QCIB Apr 30 2026 - Pat Book, Lone Voice Of Dissent

Added: 2026-05-08

[00:00:00][music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] >> From the [music] offices basement to your ears, this is the weekly meeting of the Queen City Improvement Bureau.

[00:00:37][music] Each week the dedicated staff of the bureau meet to try the distillery into McDonald's, sample the parking, and wander around the buildings of of I guess the [music] Brandt Exhibition Association or whatever it's going to be called.

[00:00:55]Uh That's later.

[00:00:56]>> [music] >> Uh until that day comes. Wait, one day I got ahead of myself. One day we'll escape this subterranean hell that is this sub sub basement. But until that day comes the city is not going to improve itself.

[00:01:11]So here we stay improving things.

[00:01:16]This meeting >> [music] >> is now in session.

[00:01:23]Hello. Hello. How are you doing? Ah, great. Yeah? Just great. Hm. Yeah. Hey.

[00:01:30]Hey, Paul. Yes.

[00:01:32]We we I'm using your name before we even got to the attendance.

[00:01:35]>> I know. I've worked up a little a little role play for us.

[00:01:39]>> Oh, joy.

[00:01:39]>> Just something to liven up the you know, the these these these dull these dull evenings at the in the sub basement.

[00:01:48]>> another one of those like workshop things, some kind of like team-building exercise so that we can work together better? Yeah, it's I'm sorry about the last one with the trust fall. Right.

[00:01:59]>> Yeah. Yeah, I went to the bathroom when you fell over. Yeah. Yeah, right into the right into the mud.

[00:02:04]>> Yeah. Thanks. Yeah, but I mean I was yeah.

[00:02:06]What can I do? What can I say? Yeah.

[00:02:08]Yeah.

[00:02:09]I It's weird.

[00:02:09]>> again, when we were doing it over the hot embers.

[00:02:12]>> [laughter] >> I know. And then again, when we were doing it over the pit of the the flesh-eating scarabs.

[00:02:17]>> Sooner or later you're going Wait a minute, are you are you confusing [laughter] this with Temple of Doom?

[00:02:23]And then when I was eating the monkey brains. And then when I got my heart ripped out by by Anyway.

[00:02:29]Um sooner or later you're going to have to stop trusting me. Yeah. And just keep standing. Yeah, I'm a trusting guy.

[00:02:35]Yeah. Yeah. Any anyway, uh I Right here. What's I'm I'm going to say there's I know uh behind you that looks like a pit. Mhm. But but the faithful man can can like actually cross it. So if you wouldn't mind just >> [laughter] >> taking a like a little tumble backwards.

[00:02:51]Uh okay, how about after the meeting?

[00:02:53]Okay, that's good. Yeah. And there's a cup I have to like offer you. Okay.

[00:02:57]Anyway, uh so role play exercise. Yes. Okay. So in this role play exercise, you are Regina City Council.

[00:03:06]Okay, I think I can do that. And I am >> Do I like am I all of them in aggregate?

[00:03:11]Yeah, you're kind of like an agglomeration like a few an unholy fusion. Okay.

[00:03:16]>> Uh into one sort of political entity.

[00:03:18]Okay.

[00:03:19]>> Many arms and legs and limbs and and whatnot.

[00:03:22]Uh and I am >> Accountability. KBI.

[00:03:26]>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Here we go. I'm new here.

[00:03:31]I don't know how any of this works.

[00:03:33]That's that's pretty much all of them right now. Anyway, and I am going to be uh Mr. Uh Branderson J. Brandt. Okay.

[00:03:41]>> CEO of Brandt Industries.

[00:03:43]>> All right. And and and miracle cures.

[00:03:45]Okay.

[00:03:47]Hey, City Council.

[00:03:49]Uh hel Oh, welcome, sir. Haha, I'm great. Do you Let me roll out this carpet for you so you don't scuff your shoes. Okay, roll it out farther with more sycophancy this time. Sorry. Sorry.

[00:04:03]Sorry.

[00:04:04]>> Thank you. I don't even know why I'm thanking you. Do you want this coffee? I I would love it. Thank you very much.

[00:04:08]Now I have I have a proposal for you.

[00:04:11]Ooh, a proposal? Yeah, a proposal. Yeah, I want that parcel of land. Yes, I feel [laughter] Oh, I will on Twitter. Okay, I'm I know we're supposed to yes and >> [laughter] >> But there are limits.

[00:04:31]It's actually x.com now.

[00:04:33]That's right.

[00:04:35]>> [gasps] >> You're not here yet.

[00:04:38]>> [laughter] >> Yes.

[00:04:40]Anyway.

[00:04:42]I have a proposal for you. Ooh.

[00:04:44]>> A non-marriage proposal. No matrimony involved. Unless unless you know, we'll we'll talk. Okay.

[00:04:51]I would like that big parcel of land over there with the big leaky buildings, and the McDonald's, and the distillery, and that parking lot.

[00:05:00]And I'm willing to sell it to you for these thumb tacks in my pocket.

[00:05:05]>> [snorts] >> Thumb tacks?

[00:05:06]>> Yeah, and you have to reach in and grab them. Ooh, with pleasure.

[00:05:09]>> Ah, that's right. And if and if you get like tetanus or any other disease, you're on the hook for paying for your medical bills.

[00:05:15]>> only make sense.

