This talk uses academic prestige to repackage ancient mysticism into a "radio" metaphor that lacks actual empirical weight. It is a sophisticated attempt to treat intense chemical hallucinations as objective metaphysical truths.
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DMT Entities, Consciousness & Psychedelics - Batuhan Bintas
Added:[music] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to another episode of the Hodgecast. Today I'm joined by I've just asked how you pronounce this, but do you want to introduce yourself? It's Ba B.
>> Batuhan.
>> Bathuhan and your surname?
>> Bintes.
>> Vintage. There we go. You've got the accents as well, so you've done it better than me. I'm really looking forward to this one, Batawan. Because I've kind of spoke about it with other people on podcast before. obviously mutual friend of ours, Graeme Hancock, and it's the whole um psychedelics and you know the >> alternative realm and and every all that good stuff that comes with it. Uh I myself have never done them. It is something that's eluded me and we'll probably unpack that more as this conversation goes on as to why and hopefully at the end you can convince me because I've spoke about it with Graeme and he he did signpost me a few contacts in Peru. So shout out to Graeme. um but I've just not followed through with it.
I was supposed to go to Peru to do um Machu Picchu and it never materialized.
But I'll stop rambling now. Give us a little bit of an overview of who you are and talk to me a little bit about the Imperial Imperial London DMT trials that you did.
>> Yeah. So, well, thank you for having me, HJ. Uh so, I'm Bintage. I'm originally from Turkey, but I live in London. uh I was one of the 12 volunteers at Imperial Colleg's uh 2016 DMT trials. So long story short, we were giving an injection of high dose of DMT and our brain was scanned uh for science scientific purposes. It was rather like a a scene from you know the matrix like in a waking up from the matrix. So, and that uh that wasn't my first psychedelic experience, but that was the psychedelic experience that completely shifted my life.
>> I was going to say cuz um sorry to take you off floor there. What was it that kind of cuz I think for a lot of people cuz how old were you at the time? You've only >> 23.
>> 23. So, a lot of people to volunteer themselves. Uh one would argue they're either a bit unhinged or they've just got a they've had an experience before so they kind of have an understanding of what they're going into. So what what I suppose tell us a little bit about your first experience.
>> You mean first DMT experience?
>> Your first DMC sorry >> my first DMT I will actually tell you the uh my first DMT experience actually happened few months before the injection. So how it happened was like um couple so I had the DM psychedelic experiences before the injection and and I was interested in the mysteries because I was raised by my Sufi grandmother. Um [clears throat] but then in in the year 2015 I met David Eritzu who was the head of the psychedelic research at Imperial College. I met him at a you know a house gathering found out that he was the head of the psychedelic research. I I was 22 back then. I was like do you need any volunteers for your research? and he was like, "Yeah, we're looking for volunteers." So, we spent a whole year, you know, back and forth messaging and emailing each other. Then, in May 2016, he reached out to me and he was like, "Uh, there's actually a study that I think you're a good fit." So, we we met, had a drink, and then he was telling me, "So, Patan," it's quite funny story. He was like, "So, Pan, we have three this article um scientific studies going around the psychedelics." And he was like, "So, we have one that is about psilocybin and depression treatment." I was like, "Yes." I was like, and he was like, but we're looking for depressed people and you don't seem like you're depressed, so you're not a good cander.
I was like, damn it. And then he was like, damn, we're looking for we have another study that is exploring the creativity that comes with LSD. I was like, perfect. I was He was like, but we he was like, but you're an artist, so you're already creative. So, we're looking for non-creative people. I was like, damn it. I was like, what are the chances that, you know, I come across a scientist and I don't fit in this, you know, these studies. Then he was like, but there is one more study that I think you might be a good fit. I was like, "What is it?" He's like, "We're looking for experienced psychedelic users and and the study is about DMT. So, you'll be getting a DMT injection and you need to be holding your body for an for an hour and then and your body will be scanned and and you need to be inexperienced in DMT and I think you're a good fit for that." He was like, "Would you like to take this opportunity?" And I stopped for a second. I was like, "Hell yeah." And he was like, "But have you done DMT?" I was like, "No, I haven't done DMT, but I'm experienced with psychedelics." I was like, "Give me a month and I'll sort it." And then and by sorting it I didn't mean like you know I was going to run after you know I was scaros or whatever.
I knew that you know because my previous psychic experiences showed me that like life is magical. You know if an opportunity finds you I think it's because the universe thinks that you're ready for it. That night I went home I meditated and I made a wish. I was like God universe I have this opportunity. If you think that I'm a good fit please bring me the DMT experience because I need to have this DMT experience. I kid you not. Two weeks later, DMT found me at a completely random situation. I had my first experience. And after I had my first experience, I was like, I know this that place, you know, like I literally broke through, went into another dimension. And it didn't feel alien at all. It felt super, you know, um, familiar. And couple of months later, I had my second DMT experience where I had the entity encounters. This was in September. And then I told David, I'm like, I'm ready. I had the DMT experiences. and three months later I was in the lab.
>> Well, yeah.
>> So, that's your Batman origin story as [laughter] it were. Um, you know, it's fascinating that I mean just just I suppose a little bit of a context for for for the audience. So, DMT is dimethylryptoine. I pronounced that right and am I right in thinking that that chemical is already inside us and it's one of the contributing factors as to why or we think it's one of the contributing factors as to why we dream.
Is that is that right? is or is that sort of outdated science?
>> It's still debatable. There are theories about it, but it hasn't been scientifically proven yet. But what we know is that DMT comes from tryptophane family, which is where like you know serotonin and melatonin also come. So like they all tryptoamines. So DMT, serotonin, and melatonin they chemically the molecular structure is very similar. And what I find very interesting is that melatonin, which is the sleep hormone that puts us into sleep, is very similar to DMT. So there are studies about like the questions um could it be that we dream because the body naturally releases DMT? And another thing that I find really fascinating is that a lot of people that report being abducted by aliens, they always report that the experience took place at nighttime when they're sleeping. And [snorts] when you look at their experience and compare it to people's entity encounters, there's so many similarities. So there is there are studies they're looking at like could it be that the alien encounter experiences or alien abduction experience that happen at night happens because of androgenous like natural DMT release from the body. This is a theory still hasn't been proven because I've spoken to some researchers who are like investigating this and they say that the challenge is that to is like it's the challenge is to measure someone's DMT and melatonin levels whilst they're sleeping because it's it's it would be a quite invasive thing for the body, you know, having someone sleep and then have needles go into their body and then try to measure, you know, their their DMT, you know, um levels and expect them to be abducted by aliens on that day. M yeah. No, it's it's interesting. I I think where I'd um sort of realize that conclusion as well would it be you just outlined it's a theory is dreams can be so abstract. So I mean I I mean I'm sure I'm speaking for many people here, but I I've had dreams that have in the moment I've they've been so vivid and I I could describe them in the moment, but then when I wake up trying to describe them, it's almost like they've become abstract. They're no longer as as clear.
And when I when I speak to a few people who who've done psychedelics in the past, that's a similar description they give. Um so I can see how that potentially would would would hold water. Interestingly, you mentioned there with the um the alien abduction thing. I mean, what what's your what are you big on the whole UFO phenomena stuff or >> I'm interested, but I believe in more interdimensional beings.
>> Well, we was chatting off camera. the more the more I get in involved in this discussion.
>> If you'd have asked me say 3 or 4 years ago, I probably would have said these encounters are extraterrestrial. But the more I've kind I suppose it's just research and knowledge, the more I've kind of gone down the rabbit hole, >> I too subscribe to the rather than being extraterrestrial or interdimensional, but this is coming from a guy who's never done psyched. I mean, I did LSD once when I was 18. Um, I suppose it's it's it's not the same as DMT. Is it the kind of experience that you get? Um but it can be it can Oh my mine must have been very similar.
>> Um so yeah, so we was I suppose I better outline that a little bit. So we we was in um it was a lad's sort of boozy uh weekend in Blackpool while the illuminations were on. So >> you can imagine that was quite quite a fun experience. But I didn't go into another realm. I was very much aware of my surroundings. I just sort of seen a few figures >> elves kind of like the the best way I could describe them. Not like Yeah.
Yeah. elves, pixies, that sort of thing.
Um, but again, we were in Blackpool while the illuminations were on, so it could have been that could have been a contributing factor. But yeah, interesting. So, what's the reason? Cuz there is some science behind it. I'm going to let you articulate this. Why we don't trigger DMT naturally anyway.
>> There there's a block, isn't there?
There's some Isn't this when people do DMT, they have to there's something inside us >> that the interesting thing. So we in our gut there's an enzyme in our gut in our stomach an enzyme called monamin oxidase which which is when you take DMT orally monomin oxidase immediately destroys it.
