Episode 72 - Post RG Reflection: Iga Swiatek Struggles, Upsets, Chaos

[00:00:00]Can you sing a little tune of that song?

[00:00:15]>> Hello everyone.

[00:00:16]Welcome to episode 72 of the Egan and Carlos Tennis Show. I realize we haven't done a lot of a lot of these in a while and that is because Carlos Alcaraz has been injured. Since the end of Monte Carlo start of Barcelona, he's been sidelined with a wrist issue.

[00:00:31]And otherwise we would have been doing episodes for Madrid and Rome and you know, and previewing him at RG. The man would have been going for his third Roland Garros title. You know, it would have been quite something Carlos, but instead we have completed Roland Garros without Carlos Alcaraz.

[00:00:49]Yannick Sinner lost earlier in the tournament, which we'll get to. Novak Djokovic also lost earlier in the tournament. So what did that do? That made Alexander Zverev the favorite for his first major title, which he didn't happen to get. And so we'll talk about that towards the end of the show, but before that, yeah, what are your thoughts on kind of everything and Carlos obviously isn't going to be back until the US hard court swing.

[00:01:12]>> Yeah, I'm Ansh. How are you doing, my friend? I mean, we'd like to be bearer bearer of better news. That's not the case in here, but regarding what happened in tennis lately, uh specifically male tennis, it's true that we kind of embraced chaos at this during the last four nights, you know, during the last Roland Garros.

[00:01:32]And once we had embraced chaos, one man one man emerged, you know, the best of the mere mortals cuz Sinner and Alcaraz are legends, but Sasha Zverev right now is the best of the mere mortals. A guy who has been holding up very well within top five, within the top 10 for the last two, three years, whereas peers such as Medvedev or Tsitsipas haven't had haven't been able to, you know, keep holding up and don't be thrown away due to all the changes in the ATP to, you know, do all the power hitters that we have that are younger than them.

[00:02:16]Fonseca, Mensik, Khachanov, so on, so on.

[00:02:20]Now, Medvedev and Tsitsipas are way more inconsistent. They are out of the top five out of the top out of the top 10, but you have Sascha Zverev who has been there, you know, riding the wave until he had an opening.

[00:02:34]He had his opening. He seized his chance. Very well done.

[00:02:39]He fought and beat some of his demons, but there's probably plenty of more work to be done, but that's, you know, that's a story to be told soon when he faces Sinner and Alcaraz again in order to win a Grand Slam, you have to beat seven opponents. You have no control which opponent you're going to choose. You only have control of what you can do, handle mentally, which was Zverev's biggest problem.

[00:03:06]And he completed the task, you know, as well as he could do. So, first Grand Slam for him. I think he has always been a legitimate a legitimate contender a legitimate Grand Slam winner.

[00:03:18]I felt doing the throughout the second week with throughout the second week, I felt that some players were still not ready yet not ready to win a Grand Slam.

[00:03:30]They didn't. I always felt like Sascha Zverev was ready to win a Grand Slam.

[00:03:33]Probably was one of the best players, if not the best players to, you know, not hold a Grand Slam yet.

[00:03:39]He was ready. He seized his opportunity.

[00:03:42]And the chaotic Roland Garros we had became, you know, a first and a first for a guy that probably deserved it for a long time.

[00:03:53]>> Yeah.

[00:03:54]Coming in, there was a big story. It was just, you know, how would he handled how would he handle his opportunity, you know, especially after the Sinner loss, which I think uh is still to me, if you're going to ask me, what was the most shocking thing at Roland Garros this year on the men's side?

[00:04:10]100% Sinner in the second round. Coming in, he was the bigger favorite than a lot of them Rafael Nadal years at Roland Garros, right? Like, I think if you just looked at odds and predictions and most people's predictions and analysts and pundits, the guy had won five Masters 1000s in a row.

[00:04:29]You know, obviously Carlos wasn't there in Madrid and Rome, but he beat him in the Monte Carlo final. He'd been on this great run since the start of Indian Wells. This was the only big title that he hadn't won.

[00:04:39]He obviously had the scar tissue from last year's final, but nonetheless, you know, with Carlos out, he was just such a big favorite, such a massive favorite, you couldn't possibly imagine.

[00:04:47]You know, and then we see him being overcome by the heat, losing from such a deficit that, you know, at some point I thought, is this the biggest upset ever?

[00:04:55]Not necessarily bigger than Robin Söderling beating Nadal at 2009 Roland Garros, you know, that was similar. It was similar.

[00:05:05]Some to see anybody for that matter not win with the score that he had, you know, 6-3, 6-2, 5-1.

[00:05:11]That he couldn't win four more points. I mean, to me, I still am so perplexed.

[00:05:16]I'm so still haven't quite, you know, because we we obviously the media spoke to him afterwards and we know that he has a history of struggling in the heat and obviously it was really hot and he did his body just completely collapsed, gave up on him. There's been talks about, oh, should he have played the schedule that he did? But honestly, it's like had he won had he won that match, he would have been just fine and probably cruised to this title.

[00:05:36]But, if we're being honest. But, you know, the fact that he didn't and the fact that Juan Manuel Cerúndolo was able to capitalize on it and he has the kind of game style because he gets so many balls back and because he's just consistent and he has the moon balls, he has the drop shots.

[00:05:51]He kept Sinner.

[00:05:53]He forced Sinner to really work and you know, it was it was tough for Sinner to even win one more game after that. So, for me that was honestly even though you know, at that time it seemed like it would be better for the tournament overall if there was a seismic upset like this just because it would be something different, a mix of to see what would happen, kind of a trial test to see what would happen in a major without Sinner and Carlos.

[00:06:16]So, from that standpoint, but it was sad to watch. It was very hard to watch a guy not being able to move and be so depleted and it just be so exposed that there was nothing he could do, right?

[00:06:26]Like there was no roof like there was in Australia or there was no there was no way he just had to he had to finish the match and it was it was very brutal. But you know, eventually that happened and then you know, we had the great Fonseca-Djokovic match that's still probably the best match of the tournament. If you were to say, I think that was the device the best match ever even though Djokovic lost from two sets to love up.

[00:06:49]Nonetheless, you know, level wise and everything you could have expected from Novak and just how well Fonseca played played on the big points. It was it was an amazing match, but that meant that now you know, you're looking at Casper Ruud and Zverev. Those were the two people you were looking at and they're in the same section. So, you know, once once Ruud was out as well, you know, I already I already thought okay, Zverev is the favorite after after Djokovic.