[00:05:16]>> And I'm going to sue you for harassment for reaching in my pocket. Oh, please do. That's right. Ah, I think I think we've got a deal here. Would you like this coffee? Ah, yes. How about a hot stone massage? Ooh, now we're talking.

[00:05:29]Please Please warm this coffee more in your stomach and then feed it to me later. Thank you.

[00:05:36]Can do.

[00:05:37]>> Just That got real weird. Anyway.

[00:05:42]Hang on, we got to vote on this. Oh, yes. Approved. Ah, yeah.

[00:05:48]It is all coming together as I have foreseen. Yeah, it's actually Palpatine.

[00:05:51]Anyhoo.

[00:05:53]Should we do attendance?

[00:05:54]>> We should do attendance.

[00:05:57]I'm Aidan. And I am Paul.

[00:05:59]No anagrams today. We're too busy.

[00:06:02]We got we got it's we're getting serious. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:07]We're and this is the Queen City >> They were leaky and Brandt wanted to buy our anagrams. That's right.

[00:06:12]>> [laughter] >> And they bought them for actually more than they're offering for real. It's true.

[00:06:19]>> We made off big time in this deal.

[00:06:21]>> Yes. 6.72 million. Yeah. Anyway.

[00:06:26]We also have a guest. We do.

[00:06:27]>> His name is Pat Book. Yeah, we've had Pat Book come before. Welcome back, Pat Book. Proven improvement vector. You are.

[00:06:35]You have You have the paper to prove it?

[00:06:37]Yes, I do.

[00:06:39]You were also distinguished yesterday for being the lone voice of opposition at the executive committee meeting on considering the Brandt and real deal that spoilers passed.

[00:06:53]Uh executive committee was what, like a seven to four vote? Yep. Yeah. There were actually four people I know um Councillor Zukiwsky must have voted against. Yep, Flores did and um Redons did and uh David Fro voted no, but boy he wanted to vote yes.

[00:07:14]Yeah. It's I'm surprised given given what I heard about Fro's comportment. Yeah. Yes. All right.

[00:07:22]>> Yeah. Oh, I I can offer well, Paul can too, I think some insight into that vote. Uh I think he made very clear not only during the meeting yesterday, but at his town hall the night previous that his his intention was to serve what he heard from his constituents. Mhm. And I think there very much was a message in his town hall with Councillor Flores that uh you know, it was interesting. Uh the role play being what it was.

[00:07:47]Uh there was an appreciable change in tenor when councillors were speaking with Mr. Semple as opposed to say, oh I don't know, myself. Yeah. Uh and uh I like Councillor Fro, I think he's doing a lot of good work, especially for a first-term councillor.

[00:08:04]A lot of people come in and watch for a long time till they feel comfortable doing things, but uh he does things and that's great and I like that.

[00:08:13]Uh but he did uh once Kevin Semple was taking questions uh note that he read in the room at his town hall a lot of excitement, which is not at all how I would describe it. And I think his vote reflects what I saw in that room as well. All right. So the the excitement was not for the deal to be passed. There was the excitement was for this thing to be shut down. Yeah.

[00:08:38]Um he also noted that uh when the deal goes through I don't think he said when.

[00:08:42]If the deal goes through me and my kids will be the first to line up at the revamped Brandt Centre. I assume that's what he was talking about.

[00:08:50]I don't think he's taking his kids to the nightclub. Yeah.

[00:08:53]>> [laughter] >> I don't think they get far past the walk of fame. Yeah.

[00:08:57]Yeah. We'll get We'll they could walk right under the velvet rope.

[00:09:03]Um yeah. You know, so You must be this tall to get into this nightclub. Yeah.

[00:09:09]The uh >> [laughter] >> The the drawings I finally saw them right before that executive committee meeting, the drawings of what he's planning to do. And very Trumpian, I got to say. A lot of black, a lot of glass, a lot of gold, and a lot of chandeliers in that distillery. Mhm. What?

[00:09:28]Yeah. [clears throat] Chandeliers? Yeah, like a hallway of chandeliers.

[00:09:33]That was the last thing I expected to hear. Yeah. Yeah. Well, he also did say casual place, you could you could wear your blue jeans. Yeah.

[00:09:42]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:09:44]So I'm sure >> While you while you dust their chandeliers.

[00:09:46]>> [laughter] >> I'm sure everybody rolling out of Aggribition with their blue jeans on will belly up to the gilded bar >> [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:09:55]as quick as they can. Yeah. So how was it being in there? You were like one of the pillars of the community who came [laughter] out to talk about the Brandt deal.

[00:10:04]>> I've long suspected, but it's nice to have it confirmed I am pillar-esque.

[00:10:08]Yeah. Um yeah, I mean you >> kind of an ionic column.

[00:10:12]I would prefer to think of it as iconic.

[00:10:13]>> Oh, nice.

[00:10:15]>> Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Um yeah, I mean you described me as the voice of opposition. I think in the moment I was speaking I I went in and I Well, man, I compared my presentation significantly because after the full agenda came out with Brandt's presentation materials, the full roster of speakers, and the uh level of enthusiasm that other speakers were presenting. Uh I think I'm a big believer in reading the room. So, >> Yeah.

[00:10:46]and I've been around council meetings for 20 years. So, I know if you are the one guy going in guns blazing, there is a tendency to write off a strong objective opinion. So, >> Mhm.

