The Honourable The House of Assembly - Friday, 8th May, 2026 - Part 1

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:03:09]Let us pray.

[00:03:12]Almighty and all merciful God, through Jesus Christ, you have taught us to love one another, to love our neighbors as ourselves, and even love our enemies.

[00:03:24]where there's violence and fear. Let the peace and hope of Christ rule in our hearts so it may not be overcome with evil or overcome evil with good.

[00:03:35]Establish among us the values of your kingdom where truth reigns, justice is done, and all are reconciled in love.

[00:03:46]When we put the intentions of our prayers into action by the way we live, may we live in the hope of our prayers by teaching ourselves and our children how to live in peace with one another and to work through our differences and seek after noble enterprise according to the gifts you have given us. All this we ask in Jesus Christ our Lord. Amen.

[00:04:12]Let's say the Lord's prayer. Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those that trespass against us, and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil. For thine is the kingdom, the power, and the glory forever and ever.

[00:04:37]Amen.

[00:05:30]This house is in session. Minutes of the meeting held on Wednesday 29th April 2026 to be deferred. Honorable leader of business.

[00:05:38]>> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I beg to move that your fores said minutes be deferred. The question is that the affformentioned minutes be deferred. All those honorable members in favor please say I.

[00:05:47]>> Those against please say no. We think the eyes have it. The affformentioned minutes are hereby deferred.

[00:05:57]>> Announcements by your honor the speaker.

[00:06:01]Messages from his excellency the president. Petitions papers.

[00:06:09]Honorable Minister of Government Business.

[00:06:16]>> Mr. Speaker, I'm commanded to lay the annual reports and audited financial statements of the Barbadus Aircraft and Aviation Services Company Limited for the years ending March 31st, 2024 and March 31st, 2025. I'm also commanded to lay the corporation topup tax designated of designation of competent authority and globe information returns regulations 2026 government notices notice ES of questions, report from select committees, first readings of bills, statements by ministers, congratulatory and orbitary speeches, personal explanations, motions for leave of absence, oral replies to questions, notices of motions for the adjournment of the house on matters of urgent public importance.

[00:07:26]Orders of the day. Honorable lead the government business.

[00:07:29]>> Mr. Speaker, I beg to move the suspension of standing orders 6, 16, 18, 20, 42 subsection 5, 43, and 44 for the remainder of the day sitting.

[00:07:39]>> The question is that the affformentioned standing orders be suspended for the remainder of the day sitting. All those members in favor, please say I. I.

[00:07:47]>> Those against, please say no. We think the affforementioned standing orders are hereby suspended for the remainder of the day sitting.

[00:07:56]Private members business sir in the name of the honorable member for St. George North to resume the debate on the passing of a resolution that the honorable the house a supports the establishment of a national portable benefits framework through the national insurance security social security service that ensures that social security follows the worker and not the job. B calls for the development and the implementation of the supporting administrative technological and enforcement measures necessary to ensure that the framework is effective, equitable, and accessible.

[00:08:44]and C commits Barbados in its fifth year as a republic to affirming that portable benefits constitute an act of nation building and a people's centered investment in fairness, resilience and social stability so that no worker is rendered invisible. No worker is left behind me central.

[00:09:12]Thank you, Mr. Speaker.

[00:09:16]Sir, it is an honor for me to rise in this debate on this resolution. And at the outset, I congratulate the member for St. George North on using this particular tool of this chamber in order to bring into the consciousness of her fellow members and through you the people of Barbados.

[00:09:58]This question of the changing nature of work, the changing structure of our societies and the way in which therefore we have to adjust and we have to make sure that we are fit for purpose in supporting the needs of workers in this country.

[00:10:20]And so I am pleased to be able to rise in support of this resolution that ultimately seeks the establishment of a national portable benefits framework as a new approach to social security, to benefits, to pensions, uh to the other kinds of support, maternity ity, disability, all of the other kinds of things that people will need to find have access to in the fulfillment and of their lives as workers and as people.

[00:11:06]Sir, there is a new and growing global conversation on work.

[00:11:15]We see that in some parts of the world there has been a move to a 4-day work week. I know that will find favor with many people.

[00:11:27]Uh but that is a question too sir of how we structure ourselves to be productive and so I will not go too far into that part of the conversation.

[00:11:41]But those societies that have found it necessary or have found it prudent to rearrange the way that we work so that we are also able to arrange our lives for other productive purposes and other purposes that may not be as productive as we think. You know in development economics sir we talk about leisure time as a good and one of the things that we know is that people who are poor do not really have leisure time but it is a good it is a benefit. It is something that has value.

[00:12:25]And so there is a global conversation on how people how we all organize ourselves for the work that we need to do for the work that we find useful but also for the other parts of our lives whether it is participating in a household reproductive activities because let me be clear that raising a household is productive work. It is not just reproductive work. It is productive work.

[00:12:52]And so it is my judgment sir that this resolution comes at a time when we are finding ourselves current with the global conversation. But sir, there's also a new conversation on productivity.

[00:13:11]The honorable member for St. Peter is now famous for for this discussion about production and protection. He's less famous for letting you know that it emerged from a conversation that he and I had on the issue of protection and productivity, you know.

