41 And All ALONE! CALL IN SHOW

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[00:00:00]Okay, I guess let me start by reading the little email that I sent you to summarize what what my issue is here.

[00:00:08]Yep. And yeah, just remember it's a public call, so if you could stay off names and places, I'd appreciate it.

[00:00:13]So go ahead.

[00:00:13]>> Yes.

[00:00:14]No problem. I'm going to go and refer to these various relationships by using pseudonyms anyway. So hopefully that that just helps.

[00:00:24]Anyway, okay. So I've been mired in a deep depression for the last year after three failed relationships in a row.

[00:00:31]After each one ended, I had felt as if I could suck up the heartbreak and move on. But as the heartbreaks piled up, I felt like that moving on was impossible.

[00:00:41]It was made even worse by a rough financial patch brought on by a 30% pay cut amid work slowdown.

[00:00:47]At the time of the first relationship, I had been undergoing a period of massive self-improvement. Losing weight, working out, and building up my career. This depression has hit me hard and has set me back significantly. I've been dating more, sleeping less, and I've been binge eating to cope. And so I guess what I'm looking for is maybe some connections here that I'm missing or some insight that that only a philosopher could provide. Well, let's let's hope I can. Tell me a little bit about your life circumstances.

[00:01:21]Okay, so I'm 41 years old.

[00:01:24]I have a pretty good career going at the moment. But it's the kind of career that there's not a lot of money in it. It's more of a passion career than anything else.

[00:01:35]But I love it and so I'm living in a wonderful place. I have money's slowly coming in, slowly getting better.

[00:01:42]And uh over the last 10 years, I think uh my dating life has been really tough.

[00:01:50]I've I've kind of gone through these little cycles where I'll actively go and join meet-up groups and do activities to try to meet women and I'll connect with a woman and then I'll I'll kind of try to suss out like what her values are and what I found out pretty quickly is a lot of the women have totally different value systems and yeah, I'd like to have kids and settle down and get married and that just doesn't seem to be on the agenda for most of these women. So the relationships that I've >> I'm sorry, what ages and filters are you using?

[00:02:24]So I'm since I'm 40, I'm kind of going you know, between 30 and 40. And for filters, I I I did some of the online dating, but I think I had more success with the in-person things like events, meet-up groups that have shared interests.

[00:02:42]Hopefully that would be a good starting point to to meet somebody.

[00:02:46]Does that make sense?

[00:02:47]Got it. Okay, go ahead.

[00:02:49]So where where this this drama starts was that I met this woman, 32-year-old woman, whom I'm going to call Winter for the sake of this conversation. When I first met her, she had been married to a man for 7 years, but they were in a trial separation and she had moved across the country to live in the town that I live in.

[00:03:15]Sorry, trial separation, so she was still married and she might have returned.

[00:03:19]Correct, yes. But at this point, she had already moved several states away and when I met her, it seemed like the relationship was on the way out. And we work together and that's how I met her and we we kind of started off with just cuz we work very closely together, we developed a really good rapport and that turned into some light flirting and a lot of socializing. She was new to town, so I introduced her to my friends group. And things were were developing to the point where we started hanging out outside of work a lot. And then we had introduced her to a couple friend of mine. We'll call them Bob and Summer.

[00:04:03]And we started doing couples things together. So Bob and Summer and and me and Winter. And we would go to bars, we would go out to eat, we'd go do various artsy activities and things in town. To the point where it's like it was pretty obvious like we both liked each other a lot and so we got to a point where we were hanging out a lot outside of work by ourselves too, just doing things together like cooking meals and going to museums and things like that. And we >> About two months.

[00:04:36]And in this two months, like we got close to the point where we actually kissed. And I pulled back a little bit because I was uncomfortable with the ambiguity of her marriage still. Like she's even though she's separated and living in a completely different state, I just didn't feel comfortable with that. So I talked to her about it and I said, look, you know, I'd prefer if you ended the relationship with your husband so we could move on cleanly and I'm not really into infidelity or or being the guy, the home wrecker, you know.

[00:05:09]So she was like, okay, I'm going to talk to him about it. She talked to him I guess a couple days later after that and he freaked out.

[00:05:20]He quit his job. He decided to come move to where we are. And he showed up at her doorstep unannounced and was like, I we got to fix this. And so she decided that she was going to give it a try, try to fix it with him. So she ended our relationship even though we work together still, which has been really difficult, but um But all you had done thus far was go to some museums and kiss a bit, is that right?

[00:05:45]Yes. Like you hadn't slept together or anything like that. Correct.

[00:05:48]>> Okay.

[00:05:49]So that's kind of that relationship.

[00:05:52]Do you have any questions or should I just move on to the next?

[00:05:56]>> Okay, so the next one was after I was feeling a little bit down from Winter, I met a woman at church.

[00:06:04]I'm going to call her Autumn. And I I did intentionally kind of choose the seasons because of their personalities here. So maybe that could be a layer of of that. But Autumn was 40 years old at the time. I was also 40. She's very attractive, kind of a mysterious woman that a lot of the guys in my church I met her at church.

[00:06:24]>> Sorry, Han, she's 40. I thought you said you wanted to kids.

[00:06:29]I did. So not too much.

[00:06:32]I mean you can't start dating a [clears throat] woman at 40 and hope to get kids.

[00:06:35]>> Right. I mean by some potential miracle, sure, but you could win the lottery too, right?

[00:06:40]Right, you're 100% right on that.

[00:06:42]>> kids wasn't high priority and listen, I'm not criticizing. I just want to make sure I understand what your priorities are. Right. Okay, go ahead.

[00:06:49]So with her, she would never really I'm Catholic and so she would come to mass and then she would kind of disappear. She'd go she'd leave and in my church, everybody sticks around and talks a lot after mass.

[00:07:02]>> Oh, that's why you said she was mysterious. Yes. Yeah, and she was the kind of she was attractive enough that almost all the guys in the church noticed her. And I'm sorry, so have you always been Catholic?

[00:07:14]Yes. So how do you end up in your 40s, Catholic and unmarried?

[00:07:19]Well, to be honest, I did go through probably about 12 years of an atheist phase.

[00:07:26]Right about the time I started listening to your show back when you were doing podcasts in the car. Okay, got it.

[00:07:33]So I I separated from the church because I kind of rationalized you know, you've made great arguments about the existence of God and I I really strongly believed in those arguments as well.

[00:07:49]And I only kind of went back to Catholicism during COVID because of the it's actually something else you you said too of of kind of finding your group and and when times get tough.

[00:08:01]And I found a group of of men at this church that were reliable um self-reliant kind of people. So if the world was going to end, these would be the kind of people you want to be around, you know. They're good, moral people with good backgrounds and so I thought, okay, I can I can kind of go back to my roots a little bit. Well, sorry, but during the I guess you were You said you meant 10 to 12 years until until when? Until COVID, right? Yes.

[00:08:35]Okay, so from sort of mid to late 20s, you were so mid-20s to mid-30s and then COVID. And what happened with your dating life mid-20s to mid-30s?

[00:08:47]I was foolish. I I kind of slept around.

[00:08:52]I got into a lot of short-term relationships.

[00:08:56]Just didn't see any >> Ah, so you were a selective listener.

[00:08:59]Yes, I was.

[00:09:01]>> if I gave you a path away from the strictures of religion, you were keen, but if I said don't sleep around, you didn't want to listen to that, right?

[00:09:10]That's correct.

[00:09:10]>> Okay, got it. Just just checking. Go ahead.

[00:09:12]And another fault here in my in in myself here is I listened to your show, but I always listened to the content that was more political and kind of turned off the the one-on-one calls, which was now looking back on it a huge mistake. I only started listening to the the personal calls back in 2020 after your deplatforming. I really like you a lot.

[00:09:38]So I followed you. I was one of those people that followed you one web website over.

[00:09:42]>> Ah, thank you. And you're welcome. And I started listening to the the personal calls and that's when it really clicked is there's more to this than politics and and libertarian ethics.

[00:09:55]So I I relate to the game in that sense that I've been a fan of yours for a long time, but I just never dived into the the really important content. No, it's it's actually kind of common that and you know, don't feel bad. It's pretty common that I hear people were like, "Yeah, I kept skipping over the Colin shows like, why is this guy talking about this stuff?" And then later when my life wasn't working out, I went back to the Colin shows. I'm like, "Oh, that's why."

[00:10:19]Yes. And I if if I could give any piece of advice to anybody who's listening, definitely go back and listen to the Colin shows because there's so much and I and to a certain degree I feel a little embarrassed by bringing this up because I should have known better. At that point from 2020 to the events of these three relationship was started all about 2024. So, I really should have known better.

[00:10:46]Well, it's funny because you'll listen to me about God and religion and philosophy, but not the the Colin shows are important. Which is again, fine.

[00:10:54]I've I've had my own selective listening with philosophy, so I'm not going to lord it over anyone, but anyway, go ahead.

[00:10:59]So, to get back into the relationship with Autumn, so what happened with that is since I had been working out, it was a noticeable change for me. Like my I've always been kind of a big framed guy, but after I was working out, my arms particularly got pretty muscular and I I like to wear short sleeve shirts. So, So, it was I think it was one of those things that she noticed that. And she was like, "Okay, he looks like a big strong guy." So, she approached me after mass one day and asked if I would be interested in helping her move out of her apartment. And she offered to pay.

[00:11:37]Yeah, she offered to pay. Yes, but she was she specifically sought me out because she was like, "You look like a really strong guy and you can help with that." And so, I was like, "Okay, you know, sure, why not?" And as we were moving her apartment, um I guess we just we connected. We talked a lot even though it was kind of a dirty sweaty kind of thing, um that was something that turned her on.

[00:12:02]And later on that night after the whole moving had taken place, she started texting me a lot and she was she complimented me and and I think that was part of the reason why I started to fall for her was the the compliments, the "Oh, you're a strong guy. It was really nice to see you lifting all these heavy things."

[00:12:24]And that that kind of short-circuited my brain. So, the rational side was kind of taken a backseat there.

[00:12:31]And I asked her out on a date. The date went really well. We had a good time.

[00:12:36]And then after the date, she texted me more and more including texting me a song that had very romantic lyrics to it about how the the singer was interested in this guy, but she wasn't sure if she could open her heart to him, but she really wanted to open her heart to him. So, I was like, "Okay, this could be really interesting."

[00:12:56]Um Then here's where it gets really embarrassing is we had a second date and on the second date, I showed up to the date. She invited me over to her to her apartment and then we would go get dinner from there.

