A CA Conservancy Wants Catalina Island's Deer Gone | Residents Say Nobody Asked Them

Added: 2026-05-24

[00:00:00]There is a plan to eliminate deer on Catalina Island and this plan has been approved by California government. Today we sit down with Ben Meyer who's a hunter in Catalina who's here to tell us why this plan is facing with a lawsuit and how the locals and different groups are fighting to keep the deer. We also speak with some Catalina Island residents to see what they are thinking.

[00:00:23]>> We just don't feel there's been a lot of science behind it. We all scream about science in this world. So use it. It's there. The technology is there to make an educated, informed decision.

[00:00:35]>> They are part of our community just as much as all the people that live here.

[00:00:39]They've been here for a 100red years. We love our island. We want it to thrive.

[00:00:44]Uh but we do not believe that it needs to have zero deer in order to do that.

[00:00:49]>> I'm welcome to California Insider.

[00:00:55]>> Ben, it's great to have you on. Welcome.

[00:00:57]>> Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.

[00:00:59]>> We want to talk to you about a phenomena that's happening in Catalina. There's some plans to to eradicate the deer.

[00:01:05]Yes.

[00:01:06]>> Catalina deer, which a lot of us who go there, who have been there, have seen the deer.

[00:01:10]>> Yeah.

[00:01:11]>> Can you tell us what's happening right now?

[00:01:13]>> It's been on the table for years as kind of a something the conserv Catalina Island Conservancy wanted to do is to restore the island kind of the pre-European man, I I guess. So, the deer are non-native to the island. So, it's always been on the back burner. Um, but they finally got permission in 2023.

[00:01:33]Um, or stepped forward and came out and said, "We're we're going to eradicate these deer," which created quite a firestorm both locally on the island and eventually kind of around the world.

[00:01:44]But, so there was a lot of blowback from that. So, it kind of they kind of had to shift plans a little bit. So then again this last August or so they came out that they were going to try to get this permit to eradicate the deer from the island. So so that's what kind of started this whole thing. And so they do want to eradicate all of the mule deer from the island. Not they don't want to leave 10 20 30 40 of them. They want zero deer out there. So so it's created quite a um controversy.

[00:02:18]>> How about the permit? Who's supposed to give them the permit? and are they going to get it?

[00:02:22]>> Uh, so the California Department of Fish and Wildlife, which oversees all wildlife in California, state agency, did issue the permit back in February.

[00:02:31]So they do have the permit to eradicate.

[00:02:34]Uh, there has been a lawsuit put forward by how.org, California Deer Association, Safari Club International, um, Coalition to Save the Catalina Deer, and California Bow Hunters, Bowman Association. So there is at this time some litigation set forward to stop this and hold Fish and Wildlife accountable because they kind of did an endound on the permit as far as regulations to get it. There's a anytime a state agency in California does a a project, they have to go through the California Environmental Quality Act. So it's it's a long process can be costly. It takes time consuming to prove the positives, negatives, all the things that affect what this project will do. And so Department of Wildlife CDFW came up with this a plan not probably not for Catalina, it feels like it was, but it's called a restoration management plan. So it supersedes going through the squa process and that's where we have an issue. Probably the biggest stumbling block for us is they didn't have to do that. They were just allowed kind of to sign the the document and say, "Hey, here's your permit to eradicate the deer with and it's a restoration management plan." So it just the the plan that they gave him just doesn't say it's all about killing the deer off. It's other projects that they'll do, but part of it is removing the deer from the island over time. So, >> so they were supposed to do the SEO study to find out if the deer has impact or come up with alternative >> correct. Yeah. Plants.

[00:04:17]>> They should. And you're talking, this is a major thing. You're eradicating what I consider a subspecies of deer. They've been there almost a hundred years. The first deer were put there in 1928. So, they're coming up on 100 years being there. So there has to be some consideration for their welfare. It's not their fault that they were there.