I mean it's not it's not an enzyme specifically designed by the body to stop DMT but it's like one of the enzymes that it destroys is DMT. So I find it really fascinating. Not only that our bodies our body is so familiar with DMT almost like a key and and a door like you know our body knows how to break it down. It also know how to stop it like as soon as you take DMT orally um your body releases monominoxidase and and destroys it. And Iascaros somehow they figured out you know how to stop that enzyme. Out of all the hundreds and thousands of plants in the Amazon, they found chakruna which contains high amounts of DMT. As I said, if you just drink chakruna leaves has no effect because monominox destroys it. But then when you mix it with Iawaska root, which has monominoxidase inhibitor that stops that enzymes activity for 8 hours and then you get high on on the chakruna leaves and I found that really fascinating. Why did you know out of all these you know plants they come uh they they they found the combination and you look at Middle East for example uh you have the Syrian rue which is an equivalent of Iawaskar root and again Syrian rue it's a plant that is used in Iran Iraq Turkey even today you can buy in kilograms people burn it as a sage to cleanse the the house from you know evil spirits but it contains monaminox oxidase inhibitor I find it really fascinating that you know different cultures still go for the same plant like different plants that have the same chemicals but they associate them with you know with the spirit world. So when you smoke DMT what happens is you know it goes to your lungs and from your lungs it goes straight to your brain and you have like 10 15 minutes of a breakthrough into the other world but as soon as you ingest the DMT you smoke DMT as far as I know uh then your body then releases the monomin oxidase to stop it but you have that window of like 10 minutes what I of seeing the other word what I find really fascinating is that so like I said my grandma she was a sufi istic and our bedtime stories when I was a kid was about like Allah created multiple dimensions and material world is inhabited by humans, animals, plants but then we're surrounded by other dimensions we may not see them but because Allah put a curtain in front of our eyes so we don't get confused but there are ways to open that curtain and look through and meet the genes the other beings and I find it really fascinating you know as I grew up like I always wanted to open that curtain when I had my first mushroom experience I thought I was going to see flying pink elephants. But then I I realized like I was like okay I actually found the curtain. I opened the curtain you know I was like I should follow what my grandma said. I need to be careful when I'm look peeking into the other side. So for me metaphorically you know that curtain that my grandma was telling me that could be the monamin oxidase you know in the scientific term it's the monaminox oxidate that stops us and in a way it's a good thing I believe because I don't think we could function as human beings if we were constantly on the DMT world to be able to live in the material world you need to be you know grounded but I don't mind you know peing into the other side to remember like what else is out there every I suppose it's like when you go on vacation, you know, you're not necessarily going to live. Yeah, exactly. [laughter] Yeah. Quite apt.
You're not going to go to that that place to to live or maybe you will, who knows? But you're not really going there to live permanently. You're to to see the place. So, I suppose it's it's you're kind of just opening the lid in that regard.
>> But then, can I add something else there?
>> Of course. What I find really fascinating now is that like cuz I always thought like if we can have a breakthrough to the other world and meet entities and literally like see this other realm, it looks like it is an other realm and uh like that's just a 10 minutes but what if if you could extend that state so scientists at imperial college actually worked on this. So instead of giving one shot of DMT they were like okay can we actually continuously infuse you know DMT into the body like continuously inject it and now [snorts] there are retreat centers are opening around the world they are giving DMT extended state experience and as far as I know recently they've been giving people DMT for 5 hours >> imagine like being in that realm for 5 hours that's your reality >> it's like you know putting a virtual reality set on that's your reality.
Reality is defined by the mind that's observing it. When my mind is observing that reality, I'm under the influence of TMT for 5 hours. That will be my reality. Who who is to say that it's not my reality?
>> I think the the interest in um when I've had conversations, one of the interesting things is people see the same things. People have very similar experiences. So, I suppose I suppose let's let's let's talk about that. It's um your first experience and then your subsequent experiences. Kind of like describe that as best as you can. Maybe it isn't your first one, but kind of like describe what it is you see during these >> these trips.
>> In my first experience, it felt more like a homecoming. I felt a tingling sensation at the back of my head and I felt an energy going through my spine to my literally for onto my brain to my crown chakra. I could feel a tingling in on my third eye and I wasn't like you know crazy about spirituality whatsoever back then. So I don't think I was having this experience because I was like invested in this experiences. But what really blew my mind was that um couple of months later when I had my second DMT experience this the the experience this was a big dose and I worked with a shaman and I went the experience immediately within few seconds I was in this tunnel made of fractals and I was going really really really fast and at the end of the tunnel I found I saw this this being as I was approaching and I saw that it had an elephant head with six arms it had a human body and elephant head >> ganesh ganesh >> but I didn't know what Hinduism back then I was raised in Islamic you know culture. The other religion that I knew was just Christianity and um and I had no clue about Hinduism whatsoever and I saw this you know the elephant had it being and it as I I was approaching it opened its arms had six arms. I was like I could tell that this was like a prominent figure of this place you know and I I was like wow and I was like completely mind-b blown. remember it's its you know phase then uh then I then a couple of weeks no no then uh couple of weeks later I had this urgency to go to Camden Town and I was walking around there and I was like what am I doing here you know and then and as I was passing by one of the Indian shops I saw the drape with this elephant headed being I was like I was like wow I was like that is the that's the being that I saw in the other realm and I ran into the you know shop I talked to the guy and asked the guy who is this being and he said oh Ganesh and I went that night I went back home immediately went on to DMT forums there's a place called DMT Nexus which is one of the first websites uh actually uh and for it's been around since '90s and I was looking at people's trip reports and I real I found out that it wasn't only me there were hundreds of thousands of people that experience Hindu deities without knowing what Hinduism was and and not only that like the experience were all similar. So to me that just showed that you know perhaps you know we don't science likes to say like oh you're into Hinduism that's why you're tripping you know that's why you're hallucinating. I like to believe that no because I didn't know Hinduism. It's like I think these gods, these beings are part of human experience that we can access to and uh and and certain chemicals when you alter your sense you know the your body's chemical structures then you give access your your consciousness to to reach these other realms that might be surrounded by or inhabited by these intelligences and and one of those intelligence that I encountered was Ganesh and so did you know the Hindus for thousands of years. They went there in their time saw these deities came back and painted you know in their temple walls and today we're still you know experiencing this these beings after I experienced Ganesh this is like where I found really fascinating is that so Ganesh is known as the obstacle remover and finally a lot of people that experience Ganesh what I found on the internet that they experience Ganesh at the beginning of their DMT trip and when you experience Ganesh almost like he is the obstacle removes the obstacle between this world and the other world because after I experienced Ganesh I went straight into him and through that opened another portal and that was my first uh breakthrough into the other world and then as I went into that realm I looked around I saw these um angels from Christianity they were looking down on me and I was like I'm dead you know I'm like I'm dead like I'm in this angelic realm doesn't feel bad you know I was just like just admitted the fact that I was dead then then I was like surrounded by this um this this fractal, beautiful fractal and it's then the experience started like getting quite sensual and then for the lack of a better word very sexual and I was like okay I'm this other world I I'm dead and then it's this is getting you know out of control like what is going on and then this this fractal started like putting something inside my mouth and I was like this is like too invasive and I was just like no and I pulled that thing out and then this fractal again started putting this thing in my mouth and I was like and I was just like resisting to I was like this is getting too invasive and then like I was literally telepathically communicating with it and then I as I pulled that out uh I realized that this fractal was just a distraction and the sexual energy was a distraction from what was actually happening because as soon as I pulled that out the fractal disappeared and I was in a lab surrounded by mantis beings laying laying down in the lab with like needles attached to my body like like in the Matrix, you know, when Neo wakes up from the matrix. He's in the Nebocarater, like the little spaceship.
And I I saw all these needles. I'm like, "What the heck is going on?" And this mantis, one of the mantis beings came back towards me and got really close.
They're like, "Relax." And then he just tried to put this thing in my mouth again. And I was just like resisting. I was like, "No." I was like, "Get away from me." Like, "Who are you? What the heck is going on?" I was like, "I'm not giving you my consent to, you know, like to to put this thing in my mouth."
They're like, "No, you did." They're like I'm like what? He's like you just smoked DMT. You gave us your concern. I was like nobody told me about this. Then they were doing something in my DNA. I could feel it. They were like touching something between my skin and my skeleton. Some sort of like let's call it the ethereal body, you know. Um uh for the lack of a better word, they were like doing something. I could feel some sort of like an upgrade. And and when I came back from that experience, I deep down I knew that my life wasn't going to be the same. And and ever since then, you know, that's that was one of the turning points in my life. My psychedelic experiences hugely, you know, shifted. Like maybe up until then, they were more like spiritual insightful experiences. But after that, my psychedelic experiences became super interdimensional alien encounters. I don't know what they did. Uh but like 10 years later here I am talking to you.
>> No, it's fascinating. I mean that that in itself is is is quite the roller coaster to go from Ganesha to angels to then >> mantis beings trying to probe you. It's essentially is yeah [laughter] quite the experience. Um, so what I suppose I mean let let's tie into so we'll start with kind of like Ganesha there cuz one of the things I I've had multiple conversations on this show about religion and the oldest religion that's that's still preached and practiced today is is Hinduism and one one could attribute Hinduism as as quite for lack of a better phrase outlandish in terms of not not the belief system but the gods the visuals obviously with Ganesha and and Vishnu and Shiva it's It's very kind of they're quite abstract looking. And if someone said to me, if I didn't know anything about Hinduism and someone tried to describe a psychedelic experience they had, >> they're the kind of entities that they would probably be able to describe. And I also think with Hinduism being so old, I mean, it comes from like the the Indis Valley, then the Vadic traditions, >> you kind of have to think to yourself, and you touched on it before, that they have these herbs that also help allow the DMT to to take full effect. You kind of have to start making the parallels between okay this religion so old these deities people are still seeing them now you've seen Ganesha without knowing the who Ganesha was >> you kind of sort of think to yourself >> was Hinduism on to something were they just well ahead of the time with with these entities and then obviously when you factor in religion as a concept and you know the the the construction of heaven and hell and is heaven just a good trip hell's just a bad trip you kind of do start just draw the parallels or certainly >> would you agree with that statement?