[00:07:13]But then you know, when Ruud lost now it was like okay, this is the biggest test for Sasha. How would he handle this?

[00:07:20]And then you know, then you have the inexperience of Khachanov in the quarterfinals. A great great run by the way from him since the start of the clay court season. Like what a promising talent you guys have now in Spain. You know, another Rafa, right? And so, but you know, but you know, you see the way obviously, you know, you see that he was this was his first quarterfinal. It was a a ask for him to you know, keep continuing that momentum against Zverev and he he was up a break in the first set, but he still you know, it's Zverev just had that experience gap over all these players and he was so efficient to get in getting to the final, but then >> Absolutely.

[00:07:54]>> and you know, I don't know, we saw the nerves manifest for Zverev in the final.

[00:07:57]We saw that it was not a very high quality match. It was very tense, very tight. A lot of moments, particularly end of fourth, but uh you know, middle of the second to the fourth, like we saw the demons resurface. We saw the doubts. We saw We saw why you know, he hasn't been able to get over the hump.

[00:08:14]But he managed to do it and that's all that matters really at the end of the day, right? All that matters is that you are the winner at the end. It doesn't matter how you do it. It doesn't matter how it looks.

[00:08:22]You know, you can only play whoever's in front of you.

[00:08:25]Yes, he was helped quite a lot by the draw. You know, yes, he did win seven matches without facing a top 10 opponent. He can't control any of that.

[00:08:32]The fact of the matter is that now he's a major champion.

[00:08:35]And for many people that's going to be uncomfortable just given you know, given the history of charges against him, you know, in 2021 and 2023 and 2024.

[00:08:46]We can only go by the facts that we know in that case and you know, then it's up to the public really. It's up to the fans to decide you know, what they value more.

[00:08:57]And from this from this standpoint, you know, um it uh that's why it's been tough for many people to celebrate the win, I would say. You know, in the same way.

[00:09:08]But for him, for his resume, for his uh you know, for him to actually get this done is a is a massive deal in terms of you know, being a major champion and not being a major champion is still a it's a huge legacy defining moment because I did not win it.

[00:09:26]Uh you know, it's he might never do it.

[00:09:29]Like if he doesn't win this, it was kind of now or never for for Zverev. That's let's be real.

[00:09:33]So the fact that he did it.

[00:09:36]>> And the way the final was unfolding, imagine if Sasha loses this that fifth set, you know, you would have said this is the biggest how we say it in Spanish, pecho frío.

[00:09:49]You know what that means?

[00:09:51]Like your chest goes absolutely cold, frozen, you know?

[00:09:57]>> And in Cobolli's words, you [ __ ] your pants.

[00:10:00]>> Oh, yeah, yeah, for sure, for sure, but >> [laughter] >> that's quite literal that the literal term, but Sasha goes down as someone that even if with all his resume, you would have said this is the best player without a slam in the history [clears throat] of tennis. But then you would have said, but did this guy really deserve a slam?

[00:10:21]Even if when he had the chance to beat a an inexperienced first-timer like Cobolli, who in my eyes wasn't ready to win a Grand Slam yet, who was also aided by the draw, cuz we talk about the the the bottom part of the draw, but the the top part, I mean, you you wouldn't you couldn't have asked for a better path if you are Flavio Cobolli. Even though for me he's a legitimate outsider, like especially on clay, he's going to be top 10, he deserves I mean, for me he's going to he's going to be nearing like top five contenders on clay at some point in his career, but I mean, for to me he wasn't ready yet to win a Grand Slam, Flavio.

[00:11:03]And that manifested himself in on the finals. And you you touched on a lot of really good points that we could dissect and we could play have plenty of words about many of them, but I also want to as you said, you know, about Sasha's uh heroics, so to say.

[00:11:22]First thing, why did Sasha Zverev win Roland Garros?

[00:11:28]Cuz in my opinion, in a Roland Garros that was defined by the heat, by the physical struggles, by so many players, you know, having to drag through five setters, long matches, he was the fittest of them all.

[00:11:44]The fittest of the pack. The most efficient guy on this tournament was Zverev.

[00:11:50]He could have lost the first set against Hurkacz, but he didn't. He used his experience.

[00:11:56]>> Yessper de Jong, Yessper de Jong, he could have lost that too.

[00:12:00]>> Menshik, he could have lost that too.

[00:12:02]>> Menshik had plenty of break points in the first set, but he didn't play the break points well, cuz he hadn't had the experience yet of having break points on a Grand Slam in a Grand Slam semi-final.

[00:12:13]Zverev has had that experience. Zverev was always on the other end. He was the guy that was facing the guys that had more experience than him, barring that final against Dominic Thiem.

[00:12:26]You know, it was a first first time for both of them. Thiem was a little bit older. You can It was a tough one, but you can kind of excuse Sascha of losing that one. But then he always had the generational players in front of him. Now he was the the leader.

[00:12:43]All the lights were on him. And he held his ground very well, and you have to give him that credit.

[00:12:52]>> Yeah.

[00:12:52]>> And he he was the fittest and the most efficient guy, and because we are now so used to seeing generational players, Big Three, and now seeing Sinner and Alcaraz cruise through another Grand Slam title title without feeling the nerves, we think that someone feeling the nerves on a Grand Slam final is a bad sign. We have a plenty of finals where many first-timers have felt the nerves, but we have had a golden generation, probably the best years in tennis history in front of us, and we don't even remember what it's like to have a Gaston Gaudio-like final, like the one he had against Guillermo Coria in Roland Garros more than 20 years ago. We are not used to have a a Thomas Johansson-like winner, a one-and-done, you know, and Albert Costa. We are not used to it. Even Marin Cilic had to beat Federer on his way to a tournament that shocked the world, you know, and that >> Yeah.

[00:13:48]>> posed many questions at the time. Then we With time, we learned that, okay, the victory was still there to take over, you know.

[00:13:56]So, you know, you have to give credits on and I'm going to, you know, continue everything that you've said, and I'm going to go to the other part, the more the the darker part of what you have you were telling about.

[00:14:10]There are so many elements of this Zverev story story that are so inspiring that it sucks that we have to talk about something that makes me feel that he shouldn't be a flag-bearer for tennis, that he's not a good ambassador for my sport, that he shouldn't be someone that you should look upon, that you should draw inspiration in because his story with diabetes, winning with diabetes type 1, that is inspira- inspirational. That is something that >> First player to do that ever, right? So.