[00:04:34]Have they adapted to the island? Has the island adapted to them? Will there be unintended consequences of removing them? We don't know that because that data has not been put forward. We just don't feel there's been a lot of science behind it. biologist. When I went through college and and got my biology degree, it was about management, looking at the different aspects of what you were doing to manage whether it was flora and fauna, whatever where that was. But I really feel now that biologists are coming out of these universities and colleges with this mindset that if it's not native, it has to be destroyed, has to be gotten rid of no matter the consequences to it or the other alternatives that there could be to do that. So, I feel it should be looked at from all different facets to make sure we do the right thing cuz once they're dead and gone, they're not coming back. And that's that's wrong to me at this point. There are numerous Channel Islands that have had eradication already done and animals removed. Catalina is different. I mean, you have 4,000 people that live on the island and you have over a million visitors a year on the island. There's hikers and bikers and buses and people everywhere out there. So, it's a different island. And I I believe that these deer can coexist with the island because they're worried about their plants, their their native flora. Years ago, I mean, there was hundreds of goats and thousands of goats and pigs and cattle and bison and and horses, other animals that were also impacting. Now, we're down to just the deer herd, which is less than what they're saying it is in my opinion, and a few bison left over and that's it. But these plants are still there. They may not be flourishing in the manner that they would like, but they are still present on the island and that I know of.

[00:06:19]You know, we don't know. Maybe some are going extinct, but we would like to see the data on that. Hey, let us know. Show us with data and facts. Science. We all scream about science in this world. So, use it. It's there. The technology is there to make an educated, informed decision. And that's what I want to see.

[00:06:39]That's what how.org. That's what Safari Club, all these other organizations um want to see. And the people on the island, the the islanders, they don't want these deer gone either. It's part of the fabric of Catalina. It's part of the history out there. Once history's gone, it's over. So, I don't want to see that.

[00:06:59]>> Can you tell us about your experience there and the deer? How many deer are there right now?

[00:07:04]>> Um, as far as deer numbers go, they're saying there's anywhere from 1,800 to 2,000 deer on the island. I believe it's way less than half of that. I always have. I started actually guiding on Catalina in 1998 for another outfitter for three years and then that contract went away. So, uh, when the Catalina Conservancy wanted to start back up a hunting program, you do have to hunt the deer out there.

[00:07:28]There's just no way around that. There's no >> because they grow, right? There's no >> they're going to Yes. They're going to overpop populate. There's no predators.

[00:07:35]There's no disease. Um, and so they will flourish quite well. And then if they do that, the capacity for their ecosystem is is exceeded. So they're going to die of starvation. It's not pretty. So everybody, even the anti-hunting groups or groups that have they realize that we want to keep the deer, but we have to have a hunting program. It's the only tool we have. So So I started in '98 to 2000. I came back with a business partner in 2003.

[00:08:00]and so as wildlife west and so we would bring guided hunters to the island for about a two two and a half to 3month period. So we would take hunters out there and it was strictly to control the deer population. So we could harvest bucks and doese's if if so chosen by the the hunter. So we would on average between what Wildlife West did and then the locals could also hunt after we were done and sometimes before we would take about 220 deer a year off the island and and at one point there was too many deer on the island. I just remember it was just it was easy to hunt out there and over time especially the last year I hunted out there was 2024. our opportunities had really um lessened out there to where I knew there was an impact. It was harder for us to find the deer. We weren't changing our methods as to how we hunted and it it just the opportunities weren't there because there were less deer out there and that's what they wanted. When the Catalina Conservancy says that the hunting program does not work, that's not true. It's it's just not true that it was working. The deer numbers are done. You can ask any of the the locals who are out there who spend a lot of time out out on the interior of the island. They know it too and and we know it too cuz we're spending 3 months there. Our job is to find deer for guys and it was just harder to do. We just didn't have the opportunity. So I know that's that the hunting program has worked and it needs to work and it can and we would like if we could establish a deer population number and which we can do with technology analogies. The conservy's always done, their population model was done with a spotlight survey.

[00:09:43]So for someone who doesn't know, we would go out for three nights in a row and I did it with them a few times. So you have selected routes, you spotlight the deer, you see their eyes because they light up at night. Then we could get a a count of the number of deer that we'd see on these routes for three days in a row. And then they would take those numbers and put them in a computer model and then extrapolate what the population was per acre across the entire island.

[00:10:09]But parts of that island don't have a lot of deer and some parts do. And I just always felt that number was wrong.

