In Heated Rivalry, Ilia's low self-worth and fear of rejection drive his obsessive behavior when he discovers Shane dating Rose, as he interprets Shane's relationship as confirmation that he cannot offer enough to be chosen, demonstrating how characters with insecure attachment styles often misinterpret others' actions through the lens of their own fears and past trauma.
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The Shelf-Aware Podcast: Episode 19 - The Club | Heated Rivalry Character AnalysisAñadido:
May the fourth be with you, by the way.
>> Yeah.
>> I can't believe your your programming didn't immediately kick in when I said, "May the Fourth be with you."
>> And also with you.
>> Is that what you're talking about?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, you say it in your head, but I think they stopped doing that at some point.
>> Wait, no, that's Twilight.
different different whole different thing.
I think it has changed. I haven't been in a while, but sorry. Catholic trauma, right?
>> They changed they changed up the script.
They changed up the script when I was in like high school.
>> Yeah. Got to keep you on your toes.
Got to keep you on your toes.
All right. So, we're back. We're back.
We're back. We're still in episode four.
We're still in episode four.
Club scene. Hallelujah.
It is not a hallelujah for me. Um, no, it's good. It's all fine. It all needs to happen. It's fine.
>> I like the pain and suffering in the name of it had to happen for them to be to end where they were at, you know?
>> Yes.
I can appreciate it.
I can appreciate it now at the time.
Traum traumatic traumatic truth.
>> Oh god. Okay. So, let's get into it. Let's rip the band-aid off. Let's do it. Where we last left off was Shane and Rose getting together at the bar. So, where we will pick up today is Ilia finding out about that information.
But first, the intro so we don't forget again. Hello. This is the Shelfaware podcast. I'm Ren.
>> And I'm Lizzie. And we are two lit obsessed sisters who like to talk about our favorite books, our favorite TV shows, our favorite movies and analyze them in significant amounts of detail as we have >> as we have shown over the this episode in particular. Before we dive in again, just a couple reminders. As per us one, we are mainly focused on the show. Um, we will call out a couple things. I think especially one of the things I know we we'll we'll talk about just kind of a difference between the folks in the show is like how Miles is presented. We will talk about that, but for the majority of the time we are focused on the show and what we're seeing on the show. So, just something to keep in mind there. And then two, as you guys know by now or if you're new here, this is not a spoiler-free zone. This is a Now, granted, we don't get into the long game, but we do make connections between this episode and future episodes. So, if you are not fully caught up, if you have not gone to the cottage yet, now's your chance to pause this and go to the cottage >> and then come back later.
>> Yeah, that's pretty much it. You guys know the drill. So, >> here we are again on episode five of episode 4. Yeah, this is Is this your favorite episode?
No, I can't say it is.
>> Six.
>> Um or five.
There's very specific scenes in four, five, and six that I >> am very attached to. And it's the same scenes that everybody's attached to, but there's like specific frames >> that I'm like really attached to. In this one, it's When you can see Ilia have the realization that Shane is probably somewhere in that's like the the split second you can see his whole face change. That >> in episode five it's when Shane tells him that he hired a stylist and he just breaks out into this gigantic grin. Like the process of him smiling is really good for me. Mhm.
>> And then obviously the holy grail of episode 6 for me is the she would have loved you like I loved you >> while they're sitting bathed in the sunlight.
>> Mhm.
>> So I can't say I like like any of those more than the other. I like them for different reasons.
>> Yeah, that makes sense. I that makes sense. I feel like there's a a moment in each episode that I will always stop what I'm doing and watch. But I think >> I think for me episode five is probably my favorite overall, mainly because of the amount of character development that takes place in episode 5. Um, I also love me some some self assured Shane, but I think it's like five for character devel character development, six for feels, >> six for the vibes.
>> Yeah, like I >> rewatch five and six a lot. But uh >> anyway, but it's like five is like >> you're on a roller coaster and f or no four is like your stomach like drops, right? Like you're and then five is the ascent to the top >> and then six is just a good ride. I think five is like like we've hit the we've hit we've hit peak and then now we're kind of in like some falling action and healing and growth and >> that's the good [ __ ] man. It's the best.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I love [ __ ] love episode five.
>> But before we can get there, we gota >> we got to get through what got us there.
So we have Yeah, we have nine minutes of television to cover today. I got this.
>> Vegas two. I'm going to like over under.
I'm going to take the over on two hours.
Okay.
Am I supposed to bet against that? Do you think it's going to be under? Would you bet that it would be under? No.
Doesn't work. Then we can't both be over. We both win.
No. Okay.
No, because there's a lot of stuff I want to talk about. So, let's get into it. Okay.
Okay.
So, anyway, so as we mentioned earlier, where we'd left off last time is Shane and Rose getting together. Um, we see them holding hands beneath the table and then the next scene we get is Ilia. Now, we spent all of last episode really talking just about Shane. We don't see Ilia for a while after the couch. We see Shane with his parents. We see Shane meeting Rose. And then so now we're finally coming back to Ilia and Ilia is at the gym with his teammates. And one of his teammates calls him over and he goes, "Ros, Ros, you got to see this.
You're going to [ __ ] man." And so he kind of starts coming over and he does, I think even to me at this point, seem subdued. like he's just like he's not like super cocky or showboaty like I mean and I don't know >> like he's not like that all the time but he already to me seems like kind of subdued.
>> Um and so he kind of walks over and they're like show them. And so he takes a look at the phone and he immediately kind of takes the phone >> from his teammate and he goes no. And that was a soul deep no because this is like he is seeing his when Shane in in the Kaja book so goes this is my nightmare.
This is my [ __ ] nightmare.
>> This is Ilia's nightmare.
>> This is Ilia's waking nightmare and this is what he had to wake up from because this is this is the worstc case scenario for Ilia. And this is also what exactly what he thought was gonna happen. And so we'll get into that, but I mean he he gets handed the phone or he really kind of takes the phone um and he he says no. And that was a soul deep no.
>> And so his teammates are kind of going back and forth and he is just like locked in on this phone and they're kind of going back and forth and saying like, "I know, right? She's a huge [ __ ] star. How do you even meet her?" Um, and then they're talking about that she's shooting in Montreal.
How, you know, how the f how the [ __ ] do you? So, like they're kind of going back and forth and then they start reading from the article where it says the two met at a mutual friends party according to unnamed sources. And they say, I've never seen Rose this happy. The source goes on to say, and then I teammate goes, I'd be [ __ ] happy if I was banging Rose Landry.
This is again this is Ilia's >> top 10 things to say that would like make it worse for Ilia.
>> Oh my god.
>> That's number one. This is I mean this is this is Ilia's [ __ ] nightmare and it's because this is Ilia is seeing on the screen in front of him the thing that he thinks he will never get with Shane >> which is someone getting to love him publicly and loudly. Now granted, they just started dating, so I don't I don't think Ilia even even in his nightmare, I don't think Ilia thinks like, "Oh my god, they're they're they're automatically in love." But then he probably gets to that he he gets there pretty quickly. But I mean, this is Yeah, I've never seen Rose this happy. I was like, "Yeah, well that makes sense."
But I mean, this is someone Shane being with someone publicly in a way that thinks he'll never be able to be with Shane.
This is at right after the interaction they just had. This is a [ __ ] dagger to the heart. And I think the show does something really smart here because what they do is basically Ilia has that phone and so then you kind of get this montage of Shane and Rose's relationship a little bit. So you get some paparazzi photos. Um and then we're going to get a couple other things there. What I really want to draw attention to is the fact that the aspect ratio of the screen changes. It becomes like a little black box. And that's because you're meant to be all of the stuff that you're seeing about Shane and Rose's relationship, you're meant to be seeing it as Ilia.
This is Ilia watching stuff on the phone and on TV, this is Ilia consuming all of this content about Shane. He is casually, obsessively watching all of this stuff. So, when you when you watch this little montage of Shane and Rose's relationship, there's those like black bars on either side of of the picture.
And that's because you're meant to be kind of thinking of it as looking on the screen. So as you're watching all of these things, you have to think you're watching them as Ilia. This is Ilia watching. Kind of similar to how in other scenes we see things as the audience. Like when we watch the the boys play, sometimes we see things from the perspective of somebody watching from home or we see the score on the screen. We see like that we hear the announcers and things like that. This is similar. Um, and it's just a really smart thing that they do because one, it shows just how focused Ilia is on this, like how he is soaking up all of these details. And then two, it introduces how Ilia knows who Miles is because he's going to see Miles later at the bar. And that is going to be the inciting incident for why he gets that look on his face. Now, in the book, Miles, it's it's draw drawn more attention to that Miles is is also a big movie star, but we really don't get that in the show.
>> Mhm.
>> The the focus is primarily on Rose. And I think partially it's because there's just not a lot of time to introduce like a lot of extra characters and stuff like that. But Miles is important for for a number of reasons.
But what we're really meant to see in the show is that Miles is connected to Rose, which is why we see him at the hockey game. When Rose goes to Shane's game, Miles is there with her. And we're meant to think of Ilia seeing that game and Ilia seeing Miles there with her.
And that is what's going to later clue him in that Shane is there. The montages in this show do a lot of heavy lifting.
Um especially in episode 4, the montage at the beginning and then now this one do a lot of really heavy lifting >> because there's just not a lot of time these I mean there's only six episodes.
Episodes move pretty quick and so this is a really this is a really key one too.
