This debate examines whether Hathor (originally called Heteru) was originally a Canaanite deity or an Egyptian goddess. Jabari argues that Hathor is Egyptian, citing evidence from the Palette of Narmer (3100-3200 BCE) showing Hathor imagery, the Gerza Palette from Nubia dating to 9000 BCE, and the fact that Byblos was under Egyptian control during the Old Kingdom. Nefali argues that Hathor was originally a Canaanite goddess called Balot Gabal, citing Britannica's description of Balot Gabal being equated with Hathor by the 12th dynasty and the temple of Balot Gabal in Byblos. The debate highlights the importance of source interpretation, with Jabari criticizing Nefali for misreading scholarly sources and using Roman-period images to make claims about ancient Egyptian deities.
Jabari Vs. Naphtali: Is Hathor Originally A Canaanite GOD?Ajouté :
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>> I'm not playing. Oh my god. Setta, stop playing with me now. Paul, you better tell them. You better tell them now.
Paul, stop playing with me.
Well, first let me say um peace to the whole family to the Sonetta TV Studios family. Peace to you, my brother Sonetta. Peace to Queen Nali. Um let me start by saying that I thought the conversation that um we had I had on your platform last week was last Friday was an interesting one. um and it ended up veering into the direction of um talking about the origin of Hatheror.
The original name of Hathor is Heheru.
And so that was after listening to that conversation and knowing we did not have time to fully address the issues, I decided that um I wanted to try to address the issues a little bit further.
Um and so I called you and I said, you know, you said that we should have a conversation. Let's try to schedule one.
>> Let me Didn't I put you on the phone with Nefali?
>> No. I Yes.
>> Yeah. AND YOU SAID YES. WE'RE GONNA FURTHER IT. THERE YOU GO.
>> YES, WE WERE ON the phone. Yes, we were.
>> So, y'all knew what y'all was going to talk about.
>> We were on the phone. That's right. We were.
>> Yeah. That's why we had a we sent you the thumbnail and the title and everything and we thought that that was what we was going to talk about. When I had talked to them, that's what I was under the impression. But >> but when when you guys we sent it we sent the thumbnail to sign hours ago and then he >> a week ago >> when you but when he sent the thumbnail to me I automatically looked at it showed Jabari and say yo look it changed >> and you should have said you should have called me and we could have talked about it hours before I don't know you changed it without me knowing and then now people calling me and telling me hey why >> Neali I never changed is the title. What are you TALKING ABOUT? THE TITLE IS you said that was a Canaanite god. I'M QUITE SURE EVERYBODY IN HERE WILL SAY THAT WAS the title.
>> And then I put you on the phone with Jabari and he said he went further like the keep on going because we didn't have time. Remember and you say yes, let's do it.
>> So that's why we saying that THE CONVERS THE TITLE CHANGED. We were supposed to I think we supposed to elevate the conversation because we only talked for like a short period of time. We didn't really talk. So it was like you know we really didn't but I was >> So are you changing your position now that she is not the Canaanite god? And if so that's all right.
>> No I'm not changing my position.
>> So there it is. Let's get it.
>> Is that your that is your position correct?
>> Yes. So go ahead and share your screen.
>> Okay. Okay. So that is your >> You don't want to go first?
>> No. Javari says, >> right? No to critique my information, so he needs to go ahead and showcase what he his information.
>> I I I want to be clear that I know we're going to go back and forth on this like we did last time. I have no problem whatsoever showing my information first, >> right?
>> Problem doing that. Um and and let me say this, we're starting on a on a sort of an off note. The reason why I wanted to talk to you, Nefali, is not because I wanted to debate you, not because I wanted to berate you. I recognize that I have been on Senator's channel now going on six years. And sometimes when I have conversations with folks from the the Hebrew Israelite community, I feel like all of their references come from the Bible, right? Like that's the only book that they're referencing. While I disagree with your position, I was I thought it was refreshing that you were looking at sources.
I don't agree with how you read the sources, but I THOUGHT THAT WAS GOOD. THAT'S THAT MEANS THAT WE COULD HAVE A DISCUSSION.
And so that is the reason why I suggested that. And that's what we said on the phone. I said, "Listen, I'm not here to insult you, to berate you, anything. I think that we can have a conversation. Honestly, let me say to you that as as a professor of ancient African history, I've been teaching ancient African history for a long time. I now teach on the college level. I thought that sometimes when you were go not on the college level at a college, I always taught on a college level. Um, but now that um when when I heard you describing some of your sources and you heard me say this, I thought that you were not reading the sources and understanding the sources. That is a common challenge if you have not read the sources for an extended period of time. I wanted to have a conversation with you about it.
Not not a situation where we're going to end up cursing each other, yelling each other. We shouldn't have to do that, right? I And if I >> if I can respond to what you're saying, >> say again.
>> Okay.
>> I think so.
>> Okay. Because I was hearing some feedback. Okay. I definitely agree. Um so, um my position is definitely the Bible. I take that as my primary source.
My foundation is definitely the Bible.
But yes, I like to bring uh correlate history and bring it and connect it with uh the Bible. Bring the Bible to life is what I like to do. and look at history and as well as sources, but I do presentations as well. So, you know, I'm trying I'm a little bit more decorated.
I get what you're saying and I agree. I would love to have this conversation with you. Um, broad I wanted to broaden it, you know, bring out uh more sources to uh showcase how uh the Egyp how the Canaanites um actually influenced the Egypt the kinetics. I got to learn to say kit. I'm so used to saying Egyptians. But um I wasn't I wish we guys we we could have postponed this a little bit. You know, I needed a little more time because I could have brought forth a little bit more and this would have made the conversation a little bit more in depth for the audience. But we would we going to do what we >> can always do a part two. So >> that's what I'm saying. You know, we can do what we going to do today and um I look forward to seeing what you have Jabari. So >> all right. So you got to bring forth your information so he can make the argument.
>> No, he already did. So he show some stuff. It's okay. I'll show some stuff.
>> All right.
>> He he has a presentation.
>> She showed some slides. I I'm prepared to to do that. That's not a problem. Um and and let me say that um in this instance, sometimes when I'm on here, when I'm on Sonetta's channel, I'm in an interesting situation. People who are expecting me to describe and to advocate for the for comedic spirituality say Jabari how come you're not teaching this and this about the comedic spiritual system and then people who are into history say Jabari is just a priest. The reality is that I am a priest and a historian but most times when I'm on this channel I am in the role of historian.
That's what I do primarily. So, one of the things that um that you're going to hear me do is I'm going to talk about sources. I'm going to talk about dates.
Um and so that's that's really what I'm going to do. I'm not trying to support or protect any comedic text.
All I'm trying to do is describe the historical record. That's it. That's it.
I don't think there's a need for me to try to say, well, the comedic record is correct. I'm just saying this is the the history. And so that's that's that's really where um I'd like to go tonight.
>> I just want to a little bit before we can I I promise you you can I won't say any another word after this. Um I just feel like Sineta is trying to force me to do something that I don't have. You know, I told you to give me a second because I've been busy. My daughter had a track meet. You know what I'm saying?
Here's all her. She won all these medals. I told him that I was busy, but he wanted he wanted me to, you know, come on and and u look at what Jabari has to offer. So now that I'm doing that, he keeps saying to me, produce information. I'm supposed to sit back and listen.
>> No, I'm saying you had the information.
Remember when you was going in, you was showing me YOU HAD SO MUCH. I HAD TO SAY, "HOLD UP. HOLD UP. I GOT SOMEBODY ELSE."
>> OKAY.
So he let me say >> without any further ado, Jabari, let's go. So, you know, let's let's get it.
>> And and let me say, listen, I I really do get being busy. I mean, I'm extreme.
My Monday through Wednesday is ridiculous. I can't even tell you. I am working on three hours sleep, right? I had a major paper.
>> I do know we live, right? Let's go, man.
>> Sure. Sure. I just want to I just want to to show some compassion for my sister because I get >> I appreciate I appreciate that. I got three kids. You know what I'm saying?
So, I'm trying, right? But and I don't have >> my business is a little different. I can only imagine what that's like. So anyway, let's try we'll we'll try I'll show some information. We'll talk about it. It doesn't have to be that lengthy.
By the way, I have to prepare for my class at Hunter tomorrow.
>> Well, I'm giving you seven minutes. I'm giving you seven minutes and I'm going to give Nefali seven minutes as well.
>> Are you good with that, Nefali? Or >> are you able to produce all your information in seven minutes?
>> No, >> no, no. We're gonna go back and forth. I just wanted to produce his information.
Go right ahead.
>> Back and forth. We'll go back and forth.
Yeah.
>> All right. Let's go. Jabari. Seven minutes. Stop. When you start.
>> So, let me do this. I'm going to just show you um some of Here's my my uh slide. Here you go.
Um here. This this the the discussion is about whether Heteru I'm going to use the word Heru was originally a Canaanite deity. And I want you to understand why I'm using the word heteru. Aor is a Greek rendition of heteru.
Right? Many of the names that you will hear for ancient kemet in fact even ke itself Egypt is an Egyptian variation on a kmetic word. Um what I really want you to do is I want you to understand how the language is important.
And so that is um why you're seeing me use Heteru with Hatheror in parenthesis.
And in the first slide you're seeing images of Heteru on the left, Heteru on the right. One of them is in her um her boine form. You can see that she has cow ears on the right. And in the middle we're seeing that deity that um that that Queen Nali um referred to, Balot Gabal. Balot Gabal. So let's continue.
First of all, let me um say that what I want to do is I want to investigate the claims that I heard on on Friday because I think that if we look at what I heard and what we heard, what we'll be able to do is we'll be able to say is that actually what follows the historical record. So there were some claims made. There are more than three claims but let's start with these. Okay, the first one is Heru or Hatheror is originally a Canaanite deity. That's the first claim. The second one is Herru is the same as Belot Gibbal.
And the third one is Biblo is older than Ke. We're going to I'm going to just deal with those first, but there were other claims that I heard as well. Um and I know that um Sister Nefali is saying that she would like to um expand the conversation. I'm willing to do that as well.
So, um, what I want to do, I maybe I won't do it here. Maybe I won't do it here for the sake of time, but what I was going to do is play a bit of the video so you can hear the comment that has been made. I'm I'm going to save the video. Let's save the video. um in case we need to just say well here is the claim and this is why I frame the argument this way because trust me I'm not trying I would not try to misrepresent what Nefali said that would not be I mean that would that would just be unfair so um based on what she said I want to acknowledge what um has been said so here is you saw that um Nefali used Britannica and you'll see this is the page in Britannica that refers to Belot. First of all, the name is usually Belot Gibbal. So, I'm not sure why Britannica sought to just use part of the name, but I want you to notice that this is what she was showing on the screen. And right off the bat, I want you to see that it says that Balot Gabal, I'm going to read what it says. You can see it highlighted here. She was often represented with a typically Egyptian hairstyle.
If you are represented with a typically Egyptian hairstyle, I'll say comedic hairstyle, that means that part of your your imagery comes from someplace else at the very least. It doesn't say that her hair that her hairstyle goes back from Canaan or wherever else Biblo to Kemet. It says that it goes in the other direction. It's an Egyptian hair hairstyle, headdress and c and costume.
And they even say by the 12th dynasty somewhere around um uh 1991 to 17 um 86 BCE, she is equated with the Egyptian goddess Hathor. So I want you to recognize that they're saying that she is connected to Heru by the 12th dynasty. Right off the bat, without knowing much about Kemet, you should recognize that that means that Kemet has already had 12 dynasties before it. Some of you are saying, "Wait a minute, isn't 11 dynasties, Jabari?" No, I want you to understand that historians put the the the rulers of that first dynasty and what they call dynasty zero.
So, there were 12 dynasties before the 12th dynasty.
That's bizarre, but that's what historians do. I'm not saying I agree with it. I just want you to understand what we're talking about here. In addition to that, this is the image that Nefali showed for Belot.