[00:10:16]They'd come up, they go, "Hey, there's 3,000 deer on the island." I go, "Uh, okay." So what I would do is cut that number in half and I'd still subtract some and go, "This is what I feel the population is." And for years they ran with uh 3,000 deer on the island. And I tried to explain it. I go, there's no possible way with us taking a couple hundred deer out of that population over years, it would exploded beyond capacity for the island to carry because there'd be way more recruitment of fawns than we were taking out. So those numbers never made sense to me and they they still don't. The conservy's been offered uh from a company to bring drones out to the island, grid the island with the latest technology, and we'll find most of the deer out there because I've seen it. And if if you watch Killing Catalina, you'll see some example of that. And then we could set a baseline and go, hey, there's 500 deer on the island or there's a thousand deer on the island, whatever number that is. And then we can decide, hey, to keep a healthy deer herd, but not impact the island so negatively that or at least how you feel it's being impacted ne negatively, then we can adjust and do a hunting program to say, "Hey, this year we're going to take a 100 deer out, 300 deer out to maintain that population, then we could do that." That's what we want. And that would be the right scientific thing to do.

[00:11:38]>> How do the locals think about this?

[00:11:40]>> Uh, most are pretty upset. I'd say 95% of the locals do not want this to happen. It's like I said, it's part of the fabric of their history on the island is hunting's been there for a long time. When there were pigs and goats there hundreds of years ago, at least the goats were, but when William Wrigley bought the island, you know, he he brought animals out there for people to hunt and enjoy. There was not just the deer out there, there was the pigs, there was the goats, there was odd barbar sheep out there at one point. not a lot, but he he tried to make it an entertainment place for people. So, that has been with the locals forever. And that's essentially, I guess, what one of the parts I'm fighting for is I want the locals to get to keep those. And it's part of their history. They like seeing the deer in town. You know, some of the deer in town don't look as good as the ones on the interior because they're in there eating cat food, dog food, and lettuce, and those sort of things.

[00:12:36]>> Is it caused by the tourists that >> Yeah, that the tourists don't help. But when things green up out there and the and the island turns lush, those deer pretty much disappear out of town.

[00:12:47]You'll see a few around, but they want to be out there where they should be.

[00:12:51]Um, but there are times it gets, you know, gets too dry out there and they come in town. There's green feed there.

[00:12:56]So, so I'd say the locals, I know the locals want them. There's there's no doubt about that to me that and that's obvious with the coalition to save the Catalina deer and the support that they've received from around the world now and especially in California. It's been a it's been a kind of a refreshing thing to see that uh grassroots people organizations could come together where you know Safari Club International, California Deer Association which are pro- hunting organizations but also do a lot of conservation work um come together with the Catalina Island Humane Society and other groups to work together. people that would never hunt anywhere else or would or are not happy about hunting, they know it has to happen there and they've come together to fight this. So, >> how would they do this if they were to eradicate the deer and why don't they move the deer to somewhere else? The original proposal that they had in 2023 was to use helicopters. And when I met with with two of the conservancy people in January of 2023 and I came to Long Beach to meet with them and soon as I got in the room, I knew what they were going to do before they even said they were going to eradicate. I go, "You guys are going to eradicate the deer, aren't you?" And I said, they said, "Yes." And I they go, "You're going to have one more year to do your operation, then we're we're going to eradicate." And I said, "I assume you won't use aircraft to do this, helicopters, because they did it with the goats and the pigs." And that's really still stuck in the minds of the people out there because it's it just wasn't pretty. It's it's ugly.

[00:14:29]It's you're shooting from helicopters eradicating an animal. And they said, "No, they weren't going to do that because I said because social social media is here now and that's it's not going to be a good thing." But a few months into it, they contacted me and said, "Yeah, one of our plans is to use helicopters." So, there was a huge backlash to that back in 2023 and 2024 to where now they've agreed to do it with ground forces like uh professional hunters using technology and long range shooting and and just shooting them from the ground. They still intend on using helicopters, I believe, to find the deer and stuff, but they won't shoot from them. That is their current plan at this point with with eradicating the deer to remove the deer from Catalina and take them back to the mainland. They weren't born with or evolved with predators. Um so if you take those deer over and put them in the mainland somewhere that predators are going to get them. They relatively no diseases there diseases could get them. Cars doing 60 m hour are going to take them out because the island's mostly golf carts and there's vehicles out there but they're not doing 60 m hour.

[00:15:37]that option is not viable unless you put them in a controlled environment like a high fenced area where they could stay somewhere isolated from predators and that sort of thing. And as far as birth control, it's just that's not logical.

