"I Follow Jesus But I'm Not Christian" Progressive Christian Confronted feat. Jovan Bradley

追加: 2026-05-12

[00:00:00]Hi everyone, thanks for watching. Most of the content on my channel is supported by generous patrons but made available for free to the entire world.

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[00:00:15]This clip, however, is from one of the many programs that I do on YouTube on the line. And if you liked it, feel free to visit like, subscribe, and watch the line network live. Thank you. So, Caitlyn's calling from California.

[00:00:29]Pronouns are she, her. Caitlyn's a theist that wants to talk to us about uh the choice of belief, the choice of faith, and that belief is a choice. Hey, Caitlyn, how are you?

[00:00:39]>> Good.

[00:00:41]Uh, so I've I've been watching the channel for a while now, follow on Facebook and YouTube, and uh, yeah. Uh, first off, I just wanted to mention that I am transgender. So, um, yeah, that's, uh, that's something. But more so on the topic of the choice of belief and the choice of faith, I heard you guys talking earlier about how, you know, faith isn't really a good reason uh, for you to believe. Um, and I just I wanted to um I wanted to take a step back from that and say that that like I personally choose to believe. I personally choose to have faith. Uh, and I follow the teachings of Christ, but I don't refer to myself as a Christian, right? I'm I'm more progressive, more liberal than a lot of people that may call. Um, so yeah, just um just uh it's uh yeah, it's it's really just your personal choice, right? You I'm I'm not saying you have to, but you can you can choose whether or not to believe. Like that's the >> oh >> like that's the whole >> I mean within philosophy this is the debate about doxastic volunteerism about whether or not you have any simple choice over what your beliefs are. My view is that if you believe something that means you are convinced that it is likely to be true and that you are convinced for good reasons and bad reasons but never a simple choice. So you can't just like choose to believe gravity doesn't work. You can't just like choose to believe that Jesus is real and exist. You have become convinced for some reason.

[00:02:54]>> Yeah. So, like um like I was saying, I'm more progressive and liberal than um other people that I've heard call >> I I don't know what that has to do with the subject >> that Yeah, it it it doesn't. What I'm what I'm getting at is the the choice of belief, right? It it I choose like for me it's a choice to follow the teachings of Jesus.

[00:03:28]>> Ah but that's not a choice of belief.

[00:03:31]>> You you choose what you do on behalf of your beliefs. And so someone who genuinely believes that Jesus is divine can then choose to follow along with whatever they believe Jesus wants. But also someone who doesn't believe Jesus is divine but believes there's value in acting as if that's the case can choose to take those same actions.

[00:03:54]That's different from what you're convinced of.

[00:03:56]>> I just don't like personally. I guess maybe it's just me, but I don't see the the point like Jesus's teachings aren't anything that is specific to Jesus. So like believing in the the whole of Christianity, the whole of the mythos simply because you like the stuff Jesus says seems I don't want to say a little backwards, but at least a little backwards, right? Like you don't have to believe in Jesus to believe any of this other stuff.

[00:04:25]>> Oh, you're you're totally right. you don't um yeah, you can I think what I'm trying to get at is like a different I'm not so let me let me clearly state I'm not advocating that Jesus is divine, right? I'm not saying that at all.

[00:04:51]what I'm saying for me it's just following the path that he instructed for me it's about you know that there are some teachings that are certain to Jesus especially in when he said >> what what teachings are but what teachings are specific to only Jesus. So like they like you can't find these principles anywhere else.

[00:05:29]>> So um again I might be mistaken so um if I am then that's I will freely admit it. But the one of the one of the teachings that is just taught in Christianity is how the the greatest commandment is to love your neighbor. Like the whole summation of the >> that's that's Buddhism has that >> back in the day.

[00:06:05]>> But like but again we're not back in the day, right? So, it's not like this exists as a as a antithesis to some other massive push. We all sort of just believe like be nice to the people around you.

[00:06:19]>> So, let's say I made a list of 10 things that the Bible claims Jesus said.