[00:13:09]And I showed up to her apartment and she was She had left the door open. She told me to come in. I came in and she was laying on her couch face down in her underwear and being like really depressive.

[00:13:24]And so, I it was kind of awkward and weird, you know.

[00:13:26]Depressive like she was she looked like sick almost.

[00:13:30]Wait, she was lying face down on the couch in her underwear.

[00:13:34]I thought this was like the opening of some cheesy porno or something.

[00:13:38]>> [laughter] >> So, but she was depressed? Help me understand.

[00:13:41]Yeah, I I So, I walk in. I was like, "What's going on?" I thought we were, you know, are you ready to go out? We were going to go get some burgers.

[00:13:48]And she was like, "Look, I'm really feeling depressed right now. I'm kind of sad." And she told me that she goes through these manic depressive cycles because she's bipolar.

[00:14:00]And so, I'm kind of stuck where I don't know what to do.

[00:14:03]So, I I sat down and tried to Well, I'm I I >> Sure you should I I know you're in your 40s, man. Don't don't play dumb. I don't know what to do with the hot bipolar girl.

[00:14:16]>> [snorts] >> Well, yes, but I I do have boundaries, right? I wasn't going to take advantage of this weird situation. So, I'm not saying to take advantage of her.

[00:14:27]Yeah. If you could go back in time, what advice would you give yourself in that moment?

[00:14:33]Boy, I would probably say look, I'm sorry, you know, you're depressed. I I don't know what to do. I don't think going on a date right now would be a good idea. So, maybe, you know, we can find something else to do or or try another time.

[00:14:51]The girl just the woman just confessed to a serious mental illness. Yeah.

[00:14:57]If you could go back in time, what would you suggest you do?

[00:15:02]Run.

[00:15:03]Yeah, be nice, you know, whatever, right? But you can't fix that. You can't fix that. Yeah.

[00:15:08]I mean, you know, maybe sit and chat with her for a little bit and you know, "Gosh, I'm so sorry." And you know, maybe we'll pick this up some other time and then, you know, like she's got to go deal with a therapist or I don't know, whatever. It's I don't know what you do with bipolar.

[00:15:20]But what you don't do is try and live with it.

[00:15:24]Yeah.

[00:15:25]And and I I didn't at the at the time I didn't really I tried to give her a pep talk like just try to get her spirits up. And we did end up going out to get something to eat and at the end of that >> My apologies.

[00:15:40]Oh, no. You tried to get I'm sorry.

[00:15:41]Don't mean to laugh. My apologies.

[00:15:43]That's very rude. You tried to give the bipolar girl a pep talk?

[00:15:47]Well, I I didn't know what to do. I'd never been in a situation like that. So, I didn't want to just be like, "Peace out. I'm I'm gone." You know. So, I sat down and tried to >> I I understand wanting to get out, maybe give her some positive vibes, but did you give her a pep talk to get her out of the date like that was going to fix her?

[00:16:04]I thought maybe it might. I didn't really understand the situation.

[00:16:08]>> I'm laughing. Yeah, yeah, I understand.

[00:16:10]Hey, you've been bipolar for probably 30 or 40 years, but don't worry, the only thing you've been missing is a pep talk from me.

[00:16:19]This is why I wanted to have this call because I knew you were going to say things that I should have No, listen. And if you weren't a long-term listener, I'd be much more gentle.

[00:16:31]No, you can be as as harsh as you need to be, Stef. I think I I I can I can take it.

[00:16:37]>> Oh, no. I I I know you can and I'm pretty good at gauging these things, but it's like I can fix bipolar with a pep talk is really something, man.

[00:16:45]Especially when you've listened to Colin shows and you've understood how deep and intractable these mental issues are.

[00:16:52]No, you're right. But hey, man, buck up, sister.

[00:16:56]>> [laughter] >> She's going to be fine and totally screwable. Anyway, go ahead.

[00:17:01]Yeah, um this is why it it I feel embarrassed to to talk about it, but I think I need to >> Hey, hey, if you have appendicitis, no problem, man. I'll just keep saying bad appendicitis and it's going to go away.

[00:17:13]Anyway, go on. Sorry. I I could keep doing that for a while, but it would get mean after a while. So, go ahead.

[00:17:17]I appreciate it. Um So, after that uh uh we went I went home and the next day I just texted her like, "Hey, how you doing? You doing okay?"

[00:17:28]She ghosted me for a couple of days like three or four days.

[00:17:31]>> I'm sorry. Sorry, did you go on the date? I I can't remember. Yes, we did.

[00:17:34]We went out to eat and then I brought her back to her apartment and then I left. Okay, good. And did you make out or did you kiss her or how did things go from a romantic standpoint?

[00:17:45]It was not romantic. It was at that point more just like taking a friend out who's having a bad day.

[00:17:52]So, okay. So, then she ghosted you. Yeah.

[00:17:55]She ghosted me and then when she did reach out, she reached out kind of in an angry fashion saying like Well, to be fair, you don't know which personality ghosted you.

[00:18:05]That's true.

[00:18:07]That's so true.

[00:18:08]Uh she texted like this angry rant about like, "Well, you're you're supposed to be a Catholic guy. You're supposed to be upstanding and you come to my apartment on the second date, you know."

[00:18:19]And just kind of like just being really harsh and saying like >> you to her apartment?

[00:18:24]She did, yes. Okay, so she's not just bipolar, she's also bipolar, deranged and abusive.

[00:18:31]Yes. Well, you know what that means?

[00:18:34]Means it's time for another pep talk.

[00:18:36]I know.

[00:18:38]Uh At that point I was like with her.

[00:18:41]>> No, no. At that point I was like, "Okay, >> that much. Okay, go ahead. Uh go, you know, that's fine. You need to work on yourself, whatever. We left it that way.

[00:18:51]And she had stopped going to church at that point.

[00:18:53]So, it was a couple months uh and then this was probably this I'd say this was like May or June. And then in September, she showed up at church again.

[00:19:04]And she came up to talk to me and told me this story about how she'd been working on herself and taking medications and seeing a therapist and just getting herself into a better state of mind.

[00:19:17]So, I was like, "Okay, we started hanging out again."

[00:19:21]Uh it was at first it was just like, "Let's go get some lunch after church."

[00:19:25]Something like that. And then it developed into more romantic kind of thing.

[00:19:30]And uh so, she was fixed in how long after she ranted at you?

[00:19:35]This would be like four months. Okay.

[00:19:38]All right, so maybe she did some intensive therapy or whatever. Okay.

[00:19:41]Right.

[00:19:42]So, during the course of it, I I completely got sucked into how attractive she was and how exciting it was to have a relationship. Um so, again, I I completely ignored all the red flags. And the deeper the relationship went, the more she started revealing about herself and her mental illness and past uh physical and sexual abuse and a a drug addiction and a sex addiction.

[00:20:12]And I completely ignored all of those things um until about February of 2025 when she decided to just like pick up and move to a whole 'nother city just completely on a whim and didn't tell me she was going to do it and I just got a text from her saying, "Hey, by the way, >> another guy to help her move. Sorry, go on.

[00:20:36]>> [snorts] >> Maybe. Um and so she just up and and left and the only thing I got from her was a text message saying, "Hey, you're a great guy, you're wonderful, but I need a change of scene."

[00:20:47]Right. I mean, this is what crazy people do is they burn out all of their victims in some neighborhood, they got to move someplace new.

[00:20:54]Yes.

[00:20:56]So, after that, I still I was feeling pretty bad, but I still, you know, kept up with my workout routine and just trying to focus on um getting better overall for myself.

[00:21:08]And at this time, this was about the beginning of 2025, so January, February, um my one of my close friends, uh we'll call him Bob, uh the one that was married to Summer.

[00:21:20]Bob and Summer split up and that was a rough one for me because I had been friends with them for since 2020.

[00:21:29]And uh we we were doing so many things as couples and and even outside of me being in relationship, I was hanging out with them quite frequently, like several times a month.

[00:21:40]Um and with Summer, I had a crush on her going back >> What did What did Bob and Summer think of Bipolar Babe?

[00:21:48]They didn't like her much at all.

[00:21:50]Okay.

[00:21:51]And it it was kind of the the only time So, um the first time, let's say let's go back to uh like October, November of 2024, is um the first time they met um Autumn, the bipolar woman. And it was a pleasant experience. We were hanging out, we had a big friends group over. And so it was a pleasant >> Sorry, and you hadn't told them about her sexual abuse, sex addiction, drug addiction, and all that sort of stuff.

[00:22:22]Correct. Okay, so you were hiding things from them. Yes.

[00:22:27]Yes.

[00:22:28]Okay. And um so, we had uh the next time we we actually had gone out as a couple would be me and Autumn and and Bob and Summer. We went out to a vineyard uh nearby and we we spent the whole day together and that was when I kind of noticed something was off about Autumn.

[00:22:46]And the only one that ever said anything to me about it was Summer. She was like, "Oh, you know, Autumn's a little bit weird, like you know, what's going on with that?"

[00:22:55]And I really didn't know how to respond to that. Um So, I kind of just said, "Well, yeah, she's she's going through some Well, I think to to what you said, I was hiding things, like I I was embarrassed by just saying the truth that she has addictions that she's battling.

[00:23:11]So, I just said, "Well, she's going through a lot."

[00:23:13]>> I mean, you can't say to me, "I didn't know how to respond." You can say, "I chose to keep lying."

[00:23:20]Yeah, that's I mean, I can't I can't treat you as some 16-year-old leaf in the wind, right? You're a middle-aged man. Who's listened to philosophy for uh 15 years, right?

[00:23:31]Right. More, 17 years. Okay.

[00:23:34]So, you're just going to have to, you know, just so we don't waste time, just try and avoid the weasel no accountability words. Well, I just didn't know how to what to say. It's like, you knew exactly what to say, you just chose to lie.

[00:23:46]Yes.

[00:23:47]And I'm not saying that in any condemnation way. I just just striving for accuracy and and self-ownership. But sorry, go ahead.

[00:23:54]No, that makes perfect sense. I I don't I don't take it as anything hostile.

[00:23:58]So, um so, let me give you I need to kind of give you a little bit of a backstory with with Summer.

[00:24:06]Summer, I met her in 2020 when she started dating my friend Bob. And I had instantly had a crush on her since then.

[00:24:13]Um she's an attractive woman, blonde, blue eyes, fit, um just the kind of woman that also has a very warm personality and she's kind of flirty. So, um we had I had this crush on her You know, filtered for morals really at all as far as like a tall, blonde, friendly, pretty, hot, bipolar. I mean, you So, listen, and it's fine, I'm just pointing it out.