>> Yeah. I feel like there's been quite a bit of I don't know I don't want to say discourse over like was Miles hitting on Ilia or do you think he recognized him and all that stuff and it does I kind of forgot that when I was reading the book that he does like he is just set up differently in a way that it would make sense that >> in the show or I'm sorry in the book it he is an equally big like he's a really big movie star too and they do mention in in the show like that the cast of the the X squad is is is in town shooting which is meant to be kind of like a play on the X-Men especially cuz later you see Rose getting blue makeup put on but so it's he it is a bigger deal in the book that Miles is also a big star and we can deduce from his connection to Rose that he's also part of the show and then she later says when she's talking to Shane that like Miles is an actor but I do think that we're meant to in the So understand that Ilia's main reason that he's recognizing Miles is he's recognizing Miles for his connection to Rose and therefore his connection to Shane. And that is what's going to tip him off. But I have a lot of thoughts on Miles and Ilia's interaction at the bar. I I know we'll get there, but um I know I've heard multiple different theories about like how that interaction plays out, but >> but we'll get there. But before we do, I think just again this montage where you see the images of Shane and Rose. You also see a lot of comments from from fans like talking about how excited they are about these two being together. You have to imagine again that Ilia is seeing all of that. You also see that Rose is at Shane's game. She's wearing Shane's jersey. Miles again, Miles is sitting there with her, but really um Rose is there in Shane's jersey. She's again very public in their relationship with each other. The crowd is cheering.
Um Shane's teammates are jazzed for him, too. like this is this is a relationship that everybody is really rallying behind and everybody is really excited about which is also going to be very hard for Ilia because again >> Ilia is thinking this is one that he's not going to get the chance to be >> open and public in his in his feelings about Shane but two that if he were if they were to be that the public reaction might be So, this is this is another thing where he's seeing all of these people rallying around this relationship, including there's two TV anchors and they talk about how stars and athletes seem to have a hard time resisting each other.
That's hard to blame either one. They're definitely like one hot couple. And this is the point where we go back to Ilia and Ilia's turning off the TV. So, this is bringing us out of the montage. So, again, the montage starts with Ilia watching things on the phone. It ends with Ilia turning off the TV. So, this is meant again to be all Ilia watching.
This is I think also hard for Ilia because one, it's again Rose getting to be with Shane very publicly. And we've talked before about how Ilia really wants to be somebody that loves loudly. He needs like and wants to be loved loudly, >> especially because of everything that he's gone through with his family. But I also think this is a huge reason why this exact situation, why Ilia was so focused on asking Shane if he was by on the couch.
>> Yeah.
>> Because I think as we've talked about many times, Ilia is somebody who values himself on what he can offer other people. That's what he's been taught >> is that his value in a relationship is based on what he can offer other people.
And for his family, a lot of the times that's financial, >> right?
>> Mhm. I think in Ilia's mind, he's asking Shane repeatedly if Shane's by because he's trying to to understand if Shane likes women and therefore in Ilia's mind would likely choose to be with a woman or would likely choose an easier >> path because Ilia knows very well that any relationship between Shane and him could be >> have some some real implications for them. It could affect their careers. For Ilia, as we've talked about, it could very much impact his ability to safely go home. There's a lot at stake. And in Ilia's mind, especially because Ilia doesn't have a super high sense of selfworth. If in his mind, he's going to think if Shane has a quote easier option that he's likely going to want to go with that. Even though the fact that Ilia himself could be with could be with a woman. I mean, Felana even says later, she's like, you know, but you don't want me. And it's because, as Ilia himself says on the couch in the cottage, you know, he's surrounded by beautiful women, but all he can think about is a hockey player with beautiful freckles and a weak backhand. Like, Ilia Ilia knows, but like >> I think in his mind, he really does feel like he kind of wants to know if Shane has if Shane is bisexual because in his mind he's like, "Okay, if Shane could choose an easier option, then why would he choose me?" Especially because being with me could could end up costing him things versus me providing things to him. Mhm.
>> But I think what Ilia's not realizing, because I don't think he's trusting himself to realize yet, is that >> there's nothing easy about not being with the person that you love. There's nothing there's there are a few things harder than that. And they end up saying that right at the end where it's when they both ask each other like, "Does it kill you too?" Like I mean, it's >> they do try to be without each other and it's horrible. So, I think part of the reason why Ilia is yeah >> asking him that question repeatedly on the couch is he's trying to determine if Shane would rather have another option.
And when he sees Shane with Rose, >> he's going to think that's exactly what this is. Is Shane taking an easier option?
>> Yeah.
Yeah. I don't know if I I don't know what I perceived Ilia's reaction being to that. Yeah, I I guess I guess I probably was like thinking about that like subconsciously because I was just imagining that Ilia I in Ilia's position would just feel like betrayed, >> right? like like we have such strong feelings for each other and you it it would be more forgivable if Shane had freaked out and left and then was like I I'm not in a place to see anybody. But then to go and get into a relationship with Rose, like what's the time span of that? I'm not sure how long it is exactly and it might be spelled out in the book, but I don't think it's very long.
>> I don't think it's very long.
>> I don't think it's very long either. And you know, from Shane's perspective, I think Shane looking back will probably look at that that whole thing and be and was like, you know, I didn't really like have like genuine romantic feelings for for her. like she was a really good friend who like I had a connection with and I was trying to convince myself that it was something more but Ilia doesn't know that like right like so like for Ilia seeing it like >> I feel like that's got to be so like I would think there's something wrong with me. It wasn't just that Shane is weirded out by like the relationship or like us together. It's got to be me. Because then he went and immediately got into another relationship, like a public one. Even after he just had that conversation with Illy and was like, "Well, relationships are private."
And then he goes and starts dating a movie star >> and that >> starts dating a movie star and then is publicly photographed and like I'm presum I'm assuming that Rose has pretty active social media cuz she's a movie star and I'm assuming she and a lot of those I feel like some of the photos that were in that montage were probably from like her social media and so like there's one with her with a cake or something. I'm assuming that's like her birthday or something and he's there.
>> Yeah, I think that Yeah, I think it's like there's that part when they're on the couch when Ilia goes, "I never hear about you with girls." Well, you're hearing about it now. And I think that um I I think for Shane, he is so mixed up and conflicted about the whole thing because I think it's I think in Shane's mind, it's like he can't accept one piece of it without accepting all of it. And it's I think it's so, you know, if he accepts that he has feelings for Ilia, he's also accepting that he's gay. He's also accepting that, you know, this is something that they're going to have to kind of figure out and come to terms with. He still isn't really 100% sure where Ilia is on that, which is why he kind of ends up confronting him at the All-Star game and he says like, "Hey, last time we were together, it was different." Like I I think it's I think Ilia kind of asks Shane to jump without jumping first himself. And that's that's really tough. And and and for Shane, I think it is this thing where it's like he has to for him to accept one aspect of it, he kind of feels like he has to accept all of it. And I think we see a very similar situation like that when Ilia asks him >> why he hasn't told his parents yet that he's gay. And Shane kind of says, "Well, I think if not, you know, for you basically, I think I would have." And I think Ilia kind of interprets that as like, "Oh, it's my fault." And I think he even says, "Oh, it's my fault." But for Shane, it's just that he doesn't see the point in telling his parents that he's gay if he's not also telling them about Ilia. Because for Shane, it's Ilia that he really wants.
>> And he doesn't really see the point in telling them one thing without telling them all of it. because Ilia is so interwoven with all of it that he can't there's he just he can't separate the two. So, I think for Shane when he sees Rose and he has these genuine feelings of friendship and interest and he thinks she's, you know, and like I, you know, I'm sure he thinks she's pretty and it's like I think it's like one of those things where it's like even if he's not attracted to her, she's like he's like, you know, she's she's >> she's objectively attractive.
>> She's objectively attractive. I really like talking to her. I feel really comfortable around her. I really like her a lot. And I think Shane kind of feels like, okay, yeah, this is this is this is it. I've I've been thinking all of this time that I just need to meet the right girl and here it is. Cool.
I've I've met the right girl. And I think this is that thing where we we were just talking about with Ilia where it's like you know well like why wouldn't you take the quote easier option but there it's not an easier option when it means >> denying a huge part of who you are including the person that you really want to be with. It's not easier. And Shane figures that out really quickly that like, you know, is it easier from like a publicity standpoint for him to be with Rose? Sure. Is that actually make him happy? Is that who he's actually wants to be with?
No. And I love the way that Rose says um a problem is something that you can fix.
This is not something that Shane can fix. This is not something that needs to be fixed. It's not a problem. This is just Shane, a realization Shane needs to come to and he needs to kind of come to it in his own time. So, I think when I don't blame Shane Shane at all for like being like, okay, okay, this is maybe this is it. Maybe this is the right girl. And sure, okay, let's pursue this and see what happens. And I think if not for Rose, like we talked about last time, I think I don't think he arrives where he does in terms of his understanding of of his relationship with Ilia in nearly the same way. I think again with Ilia seeing him with Rose, I think it's just his greatest fear, but then it's also this confirmation for him that all of these dark thoughts inside his head that no one is ever going to choose him because it's it's he can't offer them enough or it's it's too hard is coming to fruition. And that's just I my heart breaks for him. And it's not intentional on Shane's on Shane's part.
It's just Shane is also trying to figure his own [ __ ] out.
>> But it's, you know, it's hurtful in either it's it's hurtful in both cases.
Um, but this song that's playing during the montage between um Shane and Rose is a is a French song.