>> Oh yeah, 100%. I mean up until that experience with Mantis and Ganesh like I wouldn't consider myself a religious person. Uh but I wasn't a fully atheist but I was more like towards the atheists you know cuz you know I was raised in you know Islamic political situation in Turkey. So I was really put off from religion because of that. When I experienced Ganesh later on the mantis beings later on I had other psychedelic experiences where for the lack of a better I met God you know I met this like I deep down in my bones I knew that this is what what we call as you know prophets shamans mystics alchemists have experienced I was like this is the world that they're you know they're talking about this is the world that all these people have been talking about if there's another world that they've connected I don't want to know you know if this is already you know intense enough then I started reading about this stuff I was Could it be that you know they also had the similar experience then when you look at the Vic tradition they talk about a drink called soma >> so we don't know what was in the soma the knowledge is lost people are still trying to you know recreate soma but what we know is that it was psychedel psychoactive and it could be that they might some people say it had mushrooms in it some people say it had syiran r in it some people said something else maybe acacia plant or maybe a psychedelic that we haven't discovered yet but it was a psychedelic brew which then gave the inspiration to the you know Hinduism and when you look at the Hindu gods like come on I mean it's it's the most psychedelic of religion you know you have like you know multiple arms you have half human half animals and and and the teachings are really you know very psychedelic in my experiences following that I then I met Kali the the the darker form of you know dura and then I met Shiva I literally met Khali like few times like she comes opens her arms you see her tongue out and then and you really truly understand like what this um symbology is and I met Shiva I also started like question like could it be that that because we maybe we're tapping into the collective consciousness and because the collective consciousness associates cali with the tongue out and and maybe that's what we're connecting to or these beings exist out there we just you know connecting and then seeing I came to conclusion now that you know as human beings like you know we're born and then you know you you wake up you eat you fall in love you know you get your heart broken you know you go to work you make money and psychedelic experiences is also a part of the human experience we just re-reme remembering you know and and these entities kind of feel I feel like they want us to you know connect there and and meet them uh more cuz some of entities like there's one entity you know like the machine elves like Terrence McKinnon always talks about talked about some entities when you meet them they're telling you like where have you been we miss you you haven't you haven't come and visit us like and then deep down you also feel like you you you've been to that place before and you have um met these entities before when I when I had we doing it during a ceremony I that I had with my sister she then we she experienced DMT and when she came back from the trip we were waiting you know we were like really excited to see her, you know, first experience of DMT. She opened her eyes and she was like, "I know that place. I've been there before." I was like, "Wow." Like, like I met so many people that when they go to DMT space, when they come back, they say that it was more like a homecoming that more like a re-remembering, you know, what we kind of forgot.
>> Well, we we all experience from time to time uh deja vu, you know, where we we we stop and ponder like I've been here before. or recognize that that could potentially be a blip, you know, and and and entering this realm without just doing it holistically rather than being enhanced because >> like you've mentioned there and I've heard it on multiple accounts of people once they return back to, >> you know, the once the effects of the DMTs wore off, they talk about being so at one with that place despite the fact that they've never >> physically or spiritually been there before. So it is is quite interesting I suppose on the the kind of like the the push back from more of a scientific standpoint. Um they would just attribute this psychedelic is just hallucination.
It's just interfering with the electrons within your brain.
>> Obviously you've you've dedicated your life to this now. So what would your kind of statement be on that that the the scientists are trying to insinuate oh the reason this is happening you're not actually enter another realm it's just playing >> playing cuckoo with your brain sort of thing. What's your take on that?
>> I mean I I met so many scientists that they were like they've never done psychedelics but they were studying psychedelics and then I told them in person I was like that's like talking about sex when you're a virgin you know [laughter] good analogy.
>> Yeah. you need to have that experience and then and I also have met those scientists again when they um when they had so I asked them they they told me that they never had this experience they're like oh it's just hallucination hallucination entities don't exist just your mind making that up and then I then met them again when they had their first IASA trip they completely changed they were like completely new person they were like they told us that they they they met the entities and they can't describe the experience and they can't talk about this scientifically because scientific community will cast them out you know call them the witches you know and >> are there any outliers in that are there any who have spoke about it >> yeah I mean uh I don't want to give some names yeah you don't need to but some some of the you know like the top scientists in the psychedelic psychedelic world I've known them for over a decade I know I know them I I knew them before they had their psychedelic experience they spent maybe like five 10 years like studying psychedelics without having any psychedelic experience and I know them before and after they completely to change and then because the industry and the world has changed as well and now most psychedelic scientists like they're open to talk about their psychedelic experience. So it's more like widely accepted.
>> Mhm. I think a lot of that as well I mean scientists as a whole um are generally for the most particularly those that are in the public eye can be attributed as mouse mouthpieces >> for the mainstream. And obviously the mainstream sort of taps into psychedelics as kind of because a lot of people say that they have psychedelics and it helps with their depression, helps with their anxiety, they have a new lease on life.
>> And if they're able to do that through organic means, you know, through Iawaska, through DMT, >> then that eliminates a lot of big pharmaceuticals providing prescription tablets, prescription medication. So wherever there's money involved, obviously they've done this quite a political statement, but wherever there's money involved, there's generally a control element and that's probably why some of your scientist friends don't want to speak about it as well as being cast out. They'll be ostracized. They'll probably never ever get employment again working within that industry. And it is such a shame. I mean, you know, when I have conversations, it's it's it is a common thread, a common theme that happens throughout all the discussions I have, obviously with the likes of Graeme Hancock, who has these theories and hypothesises around lost civilizations and opening up more ideas about our past and it just gets shut down by academia.
And it's very frustrating because I feel as though we should be in a point now in society where we've got so much knowledge, so much understanding of of chemistry, physics, biology, religion, >> spirituality even. Why are we not more open-minded as as as a species? That that always frustrates me. And who's to say, you know, these could be wrong? You know, people could say you could go to another realm and it might not be accurate, but if you're not willing to to try it out or speak about it, you're never going to find out, are you?
>> Yeah. I mean, I always say like if you if you haven't experienced something, don't make any comments about it, you know, like because your comments are coming from a place of not a direct experience like you know, I never done a bungee jumping. I can't talk about it, you know. And so the same with the psychedelic experience. So when materialist scientists when they hear these experiences, of course they will call it a hallucination. Of course they will say it's just brain chemistry. He's just tripping. I'm like okay. I'm like here is a DMT way pen.
>> You can invest 10 minutes of your life.
Take three big talks and let's talk about this afterwards.
>> Anyone can invest 10 minutes.
>> 100%. And I think as well my my sort of if if I had the opportunity to have this conversation with a scientist a mainstream scientist my my sort of push back on that would be and one could argue what do you know Hodgej but what does that scientist know about consciousness? probably very very little. They might know some of the functionality of the brain, but they don't know why why we're here, why we have free will, why we have rational thought, why we have we they don't understand that because we know so very little about it. So there is an argument for people like yourself who who do psychedelics who probably are learning more about consciousness than these scientists because you're exploring that because you can't you know I know some people go into a meditative state and they manage to to visit these these realms and see these entities but a lot of people need DNT or they need a substance that's able to enhance that for them. But at least you're >> exploring the options.
>> Mhm. Whereas I think just having this like you said there if you've not experienced this you shouldn't really have an opinion of course but until like for instance I've never done psychedelics so I couldn't possibly sit here and go you're hallucinating because what do I know if I've done it and I still have that thought process then maybe but as someone who's not done it.
I think I suppose where where I'm getting to with this this verbal diarrhea is basically these these scientists are they know very little about the thing they're talking about as in consciousness so why should they shut it down completely um it's like I mean they like they also have like their own research you know which is really valuable but it's like like you know like I was saying they shouldn't I I believe that they people should make comment not just scientists you know people should make comments based is on the experience. You know, you shouldn't talk about stuff that you haven't experienced. So, and the word that like I I really don't like the word hallucin hallucinogenics because when you call it a hallucinogenics, you're completely, you know, like um destroying the whole experience. You're just like, you know, putting it into a box. You're saying that like this is hallucinations.
No, they could be, you know, psychedelic means, you know, um in the in the Greek it's like expansion of the mind. So, when you change the term to psychedelic, you're actually saying that like these experiences do not make you halistic.
And these experiences help you expand your mind and show you like Aldo Sax say what's more to reality. It's like the internet you know like we are surrounded by the internet right everybody uses it but yet no one can point at where the internet is.
>> People say it's it's in the cloud. I'm like yeah point at we can't see it. You need a device to connect to it. So your mobile phone your computer when you use the device you connect to this other realm. You can go on Instagram. You can interact with each other. Without that device you can't connect to it. But perhaps we can use this allegory and then think that maybe we are surrounded by other dimensions and our brain is capable of connecting to them but you just need to ingest certain you know chemicals to change your brain chemistry then fine-tune your brain to those you know real realms and again this then makes us question like is consciousness generated in the brain or is the brain like a receiver of consciousness like when your mobile phone you break your mobile phone doesn't affect the internet you just get a new mobile phone and then connect to the internet. So internet is always there but your phone is just a vessel. I personally based on my personal experiences and my research I am leaning towards that the the fact that you know the brain is a receiver of consciousness and you can fine-tune it to to different realms. So when you take the empty, you actually fine-tuning your brain into these other realms that inhabited by these other worldly intelligences. And I think this is again what prophets, you know, alchemists and magicians have been doing for thousands of thousands of years.
>> So I suppose to kind of put that in layman's terms, um, and I'm I'm paraphrasing David Ike here, but he he addresses it as the we're biological computers. So he always uses the analogy if you had a radio, you probably tune it and you have radio one.
>> If you tune it another way, you have radio two. If we're if you use that analogy that we're the radio in this instance and consciousness is just something that we're picking into. So as we're talking now, we're tuned into radio one, this our reality. But if you have something that allows you to tune into another station, that's where you enter the psychedelic realm.
>> Yeah, I I agree completely with that.
I've just sort of reemphasizing your point there. Can I add something by the way like the the about archaeologist also? I agree with what everything you said. I just remember that I want to add one thing. The the the issue with archaeology is that you know archaeology studies ancient Egypt, ancient Maya, you know, ancient Sumeriia. And yet most archaeologists refuse to take psychedelics. You know, they're like, "Oh, no, that's just hippie deep stuff.
We don't want to hallucinate, you know, we don't want." And I'm like, "Yeah, but like you're studying the entire Egypt.
like you know this this civilization was around longer than us and they carved the psychedelic plants on their walls.