[00:14:42]>> That is That is amazing, man. And that is something that lots of kids could look up to Zverev and say, I have diabetes, but I can win a Roland Garros title at one point in my life. That is inspiring, but then they will also have to learn that two different women at one point in their lives were feeling so badly that they had to, you know, go and make public allegations again- against him. That Zverev was not convicted, so because he's not convicted, we have to cover what he's done, and we have to talk about his victory cuz and he has the right to play every single tournament and to win and to cement his legacy.

[00:15:24]That is not something we are not here to judge because others did on court and he's not guilty.

[00:15:30]So, we have to talk about this. Okay, but then I am also free to believe that with everything I've read, everything I've heard, the you can say evidence evidences or not, but with the facts that were stated at one point, I also have the freedom to believe that Sasha is not a good role model for tennis and that is someone that has had a turbulent and you know, not very encouraging past.

[00:16:02]It's it's tough to talk about this because he's not convicted as I say and he's have he hasn't been proven guilty, but he hasn't been proven innocent either. So, it's a tough one. It's a tough one to cover.

[00:16:13]>> Yeah.

[00:16:13]>> And so, my opinion, we should discuss this. We should highlight his heroics, but we should also highlight what has happened throughout his career and why if you have an opinion that this is not a guy we should celebrate, that is a completely valid opinion because of all the facts that we were at one point you know, presented with. And that is something that we have to highlight as well as the other inspirational parts of his story. In my opinion, that is my opinion. Everyone is entitled to his or hers and also well I mean that that is the thing. That that's why a public uh debate about his his figure I think is good and healthy and we have to highlight it now that this is the first time he's won a Grand Slam. Of course, maybe when he wins his fourth Grand Slam everyone will have heard about Zverev's story, but now that many people are hearing about him and are discovering about Sasha and many people that are not hardcore fans of tennis and are not big followers of of tennis, will have some news presented to them and say, "Oh, did this guy really did this?"

[00:17:25]That's why we have to cover this. When he wins a a fourth Grand Slam, if he does, this is story will be a bigger part of his past and we will not have the need to talk about this, but now I feel like we have the need to talk about this and to discuss this and put it there so everyone has his own her own opinion about about session.

[00:17:43]>> Yeah. Pretty well said because it's nuanced, there's a lot of layers to it.

[00:17:47]It's complicated. You know, we should say that in 2024, you know, he there was an off-court settlement, you know, that he was then settled off court and obviously that no charges pressed against him, but at the same time there was enough evidence there for it to be settled off court. So, it was, you know, not he wasn't innocent, but he wasn't guilty either. And so, it's up to the public to really decide.

[00:18:08]Uh and you know, uh there was no ATP policy in place for domestic violence as well. And so, you know, the first set of charges you just have to believe you have the right to believe or not believe what you read.

[00:18:22]>> different one cuz cuz there there is no court involved there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:26]>> Um but all you have is articles and you have evidence from those articles, screenshots, texts, whatever and it's up to you to decide, you know, is this something that cuz everybody has their vices.

[00:18:36]Everybody has what's, you know, what they deem as like, you know, and then you so you >> We are no no saints. None of us are saints. Yeah.

[00:18:44]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:44]>> To judge. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:18:46]>> I agree. I agree.

[00:18:47]>> I can give my opinion on it, but it honestly doesn't matter. It's not about my opinion. It's about We can just give facts. We are we are journalists, analysts of the game. Our job is to cover him I in a way that's comprehensive, right?

[00:18:59]I I don't want to be one of those people that's like, "Oh, we're not going to cover him."

[00:19:03]>> I don't feel like that's the proper way to to go. I agree with you. I agree with you.

[00:19:07]>> for me like if he's winning a major and he's, you know, one of of best players in the world, I'm going to talk about his tennis on the court. Like for me that is um um >> That is that is important and I'm going to add this as a as a context.

[00:19:19]So then, you know, then it gives a complete picture, which I think we've done. So we can >> Exactly. We can move on.

[00:19:24]>> you know, we'll we'll see uh what what the future holds for Zverev uh on court and um And yeah, now we go to the grass court season, but you know, it'll be interesting to see if he's unlocked something or maybe if you know, if if Carlos and Yanak come back, if we we just see, you know, kind of more of what we have what we saw before, which is still, you know, a very good top five player, but not someone who's at their level uh in terms of winning big titles.

[00:19:50]Uh but nonetheless, he did what he had to do and he uh you know, took years and years and years of coming close and he had to be very resilient and he he got it done. So he deserves credit for that.

[00:20:01]Uh and uh and and yeah, as far as the rest of the tournament goes, I thought there was so many physical matches. I thought you know, there was so much there was so many matches that went, you know, four, five, six hours. I feel like we really peaked from sort of second round to fourth round. And then, you know, once uh once once the fourth round matches, you know, with Arnaldi and Tiafoe and, you know, um Ruud and Fonseca and you know, you know, you know, other other matches were decided. Berrettini, Comesana, like these kind of matches that were four, five, six hours where these guys were it was a mixture of nerves and tightness, but also just brutal physicality and high quality at times.

[00:20:39]You know, these matches, I was thinking about it uh and I wanted to ask you because Australian Open, we went through the first 12 days of the tournament on the men's and the women's side. And it was just going like chalk, right? The seeds were coming through. The seeds were winning the third round, fourth round comfortably, straight sets a lot of the times. And every day we were like these are great matches on paper, but none of them were actually delivering in terms of >> Delivering, yeah.

[00:21:02]>> you know, drama and extended quality and, you know, five setters. We weren't having any of that. We were just having the favorites for grass.

[00:21:08]But then the last four tournaments, the last four days of the tournament were so good.

[00:21:12]>> Yes.

[00:21:13]>> That all of a sudden you don't remember that the first 12 were kind of boring.

[00:21:16]>> Yes.

[00:21:16]>> Here, it's kind of you know, it's kind of like we had we had you know, a really really jam-packed second round and fourth round, but then towards the end it kind of died down a little bit. And then you know, obviously we had some drama in the final where you know, it wasn't it wasn't nearly the same level of quality as what we had last year at RG. Nor was it expected to be.

[00:21:35]So we still had some of some of the drama in the men's final. But as far as like the quarterfinals onwards goes till the end of the tournament, you know, we were we were lacking here.