And I looked up the I looked up the lyrics and um I looked up the lyrics to this and this is an English translation. So I apologize if anything is incorrect, but some of the lyrics are I never written him words of love strolling hand in hand through the streets. I wouldn't enjoy every second every day. When I thought I wouldn't see the light again, you made all the anger in me run away.
I feel like you know me by heart. So glad my flaws don't scare you. You're the most handsome actor in my life story. I just want one thing to see our future. Little by little, hearing us cracking up laughing.
>> Okay, that's [ __ ] up.
>> I feel light now that you're here. I've told you I love you a 100,000 times, give or take, from day one.
>> It gets worse. Sick.
>> Is that it? Okay. No.
>> Is that it? Oh, that's not it. Okay, go.
Yeah. continue.
>> Oh god. Um, hold on. From day one, I've never doubted you're the one. It's you. It's you, which is like the song that was written for the >> Yeah, that's really nice, Jacob. [ __ ] you. That's [ __ ] up.
>> I love your eyes, your body being in your arms.
It's not over.
>> How much how much how much more is there?
>> I'll stop. But it's um this song is [ __ ] heartbreaking when you think of it as this is Ilia's. We've talked before many times about how this the music is often the character's inner monologue that we don't get. And when we think about the fact that that montage is Ilia watching and that this is the this is the inner monologue.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That is diabolical.
>> Yeah.
I was like, let's see what the lyrics say. Oh, >> surely nothing too scarring.
>> Oh, so much worse than I thought. That's nice.
>> It's so much worse. So much worse than I thought.
>> Oh my god.
>> Well, that's so fun.
>> I have full body goosebumps now.
>> So good.
>> I have chills.
>> So good. I don't want to throw up.
>> No, it's good. I love that. I love this.
It's good. No, it's good. Anyway, so this is where we're at. I think that And I I think from I think as readers I mean as readers as watchers I think that even we're watching this this coverage of Shane and Rose and I think even we're thinking like oh well he does he does look happy like maybe he I mean I think that is like again to show you like how deceptive social media is and all this stuff like cuz you you're look if you're looking at them from the outside you're like yeah they do really happy.
>> Okay. But to be fair, they are happy.
They're just BFFs, >> right? Yeah.
>> Like they're not like hiding like arguments and fights and stuff.
>> They legitimately really care about each other time. They're just not having a sexy time, you know?
>> No. But I think that's the thing is like I think that's how again I think how like you just never really know like you know you you never really know what's going on based on like a couple snapshots or a couple like you have no idea what's going on in someone else's life and I think that you know Ilia is watching this and he's imagining every worst case scenario imaginable that like you know here >> doesn't have to imagine it he's watching it >> he's watching it it's like it's you know nightmare air fuel. He's watching Shane having Yep. He's he's hearing about him with girls now. He's he's met Rose Landry, who not only is is Shane not going to have to end up losing anything by being with her, she's probably going to bring him more opportunity because she's this big movie star. I mean, Ilia is watching this and he's thinking, why in God's name would he choose me?
And it's because >> he has a fat ass.
>> It's because Ilia is the only one.
>> Oh, it's cuz they love each other.
>> That has Shane's ginger ale. Um, no.
It's because Ilia is the only one that Ilia is the person that Shane loves.
Ilia is just by being him, he has everything Shane needs. And and this I think ultimately the other thing about this is the fact that Shane does end up choosing him regardless of the fact that Shane is gay. Like and this comes up at the cottage is like not gay enough to [ __ ] Rose Landry. Regardless of the fact that Shane is gay, the fact that Shane does end up choosing Ilia when so much is at risk by making that choice, I think is so much of the reason why Ilia does trust that Shane actually loves him.
Because so much of Ilia's self-worth and, you know, perception of what he can do for other people is tied up in that. And the fact that Shane chooses him just for him is actually undoing so much. It's like when Shane tells him he's not lazy. Shane ultimately choosing him when when when he actually has so much at risk, I think is the thing that ultimately convinces Ilia that that Shane is different.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's okay to to let us to let his walls down.
>> Yeah.
But before we get there, so as we talked about, Ilia brings us Ilia brought us into the montage. She brings us back out. He's the one that turns off the TV. His teammate is like, "Hey, I was watching that." They're all like What's so funny is like they're all into this like all the all the hockey players are watching >> watching entertainment tonight while they're doing their cardio >> or they're all watching this unfolding situation with Rose Landry. Um, which is so funny. So, Ilia like turns it off, gets off the bike, he's like he's like walking running. He runs into the bike.
This is like what we were talking about last week with the >> when you're like at the the [ __ ] limit already and then your headphones get wrapped around the [ __ ] door handle or the pocket of your sweater >> and that is just like the thing to send you over the edge.
So he stubs his toe and his his friend goes, "Um, it's Marley. It's right. It's Marlo that's like sitting there." He goes, "You good, Ross?"
>> And he stuck my toe.
>> My door. So yeah, it's just it's I mean, you can tell he is like, this has really got him rattled and I completely understand why. So his friend um so Marlo goes, "Okay, man. You know, this whole time like I mean all of his teammates have been trying to figure out what the [ __ ] is wrong with him."
>> Mhm.
>> Because you know he's not himself in the locker room.
>> Do they talk about how he plays?
>> Yes. Yeah. That Well, they do. So they do. The next scene is when Shane and Ilia are going to are going to face off again.
>> I know that they say like where was Shane Hollander and where was I? Like I know that they say that and to me that almost like I think Ilia is so aggressive and competitive by nature that I feel like at some point something like this would almost like detract from >> the opposite. Yeah, I could see that too.
>> Like I would see him and he like you kind of get that that feeling. Well, I got that feeling from him when I'm looking at him on the bench because like Shane is always pretty stoic on the bench, but Ilia is normally not and he's just kind of like sitting there like >> kind of apathetically looking around.
>> And it's almost like something that has hurt him so deeply has kind of like >> he's balls up, >> disassociated, like he fuels himself via fire and it's kind of like dowsted the fire a little bit.
>> Yeah. He's like, "I can't be >> Yeah.
>> Like, I can't muster that level of of energy right now."
>> Yeah. I picture him during this time being like really subdued, but also at the same time very irritable. Like it's like he's very quiet and not his usual self where he is like just an antagonistic little [ __ ] Mhm.
>> And but like at the same time like the smallest things kind of get him riled and it's I think that he is just it's like when um in a few minutes when he there's that shot of him just like staring at himself in the mirror and he just looks so unbelievably miserable and he finally is like [ __ ] this. Like I mean I think that he just is >> Mhm.
Ilia is so there's a few there's a few times when we see Ilia like you can where you can literally just see his brain working and I think that during this whole time I think he is probably just spinning out because I also think there was probably a huge part of him that thought okay that went terrible like the tuna melt situation um that blew up then that that sucks but like hey we've had [ __ ] before And it's been fine. We've always come back together. It's always been fine.
And >> like it's >> from this.
>> Yeah. Like it's fine. Shane needs some time. And then I'm going to start sending him like flirty texts again and it'll be fine.
>> Yeah.
>> And we'll just pretend like this never happened cuz that's what we do and it'll be fine. And then all of a sudden Shane is showing up in the press with Rose Landry. And that is probably the first time where he's like, "Oh my god, >> no.
>> What if >> this isn't like every other time? And what if I don't get him back this time?"
And oh [ __ ] Because I mean, can you just like imagine like the last your last interaction with somebody that you like so deeply love being what happened on the couch like that being >> and you know that that's like you know like Ilia like I love him like my dramatic boy you know that as soon as he sees like Rose And Shane, he like he's got to go to the I'm never going to see him. Like I'm never going to like >> talk to him again, you know? Like I'm never going to see him. I'm never going to be around or with him again. And our la the last thing I like the last conversation that we had, the last interaction was him lying to me and then running out.
>> Mhm.
>> Is like what happened. Like that's just heartbreaking.
I also think it would be one of those convers I also think it would be one of those conversations that you would play over and over and over again in your head because I think there were so many times that Ilia tried to be honest and just got too scared and it would be one of those conversations where you couldn't help but just continually ask yourself what if >> what if I just said it what if or what if alternatively what if I didn't say it like what you know or what if I what if I didn't try to push things or what if I didn't ask him to stay or like what if you know like I mean I think you would >> second guess like literally everything >> either way and it it would be one of those interactions that would just [ __ ] haunt you.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Like what could I have done what could I have done differently?
>> Mhm. Like how could I have how could I have played this different so that I wouldn't lose him? I mean, that is that is Ilia's biggest fear arguably as he's having that conversation with Shane at his house is he's so afraid >> to be honest and have Shane and lose Shane, you know, to put himself out there and lose Shane. Ilia has lost Ilia is not only somebody that has gone through, you know, his his situation with his dad and his brother, as we've talked about, is is terrible. He also you know he's he's dealing with a lot of um you know he's he's learned that vulnerability is not safe from dealing with them. He's also learned you know to to self-protect by being a queer person in Russia that where it's not safe for him to be who he is. But then also he's he's also experienced a deep deep loss of someone who is very close to him. And that is just one more reason to self-protect.
And so it's like to have all of this for him to to approach that conversation and to be trying to self-protect at so many different points and then for the one moment where he actually shows a little bit of vulnerability to be the one >> where Shane leaves. And I'm not blaming Shane. Like I >> like Shane Shane had his own stuff going on and and there were a lot of there are a lot of ways that that whole day went sideways, but like for for that moment to be the one that makes Shane leave is devastating for Ilia. I mean that is >> that is a confirmation of all of the dark thoughts in his head about like this is what this is this is what this is what I get. This is what I get for being vulnerable. And and that's why I love so much the way they do the the All-Star games um hotel room scene is because it's it is their doover and it is Shane proving to him like, hey, no, you you can be vulnerable with me and I'm going to stay and it's okay and actually some good is going to come out of it. And that's such an important lesson for Ilia to learn. But um here this is just I mean this would just be so [ __ ] heartbreaking.