[00:15:50]It's just those shots have to be or the processes have to be readministered to them. So you got to recatch those animals and give them birth control or some they've talked about chemical sterilization and things and those are they're not viable. They're so expensive and they're not going to work. So, it's either they get to eradicate them and they're gone or we manage the deer that are there and keep them out there. So, >> Ben, you're a hunter, right?

[00:16:14]>> Correct. Yep.

[00:16:15]>> And you're advocating for this deer.

[00:16:17]>> Yeah.

[00:16:18]>> Can you tell us why?

[00:16:19]>> I like the deer better than I like most people.

[00:16:23]You grow to love that as part of it. I just know from all my experience that animals have to be managed. We've entered their world. We've upset that balance. So, we do need to manage them.

[00:16:34]Like I said, I love the mu deer. It's one of my favorite animals on the planet, but I feel it's necessary to hunt them to control them by hunting them, even on the mainland. It money that goes into hunting them through buying hunting licenses and tags, things goes back into conservation and conserving not just the mule deer or the elk, but all species of animals that benefit from habitat set aside, habitat rehabbed and made better. Um, so it's a it's a circle. Yeah. death is involved, but it also provides a lot of life. I feel well, I know it does for everything else involved. So, yeah, there's times sometimes I feel bad when you're just like, wow, that animal would still be here if it wasn't for me. But I know it's life, the life that was given will help something else down the road.

[00:17:25]So, I I know it's important and it has to be and it's proven that in the American model of conservation, hunting is the key component to that. It's what we have to do because we are stewards of land. We have to take care of them.

[00:17:36]>> How much does this generate for Catalina? Is there a lot of money that comes from the hunting?

[00:17:41]>> There is money that cuz I pay in a lease fee back to the conservancy that goes to them. We as our operations spend a lot of money on the island from fuel and groceries and food and entertainment, restaurants and that sort of thing. So, we do put back um it's not cheap to operate on Catalina. So, it's an expensive endeavor for anyone who's going to do it. But yes, there's money gener I I honestly think there could be more made out of it, more money generated just because it's so unique um to hunt out there. The reason we didn't charge more for our hunts, some people go, "Oh, you charge too much." Some people said, "You don't charge enough."

[00:18:22]But we had to put a lot of hunters through there to maintain that to keep that deer herd down. Our job really was to control deer numbers. And that's what the Cat the original Catalina Conservancy people that we set up the program with. They said, "This isn't about the money as much as is the service that you're providing to get people out here." And they originally back in the day, they wanted a quality hunting experience for people and to control the deer population.

[00:18:48]>> What's the difference between a quality hunting experience and a non-quality hunting experience?

[00:18:53]>> I'm all about the experience of a hunt and the memories that you create for someone. I could take a guy out to go wild pig hunting, for instance, and if you know the place to go, I could have them done in less than an hour and they're done and gone with their hunt.

[00:19:10]Some people like that. Some people want to get just the pig and off they go.

[00:19:14]Some people, a lot of people, I want to give them an experience. I want them to see the places I get to see, to enjoy everything that I enjoy. Um, I want to teach them about hunting and conservation and the things that we do and that I give them a full experience whether it's a guy who's hunted a hundred times or he's never hunted before or he's coming there he's hunted a lot and is, you know, his son or daughter is coming into the hunting world and he wants to expose that to them. So, I want to teach them the right correct way, the ethical way, the legal way to hunt. And so, that's what guiding is for me. It's um it's not about killing, it's experience. I've had a numerous guys that come to Catalina.

[00:20:03]Um I had a grandfather, he's been he actually started hunting out there before I ever did one. It was a different hunting program back in the 70s and 80s. And I looked at the table one night, he was there, his his son, his son-in-law, and four three or four of his grandkids were there with him. And I thought, what a cool thing to pass that down to your family. And I know that memory is a big deal for Chuck. Yeah. And I um some of that stuff, you know, it makes me emotional that that's gone or will be gone. So, I don't know why that hits me like that, but it does. So, it's kind of It's weird. But, >> you mentioned there's a lawsuit trying to stop this.

[00:20:49]>> Yeah.

[00:20:50]>> What's going to come next?