[00:13:42]I am part of a Barbados Labor Party government that does not resile or does not hide away the fact that we are a Labor party and that we consider that work and conversations with labor and cocreation of the lives we want to live with the labor movement and with workers is what brought us here.

[00:14:13]Uh I think some people conflate that.

[00:14:15]Some people think that to be together with labor means that you were somehow in collusion with labor. That be to be together with labor means that somehow labor is less able or somehow the the the labor movement is less able to serve its carry out its mandate of protection.

[00:14:36]That is that could not be further from the truth. And I think we have to start to modernize the way in which we see government or the state's relationship with the labor movement. We are part of a tripartite system of government. Well, that can only be the ideal way to govern where labor sits right there at the table with government in considering what are the measures, what are the policies, what are the ways of working that work best for workers at the same time that it works best for the state.

[00:15:07]And let me emphasize that at the same time that it works best for the state.

[00:15:15]So yes protection and yes rights but also productivity and also responsibility protection and productivity rights and responsibility.

[00:15:29]So I start there sir because I believe that that is a new conversation that we have to have and the notion that the two are separate and that a labor movement cannot at the same time seek to protect and defend workers rights while also emphasizing that we have a commitment to the country to all be productive in our various roles. We have to disabuse ourselves of the notion that those two cannot coexist because in fact they must coexist.

[00:16:10]The Ministry of Economic Affairs is now working to bring a new competitiveness and productivity commission.

[00:16:23]And the reason we found it necessary so to do is that Barbados is losing the battle on productivity.

[00:16:35]And when we talk productivity, we're not just talking about worker productivity.

[00:16:39]We are talking about the productivity of all the systems that support the worker, but with which the worker interacts as well.

[00:16:50]But the fact is that we are losing the fight in some ways on productivity.

[00:16:55]And we know that if we are to succeed that we need to make sure that we are doing all that is necessary to cause us all to be productive and to contribute everything that we need to for us for us to be productive. But sir, it's a multifaceted idea. And I may sound to you as if I am digressing a bit, but I promise you I am not.

[00:17:23]The idea of productivity is a multifaceted one.

[00:17:27]Um because it also has to do with the idea of order and predictability. And that is one of the things that this resolution highlights for us that there needs to be a certain level of predictability in what people can come to expect in their benefits.

[00:17:47]So very early in my career, I decided to become a self-employed person. And I'll tell you why. I started out working within the UN system as an economist.

[00:17:57]And I very quickly realized that the services that I had to offer were in demand by more people than the United Nations. And in fact, holding a job with that particular agency was stopping me from doing all kinds of far more exciting work with other people.

[00:18:18]And so I had a conversation with the person who hired me at the time and I said I had I read all of the different kinds of contracts that were available at the time and I said look uh I like this work and I like this job and and we have to what this resolution causes us to do is to separate the job from work.

[00:18:47]A job is a thing that exists in a place.

[00:18:49]My work and how I fulfill myself through work is something that I carry with me.

[00:18:55]And so I said to them, look, I feel that I can go and and also do this work in St. Vincent and the Grenadines with the government there or also do this work in Jamaica with the government there and and it helps us with what we want to achieve. And so I want to vary the nature of my contract and I want to be a consultant.

[00:19:16]And there are those who thought that that was a terrible idea. And I soon came to find out why.

[00:19:21]And the reason that it turned out to not be the best idea if for the for the for the context in which we live is that people don't understand a person who is a consultant who is not attached to a particular institution.

[00:19:38]Sir, in many ways we still have almost a plantation mentality.

[00:19:50]It's almost like asking somebody, "Well, who you concerned?

[00:19:54]How can you be floating about in life not attached to a place?" And I'll tell you what I mean. Even though I ended up earning far more in that role where I was able to work for different have different clients and work in different institutions. When I approached a financial institution when I went to the bank or to the credit union and said look I want to borrow some money to do X or do Y help my mother fix the house.

[00:20:26]When you look at the form that you have to complete, who is your employer? What is the address?

[00:20:35]So, your employer can't exist in a digital space at all. I need to know where the employer can be found. What is the employer's address? What is the phone number?

[00:20:46]So, right from the outset, my value as a worker, my identity as a worker is tied up in somebody else's business.

[00:20:56]And so notwithstanding that I was making double what I would have been writing on their form if I were still in that job, there was nothing for me.

[00:21:08]We cannot lend you a scent because when we're ready to collect our money, we have to know who to come and knock, who doors to come and knock to send the bay back from 9 to5.

[00:21:21]We have to know that you are a worthy worker as mandated or as identified by somebody else. Well, that must be a plantation mentality because you can't believe me that I show you what I've earned over the past 12 months in a consistent way, that I am paying my bills in a reliable way.

[00:21:46]And so this resolution why it is so transformational is that it is not just calling on the National Insurance Social Security Service to act in the ways laid out here. But it is calling on all of us to act as a society to understand how work is changing. It is calling to on the financial institutions to act because it means that we now have to vary and make more nuanced and make more complex but sometimes complexity is necessary. Sometimes sophistication in our systems is necessary to be able to accommodate people because I will tell you whether it is construction and people who do steel bending or people who do whatever it is that that the work that they do, people who do tiling, people who do or it is economics and people who are offering services to government or it is project management.

[00:22:52]Even when I go and set up a company and I tell them I am the sole director and I am the s sole shareholder. They don't trust me.