So when Egyptologists say that oh you know when they look at the hieroglyphs of um of of Egyptian you know pharaohs next to Egyptian deities but the pharaohs are holding blue lotus you know Egyptology mainstream Egyptolog they say they like blue lotus because they're like smelling the other I'm like no mate have you tried smoking it [laughter] you'll understand what's why they painted that you know the blue lotus next to those deities and like Egyptian tree of life is acacia tree acia tree contains dime Metal trip and Dennis McKenna made that connection and you look at the ancient Maya you have the mushroom gods you know always like these other worldly beings are offering mushrooms and you look at the Sumeri you have the you know carvings of Syrian ru so all the civilization we're trying to study them but like we're missing the main point you know the the missing the key like we we need to archaeologists need to experience need to go through these experiences maybe host ceremonies in these temples to understand what's the function is it's like you know future generations finding our mobile devices but not using the electricity you know to to to to turn it on you know I think that's what's really missing and that's why I love our common friend Graham you know he is the modern day Indiana Jones you know he goes to places he works with the psychedelics you know he experiments he never speaks about anything unless he experienced it that's why I love that guy >> so and and I think he needs he's like an you know an example a role model for modern day archaeology ology. Hopefully more archaeologists uh will step into uh this area of being more experimental.
>> Mhm. Yeah. Graeme's a modern day scholar. I mean the quite right everything he talks about he he's he's got receipts for his comments. He goes out there on the field. He puts himself in the firing line. He he experiences these things and he he's a pioneer. Um and he's someone particularly in this space who I think everyone kind of looks up to him. Even some archaeologists, you know, like your friends who who don't want to admit that they've had >> alternative experiences in another psychedelic realm. I think there's a few archaeologists who are friends with Graeme, but they don't want to be public. And again, I think that just ties into what we said before bit like using the example of of big farmer. It's because there's a it's narrative driven.
It's money driven. And whenever there's there's money and and a narrative and a story, there becomes control and then it becomes political. My my sort of thing on that with with archaeologists is they study these sites and they attribute the deities and the designs and everything with with religion. Now, one could argue that religion, and I I put all religions in this category, the way they're articulated and the way they're described could be the same way you could describe a trip in some capacity, particularly with Hinduism. But I think all religions on that. But yet archaeology will respect religion as a belief system, as a protected characteristic, as something that we've got to respect. We've got to adhere to.
But then when anyone else poses another suggestion that's independent from religion, it's it's completely dismissed. And I always find that that just screams of hypocrisy. Like you can't just favor >> religious groups because you know you want to be seen to be doing good. But then when someone else puts it because with with religion as well is that stemmed from somewhere, >> you know, it wasn't just a case of one day someone just decided I'm going to make all this up. There's got to be something that that that started that created it. The simplicity that then went into complexity. Now modern day religions, there's a lot of political endeavors and I do think over centuries it's been manipul. I mean ju just Christianity alone um you know the Jesus Christ who I do believe did exist he was very reminiscent to that of Buddha you find God from within the father son holy spirit is just like Buddha eating a state of nana he never told anyone to worship or go to church in fact that only got introduced by the Romans who crucified him and then they created the Vatican and and that's kind of like the religion we we know as Christianity today but again >> that stemmed from something that was and made into complexity over over time through political means and monetization means because a lot of people don't know that the Romans had their own pantheon of gods. They had Jupiter, Mars, Saturn.
They they they had their own but they seen the popularity Jesus Christ had when he passed.
>> We want a bit of that and then adopted that. So I think the the religions as we know it as a construct today is not true to source material. And I think how you kind of help bridge that gap is potentially through these psychedelic experiences. And that's just me coming at it from a neutral perspective because when you when I start I think I said this to you off camera as well. The more I go down this rabbit hole, the more I say that science and spirituality are too far away from one another.
>> They're the say they're exploring the same thing. But there's so much to unpack and I love it. I love it. I love it. I'm just like I was [clears throat] like um I will tap into every single one of them. So yeah, I think science and spirituality and religion they are exploring the same things. The mysteries of the universe, one turns it into print, another one turns it into tools.
And as Ronald Ronald D said, you know, magic is science yet to be understood.
100 years ago, it's a great quote, you know, and 100 years ago flying from Europe to America was just a magic. But now today it's you know day-to-day activity you know it's just we don't really even like see the magic in it. We have devices in our pocket that it gives us access to the global knowledge. I can send my thoughts to the other side of the planet. This is digital telepathy for the lack of a better word but we don't see you know how magical this is.
So that's one thing. The other thing that I want to say is um you know the thing about religion. So you know it's like what I really love this quote is I always say when we talk to God it's called praying. Everybody does praying and it's widely accepted. But the moment I say last night when I was praying God talk back to me >> that's called schizophrenia. [laughter] >> Yeah.
>> If you have but if you can convince enough people to believe you that God talked back to you become a cult leader and they become your followers. And if you have millions of people follow you then that becomes a religion you know and and and I don't believe you know any prophet any you know alchemist they started this to become a cult leader they just had incredible profound experiences and perhaps like like I was saying they tuned in to that level of consciousness maybe god or entities they were talking through these people they became a channel you know this is what you know prophets or you know um alchemists are and they became a channel and then they their in their inspiration was so powerful that it lasted for many many many centuries and the going back to you know Jesus I also believe that Jesus was a real figure I'm still reading and and doing you know um researching what I find really interesting is um during the time that Jesus lived you know the Jerusalem was under Roman occupation and then there was one thing that Romans did was um they would allow you to practice your religion as long as you uh you respected Roman gods. Um there was only one group that didn't do that was the you know the Jews and and because Jews were believing in the Yahweh and I think Jesus was part of that and and he was like a rebellious symbol. So they had a they had a Jewish rebellion against the Roman occupation of Jerusalem and I forgot the name of that group but I think Jesus was part of it and he was probably also crucified because of the political reasons because they will put you on the on the cross uh because you know if you were either if you stole something or you rise against the Roman Empire. So I always say that you know when Jesus comes back he will have the the worst PTSD you know seeing all his followers you know like carrying the the the cross but then but I think he was a real figure and then there's 18 years missing in Jesus's life and in that time there are some academics say that Jesus actually traveled to India then drank s and learned the way of the Buddha learned the way of you know the the vics and then he also went to ancient Greece and also drank the kaikon which he was this um psychedelic proof that they were drinking at Elisinian mysteries and then he took all those knowledge and he you know experienced the psychedelic experiences probably met God you know and and then brought it back to Jerusalem and I think the chalice that you know there's so many images of Jesus offering this drink that the communion I think was like in the ancient times was you know psychedelics and so they were like either eating mushrooms or they were drinking this drink and meeting God you know like eat this and meet my father you It was like so and and I think this is also how Christianity you know um started spreading all across the world really fast because they were like literally giving people direct experience of like this is like how today you know fast forward thousands of years I think today's psychedelic movement is is what is going to become a religion because you can talk to people about certain things but it's hard to change someone's mind unless you give them a direct experience and what is more powerful than you of a psychedelic experience like I can't talk to you about entities but until you experience entities you know it's like but not you by the way just specifically but like you know I think Jesus and the initial Christians cuz the Christianity spread so fast I think they were like probably like doing these ceremonies and you know opening people's minds and then connecting them to Yahweh to gods to other entities and obviously people were like oh holy holy [ __ ] you know this is incredible and then they then started spreading because if you look at the the early Christian painting things like there's lots of paintings of Jesus like offering mushrooms. You see Jesus is coming back to Nazareth with you know surrounded by mushrooms. There is a >> there is there is a story Richard Dawkins talks about it um I think it's I think the title of it Jesus was a mushroom. Have you familiar with that one and that's based on what you're alluding to >> the sacred mushroom. Yeah. So yeah, definitely it's not just about and Jesus, you know, when they go to like in in Turkey in Capadocia, we have the one of the first paintings of the, you know, the last last supper and and the angels and because after the crucifixion of Jesus, the Christians were pushed to Anatolia and they were seeking refuge there and in an in Capadoc, they painted angels and there lots of angels with coming down from the heavens with mushrooms in their hands. I'm a painter myself. I don't paint random stuff like you know everything you put on on the uh on your painting has a s symbolic representation and Jesus wasn't alone.
So when you look at for example Moses like [snorts] you know he first experiences God in a burning bush and we know where that you know event took place in it's on it took place in on Mount Sai in today's Egypt and when you look at the plantation of that mountain and the the most dominant plant species is acacia trees and acacia tree contains dimethylryptamine DMT. So what are the chances that in in Bible and they it talks about this story where Moses meets God for the first time in a burning bush on a mountain that is covered by acacia trees. So I'm like when you put all the puzzle pieces together like you know it's like a wink from the universe I think and you look at you know Islam for example you know a lot of people don't talk about this but like I was born and raised in Turkey. We were told that before prophet Muhammad they were worshiping idols and prophet Muhammad came and destroyed those idols and showed them the the the way of Allah.
And I did a lot of research about this.
I was like because in my psychedelic experiences I saw the beautiful fractal pattern of of the Islamic you know mosque dome after my in my DMT injection at the imperial college. I for the lack of a better word I met God in that experience and I saw this beautiful patterns and I had this in urge to go to mosques in Turkey and I when I went to the mosque I kneel down and I started crying I'm like I don't understand what it is but I know in my bones that this is connected to these experiences this is not a drug experience this is a mystical experience activated by plants and you know and and intro then I started doing research about this and what I found out was that those idols that we were told that they were dest that they were destroyed were actually they belong to a goddess called Al Utsa.
She was the goddess of you know the the warriors and her uh her um her special sacred plant was acacia. Again you find acacia there and then they even had like three ancient acacia trees across the the Middle East which were then cut down. So you keep you and then some even said that some sources argue this is not a fact still I'm doing research on this but the the aluta temples were built next to the acacia trees and they were painting their visions in them and then when and then they were then converted to mosques. This is just a theory it's not a you know a fact but what I find really fascinating is that wherever there is the you know the beginning of religion you always find psychedelics.