[00:20:52]>> I guess that'll be to the courts to decide. Uh, we're hoping that we have a new director of fishing of California Fish and Wildlife, and from what I've heard, she seems to listen a little better. Politics drives things. I think that has happened in the past with our fish and wildlife in in California. They at least need to sit back and look at things and go, "Hey, we need to reassess this. We gave you the permit." Yes. But there's been a lot of pressure to look at this and do a little more scientifically. And that's what I hope we accomplish. You know, I want it to get to that point. Whether it will or it won't, I don't know. But that's what we want to push for is is that. So, I would just like to see Fish Wild held accountable for issuing that permit.

[00:21:36]It's not the conservancy got the permit.

[00:21:38]That's no fault on their own. They put in for it. They receive that from fish and wildlife. But the buck stops with fish and wildlife to review this and do the right thing.

[00:21:47]>> You mentioned Avalon has banned this, right?

[00:21:50]>> Yes. They a couple years, I think it was right after this all started, city council voted to do some restriction where there was the plan to come into town to remove deer from town with nets and trapping them and remove them and euthanize them maybe in town, you know, under the trying to keep it as lowkey as possible because you don't want the general public seeing that. But the city put into place that no deer were to be removed from the city of Avalon proper.

[00:22:19]So that tells people that yes, the city of Avalan's not behind this, that the people spoke.

[00:22:26]>> And the conservancy is a private land, right?

[00:22:29]>> It is. It's their property.

[00:22:31]>> So they have the right to do what they want to do with it.

[00:22:33]>> Well, they do, but the deer aren't their property. The deer are property of the state of California. In order to hunt on Catalina, you have to have a hunting license and the deer proper deer tags and through the the proper channels to harvest deer out there. So they're owned by the taxpayer, not the conservancy.

[00:22:49]And so for fish and wildlife to just go go ahead kill them all, you're they're allowing the conservancy to kill our deer. And that's not right either. So, uh, Santa Rosa Island was eradicated, but that was owned by the National Park Service through years of the eminent domain, took that away from the Veil family. But the feds came in and did that because those animals were not controlled by the state. They were they were private animals to begin with and then the the National Park Service bought the island which they bought the animals. So they eradicated with no issues and there wasn't social media and it's a uninhabited island. Basically Catalina is different. Those are our deer and they don't have the right to kill those without some serious scientific justification. And one of the other points that I like to bring up and I thought about this years ago and especially when Santa Rosa was eradicated, chronic wasting disease is now in California. It's a disease that's in the Midwest. It gets into deer and elk and once that disease is in there, it messes with their it it's a folded it's you can get scientific. It's a it's a protein that messes up and they go kind of crazy.

[00:23:59]Once they show signs of that or have it, it cannot be gotten rid of. It kills the animal. It may take up to three years to incubate in these animals. And as of right now that we know of, Catalina is not exposed to that. California is. We found two cases a couple year two years ago. We don't know how many more of those are in there. It was brought in by irresponsible hunters, I believe, into the state of California because you're not if you go hunt in those other states, you're not supposed to bring animal parts back that contain brain matter or spinal fluid. And that obviously happened because we had chronic wasting disease in California.

[00:24:35]We don't know how that'll spread, when it'll spread, but these deer need to be kept because they're isolated from this.

[00:24:42]We may need those someday. That's where I feel fish and wildlife is really shortsighted right there in wanting to allow eradication of something that we may need someday in California.

[00:24:54]To what capacity, I don't know. But if you eliminate them, you don't have that option anymore. So that's that that's that's one of the biggest points also of not just yeah you're changing history you're removing the animal that has adapted obviously to Catalina but down the road we may need those animals with chronic wasting disease here now we reached out to California Fish and Wildlife Department to find out what they're saying about this. We also reached out to the proponents of the plan. We couldn't hear back from the proponents, but here's the statement that California Fish and Wildlife Department gave us. The California Department of Fish and Wildlife is responsible for reviewing and permitting projects under state law. In that role, the department has issued a restoration management permit to the Catalina Island Conservancy for one component of its operation protect Catalina Island project, which authorizes specific habitat restoration activities on Santa Catalina in accordance with applicable laws and permit conditions. The department's decision is based on a scientific and legal review of the application. State law allows an RMP only for projects that restore native plants, wildlife, or habitat and that would result in a substantial net benefit to native species or their habitats and ecosystems. Projects permitted under an RMP are proposed and carried out by the applicant, not by the Department of Fish and Wildlife. The permitted Catalina Island Conservancy activities are intended to support the recovery and long-term health of native and endemic California species, including by addressing impacts from invasive and non-native species. This RMP represents the department's final permitting decision for the project. The department remains committed to science-based transparent decision-making and to effective long-term solutions that support the health and resilience of native species and ecosystems and the well-being of the people and communities across California, including those connected to Santa Catalina Island.