[00:23:03]They don't trust me. They want to see something that has been around for 200 years, for 50 years, for 25 years. They want to know that I have a boss who is telling them that I am a worthwhile individual.

[00:23:16]In 2026, in the fifth year of Barbados Bayan Republic, that is where we find ourselves.

[00:23:25]And that is what this resolution is saying must change to accommodate how people work, but also to accommodate the fact that people work in different areas over time.

[00:23:39]It may come back to haunt me that I say what I'm about to say, but this job that I hold now as the happy representative of the people of St. Michael South Central is the longest job that I have had and long may it continue and long may it continue. But the point I'm making sir is that people of my generation and people of of younger generations.

[00:24:10]Go to some a place for 3 years, 4 years, 5 years. Learn everything inside and out. Learn it from top to bottom. Learn how to unlock the door. Learn how to mop the floor. Learn how to do everything.

[00:24:24]May they may even become the CEO or the head of agency or whatever it is. They learn right through and they say, "You know what? I know how this works. I have this covered. I am ready to move on to something else. That is the nature of how people work. I think of my mother, sir, who worked at the knitting mill as a seamstress early on.

[00:24:53]She also worked when she became qualified as a nursing assistant at the geriatric hospital. She also worked as a child care attendant and she was carrying the work of care throughout different jobs.

[00:25:15]And so we need to have a social security system that says to people, we are we are providing services to the worker, not to the job. We're not defining you just in your relationship to a single employer.

[00:25:31]A system that allows for several different employers to contribute at once.

[00:25:39]A system that allows more synchronicity or a seamless movement between different jobs to make sure that there is no lapse. There's no lag. There's no I don't have to go and check and recheck and reregister to see what has happened to my benefits. We simply have to make it easier for people to live the lives that they value. And the life that I value might be that I work as a photographer for the member for Christ Church South. And then I work as a graphic artist for the member for Christ Church West and then I also work as an MC for the member for St. Peter.

[00:26:21]Collectively I give one three hours a day. I give another one or I give one two days a week and I give another one three days a week and I know that I am able to have my all of those all of that work count.

[00:26:37]The system that we have now simply doesn't allow for that. And arguably the system that we have now makes the employer employee relationship less about the worker and more about the system as if we are servicing a system. We are not servicing a system. We are servicing people.

[00:26:59]And so it becomes necessary for us to be able to set ourselves up to be able to service those people. But sir, the member for St. George North will also realize that this calls for a reconsideration of the existing Employment Rights Act.

[00:27:29]And in preparing sir for this debate and in reviewing that legislation, it struck me that it contains a lot of rigidity in its definitions and in the way in which we see this notion of the employer.

[00:27:51]What does it mean for a person to be an employee?

[00:27:57]It is quite rigid. And if we are to make way for a system where benefits follow the worker and not the job, then it is going to mean a reconsideration of how we treat that act. It it it will possibly mean some revisions to the legislation such that we have more so such that it allows for more admits of more flexibility in some of the definitions and therefore of the treatment of work and people employer and employee.

[00:28:32]Quite frankly, consultants have clients and it may be that a client collectively with other clients will have a certain responsibility but it also is and I don't say maybe I say it also is true that the worker has a responsibility.

[00:28:59]My mother used to have this thing that she would say when I when I seem clueless about something uh if I when I reach a certain age you know we used to go to at the time it was Lady Me poly clinic it's now so Winston Scott and once I reached a certain age and I would say well I have an appointment I would say to her where is my card or where's my this or where's my that or mommy what can you know tell me remind me and she would say you at the age where you old enough to get up and about yourself.

[00:29:33]And I and I I think that we need to emphasize for for all of us that we got to stay ourselves when it comes to our benefits and making sure that we are protected.

[00:29:48]In my mind and I don't know if it is the intent but in my mind what the framework that is referenced in this re in this resolution will now require is that it is not fully in the hands of one company or one employer to decide my fate when it comes to benefits. it is now actually more fully in my hands to make sure that whomever are my clients uh if I offer services um who whomever are my different employers together with me I have to make sure that I am covered. I have to take a greater role in taking ownership of the benefits that will eventually occur to me or that the benefits that will acrue to me during my time as a worker in in whatever whether it's maternity or or uh sickness benefits or whatever it is.

[00:30:49]But this framework that this resolution calls for will mean that I as the individual have to take greater responsibility for understanding my benefits. It will mean too that the NISS will also have to intensify its education and public awareness of what and how what benefits exist and how these benefits work. And it will mean further that whatever are the digital systems that exist for people to uh to pay those benefits and to make sure those benefits exist also have to be strengthened.

[00:31:35]Sir, when we did the work to strengthen the NIS, the social security system a couple years ago to expand the ways in which self-employed people could contribute to expand the benefits to self-employed people and so on. I believe that that was the first step in getting us to where this resolution takes us. I believe that was the first step in understanding that work is changing, that the nature of work is changing. But I believe that was also the first step in giving people more agency, putting people more in charge of understanding their benefits. And I'll tell you why.

[00:32:22]All of us in here who represent people and who sit with people weekly.

[00:32:32]Constituents come to us. We know this to be a challenge that a person will come and say, "I have been told by NIS that I do not have sufficient contributions and that and they will say to me often NIS has given me a payment.