[00:24:37]So, you don't accept, and there's no reason why you should. I mean, it's not automatically I'm right or something, but you don't accept my argument that love is our response to virtues. If they're virtuous, you look for, you know, pretty, friendly, hot, fun, you know, that kind of stuff, right? And and I'm just pointing it out. Yes. That you have differed or you've gone a very different direction from my advice.

[00:25:05]Yes. Um I'd say one caveat here is just that at the time I wasn't actually going to pursue a relationship with Summer just because >> No, but you said why you had a crush on her, like you're 14 or something instead of 41.

[00:25:19]Right, right. No, I I see what you're saying. Yes. Um there I did think she she had a set of morals as her relationship with Bob developed.

[00:25:28]Uh I thought at least from what she was telling me, which again is not I I wasn't filtering for what she actually was doing or what she was saying.

[00:25:38]>> run that through a potential test. And I'm not disagreeing with you, maybe she's a a super moral woman, but when she noticed that Bipolar Babe was weird and you guys split her because you knew how weird she was, but you didn't want to tell Summer that, right? Yes, correct. So, did she continue to probe?

[00:25:58]Did she say, "Is there anything you're not telling me? Or is there anything you know about her background? Or do you know anything about her childhood or her youth?" Or like anything? Like did she probe? Did she cuz, you know, this woman could have been seriously dangerous to you.

[00:26:09]I mean, this is the kind of person who turns into a stalker or gives you a false essay allegation or something like that, right? So, uh your friend Summer, did she look out for you? Did she probe? Did she try and find out more? Did she even notice that you were lying?

[00:26:25]No, she didn't.

[00:26:26]Okay, so not that caring cuz caring people, uh if you're around a dangerous woman, caring people would try to help you, right?

[00:26:35]Right. And something else that I I noticed is none of my other none of my male friends said anything either.

[00:26:42]Right. Okay. I mean, so that's a consequence of the people you choose to have in your life.

[00:26:46]Yes. All right. Okay, so you got the crush on Summer, she breaks up with Bob, and then what?

[00:26:51]And then I reached out to Summer uh just through text saying like, "Hey, I know it's weird." Um they had gotten married and then divorced and um I was like, "Well, you know, we were friends. I'd I'd like to hang out with you regardless of what happens."

[00:27:06]And uh she said, "Yeah, she'd really like to hang out with me as well." Wait, doesn't the divorce takes long time, doesn't it? Yes, they separated in January and the divorce didn't go through until like uh May.

[00:27:19]Really?

[00:27:19]>> But they did separated like left um you know, moved into separate places and all of that kind of thing.

[00:27:27]And why did they divorce?

[00:27:30]They divorced because there's a couple things. Um I I I heard both sides of the story from from both of them. And there are parts where they jive and what what happened was that uh Summer could not she had a an issue that she could not bear children.

[00:27:46]And so Bob was kind of in the mood where he was like, "Well, I really want to have kids, so I don't see a point of being married if we're if we're not going to have kids."

[00:27:55]And then instead of that, they discovered over the course of the marriage? Yes, they didn't know that had happened.

[00:27:59]>> Okay, I mean, that's that's really tragic and there may be every honorable person Sorry, every person might still be perfectly honorable in that situation, so that's just really tragic.

[00:28:08]So, I get that. Go ahead.

[00:28:09]Yes. Um but they didn't decide to get divorced because of that right away. Um what ended up happening is they kind of grew distant with each other.

[00:28:18]And then uh Summer had a hobby that was she's a competitive dancer as a hobby and she started dancing more and more and uh then started a sexting relationship with a guy that she danced with.

[00:28:32]And in such an obvious way that that Bob picked up on it. Hang on.

[00:28:37]So, she cheated.

[00:28:38]Yes.

[00:28:39]In that modern digital manner. Okay.

[00:28:42]Right. So, when she she she never Yeah, she claims she never actually slept with the guy or did anything.

[00:28:48]>> Nah, that's a technicality. Anyway, Yeah, I I agree with you on that. It it was sketchy nonetheless, but um I was like, "Oh, okay." You know, once I I heard that story, I was like, "Well, that sucks."

[00:29:00]Um Summer and I went out to dinner and we connected really well. Like there was this kind of electric energy between us that I hadn't felt Oh, yeah, that's called lust. Yeah, got it. Yeah, and >> a professional dancer or competitive dancer, so I assume she's got a nice figure and so yeah, there's lust.

[00:29:18]Yes. You've got big arms, she's got tight buns, and away to the races.

[00:29:22]Yes.

[00:29:24]Um when you put it that way, it does sound uh yeah, it's >> Well, you you all this electric energy stuff, I mean, it's just lust, right? I mean, look, I have no problem with lust.

[00:29:32]I think that's great. But, you know, should also throw a little bit of virtue in there, too.

[00:29:36]Yes, I agree.

[00:29:38]And um I I I realize my actions don't jive with that. No, no, you don't agree with me, which is again, fine.

[00:29:46]You know, I when I say you don't agree with me, I don't mean that in any negative way. It's just a fact. Like you've heard me make the case as to what sustainable virtue and relationships are. I've been married for 23, 24 years despite coming from a terrible childhood.

[00:30:00]And but I have not convinced you of that. So again, that's fine. Like you don't have to be convinced of anything from me, but you you don't accept that.

[00:30:09]Yeah, I don't think that's fair to say.

[00:30:12]Okay, so what happened with Summer?

[00:30:15]Um so we started dating more frequently and then that developed into a romantic and sexual relationship.

[00:30:21]With Bob, did you just break things off with him or Uh no, I just I um stopped hanging out with him for a while. I mean, you just kind of ghosted him, right?

[00:30:30]Yes, I I hid it from him.

[00:30:32]You hid it?

[00:30:34]Yeah, I didn't tell him about it. Okay.

[00:30:36]And also, so you don't really care that much about having kids because you have a relationship with the 40-plus bipolar woman and now you're having a relationship with a woman who's infertile.

[00:30:48]Yes.

[00:30:49]Okay, so you're just thinking with your dick.

[00:30:51]Yes. Okay, got it. So go ahead.

[00:30:54]Uh so that relationship progressed until probably about beginning of June.

[00:31:01]And we had like again it was it was this Uh 2025. Got it. Okay.

[00:31:07]So I was trying to The the relationship was a little bit ambiguous, you know, there was no commitment yet.

[00:31:13]>> so I didn't quite catch that. It was a little fast. The relationship what?

[00:31:16]>> Well, the relationship was ambiguous in that there was no commitment to saying like, "Okay, you're my boyfriend and we're going to move in together or something like that.

[00:31:26]We're going >> Wait, so like it was like friends with benefits?

[00:31:28]Yes. Okay.

[00:31:30]So I kind of brought it up. I put it I wanted to have that conversation with her. And I I told her I was like, "Let's have this conversation. Let's make dinner together. Let's Let's you know, do something where we can just be together alone and talk."

[00:31:47]And she decided to sabotage that by asking if she could invite a friend.

[00:31:53]And so I said, "Okay, you know, do I know this friend? Like who is this person?"

[00:31:58]And she said, "Well, it's this guy I I dance with but he's no nobody important. No no big deal." Oh, not the guy she was sexting with?

[00:32:05]I have no idea if it was the same guy.

[00:32:08]And do you know what happened to the sexting relationship?

[00:32:10]As far as I know, it was over. Okay.

[00:32:13]But again, that's what she told me, so I don't know if she was being honest about it.

[00:32:18]So at that point, I I said, "No, I I can't do this anymore. You know, I think this is I I don't do well with this ambigu- ambiguity and I need to know like if we're going to be really in a relationship, then we need to commit to something."

[00:32:31]>> How long was she married to Bob?

[00:32:33]Uh 2 years.

[00:32:35]Okay. And how old is she?

[00:32:37]Uh 33. Got it. Okay.

[00:32:39]Yeah.

[00:32:40]So at that point, she responded to saying, "Look, I can't I don't have the emotional capacity to do any any any thing to anybody right now."

[00:32:49]Well, I mean, of course not, right?

[00:32:50]She's just gone through a divorce. She's not going to be emotionally available for at least a year.

[00:32:55]Yeah.

[00:32:56]But you had already slept together, right?

[00:32:58]Okay.

[00:33:00]So yeah, that that that's it. That's kind of the 30,000-foot view of those relationships.

[00:33:07]Oh, so you broke up with Summer.

[00:33:09]Yes.

[00:33:10]Okay. And since then, you haven't dated?

[00:33:12]Correct. All right.

[00:33:14]So how can I best help you?

[00:33:17]Well, I think I need to understand why the the Maybe this is a stupid question, but why the lust part of my brain takes over from the rational side of the brain when I can rationalize when I can understand really complex things like the existence of God or deeper philoso- philosophical things.

[00:33:38]Why is it that I keep falling into this pattern?

[00:33:42]And I mean, you already kind of pointed out a couple of things about like whether or not I'm being serious about wanting to have kids. Okay, so let me ask you this.

[00:33:53]If you were hearing this story and there were no ages or dates involved. Dated this crazy girl, dated a girl who just broke up with my best friend and you know, and and we slept together right away and then I you know, I tried to figure what what mental age would you say someone telling these stories would be if you didn't know anything else?

[00:34:14]Um 25. Not even. This is teen stuff.

[00:34:19]Um Yeah, this is like high school stuff.

[00:34:21]Interesting.

[00:34:22]I mean, this is so so I what I would first the first place that I would go is try and figure out what happened to you around the ages of 15 to 18 that may have got you stuck at least in this part of your life.

[00:34:34]Yeah.

[00:34:35]So what was going on mid to late teens for you?

[00:34:38]Um My parents got divorced when I was 10.

[00:34:42]And the drama between that kind of dragged on for a bit into my late teen years. So um Wait, they spent 8 or 9 years getting divorced?

[00:34:51]No, they got divorced but there was drama in the sense that like my parents were still fighting even though they were divorced.

[00:34:56]Um then my dad remarried and um I had to deal with a stepfamily and so there was a lot of drama with that.

[00:35:04]Sorry, you had to deal with his stepfamily or he did?

[00:35:07]Well, my dad's new family. I had to deal with them because I still had to see my dad. Does that make sense?

[00:35:14]Yeah, okay, got it.

[00:35:17]Okay, so they you got they separated when you were 10 but they were still fighting into your late teens.

[00:35:23]Yes.

[00:35:24]Were they fighting about money or custody or something else?