[00:21:43]Because we also didn't get to see for instance our naughty Berrettini play out. We also I don't know if Kabuli didn't even play a semi-final, right? So he not only did he lack experience, he's never been in a major semi-final let alone a major final. So just if you put everything into context, it's almost like I almost rather would have like I think the public would almost rather remember Australia because they remember the semis and finals and that's what they walk home with.

[00:22:08]Whereas maybe the really die-hard fan will remember these epics like like we do and because we lived through them and we aged through them, right?

[00:22:16]We aged 10 years in those five days.

[00:22:18]>> [laughter] >> I think it's an interesting topic.

[00:22:22]>> Man, that is the the there's a good question about that, you know, what's best, what's worse. Thing is tennis is so unforgiving, you know, cuz we'll probably look back in 20 30 years time and we'll probably have a look at the finals, quarterfinals, and semi-finals cuz that those are the things that pop up first in Wikipedia or whatever site.

[00:22:48]And all the other stories that went down in the first week of the tournament will be kept in a shelf that is only reserved to die and hardcore tennis fans.

[00:22:59]And that doesn't mean that Roland Garros this Roland Garros was less exciting than the past Australian Open.

[00:23:09]I mean, the the ideal thing is to have them both combined, right? A jam-packed first week of action with so many thrillers and so many epics that we will remember. And then also that quality holding up for the semifinals and the finals, but perfection doesn't exist, you know? So, I mean, we've been spoiled in a couple of different ways. Australia was very boring until the quarterfinals. We had a very good Musetti-Machac match, but not many people will remember that. And that is the thing that sucks, because also here in Roland Garros, we had an amazing Tiafoe-Arnaldi. I remember Landaluce-Cerundolo. We were even live streaming that 6 hours. It was [ __ ] crazy. No one will remember that one as well.

[00:23:49]>> Yeah.

[00:23:49]>> So, so we'll we'll we'll look back and the big picture will be Sascha Zverev winning his maiden first grand maiden and first grand slam.

[00:23:57]And we'll be thinking about his path and his path is not really full of many classics. So, it kind of sucks. I mean, if you ask me, I think it's what happened in Australia, what transpired in Australia is it's more historic, but it's also more historic, because we have probably one of the best days tennis has ever had, you know, that Friday for us it was like from midnight to 3:00 p.m., you know? That was that was 10 hours of the highest quality top-notch tennis, the best tennis you can even imagine produced. Maybe not in the first semifinals with Carlos and Sascha, but that also had like top-notch drama. And then the second semifinal, what Djokovic did, it was I mean, you you can even put it into words at some point. So, because of the status of the players and because of the you know, the aura of these players, you will remember them more. But the first week here in Roland Garros, I was thinking and I did say on Twitter, if the second week holds up, it's going to be one of the best Grand Slams in tennis history. The thing is, the second week didn't hold up. So, that's the shitty part about it.

[00:25:09]>> Yeah, for sure.

[00:25:11]Well, you know, one thing is that, you know, on the women's side as well, we didn't have >> Yeah.

[00:25:19]>> We did have this core group of players, you know, from Iga and Aryna and Elena and Coco, and they've been very, very consistent. They've been I call them the core four for a reason, because they are to me the four defining players of the last three, four years.

[00:25:33]Um and they all had shock losses, right?

[00:25:36]You had Sabalenka losing from such a commanding winning position.

[00:25:40]You know, something that's happened to her before in terms of the demons resurfacing, you know, in major semis and finals. It generally does not happen in the major quarterfinals.

[00:25:48]But, we saw it happen and we saw her lose 10 games in a row. She kind of lost her head.

[00:25:52]And it was >> Full meltdown.

[00:25:54]>> It was a one of the most spectacular the bizarre collapses I've seen from from her. Just the extent of how long it was and just how quickly it got away from her.

[00:26:04]Uh complete self-destruction, I would say.

[00:26:06]Uh and then, you know, and then we had Coco losing in the third round, which to me was always a tough draw against Potapova, and she was one of the more informed players. So, that you kind of look at and you say, okay, it was a close match. You know, normally she wins matches like that, but okay, she didn't do it this time and she had the pressure of defending. And you say, okay, so for me, that loss was probably the least egregious of the four.

[00:26:27]>> I agree with you.

[00:26:28]>> And then you had Rybakina, you know, lose in a really poor third set tiebreak. Like, I think that's what will sting is just that she did all that work to get back in the third set. She wasn't feeling great. It was a very hot day.

[00:26:38]You know, she she tends to struggle sometimes with in those kind of conditions.

[00:26:42]And she was playing an inspired Ukrainian opponent, but still someone you you definitely expect her to beat with her form. Right? And so, and the fact that she wasn't able to that she She such a poor tiebreak, that she lost you know, I think like eight unforced errors in those 14 points in the in the in the third set tie break. That that wasn't great and it was a it was a surprising loss considering she was the Australian Open champion.

[00:27:03]She was number one in the race going in.

[00:27:05]So, for me I still felt like, you know, while clay is not her best surface and while she wasn't good I didn't pick her to win the tournament.

[00:27:12]You still weren't expected to lose in the second round.

[00:27:14]So, but I think I think the main thing that we have to talk about is Iga because obviously now it's been a period of eight or nine months where we've kind of just been waiting for it to click and you know, we talked about the the move to Francisco Roig and we talked about how some of that things some of that stuff is good for her in in the long run, right? Like in terms of >> Yes.

[00:27:32]>> going back to the basics, um incorporating a lot more spin, a lot more margin, relying on what made her such a great athlete and we saw shades of that at times in the clay court season. I don't even count Madrid because she had an illness there. So, I'm kind of okay to just throw that one out the the performance against Ann Li but if you look at you know, the losses that she had to Muir and Tsurenko and you see some encouraging signs in Rome but then it was very clear as we headed into Roland Garros that Iga was going to be in trouble here because the draw was so difficult to begin with.

[00:28:01]>> Stacked.

[00:28:02]>> Um yeah.

[00:28:03]Uh that you know, then she had to potentially go through Kostyuk and then Svitolina and then likely Andreeva or Rybakina. It turns out it was Andreeva and Andreeva's been a really tough match up for her and for mostly anyone this clay court season.

[00:28:14]And then and then possibly Sabalenka or Coco in the final. So, right away though, she stumbled at the at the first hurdle and I wasn't really surprised because I watched the first three rounds.

