday. On reflection, we would like to restore our invitation to the choir to attend the marathon tomorrow and perform for runners if they choose to do so. We accept that the choir as a group does not promote a specific viewpoint and that the perform performance in itself doesn't undermine our values. That's good of him, isn't it? Uh this decision has been made without prejudice and reflects our appreciation of the right of individuals to hold protected beliefs under the Equality Act 2010. Gender critical views are highly polarizing and we are sensitive to the fact that for some of our valued members, supporters, and colleagues, gender critical beliefs may be deeply unsettling and alienating. We are here to support anyone who's been affected and we will provide additional support through our supporter care team.

[00:07:22]We're looking forward to celebrating our runners and supporters at the London Marathon. What do you make of that?

[00:07:27]>> Well, I did try to to see if they would support me on the supporter care line, but they weren't interested. No, I mean it's it these are lawfully held completely mainstream views and they're making them sound like they are they are extreme that they're distressing to people. It's it's very very strange. And just to add, we did end up singing but by that stage Saturday night 6:00 only one of our regular singers who was due to sing felt comfortable. You can imagine how of course all of this they've done nothing wrong. So was it just the two of you?

[00:07:56]>> So so we we managed to pull together some other singers eight nine of us but we we decided that um we would go to another location. We sang. We had a great time. It felt really important just to show up and and sing. Um but we um it did sort of s a bit and it was a bit sad because what are you going to do next? We didn't have our regular I don't know. I mean, we're still kind of, you know, it's been a bit shocking really to deal with it and and it is, it has kind of put the future of the choir in jeopardy. People are upset. They're worried. People are worried about getting called in. I mean, it's just ridiculous, isn't it? But they're worried about getting called in to have conversations with their bosses because, you know, they've heard about Sandy Peggy. They've heard about the Darlington nurses. And while it shouldn't matter what they do in the spare time or who they assoc associate with, even really dangerous people with that dangerous dangerous that awful woman, my goodness, jealous. It shouldn't matter, but they've seen enough of these crazy stories. Um, and I completely understand.

[00:08:48]>> Well, we're slightly joking about it, but it is it is so serious and people are getting cancelled all the time. Uh, Janet, our the name of this station is talk. It is not sing. We do not usually do music, but I want to hear your beautiful singing voice.

[00:09:00]>> Well, you said you'd join in with me, didn't you?

[00:09:01]>> I did. I did. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if that's a good thing. I don't know if that will put people off.

[00:09:05]>> And our repertoire is generally running the songs. Rewritten the Born. Yeah. So, yeah, we tried that one. It's quite hard that one. It is quite hard. hard to sing that song. So, um, we do a version of status quo, rocking all over the world.

[00:09:16]We do running out all over the world.

[00:09:18]So, if you want to join, join in with me, >> running all over the world. Well, I'd love to hear that at the London Marathon next year. I hope it happens and I hope Scope come to their senses and I hope it gets all properly sorted out and common sense prevails. Janet, listen, thank you very, very much for coming on this.

[00:09:35]Janet Murray, journalist and the choir leader, and I do sincerely apologize for my singing, but not Janice, who has a lovely voice. What do you think of that?

[00:09:43]What do you think of that story? Let me know your thoughts. 0344991000.

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