[00:35:27]Uh custody mostly.

[00:35:30]You know, my mom had wanted to move to a different state and my dad didn't want that to happen. So they they got into arguments about that. My mom was always trash-talking my dad.

[00:35:40]Um so you know, stuff stuff like that.

[00:35:45]Okay. Um what's the status of your relationship with your parents now?

[00:35:49]Uh my relationship with my dad has gotten much better.

[00:35:52]Um he apologized for all of the pain and suffering caused by the divorce.

[00:35:59]Um and he you know, he recognized his flaws and so he he worked really hard when I was in the my late teens into college years to reconcile that relationship to to make as much restitution as he could by spending more time with me.

[00:36:14]>> Yeah. Okay, sorry, go ahead. Like I was spending more time with me, trying to as best as possible like try to make up for the the time lost in that So he tried to fix his parenting when you became an adult.

[00:36:28]Yes. Okay.

[00:36:30]I mean, a little late, right?

[00:36:32]Yeah, of course. Yeah.

[00:36:34]Uh and then my mom has always been kind of very distant um very emotionally unavailable.

[00:36:40]Um she got an Oh god, it's a whole like can of worms.

[00:36:47]I'll try to make it concise but just stop me if you if nothing makes sense to you here.

[00:36:52]Um but my mom had an older sister and my mom's mother, my grandmother, were very controlling people and they controlled my mom a lot.

[00:37:01]They took my mom's attention a lot and so as a kid growing up, I never really had my mom's full attention.

[00:37:08]So my relationship with my mom is still kind Sorry, I mean, you went you went passive there, right? Like they took your mom's attention therefore you didn't have it. No, your mom was an adult. She could have given her attention to whoever she wanted.

[00:37:20]Right.

[00:37:21]So your mom chose to neglect you.

[00:37:23]Yes. Okay, just just checking cuz it get a little rubber bones there, but go on.

[00:37:28]Sorry about that. And and kind of go I think something else is important to to mention here is going back to when I was a real little kid. Um my mom is a boomer and and did the whole boomer thing in the '80s of being a career woman.

[00:37:42]And so I have these distinct memories of being a little kid and my mom like on a Sunday night um my mom would go to work the next morning and I would just get completely wrecked with with um emotions and like feeling like um you know, she was abandoning me.

[00:38:01]Sorry, I I read peaceful parenting and I mean, no, she kind of was. Listen, brother, I I sympathize with the emotion. I really do. Go ahead.

[00:38:09]So I don't think I ever really got over that, honestly. Um It's still tough to think about and yeah, um so my my relationship with my mom is still kind of distant. She lives in a different state now and we we talk once a week on the phone but it's never really much >> No, that's that's that's close. That's that's a lot of conversation. And I'm it's not a criticism. I'm just saying that speaking once a week is quite a lot.

[00:38:37]Yeah.

[00:38:39]But it never gets to the point of of of talking about anything important. It's all just like, "You know, what did you do this week?"

[00:38:45]>> you you use the passive voice a lot. So you choose not to bring up serious topics.

[00:38:51]I do bring up serious topics but then she deflects.

[00:38:55]Okay, but then you don't continue to pursue that serious topic and say, "Hey Mom, you're kind of deflecting" and so on, right?

[00:39:00]Yes.

[00:39:01]Okay.

[00:39:03]So if your relationships with your parents are healed, why you making such bad relationship decisions?

[00:39:09]I mean, in such obviously bad relationship decisions.

[00:39:12]Right.

[00:39:14]Um How pretty was your mom when she was younger?

[00:39:18]She was very pretty. Right.

[00:39:19]So your dad married her. Why?

[00:39:23]I I don't know the real answer. All I know is she tells >> you absolutely know the real you absolutely know the real answer. You know these people for 40 years.

[00:39:30]What's the Why did your father marry your mother? Not what he says, but what are the facts?

[00:39:35]Well, she's pretty.

[00:39:36]Um Yeah, I guess >> Lust.

[00:39:39]Yeah. Lust, right?

[00:39:42]I mean, did he like her as a person?

[00:39:44]I I I don't know. Honestly, I think so. I mean, >> Of course you know. Of course you know.

[00:39:50]They fought for how long? Yeah.

[00:39:52]Probably a good 8 years. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:39:55]So, did he like her as a person?

[00:39:58]No. No, he didn't like her as a person.

[00:40:01]How long were they married for?

[00:40:03]14 years before the divorce. Okay.

[00:40:06]And what is your memory of how they got along when you were young?

[00:40:11]Um kind of followed him, honestly.

[00:40:16]I remember I remember her saying >> giggling, hugging, kissing?

[00:40:19]I do.

[00:40:21]And I do I do remember seeing them really only fight maybe the last 2 years.

[00:40:26]And do you know what happened in their marriage that they started fighting more?

[00:40:31]Uh my dad cheated on her.

[00:40:33]Ah, okay. All right. And do you know why your dad cheated on her?

[00:40:38]I don't. Well, hang on. Hang on. I I don't want to say it was lust.

[00:40:41]>> on. Hang on. Hang on. So, you said that your dad apologized and made restitution, right? Oh, no. He apologized. So, what was his restitution? You said it was spending more time with you, right? Yes. Okay.

[00:40:52]Now, if your father has a weakness called lust, right? Yeah. And it sounds like he did. If he cheated on an attractive woman, that's probably lust, right?

[00:41:03]So, if your father I'm sorry, go ahead.

[00:41:07]>> The only reason I I don't want to say it was lust is because the woman he cheated on my mom with was not attractive at all.

[00:41:14]Yeah, but the purpose of lust isn't that you It's it's a weakness, right?

[00:41:18]I see. It's like saying everyone who's a glutton has to eat, you know, five-star food. It's like, no. Gluttons sometimes eat garbage, right?

[00:41:26]Right.

[00:41:27]So, if your father has a weakness called lust, then how should he or could he best help you in your life?

[00:41:40]He should have warned me about it and told me, you know, this is the dangers of of getting into a relationship based on lust.

[00:41:48]Right. Okay.

[00:41:50]And you said he got remarried, right?

[00:41:52]Yes. And did that remarriage last?

[00:41:55]No.

[00:41:56]Ah. And how attractive was the woman he was remarried to?

[00:42:00]Ooh, jeez. If I was going to um five out of 10.

[00:42:05]And how attractive was your dad when he was young?

[00:42:08]Um during the track, I'd say he's uh like an eight out of 10.

[00:42:13]Okay. So, your dad's attractive. And how long did the second marriage last?

[00:42:18]Let's see. From maybe 5 years.

[00:42:21]And did he cheat on her as well or was it something else?

[00:42:24]No. Um he just couldn't get along with her.

[00:42:28]She was a very difficult person to get along with.

[00:42:30]>> Ah. So, he would have sex with her, but he didn't like her as a person.

[00:42:35]Yes. Okay. But that's lust, right?

[00:42:37]Lust is holding your nose over the stink of the personality in order to have sex with the body.

[00:42:44]Right.

[00:42:45]Okay. Do you think that your father has any self-awareness about his flaws?

[00:42:50]Well, he must cuz he apologized to you, right?

[00:42:52]Yes. Okay. How has your father's life been in terms of dating since the second marriage?

[00:43:00]Um he he date he didn't date for for uh a while after that uh second marriage ended.

[00:43:07]And then when he did date he dated women or I guess at that time he was probably in his 50s.

[00:43:13]So, uh the women he dated were his age and they were uh kind of boring.

[00:43:19]Um there was one serious relationship that he's been in for probably six or seven years now. And this is a strange long-distance kind of relationship where she lives on the other side of the country and they only see each other maybe, you know, for 2 or 3 weeks every 6 months.

[00:43:37]Huh.

[00:43:38]Okay.

[00:43:40]So, what does he do with his sex drive?

[00:43:42]I don't know.

[00:43:44]I mean, honestly, it's usually sex with sex workers or pornography.

[00:43:50]I I don't know. Yeah, no. I'm just saying those are the likely answers. And he probably didn't go full monk mode, right?

[00:43:56]Okay. All right. So, you said he dated these boring women.

[00:44:01]So, again, women he didn't particularly like as people. They were just warm bodies to be around and to use, right?

[00:44:08]Right.

[00:44:09]Okay. So, is it fair to say that your father suffers with a problem of lust in that he doesn't choose a woman based upon the quality of her character, but rather the availability of her sexual organs.

[00:44:21]Yes.

[00:44:22]Okay. So, he should have helped you with that, right?

[00:44:25]Yeah.

[00:44:26]Okay. So, did when you were dating, did your father ever talk to you about who you were dating or meet them or see pictures?

[00:44:38]Yes, he did. Okay. And what advice did he give you?

[00:44:42]Um like kind of the the silly boomer kind of advice of like, well, don't you know, don't try too hard or um uh you don't want to be uh how do you put it? Like uh you don't want to be too obsessed with them.

[00:44:57]Um nothing the the advice >> stupid manipulative don't text back too quickly stuff?

[00:45:03]Yes, exactly. Well, that's just dumb.

[00:45:06]Right. None of the None of the advice he gave me I I really even consider advice cuz it just seems so kind of dumb. Okay.

[00:45:13]So, did you tell, let's say for instance, um give me an example of a woman in your 20s or maybe early 30s that you dated that you wish you'd gotten better advice about.

[00:45:26]Yes. Um there was this this woman that was uh she was a Catholic. She was very interested in getting married and at the time I was just not thinking that way. And I wish I had gotten some advice to say, okay, this woman has good virtues. She's not looking to um jump into something sexual. Uh she wants to have kids.

[00:45:49]This is This is the good quality woman you should be looking for. And why didn't you want to move forward with her?

[00:45:56]I I was the sex. She didn't want to have sex.

[00:45:59]Oh, okay. So, so she wouldn't satisfy the lust aspect, so you dump dumped her.

[00:46:06]Yes.

[00:46:07]Okay. Got it. Got it. All right.

[00:46:11]And what about a woman who was more negative that you wish you'd gotten better advice on?

[00:46:17]Yes. Um probably my college girlfriend.

[00:46:21]Um she was the kind of person that was very um she always insulted me. She always put me down.

[00:46:27]Um she just had a very mean personality.

[00:46:30]And again, nobody >> she?

[00:46:33]Uh probably average-looking.

[00:46:36]Like maybe a six out of 10. Okay.

[00:46:39]Um and I don't know looking back on it, too. I don't know why I think Okay. So, um I'm writing down some of these connections that you've made so far here and I think the statement you said earlier about just having a warm body, I think that was something that drew or like drove me in that college relationship.