[00:32:53]I am not getting any more than that. I'm not getting a monthly pension.

[00:32:58]That is a standard consideration. That's a standard conversation that we have all the time.

[00:33:06]And it says to me that we haven't yet reached the place. And to be fair to many of those individuals, they're at an age where they never got the opportunity to interact much with the NAS system. At least it in their working time it was not as modernized. It was not as accessible perhaps as it is now. But what has happened then is that people reach the pensionable age and realize that even though they have been working all their lives because contributions were not paid in under certain circumstances either because they didn't understand the nature of the arrangement or the employer did not do the right thing or some combination of those factors. The point is that they get to that point and there is very little recourse.

[00:34:02]And so a system that now allows for them to easily see that their benefits are following them through all the different phases of their work. I will have people come to me uh Mr. speaker and say I worked in that place and that place and that place and this place but there was never any way to track or there was never any attention to tracking to make sure that those benefits were following them and so there has to be you know the reason I I I I find this work exciting is that it allows us then to follow the worker through a person's life cycle so that they're they're always carrying with them and that's where the word portability comes in. They're always carrying with them the benefits and the protection that they deserve as workers in this country.

[00:35:10]But sir, these efforts and this conversation will always come back to productivity.

[00:35:20]And I started talking about predictability because what this does, what this framework referenced in this resolution does is it gives people predictability.

[00:35:33]I know that I have benefits that follow me.

[00:35:37]Notwithstanding where you have worked or for how long or in under what arrangements but and predictability sir you all has two more minutes.

[00:35:48]>> Thank you sir. Can contribute to productivity and let me put it in simple terms. If I feel safe in my work, if I know that I'm protected, if I know that I have benefits, then it means that I am likely to be able to be more productive because I am less anxious about what will happen if something happens to me.

[00:36:16]It is the kind of predictability that we keep saying that we want to have in the private sector for investors. is the kind of predictability that we say that we want to have for all services across government.

[00:36:29]And I dare say then sir that is the kind of predictability that we owe to workers even as we discuss this question of benefits and how they work. So sir, all that remains to be said by me is that I am pleased that we are giving this resolution the full length and breadth of debate that it deserves. But I also stand here to commit to the member for St. George North, as I'm sure the the member for St. Peter has done uh did when he spoke that those of us who are in government have to commit and commit through this resolution and through these this debate to move this to action.

[00:37:26]That is the purpose of instruments like this in this house.

[00:37:33]not just to resolve that it will happen but to commit our hearts and hands and feet and fingers to making sure that it happens. And sir, as I close, I give that commitment to this honorable chamber. I'm obliged to you, honorable Philip West.

[00:37:57]Mr. Speaker, thank you for allowing me the opportunity to add my voice of support to this portable social benefits resolution.

[00:38:07]I want to say sir today that I stand here wishing to be supportive of this resolution on behalf of the farmer in Ebenea and on behalf of the Mason in Chapel and countless others whose stories today sir might be very different had there been in place a structured framework for portable social security benefits, not just a structure in place, but one where that framework people were knowledgeable about it. In other words, they the information was available, widely available, that they could see themselves being a part of it and that in fact they felt that the benefits were meaningful to them. They knew that and that in fact they felt supported in becoming a part of it.

[00:39:08]And I share this sir because I see this proposal as more than just a policy. I see it as a pathway sir. A pathway to social security access for people who might not ordinarily get it. And it is also sir a pathway to peace of mind. Let me show share with you sir the story of some of the people in St. Philip West who sir are now at a pensionable age but they're running around trying to figure out what they will get to retire on.

[00:39:53]We should not have people in this situation but it is the reality.

[00:39:59]There's this gentleman sir he's in Ebenea. He started working in the private sector many years ago.

[00:40:07]Then he went into farming and he didn't see himself structured in a way. He didn't have enough information available to him. He did not identify with the kind of people who pay international insurance and so he didn't.

[00:40:32]What has happened is he has now been told that he does not have enough contributions to earn a pension. He's an older man, sir.

[00:40:42]He is out in the fields every day. He enjoys it but wish that he could take a break but he can't.

[00:40:50]He is now waiting on a decision as to how he will qualify for any benefits in his older years because he didn't have the level of contributions that would be recognized for him to get a livable pension.

[00:41:09]Then there's our mason in chapel sir.

[00:41:12]He's in a similar situation.

[00:41:15]He was working for a company and then he went and he learned a trade.

[00:41:21]He went into mer uh masonry and he did job work which means he went from one job to the other not working for any particular one of the clients but he was doing job work. Contributions were made from his original employer, but not enough for him to get an automatic pension. Again, we as a government and as a country are now encouraging people to learn skills.

[00:41:55]We are encouraging people into entrepreneurial activity and to various forms of self-employment.

[00:42:02]And Mr. Speaker, if we are serious and we are thinking long term, we must find a way for persons who would follow such paths as we are suggesting and encouraging. We must find a way for them to feel protected and to feel secure by national social services benefit.

[00:42:26]You know sir we are in a changing world of work and in a changing culture of working. There was a time sir when cradle to grave was the job that we took for 30 40 50 years.

[00:42:44]We are working full-time with a particular company and we are feeling secure in that.

[00:42:51]But sir, the current generation and you heard the honorable member who spoke recently before me talking about a different mindset of this current generation.