There's always psychedelics there. And for me is like I think what we lost in our civilization and modern society is like a touch with the you know touch with nature. I think the way the nature talks to us is through these plants you know we we think the plants don't have any consciousness but no like during during acacia tree you will see how plants talk to you how this plant spirits how nature talks to you and and all the people that I met you know that have had psychedelic experiences like after that you feel more connected to nature to mother Gaia to to to mother earth and I think that's like one thing that is missing in our material driven society do we need more cy psychedelics in our society. I will say so, but I wouldn't it's not the ultimate way, but it's one of the most powerful ways.
>> The psychedelics, coaching is for sure in that. You you part a lot there. The psychedelics of particularly the the most potent ones like you've referenced there in in religious history. [snorts] These were created by the earth which in turn created us. And I think particularly when we go back to our ancient ancestors, they didn't have all the distractions we've got. They didn't have they certainly didn't have the internet. They didn't have, you know, it was very minimalistic what they had. So for instance, let's put it in layman's terms cuz I like keeping things nice and simple. Is if you're a teenager now, what you going to do to pass time? You probably play video games. You probably go out on socialize. You know, drink alcohol. you know, you do all the things that we've embedded into society in this in this modern era. Back then, you you wouldn't have had any of those options.
So, if you knew that by eating this this plants could take you on a journey, you didn't really have anything else to do, then of course that's >> that's what you do. You know, that's what you do to pass time. And that also ties in as well when you start introducing the the cosmos as a whole.
You know, we we talked about you've referenced Egypt a few times, but um all these sites around the world, they they are equinultural monuments, the monuments to the solstesses. Obviously, in Egypt alone, Robert Bevel and Graeme Hancock have studied relentlessly the Orion constellation with the free pyramids. Now, we're not saying that these are 100% accurate, but the reason why societies were able to be so in tune with the stars is because they had nothing else. So when you start looking at the cosmos and then psychedelics as well, that's probably how they >> pass their time. And I I I would wager that's also how religion was formed as a concept. And you know, we we've talked about >> various different religions there. And I think a lot of the religions have just been so intertwined with politics that now religions are predominantly see I mean it is changing somewhat now but I think certainly when I was growing up I subscribed to the likes of your Christopher Hitchens, Richard Dawkins, Sam Harris the new atheist movement and I did for many years consider myself an atheist. One could argue I do now, but now I'm I'm more in the realms of agnosticism where I don't know and I certainly don't conform to any of the current religions as they stand in present day. But with having conversations like this with people like yourself Batawan and and other people I kind of more think to myself when I used that analogy before how science and spirituality are combined is you know let's look at the the concept of the big bang you know when you see the visual artist into that looks like something I would suspect you could see on a trip.
>> Yeah.
>> You know the the kind of just the the the whole abstract and the depiction of it. And then I'm just um I'm currently reading a book uh by professor Bichukaku which is called quantum supremacy. It's about three four years old now but that talks about quantum computing. And one of the things that really blew my mind that was referenced in it is >> in terms of scale that we know as measurements and we can't even measure this because it's we can only theorize this measurement. So it's called the uh the plant length. So that is the small that's like below subatomic in terms of s we we wouldn't be able to measure it but that's what we can obviously [snorts] I'm not smart enough to articulate it but the the math says that that's probably the smallest amount we can measure and have you scale that up to say like the cosmos so you have human size planet size solar system galactic and then eventually to the point of the most observable universe we are as close to the size of the universe as we are to the smallest thing we can measure. We're like in between somewhere, which is a pretty insane fact. And when you start talking about that and how trippy that sounds, >> that sort of how you can intertwine these these variables that again ties into what could potentially you could see on on psychedelics. I hope that makes sense because I've kind of tried to formulate some science into that. But to kind of summarize, it's we are as close to the smallest thing we could measure in principle than we are to the scale of the observable universe that we know.
>> We're just in in the middle.
>> Yeah. If if you had it on a scale, we'd be here, which is just insane. And I'm talking like from us being so so so so small to us being so so so so big. It's in between. It's 50/50.
>> But I think the the key word that you mentioned there was the measurable >> the measurable universe.
>> It's in principle. Yeah. We couldn't we couldn't physically do it.
>> I I love that because um my my [snorts and clears throat] whole approach to life changed when I when I accept the fact that we're tool making creatures. Like as we shape tools, they shape us and our understanding of reality. So the tools that allow us to to to invent all and and make all the scientific discoveries, they're great, but they can also be limiting as well.
But once you accept that then because you know an ant must have you know a totally different reality than ours like an ant colony you know in the middle of an Amazonian jungle. Would they know that we're having a podcast here now?
No. Or ants you know in in Liverpool they wouldn't know it either.
>> They might do might.
>> Yeah. But like you know and then when you can you know use the same allegory to to many other things you know these entities you know they they might have some other tools that or maybe they there are other tools that we haven't measured that we haven't discovered yet that gives us access to measuring you know consciousness. So um I will give for example I I want to talk about the the big bang that you said you know the big bang I I love I love a good theory I don't remember where I read this but like it's not my my theory but I know that like it said that every morning is a big bang cuz what is big bang is like you know there was nothing and then suddenly an explosion and then reality emerge. Every morning you open your eyes and that's your big bang you know that's the big bang of your reality. You open your eyes and you create this reality or you you tune into this reality and maybe a psychedelic experience. Boom. It's a big bang to that, you know, other realm, a dream, you know, boom, that's your reality. That's a big bang. Like you are the big bang that, you know, you've been looking for and you're part of this reality. I I believe after my psychedelic experiences, you know, we are both everything and we're God itself, but we're also the player that is, you know, that is that's part of this journey. Do you buy into the simulation theory?
>> Um, yes. But like I said, you know, I think simulation theory is what's we have closest to, you know, to define reality because, you know, before like before computers like, you know, there was less thinking about the simulation theory. There were some, you know, like the Deakart talked about it and some Greek philosophers talked about it. But now that we have the movie The Matrix, we have the computer games. Obviously, you know, as a human being that when you're playing a computer game, you're like, does my character know that I control that? Then you I'm an animator.
Every time I was animating, you know, I would say I would be like I spent days animating these characters. Do they know that I am the one who's animating them?
Do they have an ecosystem in their, you know, world um behind this 2D flat screen? And then I I remember one day I was like, this was like around the time of my DMT injection. I remember I looked up back and I was like, how do I know that I'm not being animated, you know?
Um um where was I gonna go with this? I lost my chain of thoughts simulation theory. Yeah. So >> if we so far we have these tools that available to us that makes us question that could we then be living in a simulation? I think could it could be but like if you look at the religion religious text it sounds like we live in a simulation and the god is like the omnipotent creator the server you know that knows everything that goes through your mind through your brain. Um but we we might discover a new technology, new device that will make us question everything and then that we never thought about like for example a good example of this is like I think like a couple of hundred years ago you know before we invented the microscope there were some scientists that suggested that there was an unseen world on the surfaces that contained bacteras and viruses which caused all these you know the pest or or like the the the diseases that you know middle-aged People were dying from those scientists were cast out of the scientific community. They were laughed at and few years later when we discovered microscope which was a device that allowed us to see that unseen world then everything shifted then so again we're tool making as we shape tools they shape us and our understanding of reality. So yes, we might be living in a simulation but tomorrow we might discover a new tool that will make us completely you know change our understanding of reality and maybe in 100 time years time we'll discover another tool that will change our so I was like one DMT trip told me and one DMT trip specifically told me like yeah you want to you want to know the mysteries of the universe let's go this way no no let's go that way no let's go this way and then DM told me it just goes deeper and deeper and deeper there is no end to it mate M it is it is one of those where you stop and try and process it and you just you just can't.
It's it's people can have ideas and suggestions. I mean you know there's that cliche thing where people get asked scientists get asked you know what's the meaning of life and they sort of and and I sort of do conform to this a little bit. I don't think it necessarily has a meaning. I think we create meaning and purpose >> how we live our lives. Um, but the more I kind of look into it, the more I [snorts] I mean, the simulation theory is a popular one because obviously it sounds very sci-fi, but I mean another one that sounds more sci-fi, particularly with the introduction of the Marvel movies, superhero movies, is that of a multiverse.
>> And uh, obviously there, you know, that's incredibly science fiction. So try and suspend your disbelief when I put this to you. But I sort of look at a multiverse in a sense of different realms. So we talk about the DMT, the psychedelic realm. You talk about the the current one that we're in now.
>> And then >> if you if if you kind of looked, I think the best way I can articulate this, if you sort of looked at like a blank canvas now, and here's our universe, let's call it a ball, like a bubble.
Okay, the big bang sort of started from in between and went outwards and that's how he was formed. What if on that blank canvas there's other >> Yeah.
>> big bangs. What if now in an alternative universe there's Daniel Lodgees and and Basan Bintas having a conversation, but we're not talking about psychedelics.
We're talking about what we're going to have for dinner on a podcast, you know, and there's an infinite amount of variations of these conversations of us going on. I do think that ties in and then that ties in to what you're saying about, you know, going into other realms and and remembering things and feeling though even though you've never experienced it before, like Ganesha, what you said at the start, you remember that. Is that because you potentially tapped into that one of those universes where you did have a similarity with with Ganesha?
>> Oh, you mean like in a past life or something? Well, no. And and these universes are playing alongside one another. So, it's happening sort of our reality. But you mentioned about consciousness tapping in to were a biological computer. What if you've just happened to your frequencies tapped into that alternative battle and then you've quickly gone back, you know, like computers sometimes jutter, don't they? If the signal goes, it's a thought. It's it's I know it sounds wild, but it's always something that I've >> I'll give you a crazy example of that.
So, I have these jackets that um I painted for 10 years. And on the jacket, I'll send you a picture of this so you can put on podcast. For 10 years, I painted tan jackets. Each one had a landscape on it. And the landscape was a hill covered with mushrooms. And then there's a pot that takes you to the top of the hill. And at the top of the hill, there is the the dark side of the moon, Pink Floyd's pyramid. And there's a white light that comes, hits the pyramid, and then turns into a rainbow.
I love that symbol. It's like a new [clears throat] knowledge comes in, changes your mind. DMT comes in, changes your mind, and it was it's like the the hill covered with mushrooms, dark side of the moon. I'm a big Pink Floyd fan.