[00:46:59]And listen, I say this with all humility, just just to be aware. I mean, I wasn't making wise choices when I was a teenager or in my early 20s dating, either, right? So, I I say this with no, well, you see, I've made great decisions from the age of 14 onwards. So, I just want to say this like with absolute humility and right down in there in the trenches with you, untutored idiot making bad choices based on superficial characteristics. So, I just don't want you to think that I'm coming from any place of superiority here. So, go ahead. I I really appreciate that. Um but this connection is really something now that I'm seeing that also ties into these other three relationships.

[00:47:36]And and also ties into patterns that my dad made, too.

[00:47:40]It wasn't about the quality of their character.

[00:47:43]And so But I also didn't have a father. I had a mother who'd been institutionalized and was completely off the wall. So, I didn't have two parents who could have given me good advice. So, just wanted to uh mention that. But but and that's not to make you feel bad. It's to put the spotlight more on your parents.

[00:48:04]Right. And I think that stings a lot for me is knowing that my dad could have given me this advice. No, no. Should Should have given you good advice.

[00:48:12]That's basic to parenting. So, when he apologized for being a bad parent to some degree when you were younger, then he's got to double down on helping protect you when you get older.

[00:48:23]Yes. Which he did not do.

[00:48:25]Yeah.

[00:48:26]And my mom didn't, either. She knew these women.

[00:48:30]Well, that's the thing, too. Like women know women better than men do. And so, really, it was incumbent upon your mother to make sure that you didn't get preyed upon or were preying upon women.

[00:48:40]Yeah.

[00:48:41]And how long did you date the bean girl, the six?

[00:48:45]Um 4 years of college. Oof.

[00:48:49]And what what ended that?

[00:48:51]Oh boy, this is going to be embarrassing. Um she turned out to be a lesbian and she ran off with my closest female friend.

[00:49:00]Oh, so she did to you what you did to Bob.

[00:49:04]Yes. Except you weren't divorced. Okay. So, I don't know what turned out to be a lesbian means. Um cuz she was not I mean, she's having sex with you, she's probably not a lesbian, but maybe she decided to cross over or experiment or something like that. Okay.

[00:49:17]So, uh she ended up running off with another woman.

[00:49:20]Yes.

[00:49:21]Uh okay.

[00:49:23]And did your parents ever meet this uh woman?

[00:49:27]They did, yes. Ah. And what did they say and what did they think?

[00:49:30]They thought she was great. Ah, good.

[00:49:32]Okay. Excellent.

[00:49:33]>> Yeah, they did not see the the red flags. They give me any advice or warnings.

[00:49:41]And did you tell them about her meanness?

[00:49:43]Yes, they saw it. Oh, they saw it. So, what did they see? Tell me specifically.

[00:49:47]Uh so, just like childish kind of like um like making fun of me for various things like >> Like what? Give me an example. I don't know what this means to be abstract.

[00:49:58]>> I'm sorry. I I know it's really abstract. I'm just I haven't thought about this in like, you know, 13 years.

[00:50:03]So, uh like, for example, like I I I didn't like professional sports. And she was big on professional sports. And so, she took me to a hockey game. I didn't know anything about hockey.

[00:50:15]>> going to say, if she took you to women's baseball, that might be a whole different thing.

[00:50:20]That might have been a hint. Anyway, go on.

[00:50:23]Uh but, she would like make fun of me for not knowing the rules of the game. And uh it was hockey, it was football, basically any sport. I was a baseball player in high school. And so, I knew the rules of baseball, but I didn't like professional sports. I didn't like watching it. I didn't know who the players were or anything. So, she'd make fun of me for saying that.

[00:50:43]>> that are in possession of unimportant trivia and they make fun of you for not knowing that stuff. It's like, yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't know. I've been to see hockey games. We used to take our customers in the business world to go see hockey games. I mean, I vaguely knew what was going on, but I mean, I didn't really care. Uh I just, you know, whatever. It's just something to do for business. Baseball I get again cuz I played. I've never played football. I vaguely get it, but not usually. And I just can't watch a game where there's like 5 minutes of play in 2 and 1/2 hours. That's just [ __ ] Uh so, anyway, okay. So, she she cares about sports, you don't. I mean, that would be like me making fun of my wife cuz she doesn't understand TCP/IP protocols.

[00:51:20]It's like this is just stupid, right?

[00:51:22]Anyway, go on.

[00:51:23]>> It's stupid kind of things like that. Or if we're cooking meals, she'd be like, "You're boiling the water wrong." Like, just some trivial like complete nonsense kind of things.

[00:51:34]And they had no problem with that?

[00:51:36]No problem.

[00:51:38]So, what's wrong with them?

[00:51:40]Oh, man. I don't I'd want to say that it's just they're boomers and that's No, that's that's not what they're boomers.

[00:51:44]You weren't that way.

[00:51:46]Right.

[00:51:47]I mean, can you imagine if you had a kid and some girl was making fun of him for like like in a mean way, like not saying anything?

[00:51:54]Yeah.

[00:51:56]And And it got They've always been really bad about my emotional state. If I was depressed or sad, they just didn't seem to care or ask questions why.

[00:52:06]Sorry, I thought this was after your father apologized and promised to be better.

[00:52:10]Uh um I mean, let me go back. This is kind of like in that time period between the divorce. Oh, in the in the late '80s. So, yeah. From like 10 to 18, let's say. Well, um You know why they can't ask you why you're down when you're a teen, right?

[00:52:23]Of course, cuz of the divorce.

[00:52:25]>> Because they're the cause. Right. Right.

[00:52:27]They caused it and they continued to cause the suffering by fighting and then making me and my sister as kind of pawns in there.

[00:52:36]You You've mentioned this before and people get divorced, it's like they use the children as kind of the the pawns to hurt the other person. Oh, it's pretty selfish. Yeah.

[00:52:46]Yeah, both my dad and my mom were like that.

[00:52:48]>> your dad, which of course is absolutely forbidden in divorces. Yeah.

[00:52:53]Yeah, so that it caused a lot of pain and they just didn't bring it up. They didn't you know, they didn't try to understand.

[00:53:00]And obviously, they can't. Sorry, they what?

[00:53:03]They can't ask, like you said, because >> Well, I mean, they could. They But then they'd have to be something other than hedonists.

[00:53:10]Right.

[00:53:10]>> They'd have to have some moral principles. So, tell me about your parents' moral principles. What are their moral principles?

[00:53:16]That is a very good question. Um I I Nothing comes to mind.

[00:53:21]And it's something you you've asked other callers before like, "What are What's something a good piece of advice or or a a a moral that your parents passed down to you?"

[00:53:33]And honestly, I I can't think of anything. Well, that you still find a value to this day, right?

[00:53:39]Study for your math test doesn't apply that much as an adult, but you know, some Okay. So, your your parents don't What were they? Were they Christians?

[00:53:46]Yes. Both Catholic. What?

[00:53:49]Okay. Sorry.

[00:53:51]I'm tripping over my own jawbone here, clavicular style.

[00:53:54]They're Catholic.

[00:53:56]Yes. And they had no morals to give you.

[00:53:59]Correct.

[00:54:00]>> What the I mean, other than like I mean, other than what we would learn at church and Catholic school.

[00:54:06]No, no. Like What?

[00:54:09]Yeah.

[00:54:10]They had no morals I can't honestly come on.

[00:54:12]Are you Yeah, you serious? They had no morals to give you?

[00:54:15]I don't remember anything of value that they gave me.

[00:54:20]Okay.

[00:54:21]Okay.

[00:54:23]>> [sighs] >> Okay.

[00:54:25]Okay. So, you other than your father in your late teens, early 20s saying, "Sorry for being bad dad." Uh what honest conversations have you had with your parents about your childhood in the last 20 years?

[00:54:40]I tried to have a conversation with my mom about the emotional availability.

[00:54:45]Uh and then she got emotional and started crying and uh kind of ran off from the conversation.

[00:54:51]Yeah, she made it selfishly about her and then ignored your feelings. So, you say, "Mom, I feel you're not emotionally available." And then she gets narcissistically self-absorbed and then ignores your emotions.

[00:55:02]Correct. It was very narcissistic of like, "Why are you doing this to me? Why are you bringing this up?" Oh, yeah.

[00:55:06]Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful.

[00:55:08]Beautiful. That's That's wonderful. That is just That's classic.

[00:55:12]That's classic. Let's make it all Mom, I don't think that you pay enough attention for me. Well, here, I'm going to make this all about me and now you have to comfort me.

[00:55:20]Yeah. So, okay.

[00:55:22]How many uh girlfriends have you had?

[00:55:25]Uh probably about 10.

[00:55:27]And how many sexual partners?

[00:55:29]Uh let's say other than that one woman, so about nine.

[00:55:34]Okay. So, 10 girlfriends, nine sexual partners.

[00:55:37]And what's the average length of your relationships?

[00:55:41]Uh it's 3 to 6 months. Okay. And usually, what ends them?

[00:55:46]Um the women. Uh they would they would either ghost me or just tell me this relationship isn't for them.

[00:55:56]And why do you think they do that?

[00:55:58]I don't know.

[00:55:59]Uh maybe Well, okay. No, I do know.

[00:56:01]Yeah. It's If it's based on lust and nothing else, then at some point I think that could get really boring and then people decide, "Okay, it's I'm going to move on to something more exciting."

[00:56:14]Okay. So, can you provide for a family?

[00:56:16]You said that you have a fairly successful career, but it's not very remunerative.

[00:56:21]Correct.

[00:56:22]How tall are you?

[00:56:24]Yes.

[00:56:25]6 ft tall. You're 6 ft tall. Okay. And what's your weight?

[00:56:30]Uh right now, 270.

[00:56:32]270, but when you were in your prime, working out and big-armed and all that.

[00:56:37]>> 240.

[00:56:38]Okay. And were you cuz that's kind of overweight, right?

[00:56:44]Oh, yeah. Yeah, for sure. Okay. But you were like beefy overweight with muscles.

[00:56:48]Correct.

[00:56:49]>> Okay.

[00:56:50]And >> like um if you've ever seen that Family Guy joke of in-shape, out-of-shape guy from the 1950s. I have not, but I believe you. Okay. Yeah, like Robert Mitchum back in the 1950s. Like And God help you, did you keep your hair?

[00:57:06]No. Okay. Like I'm I'm balding, but not uh not totally bald. Okay. And when did you start losing your hair in sort of a noticeable, more than just a widow's peak kind of way?