[00:27:08]Now, we go to Wendy Hernandez, who's a local in Catalina Island, to see what she's thinking, what the community is saying about this. you are part of the community of Catalina and you guys have been uh concerned about this. Can you tell us what's going on?

[00:27:23]>> Yeah, I grew up here on the island. So, I've been here most of my life. Uh raised my children here. My grandchildren are now being raised here.

[00:27:31]Um so, I am a community advocate, always have been. Uh and I am one of the founding members of the coalition to save the Catalina Island deer. So, we have been working hard for a little over three years now uh trying to stop the Catalina Island Conservy's efforts um to eradicate all of the mu deer here on the island. They first applied for scientific collection permit with the California Department of Fish and Wildlife. Uh we did get that permit denied the first time around. Um and the last one was withdrawn. So this time they've kind of gone around a corner and uh lobbyed for a new permit uh which is a restoration management permit which allows them to bypass SQA which we feel is very important in a project that's this large in scope um and has irreversible effects on this island if it is to be accomplished.

[00:28:32]What does the deer mean for you guys?

[00:28:34]And and why are you guys taking this fight? You're putting a lot of resources into this, right?

[00:28:39]>> Yes. Yes. I mean, of course. I mean, I think a lot of people try to look at this like it's an emotional issue or like we're just animal rights activists, that we just don't want the deer to be killed, which of course that is part of our efforts. We don't want to see them slaughtered and left to rot on the ground, which is uh their plan to do.

[00:29:00]But we also they are part of our community just as much as all the people that live here. Uh they've been here for a hundred years. They are not indigenous. So that is the conservy's concern. Uh we do have concern about the biodiversity of our island. We love our island. We want it to thrive. Uh but we do not believe that it needs to have zero deer in order to do that. Um, so we are fighting this for so many reasons um, for our community, for people that don't have a voice uh, here in this community because uh, if you're not aware, we are run pretty much and owned by the Santa Catalina Island Company, which also is basically the same as the conservancy. So there's a lot of people over here that are not able to speak out um, because they either work for them or they rent from them. So for us, it's it's a battle on many fronts. It's finally having our voices heard. It's demanding um public inclusion in a decision of this magnitude. It's demanding transparency, honesty, and that's all we're asking for. So right now, we're moving ahead trying to get the California Fish and Wildlife to redetermine that they would have to go through SQUA. They did uh approve their permit um the restoration management permit uh but we currently have a lawsuit in the courts um asking them to reconsider that decision.

[00:30:28]>> And how long does this lawsuit take?

[00:30:30]What's the process like?

[00:30:33]>> So our first court date is June 11th. Um to be honest, you know, I'm just a mother, a grandmother. I am not uh in any way, shape, or form uh I did not sign up for this. Let's put it that way.

[00:30:46]I went to a little meeting three years ago thinking that we could cause a little noise and get them to reconsider.

[00:30:53]We never once imagined that we would be on podcasts such as yours or on the front page of Epoch Times or on ABC News or any of this. Um, we never imagined we'd be working closely with Janice Hans, supervisor Los Angeles County, or meeting with senators and assemblymen. I mean, this was not what we were prepared for. So, I do not, frankly, know what this lawsuit looks like, but we are working with some powerful allies. This lawsuit has been filed um by the coalition to Save the Catalina Island Deer. Um, also our partners in this lawsuit are Safari Club International, California Rifle and Pistol Association, California Bowman's Association, Hal for Wildlife, and um, also the California Deer Association. So, we have some very powerful allies supporting us for the last 2 years or so, um, which has really brought this up front and to this point of this lawsuit. So, we will see where it goes. I mean, I imagine they could throw it out of court on June 11th or they could proceed and that's what we're waiting for.

[00:32:03]>> And what are you guys looking for?

[00:32:05]What's the ideal outcome for you guys?