You recognize it on her screen, correct?
This is the image that showed. And in fact, when I looked at her slide, I thought it was interesting that when it went to Britannica, I did not see this statue. So, I was honestly a little confused. But then I realized Nefali added it to her slide.
This is diff this is challenging because I want you to understand that this statue has a date. Sometimes you hear people say that what they do what you've heard me say that what people do is they smash hundreds if not thousands of years together. If this is Bot when is this statue from?
Well, I want you to know that this statue I don't know if if Nefali knows this. Of course, I know it because I saw it with my own eyes when I traveled to the British Museum. This statue is from the British Museum.
From the British Museum. And it comes from what period? The Roman period.
She added this image to her slide. It wasn't in Britannica, but I want you to understand this is from the Roman period. Right off the bat, you should say something sounds fishy.
If we're all the way at THE ROMAN PERIOD, THAT'S AFTER KEMET FALLS.
BUT WE'RE showing an image from a deity after 3,000 YEARS OF COMEDIC SPIRITUALITY. And >> 1 minute 30 seconds.
>> How much?
>> 1 minute 30 seconds.
>> I wish you had told me a little earlier.
That's okay. Um, so I want you to understand that that is what we're doing. And look at the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire is from somewhere around 27 BC to 393 AD. That's how they've described it. But clearly this statue could be as early as about 200 B.CE.
We are smashing hundreds, no not hundreds, thousands of years into one.
In addition to that, you also see that Nefali showed this when she um described what she was looking at. And I don't think that she was reading it properly.
This is an article, the lady, the lady of the titles, the lady of biblo and search for her true name. And she had the second page on the screen. And I want you to just look at it. I'm not going to show you all of it. I don't have time to do it. But look at what it says. There's not even the full sentence. particularly close in the third or second millennium a permanent Egyptian presence is attested in biblo from the middle of the third millennium.
So I want you to understand that what this article is saying is that the kmetic people had a presence in biblo not that the people of biblo are the ones that have present in in ke.
What are they trying to tell you? Biblo is under the opaces of >> when we come back I'll continue to show you more about Biblo. We talked a bit about um Bilot Gabal. We'll talk about Bis B um uh Biblo when I come back.
>> All right. Thank you. Now after Nefali go we can make it 10 minutes in case y'all want more time. It's up to Nefali.
So Nefali is on you. Shout out to my brother the one of the scholars in the building Kamishian Adep. Shout out to my man Kamishian. All right, Napali, it's on you, sister. And um time will start when you ready.
>> Sorry, I was muted. Let me get ready to share my screen.
All right, here we go.
Okay. Oh, screen.
All right. Can you see my screen? Okay, there we go. It's sharing.
All right.
So, uh the first thing Jabari speaks on.
>> You ready? You ready?
>> Yeah. Let's go.
>> Time starts. Seven minutes.
>> All right. So, the first thing that um Jabari speaks on is the fact that I used the Roman um image of her. I irregardless.
>> You're not sharing your screen now.
>> Huh? You're not sharing your screen.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, I thought it was sharing.
>> No, it went back off.
>> Okay. I don't know what happened. Let me see what happened. Uh, let me do it again.
Sorry, guys. Technology.
All right. I'm >> going now.
>> Thank you, S. Appreciate it.
>> You know what? I was trying to hide this. I guess I accidentally put um stop. Okay. All right. So Jabari made an interesting point. He said that I utilized a Roman image of Belot. I don't know what the big deal is about that.
That's the that's Balot. That's who she is from the Romans, but uh you know neither here or there. So it says right here that she's typically um often typically represented with an Egyptian hairstyle and headdress and a costume, but we see her right here.
She's not dressed as an Egyptian. Uh, but you know, the word typical means that, you know, it can it can change often. Doesn't necessarily mean that that's how she's depicted all the time.
So, we need to make sure we add that.
Um, he also said that um it says here from the 12th dynasty. So, I want to correct that. And then also he put up my source. So, here it is right here. It says the lady of title, the lady of biblo and the search for her true name. So they say here particularly close to the third and second millennia is we do have uh Egyptians uh influence within um biblo which is true. Uh let's give some history on that. So um are you all able to read this good? Because it's kind of far. Let me uh let me pull this in.
Let me go here.
There we go.
All right. This is bigger. So I'm using the Britannica today. And it says uh Biblo Modern Jabel also spelled Jabal uh biblical Gibble ancient seapport the site of which is located on the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. So it gives a little history on Biblo. But when you go down, it says modern archaeologists, archaeological excavations have revealed that Biblo was occupied at least by the Neolithic period 8,000 to 4,000 BC. So it says at during the fourth millennium BC, an extensive settlement developed there because Biblo was the chief harbor for the export of cedar and other valuable wood to Egypt. So, it's letting you know that they were very valuable to the Egyptians because they were the chief harbor of this wood that Egypt needed to build their boats, build um all types of things with. Correct. So, it says here, so that's what the that's what the relationship was. So, we know that the no one's saying that the Egyptians weren't there. Of course, they were there. They were trading. So it says here, the Egyptian monuments and inscriptions found on the site attest to close relations with the Nile River Valley throughout the second half of the second millennium. It says during Egypt's 12th dynasty, Biblo again became an Egyptian dependency. So it says here that the Egyptians depended on Biblo.
And it says here, and the chief goddess of the city, Balot, the mistress with her well-known temple at Biblo. So, she already had a temple and they're letting you know right there that um she was worshiped in Egypt and after the collapse of the Egyptian new kingdom in the 11th century, Biblo became the foremost city of Phoenicia. So, they're letting you know that Biblo that the Egyptians worship Balot. It doesn't say Hather there. It says that she worshiped that they actually worshiped Belot. and they're letting you know that with their relationship um with the Egyptians that that's where that is. Now, I also have this right here. So, this is Sir Alan Gardinir. Um he is a British Egyptologist.
Now, uh what he did was was that it says here scholars still argue over what the inscription actually says. So we have the protosatic inscription found at Sarah beat Elcadim and it says here that sir Alan Gardinire thinks it mentions the Canaanite goddess Balat. So it says the Brit British Egyptologist and linguist for one translated the word I belot to mean to belot. If he is right it would confirm the presence of Seemetic people probably continue their work as minors as they have done in the challithic period through early bronze age. It says until the middle uh bronze age corresponding with the early part of Egyptians 12th dynasty. This description leads many scholars to argue that Hathor was not originally an Egyptian deity but a seemetic goddess who was Egyptianized.
Hatheror as balot. Now I also want to showcase here that around 3000 uh BC biblo port was the most important timber shipping center in the eastern Mediterranean. It was used by the Phoenicians to ship their local wine, cedars, 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 le 11 >> three minutes >> and other wood to pharaohs of e ancient Egypt to be used in tomb construction and ship building. So this right here lets you know the importance of how uh Biblo port was. And it also tells you here that Biblo was uh to the ancient Egypt was called Kudna and was a prime Lebanese trading port of cedar wood agricultural products. And um so that's letting you know that their connection.
Um, now he mentioned, let me see.
So, let me I kind of got things cuz I wanted to I got things in my order, but he he says some things, so I want to get it.
>> You could pause if you want. Pause and get it straight. You want to pause the time?
>> You had two minutes and four seconds. I paused the time.
>> Thank you. cuz I wanted to cuz the com the title kind of got changed too. All right, you can start the time.
You ready?
Sign her.
>> Yes. Yes, I'm ready.
>> All right. So, here we got the pantheon of the Canaanite religion. So, the the uh biblo were Canaanites. They were Phoenician Canaanites. And it lets you know here that Balot was the chief deity of Biblo and was identified with a start in Aphrodite. Now, why am I bringing this up? Because she was the chief goddess of Biblo. Why would the god the uh why would um why would these uh Biblo uh the Phoenetians have to wait until the 12th dynasty to make her their chief de uh deity, right? That makes absolutely no sense when she is the chief. She's been around for a very long time. Right here it says that her temple was built at 3,000 BC which makes her her temple at about 5,000 BC. So, um, that puts her way older than what, uh, Jabari is trying to say, that she had to wait for Egyptian influence when they were already worshiping her and they've been around since 8,000 years. So, why would they have to wait so long to worship uh, Hatheror or what, you know, worship Hathor? That makes absolutely no sense. So, we have to think about it like that. They say the most important temple in Biblo is the temple of Balak Gibble of the lady of Biblo. The goddess Balag Geu was one of the sundisk with the sundisk on the head was represented on the s uh cylind cylindric sorry cylindrical seals found in biblo and in Egypt. Fragments of alabaster jars with hier hieroglyphic inscriptions from pharaohs of Egypt were found in the evac in in the excavations of the temple. So it says also objects related to this period were found in the temple and its vicinity buried in sealed jars sometimes. So he's letting you know right there that um Balai Gibble's um temple was actually one of the was the most important temple of all and it was developed in 3000 BC. So we all have to know that with this understanding we have to understand that hey if if her temple was built I mean if her temple dates back to 3000 BC which is 5,000 years and she is the most important deity then it only makes sense that uh that she's been around for a very very long time. She didn't have to wait till the 12th dynasty with the Egyptians to start worshiping her and build a temple that's dated back to 5.
>> All right. Thank you. Time um let me make an announcement uh real quick. If you over there on the French Negro channel while he's um lying and doing all kind of crazy stuff, don't bring your butt over here in my chat room cuz I see you and my people see you so they let me know what's going on. So, brother Jabari, cuz um you will be blocked over here. Just go back over there with the slander. You don't want knowledge. You don't want information. You see over here, we deal with the knowledge and information. So, go back over there and play play with information to the um false news. Anyway, Jabari, we're going to amp up the time. Nefali, if it's all right with you, I would say 10 minutes.
Is that all right with you, Nefali?
>> You said 10 minutes.
>> Yes. Go ahead.
>> All right. 10 minutes in this round.
Brother Jabari, you got the floor, brother. Time will start when you start.
>> Okay. Let me um start by responding to some of what I heard Nefali say.
>> You ready?
>> Yeah. Let me just I'm going to start responding then I'll show a few slides.
Let me say that I really wish that I could get Nefali into my class. And I don't mean that disrespectfully.
Um, I I think that she has she's this is an intelligent sister, but I think that she needs to do a if she did a history class, she'd be even more powerful.
She would be become more conversant with some of the things that she's talking about. You'll routinely hear her say, for example, that the temp that the temple for um Belot was built at 3000 B.CE, which puts her at 5,000 B.CE. What she's trying to say is if the temple was built in 3000 BCE then it's 5,000 years old. That's what she's trying to say. Um and and and I think that that is something that becomes confusing perhaps for her and for the audience. She's also mentioned Guardian. His name is just Gardner. Sir Alan Gardner. I wish that I could get you into a class. You would be a prize student. And I mean that truly I do. Many of the students in my class aren't reading like you are. But I I would want I want you to have a context for what you're reading. She also said e Egypt becomes um a an a biblo dependency. So that means that they were dependent on that Egypt was dependent on biblo. That's not what that means.
What they're saying is that Biblo was under the control. Let me just share this the screen for a second. This is what she's reading from.
She's reading, let me make it larger.
I'm going to show it on my screen as well on my slides as well. But this is what she's reading from Britannica, right? And it says here um it talks about them being a a heart a port for cedar and all these other things. And it says here Biblo again became an Egyptian dependency and the chief goddess of the city bilot with her well-known temple was worshiped in Egypt. What she's trying to what it is saying is Biblo was under the control of Kemet. That is what they're trying to say. Let me let me give you a um an article um from the respect journal from Edinberg's University, right? Biblo and its relationship to to Egypt. I want you to understand that what we're talking about trying to do this quickly so I don't run out of time. What we're talking about um look at this here. They're saying this is the new kingdom. So this is actually later than what we're talk what she was just referring to. But even here, listen to what it says. While Egyptian territorial influence increased over the new kingdom, Biblo remained independent and traded with e Egypt in an in unequal partnership.