[00:28:24]And while the scorelines looked convincing and while she won quite easily and she was never really in danger of losing the part that worried me the most, Carlos, was her serve.

[00:28:34]You know, they have an abbreviated motion and that is the shot that while never was really her strength it used to set up the rest of her baseline game in a way that was very methodical and that she could just roll through so many opponents because she's such a world class returner that she was still breaking serve so much but she was struggling to hold like she lost you know, every match she was losing her serve three, four, five times and those match were more complicated than they needed to be against you know, quite against opposition that you would expect her to handle more comfortably. So, the fact that she then got to Marta Kostyuk who was on a 17-match win streak, who'd won Madrid, who'd won Rouen who was in the form of her life for her to >> always going to be a tough one.

[00:29:13]>> It was going to be tough but just the manner of the defeat rather than the loss itself I think is the most concerning part as an Iga fan and as someone who is essentially seen Iga dominate this tournament, right? And win it four times and to me, you know, I just think that's another one of those turning point losses that you have to look at and you kind of have to go like this is a real worry because you know, from 4-3 onwards in the first set she didn't lose she didn't hold serve. She lost the match 7-5, 6-1 and Kostyuk played great but I don't even think she had to play at her best because Iga didn't really have any other options or ways of winning points and uh in the in the second set and it was over so quick and you know Kostyuk was playing great. She was hitting her forehand really well. She was she's very aggressive on the return.

[00:29:59]She moves great. She's one of the best movers on the WTA tour without a doubt.

[00:30:03]And it's just that you saw Iga have those doubts and not really be able to find a middle ground you know, in the sense of you know, playing aggressively and >> But with margins.

[00:30:17]>> But with margin and said we saw her over hitting and we saw the serve just get picked apart and you know, she talked afterwards about her anxiety and how she's been struggling mentally in terms of she just hasn't quite been able to get it back. Like she loses the lead or she loses the momentum and then for her it just slips away so fast so fast she can't think and the match is over and the same thing just happens again and again and whether that's something mental, that's psychological, there's definitely a component of that, but it's also just opponents feeling like they can get on her and they can rattle her and they can make her feel uncomfortable, especially on on her serve.

[00:30:57]And I just feel like the serve overall has regressed the last 10 months or so because if you remember when she won Wimbledon, it was such a big weapon.

[00:31:04]She was hitting huge serves. She was hitting, you know, and she was placing them in corners and okay, she wasn't a serve bot or anything and she wasn't just winning points outright with it, but it was a lot better than it is than it's been the last 10 months. And also when she won Cincinnati, that was another really big part of her game. She was hitting a lot of well-placed serves setting up her plus one, you know, just being it just it's a pressure valve that allows you to feel more comfortable in matches and she hasn't really been able to have that. So, she's she's had the stress of over hitting and she's gotten no reprieve from her serve.

[00:31:33]And you just feel like the locker room is catching up. You feel like the overall tour has gotten stronger. And so, I just look at it and I I worry with Wimbledon coming up, you know, it's it's unrealistic expectations to ask her to defend that title right now.

[00:31:47]And you know, I I I'm not worried in the sense that we will never see her back at her best or anything like that. It's just >> As good.

[00:31:54]>> It's just that, you know, she's a six-time major champion and she's been at the top and she she will still probably be in the top 10, but it's just that you know, you look at her right now.

[00:32:04]Like she's number 11 in the race and she hasn't made a final in since October and you know, you look at her aura and clay, right? Ever since the Olympics, ever since the Olympics, she hasn't made a final and that's like 10 tournaments that you're looking at. It's a big sample size now. And so, all of a sudden the Wimbledon and Cincinnati achievements last year that were so big for her that you could make a case that okay, she didn't do anything in much else the rest of the year, but she had those two tournaments.

[00:32:26]Those were legacy boosting wins, but now you look at it as more of an outlier the last 2 years and that concerns me.

[00:32:33]>> Bunch, I was going to say yes exactly the same. I was hearing you and I was going to say to you right now it's looking more and more a lot likely that Wimbledon is going to be an outlier.

[00:32:44]And last year you could use Wimbledon as a you know, to to let her off the hook, you know, you could say, "Okay, okay, it was a a year full of ups and downs, but she won Wimbledon." How did she do it? I have no idea cuz she wasn't in form to win Wimbledon, but she channeled her Iga's special grass court form, and she did it quite convincingly, and it was, as you say, a legacy-defining moment. That's perfect. That's cool. But I think what Roland Garros proved is that it's not going to be an easy way back to the top for Iga. It's not going to be a smooth sailing, you know, it's going to be hard. It's going to require a lot of work, a lot of mental work as well, a lot of tournaments to, you know, just step by step, regain that confidence in your patterns because you said, I think that that the thing with his serve with her serve, sorry, is that her serve allowed her to freely use her preferred patterns of play from the baseline.

[00:33:55]You are not overthinking those patterns when your serve has a really good placement and allows you to be located center of the court opening up the court and hitting your spots with margin. That's the that's Iga prime what Iga prime is looking like. But when your serve fails you and your opponents don't fear you anymore cuz I feel like opponents don't fear Iga anymore, as you truly well said. I think they don't think that her game is untouchable, and that's a big deal because >> They used to They used to walk on the court >> to, exactly. Exactly.

[00:34:29]>> Especially when she lost three love or four love by the time they walked on the court. You know, it was quite an aura that she had.

[00:34:35]>> Absolutely, man. Absolutely. And because they feel like her game is not untouchable, they will go and say, "Okay, I have no fear. Let's hit her second serve, hit the returns freely, just go for my shots, and I have a chance to win."

[00:34:52]And that puts added pressure on Iga, and it's like a vicious cycle, you know, that goes on and on and on. And because she doesn't have a serve to hold up and to back up her preferred patterns, her patterns go all over the place. And Iga's the loss was such a crushing loss cuz the way it happened, the way we saw her completely just fall to her knees in in a not in a literal way, of course, but you could see that the shot selection was bad from the middle of the first set, and then there was no issue, no eagerness to fix it.

[00:35:34]It was like >> almost It was almost a look of resignation. Like, I don't have a chance.

[00:35:37]>> Yes. Like, I'm I'm I'm in a dark cloud, and there's no way I'm going to open up that dark cloud, and there's going to be rays of light coming. I have accepted that I'm in a dark cloud, and that the rain's going to keep falling until I am completely soaked wet, and there's nothing I can do.