Yep. Yep.
But yeah, so basically so what we see as we kind of come out of so and then we move to the another game that Shane and Ilia are playing against each other. So, this would be um this wouldn't be the first game from after they've had their falling out, but um this is the first game where Shane I think probably is dating Rose. But what we see is that the announcers kind of queue it up for us and they say that the that in the Atlantic Division and the Eastern Conference at large, Shane Hollander and the Montreal Metros will look to put some distance tonight between themselves and their arch rivals, the Boston Raiders. We get Shane in the locker room. His phone is vibrating and we also hear them say, but we'll see what Ilia Rosenoff has to say about that, which is such a sharp, it's such a fun piece of writing to pair it with Shane then looking at his phone because what we've seen up to this point is when Shane's phone is is vibrating in the locker room that he is getting a text from Ilia.
>> Yeah.
>> But instead this time is Rose.
>> She's texting him that she's not going to make the game, but that she wants him to come meet her at the club later. that she's saying like, "I won't make you dance." So, they're kind of going back and forth. Like Shane calls her, "Babe."
He's like, "Don't worry about it. I'll see you soon." So, they kind of have just like a cute little text exchange back and forth. But, as soon as he closes that out, what does Shane do? He scrolls down and he looks at his text with Lily. He looks at his text with Ilia. And you can see he's almost like looking at it like kind of like wistfully but also like just making sure he didn't miss anything because this is this is an this this has become part of their ritual with each other is these texts before the games and now I think Shane is really feeling the absence of them.
Even though he has Rose texting him, Rose is ultimately not it's you know again as we've talked about she's a really good friend but Rose is not his person. He wants to hear from his person before the game and that's Ilia.
>> Yep.
>> So, um he scrolls down to see Ilia and then when when they're actually out on the ice, um we see that Shane kind of keeps looking at Ilia on the bench. Um we also see that Ilia shoves Shane into the boards and there's such a huge difference between this shove and the one that we get >> at the very beginning of the episode of the montage when they're both smiling and they're both laughing. This time I looks mad. He like checks him into the boards and his expression is like like he looks mad >> like a like like that is like a [ __ ] you. Like I mean that is >> you know clearly their personal lives bleeding into their their professional lives.
>> Mhm.
>> And so then then we're back on the bench. Hayden is talking and he go and Hayden's so sweet. He goes he goes, "We'll get him, buddy. Little rust. Little rust."
Um, so this kind of lets us know that Shane's not playing particularly well or he's >> kind of having an off night.
>> And the the announcers back that up a moment later and they say, "In a listless effort, the visiting Boston Raiders managed four shots on goal in the third period. If you can call one nothing a victory and I guess Montreal will take what they can get tonight. But where on the ice was Shane Hollander?
Where was Ilia Rosenoff?
>> Yeah.
>> So like they're both >> well the fact that like the game is going on and they're both sitting on the bench. Bad sign. Well, they're both sitting on the bench and they both have this look on their face like >> and you know Shane is distracted, Shane's looking down at Ilia. And in the past, what we've often seen during games is Ilia is locked in on Shane, but Shane is focused on the game.
>> And in this case, Shane is looking over at Ilia. Ilia is not looking because, >> you know, we're like deflecting. But I mean, this is clearly bothering both of them >> um to be on the ice with each other and they're both still clearly upset.
>> And yeah, I mean, it's it's it's a tough it's a tough scene to watch. And so the very next scene we get is that shot of Ilia just looking at himself in the mirror and just like miserable, angry, frustrated with himself, frustrated with the situation.
I mean just the amount of emotion that both Connor and Hudson managed to put in their expressions. But I mean that just shot of Ilia staring at himself. look a little bloodshot too. Like it feels like it feels like >> an entire story gets told even if we did not know what had happened prior to this. If you watch that clip of Ilia looking in the mirror, you like feel that he's not been sleeping well. He's exhausted. He almost looks like he like he doesn't want to cry, but like he's frustrated to the point of tears.
>> Yeah. Um, like you can just you can see all of that and he's not saying anything. He's literally just staring at himself in the mirror, which I think is insane. Yep. Yeah.
Yeah. Um, I think he just looks so incredibly upset and it just is I mean you can see just in that one shot I think how much he's struggling. Like he is not okay.
Like he's really really having a tough time. And so I think that's why you finally then see him be like [ __ ] this.
Like I need what is he I say he's like I need to get I need to get laid. Um, but >> yeah, he's we're going to get laid.
>> But I think one one just quick note is that the teammate that he's sharing a room with is and is the same one that is the one that tells him about the relationship to begin with. And um he is actually a very important person in the hockey world too. That's Harrison Brown who is a hockey player who came out um as trans in 2016 and then went on to become the first out transgender professional hockey player in history. So just a shout out to to Harrison Brown who plays Connors on Ilia's team. But yeah, he's he is on the receiving end of Ilia's angst on this twice because one of my favorite line deliveries I think in the whole show is when Ilia comes out and goes I need to get laid.
Let's go out and Connor is like where and goes we're in Montreal. We find a [ __ ] club. And then there's like this pause where I think Connors is like looking at him like, "What the [ __ ] What the [ __ ] >> What do you mean about that?" Yeah.
>> And and then Ilia goes, "Tell people like >> is like, I can't go on my own. We have together."
>> Everybody get them here before. Okay.
>> I need to move in a pack. Okay. my full support system here.
>> But then I think God is just like I'm on it. Jesus like Jesus [ __ ] Christ.
Like I mean he's like he's like I am so [ __ ] close to a nervous breakdown.
Tell people.
Um so so [ __ ] good. But anyway, yeah. So we get we know they're going to the club. We also know because of the text that Shane has with Rose that Shane is also going to the club. And so this is teeing us up. And then the next scene we get is that Ilia, we see the back of Ilia's head walking into the club. And the song that will haunt everyone for the rest of our lives is all the things she said by Tattoo is playing. The the lighting and the way they've done like all of this this scene is it's >> it's just so so [ __ ] well done. But we see Ilia walking in. We're seeing the back of his head. He's kind of moving in like a little bit of slow motion, but all the things she said is playing. This song is such a perfect pick that Jacob wrote to. But that that chorus of like all the things she said, all the things she said running through my head, running through my head. as we just talked about where Ilia would be >> replaying that conversation that he had with Shane over and over and over again.
I think this is such a good representation again of the characters inner monologues. They do a really cool thing with this where we're with Ilia as he's walking in.
>> Mhm.
>> And then we see like we're walking up to Rose and Miles the table and you kind of almost think for a second that you're like that Ilia is walking up because we've been walking in with Ilia but then the camera swings around and it's Shane as as Rose goes, "Hi, handsome." So that is like our way. There's kind of like this little fake out moment that they do and then that is the and you're so kind of caught off guard and that then it sinks in that oh [ __ ] they are both the same club and the tension here is just so all the all the clubs in Montreal >> all the nightclubs and all the this is they do such a good job too of building the tension because we don't get that reveal right away like we get like this moment where like Shane is sitting with Rose she's telling him good game tonight. Um, and he goes, "No, it wasn't." And she goes, "No, it wasn't.
But you won." Rose does know about hockey. And she, again, the comfort they have with each other. They are really good friends.
>> And Shane goes, "I need a beer." I think here too, like I think in the way he orders the beer here, he is pretty comfortable like with Rose, but I think this is also him kind of slipping into this persona of like, >> yep, I'm I'm the boyfriend and I go to the club and I get a beer and yep, this is all all checks out.
>> You know, he's a clear liquor girly at heart.
No, >> you know who's Jones in for a ginger?
>> Cuz it's like he's got to be on edge.
He's doing a really good job here of acting like he's not, but he has to be because he just had that run in with Ilia.
>> Mhm.
>> He's got to be on edge. He's doing a really good job pretending. Shane is so good at masking. He's so good at slipping on that mask.
>> Literally 24/7.
>> He's never not. So, he's just good at it.
>> He's so good at slipping on that mask.
So, they're kind of going back and forth. Shane goes, "I need a beer."
Miles goes, "I bet you do." Miles is very flirty with Shane. He's very openly interested in Shane. And Shane goes, "Did you watch the game, too?" And Miles says, "Yeah, I watched a few clips on Rose's phone, but it was a sweaty blur."
So, it is introducing the possibility that Miles would recognize Ilia when he sees him. So, we get a little bit of setup here.
Um, Miles then says, "I have no problem watching sweaty blurs."
And so again, kind of showing he was watching the game and he was interested in in certain aspects for sure. Rose then decides like, "Okay, I want to dance." Shane is not really into the idea. She did promise him.
>> To be fair, to be fair, maybe just finished playing a professional hockey game.
>> He just finished go [ __ ] dance either. He just finished playing a game and then I think she also did promise him earlier that he wouldn't have to dance.
>> I'm not gonna and I like I love Rose so much and she's probably just like a little drunk and she's like, "Oh my god, I just planned dancing with my boyfriend." But in my soul I feel Shane's bone deep fatigue.