[00:43:03]This current generation they are navigating more fluid economies and they are seeking many different ways of financing their lives. The cradle to grave model that traditional full-time with one entity is not really the way in which many people choose to go in 2026.

[00:43:27]And sir, with that range of different models for working and financing life, we have to ensure sir that our current social security system and and um system as well as our current laws as well as the current ways in which we go about supporting people. It has those things have to evolve as well.

[00:43:56]Our current social security system does not make it easy in some way. In some places there is access but it is not always easy. That is what I am being told by my constituents. Sir, not always easy for them to be able to get the benefits they need when they are in situations where they have side hustles as when they have multiple little jobs and little hustles that they're doing. when they are doing occasional work in terms of they break a job here and they break a job there in terms of them having homebased businesses sir being self employed in terms of other types of informal work that they're doing whether they are also freelancers and graphic artists and other artists and and and and doing the kind of work that does not have the kind of stability that we have come to expect with the traditional cradletograve approach to how people do work. And because of all of these sir, we need to be have a structured national system for portal portable benefits that will give them the kind of peace of mind and give them the kind of opportunity to participate in a way that will help them to feel as if they are really and truly a valued part of this system.

[00:45:36]What this portable benefits framework proposes to do is that it seeks to ensure that people can in fact carry their benefits in their own name rather than in the name of an employer and that it stays with them.

[00:45:56]that those benefits they don't go through the stop and starts that happens now when people make transitions and that when transitions are made they in fact have a way of ensuring that they work for them.

[00:46:14]We have talked Mr. speaker about making people's lives better and certainly the opportunity is there in this resolution should we choose to go forward and I believe this government is a government that will commit.

[00:46:33]The opportunity is there for more people to have access to social security. More of them can pay in.

[00:46:44]It will ensure continuity that when they move from one job to the other on their own or as part of a team of a more formalized company that they can carry them that they will have enhanced true social security where they can have that peace of mind and that there's universal access that no matter what types of job how that job your employment is categorized you can have access to opportunities for better social security.

[00:47:19]And sir, I would say to you that portable benefits matter.

[00:47:27]It matters in a modern marketplace because it does a number of things.

[00:47:35]As we seek to develop a more flexible workforce, portable benefits will be an important part of the environment and the facilitating environment that we allow for that.

[00:47:50]As we seek to improve the financial security of the people, portable benefits will be a part of that as we seek to address issues of job lock. And when I talk about job lock, there are number of people who find themselves locked in a job. They want to move. They want to move on. They want to do something different. But because their social security benefits are tied, they feel like they're in a job lock.

[00:48:24]This resolution offers the opportunity for us to be able to overcome some of the challenges people face with regards to job law.

[00:48:36]This is also a part of modernizing our labor laws and our labor policy.

[00:48:44]We cannot say that we are staying current when in fact we allow our policy and our laws to remain in a time that is not relevant to now. And I will say to you sir that this resolution also offers the opportunity to increase talent competition.

[00:49:05]There is competition out there for talent sir and I believe that with portability benefits it will create an environment that will allow both government as well as private businesses to attract highquality independent workers in a very competitive market.

[00:49:27]Sir I end as I began.

[00:49:32]This policy is not just a policy. It is a pathway for everyone from my farmer in Ebenea to my Mason in Chapel to a number of the young people who are of a different generation who are seeing that cradle to grave is no longer the model they wish to follow in terms of how they finance their lives. And sir, because of what this resolution offers to Barbados in terms of developing our labor market, I thank you for the opportunity and I am supportive. I feel obliged for Christ Church East.

[00:50:16]>> Mr. Speaker, I take a particular pleasure in raising to speak on this resolution and I wish to commend the honorable member for St. George North on having the courage, the vision, the foresight and the inherent fairness in her heart to put this before the Parliament of Barbados and ultimately the people of Barbados.

[00:50:52]When we speak about labor, sir, at one point in time, when you talk about labor, the name that jumped to mind was Sir Roy Tropman.

[00:51:07]And sir, he has done an excellent job on behalf of the working class in Barbados.

[00:51:13]He's done an excellent job on behalf of fairness and fighting for the underprivileged.

[00:51:20]But sir, when we speak about Labour now, the name that jumps to mind is Tony Moore.

[00:51:29]>> I'm not the member for St. George North.

[00:51:31]No, >> Tony Moore.

[00:51:32]>> And precisely, sir, Tony Moore, sir. Who is the member for St. George North? And I know we we always refer to members by their um parliamentary designation, sir.

[00:51:46]But the fact is the name Tony is the name that people think of with labor sir. So it is not to be unexpected that these initiatives would then arise and be brought. But equally sir, there are a lot of things that need changing in Barbados. There a lot of things that people think of to do. There a lot of things that people in the house said I wish this person did this or I wish this was different. And we never get past the stage of wishing and hoping to actually put in pen to paper and pedal to the medal. And in this instance, that was done by the honorable member for St. George North. So I I want to start, sir, by congratulating her on bringing this private members resolution before the parliament.

[00:52:35]Now sir quite often we we we give things names and the average person does not actually understand what it means. So we talk about portability.

[00:52:49]I am sure if you go and ask the average person outside parliament who's passing by the gate what does portability of benefits mean? They would have not a clue.