[00:35:54]And that's That's something you don't like to see, of course, in an athlete, and especially an athlete that we have admired for so long.

[00:36:00]>> Such as Iga that >> add so much value to the WTA circuit, and we we want her, you know, to to look like a true dominator cuz you know, it elevates the game.

[00:36:10]>> Yeah. So, the Is there something like short-term solution to this? I don't think there's a short-term solution. I think it's just a matter of uh trusting the work that he's going to keep putting with Francis.

[00:36:24]Trusting that going back to basics is the proper way to have a clearer mind in terms of using those patterns.

[00:36:35]And if, you know, that process, because I would give her I would give them both time to, you know, implement all the things that they have been working on.

[00:36:44]For me, it just shows that it's still early on his on this partnership to truly come to fruition, you know? So, okay.

[00:36:52]Let's give them time. Let's hope for the best. Let's just try to remember that, you know, when you are in such a dark spot, every single solution that you come up with is going to take some time to fully, you know, be embedded into Iga's DNA.

[00:37:12]And maybe we'll have to look back at the season when it's December and say, "This didn't work. We need a an even more drastic solution." But for me, it's still something that, you know, going with with Francis and having Rafa as a sort of assistant or legend, uh you know, secondary role, of course, but having that to to give him to to be able to to listen to him his advice is something that, you know, I think should make Iga feel a bit more safe and a bit more confident in his in her game.

[00:37:50]But maybe this won't work out. Let's give them time because I feel that Juan Carlos showed to us is that is that that process is going to is going to take more time than what we expected to to to take.

[00:38:04]>> Yeah, and you know, we have we heard Iga say that it might take many months.

[00:38:07]Might take weeks.

[00:38:09]It's not something that you can change.

[00:38:12]>> Yeah, and also the service something that, you know, you can't just fix middle of the year, like just something an approach that you've had for a long time.

[00:38:22]And something that's worked for you in the past. It's just that now I think they have made improvements with the serve, but she she alluded to it.

[00:38:28]She said that I'm still having to think about where to put my elbow, you know, where do uh you know, how to hit the serve in in in big moments.

[00:38:35]>> Cuz they haven't had the proper time.

[00:38:37]They haven't had the proper time to truly you know >> Yeah.

[00:38:41]>> embed that serve motion. That's why it takes time for her to get that confidence back because even the the the biggest of the shots is not there yet.

[00:38:51]Yeah. Yeah, I get it. Tennis moves on very quick, so >> It does, you know, and you just you look at the tour as well. It just gets stronger and there's just so much depth and you know, you feel like you know, right now she's fighting to stay in the top 10. That's what it feels like. It's just it's tough to uh you know, to stop the bleeding, but at some point it will click back for her.

[00:39:16]It's just a matter of you know, and and she might be one of those players that just still shows flashes every now and then, but never dominates the game again. And I think she has to be okay with that in her mind.

[00:39:25]That look, I I I don't need to dominate the game anymore, you know, I did that for two or three years and it was >> I think it depends on on what those flashes like accumulate to, like are those flashes are you referring to winning a couple of Grand Slams every two years, every three years?

[00:39:47]If it's that, I think >> Yeah, look, I mean, so she's a top >> She will be happy, but if not I'm not sure if she should be happy with that.

[00:39:55]>> I I agree and because she's, you know, Roland Garros was such a happy hunting ground for her. Clay was such a happy hunting ground for her.

[00:40:01]That hasn't been the case the last couple of seasons.

[00:40:03]So now you look at it and you say you know, because she did she's won so much and essentially you're missing the Australian Open, you know, the Olympic loss. I still don't think she's gotten get it that loss had to have haunted her. She was such a big favorite going in and you know, she loses that second set to Zheng Qinwen.

[00:40:24]And then, you know, and then and so it's a mixture of things because you have the you know, the the coaching split with Victor You have the crushing loss at the Olympics.

[00:40:32]Which, you know, only comes every 4 years and we know how much the Olympics mean to her and we know how badly she wanted that gold medal. And we know what a big favorite she was.

[00:40:40]And we know that she was in a winning position in that second set against Zheng.

[00:40:44]And didn't get it. And then you have the carryover effect uh towards yeah, the the new coaching relationship with Wim Fissette. And then you have the you know, the unfortunate 1-month uh you know, doping case as well, right?

[00:40:57]And so that that had to have haunted her or she had to prove her innocent. And you know, even though it was only just a 1-month suspension, it still it takes a toll on you on your on your reputation, on your you know, how people how the public views you and and for her that must have been a very difficult. And then and then you have the Australian Open semifinal loss to Madison Keys from match point up where she was playing really good tennis last year in January. Actually, I think people forget that in January last year she was playing some of her best tennis she's ever played in January up until that point.

[00:41:28]And, you know, she was one point away from the final and it was a great match, probably the best match of the year as far as WTA matches go. And as far as uh one of the most inspiring runs I've ever seen to a major from Madison Keys.

[00:41:40]But Iga was so close to winning that and you know, she had it on her serve on her racket match point 8-5 in the third set super tiebreak. And I just feel like a loss like that takes a while to get over with. So it's like three or four things kind of in the span of three or four months.

[00:41:55]But then, you know, then we did see her find it. We did see her make the semifinals of Roland Garros. She beat Rybakina along the way.

[00:42:01]She lost in three sets to Sabalenka, but the roof was closed and you could you could still make a case that it was a positive Roland Garros, right? Even though she lost in in three, you still felt like it was quite ready.

[00:42:12]She wasn't quite ready, but you know, the expectations were so low for her for the grass court season. So then to see her make the final of Bad Homburg, win Wimbledon, win Cincinnati, you know, win another title at a post US Open as well, right?

[00:42:23]She won Seoul.

[00:42:25]So, and she still finished last year number two in the world. But it's just you look at it since October, since the US Open last year, and you're just and I kind of at the time those losses at the end of the US Open, Carlos, I kind of thought, okay, it's been a long year. She's going to finish number two in the world.

[00:42:41]You know, the focus is Australia. Let's see what happens there. But then you saw the United Cup, you saw the Australian Open, you saw the Sunshine double didn't go well for her at all. You saw, you know, the the the relationship with Wim Fissette wasn't working, the relationship with uh her psychologist was quite fragile on the on the court.

[00:42:58]We saw the demons come in. We saw, you know, and then and then this clay reset was I was just, you know, it seemed like, okay, it was going to be a good reset.