[00:32:07]>> Right now, we would like a pause to this plan. They plan on um proceeding uh with the killing starting I believe in September of this year. what that is going to look like. We are not really certain because they don't really give enough uh information for us to feel comfortable with what they're doing.

[00:32:27]Their original plan was to start shooting from helicopters to kill all of the deer. Uh now they're just going to drop nets and torture them in that way and then shoot them on the ground and and leave their bodies on the ground to rot. So what we are asking for every political leader that we've met with and also in our lawsuit, we are asking for a pause to this plan until the proper SQUA environmental procedures have gone through so that we know how this is going to impact our island, our community, our visitors, our wildlife.

[00:33:00]Um they also have in this plan uh part of their plan is to spray pesticides from helicopters to kill the weeds. that is indiscriminate and we are a watershed community. Um so it's very concerning for all of us. So there's many things behind this fight. Uh not just you know we just don't want the deer to be killed. There's a lot of big issues involving this that concerns our health, well-being, and our tourist economy.

[00:33:27]Frankly, there's a lot of people that say they will never come back here if this happens.

[00:33:32]>> What does this mean for you as somebody that has grown up in Catalina?

[00:33:37]For me, I originally got involved because I am actually a survivor of gun violence. Uh when I was three, my dad uh held me hostage in our home and got shot by a SWAT team. So, the thought of them raining down bullets from helicopters um was of deep concern to me. Um, so that was originally my big push to get involved in this was I was I have two granddaughters that are now growing up here and there was no way I was going to allow that to happen and have their lives distorted like mine was forever. Um, that's something that you never forget when you witness something like that. So that is my main priority.

[00:34:21]Um, my family lives here. My granddaughters love to go see the deer.

[00:34:25]Uh the visitors love to go see the deer.

[00:34:28]They come right up to you. Uh they're very friendly. They're beautiful creatures. They have done nothing to harm anybody. And we just don't believe that the science is there that proves that zero deer is the only answer. Um their own CEO of the conservancy.

[00:34:44]Actually, we have them on tape at city council meeting uh declaring that 500 deer could coexist on this island without hurting the biodiversity of the island. So, and then all of a sudden it went to zero and nothing has changed.

[00:34:59]So, we're questioning their claims that zero dear, you know, we're we're fighting for honesty, transparency, and what is right. And we don't think that an entire um herd of deer needs to be slaughtered um just to retain the island's biodiversity. We don't think that's necessary. So, you know, we're fighting for what's right and that's the basis of what I stand on.

[00:35:30]>> From what you're gathering, there is definitely a reason that the conservancy wants to do that. Can you tell us what are they telling you guys?

[00:35:40]>> So, they actually haven't been open to really having a a formal meeting with us. Uh they are not willing to compromise. Um, but according to them, if they do not kill every deer on this island, our island will not thrive. Um, which is contrary to the facts because this island used to be inhabited by cattle. We used to have sheep, goats, pigs, and they got rid of all of those.

[00:36:08]This island used to be kind of barren and now it's just thriving and the deer have been here while it's thriving after all of those animals have been removed.

[00:36:18]Um, they also claim that there's so many deer and they can't keep the number down and the hunting program is a failure.

[00:36:24]They have made that hunting program a failure, frankly, because they don't want to run it. And they do not know an actual count of how many deer there are on the island because the last count they did was in 2021 I believe. And that was done with the spotlight method. Uh which is not the most accurate method to use. It's basically what it sounds like.

[00:36:45]They drive down a road with the spotlight. They look for the eyes of the deer and then they multiply that by how many miles are on the island and come up with a number. We offered to do a drone count, a thermal drone count for them free of charge so that we could get an accurate number of deer and they refused.

[00:37:03]So the problems that we have with their claims, we are all for having our island thrive and if they can prove to us that the deer are causing such a great harm to our island, we would be happy to have a discussion with them about other alternatives. But they don't have that evidence. And if they did, they would have gotten their scientific collection permit approved.

[00:37:26]>> Wendy Hernandez from Catalina Island. I hope that everything gets resolved.

[00:37:31]>> Thank you so much for your time. We really appreciate you.

[00:37:34]>> What do you think about this story and the deer in Catalina? Make sure to tell us in the comments. You can always email me at siamakalider.com or comment. We read all of your emails and comments. I'm Sam Korami. This is California. We'll see you next time.