[00:52:59]And it is necessary for us sir for this to work to have the widest possible educational program because unless a worker understands their entitlements not just their benefits but their entitlements then they're always at the women fancy and the mercy of somebody else. So I think that in the shortest possible time sir we have to have a national campaign of education on what portability of benefits are. Why is it necessary? What does it mean? What does it do for you the worker? What does it mean for you the employer? What does it mean for Barbados as a whole? How does it hinder you? How does it help you? We have to have that widest possible campaign sir.

[00:53:48]And it is not a campaign quite frankly. A lot of policies that we do affect segments.

[00:53:58]A lot of policies that we create affect particular interest groups.

[00:54:04]This sir affects everyone. This affects the worker at the entry level. This affects middle management. This affects the CEO.

[00:54:17]This affects the self-employed.

[00:54:20]This affects the casual worker. This affects those who have multiple jobs.

[00:54:26]At the end of the day, this resolution is about fairness.

[00:54:31]Is about doing what is fair. So sir, what are portable benefits?

[00:54:41]Portable benefits sir are benefits that a person acrews by working and that follow the person from job to job. The critical thing is they are not tied to the employer and they're not tied to the job. As a worker works and pays into a system that benefit that they pay in is effectively held on trust for them until such time as they need it. is almost like an insurance policy.

[00:55:15]As it stands now, sir, a lot of benefits that are cool to a worker are tied to their employment.

[00:55:23]We know of situations in Barbados where people are afraid to leave a job because they don't want to lose the benefit.

[00:55:36]You have a sick child and you get certain insurance coverage pursuant to your job and you frighten to leave the job because you don't want to lose the insurance coverage that that job provides to you.

[00:55:55]That is not right with most things sir benefits acrew based on time. If the time is calculated sir by the length of time in a particular job, it operates to the detriment of the employee.

[00:56:10]If the time is calculated by reference to how long the person has worked in whatever job, it occurs to the benefit of the person.

[00:56:21]Sir, we keep talking about bargaining power.

[00:56:25]The unions are big on bargaining power.

[00:56:27]The word bargaining occurs all the time.

[00:56:29]collective bargaining unit of bargaining.

[00:56:33]This actually enhances the ability of the worker to bargain for themsel.

[00:56:40]You are not tied or beholden to anyone where benefits are concerned. You are free to look around.

[00:56:50]If I happen to be in this job for two years or three years and I see something that looks even better for me, I am now free to pick up and leave and go and investigate my options with that better job. Knowing that the benefits I acrewed in my last job are not lost to me on leaving the company.

[00:57:14]I can now pick up and go and start to work for somebody who treats me better, somebody who's paying me more money, and I'm not even thinking, I got to worry about the probation period. What if I worked there for 6 months, I don't work out, I still take the benefits I got there and go to the next one. So, it gives the workers options.

[00:57:34]So, it life has ups and downs. Every every day is not the same. Every year is not the same. If you're in a business and I am working for you and we be we building furniture and there's a boom, right? I said if it slows down, if things get hard, people buying furniture, they might repair what they had.

[00:57:56]Through no fault of my own, I might be the best joiner in Barbados. Through no fault of my own, because the business is not generating the income, I'm out.

[00:58:07]It gives me now the flexibility to go and try for myself.

[00:58:11]and take the benefits I acrewed under my employer, pay in on my own behalf and still acrew benefits to myself.

[00:58:19]Somebody I think it was I can't remember who it was sir but somebody said that the benefit should move agreed entirely fairness what I work for what it pay into should come with me sir if ever there is an indicator of economic security or a way to increase the economic security of the average person in Barbados. It is through portable benefits.

[00:59:02]This legislation and this policy this resolution sir sets out a framework.

[00:59:07]It doesn't we have not dropped into the details is not yet formalized as to what this is going to look like look like.

[00:59:13]This requires we always say and this government is about a whole of Barbados approach. This is a whole of Barbados discussion.

[00:59:25]We we have an enviable social partnership, a tripartite partnership.

[00:59:30]If ever there was something that was suited for the social partnership for full ventilation, full discussion and full agreement, sir, this is it.

[00:59:41]Because this does not just touch and concern government. It's not that government. I would hope sir that we do not limit this to government.

[00:59:51]It must sir also involve the private sector. There must be a b for this to work. It should be as widespread as it possibly could be to give persons the best possible options. I also feel sir it should not be limited to barbers.

[01:00:10]My benefit should be portable wherever I come from.

[01:00:13]That may require discussion at a higher level. That may require discussions at the level of carry com. I think some have been had in relation to this already. I don't know whether they've crystallized.

[01:00:23]Right. But the reality sir is that if I work and I contribute to the social services in Trinidad, if I pay into the the equivalent of the NASS in Trinidad and I leave to come to work in Barbados, the fact is that money is held on trust for me, I pay taxes already. So the taxes are gone. But what I pay in to the social service is me insuring myself against what may happen. is me insuring myself against job loss, is me insuring myself against a disability, is me insuring myself against sickness, that money does not belong to the government.

[01:01:06]The benefit actually occurs to the individual. So if I leave and come to Barbados certain quite frankly those benefits should come with me. We're going to have to harmonize and work out an arrangement between countries for us to get this far. And sir, I might be taking this in a direction that the honorable member did not actually intend to be taken in this debate. But if we talking about it, let's talk about it as widely as we can.