[00:10:56]and I genuinely think like the problem I always had as a news reporter was there was never enough airtime or column inches to really get into the details that a lot of these types of things deserve because editors don't want you to go on for 3,000 words about every single council meeting.

[00:11:14]>> Yeah.

[00:11:15]But, there's nuance to it and I think I have a lot of sympathy for the councilors, those both for and Well, maybe not so much those for, but for those that are against, they're in maybe the worst position of a lot long stretch of time because the administration is making it clear this is kind of the only way to retain anything on this site without redirecting a lot of money that the public has recently stated should not be going to >> All right. things that aren't what most people would consider, I guess, priorities.

[00:11:56]>> Right. So, it is like the definition of damned if you do, damned if you don't if you're skeptical about this deal. And when I went in yesterday, I was skeptical.

[00:12:07]But, I was willing to suspend a bit of that if we could get some more insight into not only the details of the deal that's before council, but also what came before it.

[00:12:18]>> Yeah. If we could learn about what the city offered and what this company biggest company in the history of Saskatchewan as far as I know.

[00:12:26]Okay. As I don't know. It's a group of companies and he was very much trying to parse that on the floor of council, the division between Brandt and Brandt Sports and Entertainment.

[00:12:37]>> Right. Yeah.

[00:12:38]But, there's there's a lot of stickiness to this notion that we can't say things because, oh, the administration signed an NDA. Yeah.

[00:12:53]Which, yeah, that might be typical in business when you're dealing with what I assume are depending on how you cut it, half a million or half a billion dollars, could be a billion dollars.

[00:13:09]>> Right. Uh a lot of this to the layperson like me, which is the position I speak from, uh is theoretical and hard to get your head around. So, >> Yeah.

[00:13:19]I went into it thinking, well, maybe I'll pump the brakes a little on things I might otherwise say to ensure that the ears don't get turned off immediately.

[00:13:31]>> Mhm. Right. Yeah. And if I had information, I think I could maybe tip slightly over the line of not only is this going to happen and it has to happen one way or the other to maybe there's good that can come out of this. Right. And all that was torpedoed >> [laughter] >> after I listened to Mr. Semple make his presentation. But, maybe that's getting ahead of the discussion. Oh, I don't know.

[00:13:56]Um cuz I don't know. Like I I listened to the whole thing.

[00:14:00]Uh it took me it took me a very long time to get through it all. And I've come out and I'm like, I'm on board. I'm a 100 and 100% on board. I'm 110% on board now.

[00:14:11]>> Whoa. Yeah. Are we still role-playing?

[00:14:13]Yeah. Set aside all the red flags, the land value, set it all aside. I'm like, this deal did not go far enough in my mind. We could have unloaded all of REAL on Brandt [laughter] and we didn't. We held back Mosaic Stadium. What were we thinking? The tens of millions of dollars we own on the stadium, pocket change for a mighty industrialist like Mr. Mr. Brandt Semple.

[00:14:44]>> [laughter] >> I I I just I just I was I I introduced the figure of Mr. Brandt earlier hoping it would infect this hour of radio.

[00:14:53]>> Oh.

[00:14:54]And it Oh, he comes to us and says, I don't want to pay property tax on this because I have to dig my way out of an $11 million deficit hole, so I shouldn't pay property tax. Leave aside the fact that he's not paying property taxes on any of his major operations in or near the city.

[00:15:15]Why should he pay tax? We could turn the whole REAL campus into a libertarian prayer paradise.

[00:15:25]>> Whoa. Whoa. Okay. No taxes. A libertarian state. Like right there in the city. Exactly. You You roll up to the beautiful arch that he's planning to put in for his distillery. You roll up to that golden arch and there right there there would be like a little kiosk for Bitcoins or Mhm. Brandt coins.

[00:15:46]>> Whoa. Oh, nice.

[00:15:47]>> And the whole time you're there on campus, you can spend your Brandt coins.

[00:15:51]>> drink a simple sling at the bar.

[00:15:53]>> Exactly. And you know that he's going to be putting in these digital screens, the power boards inside the arena, and that could be like a ticker for the whole crypto market, and then you would know how much your your Brandt coins were worth. Can you buy a thousand beers for your friends or are you an indentured servant to the Brandt company for the next 50 years?

[00:16:16]>> If you enter If you're unlucky when you enter, you may never leave.

[00:16:19]>> I'm I'm concerned that so many innovative revenue tools are coming out right now you make yourselves obsolete.

[00:16:24]>> Yeah, I'm I worry about that.

[00:16:26]>> thing, >> replace us with an AI. Yes, we are going to have to give up if we when we give when we give Mr. Brandt the whole of the REAL district, we will have to give up things like the Affinity Plex where all that soccer is played and the Cooperators Centre where all that indoor ice is for people to play like community sports like like like hockey.

[00:16:48]But, hockey moms and soccer dads, they are on the vanguard of the don't raise my taxes army. And now they will get to, you know, live in a world where they don't have to you sign their kids up for subsidized sports. They can pull the pay the full price in Brandt coin.

[00:17:10]Whoa. Okay, so during that whole presentation, >> Yeah. were the words pickle and ball mentioned? Oh, yeah. They were They're like the one group and I I think this is one thing that Mr. Brandt has made a big mistake on. They're the one group that's getting completely screwed on.

[00:17:26]>> Oh, really?

[00:17:27]>> Yeah, they're They're going to be kicked out of their building and their their their lease is up.

[00:17:31]>> You don't want to mess with the pickleball people.