>> Like I cannot fathom >> I can't fathom and maybe this is just a me thing. I can't fathom playing a game that's that high intensity, that's that taxing, going and drinking immediately after and then going and doing more physical activity. And to be fair though, what Shane is doing should not be considered dancing. So like maybe it's not that fatiguing for him. But apart from the physical fatigue, the mental and emotional fatigue that he must be experiencing at this point because it's not just that he played a a a game of a full game of hockey, which is a very physically demanding sport, but he also played against Ilia and Ilia was bodychecking him and he wasn't talking to him and he wasn't texting him and you know that that's upsetting him.
There's just no way it's not. There's no way that Shane is cool with it. There's just no way. He's doing a really good job pretending like it's all good and he's like, you know, Mr. Model boyfriend, but like there's just no way that he's not upset. Like he has got to be >> mentally, emotionally, physically exhausted. So yeah, he doesn't really want to go dance, but he does a really good job pretending um or he does a really good job pretending to rally. Rose goes, "Come on, I never get to dance." And Miles even says, "Okay, that is a lie." A lie.
That's a lie [ __ ] though.
>> Um, but again connecting Miles to Rose.
So we know like the main way in the show that we know Miles is through Rose. Like Miles is an extension of Rose. Again, there's just not a lot of time in the show. All the characters have to be utilized really well. But Rose asks him to go get them champagne. But before that, she says, "Hey, I want to dance with Shane." And Miles goes, "That makes two of us." very obvious in his interest in Shane, which is an interesting thing because like Rose doesn't seem bothered by it at all. I get the vibe that her and Shane are like an item, right?
I mean, >> yeah, they're dating each other. They're they're exclusive. If >> that's what you're asking, I mean, I get the vibe that they're exclusive, but like I don't know. She doesn't seem bothered by it, >> but like I don't know. Whenever that happened, I was like, she's just like she's just a chill girl. Like maybe like that doesn't And she's also like so self-confident that like >> Yeah.
>> You know, and I feel like her and Miles are I feel like her and Miles are genuinely good friends.
>> I I think the hard thing the hard thing I have This is This is a And we'll get there in a second. I have a hard time with Miles on the dance floor.
>> I don't know why. The only reason The only reason I can think about why they did this >> is that so it makes sense for for the following episode when Rose is like, "Well, Miles is gay. You knew that, right?" And I don't know, but like I think and like but Shane is like, "Oh, I don't know if I did know that." Which confuses me. I'm like, "Dude, he was kissing your neck. Like I don't know how much clearer it can be.
>> I the best explanation I've heard of this and I I really had to kind of sit with this too and I I think this is the explanation that to me makes the most sense is because this is a big change from the book. In the book, Miles does dance with them and he is flirty with Shane for sure, but he definitely doesn't kiss the back of Shane's neck.
And I think it is like I think it is one of those things too where like there's so much There's so much focus on well throughout the show there's a huge focus on consent.
>> So I think that for me was jarring but then two there is so much put on this idea of that Shane and Ilia could get discovered like that's a very high stakes thing within the and not I mean within this story but then also just on a larger scale. So, I think to like see Miles like kissing the back of Shane's neck in a public place is also kind of jarring because you're like, "Wait a minute. Wo, like what if someone like Shane is a very recognizable figure?" So, like, what if somebody sees them? Like, isn't this a highstakes situation here, too?
The best explanation that I've heard is that when the music changes from all the things she said sung by Tatu to to all the things by um it switches oh my god I'm blanking on his name hang down >> Harrison when it switches to his version that like what's happening after that point is almost kind of like a little bit of a a little bit of a dream state and it's and I think we see that reflected in other things too like for example like the staircase in Shane's house like when we see him on it with Ilia it's a very direct path upstairs versus when he's on it with Rose it's like an endlessly looping staircase so I think that the way the best explanation that I've heard for it and I think the one that does make the most sense is that >> when the music switches and that's when we see Miles kiss the back of Shane's neck. It's meant to be that cuz Rose kisses him and then and then Miles kisses the back of his neck. Is that Shane is basically trying to be engaged in this relationship with Rose, but his but his true sexuality is literally breathing down his neck.
>> Is this after is this after Ilia spots them? Right. Yeah, it is. Right. Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
>> I almost wondered if that was like if that was like Ilia imagining worst possible scenario.
>> I think it could be I think that it could be part of >> he's watching those three and he's just like losing his [ __ ] mind.
>> I mean I think that all of this is kind of a little bit of a dream state because there's also then like they're both just standing there staring at each other.
>> Yeah. Not moving.
>> Kind of having like an ambitious. Yeah.
>> Yeah. kind of having like an out-of- body experience a little bit. So that to me is what makes the most sense is that it's not really happening to an extent because that would then explain to your exact point where when Shane is seems a little not 100% sure that Miles is gay.
like it's like, yeah, well, he was, you know, kissing the back of your neck. But I think that um he did seem like genuinely >> caught off guard. Not caught off guard, but like a little bit like it wasn't super obvious to him that Miles was into him, but like I think that >> if this is kind of almost like happening a little bit of a dreams day, I think that also helps explain like the shower scene at the end with with Ilia. So, I do think there's a lot of merit to that explanation because otherwise I have a really hard time with this scene being like fully in reality because I think for >> all of those reasons or again, >> yeah, >> the focus on consent >> in every other aspect of the show, the risk um that's been introduced of if Ilia and Shane were to be found out. So, I think for those reasons, >> I do subscribe to the like it's a little bit of a dream state. I think that's what makes the most sense. But >> I had a really hard time watching this scene um when I was watching it for the first time because I was like, >> what is happening right now? Anyway, um but before we get there, so they go out to the dance floor and Miles goes to the bar to get champagne presumably.
>> Ilia is also at the bar and he's with his teammates. Um he is talking to the bartender and he's he's apologizing on behalf of his teammates. He's like, "Sorry about them." And then he's like, "I can I have one more, please?" So, he's ordering a drink with his teammates. He's very polite, but he is kind of just waiting for the bartender to come back. And as he is kind of just looking around, he sees Miles. And Miles is already looking at him.
>> Mhm.
>> And then you see the dawning comprehension of on Ilia's face. And at the same time, Miles kind of does this like little salute thing. Now, a couple things with that one. Do I think Miles was like basically like, "Hey, sup."
Yes. Like, I do think Miles is also like sees a hot guy at the bar and is like, "Hey, what's going on?"
>> To me, I also felt like this was also Miles acknowledging that he kind of knows who I or that he recognizes Ilia as Ilia.
>> I think it's a it's I think it's a little bit of both.
>> I think it's a little bit of both. Like again introducing earlier that Miles was watching the game. But then the other reason why I think this is just from a storytelling perspective. We get several moments where Shane is recognized during this episode while he's out. We don't get a lot of moments in general where the boys are out in public. And just to kind of again have those stakes in place that they are both very recognizable people and to have it be a thing later when when Ilia comes to the cottage where Ilia is kind of walking up incognito and Shane is asking him if anybody is recognized. So, just to kind of have this moment where you're you're having both of them get recognized >> during the course of this episode, just again to emphasize that they are these recognizable public figures.
>> To me, just to keep them on that even kind of playing field, I think makes sense to have it be that Miles is to an extent recognizes him. I also think Miles just sees a really hot guy in a magnificent shirt >> and is like, "Hey, what's up?"
Um, so he's giving him like the hey, what's up? signal. This is like one of the things I got asked about the most. I think when I was making, not the most, but like a lot when I was making my Instagram, people were asking like what Miles was doing. This is purely what I think Miles is doing is I think Miles is saying, "Hey, what's up?" I saw there were a lot of people that were saying that like that he wasn't gesturing at Ilia, that he was gesturing for the bartender. I don't think that's the case. There's a bartender right in front of him. So, I don't think >> he's also the case.
>> He's also on the bar. He's leaning on the bar looking directly perpendicular.
>> Yeah.
>> So, if you Yeah, that it just doesn't make any sense for that to be the case.
>> Yeah. And there's and there is a bartender like directly in front of him.
I also saw like some people discussing in the comment section that they thought that maybe they interpreted as Miles like basically kind of giving Ilia a heads up that Shane and Rose were out on the dance floor. I also don't think this is the case because he would have no reason to.
>> I don't think they know each other like that. I don't think like why would why would he has no idea that like Shane and Ilia were >> the most I could think was like that Shane had explained or that sorry that Rose would have explained the rivalry to him but he would have but him and Rose are good friends he's not going to try to like [ __ ] up her night by being like hey and I also think Miles is an actor himself he also knows that a lot of times like these like >> these feuds and stuff like he would understand that like some of this stuff is not >> Yeah, >> it's PR, right? So, I don't think that's the case either. I I I really do think that it's two things. One, I think it's Miles sees a hot guy down the bar and he's like, "Hey, what's up?" And then I also think it's, "Hey, I I recognize you. What's up?" Like, so I think it's a little bit of both. Um, the main important thing though, more much more important than Miles noticing Ilia is Ilia noticing Miles >> because Ilia notices Miles and immediately there's like a there's like a there's you can literally see the thought hit him >> and this is just so so well acted >> because you see the moment that he realizes who Miles is.
>> Mhm. And you see the moment where he essentially like braces for impact >> and then he starts doing that slow scan of the room because he knows that if Miles is here, there's a really good chance Rose is here. And if Rose is here, there's a really good chance Shane is here. And he is about to walk into his nightmare in 3D.
The way that his face changes when he like processes who Miles is reminds me very much of like a cat when their pupils dilate and they get bigger like they lock in on something. That's what it reminded me cuz you can literally just like it's so dark like >> you can just see like his eyes focus.