[01:01:33]Let's talk about the possibilities of it. There's a framework here. This framework starts with the basic concept that we need an acceptance. I think that is what the honorable member is asking for. The resolution is asking for us to accept on behalf of the people of Barbados that this needs to happen.

[01:01:52]Once we get past that hurdle that it needs to happen in principle, then we start to get on to the details. What does it look like? How far does it go?

[01:02:02]What does it cover?

[01:02:05]Does it cover insurance plans? So the one of the biggest issues in Barbados sir is actually insurance. I spoke about it earlier.

[01:02:13]The insurance is tied to the company to the to the group. If I start to work with Dug Inc.

[01:02:28]Doug Construction Company Inc. and I happen to be on his insurance plan and it is a good plan and I have he has made the contribution on my behalf. I've made the contribution on my behalf and the contribution totals X. So x + y if I have to leave there's no good reason if I am still able to cover the x that my employer was paying that I should not continue on the plan. It's the same person.

[01:03:00]It is a simple matter. Can the premium be paid on my behalf? Whatever my premium my allocation my premium was. If I'm in a position to cover that I should be able to continue under the insurance policy. I should not lose my good benefits with William Duggy Construction Inc.

[01:03:17]because he didn't like me because he think I smiled at his wife.

[01:03:22]Did you wish I didn't sir? which I didn't but the point is once I am able to continue the set of circumstances that existed and for which I was obtaining a benefit either actual sir or perspective I should be allowed to keep that I should not have to leave William Doug Inc and his policy sir and go and work with Ty truckman company limited where the benefits are less I have to go a poor Raiki program >> that wouldn't be so >> which would not be so correct.

[01:04:01]>> I am just looking sir and calling names but the names tend to actually crystallize the fact that we talking about different about different things.

[01:04:10]So sir at the end of the day it's about the worker it's about the employer the employee it's about the person sir this is a game changer for us we have the opportunity to create the best most comprehensive ive most practical system while taking into account the particularities of the Barbinia experience.

[01:04:52]There are a lot of people sir who hustle. There a lot of people who work multiple jobs. I know a number of people sir who have the day their job then they go and work in a restaurant in the evening and on Saturday or somewhere they might pick something else up somewhere else.

[01:05:09]Imagine a Barbados where my NAS contribution is not just in relation to my principal job, but I can actually pay in and be covered or get coverage under every little job I pick up. Everywhere I'm working, I get the coverage if I'm willing to pay, willing to sign, willing to do my part. And it was said by the honorable member for s for St. Phillip West that the worker has to take some responsibility as well. The individual has to take some responsibility. All of the benefits that we provide for you sir. All of the options we provide for you. No matter what we try to secure for you, if you do not do your part, then it falls flat.

[01:06:04]If you don't make your payment, it falls flat.

[01:06:09]If you don't create the circumstance where you can actually port, it falls flat.

[01:06:18]I spoke to somebody recently, sir, who was working three jobs. I do not I cannot contemplate how somebody could work three jobs, sir.

[01:06:30]>> You're working three jobs.

[01:06:34]So they were getting the income in relation to three jobs.

[01:06:42]One was the main but then you supplemented they supplemented their monthly expenses with the other two jobs.

[01:06:50]When that person got sick, they got a benefit in relation to the main job.

[01:06:57]But understand they were hustling two others.

[01:07:03]So because they were not able to get a benefit from the other two, what they were getting under the main job did not help them. They were importers.

[01:07:13]They couldn't go and hustle because they were injured.

[01:07:18]We need to meet you at the level of your capacity.

[01:07:22]We need to meet you at the level of what it is that you're earning.

[01:07:27]We have the perfect opportunity, sir, to design the system that works best for as many people as possible. I have no doubt sir that the honorable member is going to the widest possible consultation but the widest possible consultation must also involve the realities of those we not even contemplating.

[01:07:51]We have to hear from people about their experiences. We have to hear from everybody so that the system once designed covers as many persons as possible.

[01:08:06]It's about fairness.

[01:08:14]I sir want to take this opportunity to urge in particular the self-employed persons to pay their contributions in to the NASS during co we faced the stark reality that a lot of people were not contributing to the social welfare scheme, the social scheme.

[01:08:49]We had a pandemic that affected everyone in Barbados and the government did not have a choice.

[01:08:57]This government took the responsible position of saying we have to meet people where they are. This is not the time to try to prove a point to anybody.

[01:09:09]We will cover as many people as we can.

[01:09:15]Sir, that's a one-off.

[01:09:18]We, sir, who formed the government, we know what that costs Barbados.

[01:09:24]The honorable member for St. George North knows what it costs Barbados to do that universal coverage in a difficult circumstance. And that was the government sir doing that when no money was coming in. So there's not even a case of we were in the land of the plenty and we're able to pay out the back pocket without it making a difference.

[01:09:47]The government had to dig deep, search hard and pull along to be able to meet his commitment to the people of Barbados.

[01:09:54]But we did it. But there's a lesson in that. The persons who dodged the bullet because the government stepped up to cover them owe it to themselves, sir.

[01:10:08]And owe it to the country and owe it to the other people whose contributions covered them when they did not make contributions to actually do the right thing.