There is never a time that the people of B um Biblo are in control of Kemet. It goes the other way around.
It goes the other way around.
And I want you to understand that um if you even look at some of the descriptions there's there's a piece in the Armana letters maybe I'll read it later from the prince Ali Milku he actually says to the the king of Kemet I am the sand beneath your sandals you when you breathe I breathe we're talking about um influence in the other direction and I think that when she's reading some of what she's reading, she's not necessarily understanding that that is what is being said. That that's there there's nothing wrong with that. It just means that you you have to um to read a little bit more so you get the proper context. That's all I I and I really I really hope that you do that so that you can have a even stronger argument. Look at this here. I was talking about whether bis she mentioned that biblo is older than ke and she said last time and this time that biblo um we see people occupying biblo at around 8000 BCE that is very early that is very early so I want you to understand that when you look at this period biblo is an ancient city that's true it's one of the oldest cities in the world and I think that if you read this, what could happen when you compare it, for example, to what they've placed about Egypt, you could get confused. So, they start talking about people occupying it in 8,000 B.CE. But then when you go to Kemet, it doesn't talk to you about when people occupy Kemet. It simply then says, well, we're going to talk to you about the 3,000 years that they um that they uh uh had these native these powerful native dynasties. So you can get the impression that Kemet was not um inhabited before it became the the world's largest and most powerful nation. That is what you COULD YOU COULD GET CONFUSED IF YOU DON'T know that. And I think that a lot of folks due to the fact that often what we're doing and you've heard me say this about Sumer, we describe protobiblo with dynastic chem.
That's what people do. Same thing they do with Sumer. They've described protosumer when people were there doing very little subsisting and then they compare that date to when Kemet actually is a powerful nation building the world's first super structures one of the first literate nations in the world.
You have to compare apples to apples.
Take a look at this article. Cultural convergence in the Neolithic Nile Valley. This is a scholarly article, right? and it connects um Kemet to the rest of Africa. Really good article. You all should read it. Take a look. I'm going to just show you what it says on the second page and the third page. The aim at of the present article is to define an important historian of cultural change belonging to the fifth millennium. Blah blah blah blah blah blah. By the way, I want you to say I'm trying to do this quickly. They connected to um Nubia and central Sudan.
>> Four minutes. Four minutes.
>> Thank you. The culture of Kemet comes from the south, not from outside. That's what they're telling you. And they also let you know that a major part of their culture comes from what they call um cattle culture. Cattle culture. This is important. One of the ways that um Heerru is is um depicted is actually as a cow. That's because Heteru likely comes from the south. She might even be older than Kemet from Nubia, not from someplace else.
Look at what they say here. It says, um, "Our point about departure in the comparative observation is that there is nothing distinctly African about the adoption of mobile cattle pastoralization as a response to climate change or about privileging cattle as ritual and symbolic media. similar patterns of response have now been um documented in a much broader zone of the middle holysine old world. I wish I could have time to explain that. I don't. When you look over here, you'll also see now this is when they start talking to you about some of the um of the uh uh um people in the area. Look at this. A mealithic lifestyle centered upon fishing, hunting, and foraging had held sway across much of the Sahara beginning since the beginning of the holosene. What time did they give you?
10,000 BCE.
So saying that Biblo uh we see people in Biblo at 8,000 B.CE. doesn't say anything. Kemet is older.
You just can't compare Kemet as an empire. By the way, if I had shown you this picture, you would know that this whole conversation is a wrap. Who in the chat knows what this is? Does anyone know what this is?
>> Two minutes. This is this amazing site in southern Kemet. You could even call it Nubia. It's that far south that is known as Nabta.
It not only shows you that people are actually living in the region, but it shows you that they have a high culture.
They are um charting the stars. That's what you're seeing here. They're not just fishing. They're not just doing subsistence. They are This is a stone calendar that is thousands of years older than the one at um at uh Stonehenge. And you don't hear anything about it. Oh, I wish this was in the front. Oh boy, this slide didn't come up properly. Uh, let me do this really quickly because I want you to get a sense. I don't want you to think that I'm giving you something that um that is not cor uh contained within the existing scholarship. Take a look at this uh really quickly. Here we go. This is a description of the Navda Pia stone circle. I just erased the picture. And they're saying that it began in the early holysine around 9,000 B.CE.
This is important. Kemet is older and it has a high-tech civilization earlier.
One more thing I should show you with regard to um Belot. Remember we're talking the question is whether Bot is um originally a Canaanite deity. But as I said to you last week, you see that that ha who um uh Nefali is calling Hatheror is at the top of the pallet of Nmer. This is when Kemet becomes an empire, becomes a powerful nation. This is the world's first historical document. This is 31 or 3200 B.CE. We see her here. And this is I just want to show you this. You could look at this later. This is just to give you a date.
Finally, let me show you this very quickly. Um, I want you to also recognize she's mentioning a temple to Balot.
>> But I go ahead close out with that.
>> Here's the picture of the temple to Balot. Notice all the Tekken or the obelisk. The influence goes the other way. Kemet is influencing Biblo.
Powerful. Nef Ali, let's go.
Nef Ali, I hope you was watching. Nef Ali, >> I'm here. And yes, I was watching. Yes, I was. Let's go ahead and share my screen. And I just wanted to say this.
Um, I don't have a problem with understanding. I think Jabari needs to subscribe to my channel. I'm pretty good. Um, I'm very studied on history and you don't no worries over here. You know, if I said his name was Gardener, excuse me. I misspoke gardener, but guess what? He was a British Egyptologist who who interpreted that uh script uh that inscription and it came back to the lot. It did not it that's whose name it was. Okay, so that is actually correct. But let me go ahead and share my screen and let Oops, I pushed the wrong button.
Let me go ahead and share my screen. So, let's talk about some things right quick that Jabari brought out.
All right.
Okay, let me go back to my Yep. All right, so I'm utilizing the world history encyclopedia and this is talking about Biblo. So it says, >> huh, >> time starting.
>> Thank you. Thank you so much, San. It says the city began as a small fishing village called Goo or Gibble, right? It says, "While the coastal region of the land which the Greeks named Phoenicia was known to inhabitants as Canaan by 3000 B.CE, E the little village had grown to prosperous city through trade.
The cities of Lebanon hold on the cedars of Lebanon were highly praised by their by other countries for use in construction and biblo became the single most important shipping port for timber to the to Egypt. So when I say their dependency, they are the single most important shipping port for their timber timber to Egypt and elsewhere. It says Bibles was the first city to perfect ship building. Okay. And it's largely due to the craftsmanship of the ship rights of Biblo that Phoenicians acquired their fame as sailors and princes of the sea as they were referred to in the book of Ezekiel. It was primarily thought I mean through trade with Egypt that biblo grew so incredibly wealthy. Jabari wants you to think that they were enslaving them and putting them under pressure BUT THEY ACTUALLY WERE GIVING THEM MONEY. They were actually making them wealthy. It says the Egyptians flooded biblos with material wealth but also with with aspects of their culture and Egyptian religion. Now, I know Jabar is going to say, "Well, right there it's telling you that the Egyptians flooded them with their religion." And that is true.
However, it says that Biblo is cited as the city where Isis located the body of her dead husband. So, right there, it's letting you know that the Egyptians also provided their religion. But let me show you this right here.
Uh it says the role of the temple of Balot Gibble as an intermediary between Egypt and Biblo during the old kingdom.
So right here this article is letting you know that the temple of Balot actually was a uh intermediary between Egypt and Biblo during the Old Kingdom.
But I know what you guys are thinking because you guys are very smart. You guys are like Nef that's still telling us that the Egyptians were worshiped.
But hold on. Let me showcase you something right here. Right here we see an Egyptian stale showing worshippers of Canaanite deities. What are you talking about? Yes, that person right there in that middle is another Canaanite identity. It says the wonderful state of preservation of the stale allows us to appreciate the bold color which is painted. It is p uh it is a private Egyptian stale showing veneration of a divine I'm so sorry my dog just started barking.
Excuse me. Big dog.
>> My Yeah, I got a I got a pet.
>> You heard that voice?
>> He didn't saw a cat.
>> I paused your time. You at 7:14. You can take care the dog if you want.
>> Okay. You pause. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.
>> I pause your time. You're at 7:14.
>> Thank you. Uh, you get the dog.
That's okay. Thank you. All right. So it says the wonderful you go ahead and start my time sa >> Did you hear me? Uh signetta.
>> Yes. Yes. I got you. I'm waiting till you start.
>> Okay. Hold on. Hold on one second.
>> You got 7:14.
>> He's acting up too. All right. Go ahead and go ahead and start. He's gone now.
>> Go ahead.
>> Okay. So it says the wonderful state of preservation of this stale allows us to appreciate the bold colors which is which was painted. It it is a private Egyptian stale showing veneration of the divine triad. Surprising two out of the three are Canaanite and not Egyptian gods. The stale is divided into two sections. In the lower section described Ramos and his wife are seen kneeling in a gesture of veneration towards the three deities depicted in the upper section. The central deity is a Canaanite goddess uh Cadesh standing naked on the back of a lion. Her figure carries a connotation of eroticism and fertility. On the right is a Canaanite warrior god Rashef who is associated also with healing and fertility. On the left is the Egyptian god men among ra.
So it says whose role as god of fertility and male potency is clearly reflected in his iconog icon um iconography.
Now it says the inscriptions on the side identify all fe all all five figures.
Egyptians worship of Canaanite gods. So right here we see actual Egyptians worshiping Canaanite gods. So what does this mean? They both were influential to each other. Okay. So the fact that they were worshiping, you know, the fact that um and I have another something else. I hope I got time. So right here it says JW curator Erin Ahri. Welcome to ancient history encyclopedia. So they're telling you thank you. This is where this come from and it was actually a uh exhibit.
It was called Pharaoh and Canaan the untold story. So right here it says 3,500 years ago mutual cultural influence and political fluctuations marked the relationships between ancient Egypt and Canaan. Around 1700 B.CE the Hixos. Now we got to talk about the Hixos. The Hixos actually came into Egypt and ruled. So that was actually Canaanites that came in and ruled and it says a foreign dynasty of Canaanite origin conquered northwest Egypt. So you see the Canaanites actually came back and they conquered uh the Egyptians. It says following their exposion some 150 100 years later Egypt entered a period marked by military conquest and cultural finesse. Now it says I have read that the Canaanites absorbed now listen to this. The Canaanites absorbed technological and artistic innovations for Egypt and the Egyptians in turn adopted some Canaanite deities and techni uh technologies. So it tells you right here the areas where Canaanite culture had the most influence over Egypt was its religion, religious matter and Egyptian cults. In this period, a group of Canaanite deities was accepted into the Egyptian pantheon. Temples of the these gods and goddesses are known from Egypt and they are now and they now appear on Egyptian monuments as worshiped entities both by private p persons or Pharaoh himself.
Additionally, in other aspects of life, one can identify that the Canaanites the Canaanite effect. For example, after thousands of years of Egyptian pottery production with handleless jars in this period, Egyptians, they were called M uh M4 or produced with handles as an imitation of Canaanite jars. So, what they're trying to showcase is is that the Egyptians were actually uh producing jars that uh I'm trying to see is it amar a jars that they got from the Canaanites. It also says that so well as around the uh eastern Mediterranean other cases the first use of uh scimitars which are those curved swords.
So those were originally uh Canaanites.
So they're what they're showcasing is it says by the Egyptians. Not only were scimitars used during the period in Egypt but they became an Egyptian symbol of power. So this Canaanite sword actually was raised to the point where they used it as a symbol as power. So right there is letting you know that these Canaanites actually influence had a very great influence on the Egyptians as well as the Egyptians have an influence on the Canaanites. But the thing is is that what the the most important thing that we need to take back from this conversation is the fact that the Egyptians did pull from the Canaanite pantheon. So, um, how much time do I got?