>> I don't know how I don't know another way to explain it but you can just see it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then, oh my god, there's like the very slow. He's like turning bit by bit and then his eyes are like searching back and forth. He's not moving his head at all. He's just moving his eyes.
>> Mhm.
>> Terrifying. Terrifying. And I was like, if I was genuinely looking for somebody and was not concerned that they would already have found me, I would be doing this. But he's not. He's literally just staring. He's like trying to be the most nonchalant and just like using only his eyes because like in his head there's a possibility that Shane is like right over there like right next to him.
>> Yeah. I I think it's this it's one of those things too where it's like at some point we've all had like a moment where it's like you know that what you're about to witness >> is bad >> is bad. You have like you you know and you still look.
>> It's like when you step on a bug, you're like, I have to look at it.
>> That's not the scenario I was picturing actually, but >> but that's like a thing, you know?
Like pick the shoe up and like look at the bug.
>> Yeah.
>> Or it's like people with like a morbid fascination for like >> car crashes or [ __ ] and [ __ ] Like people love watching that [ __ ] Like people love like you can't >> you can't look away.
>> You can't look away. You can't look away. And that's also why I like uh those America's Funniest Home Videos compilations specifically of the ones where people like fall and eat [ __ ] cuz I think that's cuz you can like your heart rate picks up as you watching the video cuz you're you're like foreseeing what's going on. Like you're watching the dad like climb the ladder to the roof to hang the decorations and you're like I can see exactly. You're just sitting there in anticipation like oh my god what's going to happen and then it happens and then you're just you can't look away. I think it's also just this thing too where it's like especially for it's cuz they do this several times throughout the course of the show. It's that whole thing again in like in the crowded room I'll look for you. And it's like they can't >> can't not look for him.
>> He can't not he can't pass up a chance to see him >> even though he knows that when he does it's going to hurt like hell. He just can't not do it. And it's that slow pan of Ilia searching the room and the fact you could just see his eyes just scanning looking knowing >> that he's going to find something that he doesn't want to find but he can't help himself.
>> That is like and then it's actually just like 8,000 times worse than you could ever think.
>> 8,000 times worse because her hands are under his shirt touching him. I'm like, >> they're not just dancing. She's got his hands like She's got her hands like under >> his shirt.
>> Those are his Those are Ilia's boobs.
>> Those are Ilia's boobs. Those are Ilia's Those are Ilia's handholds.
>> Ilia's favorite thing. I know.
>> It's It's just like It's just But imagine the worst thing that you could ever imagine and then make it 8,000 times worse.
>> Yeah. It's the [ __ ] I mean, the the little the little deep breath he does.
after he does see and we go back and he kind of does that.
>> Yep. Where he just like takes a deep breath and just he's like, "All right, we're going to push that deep down." And then he turns around and he's like starts tapping on the bar and he's like and he's like, "I need alcohol."
>> He was so polite before. He was like, "Can I Sorry for them. Can I have one more, please?" And now he's like, "I need a [ __ ] drink.
I need a drink. I need a drink." And then um you see him take that drink. He gets his drink and he's continuing to kind of watch Shane and um and then you also see as he after he takes that drink, you see the um the resolve on his face that he's like, "Okay, game on.
Okay, yeah, all right. All right, yeah, all right. I'm going to go. You I have to see this. Okay, fine. I'm gonna go find somebody now.
>> He takes it personally. Even though Shaden has no idea.
>> Oh, he takes that [ __ ] [ __ ] personal.
I The minute his face during the cottage episode when Shane gets that text from Rose and he's like, "It's just Rose."
Ilia's [ __ ] face. He's like like I mean he they they will be in they will be 50 years married and Ilia will still be like >> not so good you can't [ __ ] Rosundry.
>> You remember when you [ __ ] Rose?
>> I do. Like like I mean I you know I like Rose is like the godmother to like their kids >> and he's just like it's like he has such PTSD from like the event itself and not even her at that point.
>> No, he's like completely forgiven her.
He's like they're good buddies. Like they're like they are >> Yeah. They go out on the town like they're getting the town together.
>> They're fine. He's not mad at Rose. He is mad. He's like still mad. He's like he And that's one of the things I love most about Iliot is my baby. Like he is [ __ ] holds a grudge.
>> He holds a grudge and it will not make sense.
>> Mm- No, >> he will not be grounded in logic.
>> It's grounded on vibes only.
>> This scene is so because like from his because what he's seeing is he's seeing Shane out on the dance floor with Rose.
Shane is smiling. Rose has her hands all over them. And Ilia is like, "Okay, yeah, no, actually they are. They're Yep. They're happy. That's great. I love that. Good for them. I'm going to go and um find some way to dis disassociate and distract myself before I have a nervous breakdown and just start screaming in the middle of this club." But like, I mean, now what we know is that Shane like really doesn't want to be out there. He's [ __ ] exhausted. And you know, we're about to also understand the depth of like kind of how much he's having to kind of talk himself into some of this stuff with Rose. But I think that um, you know, I mean, it's just it's such a [ __ ] mess.
>> Anyway, then we kind of switch over to Shane's POV. Shane's dancing with Rose.
Miles is very close. Um, he's also dancing with them. Um, and you get to watch have the same realization that Ilia does.
>> Yes. The parallels here are so good.
>> He starts spotting Ilia's teammates and he's like, "Oh no, oh no."
>> Losing his mind.
>> He has the same realization. I feel like though for Shane, Shane almost immediately switches into panic.
>> Like I I feel like you can see Shane be like, "Oh, fuck." like he kind of starts to look a little panicked and like you can see his anxiety >> and um whereas Ilia it's almost like resignation.
>> Yeah.
>> Um for Shane it's like >> and I I think this again is like such a good parallel to when they're on the couch where I think we talked about last um when we talked about the couch that like when Ilia says Shane's name it's like a relief. When when Shane says Ilia's name it's like a realization. I think that's mirrored here. When you know when when Ilas sees Shane, it's like it's like a resignation. And when when Shane sees Ilia's teammates, he's like, "Oh, [ __ ] Oh, [ __ ] Oh, fuck." Like, it's just we're they're like caught in a loop. And he immediia does. He sees those teammates immediately puts together that if they're here, Ilia is definitely here.
>> Mhm.
>> And he starts looking and then he sees Ilia.
>> It's Well, it's like he sees them and he's like, "They're here. Ilia's here. I can't be here." He's like, "I'm >> I need to go. I got to go.
>> Out of here."
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> I got to go. Um Yeah. I mean it's Yeah. Um and he sees So when he sees Ilia, Ilia's macken with um a girl he's met at the bar. Now in the book, this girl that he meets at the bar, I think in the book, I think it ends up being that like she has a girlfriend. I'm sorry, she has a boyfriend and the boyfriend like likes >> this is like a thing they do. Like he kind of likes to watch. So I think I's like, "Oh, great." So, I can't even [ __ ] get laid. Um, when it's not like a whole situation. So, Ilia is very much kind of But I mean, Ilia is very much making out with this girl to prove a point. I mean, >> he's hoping Shane is going to see him >> and Shane does.
Um, and it's Yeah, I mean it this is this is this is this is not good. Um, we get the music change. Shane says that he um has to go to the bathroom there. He says like I'm going to I got to go to the bathroom.
Once again, Shane kind of making this like quick exits that to the restroom like when he's like feeling really overwhelmed. Like he does this after the awards thing with Ilia. He did this earlier in the episode when his parents were like >> kind of pushing him a little bit on like are you okay? He's like I'm, you know, I'm just going to run to the bathroom.
He's very much >> like I need to go compose myself. Like I can't keep it together right now. Mhm.
>> Um, instead what they end up doing is Shane starts moving and then he ends up just like locked in place staring at Ilia. Ilia staring back at him. Now granted, I think again we kind of viewing this as a little bit of a dream >> scenario where I think it's >> I feel like it's probably like a split second that that happens.
>> It's like a split second, >> but it feels like it goes for forever.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yep. Um but you know, we have them just staring at each other across the club. Shane alone, Ilia's with with someone um that he's really not even paying attention to. All his focus is on Shane >> after a certain point. Um I doing that thing where he's like gnawing on this girl's ear. He's like I'm like I feel like you're engaged in some distracted driving right now. I'm like I feel like you just need to stop.
But um they they're just staring at I mean it's just funny heartbreaking. Um I'm okay. Um they're just staring at each other and it's the like the devastated look on Shane's face.
>> Mhm. M >> and and Ilia just staring back at him like this is yeah like this is this is where we are. You left >> and we are >> stupid games and we have won stupid prizes.
>> We have in fact won stupid prizes. We are now in the find out era of our fuckound. Um but yeah, >> I mean they both just look [ __ ] miserable. Um, we also start getting scenes spliced in with with with Shane and Rose going home together. Now, I think they did some really interesting things with this. And by interesting, I mean it will haunt me to the end of my days. One is like what they did with the stairwell because at the beginning of the episode and we talked about this just a little bit earlier like when you have that beginning montage when Shane and Ilia are basically like they're they they're so busy >> kissing each other. They're so hungry for each other and they're so into each other they can't even stop kissing to get up the stairs. And it's a very direct path. It's like they go up the stairs, they turn left, they're and they're gone. with Shane and Rose. It's like there they made the stairs like this unending loop >> and again kind of speaking to that a little bit of like that dreamlike scenario like this this being a little bit of like a dream state but it's just this unending loop. Um Shane with Ilia in the beginning is >> like I don't want to say the aggressor.