>> Oh, the great stuff.
>> Yeah. I painted this since 2013, 10 different jackets. And in um 2021, I was on the top of a hill um wandering around picking up mushrooms and and eating them, you know, and and then we were just like on top of and I was vlogging. I was filming everything. And then and I'm with two other friends. And then we at this in the middle of nowhere and then and sudden I started hearing Pink Floyd from afar and then I told my friends I was like >> just what song was it? Comfortably numb >> maybe. Yeah, it was comfortably numb.
Yeah. Yeah.
>> If that seems appropriate exactly what Exactly. That's true to that alternative.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And I would like to actually check the video and then confirmed about like I was like guys I can't I can't hear you. There is Pink Floyd. There's some like Pink Floyd live concert somewhere here. My friends were like, "But come on." Like, they knew me.
They're like, "You're Pink Floyd fan and we've been picking up mushrooms. Like, you know, it's like we're in the middle of nowhere. We know on the top of a hill. There's nothing around here."
Like, you know, what other chance there's a I'm like, "No." I was like, "Guys, I can't hear. There's a concert happening." And I was wearing one of those jackets. Again, I literally dragged these guys, took them down the hill, and as we were walking down the hill, I'm still filming everything. The the music started getting, you know, louder and louder. And then they were coming. Okay, there is a concert. And we we follow the music. We got to a place it says Satan's ours. [laughter] And then we walked in and inside this cave there was a live Pink Floyd triet band.
>> Wow.
>> And I was like, okay. I was like, did I manifest this because I've spent years painting this scene of a pink floor on top of a hill covered with mushrooms. or did I see this moment that was happening on a parallel dimension that then inspired me to paint this on my jackets for 10 years. Who knows? But for me that was like a big wink from the universe and and I told this to Merlin Sheldrake and I told him and then he said like that's a wink from the universe. I was like you just didn't call it wink from the universe. He's like why? I'm like because I also call it wink from the universe. He was like that's a double wink mate. [laughter] No, it it is it's fascinating and obviously I think man the word manifestation particularly in the social media age people sort of use it and >> they don't understand the core meaning of it but like what you've described there is you have been doing something continuously over and over again till eventually it has manifested before you whereas I think some people particularly these influencers online are very much oh I'm just going to sit here and manifest and hope that I become famous overnight. Yeah, it's a it's a taking accountability. But no, I I love stories like that cuz I mean one would say that that's just a huge coincidence. But I think we we we probably both agree that sometimes co when so many coincidences happen, they're no longer coincidence.
>> Coincidences where God hides itself.
That's what I you know that's what Graham Hanok says as well that coincidences is like how the universe speaks to you. And it's I think by focusing too much on the material world and calling it coincidence, we kind of like lost touch with the mystical magical side of reality. That's how the the world, the nature, the universe talks to you.
>> Mhm. No, quite right.
>> Um I think as well with nature, you're familiar with Paul Stallet? You must be.
Of course. So he uh he he's what his title called? I know it's to do micologist. That's the one. So it's the study of mushrooms or fungi. Um he has I think it was him and Terrence McKenna or maybe Terren McKenna came up with the idea. So the stoned ape theory with how we if I butcher this you can jump in but I think it's based on >> we were chimpanzees >> we came down and the reason why because we chimpanzees only have small >> brains and yet we just developed in such a short space of time the brains we've got today as homo sapiens and the thought process was that the um mushrooms grew in um animal fetus sorry to go graphic and the chimpanzees ate them had these psychedelic experiences, hence the term stoned ape.
And as a result of that, that helped grow our brains. So then we evolved into homo sapiens.
>> Is that right? Have I kind of summarized that to? So first of all, do you subscribe to that theory? Second of all, I want to know what your take is because Paul Stamut talks about fungus or fungi being so vital to our ecosystem and everything evolve from fungi. It's always fascinating whenever him and Joe Rogan have the conversations. Um, and obviously you you having mushrooms um quite frequently. Yeah, I suppose I'm I'm asking you multiple questions there, but do you subscribe to the stone date theory and what's your take on Paul Stamat's fungi?
>> Yeah, I 100%, you know, subscribe to the stone ape theory. I had a chance to meet Paul Stamat actually in person. Yeah, I had the chance to show >> because he doesn't do many public appearances. We've tried to reach out to him on this show and I'm getting >> he's an incredible human being. Yeah, I had the chance to meet him at breaking convention 2023 and at a different event in in 2024 and I have this virtual reality experience of a mushroom trip. I had this chance to give it to him and he was in tears because in the experience you meet Terrence McKenna at some point cuz I put him there because he inspired me a lot. Paul was in tears. He took the headsuit off. He was he was like he was like did you know that he Terrence was my friend? I was like Paul I'm a big geek. Of course, [laughter] I knew that, but I didn't know that he was going to.
>> It always makes me laugh when people who are incredibly famous don't realize [clears throat] how famous they are. I suppose it shows a level of uh how modest and humble they are. But [laughter] yeah, go on. So with Rupert Sheldrick, you know, Rupert Chel also said like, "Do you know Terrence McKenna?" He he was my friend like we and then I was like of I was like, "Rupert, I know you. I know Terrence."
Yeah. Like I'm a very big gig of your all your theories. Yeah. Um so yeah I met Paul in person incredible human being and I 100% agree with his theories you know most of theories about mycelium without mycelium we wouldn't be able to live you know and mycelium is like myelium is something that is so vital yet we don't really appreciate it as much you know um so we we think about like plants animals insects and mycelium has its own category like you know they're not plants they're not animals like they're like they're they're the mushrooms are just mushrooms. And what we see on the surface is actually just the reproductive organ of the real being cuz mushrooms appear for 5 days to spread spores to expand this mycelium network which is underground and the mycelium so vital to life because they are the ones that digest all the dead matter. If we didn't have mycelium like you know we will be dying from the diseases but mcelium consumes everything and the oldest living being on this planet is a mcelium network which is 2.3 billion years old. Imagine how much we achieve you know a life a normal lifespan of a human being today is 100 years. Imagine how much we achieve in 100 years and imagine how much you can achieve in 2.3 billion years. So who are we to say that we are the most intelligent species on the planet? Some theories even say that it could be that you know we are controlled by the mcelium. We are like the the moving you know the the the worker organ of the mcelium. Um because going back to that is what really fascinates me is that for 2.3 billion years mycelium have been um digesting all the dead matter and when you digest that matter when you eat something you take the protein of that being turn it into your own protein and turn it into your own DNA. So it's it's had a lot of time to study the living beings from plants to animals to insects and then somehow myceliums then came up with a compound called psilocybin which is the psychedelic compound in magic mushrooms that makes you trip and I find it really fascinating that I always question could it be that myelium then created this compound to give humans or to give you know monkeys this psychedelic experience and eventually helped us evolve into what we are today.
And so perhaps there's a theory, I don't know, do you know, I don't know the name of the theory, but the theory says that mushrooms came here from space, colonized the planet, and then now they are actually inspiring humans as it's, you know, um um of the call vehicle to build spaceships. So mushrooms can take off to [laughter] repeat and we know that, you know, the the spores mushroom spores can travel in space without getting any damage. So some theories say that you know that mushroom it was the first like mushroom sport that came to our planet fertilized the land broke down all the rock and then actually fertilized land and made it available then the life here started because of mushrooms and you know as above so below and what [snorts] I really love is like you know like humans like we have the sperm tin it's it's tiny compared to the the female egg and and when it when they meet each other in life you know starts and then and similar to you know mushrooms spores compared to planet is very small. So symbolically I see like you know almost like a mushroom sp is like a sperm that fertilizes the planets and then creates you know life there and then inspires humans to take off to go to other planets. Who knows if that's a quite you know science fiction but like we live in a time where science fiction is becoming science fact. Going back to the stone ape theory I 100% you know um believe that could be you know the that you know catalyze the evolution. If we want to say that you know if we accepted Darwinism you know the evolution theory because there's so many I think there is like a missing link in like you know what there was like there's like a spike of intelligence spike of you know evolution that we don't know how it started and mushrooms can be that missing link you know and uh cuz when you look at like um I don't want to sound like you know cocky or anything but like when you look at you know >> you're on the hodgecast you can go as ky [laughter] as you want mate >> like you know when you look at people who study psychist who have taken psychedelics like and you look at them like the ideas that they investigate they're very deep and intellectual and so I don't want to compare those you know people to you know people who don't take psychedelics but when you do you see that you know people that take psychedelics you can see the effects of how myelium you know have been like feeding their brain opening new pathways you know new neural networks and and making them I don't want to say more intelligent but like you know they're questioning more intellectual things and when you look at the the stone a theory.
It could be that you know that mushrooms actually helped us um develop this this intelligence. In fact, there is a new um scientific study in India. They're looking at different monkey species that there's one monkey species that started dominating the other monkey species and it turns out to be that that monkey species found out the psilocybin mushrooms. They go from the trees down collect the the the cilocy mushroom from the elephant dung and over a period of time the scientists studied them and they realized that those monkeys became more um uh how do you call smart they even like started like you know maybe like turning branches into tools and they became more like dominant and started uh dominating other monkey species a bit like in Stanley Cubri's 2001 you know the black monolith that gives you know intelligence to the monkeys so could it I personally believe that could be the case. Uh but who knows, you know, like I said, we'll discover a new tool that's going to, you know, give us another perspective.
>> I think the uh intelligence as as a concept, I think what [snorts] I mean, what is it? Our our definition of intelligence would be someone with a high IQ, someone who's wide read, someone who's well researched, but does that necessarily mean that someone's intelligence? Does you know when you when we we measure intelligence based on our human abilities? We're not including the animal kingdom in that. And you know, use the analogy, we're the only species that we know that thinks of the future all the time. We're constantly living in what we've done, where we're going.