[00:57:16]Uh probably like 30. Okay. Got it. All right. And how would you rate your face?

[00:57:22]Or how do you think women rate your face?

[00:57:24]Uh I would say six out of 10.

[00:57:27]Okay.

[00:57:28]So, I mean, you're quite a bit taller than the average man.

[00:57:32]I think the average is 5'8, 5'9 or something like that. So, you're tall.

[00:57:36]>> Yeah. Uh you kept your hair for a good chunk of your life. You're big and beefy. So, do you think that the women are with you for lust?

[00:57:44]I think so.

[00:57:45]Okay.

[00:57:47]All right. So, what happens after lust wears off? Which is, you know, you said 3 to 6 months.

[00:57:54]That's typical for lust, right? So, what happens after lust wears off?

[00:58:00]I think that's when they they decide to move on. No, no. I get that. But But what What happens emotionally?

[00:58:07]Um for me or for them?

[00:58:08]>> For them.

[00:58:09]Uh they're they're not bonding emotionally. Um I'm not sure if I I understand the question.

[00:58:15]Well, have you been in a relationship which was based on lust where you get tired of the lust aspect and just look at the person as a person?

[00:58:26]Yes. Okay. And which was that?

[00:58:29]Um I'd say the first one I was talk talking about, Winter.

[00:58:33]Okay. The 40-year-old uh bipolar.

[00:58:35]>> Or the Uh no, this is the 32-year-old, the one that I work with.

[00:58:39]Oh, the one whose husband charged came charging back in.

[00:58:42]Yes, cuz I decided not to make it about lust and and tell her, you know, "Hey, if you're So, no. But But you hadn't you hadn't expended a bunch of lust in that relationship. Is that right? Correct.

[00:58:54]Yes. Okay. So, I'm talking about a relationship where you get together primarily based on physical attraction.

[00:58:59]Right. And what happens over time or when you wake up from that lust?

[00:59:05]And you judge the person not as a sexual object, but as an individual.

[00:59:09]Um well, then there's there's only one that really comes to mind with that. Cuz I think what ends up happening with me is I stay in that lust mode, but then they they do not. Right. Yeah, it generally happens sooner with women. Okay. So, if a woman wakes up and doesn't want you for sex and just judges you as an a person as a a moral agent or as an individual, what do they see?

[00:59:37]They see a guy that's not really interested in somebody who has deep morals, who's makes his decisions based on lust, um who who kind of is stuck in a bit of a childish mode.

[00:59:51]Mhm.

[00:59:52]Yeah, I I think that they would say Now, have you talked to women over the course of your life for the last 17 or 18 years you've been into philosophy, at least the way that I work on it?

[01:00:05]Have you told them about your interest in philosophy and morals and virtues and things like that?

[01:00:11]I have, and for the most part they just kind of gloss over.

[01:00:15]Right.

[01:00:16]So, you say that you're very interested in truth, virtue, morals, reason, honesty, integrity, and all that kind of stuff.

[01:00:25]And why do you think they don't take you seriously?

[01:00:29]Cuz I'm not actually living it. Yeah, cuz you're not Yeah, not making any real decisions. It's like if I if I weigh, you know, 400 lb and I say I'm really into dieting, what are people going to say? Yeah, yeah, okay, whatever. Just sit there and look pretty.

[01:00:43]Right. Okay.

[01:00:44]So, women, I mean, you're obviously an intelligent fellow, good conversationalist, and you have a good degree of self-knowledge and all of that. So, why do you think you can't keep a woman?

[01:00:56]I assume it's because you're choosing women based on lust.

[01:00:59]And they're choosing you based on lust, but they wake up sooner as women tend to in these sorts of situations.

[01:01:06]I think that's a fair assessment, yep.

[01:01:08]Okay.

[01:01:09]All right. So, um how can I best help you in the time that we have left?

[01:01:13]You've already been such a help. Um this is this is amazing stuff like I can't believe I I I didn't see some of this stuff and that I was kind of got >> years to have a call in, but all right.

[01:01:26]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, um Yeah, and >> balls didn't want to want to call in.

[01:01:31]Yeah, you know, you're you're right.

[01:01:33]There there is a a what do you call it? A denial of you know that this is wrong, but you're going to continue doing it and you're going to this is why I didn't tell Bob about things or or other people the whole story is cuz I'm afraid of what they're going to say.

[01:01:48]I know they're going to say this is not a good thing. Well, no, but that's fine.

[01:01:51]We all like to hear that it's not a good thing. You know, if if you were about to eat a sandwich that had a spider in it and I told you don't eat, it's going to You'd be happy. I told you not to do the wrong thing, right? So, it's not that.

[01:02:03]It's not that.

[01:02:05]But I'm still not like, yeah, I would love to have friends who could just tell me this and see Nope. these kind of things.

[01:02:11]>> you wouldn't because if you did, you'd have them. So, >> [snorts] >> so we have to look at the secondary gains.

[01:02:16]>> Okay. And we have What are the secondary gains? This is like the hidden benefits, right?

[01:02:20]Yeah. Why do you not apply standards of virtue to dating women?

[01:02:26]What's the gain What's the benefit to you? I mean, obviously there's the sex and all of that, but the reason you're depressed is that I mean, that's all running out, right?

[01:02:33]Yes.

[01:02:34]Because as you get older, the women get crazier.

[01:02:37]Yes. And as you get older, you start to run out of even the belief that you can have a family, right? Cuz I mean, you're you're real close to not being able to have a family at all.

[01:02:46]Yes. Right?

[01:02:48]Yeah. So, you need to start dating a woman in her early 30s.

[01:02:53]And early 30s women will date older men based on what?

[01:03:00]Why wouldn't an early 30s woman not date another early 30s guy? Why would she date an older guy?

[01:03:04]Who's bald and has Money, status.

[01:03:08]Well, money {slash} maturity {slash} both, right?

[01:03:11]Yeah. Now, do you have a lot of money?

[01:03:13]No. Okay. Do you have a lot of maturity?

[01:03:16]Not really. Do you have a lot of status?

[01:03:19]That, yes.

[01:03:20]You have status. Okay, tell me your status.

[01:03:23]Um Not disagreeing. I just, you know, want to understand.

[01:03:26]>> like in my career, people I have some notoriety in my career. Um I have some status at church. I I do some leadership things.

[01:03:33]>> A A status A status that a woman would recognize and her friends would recognize and that society as a whole would recognize. Like if you're really good at If you're really good at at graffiti, that's not high status. You may be high status in the graffiti community, to take a silly example, but you wouldn't be high status for a woman.

[01:03:51]Yeah, you're right. I misunderstood that. Um then then no, the answer is no, I don't have status.

[01:03:56]Okay. So, no maturity, your looks are fading, um and you're 270, right? That's brutal.

[01:04:04]Yes. Yeah.

[01:04:04]>> Like you said you're binge eating because of stress, boredom.

[01:04:09]Correct.

[01:04:09]>> Yeah. Okay. So, you are not going to be able to pull a woman 10 years younger.

[01:04:17]Yeah. Cuz I mean, would you say you're fat?

[01:04:19]Yes. What's your waist measurement?

[01:04:22]Uh 42 in. Really?

[01:04:26]Yeah. Huh.

[01:04:27]Where's the weight on your body? Are you a belly guy or back fat or >> Yeah, so so like the my waist is yeah, it's more of like a potbelly.

[01:04:36]Oh, so this is underneath your potbelly, right? Correct. Yeah, yeah. Okay, got it. You got to hang up.

[01:04:41]>> don't Yeah, I don't know the my gut measurement. I'm sorry. Okay. And you know your body fat percentage?

[01:04:47]I do not.

[01:04:49]Okay, what's your BMI?

[01:04:51]I don't know that either. Well, let's look it up, shall we?

[01:04:54]Okay. All right. Uh BMI calculator.

[01:05:00]I mean, it's not perfect, right? But it's a No, but it It's It's something, right?

[01:05:05]Yeah.

[01:05:06]All right. BMI calc. You can do it.

[01:05:09]You really can.

[01:05:11]Okay, so you said 6 ft tall and 270. Is that right?

[01:05:16]Yes. All right.

[01:05:18]Uh let's just do it here.

[01:05:21]I like how it goes up to 8 ft.

[01:05:24]That's pretty funny. Oh, that that would be interesting.

[01:05:27]All right.

[01:05:28]You're uh 6 ft.

[01:05:31]Oh, come on. You don't need 0 in.

[01:05:33]Uh so, your BMI is Yeah, so your BMI is 36.6 and obesity is 30 or above. Overweight is 25 to 29. Obesity is 30 or above. So, you're so deep into obese.

[01:05:49]Yes. Okay.

[01:05:50]And are you still working out?

[01:05:53]Uh no. I I I I haven't been doing that in like 4 months. Okay. And why did you stop? Because of the depression or something?

[01:05:59]Yeah, the depression. I mean, you know that's the worst thing you can do, right?

[01:06:03]I know. Okay.

[01:06:05]I should be working out while depressed.

[01:06:08]That would help you know, it would help me raise my mood and testosterone and everything else, which would be a massive improvement.

[01:06:17]Yeah. Okay, just just a way.

[01:06:19]Okay, and the depression hit when?

[01:06:24]It started when the whole thing with summer ended. So, that would be June of 2025.

[01:06:29]Okay, so like 10 months ago?

[01:06:31]Yes. Okay, got it. And did it hit right away or come slowly?

[01:06:35]It hit right away.

[01:06:37]Okay, got it.

[01:06:38]Um all right.

[01:06:40]So, why do you think it's What is it What is it trying to tell you? What is your depression trying to tell you?

[01:06:47]I think it's it's supposed to be a wake-up call to say Yeah, not what I think it's supposed to be. Like that Not what you've read or what you like What do you think it is?

[01:06:56]What do you think it's trying to tell you? Not just a generic wake-up call, but what do you think it's trying to tell you?

[01:07:02]I think it just feels God, I don't know how to articulate it.

[01:07:07]It feels like a hopelessness, a sense of hopelessness.

[01:07:11]And what I think my mind should be doing with that is panic.

[01:07:17]And then panic should turn to action.

[01:07:20]Right? To do something with this. That That I'm not doing it and I think the depression's getting worse cuz I'm not taking action to change things.

[01:07:30]Okay.

[01:07:31]So, what needs to change?

[01:07:33]I think the first thing I could do is start working out again.

[01:07:37]Okay, you don't need me to tell you that. So, what else? Correct. Um God, the the what I need from >> [snorts] >> I know the obvious. You're you're right.