[00:17:34]>> Yeah, they've already messed They've already messed with the skateboarders.

[00:17:37]Uh they were tearing down their half-pipes.

[00:17:40]Their half-pipes are are just kindling now.

[00:17:42]>> Those are a bunch of punks, those kids, anyways, Sophie.

[00:17:45]So, anyways, that's where I That's how I felt after that meeting.

[00:17:50]Yeah, uh well, I I did have to leave before uh Mr. Semple got through. Okay.

[00:18:02]Uh well, uh by my calculation, [snorts] I was one of two or three people who weren't actively being paid to be in that room counting on some down flow economic activity >> Yeah. uh sliding in their direction at some point.

[00:18:22]>> Right. So, you weren't you were offered no Brandt coins.

[00:18:24]>> children to pick up from school. I had dinner to make. I had dogs to park. Uh there were life concerns. Like you can't For someone who has to take a day off work and then it ends up being your entire day, Yeah. it's not really feasible to just sit in the room till things are resolved. So, >> Yeah.

[00:18:46]I I'm glad I got to say what I had to say before I had to leave and I think I I went through several versions of my address. Uh the councilors would have seen two, three others that I, you know, Yeah. feverishly typed out and deleted because some of them were too sassy and some were too safe. Uh it was tough it was tough to find the right tone, but what it came down to for me and what I've heard a lot of people say, the property tax is the biggest thing that I that I've heard people talk about. They don't want to pay property taxes ever and if they have to after the first 5-year exemption, they want the city to pay them 95% of it back in a grant, which feels like and absolutely has the structure of a quid pro quo, but I don't know what the other half of that is.

[00:19:33]Yeah. And then there's a litany of I think it's like 10 to 12 different other areas where any other property owner would have to potentially chip in costs or pay revenue directly to the city for services or access and the deal strictly indemnifies them from ever having to do any of that and like I said I've been watching city council meetings for 20 years as you have and the question of fairness is something that comes up consistently over those years and the other thing that comes up consistently over those years that I mentioned in the meeting is the clarion call from Pat Fiacco and every mayor since then that property tax is a outdated ancient system of revenue generation and we cannot rely on it and we need find other revenue sources.

[00:20:23]>> Yeah that's pretty much what we've got.

[00:20:26]I mean when it comes to revenue generation for cities. It's very limited. There's three. When I was at the city there were presentations for new councilors and sometimes old councilors cuz sometimes you need reminding of things but there's three revenue sources. There's property tax, there's transfers from the provincial government and there's user fees and the like. There's other categories but those are where that's where you get your money and if you can't do things like sponsorship rights which we've investigated and essentially jettison because there's too much administrative cost that goes along with it to make it worth the squeeze.

[00:21:01]So what are you left with? You're left with whatever you can find I guess but there's consistent areas like the rental of Confederation Park that any other event holder conceivably would have to do or ask to be forgiven that cost from the city and they have in their agreement they don't ever want to do that.

[00:21:24]Yeah. Okay.

[00:21:27]They want naming rights to the entire district and the revenue therefrom but elsewhere in the agreement the city would give them the autonomy to sell sponsorship and naming rights not only for their properties which sure fair enough but also for city retained assets which would include the stadium as long as they don't conflict with Roughriders sponsorship deals and in those instances they would split that revenue 50/50 with the city and yet despite being roughly equal land holders they want all the revenue from naming rights.

[00:22:02]>> Of course.

[00:22:03]So I just from a the standpoint of fairness and consistency with what this city has been saying for 20 years and the position of we can't rely on property taxes alone that's what I went in there to say. I don't understand how an administration let alone a council could stand by this when you're passing up these opportunities that we've identified for decades need to be in place in some form or another. Yeah. And the argument I'm sure will be one you're painfully naive two the knock-on effects of this surely would make up for those lost revenues.

[00:22:44]They have development rights which will net them money but it'll also net property taxes so when and I think it is when because it's something that's been talked about not only by Brant and their previous auspices to have more influence on how the district and at times other parts of the city would be developed it's clear that is something that they would pursue I think from a capitalist perspective.

[00:23:11]Lot of property tax comes from having a hotel that wasn't there before so yes you do have downstream revenues but when you have at least 30 25 to 33% of councilors who have suggested either overtly or through action that we should run the city more like a business I think that's something I said at the meeting. Successful businesses don't leave money on the table. Brant certainly isn't. They're coming to you saying this is the deal you take it or we're out of here and we're not paying for anything. We're taking on all the risk and we're never going to give you a cent of actual cash to help out the taxpayers looking at 15 10 7 who knows what property tax increases year over year.

[00:24:01]There's you know downstream effects are one thing but we have to be able to get there and then just thinking about other potential like we didn't even get into other potential impacts from this.

[00:24:14]If they want the city to help them fund and execute complete parking lot renovations in the next two years and add what to me is a ludicrous right in right out on Sass Drive that seems insane to me but the city's going to have to pay at least two million dollars for that is what I read. Yeah that's that that is bizarre plus >> have to negotiate this with the I think yeah of course. But then you have likely 15 million dollars 10 to 15 million dollars of cladding on those buildings other improvements that they want to make focused solely on the Brandt Centre but they do have to address 15 million maybe you can't put that into Brandt maybe there's others but from the holistic perspective that a city should and probably is we don't see it but probably is taking hopefully we're constrained with our short construction season and what we can execute in a year because there is limited money there's limited workers.