>> You have 2 minutes and 45 seconds.
>> Okay, cool. All right. Um, so with that, let me see.
Okay. Um, so let me let me keep going. Uh, let's see here.
Well, anyway, uh let me I had something else I wanted to share.
Where is it?
This is okay. So, this is what um I wanted to go back to this because this is something that um Jabari brought out and he talked about like I said he talked about the time periods and whatnot. Now what needed to be brought out is the fact that uh in the Phoenician inscription from Biblo it lets you know that the most prominent deity is Valot Bubble.
She is the most prominent pro uh prominent deity. She is the lady of Biblo and she has been identified with a start a not a Shira Aphrodite Isis and Hathar. But it tells you that she is the most prominent out of all of them.
According to this source, it says the urge to find her true name is based on the assumption that Lady of Biblo cannot be a proper name. What they're saying is that this is an epithet. Right? Like a title. Now, it says the paper uses categories of linguistic um nomastics to discriminate that the lady of Biblo can be a proper name. So, what is this? What am I bringing this out for?
So it says here a permanent Egyptian presence is attested in Biblo from the middle of the third millennium. In Egyptian sources, Lady of Biblo is well known as an epithet of Hatheror for the first time in the coffin text. So they actually showcase that uh the name uh that um excuse me that Hatheror was actually referred to as the lady of Biblo. Okay, let me make sure I got that right. Yeah, Lady of Biblo is well known as the epidet of Hatheror in the coffin text. So, um, right here is letting you know that not only that Biblo, uh, cause callot lady of, uh, um, excuse me, let me slow down. Not only did Biblo call, uh, their goddess lady of Biblo Balot, but they also are calling Hathor the same thing. And she remember she is the most prominent of the deities because it says right here the most prominent deity and she is also the most important deity in biblo. So uh if that was the case why wouldn't they call her hathor or her other Egyptian name which I'm not what is it? I'm not even I'm not familiar with her Egyptian name. Forgive me. I'll get it.
>> All right. Thank you. But that will be it.
>> Right time. Brother Jabari, we going into another round. This will be another round here. 10 minutes will start when you start, brother.
>> Okay, I want to show you a few things first.
>> Family, y'all get ready out there to have your questions. And one more thing, show love for Nefali. She's not afraid to come in. I don't want to see no disparaging remarks on the sister. Go ahead. Go ahead, Jabari.
>> Right. Um, I I want you to take a look at this image.
Senator, can Oh, good. You showed it.
>> Are you ready, Jabar? Are you ready?
>> Yes. Please go.
>> Time stop.
>> Does anyone know what this is?
I want you to understand that this is a Shinto temple. Shinto is one of the spiritual forms of Japan.
And this temple is in the United States.
So therefore, the Japanese have greatly influenced the United States. Therefore, the Japanese are in control of the United States. These are the slippery assertions that I hear our sister making.
This Kemet was a very powerful cosmopolitan nation. Finding a one stelle of a deity doesn't explain anything.
All it means is that somebody was looking at um a deity from Biblo and said this deity fits into our system.
Well, it doesn't mean that they are in in control, but this is the kind of slippery logic that I keep hearing our sister make.
It's really slippery.
Please, simply because there is one stle that does not mean that they, as she has uh asserted greatly influenced ke.
In fact, let me show you this.
She keeps mentioning Phoenicia.
This is usually where people say Phoenicia exists. At least one of the places they say it exists, right? And here are some of the cities. You see Biblo, you see modern Beirut, you see Sidon, you see Tyer and you can see its proximity to Kemet.
So I want you to listen. These, by the way, these are all considered Seemetic people.
I want you I told you I would do this. I want you to hear how the um the the prince of Ty res um uh uh uh mentions the king of KT who was Aenatan at the time. By the way, Akenatan is not even an extremely powerful king of Kemet. But he writes him this letter. This is at the Metropolitan Museum. It is called the Armaner letter, royal letter from Abi Milu of Tire to the King of Egypt.
Let's see who has more influence. Listen to how he he um speaks to Akenat. He says to the king, "My lord, my god, my son. Message of Abiu, your service. I fall at the feet of my king, my lord.
Seven times and seven times. I am the dirt under the sandals of the king. My Lord, my Lord is the son who comes forth over all the lands by day according to the way of being. The son, his gracious father, who gives life by his sweet breath and returns with his north wind, who established the entire land in peace by the power of his arms.
Happy sea who gives forth this cry in the sky like Bal and in the land is frightened at his cry. That is just part of the letter. He says that he is the sand beneath the sandals of the comedic king.
You have to understand what is being said.
This is not a situation where simply because you can find a stelle this means that the people of Biblo were they greatly influenced KeT. What does that mean?
What does that mean? Once again, simply because there is a Shinto temple in the United States, does that mean that the Japanese have greatly influenced um the United States? Does it mean that the Japanese are in control of the United States? This is the way that we that this is what she is saying. It's problematic by the way. Even what she's reading says even what she's reading says that Bib Biblo was often under the control of KeT. She says, "Well, all of the cedar comes from Biblo." What does that mean? The United States doesn't have any diamonds. There are more diamonds in the Congo. Are you saying that the African nation of the Congo is more powerful than the United States?
What are you saying? Do you know how many things the United States gets from Mexico? Does that mean that Mexico is more powerful than the United States?
These arguments are really, really poor.
And I wish that she and I and I mean this with no disrespect.
If she could just get the proper context, she would be able to make stronger arguments. By the way, she keeps saying steel. It's a stelle. It's a stelle.
That's what she's referring to. Why am I talking about her pronunciation? Am I just trying to be a a high school teacher? No. Because what I'm trying to say is if you had done a lot of reading, if you were familiar with the this area, you would know how a word is pronounced.
But when you mispronounce so many words, words of scholars, you don't know the name of of Heteru. All of these things mean that you are unfamiliar. Biblo does not control Ke. By no stretch of the imagination would you make that argument.
By an extension, by extension, how about we look at this? Uh, by the way, one of the things that she still hasn't done, notice that she shifted the the the goalpost entirely this conversation and the thing that she said that that conversation >> four minutes you said.
>> Yeah.
>> Good. And the thing that she said that prompted this conversation is that Heeru is a Canaanite deity. Now she's trying to say, "You can see some Canaanite stuff in Keith." That's what their argument is now. She's already relinquished her position.
Did you hear it? I heard it. IF YOU DIDN'T HEAR IT, NO, let's do it another way. If you did hear that, put a one in the chat. I want you to acknowledge that you heard it because she's no longer making her argument anymore.
Is she simply going to look for things in Keith that seem to have come from Canaan? Is that what she's doing? Does that mean that Canaan is more influential in KemT than a place where you have a prince of a subsidiary um city saying you are the sand underneath my feet?
In order for her to substantiate her argument, she needs to give me an image of Bel uh of um her deity.
Um I need to see her bel Jabal in Kemet.
And I need to see that that is how she comes and that she's in KeT long before we see her in Ke.
You're seeing her at the top of the pallet of Nmer.
This is at 3,100 or 3,200 BCE. Don't take my word for it.
I'm giving you sources. This comes from the American Historical Society and they're telling you where it's from. Can you see if she is at the top of the pallet of Nmer? Show me Bal Gabal in Kemet earlier than this. Show me hu in Biblo earlier than this.
YOU CANNOT. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE ARGUING.
Don't just show me a slab of stone in Kemet that seems to have some influence from the the um from the from Biblo.
What does that mean? It means nothing.
It doesn't help your argument. You need to build it stronger than that for it to make sense.
Once again, scholarly article, right?
This is from Sage Journal.
>> One minute and 30 seconds.
>> Good. This is from Sage Journal. And I want you to see here on page one. This is modern designs on pre-dynastic st uh uh slate pallets, right? 1955. This is not a new article. Listen what it says here. One of the figures um in relief on the rim must have been a head of Hathor.
They're using that name as a cow.
Similar to the heads in the pears at the top of the pallet of Nmer, but with the stars at the tip of each horn. I can show you that pallet as well. They're telling you the pallet of Nmer has has heteroo.
That's what they're saying.
That's what they're saying. There's no other way around it. Show me it earlier elsewhere.
That's all I need to see. And if you do that, I will I will relent. But because you cannot, you must relent.
That's just how this game is played.
By the way, this is even earlier. Here goes the nata to stellle.
This is earlier than the pallet of narr also in Kemet. It is believed to be um uh Heru. This is before Kmet becomes a powerful nation. I could do this all day.
Heteru is comedic. Heteru if if she's not comedic then she's Nubian. She's cussidic.
>> All right. All right. Um Nefthali, you got your round coming up and a message to my brother. Civil War folk. Civil War. They just hate Nefali. That's why they always jumping her about three at a time. No, my brother beloved, we can never hate Nef Ali. We love Nefali. We don't hate her. We love Nefali. She got love over here. Just because we don't agree with the information, brother, don't mean we hate her. I don't agree with the Hebrews. I don't hate you. I don't hate Qua. I love Brotherwa. There was a time we was banging on each other, but I learned to love and respect that brother. He's a good dude to me. Me and JJ go at it all the time. I don't hate JJ. I hate the knowledge. So, I just want y'all to know that there's no hate over here. That's otherwise you wouldn't be here. People wouldn't be here.
Cesaria, I mean, promotion, whatever y'all got, y'all could come here. So, with me clearing that up, Nefali, it's on you. You got 10 minutes. Whenever you ready.
Just a second, son. Let me pull my screen up.
All right, guys. Let's let's get uh back to business. I do apologize for the delay.
All righty. I just share my screen.
Okay. So before I start talking, I want to just um talk about what uh Jabari brought out. So he says that um I was speaking that biblo greatly influenced Kimmit. Uh that's if that's what you're hearing or that's what you're getting from what I'm saying.
>> Thank you so much. Now, what Jabari was saying that like I was trying to impose that Kimid I mean that Biblo greatly influenced Kimid and that's not true and if that's what you're getting for what I'm saying then you need to pay attention because what I'm saying is is that they had a now Egypt was ruling was the ruling class but due to their relationship they gained a relationship together and they began to influence each other okay they were influential to each other meaning that Um the Egyptians absorbed some of the uh Canaanite gods and we saw that on that stale. Okay, they were bending down worshiping uh Canaanite deities. Um now as far as uh Jabari what he has to say, people are entitled to their own opinions. U Jabari is sharing his opinion as well as sources as well as I am. So Jabari can say what he wants to say but he's entitled to his his opinion. Now, as far as me mispronounce my misprononunciation of words. Excuse me. I'm only human. Okay, forgive me.
And also, you're standing in front of hundreds of people. You may miss you may misquote something for a second. Right.
Okay. Now, Biblo is in control of Egypt.
No, it is not. And I and I'm sorry that bar that Jabari felt that way, but he needs to pay a little bit more attention because I never said that Biblo was anything of in control of of Kimmit. Not at all. Um so now let me get back to my point here.
So right here this this source is saying that the the function of temple of Balad Gibble as one of the first meeting places in relation between Egypt and Biblo could be better understood with the knowledge of the socopolitical system prevailing in the Lebanese port during the third millennium BC as well as the ideological relationship of the goddess to the system. Now it says during the early Bronze Age, Biblo may have been ruled by a monarchy similar to the one during the middle and late Bronze Ages. A cylinder seal found in Biblo and dated in the old kingdom seems to indicate the existence of rulers in the city. Although its text poses many problems of interpretation, it mentions with a cert with certainty a ruler of the foreign country in Biblo. So, what are they saying here is they found a cylinder seal. Uh, now they're having issues uh deciphering it, but they said for a fact they know the ruling ruler of the foreign country was in Biblo. Now, it says here, "Balak Gable's connection with the monarchy of Biblo is documented for the late middle kingdom and especially for the new kingdom." It says in the letters of El Amarna, King Riv Adibos usually headed his message wishing that the goddess of Biblo should protect the Egyptian Pharaoh.