[01:07:47]I know the obvious things. Um I guess what I need is is somebody to tell me like that connection of like what it is that connects all these threads to maybe that one thing, that one spark of insight that could be like, "Aha, that's it. I knew that one thing I just need to figure out." Okay, so what Let Let's assume you're calling me because my approach to philosophy has some validity in your mind.

[01:08:12]Yes. Okay.

[01:08:13]>> [snorts] >> So, what do you expect me to say based upon what you've told me? Just out of What's your inner staff? What What's your inner staff saying?

[01:08:22]Inner staff is saying, "You need to live virtuously."

[01:08:27]Yeah, yeah, yeah, but that's very generic. I mean, something more >> [laughter] >> Uh okay. So, um to be specific, that would that would translate to something like you need to uh improve your surroundings, improve your settings. No, no, but improve is too generic. Come on, specific.

[01:08:48]God, maybe seek clarity from my parents.

[01:08:52]Okay. All right. So, what does seek clarity What is What does that mean?

[01:08:55]Try to understand why they they didn't give me the advice I need.

[01:08:59]I needed.

[01:09:00]Figure out if there's a way to fix that.

[01:09:03]I mean, it's almost too late, I guess.

[01:09:04]Well, I don't know about that, but >> [sighs and gasps] >> you lie by omission with your parents because you pretend to have a relationship with them when you can't talk about anything important and they don't give you any good advice.

[01:09:16]Right. So, it's just noise and and activities and Christmas and [ __ ] right?

[01:09:20]Yep. Okay. So, you don't have a real relationship with your parents.

[01:09:25]Correct. And which you're a with.

[01:09:27]Because you've certainly heard me a million times say what with regards to parents.

[01:09:32]That you should again if you don't have a good relationship with them then what's the point of being Yeah, you don't have to stop lying. Yeah. Stop lying.

[01:09:41]Your parents have let you drift into your early 40s like a teen.

[01:09:46]Now, of course that's on you to some degree, but it's a little bit more on them.

[01:09:50]Yeah. So, why haven't your parents intervened? Why haven't your parents sat you down and said, "You know, we see you're kind of drifting or you know, what what do you think's going on with your dating?" Or like why are they content to have you wander into no man's land or no woman's land or no family land or anything like that. Have they How many have they asked you?

[01:10:10]Do you want to get married and have kids? Have they asked you that basic question? No. Jesus, the [ __ ] is this [ __ ] Yeah.

[01:10:18]Like what the No, seriously, what the [ __ ] is this?

[01:10:21]Help me understand. This is nothing.

[01:10:23]They've never even asked you, their child, their son, whether you want to get married and have kids.

[01:10:31]No.

[01:10:33]Why not do you think?

[01:10:35]Uh perhaps cuz it would confront the fact that they were shitty parents.

[01:10:41]Yeah, or or they don't care.

[01:10:45]Yeah.

[01:10:46]Cuz they don't see They didn't care about how your father didn't care about how his cheating would break up the family. Your parents didn't care about how fighting completely [ __ ] up your teenage years.

[01:10:56]They don't care to ask you about your dating. They don't care that you get insulted by your four-year turn into lesbianism girlfriend. They don't care that you may want to have kids but a dating woman who's 40 or a woman who's infertile. They don't care, right? That you're dating a woman who's separated but not divorced. They don't care that you're dating a woman or trying to date a woman who's recently divorced and is probably a mother They don't care. Yeah. They don't care.

[01:11:19]And you're fine with that.

[01:11:21]Do you notice that they don't care?

[01:11:23]I do, yeah.

[01:11:24]>> Okay, so you are someone that no one can should care about.

[01:11:31]That's your foundational core belief.

[01:11:34]I don't matter.

[01:11:35]I'm just a lollipop drawing of a person.

[01:11:40]Nobody should really care about what I want or need or how to help me achieve my goals or nobody should care. I'm irrelevant. I'm unimportant cuz you got really selfish parents.

[01:11:50]I know. I've I've felt that way since I was a little kid while I was telling you that Okay, so why don't you fight it?

[01:11:58]Why do you just roll over? I don't know.

[01:12:00]So, you do. Stop saying that to me. It's a waste of time. Of course you do. You know what I'm going to say. Come on.

[01:12:06]Right? Why do you roll over?

[01:12:09]>> want to know. I don't want to hear the answer. Well, that's by definition, right?

[01:12:13]>> that they don't care.

[01:12:15]Well, but you kind of know deep down that they don't care and you told me you've known that since you were a kid.

[01:12:19]That's true.

[01:12:22]Cuz you have no bond.

[01:12:23]Yeah. And if you have no bond, you can't criticize people.

[01:12:28]Yeah. Right?

[01:12:29]You can't criticize your parents because if you criticize your parents, what are they going to do?

[01:12:35]They're going to run away. Yeah, they're going to cut you out. Yeah. Okay.

[01:12:40]They're going to cut you out.

[01:12:42]So, if you were to say to your parents, "You know, I really feel like you guys don't really care about me."

[01:12:49]Well, we were just giving you your space. You're big enough to make your own decisions. All this [ __ ] that they would say, right? Right.

[01:12:55]So, if you push them on that and say, "You're supposed to be giving me good advice. You know that, right?"

[01:13:02]Yeah. Did you not notice that I wasn't settling down? Did you not notice that no matter none of my relationships last beyond 3 months or 6 months?

[01:13:08]Did you not care? Well, we figured you knew what you were doing. It's like, "I don't."

[01:13:13]Clearly.

[01:13:15]And you've never inquired >> Yeah, obviously.

[01:13:16]>> Yeah, so they've never inquired or anything like that. So, if you were to say to your parents, "You're still bad parents and you have been for 40 years."

[01:13:25]What would they do?

[01:13:26]See, remember, they're hedonists cuz they're boomers, right? They're hedonists.

[01:13:30]>> Yeah.

[01:13:30]So, if you make them uncomfortable, if you make a hedonist uncomfortable, what does he do? What does she do? They get angry. And then? And and then they disappear or they they cut you out.

[01:13:41]>> Yeah.

[01:13:42]Yeah, so to hedonists, all criticisms are like sharks in the water. And what do people do when there's a shark in the water?

[01:13:49]They leave the water.

[01:13:50]>> the [ __ ] out. Yeah. So, hedonists can't handle This is why I asked what are your parents' moral standards. Cuz a moral standard means you suffer this discomfort for the sake of the good.

[01:14:01]Right. Right?

[01:14:03]What do your parents suffer for the sake of the good?

[01:14:08]Nothing. No, nothing.

[01:14:09]>> Yeah, they're hedonists, which means he You can't bond with a hedonist because a hedonist will throw you overboard if you make them uncomfortable cuz all they care about is pleasure and pain.

[01:14:21]They've no moral principles.

[01:14:24]A hedonist is a narcissist by definition because the only thing that matters to them is their own pleasure and pain.

[01:14:31]So, you were raised, in my view, I'm not using this term technically. I'm just an amateur on the internet, of course, right? I'm not a psychologist. You were raised by narcissistic hedonists.

[01:14:40]And so, what is your template for masculinity? Hedonism. Right. So, it's how pretty the girl is, whether she's sexually available, whether you get that special tingle, that what do you call it? Electricity, the lust factor, whatever, right? You're not guiding your life by any principles. Look, you are in the business world. Like you couldn't be successful if you didn't. Like you don't cheat customers and you know, steal from from people or whatever, right? So, I get all of that. But in your dating life, isn't it just he hedonism?

[01:15:07]It is. It is. And and that's the template you've given. That's the template that's pushed on you by society, art, the media, all this sort of stuff, movies, everything, right?

[01:15:17]Just pushing hedonism all the time, right?

[01:15:20]Yeah. So, you have and it's common in late 30s, early 40s, you reach the end of hedonism.

[01:15:28]Yeah.

[01:15:30]I think that's what the the panic is about. Yes.

[01:15:33]Yeah, cuz you're almost out of time.

[01:15:36]Yeah.

[01:15:37]Yeah, it it hurts to think about, but yeah, so how do I get out of being hedonistic this way?

[01:15:47]>> [laughter] >> I Sorry, I'm laughing because you already know the answer.

[01:15:51]Well, first of all, you do a an evaluation of all the people in your life to find out if they have any moral principles at all.

[01:16:01]Sure. And if they care about you at all.

[01:16:04]I mean, that's what I had to do. I was in my 30s and it wasn't like I was any kind of smarter or better person. I just happened to have terrible insomnia because I was completely sleepwalking through my whole [ __ ] life.

[01:16:16]So, what you have to do, at least I think, what you have to do, at least what I what I did, is do people have any moral principles around me and do they care about me at all?

[01:16:28]So, in my 20s, I was in a relationship.

[01:16:31]It was okay. It was fine. It wasn't terrible or anything like that, but it just wasn't able to really take off.

[01:16:38]Right. And nobody talked to me about it.

[01:16:42]And I proposed. I bought a ring. I proposed. My brother went me to get the ring, never said anything about it. And it would have been the wrong thing for me to do and the wrong thing for the woman, too. We just, you know, we had enough compatibility to get along, but not enough compatibility to really fall in love.

[01:16:58]And >> [sighs] >> nobody interfered with this. It was actually, you know, I I proposed and all this that and the other. And nobody said anything. Not my mother, not my father, not my brother, not my friends, not nobody asked me if it was the right thing to do. Nobody. Now, it was a friend of mine's girlfriend who just happened to mention, "Hey, you think a guy who's engaged would be a little bit happier?"

[01:17:21]Yeah. And that was it. That was all That was the only And that comment saved my life. Now, like literally saved my life because it would have been wretched. And again, not because it was a terrible relationship or she was not a terrible person or anything like that, but just it was not um I I I tend to go all in in things and this was not something I could go all in. So, my point is that all these people who'd known me for a quarter century or more didn't give a [ __ ] Didn't ask me questions. Are you happy?

[01:17:50]Is this the right thing? I know you came from a bad background. Are you sure this is the right way to make the decision?

[01:17:54]Blah blah blah. Nobody.

[01:17:56]It was just a friend of mine's girlfriend who happened to mention a comment in passing and I was like, "Holy [ __ ] I barely know this woman. She saved my life. She gave a passing crap about me and the people who claim to care about me didn't say a thing."

[01:18:10]Yeah. Right?

[01:18:11]And I don't know if it was sabotage. I don't know if they were just hedonists.

[01:18:15]It doesn't really matter. It's none of those people are in my life anymore.