[00:43:08]It was going to be something that will that will manifest itself in results over time, but the key thing is over time, and I just don't think they had the right They didn't have enough time here for it to really work out just enough yet.

[00:43:21]So, let's So, let's see because I I do think Iga's one of those players that can win on any surface. As much as people >> True.

[00:43:28]>> you know, say that you know, clay is her best surface, it it by far is still, but that doesn't mean that she cannot win those other titles if she's in the right head space. And for me, it's all about her being in the right head space. It's about improving that.

[00:43:41]So, it's about believing when things go wrong that you can turn it around and that for me, she has to win some tight matches. She has to win some ugly matches, let's say, Coco style, you know?

[00:43:52]She has to She has to grind her way to a title >> grind her way to a title maybe, even if it's a smaller one, you know? That would >> You know, she has to be winning when things don't work. I I'd love to see her just throw up moon balls. I'd love to see her you know, change change things up and I do feel like >> Winning ugly. Winning ugly, bunch.

[00:44:12]>> Yeah, yeah. But she talks about playing well in practice and being able to do those things well and feeling good, but then when the matches come around, the stress and the anxiety just cripples her, I think.

[00:44:22]And you just see her you see her just losing it in real time and it's slipping away really fast. So she can prevent that from happening and she can work it out internally.

[00:44:34]You know, it's going to be it's going to be interesting to see because like I said, you still see top-level every now and then. You still see her for a second and you think, "Oh, that's old Iga."

[00:44:42]You know, you'll see her for one set and stuff.

[00:44:44]>> It's a short span, yeah. Yeah.

[00:44:45]>> But she just has so many more ups and downs and you know, that's what she has to try to weather right now. And so it's tricky, but at the same time, I you know, we do know that she has it in her.

[00:44:55]She is a champion.

[00:44:56]So I do see her at some point showing it again. It's just a question of when, how long it takes, what it looks like.

[00:45:06]But to just give up on someone at the age of 25, I think would be wrong.

[00:45:10]>> Of course.

[00:45:10]>> still, you know, kind of in the prime of her career. Like as discouraging as it must be for Iga fans and as you know, different the landscape looks right now with her not being in the top five really in terms of contenders.

[00:45:24]I still think there is um you know, we're we're seeing it and and look, maybe the run of Magda Linette, you know, getting to the final here.

[00:45:33]Maybe a run like that >> That should draw some inspiration.

[00:45:36]>> right? Maybe that inspires Iga. You know, she sees her countrywoman who has been with her >> Hopefully.

[00:45:42]>> in the benches of United Cup and you know, Billie Jean King Cup as as just like a friend, as someone you know, aside from that.

[00:45:48]>> She's a friend. They they they they spent so much time together when they were under 14, under 16, yeah.

[00:45:53]>> They were in the finals of the junior Australian Open uh together.

[00:45:57]>> And at tennis Europe tournaments, I saw like under 14, they won a tennis Europe tournament and upon that, they are great friends. So, yeah, that should draw some inspiration for sure. Yeah.

[00:46:07]>> Yeah, for sure. And so, so it's to seeing a run like that from her and then just seeing, you know, uh that like like that that is something that I think will inspire her. But, you know, as far as the rest of the tournament goes, we also saw Mira win her first major and we saw we saw what a great talent she is and we've always known for a while, the last 3 years, that she's she's very good.

[00:46:27]It's just putting the pieces together.

[00:46:29]>> But, when you see her when you when you see it all happen for her and when you see how complete her game is, both defensively and offensively, and you see how much she has the right people around her and how she's now number one in the race and how, you know, it's like it's really come together for her in such a short amount of time.

[00:46:47]>> True.

[00:46:48]>> And she's she's one of the she's one of the teenagers, just like Iga, to win a major win her first major at 19. So, congratulations to her because she's one of my favorite players to watch when it comes to just how effortless she can make the game look because she reads the game so well.

[00:47:03]She anticipates her opponent's play so well. The variety doesn't really bother her. And when she's in the right head space, she feels like one of the most complete players complete young players I've ever seen, honestly.

[00:47:15]>> Yeah, when we when she enters that flow state, she's really like a a catching player and, you know, [clears throat] very pleasing, very very smooth, you know, tennis. And I I give her a lot of credit on the because of the way she handled and completely dismantled Kalinskaya's game in the final. You know, the way that she set up all the shots that all the attacking shots, the way she set them up with her footwork her footwork, sorry. That was great to see. The way she took, you know, uh the initiative from the first point so that Falinska could sense that she was going to be rushed every time that she had that her shots were falling a bit short. That takes a toll mentally on the opponent and the way she redirected the game with specially her backhand also her forehand was just dropping bombs and that is something great to see on a young time because not so long ago we were saying that she had to change a lot of things technically on her forehand for her game to really boom and to really you know become what she is becoming right now and she took those those steps and she made those adjustment adjustments and her forehand was great you know so I mean for me it was just bound to happen this is a generational talent that will probably won win sorry many Grand Slams in the years to come and to accomplish at such a young age it shows how badly she wants it cuz the process could have been longer could have lasted longer until I mean the way to to to her first Grand Slam could have lasted longer and it didn't because mentally she is a powerhouse already.

[00:49:00]The entourage that she has around her they are really tennis savvy and they know how to handle those moments Conchita also deserves a big shout out.

[00:49:11]And yeah man well I mean she's here to stay I believe.

[00:49:16]>> I think she's going to win many more majors and I think she's going to win at least one more in the next 2 years.

[00:49:22]You know it's hard to say more because it's just you know the the depth is so good on the WTA but she is one of the players who has a chance to get to world number one this year. She's number one in the race right now.

[00:49:33]>> She's number one in the race yeah yeah.

[00:49:34]>> She can play on all the surfaces.

[00:49:38]I don't see why not. She's bigger and stronger and she's got more firepower now in her shots. You know you see the way she's accelerating on the forehand in big moments. She wasn't doing that 3 months ago. And I feel like a lot of it is between the ears for her because we saw her melt down in Indian Wells. We saw her lose her temper a lot of the times. We saw her the pressure get to her at the end of really last year since the Louis Vuitton match and the quarters last year at Roland Garros.

[00:50:03]We saw that she's Yeah, but you know, we always said that she's just a teenager that, you know, that she's going to have ups and downs and, you know, but but she has the right people in her corner. She's done the work with the psychologist.

[00:50:15]>> True.