Now in this letter and this tell I mean this El Amarna letter that uh Riv Adibos the king of Biblo he sent to the Egyptians. He haded the the message wishing that the goddess of Biblo should protect the Egyptians pharaohs. Now, if they worship uh Hathar or her ketic uh counterpart, u I'm sure Jabar is going to insert that. When they put that in the Ela letter, uh instead they said the goddess of Biblo or they referring to the goddess of Biblo. They said during the first millennia BC, the king of Biblo said they were protected by Balot Geel. They didn't say they were protected by Hathor. And again, you know, her her alias. It says despite the distance in time, it would not be unreasonable to think that the goddess was already considered to be the protector of the royalty of Biblo and early Bronze Age. Now, they said the protector of roy royalty of the early bronze age. She was the protector earlier than that. Okay, that was this is what consensus they came to. But it says here the loggram which appears in the for mentioned cylinder seal could re refer to the goddess in many case her importance during this period is certain given in the large dimension of her temple and its location in the center of the city. Now it says the cult to the goddess of biblo must have been an important meeting ground for Egypt and Biblo although not the only one. There was probably other links besides this one among which must have been the direct context between the rulers which were well known in the late bronze age relations between the so sovereigns of Egypt and biblo scene. Now right here it says here that the goddess of biblo must have been an important meeting ground for Egypt and biblo. Why would the goddess of Biblo be of any importance if the Egyptian What does the Egyptians have to do with any goddess of the of Biblo? They should have nothing to do with now. They should have uh the goddess of Egypt.
>> Five minutes. Five minutes.
>> Keith should be important to the uh bib the people in Biblo, the Canaanites and Biblo, the Phoenicians and Bibos, whatever you want to classify them as.
But why would the goddess of bibllos remember it's not like he referred to in uh different um America has their gods right the uh so-called uh Arabians have their gods why would gods in Arabia be important to people in America who worship uh you know who are Christians that wouldn't make any sense why would their god be important the god of the goddess of biblo was important to the Egyptians and this is showcased in the El Amana letter. Okay, so that is another source to showcase that of her importance.
Um also this is um showcasing that chapter 2 the god representing the scimitar sword on the cylinder seal from Beth Sheen uh Bel Seth or rest uh rest shelf. So it says, "The unique Egyptian cylinder seal found in 1925 during excavations of the University of Pennsylvania at Bethsheen portrays a Canaanite god presenting the scimittor sword of victory to King Ramsey II. It says the se the seal has been frequently discussed in the context of Egyptian levventine relations during the rem uh remai period when the worship of Canaanite gods in Egypt was commonly practiced and representations of Canaanite gods frequently appeared on royal and private monuments. So right here and this is in the house of um excuse me Heant Heeken. I'm so sorry I my I do not really know how to pronounce these names. Forgive me. But what is important guys is that this Bethin portrait showcases this seal that showcases how the worship of Canaanite gods in Egypt was commonly practiced. I hope you guys are getting that from what I'm saying was that the identity of the Canaanite god depicted on the best cylinder seal has been the subject of debate. While originally identified as the synchronized Bal Seth, the god is now frequently considered a representing uh rechef based on the classification.
So irregardless is letting you know that a on this particular still the Beth Sheen cylinder still showcases uh worship of Canaanite gods. So that's another source showcasing that the Egyptians were indeed worshiping Canaanite gods. Also the Ela letter showcases how the bib the um the king of Biblo was writing to them saying how you know may the goddess of Biblo be a protector. If the goddess was indeed an Egyptian goddess should understand that they should be saying that the Egyptian goddess. Wouldn't that be more respectful to the Egyptians to not take claim of their goddess as if it was their own? I mean that's just something that we have to make um a clarification of. Right. So um I just want to let me back on what I was saying about the age of biblo. So he talked about how these stone obelisk go back to uh Egypt. Uh now over time um let me res let me let me say this. It says Bibos is among the cities listed as candidates for the distinction of the oldest city in the world. Okay, so it's is listed as a candidate for the distinction of one of the oldest cities in the world and it has been continuously inhabited for over 7,000 years. So it's been continuously inhabited for over 7,000 years. So my thing is is that maybe we can make the claim that they were influenced by the Canaanites as far as uh as far as not to play it because um if you look at dependent on your source it would tell you that it was 8,000 years and this is right here modern archaeological excavation have revealed that Biblo was occupied at least by the Neolithic period 8,000.
So, and I'm not saying BC, I'm just saying 8,000 years right here. Okay? And that during the fourth millennium BC, an extensive settlement developed there. It says because Biblo Okay, so right there is letting you know that Biblo was inhab was inhabited 8,000 years. And we know goes back 7,000 years. So, there is actually a thousand years right there of time that they had before not to play.
So, uh making it more older. So, shouldn't that if we if you guys want to say that Egypt is more influential because they're older, shouldn't we say the same about Biblo?
>> All right, family, family, family.
We going to into the um the rebuttals right now. The rounds is three is over and we're going to give you eight minutes a piece to rebuttal. That's all y'all need. I want 10 minutes to rebuttle all this stuff or what? Eight minutes is good. Okay. So, we're going to give you eight minutes. Say what?
Eight minutes to rebuttle. Brother Jabari, you got eight minutes to rebuttle all of this and then I will have you two ask each other questions and then we'll open up the lines for the people.
>> Let's let's start where she ended. She said that >> huh.
>> Time is starting.
>> Okay, good. She said that Biblo actually has been inhabited for 8,000 years.
8,000 years. Um, and I think that um that that makes it a very old city.
Um, but I don't think that it it does what she thinks it does. I I I think that what she's end what she's doing really here is she's clouding the image in a way in her own head. But I I really do believe that most people are able to hear that she's no longer making an argument. She's simply saying, "Hey, there's some Canaanite, that's what she's saying, stuff in Keith." That's all she's saying.
And I want us to understand that that's problematic. She also said that Natla goes back 7,000 years. Queen F. Tali, you would now get an F in my class.
You would now get an F in my class because you're not listening to the lecture. Ntopia goes back to 9,000 BCE.
Not 9,000, not 7,000 years. Not 7,000 B.CE.
9,000 BC. Ser, please put the screen up again. This is knoblier.
It is an ancient the oldest ancient stone calendar. Oh goodness. And this keeps happening.
H it is the oldest ancient stone calendar. And I want you to understand that as we are looking at it, what >> you ain't showing nothing. You ain't showing nothing. Jabari, >> I took it down so that I could actually um >> Yeah, please do that for a quick second.
>> You had six minutes 14 seconds.
>> Okay, good. Let me do it again so you can see because I want you to see that this is not coming from Jabari. This is scholarship. This is coming from what the scholars are saying. You can go ahead and Okay. Why is it frozen now?
Come on.
Okay. You can you can share share this and start again.
>> All right.
>> This is Navda and I want you to see that this is coming from ancient Egypt online. Look at the date they're giving it.
as early as 9,000 BCE.
So, it's not 7,000 years. By the way, simply saying that someone lives someplace in 8,000 B.CE. doesn't help. I showed you that we have proof of people living in what would be Kemet in 10,000 B.CE. She's not She's NOT RESPONDING TO ARGUMENTS ANYMORE.
She's not even responding to arguments anymore.
So maybe she's on the phone. Maybe that maybe that's what's happening. Maybe that's what's happening. And that's the challenge that we're having. She's she's speaking to um towan. Maybe by the way she also keeps mentioning this temple.
This is sometimes called the temple of the obelisks. But this is a temple that is connected to Belot Gabal. Look at the comedic imagery.
the the the signs go back there. This is not a situation where we're seeing that the Canaanites are the ones that are greatly influencing Kemet.
We're seeing that Kemet is greatly influencing the um the people that she's trying to describe. And I don't know why she continues to describe it this way.
I'm not even sure why we're doing this anymore. By the way, here's the article that she read. THIS IS HER ARTICLE.
THIS IS OUR ARTICLE. The role of the temple of Balot Gabal as intermediary between Egypt and Biblo during the old kingdom. Here is what it says on the third page. Please you have to read the sources. Well, first an analysis is made of possible Egyptian influence and of material allegedly bu beginning to the old kingdom associated to the building and cultural practices of the temple of Balak Gabal.
We have grouped them in three sections.
Ground, planned and building of temple decorations, objects destined for the cult. Finally, all these of these data are interpreted and an evaluation is made of the role of the Egyptian cult to blet balot gabal in the old kingdom. You have to understand that now what this article does is it goes through and you can see as we will observe in the first sentence the existence of old kingdom influences the old kingdom of Kemet is difficult to ascertain in the study of architectural characteristics and decorative elements of the temple go further down. However, the information for cultic objects analyzed in third section is clearer. Stone vessels and especially flat top circle tables offer important evidence for the reconstruction of cultic diplomatic activities of THE EGYPTIANS IN THE SANCTUARY. THEY WERE THE ONES THAT INFLUENCED THE BUILDING OF THE TEMPLE.
THIS IS HER ARGUMENT. THIS IS HER SOURCE.
Her source impeaches her again.
Folks, she even arguing anymore.
Is she arguing anymore?
First she stopped arguing that Heteru was a comedic deity. She relinquished that. Then she tried to say, "Well, they they had some influence in Kemet." What does that mean? Most of the influence goes in the other direction. Kemet was in control of of um Biblo for a very long period of time. What is she doing now? I'm not even sure if I understand anymore. I also want you to take a look once again. She has not shown us a an image of Balot Gabal earlier. She hasn't shown us an image of Heteru at all in in in Biblo.
And this is the source that I GAVE HER.
AND I TOLD YOU FRIDAY I WAS BEING CONSERVATIVE. I'm not being conservative anymore. I'm not being conservative anymore. Does she know about this? This is usually called the Hathorle or the Gerza pallet.
And you have to know that it comes from natada 2. That means that it is earlier than than um than Nmer's pallet.
>> Two minutes.
>> We are seeing Heu in Kemet earlier.
Earlier she hasn't even showed it to us once in Biblo.
Her argument. She's even relinquished her argument.
Let me say something to you.
Honestly, what we're doing here is we're now in Silly Town. That's where we are.
You have gotten a key to Silly Town.
You're in Silly Town now. It don't make any sense. WHAT YOU HAVE TO ASK her now is WHAT'S THE POINT? WHY is it so important to you? You remember she started by saying that her job was to support the Bible with historical evidence. That's her that's her fate of complete. And by the way, that's always going to have you lose. Why are you trying to support a a biblical text, a religious text with history?
That book is not supposed to be a his read historically. It's not a history book. It it's a book that has a little history in it. That's it.
When you try to do that, you will fail.
What is she really trying to do? What she's trying to do is argue that perhaps perhaps, take a look at this. Perhaps what we're actually seeing is that the biblical narrative predates Kemet. Take a look at this. Once again, this is always what they do. Here's our conversation with Zion Lex.
They're trying to say, "Well, the Sumerianss, the people of Sumer and the Hebrews are connected. Sumer is older than Kemet, which it's not. Then obviously the biblical narrative is older than Kemet.
The the the followers of the Bible, the Hebrews that we're talking to, they don't rock with the Canaanites.
THEY THOUGHT THE CANAANITES WERE EVIL.
When we come back, you need to ask Nefali of her thoughts about the Canaanites. Doesn't she believe that the Hebrews were to take the Canaanites house? She doesn't worship Kaanite deities, even if she was correct about all of what she said in the last few weeks, which he is not on the biblical narrative.
There's the point. That's why we're having this discussion, which he will clearly continually fail at.
All right. All right, Nefali, you got eight minutes in this um rebuttal. You got eight minutes in your rebuttal, Nefali. Let's get it in. Let's go.
Time will start when you start.
>> Wow. You know, Jabari, I thought that you were better than that. The >> You want me to start? Start now.
>> Go ahead, please. Because the diminishing, the name calling, the put downs. I don't know what Zion Lex had to do with this conversation.