[00:25:14]City crews do some road work they contract out quite a lot of it.

[00:25:18]If Brandt a private company can pay well above what a city can to get that work done and they siphon construction workers construction materials to their priority projects where does that leave the city and the need to complete drastic projects like 11th Avenue which has been going on for three years question mark. Three.

[00:25:40]Is there a knock-on effect there that we're not anticipating of those materials being more expensive the work we can do being more expensive and there being less of it and are taxpayers going to be psyched of all of that? To add on to that we have the the indoor aquatic facility that is going to be built coincident with these improvements happening at Brandt.

[00:26:01]And we also have this AI data center down in the southeast that is also being built in theory right now. I was you know what I have been saying for the last several episodes loviating on about how this is never going to happen and I think I just I was probably wrong. It [laughter] seems like it's going to happen.

[00:26:23]No I think they're going to I think right we can get into this another time but I think they're going to build a shell of a building and then it will be a bingo hall.

[00:26:30]>> [laughter] >> Our bingo halls are severely depleted.

[00:26:34]>> exactly they're yeah we're severely under bingoed or under hold. This I think there will be a lot of construction there and I think you're right there's going to be a ton of construction because he wants to get all the cosmetic work and all the paving work done at the Brandt Centre before Grey Cup and so this is going to be bleeding off all of the material and workers as you said. Where does that leave the indoor aquatic facility and how do you think this council is going to feel if they get another visit from administration saying we have to add another 30,000 30 million sorry dollars to the price tag because labor cost inflation. That is not going to go over well and they've been they continue certain councilors trying to kill that aquatic center project which I think is a crucial piece of municipal infrastructure that has just been you know really hampered by indecision and bad decisions for the you know the duration of that project so Anyways we have to go to innovative revenue tools.

[00:27:38]>> Oh. Yeah. All right then let's do that thing.

[00:27:58]>> [music] >> And we're back from innovative revenue tools.

[00:28:05]Ah.

[00:28:06]Hall. Yeah what's up? I recently went to a hall and it was very dark.

[00:28:10]I turned on the lights.

[00:28:12]And it was dark hall. Still dark even with the lights on? But it but you could see but it was darkness visible? What? Is that a Newtonian right? Yes it is. Anyway.

[00:28:22]Whoa. Oh yeah we're getting literate up in here.

[00:28:25]Hey guess what else is coming up? What?

[00:28:27]Friday May 1st to Sunday May 3rd it's Jane's Walk. Jane's Walk. Jane's Walk.

[00:28:33]Jane's Walk. It's back.

[00:28:35]So this is about people in the community putting together tours of their community to talk about things that they find important or concerning or exciting or funny and they take you out and you get to go around. Some of the highlights are there will be a silent sensory walk in Cathedral a walk downtown that will be talking about the good the bad and the ugly [clears throat] of pedestrian infrastructure and there will be a walk through the Cathedral Forest Project which is in Lester Sherman Park and they are foresting a large section of the park next to the the creek there and they've two years now they've been planting trees getting close to their their next planting and so you can go take a tour see how the forest is coming along. It's really neat actually if you get a chance I'd recommend going checking it out.

[00:29:28]Small but non-zero chance of being possessed by the ghost of Jane Jacobs though. Yes I mean that always happens on these.

[00:29:36]So you can find out more about Jane's Walk Regina at their Facebook page Instagram account and you know sign the indemnification that they're not liable if you get possessed by the ghost of James Jacobs. One person every year during [laughter] James walk is possessed.

[00:29:55]It might be you. It might be you and you should be so lucky. Yeah.

[00:30:01]May I pitch an innovative revenue tool that I was talking to gentlemen?

[00:30:05]Thank you. I notice and I've been in a lot of radio studios in my day. I've never seen one with what I assume to be a communal back scratcher in it.

[00:30:14]Scratch.

[00:30:16]Yeah, I've never Yeah, they I've never actually used the communal back scratcher, but I know it's there. It might also be cuz some kind of punishment device Roger.

[00:30:24]Well, [clears throat] it brings to mind a notion. Okay. I don't know if it would be better off as a city council branded or a brand branded, but Oh, a back scratcher.

[00:30:34]>> There's back scratching going on.

[00:30:35]>> Oh, nice. Mutual back It just makes sense to make money off it. Do you know there's there's a possibility that we have not considered with this deal?

[00:30:43]That because there's the Brandt Centre, Brandt Industries might just be trying to like reclaim its ancestral homelands.

[00:30:50]Interesting.

[00:30:51]>> Maybe. Yeah.

[00:30:52]No, see I'm still convinced.

[00:30:54]>> [laughter] >> Oh, you're arguing with me on this? See, I'm objectively Well, no. Like you're right and I mean he has a claim perhaps on that, but Mr. Brandt really wants the Brandt Centre.

[00:31:07]Like it's it's leaking. It's not It's It's doesn't have like a forever life, right? Like it's past its half-life.

[00:31:15]Unlike the scratch himself. So, there's got to be something about it that we don't know that's awesome. Something underneath.

[00:31:22]Do tell. Go on. Yeah, so maybe like a diamond mine?

[00:31:27]>> A diamond mine? Zoinks.

[00:31:30]And I guarantee you I'm willing to bet that we are soon going to hear that the Brandt Centre needs to be torn down cuz it's haunted by the ghost of the hockey player Jean Valjean.