[00:50:16]>> You know, after and she didn't honestly she didn't look in great mental state in the second and third round here as well, but her team just sat her down and said this is not going to cut it. They they showed her a lot of tough love.

[00:50:25]And after that every time I saw her on the court from the fourth round onwards until the end of the tournament whenever things didn't go her way, whenever she would lose points in a row she almost had no reaction.

[00:50:37]And that to me is like instead of distracting yourself uh and getting so angry over losing a point she started to treat every individual point the same.

[00:50:51]And just accepted it and moved on a lot faster. Like it's easier said than done, you know.

[00:50:56]>> Yeah. Takes a lot of time but she she accomplished it.

[00:50:59]>> Because there was so many things in that final that could have derailed Mira.

[00:51:02]One, the start that Maya was off to being up 3-2 in the first set. Also the crowd. The crowd was so much in favor of Collinska.

[00:51:11]They were mostly Polish fans in the crowd. Like it wasn't quite like Louis Vuitton levels.

[00:51:15]But it definitely could have been something that would have set Mira off in the past, for sure.

[00:51:19]And then also just the variety and the the uniqueness of her game and how it took some time for Mira to get used to that ball, but then then she realized that actually I can stay toe-to-toe with with her in the variety and I can actually anticipate her drop shots. I can hit good shots off of them. I can have more firepower. She was able to use all those things in her game and the run of 10 games in a row that she went on, that was the match right there. Like she built herself enough buffer that even if she failed to serve it out at 5-1 in the second set you still didn't feel like she was ever in trouble. So, that was um she was never in trouble really. So, you know, for her to come away with it, beating the players that she did beat, even though she didn't have to beat Aryna Sabalenka or Coco Gauff or Elena Rybakina, I don't look at that as like oh wow, she had an easy draw or anything. I almost find it more impressive that she came through and won because those are the kind of players that were beating her the last 1 year.

[00:52:10]And so, you know, to come away as a heavy favorite and actually come through, kind of like in a very different manner, but you know, like what we had on the men's side, it's just that, you know, that there were we had more contenders on the women's than just, you know, than just these than just Novak Djokovic and Alexander Zverev, but uh but still it was it was quite quite something to watch. So, now we will see how the women's landscape looks like, uh I guess with the grass court season coming up.

[00:52:39]And, you know, to finish, I guess let's talk a little bit about Carlos because obviously Carlos won't be playing Wimbledon, he won't be playing Queens, two tournaments that he's been very good at.

[00:52:47]And now, you know, the the timeline seems to be progressing, but progressing quite slowly and, you know, naturally.

[00:52:53]And so, let's see you know, if he's able to come back by Cincinnati US Open. Let's see, it might be too quick for him to expect much in Cincinnati US Open, but I think he's going to play it very cautiously.

[00:53:05]And even if it means missing the US Open, I think he's prepared to go that route from what it seems like because he knows that he has so many more years ahead of him. And I think, you know, he was asked a question at the beginning of the Australian Open by a journalist.

[00:53:20]He was asked, you know, would you take the Australian Open and not win any majors this year or would you rather win two or three, but not win Australia?

[00:53:28]His answer was he'd rather win the Australian Open. So, now that he's won the Australian Open, that might be, you know, that might be enough for me to say that this year was a success.

[00:53:40]>> Ah, I mean, he ticked off his main goal and one that propelled him into tennis Olympus. So, what what what else can you can you actually ask him, demand him to do, you know? I think he has taken the sensible route, the sensible choice. There's not not much to say sorry cuz recovery is going is pretty He's progressing slowly but slowly and carefully but everything's going to plan as of now.

[00:54:12]The thing is the plan is like a very slow plan but everything is being laid out just as they imagine. First they had like this big cast that immobilized the wrist so not to take more risks. Now he had a lighter, softer cast during the last week when he went on holidays in in Portugal and he had that, you know, very light cast so that it also prevents the wrist from heavy moves but it's a bit more, you know, softer on the body.

[00:54:47]And the thing is until he hits another ball, until he has the racket on his hands and sees how he's feeling we we can't honestly take more make any more assumptions cuz it's all going to depend on how he's feeling when he's back on court. If he's not feeling any pain, just as they have carefully planned for him not to feel any pain when he's coming back on court because they gave him the time and he took the time that was necessary for him to just, you know, come back whenever he's ready and with presumably enough time for the wrist to have healed up but we are not going to know for sure 100% for sure until he's back on court. That's the thing.

[00:55:30]He has taken the sensible route. He did he made the sensible choice. He doesn't want to be another Juan Martin del Potro, another Dominic Thiem. There's way, I mean there are like 10 more years if he wants in his career. So, we can sacrifice this one especially considering that he has you know, he has fulfilled his main goal and fulfilled his main dream this year.

[00:55:55]So, that makes it even more sensible and makes it even more logical to miss, you know, whatever he misses until his wrist is fully and completely healed.

[00:56:10]>> Yeah, for sure.

[00:56:11]And yes, we're going to miss Carlos on the court, but everything that you say is 100% true in terms of not rushing the comeback and taking all the right steps and being showing all the right precaution and to hear that it's going well is good news. Obviously, you know, when you do come back like he did, you know, for example, from his arm injury in 2024.

[00:56:31]>> Yeah.

[00:56:32]>> Yeah. It took him a while to mentally get over hitting a forehand.

[00:56:36]And so, you don't, you know, you want I can only imagine with the wrist injury it would be >> It's a slow process, but >> even harder. So, that being said, uh Yeah, we're we're probably still going to record another episode after Wimbledon.

[00:56:52]You know, we'll recap Wimbledon and you probably won't hear from us for the next 1 month as much and when it comes to doing episodes, but you can follow us all on Twitter. You know, you can check out check out below, check out our handles, you know, @1 3 2 K and @the magician 5 GS.

[00:57:07]And you can follow us at @egocarlostennis. Be sure to subscribe on YouTube, you know, podcasts, wherever you get them.

[00:57:14]And we'll definitely we'll definitely be back.

[00:57:17]And, you know, we'll still keep recapping all the main stories that are happening in tennis. It's just going to be a bit slower with Carlos not being in the picture as much.

[00:57:28]But with that, this was a great episode.

[00:57:29]Thanks so much for your time, Carlos.

[00:57:31]>> Thank you as well, Vansh. Um, great to, you know, be speaking and talking about tennis, our passion with you as usual.

[00:57:38]So, cheers and see you in the next episode.

[00:57:41]>> Yep.