The aggressor is like the wrong word but he's like he's he's pulling Ilia's shirt off. He is like he's part of the reason like why they are having a hard time getting up the stairs because Shane like is so he's always so just starved for Ilia here it's like you have Rose walking up the stairs by herself. She's taking her clothes off by herself and Shane is just trailing behind her >> looking like he's going off to war.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, >> apprehension, a general sense of doom and despair.
>> Um, the look on his face I just found so I I think Hudson played this scene so well because it's so upsetting >> like the look that on his face of like where you know >> he looks so nervous. He looks >> he looks so nervous and you also know he is talking himself into this.
>> Like he is having to talk himself into this in a way that he is >> we've seen him with Ilia >> and like where it's it's it's never been like there's been times where he's been nervous with Ilia, but it's never been because he doesn't want to do it. It's it's it's this is this is new and I'm nervous and but I really want to do this so I'm going to you know I'm going to work through that. This is >> I'm really nervous and I actually don't really want to do this but I think >> I think I'm I'm supposed to.
>> So I'm going to try.
>> And that's just like [ __ ] devastating.
>> Mhm.
>> That he feels like he has to.
I mean it's it's hard. It's just like this. I had such a hard time with this scene.
>> Yeah, the last like 20 seconds are really hard are really just really hard to watch in general.
>> Yeah, I had a really I I remember watch sitting and watching it and going I and thinking I don't like this. Like I was like I really don't like this.
>> I think we were saying that as you were watching it.
>> Yeah. I was like I don't like this.
>> I don't like this.
>> I was like I don't like this. I don't like this at all. I don't like this. Um, and I don't I think it's like one of those things where we know Shane at this point like we've seen how again how affectionate he is with Ilia. Like we know Shane >> Mhm.
>> we know what Shane is capable of and we know what what Shane how Shane can be. And then so to see him like this where it's so clear that he's so nervous and that he's really having to psych himself up here >> is heartbreaking.
>> Mhm.
>> And I think it's also just like it's also the point. It's like like how many people are have tried to force themselves into thinking you know this is this is what I well this is what I need to do. this is what you know to like force themselves to try to be something they're not >> supposed to be like yeah >> yeah you know force themselves to to try to be something they're not or try to be someone they're not because they think that's what they're supposed to be and it's not you know so it's I don't it's a really heartbreaking scene um I just I felt just devastated for Shane when I was watching it I felt devastated for Ilia too but um I think you just sit in this moment with Shane >> where you see him walking up the stairs, like they finally get upstairs. Um, again, just the way that him and Rose kiss is so different. And and I know they've talked a lot about Jacob Tun has talked a ton about like how everything with the intimacy scenes was done super super intentionally and just the difference too in how in Shane and Rose kissing um like again Shane not clearly not being nearly as into it as he is with Ilia.
Um, and like I mean it's just it's you could not have a more obvious 180. Um, and then two just that when they when they are actually finally having sex like the fact he's like really not looking at her >> at all. Um, and you there's there are moments where he's kind of like he's looking out and then we also see Ilia like he's he's picturing I think I think he is picturing Ilia.
>> Yep.
>> And then we see Ilia in the shower.
Ilia's in the shower alone. Um, this was like a huge topic when this scene came out of like where is he? Because he's not in his hotel room shower.
>> He's in Shane's shower, isn't he? I don't think he is. It's not the exact same shower. There has been like sideby-side photo comparisons of this.
And I think it's meant to kind of just be still like a little bit of a dream state where Shane is picturing Ilia.
Um, but at the same time, Ilia does go home alone. We know from the book like Ilia does go home alone and he does he does end up practicing some self-care in the shower. So, it's not it does happen, but I think there's it's also kind of this thing still where there's almost like a little bit of a blend of reality and also kind of what >> Yeah.
>> Um, you know, the kind of things that the others are thinking. Um, but the fact that kind of towards the end it's like they're looking at they're looking at each other even like alone they're together. [ __ ] devastating.
But I Yeah, I had a really hard time with this scene. So, I think that um I think they did such such an incredible job. I think showing just how different the scenes are between >> when Shane and Ellie are together and it just is so right. Like every like they just they work together so well. They're so into each other. They're so focused on each other and then it's just this scene at the end with Rose is just a complete 180 and it does really hammer home how miserable the situation is and then how [ __ ] unsustainable.
>> Mhm.
>> Yeah. I think it has I think it has I feel like with Shane, especially next episode with his conversation with Rose, it's one of those things where like you don't really know how good you have it until you don't have it anymore. And especially for Shane, it's like you don't know how good it is when you also have nothing to compare it to.
>> Yeah. And like he's talked about that a he he talked about that that like there's just like yeah like he doesn't have anything to compare it to. So like like now that he's thinking about it, now that he's experienced it with Rose like he can say it was better. But before that it's just like what is he what is he supposed to work off of? It's just I think all the more heartbreaking for Ilia though that like Ilia does did know how groundbreaking their like their physical relationship was and like how close they were able to be. Like Ilen knew how significant it was and like did not let on to Shane at all cuz I think Ilia had an opportunity to be like Shane it isn't always like this. It hardly is ever like this and but he didn't. And so for all Shane knows, it could always be like that.
>> Well, I think it's like and I mean I think we we know that like Shane has had like a girlfriend at some point. But yeah, I mean like Shane's experience is so limited >> to compared to Ilia's. And again, he has that mentality that maybe he just hasn't met the right girl. And I think yeah to your point I think Ilia does know and I think that's why Ilia comes to realization first like I think of just not to say that Shane doesn't come to the realization early on that I think he I think Shane does know or highly suspect that he's gay. I think at this point I think Shane um does know that he's in love with Ilia. It's whether or not we're able to acknowledge that and like settle with that at this point is is is kind of where Shane's at. I think Ilia does know to your point like Ilia has plenty of experience. He knows how remarkable this is and he knows this is different. And so I think that's why Ilia ends up being the one who reaches the point sooner where he's like, "Okay, nothing else is going to scratch this itch and nothing or nothing else is scratching this itch and nothing else is ever going to." And something like I need I need more. I need more.
like I'm I I know I'm not going to find anyone else and I feel like I have to try something here. But I think to your point like he never says to Shane how different it is because he would then have to admit that it's different for him and Iliad doesn't feel he's too scared. He's I think if I think if Shane had come over for tuna melt day and they had sat down on the couch and Ilia had said, "Hey, so we've been doing this for a while now and I I this is I I don't know how this is for you, but this is this has become really special to me and I don't really want this with anybody else anymore. where like where are you at?
>> Well, then we wouldn't have a show. So, >> right. But and I is not going to do that for a myriad of reasons, right? But I think that it's always easier to be vulnerable when someone else has been vulnerable with you first. And and for Ilia to come to realization first and for Ilia to have to be the one that would have to be vulnerable to kind of initiate things is a I mean, that's tough. That's really tough. And but I you know so I think it does end up having to be Shane who's going to have to initiate the vulnerability because Shane has a much more secure relationship with his family and he has like Shane has people that have his back like you know and even though he hasn't trusted them with everything Shane has a lot more experience with be like I has a lot more experience with sex. So Shane is a lot more experienced with being able to share your emotions with people >> and and and a healthy family dynamic and and and being able to talk about things and having a support structure. So he's going to be much more inclined to be able to be vulnerable. Even though it is still very scary >> and Shane is brave, >> it's still very scary. But Shane is going to be a little bit it's going to be a little easier for Shane to do that than it is for Ilia. But as soon as Shane starts modeling that vulnerability in a very direct way with Ilia, in a way that Ilia starts to understand >> Mhm.
>> Hey, this is a safe space for me to do this. Ilia quickly follows suit.
>> Yeah.
>> And ends up being very open in future >> in a lot of different areas. Not in some areas, but in a lot of different areas.
He starts trying, he starts learning, and he starts changing his behaviors.
But it does take Shane being the one like it took shane it took Shane leaving for things to to shift and it takes Shane being the one to walk in like you talk about that like laser focus like a cat finding their prey. That's how Shane is when he walks in that Allstar game. He's like, "Okay, >> yes, I'm the one who left, but I'm the one who's coming back here. I am Yes, I am taking what's mine.
>> [ __ ] this." Both of us are [ __ ] miserable. What are we doing?
>> Yeah, >> let's fix it. And I I have such huge respect for Shane because of that. I know Shane is brave.
>> Mhm.
>> That's why I love when I love when Ilia says, "Yes, it's scary, but you're brave." Because to Ilia, Shane is brave.
>> Yeah, >> Shane is brave. Shane does the thing that scares the absolute [ __ ] [ __ ] out of Ilia. He's honest and he's vulnerable and that scares the [ __ ] [ __ ] out of Ilia. To Ilia, Shane is so brave.
>> Yeah.
>> Get behind me, Shane Hollander.
Love them.
Oh my god. Anyway, here we are. We made it in under two hours.
>> We should have take Somebody should have taken that.
>> Damn it. What What would he What would we have bet though? I have two things for you actually. I have a t-shirt and a book for you.
>> I wouldn't have bet them though. I would have given them to you anyway.
>> I have I have all your stickers. You put them back in my bag.
>> I love I was like, "Oh my god." I got my I got my my Okay, >> I got my notebook that I got at Paper and Pencil. Shout out Paper and Pencil.
>> So, they're moving. They're moving, I think, this week. Maybe >> they're moving.
>> Yeah. To They're moving to a bigger storefront.