[00:31:44]Oh. And when we camp out there and catch him and rip that mask off his face Mr. Brandt.

[00:31:51]And he would have gotten away with it, too. Yeah. If not for those meddling QCIB co-hosts. Exactly. There is a an intriguing about-face there, right?

[00:31:59]From the guy who has been lobbying for years for a new arena to turn around and say give me your tired, your leaky barn.

[00:32:08]>> [laughter] >> Your weary event center. Did you catch though some of the little hints he was dropping?

[00:32:17]Were there hints, Paul? Were there teasings of things to come?

[00:32:20]>> I think there might have been. Do tell.

[00:32:22]I'm here for mention >> multiple times that this that what he's doing building an event complex that he'll be making profit off of is philanthropy.

[00:32:31]But that this is not the This is only the first investment in Regina that he is making. The first big investment that he's going to make and so he mentioned that two or three times that this is just the beginning. More change from his couch to spray up on the city. And the other thing that he let drop is he pointed out that the Brandt Centre as you said is not going to live forever and that eventually it's going to need to be replaced and then he said so maybe it should go downtown. Maybe that's the place that it should go. That's not a direct quote, but that's that's the little nugget the little nug he dropped Oh, nice. Okay. Okay. he is thinking about still a Brandt Centre replacement in the downtown. It's the nice thing about a hobby horse is you can set it aside once you get tired of it and it doesn't need to be fed and watered. You can come back to it anytime. Exactly.

[00:33:21]And so I'm like I think about this all >> him the city? Who just sold Brandt the city? We skipped to the end. Yeah, just just cut to the chase, you know.

[00:33:30]All this all this actual administration taking care of things. Yeah. I mean they'd still be taking care of things, wouldn't you? When you look at some of the buildings in this town, they're pretty broken down. So, I'm sure that most of the city is negative value, but based on the way they did the valuations in this report the Frantonia Brandt with the the Brantish Democratic Republic.

[00:33:51]I do think though it's it's It bothers me that this like this suggestion that there might not we might not be taking the Brandt Centre off our books completely, right? Like if if there's still somewhere in city hall and in the back of Mr. Brandt's mind this idea that there's going to be a new arena at some point in the future and that you know, the way these things usually work out is that the city foots the bill for them and then rents them out to a hockey team or whatever, then we're saying here that oh, we're saving all of this money because now we don't have the Brandt Centre and it's you know, deferred maintenance and its replacement costs on our books, but if there is still the potential of building a Brandt Centre in the near medium or even long-term future, it's not off our books, right? Like we're not paying into it right now, but we're going to pay for it eventually. Yeah. There's I said earlier that whatever potential support I might have felt for this plan was negated by what I heard from him and I think you know, character counts for something and I don't know him. I can't speak to his character. Other people there suggested that they could. So, I'll leave that to them, but consistency certainly should count in a partnership. Right.

[00:35:11]>> Right and um at the beginning of his presentation he was very clear when he said it's a very hard business and he recognizes it's hard business.

[00:35:19]Real never made money not once in any annual report he could find. Yeah.

[00:35:24]And he literally said I don't have the words in front of me, but so maybe I shouldn't say literally, but he did say talking about the financial aspect of taking this project on the financial thing you don't need to worry about that.

[00:35:39]Right?

[00:35:40]>> [laughter] >> Which makes sense when your group of companies has for quite some time made at least $1 billion of profit a year.

[00:35:48]Yeah.

[00:35:49]You could probably do that if you wanted to.

[00:35:52]He later said again citing how tough a business it is that they could throw everything Brandt has at this. They have a lot of levers that they could play with.

[00:36:05]Very strong message.

[00:36:08]Still later under questioning from Councillor Fro about whether or not he would be willing to stoop to the level of Regina citizens and go out and into the community to try to win hearts and minds and pitch his vision and get people on board.

[00:36:22]To which he replied why would I do that when there isn't a meeting of the minds.

[00:36:26]So, I think he knows what the public sentiment likely will be.

[00:36:30]But in answering that question he then pivoted I would say somewhat strongly to suggest that if he was to have to pay property tax ever it just wouldn't be possible. The whole thing would come down like a uh like a house of cards. That business he said that business cannot sustain having to pay a property tax and like reminder this is a forever thing. He wants 99 up to 99 years to lease the ITC, but he's getting the rest of the land forever.

[00:37:04]Yeah.

[00:37:05]So, in 2742 if Brandt Sports and Entertainment suddenly has to pay 5% of what an average commercial building holder would have to pay in a property tax at that point it all falls in on itself. Yeah. It strains credulity to me, but He also said something I thought was revealing there which was he talked about how if we were subject to property taxes we being Brandt of which we are all citizens now.

[00:37:34]Um that a council in the future could decide they want it back and just start charging whatever taxes they wanted and then claw back everything that he's built.

[00:37:48]And [clears throat] I'm like that's not how taxation has or will ever work, right? Like he you you just go to you go to a few council meetings, a few budget meetings and they're struggling every year to keep taxes on business and on residents as low as they possibly can so that they are forever broke at the city and can never do something like like a real district in the way that Brandt will be able to do it. But he is But he seems like imply that he saw government as there to like take his money and wreck his thing.

[00:38:26]And even though that's never been you know, a worry for him.