[00:06:26]Do you agree with all 10 of them or some portion of them or what?

[00:06:33]>> Uh, if you I mean, so for me, it's about context.

[00:06:42]It's about um >> Have you read the Bible?

[00:06:48]>> Yeah, I have.

[00:06:50]>> So, you're familiar with what Jesus said? So, like if we went through the Sermon on the Mount, what portion of the Sermon on the Mount do you think you agree with?

[00:07:01]I I agree with the goal of it. I think >> So you think divorce is only permiss So you think divorce is only permissible for sexual immorality, right?

[00:07:19]um based on the context back in the day and like here here's here's why I'm I'm bringing a context into it is because you have to understand the setting and the context.

[00:07:36]>> No, I don't >> back in the day.

[00:07:38]>> No, I don't.

[00:07:41]So, first of all, I do understand the setting in the context, but I also know what the book says and what it claims Jesus said and and specifically Jesus prohibits divorce for anything other than sexual immorality. He also praises it as a man divorcing his wife. He doesn't talk about divorce in any broader sense. It doesn't give any permission for the wife to divorce her husband and it doesn't give definitely doesn't give permission for husbands to divorce their husbands or wives to divorce their wives. And so if it says I here Matthew 5:32, it's right the right of the beginning almost to the sermon on the mount. But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife except on the grounds of sexual immorality makes her commit adultery. And whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. Do you agree with that?

[00:08:33]Um, I think for this is just me and my view on it.

[00:08:46]For them in that era era, >> do you think that passage only applies to people in certain eras? And why would it be valid in one or sound in one era and not in another?

[00:09:02]Because I personally I believe that some of the stuff that was written, it was written to protect the people in those eras.

[00:09:14]>> Okay. You don't know what you're talking about and you've never spent any time thinking about this. That's where we're at. You are one of the many wonderful people who identify with a Christian label, although you don't call yourself a Christian, who think they're following the teachings of Jesus, because they heard turn the other cheek, love thy neighbor, this is the bulk of the law.

[00:09:33]And then you ignore everything else that you find inconvenient or didn't bother to read or haven't thought about. And you use excuses like, oh, this applied at a different time in a different place. No, it didn't.

[00:09:46]There's nothing in this. There there's nothing here about this that says, "Hey, for the first century after I'm dead, this is the law on divorce." No, this is supposedly the all knowing, all powerful divine creator who took human form and is giving instruction. It doesn't have an expiration date. And this is why when I ask you if you agree with it, you know you don't agree with it, but you're terrified to say you disagree with it because it's red letter right there in the New Testament.

[00:10:17]>> Yeah. Like I I just don't understand how we're we're we're going like, "Yeah, I need to believe everything the Bible like the Bible is where I'm going to get all my morals or I'm going to do all this when the Bible tells us to do absolutely horrible stuff to each other." And even even if we're going off of, "Yeah, but I just believe in what Jesus said." Even Jesus is like, "No, you got to follow what the prophets told you." And the prophets told us to do horrible things to each other.

[00:10:48]Yeah.

[00:10:51]>> Wouldn't it be better to like base your worldview around more just general empathy?

[00:11:00]And also the things that you're advocating for, they're not exclusive to Jesus. Um, and they don't require Jesus.

[00:11:06]All this Jovon pointed out. And it's weird because I just saw somebody in chat ask a question that both of us should should have thought of. But if the divorce thing only applies in a certain time and a place, why doesn't the love thing only apply in a certain time and certain place?

[00:11:24]That's good.

[00:11:31]Um, >> I mean, you can be a good person and love people and not give a [ __ ] about Jesus.

[00:11:42]>> Jesus doesn't give a [ __ ] about you.

[00:11:48]>> You're right.

[00:11:50]I'm not.

[00:11:50]>> If Jesus If Jesus is even real.