[01:10:22]Sir, I have no sympathy or tolerance for self-employed professionals who do not do what is right.

[01:10:38]It is a there are a set of people in Barbados there are certain sectors that are corning money but you make a decision to hedge your bets. No, nobody plans. No, nobody sir sits down and thinks themselves, what if I break my foot tomorrow?

[01:10:55]Nobody sits down and thinks for themselves, what if I get sick?

[01:11:01]A lot of us in Barbados do not believe in the concept of insurance.

[01:11:10]The insurance is paying the security now for something that may or may not happen.

[01:11:20]A lot of persons sir in Barbados are on the it may not happen.

[01:11:26]Why am I paying that when it may not happen? We talked about CO just now sir, but when hurricane Elsa hit, most the houses that were damaged were uninsured and the government again had to step up once again and cover people.

[01:11:45]Hey, so I will I will use an anecdotal example, sir. It may paint me in a bad light, but I'll use aneotal example.

[01:11:56]I have no luck with cell phones, sir. I have no luck. If it's possible to fall in a pool or go in the sea or something, I say toilet, right? If it is possible, sir, to break your phone, I ain't going to break mine. I don't think I ever had a phone, sir, that lasted out that became obsolete because the fraction of time and whatnot made the programming um redundant. Sir, I've never had that lux with a phone.

[01:12:30]the pred the predecessor to this phone, I bought it when I was in Miami.

[01:12:37]And the person at Best Buy said to me for $42.99, you can insure your phone against anything.

[01:12:50]Anything. Whatever damage to your phone for 2 years for $42. Whatever damage, they will fix it or they replace it.

[01:13:01]With my history, with my known history, sir, I should have been the perfect person to go and pay that, but I did not.

[01:13:12]I left Best Buy and I went home. I went to where I was staying.

[01:13:17]Took the phone the box, sir. First thing I do is charge the phone. I plug the phone in and put it on top of a a dresser.

[01:13:25]And I lay down to have a sleep while the phone charge. I got up somewhere in there to go to the bathroom and my foot hooked into the cord. Phone fell face down on some tiles and shattered.

[01:13:40]3 hours sir was how long I had that phone for. 3 hours.

[01:13:46]3 hours.

[01:13:49]I went back to Best Buy to ask what they could do for me. They said nothing.

[01:13:55]I had no choice.

[01:13:58]I had to buy another phone.

[01:14:00]And you know what, sir? I still didn't take the package.

[01:14:06]That's a phone. I can laugh at that, sir. Because that's a phone. That's not my house.

[01:14:14]It's not my life.

[01:14:16]It is not my health.

[01:14:18]It's not the health of my child. It's not my car.

[01:14:23]Insurance and social security systems exist for a reason.

[01:14:29]You hope never to have to use them, but in the event that you do, it makes the loss a little bit more bearable.

[01:14:37]It makes the downtime weatherable.

[01:14:41]It makes the bills that still come when you're incapacitated manageable.

[01:14:47]This is another step in that we are saying because these things exist.

[01:14:53]It should not be tied and you should not be trapped in employment that does not suit you because you are afraid to lose what you are entitled to.

[01:15:06]I want to thank start to end as I started and thank the honorable member for having the courage to put this into the national discussion.

[01:15:18]I want to encourage all who work, all who work to make the contributions and do their part.

[01:15:32]We have the experience of COVID.

[01:15:36]We have the experience of Elsa.

[01:15:40]Let us not have the experience of something a lot more personal and a lot more closer to home where we are unprotected when we could have actually been protected. I urge people to investigate, ask questions. I am sure sir that the union has a hotline.

[01:15:59]I'm asking an open-ended question sir that or somebody that you could call and ask a question to about portability and these things. Ask a question.

[01:16:10]Know that this applies to you. Every single person in Barbados who is working, this applies to you. The law has not yet been written.

[01:16:25]The law has not yet been framed.

[01:16:29]There is the chance to include encompass and take account of as many situations and circumstances as we possibly can. Be a part of the discussion.

[01:16:43]Share your ideas as what you expect it to look like, what you hope it looks like, what you hope it covers.

[01:16:56]But at the end of the day, know your rights as they exist now and imagine your rights as they could exist if this framework actually comes to fruition. So sir, I thank the honorable member for St. George North for bringing it and I hope that my voice has reached the persons who still refuse to insure, who still refuse to accept the social responsibility to join the NS scheme and especially those persons who know that in the last couple times of crisis the government bailed you out although you did not contribute and understand that it's unlikely we can never ever do that again at that level at that scale. A word to the wise is sufficient. Thank you, sir.

[01:18:01]>> Sorry to move that further consideration.

[01:18:08]The question is that further consideration of this resolution be suspended. All those are members in favor please say I. I.

[01:18:15]>> Those against please say no. Me have it.

[01:18:19]Further consideration of this resolution is hereby suspended.

[01:18:47]So I beg to move that this honorable chamber be suspended until 11:55.

[01:18:56]Second.

[01:18:57]>> The question is that this arbit chamber will be suspended until 11:55 a.m. All those ar members in favor, please say I.

[01:19:03]>> I.

[01:19:04]>> Those against, please say no. Meeting.

[01:19:06]Yes. This chamber stands suspended until 11:55 a.m.