[00:38:31]But here we are. I don't I think I mean I I think I think the three of us are pretty on board with saying that Brandt's not giving a great deal to the city. Sure. But I don't I don't blame Brandt for offering such a deal. I mean that's their their business. That's kind of their job is to offer the the worst deal possible and see what happens and see if they can get that.

[00:38:54]Yeah, you would expect someone whose companies make potentially billions of dollars a year in profit to play hardball. Yeah. But But the city He We have something he wants. How How diamond mine >> How quickly could he conceivably walk away with it? I guess. Like he's talking about he goes around the world during COVID to meet every single employee in his many companies around the world.

[00:39:19]His son was on the call who works for him. His son was on the call from New Zealand for the entirety of the meeting which I think would have started at like 3:00 a.m. New Zealand cabin hole with a satellite phone.

[00:39:34]So, I I mean it's hard to gauge that against he talked about since he came up with this idea and started bargaining with the city he's basically done nothing else for the last 6 months. So, that's great and that's a lot of focused attention.

[00:39:48]>> a ballroom?

[00:39:50]>> [laughter] >> But is that sustainable? Like if >> [snorts] >> if you want to build a a nice nightclub that could be like your clubhouse and that could be where you hang out after your hockey team, you know, fills half of a hockey arena.

[00:40:05]You can have that, but is like does that suggest that he's in it for a very long haul because as you noted, he wasn't talking about this changing the city forever. He was saying, "Oh, what a few years ahead of us." Yeah. Yeah.

[00:40:20]That's very interesting. He never talked about decades, generations. No. Yeah.

[00:40:25]We're on 91.3 FM CJTR Access Now Community Radio with the Queen City Improvement Bureau. We're talking with Pat Book, the lone voice of dissent from yesterday's Executive Committee meeting.

[00:40:36]Um Yeah, those are those are excellent points. Um I You know what else he was talking about is one of the things that he has to do to make this go is he's going to have to double or triple the number of events at REAL.

[00:40:50]Okay. Which I found interesting because that was the same petard upon which >> Uh-huh.

[00:40:57]Tim Reid hoisted himself skyward like Icarus.

[00:41:02]>> [laughter] >> And uh fell. It I think he flew to the sun, Icarus, didn't he? I nobody's seen him. Icarus flew to the sun and touched it. Yeah, I I I He purchased a time share on the sun.

[00:41:14]He's doing great.

[00:41:14]>> Yeah, he's doing awesome.

[00:41:17]Um One There's one other thing that I wanted to bring up and it had more to do with like uh admin on the administration side.

[00:41:25]And it's this number, the $79 million that we're supposed to be saving from this deal. And CFO Darren Anderson, who's no longer Well, as of tomorrow will no longer be the CFO. Friday is his last day. Oh, what a What a way to go out. Yeah, right.

[00:41:41]Um >> [clears throat] >> he talked about how this deal was about, you know, playgrounds, accessible playgrounds for kids and tax re you know, keeping taxes low and you know, fixing potholes.

[00:41:53]And they cited the $79 million in savings. But the thing that bothers me about it and this was raised by Councilors Florez and Sackney as well during the meeting is that this is based on the idea that we're going to be spending $14 million a year on capital at REAL, which is not another thing that I think we've ever done unless we were building something like the stadium.

[00:42:15]And so, it's true that those buildings are in desperate shape and probably need $14 million worth of, you know, investment every year going forward, but that's not on our capital plan. So, this is not money that we've budgeted. This is not Those $14 million a year are not things that are, you know, that we that we have approved to get taken out of the million and it's going to make us accessible playgrounds, if in 2025 we couldn't build a ton of accessible playgrounds with ease without a 10% mill rate increase, nothing has materially changed for 2027 from this deal. It is still going to be just as difficult. And I think people are going to be they're going to they're going to feel like we've you know, we've lost all of this infrastructure deficit and so therefore next year's going to be easier and the year after that and when they find that the mill rate increase is still going to be like 7 or 8% they're going to be ticked.

[00:43:18]Yeah, and I it's the sort of thing where yeah, you can and I I tried to get into this I think when under some questions from Councilor Turnbull yesterday.

[00:43:29]You can understand the thinking behind it to a point. Yeah.

[00:43:35]But and I think everyone in the room probably bristled at my suggestion that that's theoretical cost. Right.

[00:43:45]>> Because when Councilor Bizo incorrectly talks about we're losing $300,000 a week, that's not true. And that's that's not the cap The money they will save in operations doesn't even come close. Like that is the operation money. Not theoretical money they haven't had and haven't spent and would not have spent.

[00:44:05]Like we wouldn't even know that $79 million number, I don't think, if this offer had come forward unsolicited. Like people don't If people haven't picked up on that yet, he came to them Yeah. and said at a time when rage in the public is higher than as far as I can tell it's ever been about the city's debt load, the inability to add new projects, and the highest some of the highest tax increases ever conceived in the modern era, Yeah.

[00:44:32]to me sounds like someone smelled an opportunity. Nonetheless, I don't think we would have that number if they hadn't gone through this process. So, without this happening, there wouldn't have been a push to say, "Well, gosh, let's put 10, 12, 14 million dollars into those buildings."

[00:44:48]Because and again, this is a thing I could not get into in my presentation yesterday, but was in previous drafts.

[00:44:57]What I've seen from this council in regards to those other contentious topics is the sentiment that we are the new council.

[00:45:05]Yeah. This die These dice were cast decades ago when the city got it in its head that 0% was ever a good idea for your property tax rate.