Go ahead. Please go ahead. One more time. The diminishing, the name calling.
Uh, I thought you were better than that.
I thought when we talked on the phone that you said you weren't going to be doing that. I thought that's what this I thought the conversation was going to be on what we're talking about, not on what Zian Lex and I did uh a long time ago. I I really don't understand that conversation has to do with this.
And that's pretty sad and it's embarrassing and it's really sad. You talk about your credential. You talk about how fair you are. But you want to bring up a conversation and talk about, oh, she thinks that uh Kim, I mean, she thinks that and what the what does she have to do with the Bible? What the Bible has to do with the Canaanites and does she worship? What does any of that have to do with this conversation?
What does this have to do with the information that's being presented tonight? It has absolutely judging my background, judging my character, you don't know what I believe. You don't know. I didn't come up here talking about anything like that. I didn't go back and look at your previous videos and talk about what you've done and what you've said and what you believe. That has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about tonight. And you told me on the phone that you weren't going to do that. You were going to have a a actual intelligent conversation. And what now what you're doing? You're resulting excuse me, you're resulting yourself to uh being a joke and a clown.
And that's very sad. But hey, what what can you expect, right? Um, okay. So, the name calling. Now, what was my argument?
My ar my original argument was the fact that uh the title got switched, but anyway, I said that Hathor was in the Canaanite deity. All right. So, what did I showcase tonight? I pulled up. He said she did not show any uh images of Balot.
Well, I showcased scholarly sources that talked about how and let me share my screen so we can go back and look at that.
I don't know why I need an image when I have a scholarly source. The Encyclopedia Bratannica is considered to be a scholarly source. Okay. And look what it says. It says right here, Belot.
Now, is this image a part of this? No.
So, guess what? Discard it. There is gone. It says Bot also spelled Balot. is often used as synonym for a special goddess. Now it says very little is known about her but because of the close ties between biblo and Egypt she was often represented with a typical Egyptian hairstyle headdress and costume and by the 12 dynasty she was equated with the Egyptian goddess Hathor. What does that mean? Belot was equated with the Egyptian goddess Hathor. Why do I need to showcase her? I showcase a source that tells you that she was equated with the Egyptian goddess Hathor. Same thing also he talks he spoke on uh the thing about um you know the what we know is from the sources again let me make sure I slow down let me get my thoughts together. What we know from the information that I provided tonight, it showcased and he right here that the Egyptians absorb Canaanite deities.
Biblo, the goddess Biblo, the goddess of Biblo was considered to be the main goddess of that of that um for those people. She was Balot was the main deity for them.
So with that understanding if she is their main deity then and we have sources of them worshiping weaker or lesser deities.
Okay because Kadesh I mean Kadesh is Keshett is not the main prominent deity and we can look right here at their uh their pantheon if you just pro give me a second while I get that for you.
>> You want me to stop the time? Four minutes. Appreciate it, son. Thank you so much for being fair, unlike your counterpart. All right, so let me see here. Um, Gosh, where is it?
They all look the same when you're looking at them right here. Right. Uh, do I have that open? Let me just go to them. Let me just look at everything.
It's really not important, but anyway, the main You can start my time. Let's go ahead because it's not even all that important.
Oh, I think this is it right here. Yep, I got it. I got it. Go ahead.
>> So, right here, you see that Belot, the chief deity of Biblo, right there. She's considered to be the chief deity of Biblo, right? And what was my point of that again? Is to showcase to you that uh and let me get that for you. Let me go back. Here we go. They're kneeling to ketch cades. I don't know how to pronounce her name. Forgive me. But they're standing in they're building they're um they're praying to this goddess. Why wouldn't they pray to the main and prominent goddess? Also, he talked about my source right here.
I think Jabari is missing the point because he's too busy looking for me with Zion Lex. And shout out to Zion Lex. Now, right here, it lets you know that there is a letter, an Elmana letter that was sent to Ri Adibos, who usually heads his message wishing the goddess of Biblo should protect the Egyptian Pharaoh. Okay? So, he didn't say the goddess Hatheror at all. He's talking about his goddess. And guess what? He's utilizing that to pray for the Egyptian god because they worship their goddess.
They absorbed it. They absorbed it.
Okay, I have two sources, not one but two sources that showcase that the Egyptians absorbed and were worshiping Canaanite deities.
Okay, right there it says here this stelle, okay, is divided into two sections. In the lower section, describe Ramos and his wife are seen kneeling in a gesture of veneration toward the three deities depicted in the upper section.
Now he wants to say she's not on point.
She's going up. Who's the person that's going left? Who's the person that's not so no one's taking it serious? Oh, it's you with the name calling, the diminishing, saying that I'm on a phone as if I can't come up with my own information myself. How disrespectful.
Why do I need to be on the phone? I'm sitting here listening to everything you're saying and writing it down. I don't need to talk to nobody. I don't need to speak with nobody. I put my information together on my own. What is it because I'm a woman? Or let me go ahead and pull this card. Is it because I'm a black woman that I can't sit here and read my information and thoroughly exam? I need to call Quana. No, no, I don't need to call PA. I don't need to talk to my husband.
>> And with my And what are your credentials? And listen to me. I am a data analyst. I'm a BA. I'm I don't know what you're talking about to sit there and put me down like that. I didn't I like I said, you they told me to have I wanted Shaka almost. That's who I wanted to talk to. But they said Jabari would be much more fair to speak with. But guess what? This man is actually pretty horrible. Okay. So, um, also he's bringing up sources like this 12,000 or however many years he wants to say about um, Napa.
Was that even a scholarly source?
Egypt.com. I mean, gosh, I can go pull up a source anywhere. What What does that mean? You know what I'm saying?
Just go anywhere. Just pull up a source.
5,000, 10,000, 100,000. Why not? Just put anytime on there. Who cares? I thought we were supposed to be setting setting to some form of guidelines. Uh, you talked about Encyclopedia Bratannica. You put that down, but you can pull up a source from Egypt.com.
Okay, I see that whatever's relevant to you, you can utilize, but when it comes to other people, you know, you have to put their stuff down. And shame on you for that. again. Shane, >> thank you.
>> All right. Um, we are in now in the question and answer period. Great job, Nef Dolly. Great job. Nefali know how to swing blows back now. Y'all got to stop playing. She know how to swing back.
Okay. So, with this right here, I'm going to give y'all the opportunity to question and answer each other. And um, you have two minutes to answer the question. It's two minutes. You have two minutes to answer the question. Um, who would like to go first? Brother Jabari.
Napali.
>> I'll allow her to go first if she'd like.
>> Yes, Nefali.
>> If not, then I'll go first. I mean, it doesn't matter.
>> No, go ahead, Jabari. Uh, thank you.
>> The time will start when you finish the question.
>> Well, this is the the first thing I need to say is that she said I called her a name. I I certainly didn't call her name. She called me A CLOWN.
I haven't called her any names. None.
Did you hear me call her a name?
>> Is that the question you want to ask me?
Because I'm getting ready to tell you what you called me.
>> I'm getting ready. I'm ready to tell you.
>> You do the name calling as far when you say >> Hold on. It's not >> You asking me the question or not? I'm sorry.
>> It doesn't work that way. It does not work that way. It doesn't >> Let's Let's keep it. Come on, Jabi. You got the >> you I want you to look at your own source on the role of the temple of Galat Gabbal. And I'd like for you to read to us what you understand about how that temple is built and the comedic influence in the building of that temple. Did you read that?
>> It would have been good if you would have put it up. Jamari, >> I can put it up.
>> Yeah, that would be good in your question.
>> If you did read that, can you explain why how the ground plan of the temple shows comedic influence? Oops, sorry.
comedic influence rather than it going the other way. Could you you could show it.
>> All right. So, you can read it off here.
Can you blow it up?
>> Give me a second here. Here's a better place here.
Uh there it starts here and it goes to the next page. Did you read that section? Are you famili Can you explain that section?
This is your source, not mine.
>> Okay. So, um, you want me to read which section?
>> I'd like you to read it or at least explain it.
>> This part right here.
>> Egyptian presence in the temple of Balot Gabal.
>> Say it again.
>> Do you see the section here that says Egyptian presence in the >> I read I read all of that. I don't know if you were paying attention. Maybe you were on the phone, but um, >> explain you maybe you were on the phone when I read that, but um let me let me ask you he's asking you the question.
Let me ask you the question.
>> I know because I'm I'm telling him that I did read that and that he probably didn't hear me read that because he was probably on the phone talking to let me go ahead and um continue on.
>> You're always on the phone with Cornell when we speak.
>> I'm always on the phone with >> I can confirm that he's always on the phone.
>> Okay, now I'm always on the phone with him.
>> Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the deal. You are I don't take you to be a liar.
>> I don't I think that you're an honest person, but you're misrepresenting something here. HAVE YOU SPOKE HERE'S THE QUESTION. HAVE YOU SPOKEN TO Quana since you and I got on Streamyard today?
>> Wow. Are we really having a third grade argument? Yeah, you're resulting. You're supposed to be this huge historian and all of this, but now we're going to talk about am I on the phone with Kuna? Okay.
>> All right. Let's get back to the reading over here with the No, no, no, no, no.
He wants this is where he wants to take the conversation. Let's take it though.
Let's not talk about the information.
Let's talk about me being on the phone.
>> Asked you several times about the cover.
>> Please let me let me and I will get to that. But let me talk about this because the first thing you said was you did not name call me. What you did was insult me. Yeah, sorry. You insulted me by saying that I was on the phone with someone when I was not. It was not needed to even bring that up. Nor. Uh, and then the thing is you talk about me being on the phone with Quon. Quan called me because he had a question that he wanted to ask.
>> You were on the phone.
>> Is that my fault? Is that my fault that he called me to want to speak with >> on the phone?
>> Excuse me.
>> All right. Time out. Time out. Time out.
Time out. Time out. Jabari. Time out.
Nefali. Let's start this all over.
Jabari.
>> This is your person. This is your person acting like this.
>> Nefali. Nefali. I'm saying out. That mean I gotta be quiet for a minute.
We're gonna take it from the top again.
Jabari, let's get back to the information.
>> Stop. Stop. Let me finish. Brother, >> I need you to ask Nefali a question pertaining to the information that we dealing with. It's on >> didn't answer. But here's the question again. In your source on the th on the second page of the article, it explains that the construction of the temple shows that the comedic people influenced the very building of the temple. Do can you explain to us how this article expla describes that?
>> Go ahead, Nefali.
>> This is your article.
>> I got it. Let me let me look at a source real quick that I have. Just give me one second so I can explain.
>> This is your source.
I know. And I'm going to share showcase another source. Is Is that okay?
>> Nefali. Nefali. Nefali. He's asking you to explain this.
>> I will. And I'm gonna explain it with another source. I'm gonna explain it. It don't work like that.
>> He's saying this source here.
>> I know. And I'm going to elaborate a little bit more with more information.
Why don't you guys want me to elaborate? Go ahead.
>> You know, people want to show I want to showcase extra information. That's all.
Nefari thing is he's not asking you about nothing else. He's asking you about this particular >> question. You only got two minutes to answer the question.
>> If you just give me a second to just look at something that Okay, guys.
Relax.
>> I will do the same for you. Believe me, if Jabari try to go left, I'mma stop him in his tracks when you ask him a question.
All right. So it says data concerning an Egyptian presence in the temple of Canaanite goddess are in some cases debatable as we will observe in the first instance. The instance of the old kingdom influence is difficult to ascertain in the study of the architectural characteristics and decorative elements of the temple which are studied in the first and second sections. All right, keep going.
>> Yes.
>> Says, however, the information from the cultic objects analyzed in the third section is clearer. Stone vessels and especially flat top circular tablets offer important evidence for the reconstruction of the cultic diplomatic activities Egyptians in the sanctuary.
So it shows right there that there were some reconstructions and the Egyptians came in and did some reconstructions. Um you look at hold on let me continue on.