That's why we're always developing things. If there was a dog in this room now, >> that dog doesn't give a [ __ ] about what it's doing tomorrow. All that dog's bothered about is when are you feeding me, when are you giving me love? It's a survival instinct. And most animals um only have that. Even plants, even fungi, you know, plants are they're born to they have photosynthesis so they can survive. That that's what it is. We are the only species who have this rational thought and we can think far ahead. So to to go back to the stone date theory to put the notion of psychedelics enhance that for us, I don't think that's a stretch. No. um you know because you you're measuring intelligence based on our definition of it not what intelligence probably probably could be. [snorts] >> Can I give you another thing?
>> Yeah, go for it.
>> So what really fascinates me is that you know the internet today is widely used now we have artificial intelligence. We have all these devices but when you actually study the history of global networks and computers um it goes back to the hippie times of 1950s and60s. So Steve Jobs, Bill Atkinson, uh Bill Gates, they were all hippies of in 1960s and they openly talked about and admitted the fact that it was the psychedelic experience that they had from LSD, from mushrooms that show them the human connectivity and it inspired them to create the the global networks and personal computers. Bill Atkinson, you know, one of the co-founders of Apple is the guy who's behind the design of the DMT wave pens. He released that before he died last year. Um so psychedelics were at the core of digital revolution that connected the entire planet. To me it's like when you look at it is like so the very thing the mushroom cuz myelium network is in in the ground and all the trees are connected to each other. They send each other signals nutritions and and chemicals through this mycelium network.
uh and it's that very mcelium network that connects nature that gave the mushroom that gave the initial inspiration to people like Steve Jobs to create the global networks. I don't think that's just a coincidence like what connects the nature then gave us the inspiration to connect the entire world. So what I where I'm going to is that like we should be humble in our you know in our technological achievements.
I'm a technologist. We achieve incredible things. But perhaps it's perhaps the the these global networks are actually what the nature wanted us to create. So mushrooms have inspired us to create global networks to connect the entire world. And now we have an a new intelligence that is emerging from it that we call the artificial intelligence. I don't think it's artificial. I think it's as natural as you know how bees build beehives. We built AI.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah.
Do you think psychedelics will help bridge the gap between science, religion, and our understanding of the universe?
>> 100%. Yeah. So, >> you're fully committed to that.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's the missing key, you know, cuz when you have a psychedelic experience, like I didn't understand what Plato tried to say with like the only thing that I know is I know nothing.
>> Mhm.
>> And then when I had my full-blown DMT experience, DMT told me forget everything you think you might know. And then because once you experience that when you come back you're like okay I just met these entities I met the gods I met this okay what else is out there it really humbles you. Would it be fair you just said there it humbles you. I think a lot of the time people don't want to accept when they're wrong. They don't want to take accountability. There's a lot of pride. There's a lot of ego. And I mean I I've kind of re This is why I'm warm into the idea of trying psychedelics because I think I've got to a point in my life now. So, I said off camera, one of the reasons I've put it off for so long is I like being in control.
>> And I feel I know you mentioned that it doesn't you don't always have to let go, but >> I feel as though for me to to get the full experience of it cuz I don't know whether I'd do it more than once. Who knows? Never say never. But I feel as though I'd be too I don't want to let go me faculties. I want to be in full control.
>> Um, [snorts] >> so sorry. The point I was kind of getting to there is I think a lot of people who do psychedelics, it removes the ego from them. Was that was that would that be a fair assumption? It removes because then they're more comfortable in accepting that they >> the unknown >> the unknown. I've kind of got to this place now and I think it is through doing the podcast. I think it is getting the opportunity to meet some inc I mean I'm I'm I still blows my mind some of the people I've I've had sat in front of me sat where you are now talking to me who I've followed and researched for years. So I do I am in a very privileged place to be able to do that. Uh but I think since starting this I've got to the point now where I quite like accepting being dumb for the human sort of you know we talked about what what is intelligence I quite like learning new things was the Daniel Hodges of say five six years ago >> I'd have probably been like oh yeah yeah I knew that I didn't know that but you want to perceive that you know what you're talking about whereas now I'm quite happy to sit here you ask me a question and go I don't know I haven't got the answer for that so that's why I kind of >> would warm to doing psyched Adelics now.
Um, but I feel as though a lot of people >> Are you a boxing fan?
>> Boxing fan?
>> Boxing.
>> Boxing is in the sport of boxing. Yeah.
So, there's a there's a boxer, Deontay Wilder, um, who dominate the heavyweight division. I' arguably one of the hardest punches for many years. Um, but always had an ego about him, a bravado. He called himself the bronze bomber. He didashka multiple times and he said that it removed his ego but in turn he then was no longer this devastating boxer and he's been beat numerous times. I think he has just recently won a fight but anyway I digress. The point is he's kind of he's lost his ego >> but this he's now lost his his capabilities to be that destructive fighter. Does that kind of do you find that you can use your own lived experiences on this I guess do you find that you lost I mean you did psychedelics when you was quite young as well. Yeah. So you'd have been in your prime of having an ego. One would have thought when you're young you think you can rule the world. Um >> how did you find that with your ego?
>> I mean uh you mean like how like psyched gave you like an ego boost or >> Oh well did it remove it? Did it extrapolate it or did you >> I think it's not just like you know psychedelics like since you gave the example of boxing for example I do Muay Thai you know but if if there is like I you know psychedelic experiences are great but like they're not the only thing that you know gives you this you know humbleness like for me is like when I go to my Muay Thai gym like when you hit in the bags you think you you are the man you know you're the but when you go to sparring you see that there are guys that you know you can beat but there's always someone better than you and that humbles you that feeling absolutely completely humbles you. You know, combine that with psychedelics and like understand that the only thing that you know is you know nothing and that just humbles you. doesn't mean that you don't know anything like you know just accepting that like you know knowing what you know but also accepting that there's so many other things that you know you don't know >> but there are there I need to also accept like you know there are in in this community industry you know there are you know lots of like spiritual gurus you know self-made shamans that you know after smoking first DMT like you know they then become the gurus they just like proclaim that you know x y z so there are there's a bit of that spiritual ego um I don't know I might also like you know I don't think I have a you know the ego of like you know like I know everything like I like you say like you know if I don't know something I would accept that you know like Graham Hanok but I might also appear you know egotistical to some other people I can't control that the only thing I can control is is who I am and and who I know that I am and if I make a mistake if I break someone's heart if I feel that I'm egotistical then um then then I will work on it in fact I I'll give you an example uh my second last DMT experience which was very traumatizing um I think it it became traumatizing because it came from my bit of you know psychedelic ego. So in 2020 I had this psychedelic experience as a DMT trip uh where which was so traumatized that put me off all psychedelics for three years.
But at the beginning of the trip like we were like given the DMT by this um shamanic practitioner and then I inhaled DMT like three or four times and then my psychedelic ego was like come on Banan you are the psychedelic cowboy. You could do better than that. You could take another hit. you could take another hit. I was like, "Yeah, of course I can take another hit." And I went for the fifth one. And as I was falling down, I was like, "No, my god, this is not going to be good." And it was just like blasted into this, you know, hyperspace.
And it was a very very very a traumatizing experience. And cuz I think what was really traumatizing like you were you touched upon is the the the control. I tried to control the trip because it was so overwhelming. My let's call it that my soul was trying to leave my body go to the ethereal world but my rational mind was like going like this is too crazy you need to stay here. It was really funny. My mind was telling me all the computer games that I was playing like you're about to hunt, you're playing these games, you're like whereas my soul was trying to go to other place like almost like my ego was trying to keep me here >> and because I was in this limbo and I got stuck in this limbo and it felt like a purgatory. There was no past, there was no future, there was just eternal love but it felt like hell and it was so dark that like that it put me off and then and then I met this being there and it said to me like we've shown you enough we don't want you here anymore.
go back and your job is in the material world. And I made a pack with it. I was like, "Okay." Like, "Please let me go back. Please let me go back. I'm not going to touch this anymore." And then I came back and it for three years I remove all my psychedelic books, unfollow people on social media, didn't talk about psychedelics whatsoever until I was invited to that conference where I met um we had the chance to meet Paul Stamat >> and then I then came back and then I found out you know so many other researchers also had the same thing. So um going back to the control Terrence McKenna gave a really good example and he says that bad trips happen because people don't take enough cuz if if you if you don't when you when you take more than enough psychedelics when you don't have a return button then you don't have any chance other than going blasting into the other world and fully experiencing it. And it's a bit like, you know, but I I wouldn't recommend, you know, don't do this at home. You know, if you want to do it like do it with a shamanic practitioner, someone that like like if you want to go to space, you go with an astronaut who has been there before. And a shaman is the astronaut of the, you know, this other d, let's call them psychonaut, psychedelic astronauts. So, it's a little bit like, you know, you can do a bungee jump, but halfway through the jump, you can't be like, I want to go back. No, you're in it, mate. Just go with it and trust that you're safe. you know you're like and that that the robes are like the shaman someone who is guiding you who is there to you know facilitate you so I would say that you know for to begin with for you if you want to experience it or for anyone they're like working with a shaman working with a clinical institute for example at imperial college you know when we're injected with DMT I would not recommend anyone to do it at home but like if you're in a clinical setting where you know hospital you know you have doctors obviously you know that's a very clinical setting it's not like an Iawaska you know ceremony But still you deep down you know that if anything happens here they'll look after me you know and that security then allows you to just let go.