>> Oh, that's good because God, they needed more room. Um Okay.
>> Is gone. But it's a stationary store and I got a I got a I got a a notebook and I put all my stickers that I got.
It's cute. That's what I need is like an I'm so weird about my stickers cuz I >> Yeah, I buy so many of them.
>> Put them >> I know. I buy so many of them and then I'm like, "No, this isn't special enough for me to put my sticker on."
>> And this is just like a catchall for me.
Like I have meeting notes.
I have I'm learning the lyrics, the Korean lyrics to some BTS songs so that I'm prepared for August. Excited for you. Grocery list.
But yeah, I put all my freaking stickers on here.
>> I never write in my notebooks.
I don't either, but I'm well cuz I like I want to make I want to write like before I would have been like, well, I want to put something that's like worthwhile in here >> cuz it's so cute. But I don't give a [ __ ] I just need to use it.
>> I'm always like that where I buy the most beautiful notebooks and then I'm like, well, I don't want to write just anything in here because that'll mess it up. And no one tell me >> that is what they're for.
Somebody's going to like leave a comment be like, "Ren, um, >> that's that is reflective of such and such." I don't want to hear it.
>> I know. Um, but >> yeah, and this I I feel like sometimes like the stickers that you get from specific stores that are like their store sticker, >> sometimes they're not the cutest.
Sometimes I don't want to put them on stuff. But pink couch.
>> I knew that's what you were gonna say.
Pink couch.
>> So cute.
>> I know. It's so cute. It's so cute. I love the little ones too that the bookstores have for the indie bookstore road map. But they're so cute. But >> and then I got this one that says Andersonville on it.
>> Oh, it's >> um we just a reminder for everybody who's listening on the Spotify um or on Spotify or Apple Podcast or wherever you wherever you listen. There were a couple comments on the last episode like you can watch this on YouTube. We do put these episodes up on YouTube. Sometimes there's a lag because >> I am downloading these episodes and my internet connection lately has been terrible. But so sometimes there's a lag, but you can watch these episodes on on YouTube and you will see Lizzie and I talking about this stuff. Yeah. And I want to know if there are any people that are listening on Spotify or like podcast apps that like have not seen any of our other content, so they don't know what we look like. Like that is a wild concept to me. You don't know what we look like. And I need you guys to go find like a photo of us or like scroll to a video with both of us and hit pause and see if you like I would just be so curious to see like if we look at all >> we look like. Yeah.
>> Um, there is there is someone who has just been leaving the most lovely comments on YouTube, and I'm so sorry I'm blanking on your name right now, but your comments really make me laugh, but um they they were commenting the other day. They said, "I don't know which one is which. Short short hair sister or something like that."
>> That's me.
>> And I was like, "That one's Lizzy." Um, but it's it's so funny. But you can watch us on YouTube. Um, so it's you'll every once in a while you'll see Lizz's cats. Lizzie has two cats, Batman and Tay.
>> Batman is the one that is very social, so he's the one that you see on camera all the time. And >> his name his name is Batman because I did not want him to Well, not that I didn't want him. It was a litter of four cats that we found. I was just going to keep Taye, my girl, and there were three boys. We could not adopt him out though.
We found a set of twins to give the other two boys to, which was perfect.
So, they stayed together, but then nobody we couldn't find anybody to take him. And so, Batman was his filler name because they're like little black cats.
And at that point, I just kept him. And he had been Batman for so long. So, now his name is Batman. I did not choose it.
Okay.
>> Batman.
>> It's so true.
>> And I don't call him Batman. I call him B. Beame and I call him be baby.
>> It suits him though. I like it. It totally suit.
>> Was he >> He fights crime and saves Gotham. Okay, >> that's so true.
>> Was he Were those Was that the litter that dad found under the porch?
>> Yeah, we found we found under the porch >> of our family of our childhood home.
>> The cat distribution. There were three boys and one girl who was a runt and I wanted the runt and I was like really obsessed with you know what I'm still obsessed with BTS but I was like really into BTS and I was like I want to name this cat. I didn't know if she was a boy or a girl we know now but I was like okay a genderneutral BTS themed name.
One of the members name is Tay Young.
And I was like okay I'm going to call them Tay. And then I thought they were a boy for a while and I was like that's cute because the actual Tay is a boy.
And then I took took him took her to the vet again and they're like, "Actually, she's a girl." I was like, "Okay, well all good. She's still t >> um that's why the cat names don't match."
>> Yeah. Lizzie has two black cats. I would also like to have two black cats at some point. I would like to name them Hugan and Yunan.
>> Okay. But >> no, no, you're going to get those and then my two next cats cuz at some point I'm going to have to have four because they're these two are going to live forever. The next two that I get I'm going to name them doom and gloom and then it's just going to be four. Um, the reason that I don't have two cats right now though is because I have a um, shelter dog named Annie Oakley, who we were told is a medium size. I looked at her paws and I said >> big.
>> Um, no, she was I think she was like 12 weeks when we got her and she was already chunky. So, I was like, there's no way. So, we knew, we very much knew.
Um, but she's 80 lbs. She's just a society.
>> She's a minister to society. She's calm down.
>> Just she's just crazy.
>> She doesn't know how big she is. Um she has calmed down >> a lot in the last I mean she's getting there. We She's a year she's she turned a year old in September. So she's >> she is still just >> she's just a baby. Um but she is 18 months. She's like 18 months old. But I mean, she's we're getting to the end of the velociaptor phase, but she is um >> she's >> she would eat the cats.
>> She's just a nut. But um and not a very well-intentioned one. She loves everybody. She just is like she's just huge. She's a moose. She's like 80 lbs.
>> She's a moose. and she's undeterred by your attitude or what you >> she's like she's she'sn't like you might not want to be like laid on right now.
That's a personal problem.
>> And so it's just a very it's a very different environment for me to come into whenever I come to you because I alone with two cats and you know Sunday I didn't talk to any I didn't use my voice the entire day. I didn't utter a single sound until like 11 p.m. at night when somebody called me. And then I go to your house and the dog is everywhere.
The kids are everywhere. Kyle is using power tools.
He's using the blender.
Oh my god. Um Yeah. So I Yeah. So, there's >> music playing, the TV's on, there's an iPad going, the laundry machine is going, the dryer's beeping, the the dryer is offc center, so it's rattling around.
>> It's not offc center. It's just stacked.
But you I mean >> loud.
>> You're walking into an ADHD household, baby. That's And that's a normal night in my house. But anyway, um thank you guys so much for listening to us um break down this episode. We did do it in five episodes, so I'm proud of us.
>> Pretty done with like the hurty hurty stuff. There's a couple >> guys. We've made it through the >> couple bad moments, but they're sandwiched by good moments. So like >> there we're chilling.
>> Now we're we're going to we've up and up.
>> We've moved through pain. Now Now it's time for healing, you know, >> a new era. moved. It's We've moved through the We've We've made it through the the the darkest night and now the sun's going to start coming up. But thank you guys again for for hanging with us. Um we appreciate you.
Appreciate all the nice comments and um and how much y'all love the show and um and geek out with us. So, thank you again so much. We are going to, as is tradition, um, do a Q&A episode in between this episode and episode >> Mhm.
>> five or when we begin our coverage of episode 5. We will have a special guest next week. Um, it's a secret, but we will have special guests next week. Um, we like to hang out with our friends, so we will do another Q&A episode. So, we will have a Q&A post posted so you guys have some time to send in your questions and then we will we will have that Q&A episode and then we'll get into episode 5 which I think is for going to get real [ __ ] weird about episode five. Let me tell you that much right now. But, um just a word of caution for not this week. This week I think we'll be fine.
But next week we're we're we're doing our best to post on time, guys. We're doing I promise we're doing our best. But next week, the week the episode that'll drop on the 15th. That one bear with us. I have one, two, three. I have like four events that week. And so please, please bear with us. We'll we'll hearing about this.
>> It'll go up when it goes up. Um but it'll be fine.
But I will be actually in Nashville the weekend of May 16th. So if you are in that area, I'm going to be doing a couple I'm going to I'm working with a local bookstore.
>> Okay.
>> But um keep an eye on my Instagram and I will keep you guys in details. But if you are in the Nashville area, I'm going to be in town and um Oh my god.
>> Are you going to go to Gus's Is there a Gusas in Nashville?
>> I'm sure there is. Nashville is less than two hours from Memphis.
>> I hadn't even considered that there would be a Gus's in Nashville. That's >> Hold on, let me verify.
>> If there isn't one, I'm going to be really upset. I just want to I just want to preface that.
>> Yeah, there is. Oh my god, I'm pumped. It's exciting. It's a game changer.
>> Yeah.
>> Augustus Fried Chicken in Nashville.
>> Yeah.
>> [ __ ] yeah.
>> Well, that just made my day. Very excited about that.
But yeah. Oh, hold on. One thing, one more thing before we break. There was actually, no, I'm going to save it for the Q&A. Somebody left me a very insightful Instagram comment. I'm going to save it for the Q&A.
>> Yeah, I know what you're talking about.
>> Um, but you guys are so smart. Thank you guys again so much for listening to us.
We love you. Thanks for hanging out with us during this episode. This I know it's a lot to get through and it's a lot of heavy stuff. So, thank you. Um, but we're going to start getting into episode 5. I'm going to get real weird about episode 5. It is my favorite. It's all the [ __ ] that I get really weird about, which is a lot of character development and stuff. So anyway, look forward to that.
All right, y'all. We love you. Talk to you soon. Bye.
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