This is actually not an uncommon practice. Uh dur to have Thor's um her temple. Uh the Romans actually came in and they actually did some reconstruction on hers as well. I have a source to provide that source for that too. Um right here. And let me share my screen.
S do I have time to share my screen or no?
>> Yes, you got time. You got a minute and 15 seconds.
>> Appreciate you. Thank you so much. All right. So let's showcase my screen here and let me see.
So um are you already seeing my screen?
>> Yeah.
>> All right. So um it says Dendera also spelled Dendera uh architectural town in the west bank of the Nile uh in upper Egypt. The modern town is built on the ancient site of um Thai. I don't know how to say that. Anyway, it was the capital of the Sith sixth non feronic upper Egypt and was dedicated to the sky and fertility goddess Hathor. Her temple is one of the best preserved in Egypt.
The present building dates of the uh Polemeic period and was completed by the Roman emperor Tibervarius. So right there it showcases how the Roman temp the Roman uh emperor Tiberarius actually completed um uh Hathor's temple. Does that mean that it wasn't Egyptian? Does it mean that it didn't derive from the Egyptians? No. It just mean that they respected the goddess and they wanted to make sure that they uh completed her temple. But it says but it rests on the foundation of an earlier building dating back at least as far as Kufu. So, they're letting you know that, >> right?
>> So, let me just say I just want to say that um it's not unusual for other um other uh like we see the Romans here to come in and you know do some form of reconstruction. So, there you go.
>> All right. Time. Brother Jabari, you got one minute to rebuke that and then Neali, you can ask your question.
>> You got one minute, Jabari.
>> Okay. Can you give me um just a second?
Um >> yes.
>> Okay. Give me a moment and I'll tell you when to begin.
>> Um, >> so Nefali, while he's doing this, you should be getting your question ready for him.
Wow.
Oh boy.
I want to I'm I'm getting a picture.
That's what I'm um trying to do here.
So, give me one moment.
>> Um, boy, why didn't I download the picture?
Okay, I'm about to give up on finding the picture. Um, because there just too many pictures in this folder for me to be able to easily find it. Um, I really wanted to Give me just a moment more.
>> No, I'm not going to I'm not going to find the picture that easily. Um, what what I wanted to show you was the image of me in the temple.
>> All right. Go ahead. Take your time.
>> Uh, what I wanted to show you is an image of me leading a tour in the temple that you >> You want me to start the minute?
>> Yes, please.
>> You don't want to put back up the page, the article?
>> Oh, yeah. That is what I'm going to put up. That is what >> That's what I'm saying. You want to do that now? You got one minute.
>> I want you to know that um that article is not talking about You can put it on the screen. Uh Sonar, it's not talking about the reconstruction.
>> Minute starts. Your minute starting.
>> It's not talking about the reconstruction of a building. It's saying that the flattop circular tables offer important evidence for the reconstruction of the cultic and diplomatic activities. is the reconstruction of the activities of the Egyptians in the sanctuary. So what they're trying to explain to you is the the items there show you exactly how much activity they had in the sanctuary.
It has nothing to do with reconstruction in terms of building an actual like space. And so what I'm trying to explain to you is you actually need to read some more of this so you understand the context of what is being said. This is your source, but you don't understand what you're reading. That's that's the point. And please understand with the few seconds I have left, I have not called anyone a name at all. And I wouldn't do that. What I am challenging is your understanding of the sources.
And if that is offensive, trust me, offending you is not my my point, but it is an important thing for us to point out this evening.
All right, Nefali, you can ask Jabari a question.
>> Okay. All right.
So your you were so your point was was the fact is is that I'm kind of confused. Can you pull that article back up again?
>> Sure.
>> Okay. It's there.
>> All right. So what is your exact issue?
So you were saying that um and so it says here that the temple of Lady of Bibles was the largest and most complex shrine in the Canaanite city during the early Bronze Age. In this period, the building underwent several transformations. So it says that it went through mute. Um Sorry, I have a house full of kids.
Okay, it's okay.
>> So, right here it says the temple of the lady of biblos was the largest and the most complex shrine in the Canaanite city during the early bronze age. Now, it says that her went through and it says the building went through uh several transformation during the uh K3 phase of bibos with the Egyptian fourth and fifth dynasty. So right there it lets you know that it has gone through many different transformations.
So what is your issue?
>> What I'm saying to you is is this article is about how the comedic people dominated the building of the temple. By the way, you just I didn't I wasn't asking you to read that paragraph. I was asking you to answer to um to read the paragraph above, but you chose to read that paragraph. Look at the end of the paragraph.
>> Okay.
>> This is my time. So you can just relax for a second.
>> You're asking me what is your issue? So I'm answering.
>> Okay, please relax. It's really okay.
>> I'm not offended. I'm not I'm >> You're a little amped, but go ahead. Let me go ahead. Relax. Jabari, >> what's the point asking me? You just asked me a question. I'm answering the question and then you told me that I'm amped.
>> Okay. Well, go ahead and ask. Go ahead and answer the question. Everything's okay.
>> Said, "What's the problem with the how I'm reading this?" But right under now I was asking you to read the the paragraph above the small section above but you chose to read the one ground plan and building of the temple but if you had read even the entire paragraph it says this has led some authors to believe that the temple of Bill Biblo was the work of Egyptian craftsmen OF THAT PERIOD.
THIS SUPPOSITION however cannot be proved because there's no conclusive on the existence of direct relations during the two states during this dynasty there >> is no way they don't have any proof but guess what we do what I showcase and I'm trying to ask you this right now do you from the information that we have >> nefali nefali >> I'm asking a question >> he have two minutes to answer his question and you keep interrupting he speak for the two that you had.
>> I thought that I can ask him. So I So I >> No, no, no. You gotta get you got to let him answer in his two minutes like you just did. You see? And then you will get a minute to rebuttle what he said.
>> Just like you just did.
>> Make sure he gets that. Start his time over and allow him.
>> No, no, we ain't got to start over. He got another minute left. He got 40 He got 54 seconds left.
>> Okay. Thank you.
>> Yes. You go as you go further down, it says Sagier, this is the um uh uh the the author of one article, saw in its two entrances, one facing east and the other facing south, an influence of Egyptian architecture. Given the similarity to the ground plan of the temple of Sahurer complex complex at Abuir all throughout this article it is telling you that this temple is greatly influenced by the comedic people. In fact, while they can't prove it they're even saying perhaps it was built by Kmetic people.
That's what this article I didn't introduce the article. You introduced the article. This is why I keep saying I don't think you understand what you're reading. I'm not meaning that to be offensive. If you are offended, I apologize. THAT IS NOT MY ATTEMPT. I WAS NOT TRYING TO OFFEND YOU, BUT I WILL CONTINUE to say you're not understanding what you're reading. You need a good class.
>> All right, Nefali, you got one minute to rebut what he was saying. You got one minute. Do >> you want me to leave this up?
Nefal, you want to keep that up or no?
>> Well, uh, yeah, let me go ahead and rebuttle that. Um, go ahead.
>> It says that the most important part of that whole thing is the fact is is that they have no evidence to support that that's even true. Now, let me respond to what you said, though. Did the Egyptians have some form of um, you know, they did they have any influence on that? They sure did because they were worshiping that goddess there. They went over there and they paid homage by rebuilding and restructuring the temple. Everyone is not, no one is arguing and I don't know why that's an issue. I don't get it why that's an issue, but I got to stop my time so I can show share my screen real quick.
>> Okay, your time has stopped at 39 seconds.
>> All right. Thank you.
Okay. Am I sharing my screen? Okay. Did it do it?
>> Yes, your screen is sharing >> sharing now. Thank you. All right. So, he keeps saying that I don't understand what I'm reading. Maybe he doesn't understand what I'm saying. So, let me go ahead and share my screen again.
Right here it says that the present building dates to the ptomeic period and was completed by the Roman emperor Tiberius. Tiberius who was a Roman emperor came in and he finished Hatheror's um Hatheror's temple. So there's going to be some Roman influences in Hatheror's temple. Does that negate the fact that Hatheror is an Egyptian goddessy I mean goddess? No, it does not. What it showcases is the fact that the Romans respected and worshiped Hatheror and they wanted to fix on her temple and they rebuilt it and I mean they finished it. So guess what? That does not negate the fact that the that the goddess of uh Biblo was not the was not their goddess. It just shows that the Egyptians respected her and they came in and they added or rebuilt what was there and we see the same.
So I think he needs to have another lesson and learn.
>> Okay. Um the last one last questions y'all got and then we open up the panel.
Brother Jabari, do you have another question?
>> Uh yes. Give me one moment here. I'd like to.
>> You have two minutes to answer the question. Ali, >> give me one second. I'd like to >> without interruptions.
>> I'm sorry. My daughter is sick. I'm trying to figure out what's going on with her. Go ahead and do what you got to do.
>> It's a I'll I'll pause for a minute.
>> Are you there to listen? Because remember, I'm supposed to be asking you a question.
>> Yeah. Get your question ready, Jabari.
When she ready, she'll probably take it.
Go ahead.
>> Well, I my my question is now ready. I'm >> okay. We're going to wait for a minute till she get ready.
>> Um, I want to say to the people that comes in, I'm only going to say it one time. When you come in to ask your question, ask a question based off of the conf based off the information that they dealt with today. So, y'all will be asking questions about what y'all dealt with today. I don't want nobody coming in thinking that they going to be teaching. you are just coming in to ask a question about the the discussion we having today. Um, Jabari Napali, are you ready?
>> I am. I'm sorry, my daughter. Now, I told y'all today is a day, but go ahead.
We here.
>> Absolutely. It's absolutely fine. I have no issue if you had to pause for a second because sometimes that happens to us all. Um I I I want to um show you a slide um and then ask you um your impressions of it. This is the image of Wait, let me show it.
You got it s?
>> Yeah, I see it.
>> Okay. In this image, you are seeing Heteru on the left and Balot Gabal on the right. And what I've done on the other side is I've blown up their headdresses. Can you see that when they say that Balot Gabal is wearing an Egyptian headdress, do you see the sundisk and cow horns? And wouldn't this mean that Bellat Gabal is influenced by Heterru, not the other way around?
>> All right, you got two minutes. Um, Lali, >> repeat that one more time. I do apologize.
>> Okay, I'm saying that on the left we have Heru. On the right, let me use my mouse so you can see what I'm talking about. This is Heru or Hatheror as you've called her, right? As the Greeks called her. And this is Bal Gabal. This is your image, right? Right. The one that you had in your presentation. What I've done here is I've blown up her headdress here and Balot Gabal's headdress here.
I'm saying, doesn't the fact that Balot Gabal has the sundisk and cow horns mean that she is the one that is influenced by Heteru, not the other way around?
>> All right, you got two minutes left, Dolly. Go ahead.
All right, they look the same. Okay, let me go ahead and um share my screen so I can share something real quick.
Okay.
Can you see my screen?
>> Not yet.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Okay. Can you see it now?
>> Yes.
>> All right. So, I'm gonna blow Okay, let me pull this up.
There we go. Slideshow. There we go. So, hopefully this is bigger. Oh, shoot.
Okay, there it is. Now, they're showcasing this that um Cadeshet Cadeshet is a Canaanite goddess. And as you see, what's on top of her head is that same uh round circle.
Can we say that um for argument sake that they actually got that from the Canaanites because we see her with that same uh circle and right here we see that this stale uh allows us to see how they worship this Canaanite goddess and we see what's on her head. So we both can come we both can make arguments but we both can look at the different states and we both can come to our own conclusions but from my understanding and what I see I believe that maybe they um got it from the Canaanites. Uh why not? Um I have another source. Let me I hope I have time.
Let me go to it real quick.
Um >> you got one minute and five seconds. I pause your time.
>> Thank you. Subnet.
Oh, hold on. Let me let me see where is that source at.