>> But also the doors that they were giving like didn't give me a chance to choose whether I want to let go or not. I just had to let go without even realizing that I was letting go. So yeah if you're going into it you should go with a full you know full um full focus and and you know it's like halfway through a meditation you don't start thinking about other things. you know, you're there to meditate and and I think after those experiences, like I've always been like okay with the unseen and the mystery, you know, and um and but I did have moments where like I also wanted to, you know, like try to control the you know the the trips especially like if I felt the the the the presence of a dark being which happened to me once I met this dark entity and entity was like this is my realm you don't know uh how to navigate it but we so we'll take advantage of you and I was like oh my god how can I stop this and this entity was trying to go inside my body as crazy as it sounds um but like um at that moment I tried to control it but then I couldn't and at the time I saw this another entity that was sold that kept on coming to me in my DMT trips in fact there was a period where I didn't want to do DMT because I was scared of this entity and then the next time I did it I saw this demon like from like in the Hindu gods I saw the entity coming towards me I was like damn I was like, I shouldn't have done this. It's coming again. And then, but this time instead of like, you know, how Neo turns into, you know, to agent Smith, I was like, I said to this time, I'm not afraid of you. I've been afraid of you up until now. I tried to control the trip. I turned against it. I was like, and I went towards the entity. The entity then became love >> and and I realized that it was just like a like a test, >> a facing your fears type.
>> Exactly. Yeah. It was facing the fears.
So you know and those experiences they then they then reflect on your you know life like for example I was I always want to go into fighting like learn fighting but I was scared of you know fighting gym then one day I was like I'm getting older I need to do this I need to start somewhere you know and I put my pants on went to the fighting gym started then I realized that like it's actually okay you know it's not like bad it's a bit like you know I always give the example of be in the summer before jumping into the water or before jumping the cold plunge and your mind goes like, "Oh, it's going to be cold. It's going to be this." Your mind is actually scared of the change. But once you jump in the water, after 5 seconds, you're okay.
>> Same with like the psychedelic trip. You know, after you jump, it's like t mechanism say you're scared of the the unknown, but like once you jump into unknown, you realize that it's just it's a bed made of feathers.
>> Yeah. Feathers. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I know. It's interesting. And I suppose it's it's quite right. I mean, it's it's leaving your comfort zone, isn't it? and being able to to adapt to things. I love the analogy of the uh the getting in the cold water cuz whenever I call plunge that's that's I've got to fully immerse myself otherwise if I dip me toe I'm out. I'm not doing it. So yeah, I just fully go in with it. Um just kind of like as we come to a close to this, there's one thing before I ask you the final question. Um there's one thing I want to get your take on. So I'm big on the whole UFO phenomena stuff >> and uh Hal Putoff, I don't know if you're familiar with him. He's he's a UFO. So, he's been involved in like the CIA and uh I think he was part of Scientology as well for a spell. He recently went on Diary of a CEO, which was quite unusual for him to go on um Steve Artlet, but he seems to be branching into other things now. Or it probably was cuz Trump's released a load of >> UFO files. Um, but he said on Diary of a CEO, which has gone global news now, that these alien encounters that people see, there's four different types of of entities, species, >> and I'm pretty certain you've probably seen all of these on one of your experiences with psychedelics. So, those are reptilians.
>> Mhm. Insecttoids usually depicted as your mantises, grays, so they the stereotypical alien and then Nordics which are kind of like your giant angelic human type figures.
>> So when we was talking about before I subscribe to it being more interdimensional than extraterrestrial.
[snorts] >> You can't help but draw the parallels between what people are saying who've been abducted by aliens are also very similar what they've seen to people on psychedelic experiences. Do you think there's a crosspollination there?
>> Yeah, 100%. Yeah. Like did we mention in the podcast or before, I don't remember, but like a lot of alien encounters happen at night time.
Yeah. Melatonin is the sleep hormone very similar to DMT. And when you compare people's like alien abduction experiences to DMT experience, entity encounters, they're very similar. So you just put need to put the puzzle pieces together and see that like could it be that it's the indigenous DMT release that gives us access to these other realms and then feel like we abducted by aliens. Um yeah so what was the question again?
>> So I was just asking do you think there's there's a definite crosspollination between alien encounters and DMT encounters? I think you know expecting aliens to come to our planet on flying saucers in a spaceship that I think like that comes from like human ego like because we are like okay if there's another alien species out there they must have more sophisticated planes you know no if they're alien they must be very alien you know it's like the way they communicate with us must be also very alien as well you know it's like so like they they travel through space but then like they crash to our planet you know someone that I know I called Anton Bilton. He says that you know he just travels through the space and then crash on our planet. So like um that I find it really really you know quite funny. Um and uh so definitely I think the aliens that we're looking in space they're actually among us. They're in a parallel dimension. in a different you know wavelength and instead of like sending million you know like the rockets to space and spend millions of dollars I think we should like spare some money from those like you know uh research and put them into the psychedelic research and actually look at like the power of the mind you the power of consciousness >> hasn't hasn't in the states the FDA have introduced something now Rogan was a big pioneer for this so they basically to help combat sort of mental health and depression I may be butchering this I've not got facts in front of me. Um but they have decid could we pull this up potentially JP if you just pull up Donald Trump Joe Rogan FDA psychedelics should be the top news article but yeah while he's searching for that um they they've put together the um basically where they're now encouraging now for for because they've got um the Kennedy Robert Kennedy who's the health secretary over in the states he's big on holistic organic sort of means so he's advocated edited this as well. Um, and is that the news article?
Have you got it there? Trump joined by Joe Rogan as he signed order to speed up psychedelic review. So, yeah. So, it looks like they're introducing it in in the healthcare. Probably similar to what you did with the test. They're now reintroducing that to help combat certain mental health. So, it does seem to be going in in that direction. One would one would >> you know what's funny in that? So, so pharmaceutical industry they're very interested in psychedelics. But you were saying [clears throat] >> this is an industry and and sick people are their customers. So by curing people they actually lose customers. So pharmaceutical industry makes money by selling you drugs that you take daily.
So they heal you a tiny bit but then if they they still need to keep you on those drugs to make money. So basically you know but whereas Iawaska mushrooms they give you the therapy that normal therapy was or anti-depressant can't keep for in mean 30 years but what's really really fascinating and interesting is that the issue with the psychedelic therapy is the entity encounters. So like we know [clears throat] that you know DMT and other psychedelics they're really good for you know curing certain diseases but then you they science can't explain how people actually see these entities coming to them and fixing certain things like for example I have a friend called Stephano he is the founder of antioentence Peru I would like to connect you with him he's this you know incredible shaman from the Peru Peruvian mountains and he had Graham Hanok there and then Graham Hanok openly talked about his experience with him and And he saw the this serpentine octopus beings that went into Graham's brain as if they knew his issues with migraine and they not only like touched his brain but these entities go and like touch the part of the specific part of the Graham's brain and then tune them in and after that following that couple of weeks Graham apparently didn't have any migraines. Try to explain this with science. Another thing is he had a a woman coming to his retreats who was paralyzed on his leg on her legs. She tried spent her her whole life after the incident like to to cure her paralyzed legs. Nothing helped her. She goes to this retreat after 28 days of working with you know Iaska and then she meets this the same entity with octopus arms and and and they come and like touch the specific points. Now, if this woman walks >> like you can't >> if that's not religion in terms of miracles, I don't I don't know what is.
Batan, it's been fascinating chatting to you. I've really loved it. We're going to go for some food now, so you can maybe uh have some chats off camera, maybe name those scientists that you couldn't say while the cameras were rolling. Uh before we go, uh I've got one last question, but before I ask that, >> this is a chance for you to kind of tell everyone where people can connect with you. Have you got any projects, anything? the the state is yours mate.
>> Okay. Uh I'm Batan Bintage. You can find me on social media as Batanbintage or Cyber Alchemist. My website is batwanbintas.com.
Uh we have currently uh actually we just launched this week a a community called DMT Academy. It's an online community that you can subscribe to. We will be having weekly calls about people's entity encounters and we will be having lecturers and scientists from the psychedelic research every week and and joining us and I'll be also teaching AI animation skills for people to learn how to use these upcoming tools to materialize their psychedelic trips and and entities and we have a chat forum where you can meet other people.
Ultimately, we want to create a community, a safe space for people to feel like they can open up and find the others and not feel isolated. And another project that I've been working on, I've been working with Anton Bilton and and Thomas. And I'm I'm the lead AI animator of an upcoming DMT documentary.
That documentary is going to shake some shake the world and it's going to be really mind explaining Anton. He's an incredible person and and the documentary explores from science to religion to spirituality and entities and and you should check that out when it comes out. I can't that's I can't give more information about it but you're going to love it.
>> Awesome. Well, we will have all of that in the description anyway. Are you on YouTube? I am. Yeah.
>> Okay. Well, we'll we'll collab with you on this as well so people can easy get to your channel. Um and before we sign off, I asked this question to all the guests who are making the debut to the show. That is what is ch what does challenge mean to you? So what does challenge mean to batan vintas?
challenge is is is you know is change you know it's like if if you see a challenge in your life you know I would say go for it especi like whatever like whenever an opportunity comes to your life I think the universe thinks that and when whenever opportunity comes to your life and if you think it's a challenging opportunity I would say that trust the universe to understand that universe has been watching you for all these years and it believes that you're worth of that experience or you can handle that experience so I would say if you have an experience like that go for it and don't find it like challenging because at the end of a challenging experience there is the transformation and then and then I would always say that like never um compete with anyone the only person that you should be challenging yourself is yourself by competing with yourself to become a better person of yourself then you just evolve into a beautiful human being >> beautifully Paul thanks for your time today massively appreciated we're going to go for some food now I've been This has of course been the phenomenal Batawan Binthas and you've been listening to the Hodgecast. Take it easy. Well folks, if you made it this far, I'm going to take a wild guess and say that you enjoyed that conversation.
And if you did and you want to help us keep bringing you interviews like this, I've got one small favor to ask. And it won't cost you a single penny. Hit that subscribe button. It might seem small, but it makes a huge difference. More reach means a bigger platform and a bigger platform means bigger guests, bolder conversations, and more explosive topics to dive into. Here on the Hodgecast, we're all about high impact conversations that challenge narratives, expose truth, educate, and inspire.
Whether that's fitness, geopolitics, religion, science, history, mindset, philosophy, or the conversations you're not supposed to have, we'd love to have you along for the ride. So go on, hit that subscribe and let's take the Hodgecast to the next level.
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