Chief Minister claims Gibraltar's Conflicts of Interest legislation goes further than Canadian model

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[00:00:00]Let's be very clear about what the Open Shore inquiry recommended and how the government have given effect to it. The Open Shore inquiry said we should have in Gibraltar a law the Canadian model or an alternative to it, which was tailor-made for Gibraltar, which would deal with the issues of conflicts of interest because the assessment of the chairman of the McGrail inquiry was that the ministerial code had not gone far enough.

[00:00:30]We instructed the person who is the preeminent specialist on this in the United Kingdom.

[00:00:37]That's not Mr. Azopardi, it's Mr. Greenberg, who is the UK Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards.

[00:00:43]He looked at the Canadian law and he said this Canadian law would not be appropriate for Gibraltar circumstances and I recommend him, Daniel Greenberg, that you should go for this model. Which follows some elements of the Canadian model but goes further in many respects.

[00:00:59]The only entity in the whole of the past 5 years that has recommended the Canadian model is Mr. McGrail's lawyers.

[00:01:11]So, Mr. Azopardi is aligning himself with Mr. McGrail and his lawyers, not with the finding of the Open Shore inquiry, which was to say the Canadian model or an alternative. For Mr. Azopardi, only the Canadian model will now do.

[00:01:26]>> Chief Minister, isn't that a bit of a red herring because it's not a question of whether it's a Canadian law or or bespoke legislation. The question is that it has to do what it sets out to do.

[00:01:36]>> This law does exactly what the Open Shore recommendations set out it should do and it does it on the basis of the advice of Daniel Greenberg, who is an objective, independent, very well-qualified individual. The consultation he carried out with all of the relevant representative organizations in Gibraltar, including the opposition and Mr. Azopardi who he met.

[00:02:03]And the result of the command paper process, which the government put out for consultation, where some entities like the Law Society in Gibraltar, for example, gave feedback saying that they need to have different types of independence which needs to be protected also. So, this law does exactly what it says on the tin, exactly what is recommended by the Open Shore inquiry.

[00:02:25]And the problem that Mr. Azopardi has, and let's understand this, Christine, so that your viewers don't have the wool pulled over their eyes by the leader of the opposition, is that he's going to lose a tool with which to beat the GSLP Liberal government when we do this. And that's why he's so aggressively coming out against it. I I saw his interview last night. He was remarkably upset. I don't know why the government is doing what Mr. Openshaw has recommended and what we are independently advised is the best way to do it.

[00:02:55]>> Chief Minister, does the legislation, would the legislation prevent the things highlighted by Sir Peter Openshaw's report from happening?

[00:03:05]>> Yes, it would. And what it would do is what it would ensure that all future ins- instances of conflicts of interest are highlighted in a much more appropriate way than perhaps our law has provided for in the future. For example, let me give you this example which Mr. Azopardi obviously is not going to give you.

[00:03:28]Mr. Azopardi is the senior partner or a senior partner of a law firm that received millions, not hundreds, millions of pounds of taxpayers' money in instructions in a period and in part of that period of time, the person giving the instructions was closely related to the senior partner of that firm.

[00:03:51]Well, that would be highlighted.

[00:03:54]Now, in the case of 36 North, which Mr. Azopardi referred to yesterday, I mean, he should go back and check his notes.

[00:04:01]36 North was not applying for anything from the government. 36 North was negotiating with Bland's to agree between themselves the transfer of a contract. And when the government was told that they could not agree with them the between them the transfer of the contract, I who I then who then found out had an indirect interest in 36 North, made a decision against the interest of the company that I had an indirect financial interest in and in favor of Bland Limited. So, that would also be something that would be highlighted under the new legislation, but there would be nothing wrong with the decision taken because I took the decision against my commercial interest and in favor of the commercial interest of Bland Limited. So, I made a decision in favor of a company I didn't have an interest in and which is associated with Mr. Azopardi's GSD. And he uses that and he uses that as a way to beat the government. Well, look, I mean, he needs to think a little more before uh thinking that those are the sorts of things that can damage the GSLP Liberals.

[00:05:03]>> Chief Minister, you give me an example, uh but yet, would the law catch out government-owned companies?

[00:05:10]>> Government-owned companies are in a relationship with the government, and therefore the government is instructing them all of the time. So, government-owned companies within the sphere of influence of the government because they're in ownership of the government, but when the government-owned companies are dealing with third parties, then they will be subject to the same sorts of constraints that we're dealing with because remember that they the directors of those companies are the Chief Secretary and the Financial Secretary through corporate vehicles, etc. So, you know, that is not a way that the government is trying to somehow avoid the provisions of this legislation which the government itself is making and which is going to be a catch-all which is going to deal with all of the issues identified in the McGrail inquiry and the Open Shore report. And I'll tell you something more.

[00:05:59]Our draft law is being looked at outside of Gibraltar as a potential model for much more advanced economies and democracies as being a better model than the Canadian model.

[00:06:12]>> Chief Minister, this is legislation your government hasn't introduced in 15 years. It's an Open Shore report recommendation. Do you feel it's necessary?

[00:06:21]>> It's something that in my view was not something that was necessary. I'm very clear about that. We've had this debate in the past. I'm not going to pretend that this is something that I put in the manifesto and I believed uh should be done. This is something the GSD put in their manifesto and they said should be done and we did not believe should be done. We believe that there are provisions in Gibraltar to protect against conflict of interest with the ministerial code etc. I think in misunderstanding some elements of what happened during Mr. McGrail's time as Commissioner of Police the Open Shore inquiry has made this recommendation.

[00:06:55]It's a recommendation I respect. I've said I'm going to implement the recommendations and therefore for that reason I've asked someone independently to assess how to best implement the recommendations in the context of Gibraltar. I haven't just asked any Tom, Dick, or Harry. We've asked Mr. Daniel Greenberg who is the expert in the United Kingdom to advise us on how to do it and that that is how we're doing it.

[00:07:18]You I couldn't think of a more objective way of doing something that the government has not believed is necessary but in a way that gives effect to the recommendations and therefore demonstrates our respect for the findings of the McGrail inquiry and by the way, an inquiry that let's never forget into the actions of a Commissioner of Police who was found to have misled the Governor was found to have surreptitiously recorded his senior officers and the attorney general, and who the report tells us was lucky not to have been removed before.