Okay, here we go.
So, right here it says 3,500 years ago, mutual cultural influences and political fluctuations marked the relationships between the ancient Egyptians and Canaan. So they're letting you know that there are mutual cultural influences from the Canaanites and the Egyptians, right? So they're letting you know that there's mutual um influences. Um it's also says that they have read that the Canaanites absorb technolog, logical and artistic innovations from Egypt and that the Egyptians in turn adopted some Canaanite deities and technologies. So right there again is showcasing that they both were pulling from each other.
So, if we're going to see influences from um the lot that has Egyptian influences, then of course we're going to see that. And then we're going to see that they're going to have Canaanite influences as well because it says right here that they absorbed their gods. One thing that they didn't say is their innovations, their artistic uh they didn't say that. They said that they absorbed their deities. That's what they said they got from the Canaanites was their deities. And we see that um from a stale. We see that from this stale right here that they are worshiping a Canaanite deity. So um I don't know what else.
>> Thank you. All right.
>> All right. Brother Jabari, you got one minute in your rebuttal for this. You got one minute.
>> I I'm not I'm not even sure if she's if she's listening to me anymore. So, um, she didn't answer the question. The the the stelle that she showed is from the new kingdom.
I showed you the header is all the way at the beginning of the old kingdom before the old kingdom. So, simply because you see a deity, a a a Syrian deity wearing a comedic headdress literally 2,000 years later, that doesn't say that the the influence goes in the other direction. I think that you're not understanding the time frames, Nefali.
And I want you to show this soneter. By the way, remember the temple of in the city whose name you could not mention.
This is me about to lead a tour for 65 people in that city in August.
Please understand, I I've studied this for all of my adult life.
what you are arguing doesn't is not supported by the data of your own sources. And so I'm I'm just I I'm I'm not sure what else to say at this point.
I'm struggling with trying to figure out how to answer in a way that you understand the time frames influence even terms. When it says reconstruction of diplomatic activities, they're not saying reconstruction of buildings.
Reconstructive of reconstruction of cultic and diplomatic activities, not buildings.
>> Nefali, you got the time to ask your last question to brother Jabari.
>> All right. Can I just use his time to rebuttal what he just said?
>> All right. You want to use your um You don't want to ask him a question?
>> No, I want to use that time to rebuttal what he said.
>> All right. Go ahead.
>> Thank you. I appreciate that. Um I completely understand what you're saying. I understand exactly what you're saying. You're very clear in what you're saying. Okay. I have no problem understanding what you're saying. I think you're having a problem with what I'm saying. So, let me make sure I clarify things a little bit for you. I'm not looking at the time frame. I'm looking at what is I don't know why the time frame is of any importance.
They're showcasing Hold on. You didn't allow me to finish.
>> I haven't said anything.
I'm listening to you. I am listening to you.
>> Okay. There are many uh Balot is said to have gone back to um 5,000 years, right?
Her worship.
The thing is is like this. We're seeing Egyptian influence. Do you have the time and stamp of when the Egyptians socalled built on that temple? Do you have the time for that?
No, you do not. We also don't have the information.
Do you want to respond to that? Do you want to respond?
Do you want to respond since you're being >> Are you asking Are you asking him the question? Because if you do, he get two minutes to answer.
>> The time frames are in your article that you put forward. You put the article forward.
>> Hold on.
>> They're saying that they don't know if that is even true.
>> That is not what that article says.
>> Okay. Okay. Well, go ahead and prove that. Let me go ahead and look at the article. Let me get time to pull the article up. One second.
Okay. Is this the um article right here?
I just want to make sure. I don't have it all. I just took a snippet of it.
>> Are you showing you're showing it? Um, I'm waiting on S to accept it.
>> Oh.
>> All right.
Okay. Can you see?
>> Yes.
>> Is this it right here?
>> Uh, let me just uh make sure you're looking at the same thing because you know that authors write more than one article, right? So, let me make sure that you're looking at the same one that I'm looking at. The one that that came from you.
It is called the role of the temple at bilat gbal as intermediary.
What page are you on? 116.
>> Mhm.
>> Let's see if I can uh sync it to yours.
>> Yes, that is it's the same article. It's the same article.
>> All right.
So right here it's saying that uh >> I was asking you to read from page 104 and 105. That's where we were talking.
>> Okay. So I don't have that page. Can you share it then?
>> Absolutely.
>> Thank you.
>> Okay. It starts here.
It ain't always easy to get these articles when you don't have when you're an independent scholar. I was an independent scholar until the middle of last year. I would have to look at articles and take copies and then reconstruct it. Now that I'm connected to a university, I could pull this down in 30 seconds. It's harder when you're doing it on your own. But here it is.
This is the section you started reading in, right? That I wanted you to start reading in. And then it goes into this section. Um, this is the part that talks about the reconstruction of the cultic and diplomatic activities of the Egyptians. And then this one describes um the the actual structure of the article down here.
>> Okay. But you're saying that there's time periods. You said it was you said I showcased a article with time periods.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. You said I displayed it. Um >> this is your article. You don't see the time periods.
>> Okay. Let me I'm just trying to make sure this is the page. I'm just trying to make sure that this is where we're going to be reading, right?
>> Guess where the time periods are.
>> All right. So, let me read it. All right. So it says the temple of the lady of biblo was the largest and most complex shrine in the canaanite city during the early bronze age. In this period the building underwent several transformations during the cave phase of biblo uh grosomoto contemporary with the Egyptians fourth and fifth dynasties.
The sanctuary the so-called hypoite hypo style temple was built over a previous temple. Okay so it looks like it was built over a previous temple.
Right. During the fourth and the fourth and fifth dynasties, correct? Is that what that's what we're getting from that?
>> Yes. The d when they say fourth and fifth dynasty, they're giving you a date, but you have to know the history to know that they're referring to a date.
>> Okay. So, what was your point of this date again?
>> No, you just said that the article has no dates in it. I said your article has dates.
>> This was not my article. This is what you pulled up. your No, Queen, this is your article.
>> No, I I misspoke. What I meant to say is this is what you shared. I thought you were talking about what I shared. Yes, this is my article, but the page that I shared Relax. I'm just saying the page that I shared didn't have any notes.
It's okay. Just go back to go back to what you were saying. Go back to your page. Go back to your page. Okay. Yes, it's funny. I get it. Go back to your page. All right. Now, it's letting us know that in the fourth and fifth dynasty, they re they built over what the Canaanites had already built. So, what they're saying is is that before the fourth and fifth dynasty, that there was actually something already built by the Canaanites and then the Egyptians built over it. So, that actually showcases >> that h >> where does it say that?
>> It says right here. It says the so-called hypo style temple was built over a previous temple. But does it say that the Canaanites built that temple?
>> It's why would the Egyptians overbuild over the the building clearly that was there before probably was nowhere near as extensive as to what the Canaanites I mean what the Egyptians could have built. It says right there that the Egyptians in the fourth and fifth dynasty overbuilt over their temple that they had established. I can say that because it's letting me know that there was a temple there. It doesn't say that the Egyptians built over a temple that they already built, >> right? But it doesn't it doesn't say it's a Canaanite temple either. You've you've you've put that in there.
>> It says that the Canaanite it says that it's the most complex shrine in the Canaanite city.
>> Yes, it is. But it doesn't >> And it doesn't say that it's an Egyptian temple.
>> The queen, you're you're not reading the article. Well, >> I'm reading it very well. It says right here, "The symbol of the lady of Biblo was the largest and most complex shrine in the Canaanite city." It's in the Canaanite city. I showcased several times how the Biblo, this goddess was the main Canaanite goddess. She is the main prominent Canaanite goddess. Why wouldn't they build their main goddess a temple? Why wouldn't they? Why do they need to their main goddess out all their out all their pantheon is very extensive. Why would they need someone to influence them on their main goddess?
And you're talking about all the way back in the 12th dynasty. That makes that's not that's illogical.
>> Guess why >> it makes sense. Hold on. The most logical thing here showcases that there was a temple there before that was probably very uh pre prehistoric.
probably wasn't any type of probably wasn't as on the levels of of the Egyptians. The Egyptian the Egyp the Egyptians came in the fourth and fifth dynasty and built over it and made it and made it more you know >> queen that isn't that is an assertion that you would have to back up >> and you're making an assertion as well.
We're both are we're both interpretating. Hold on. This is >> right. Hold on. Neali Nefali we heard you. You got to let Jabari respond.
Every time you speak, you cut him.
>> I'm simply reading what the article says. You're making an assertion. The article does say that it seems like this temple that you've been referring to all night, by the way, was built by Kmetic um workers. They can't prove it, but they said they believe that it could have been. And they say that it's built according to comedic dimensions, the entrances, the cultic um items. And then they say, "Yeah, it was built on top of an earlier temple." you are the one that is asserting that it was an earlier Canaanite temple. The article does not say that. So that what you would have to do if you are a scholar and I believe that you are ascribing to be one and you're working on it. You have to NOW BACK UP YOUR ASSERTION. You can't that's not how it's done.
If you did that in my class, you would get your paper would be failed because that you're not reading your source.
This is your source. You brought it up.
I didn't bring it to the to the back. I mean, this is like you bringing a weapon to a a fight and then you HAND IT TO ME.
I MEAN, IT'S LIKE WHAT do you you have to read your own source and understand it. And I swear I am saying this now. If Nefali says, "Jabari, I want to join your class." I will not mention it here on set. I will mention it nowhere.
>> How much time does he have? Because I want to make >> I'm done. You want >> me I want to go ahead and open up the floor right quick for the people.
>> Let me just say this to him.
>> All right. Say it to him. Say it to him.
>> If I was That's why I'm not in anyone's class because I I am an I am a person that Hold on. Hold on. Let me say this to you so you can understand my logic and my reasoning. I'm an independent think you're an independent researcher.
Let's just get that together. All right.
>> But but here's the deal. I've been an independent researcher as well. Being in a class doesn't mean that you have surrendered your thinking. Being in a class means that someone submits you to in to intellectual and scholastic rigor.
When I told you that I was up that I had three hours of sleep last night. You know what I was doing? Look at what I was doing.
>> Due to my independent thought, you said that you would fail me because I interpreted the data different from you.
I am a data analy.
>> All right. All right. Thank you.
All right, we are now opening up the floor and I will make this announcement again. You will not come in to teach. The teachers already spoke. They already taught. The only questions that I am allowing has to pertain to the topic. Now I know we all grown. We understand these rules.
Elder Quinat, do you have a question, brother?
>> Yes, I do. Uh I like to make a statement real quick on both. I think both people done a great job. Uh uh and they uh I guess end up being debate. I thought it was a discussion, but both people done a great job and uh what they was bringing out, you know. Um, Natal, you done great of of cuz you weren't expecting this. And Jabari, I guess you done great cuz you weren't expecting that also, you know. Uh, so I want to the question I have, I want to see who really has a silly town of understanding. See if they acknowledge this is really a silly town, >> right? And uh my question will start with Jabari first. Also, I didn't call Neptali, okay?
As this live was going on at all. All right, just want to put that out there.
So from my understanding from what Shark Utmost told me and what I heard Jabari says a few things >> throwing her under the bus, huh? You saying she called you?
>> She said you called.
>> No, I said okay.
>> You said you didn't call her. So I'm going to explain it. Let me explain it. Let me explain it. I called when we was discussing the title change >> and then you said, "Come in the uh come in the room and I couldn't get in the room.
All right. So, but I don't I don't know too much about this. So, she couldn't get information on me about it any damn way. All right.
So, let me uh that didn't have anything to do with the debate. You know what I I thought was a conversation. However, from Hey, Peace and black power family. Y already know what it is. I dropped the link in the chat. This debate is over. Come on over to the next debate. We already live right now. And um the link is in the chat.
The link is in the chat. Hit that link.
get on over here. And this is more of a scientific debate.
Um, this is a great one. Peace and black power. We out.
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