[00:11:53]>> Well, if he's not real, he still definitely doesn't give a [ __ ] about you. So, I guess the only other question I have on this, Caitlyn, because we were talking about whether or not belief is a choice and and you're talking about faith, is there any position that someone couldn't adopt and just say this is a faith-based position? Like, could I just say that white people are better than brown people and just say that's a faith-based position? It doesn't require justification.

[00:12:30]Um, I would say no.

[00:12:37]>> Yeah. So, what's good about faith if it's not a reliable path to truth?

[00:12:47]I so as as I as I stated before I'm for me faith is about going into the like going into the unknown and and stepping out. I don't I don't think space faith has uh for me it's just about stepping out into the unknown trusting that a higher power and that's that's what I call it right um trusting that a higher power has something planned.

[00:13:37]Well, okay. So, you're not using faith in a sense of, you know, like the the same sort of as a justification. You're just saying you're willing to take a risk and trust that there's a high power. I have no problem with trust. Why should I trust that there's a higher power? If I trust that there's a higher power and there's not, isn't that dangerous?

[00:14:00]I mean, if you put it into that context, it's both dangerous to trust and to not trust, then that's >> why I say it's completely a choice.

[00:14:13]>> No, no, no, no. Why is it Why is it dangerous to trust and not trust? If there is a higher power that has a plan, and I don't have a good reason to think that's true, why would it be dangerous to not trust that? I don't have good reason.

[00:14:34]>> You don't >> Why doesn't that higher power's plan include letting me know that it exists and has a plan that I should trust?

[00:14:46]>> Can I I can I ask a slightly different question? Why is it that that higher powers plan revolves around needless and endless suffering?

[00:14:56]That just seems kind of messed up, right? Like I don't even care if I'm a part of the plan. If me believing is a part of the plan, why does the plan involve like >> the slaughter of children or women getting raped or all this other stuff that he could easily prevent?

[00:15:16]>> I mean, I I I'm not going to argue with you there. Like, for me personally, I've been through sexual assault. I've been raped. like that's that's not like I've I've had to do my own battling internally.

[00:15:33]At the end of the day, >> if somebody if somebody looked at you though, Caitlyn, if somebody looked at you and was like, "Well, that was just all a part of God's plan." Like, that would be [ __ ] up, right? Like that would be so messed up.

[00:15:44]>> I mean, it it Yeah, it it is. And it it has happened. That's why I don't I don't know. you're uh the way this is going, I'm I'm questioning a lot more. Um >> well well take that as a take that as an opportunity, Caitlyn. Go off, do some thinking, ask some questions. Um and realize that you can be a good person and value the good things whether Jesus supposedly said them or I don't care if Hitler supposed I'm sure Hitler said something nice to somebody at some point. I mean the old quote is Hitler probably loved his mom. Um, I don't know. Maybe, maybe, you know, who knows?

[00:16:24]But you can think about these things and instead of worrying about whether or not, oh, I'm following Jesus, just follow good. And if Jesus turns out to be real and good, then you win. And if Jesus doesn't turn out to be either real or good, you still win.

[00:16:43]And you don't have to do it based on faith. You can have trust and confidence. For example, when I sit down in this chair, I have trust and confidence that this chair will hold me up because I've sat in it before because I understand the manufacturing process, because I understand a little bit about physics. And the day that it doesn't, I won't feel that my trust was misplaced.

[00:17:05]It will be, oh, things wear out, things changed. You know, my trust is never 100% because I don't think you can be absolutely certain about anything. I have a confidence that is proportioned to the evidence and it would be a mistake for me to have a confidence that isn't proportional to the evidence because that means I'm either overconfident or I'm too timid and not willing to accept or too cynical and not willing to accept reality. So skepticism, critical thinking are about finding that balance of I need good reasons to believe things and I should only be as confident as the evidence dictates.

[00:17:45]So take some time and think on that. I appreciate the call, Caitlin.

[00:17:50]>> All right. Bye.

[00:17:51]>> Take care. Toot.

[00:17:53]>> Hi. If you enjoyed that content, you can watch this program and a number of others on the line network right here on YouTube. Link below.

[00:18:07]Hey, hey, hey.