[01:18:19]You know, it would be like It's like you're choking to death at a family table with 20 doctors, all of whom are experts in the Heimlich maneuver, and they're just watching you [ __ ] choke out. Pass the bread. Oh, this is lovely, lovely red wine. And you're [ __ ] choking out. Your face is turning purple. And then some stranger comes along, gives you one swift arm pull to the innards and you cough out the piece of chicken or whatever that is.

[01:18:47]And you look around like, "Holy [ __ ] No [ __ ] doctors.

[01:18:50]And some stranger's got to save my life.

[01:18:53][ __ ] this."

[01:18:55]I mean, it wasn't a two-hour conversation like I usually have. This was just a comment in passing that saved my life.

[01:19:01]From a total stranger.

[01:19:03]I I I think what you've told me today is is that level for me. This is how I'm feeling right now is the just the the the the the advice to evaluate for moral principles and if they actually care about me.

[01:19:18]>> Yeah. What is the evidence that the people in your life Like we're social animals. Sorry to be annoying. So, this is the we're social animals and what that means is that we don't make all the decisions on our own.

[01:19:29]Right. We don't make the decisions on our own. And what that means is that everybody is responsible and for us and we're responsible for everyone in our life.

[01:19:38]Which is why if I see people in my life who I think could do better or there's something I could help, I try to help them. And I expect the same in return. If there's something I'm not seeing, I expect people to tell me.

[01:19:49]Right?

[01:19:50]Yes. And so, everyone in your life is involved in things that go wrong.

[01:19:57]Your parents in particular. And you you have a sibling, is that right? Yes. A sister?

[01:20:02]Yeah, a younger sister. Fantastic. How much younger?

[01:20:05]Uh 2 years. Fantastic. How has she helped you?

[01:20:09]She has not.

[01:20:10]>> Okay, there you go.

[01:20:11]Now, your parents are more responsible than your sister, but your sister being 39 is responsible. If she claims to care about you, why hasn't she asked you or tried to help you?

[01:20:22]She's got her own massive things, too.

[01:20:24]Well, have you tried to help her?

[01:20:27]I have. Okay.

[01:20:28]So, she's still more responsible, right?

[01:20:31]Yeah.

[01:20:32]You just want to know if the people who claim to care about you are lying through their ass or not.

[01:20:39]Yeah.

[01:20:41]Yeah.

[01:20:41]Oh.

[01:20:42]And also, are you lying when you say you care about them?

[01:20:48]Yeah.

[01:20:49]Is it real?

[01:20:51]Or are you all lying when you say you love each other?

[01:20:55]You should know that, right?

[01:20:57]Yeah, I think my family has a lot of that.

[01:21:01]Just say we love each other when it doesn't matter. It doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything. If you're in your early 40s and nobody's even asked you what the hell you want out of life or how they can help facilitate it, it's all [ __ ] Yeah.

[01:21:15]Now, if you meet a high-quality woman, right, virtuous and honesty has integrity and so on, and she hears what you've told me today, right, about your family, about your life, about the people in your life, and she hears, "Oh yeah, no, I got together with my best friend's ex-wife and didn't even tell him about it. Oh yeah, I also dated this bipolar girl and nobody in my life really warned me about it. Oh yeah, and this Oh yeah, and this Oh yeah, and this."

[01:21:45]What's she going to say, man?

[01:21:47]She's going to want to run because she's going to see that this man's not living virtuously.

[01:21:52]Well, and he's surrounded by people who don't care.

[01:21:56]Yeah.

[01:21:57]Right?

[01:21:59]Yeah, and And he doesn't even seem to know it. He's fine with it.

[01:22:02]>> Yeah, exactly. That's probably the worst thing is he doesn't notice and doesn't care or doesn't care. Right.

[01:22:10]Right.

[01:22:11]So, that's the price that you pay for having selfish, uncaring people in your life is that you cannot have people who care about you in your life.

[01:22:23]Yeah.

[01:22:24]Because someone's going to look at you and this is why you're depressed. So, anybody with any wisdom is going to look at you and say, "Wow, if he's 41 and he's not getting what he wants out of life, then either he's got good people in his life, but he doesn't care about them and doesn't listen to them, or he's got bad people in his life who don't care about him. Either way, like you are a red flag and this is why you're depressed is you've got to not be a red flag if you're going to have people in your life who are quality, who are good, if that makes sense.

[01:22:58]It makes perfect sense.

[01:22:59]And I think that's what's um that's what is occurring.

[01:23:03]I I I'm I'm I'm completely in agreement. I think Sorry, I'm getting a little choked up.

[01:23:11]Yeah, tell me what you think.

[01:23:13]This is incredible.

[01:23:16]I I I'm so thankful for this. This is Thank you so much.

[01:23:21]Well, of course you're welcome, but tell me tell me what you're feeling.

[01:23:25]I'm feeling sad because I realized that the people in my life don't care about me.

[01:23:31]My friends, my family.

[01:23:33]And and I'm more upset with myself for not not caring that they don't care. Mhm.

[01:23:40]I should I should I need to take responsibility for that as well and and seek out the friendships that are based in that morality that people can tell me the truth and that I can tell the truth to them, which means I also need to practice what I preach in that sense and be be honest with people and tell them the truth. Mhm.

[01:24:05]Yeah.

[01:24:06]>> [snorts] >> Well, I mean, it's it's the old thing that we all hope, as did I, right? And I say this again with all humility, but we all hope that we can kind of get away without being really philosophical.

[01:24:16]Wouldn't that be nice?

[01:24:17]>> Right. Like we we can it wouldn't it be nice if philosophy was just kind of a thing that you could just kind of half do and it was kind of interesting and entertaining and it's cool that Stef has these interesting call-in shows and and all of that, but we don't, you know, we don't actually have to really do it, do we?

[01:24:31]Yeah. You know, like all the people who um they uh they watch these shows, you know, The Biggest Loser and so on, it's like, you know, you can't actually do have to lose the weight, right? Like you do actually have to diet and all of that, but like, "No, no, no, cuz it's interesting to watch fat people on treadmills and you know, like I don't really want to actually have to do it cuz you know I mean that's a that's a lot of work."

[01:24:50]>> Right. It's it's like when when people see some interesting hobby and they're like, "I always wanted to do that." And they don't even take any steps to do it.

[01:24:59]Right. Right. Yeah, like if you do this thing where I remember Prince talking about this with regards to the guitar. He says, you know, like he was talking about Guitar Hero and like it's not really guitar, right? It's like, you know, it's tough if you have a uh um if you want to learn guitar, you know, this tough because it's a frustrating instrument and it's it's difficult and and uh all of that, but you know, you're not really learning anything if you're just playing some video game. You're not actually learning any real guitar, right? It's just kind of you know, like like people think they're achieving something cuz they play video games and of course, you know, everybody kind of knows that they're not, but it just is kind of tempting to to feel that you are, if that makes sense.

[01:25:41]Yeah.

[01:25:42]Like playing a race car racing game and being like, "I'm a Formula 1 driver."

[01:25:45]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it's fun and there's nothing wrong with it. It's kind of a goofy engaging or entertaining thing, but it's not real, right?

[01:25:53]Right.

[01:25:55]I I also want to say that I'm feeling I I'm feeling that that you care more about me than some of the people in my life and you just met me in this call.

[01:26:07]Right.

[01:26:08]Right. Yeah, and I mean that the questions that I'm asking, of course these are questions that, you know, I'm not saying that everyone like I have a peculiar level of insight, like I kind of always have. Uh I I just my brain makes these connections. I mean, I just kind of go along for the ride and try and talk about it as honestly as I can, but uh it's not like um I have some like completely remarkable skill that nobody else can um uh can care about anyone, right? I don't think that's true at all.

[01:26:38]Yeah.

[01:26:39]But well, I mean, I'm I'm so grateful for this, Stef. Thank you so much.

[01:26:44]You are very welcome. You're very welcome.

[01:26:46]Uh is there anything else that I could help you with? I know I've given you kind of a lot to chew on, to put it mildly, but I think you've given me plenty. Um and I really just appreciate everything.

[01:26:56]Uh and I just wish I had listened to your call-in shows a lot sooner.

[01:27:01]Yeah, and of course uh you know, people should call in before it gets to be sort of emergency status kind of thing.

[01:27:08]Yes. For sure. For sure. Anybody who's listening to this definitely don't wait till the last minute.

[01:27:15]Yes, yeah. I mean, you can certainly get what you want, for sure, but it's definitely uh you are you are What is it that line from Finding Nemo?

[01:27:22]I mean, you don't have kids, so you don't have kids movies like branded into your brain, but it's kind of like uh you got serious thrill issues, dude.

[01:27:30]>> [laughter] >> Uh because it's like, yeah, wait till you're 41. That's uh that's very exciting.

[01:27:36]Yeah, exactly, you know.

[01:27:38]But yeah, you can certainly you can certainly get what you want, but yeah, you're going to have to move uh pretty quick and you're going to have to clean up your relationships pretty quick and figure out who cares about you cuz you can't get more love in your life than your least satisfying relationship. And You know, like it's the a chain is only as strong as its weakest links, you know, that kind of stuff. I mean, it's kind of true.

[01:27:56]So, Yeah. you got to say that you're worthy of being loved and then you can get love.

[01:28:02]But if you have people in your life who don't particularly care about you, uh then uh it's going to be uh it's going to be pretty tough to get people in your life who really will uh care about you because you just don't have that as a requirement or need, if that makes sense.

[01:28:18]It does.

[01:28:19]Well, Stef, how was how was this call for you? Great. I thought you did a great job and I really admire your your sort of openness to obviously some pretty pretty challenging discussions, but yeah, I think you did a great job.

[01:28:30]Thank you so much.

[01:28:31]>> And I'm sorry that you didn't get, of course, uh a reasonable levels of of uh you know, people don't have to be Carl Jung uh in terms of skill, but they certainly do have to just basically ask you what you want in life and and see if there's a way that they can figure out how to provide that for you. That seems kind of basic to me.

[01:28:48]It does.

[01:28:49]Seems like it should just go along with the territory, too, of being you want to be in in a family or um in a chosen relationship with somebody, that should go along with it. Right, right.

[01:29:00]Okay. All right. Well, listen, will you keep me posted about how things are going?

[01:29:04]I will. Thank you so much again.

[01:29:05]Appreciate this, Stef.

[01:29:06]>> brother, and I hope you'll stay in touch and um sorry about the lack of instruction, but I'm sure you can get what you want.

[01:29:12]Thank you so much.

[01:29:13]>> Thanks, brother. Take care.

[01:29:14]Bye. Bye.