[00:45:17]This is a pretty direct outflow of that notion that we had to save people from having to pay any more even though the cost of everything goes up every year. That's human inevitability.

[00:45:30]And for a councilor to come in and say "It's not my fault." That is technically true.

[00:45:37]But when we had the election show November 2024, you guys had me on. Yeah. Great time. Yeah.

[00:45:45]Indeed. Not maddening.

[00:45:47]>> [laughter] >> You asked at the end of that show what I wanted to see out of this council and I think I said the two things I've been saying to people who care for a very long time. One, have a serious conversation about service provision and what we can afford to do and what we should be doing with the community. We're kind of having that now, but again, not at the behest of the city or the council. An outside force is compelling this conversation to happen. The other thing that I said, make this a full-time job because what we're getting in some of these ridings, not all of them, but some of them, are people who have never engaged in council processes or paid attention to council issues beyond what shows up on the front page of the paper, but have a lot of axes to grind and they're looking to grind them in a direction they're not even sure of when they get in the door.

[00:46:34]And it takes that kind of person a long time to get up to speed. Whereas if you had people who were politically engaged and recognized the issues they were walking into, they could conceivably come into council with ideas of things to try. So, while it is technically true, this is not their fault. But any one of those councilors around that horseshoe could have come into this term and said, "Geez, we really heard last term COVID kicked the heck out of REAL and it might not ever recover.

[00:47:07]We know that there's infrastructure debt everywhere in the city. Gosh, we probably have that at REAL as well.

[00:47:13]Maybe I should have an idea of how we could address a piece of property and a philosophical service that the city has been doing for by some estimations nearly 150 years.

[00:47:27]Maybe that's worth protecting and maybe we should try literally anything to right that ship."

[00:47:33]Nobody did that. We've tried nothing and we're all out of ideas. Thank goodness Regina's rich stepdad has come in to bail us in. Yes.

[00:47:41]And I have a lot of questions and frankly a lot of disdain for how this deal has come up. Well, that's not one-sided. I wish we had more than one councilor or two councilors who were not only going out into the community actively to solicit opinion on this, but somebody who would have come in with a notion that something should be tried and we can be creative and try things. We're not just here to rubber-stamp whatever we get from administration or to lobby against whatever we get from administration depending on your philosophical bent.

[00:48:16]We can try things. We have levers of power of our own. We don't have to wait for capital and capitalism to dictate our actions.

[00:48:25]>> I think I think that that's where kind of where I was going earlier when I said that, you know, I don't blame Brandt for doing what it does and off- offering the the deal that benefits Brandt.

[00:48:35]I blame the city for not for not doing anything and then taking this deal.

[00:48:42]And really.

[00:48:43]Yeah.

[00:48:44]And and I I think I suggested yesterday and again tonight there is an air of inevitability about it. If we're taking bets, I think it'll probably pass 10 to 1 Yeah.

[00:48:54]if not unanimously. Yeah, I think it'll be 10 to 1, but yeah, that's where my money is. Yeah, and I and I again, I you sort of can't blame them and I have on on one side of my head, I fully expect that this effort will be successful because I don't think Shaun Semple gets into something with a high degree of opportunity to fail. That's not how you get where that family has gotten. Right.

[00:49:21]But I don't see anything from him that [clears throat] suggests that he truly wants that success to be felt mutually because if if it was, he literally called it philanthropy. Yeah.

[00:49:33]I don't know what kind of philanthropy anywhere else in the world hinges on you getting acres and acres and acres of real property. Yeah.

[00:49:43]And the opportunity to print money off of that by developing a very significant portion of that. Yeah. I don't know how you can win a lottery you didn't enter.

[00:49:56]But I sure heard that we were winning the lottery a lot. Yeah.

[00:49:59]And I I don't I just there's so I just can't get my head around it. And again, I I think in a lot of ways I I'm naive about the machinations of corporate money, but I don't get the mentality of a lifelong Regina resident saying I really want to help my community, but you give me exactly what I want and we won't have a discussion about anything else. Yeah. That doesn't feel like winning the lottery. That feels like you're being compelled to bend to someone else's vision. Yeah.

[00:50:33]Yeah.

[00:50:34]And I that is the most cynical take I can offer on it, but it's You came you came to the right place.

[00:50:40]>> head it's increasingly becoming the the the only real tangible explanation.

[00:50:46]>> more like you're not winning the lottery, you are the lottery fund. Yeah.

[00:50:49]And and time will tell, but Yeah. you know, it's a lot of time before we're going to know for sure, I think.

[00:50:54]>> Yes.

[00:50:56]I think you've like the fact that council ends up not having to make those decisions about what a city does that you had raised before uh is really fascinating in that we'd never we never had the discussion of should we continue to have an exhibition as a city? Is that a thing a city should do? Mhm.

[00:51:16]In the in the uh contract Sample gets to make that decision, right? If >> Functionally, yes. It It says in there if the QCS is not making a profit, if it's no longer like a good business, he can end it, right?

[00:51:30]And without violating any terms of the contract. So, yeah, we are basically handing the hard decisions to a corporation and like taking us out of it completely.

[00:51:42]So. By virtue of I don't know if you would call it inadvertent neglect like there there is a Yeah. there is a long chain of culpability with no one definitive direction for a finger to point. Yeah.

[00:51:58]And like when do we start worrying about what's next?

[00:52:04]Like we're doing a lot of work downtown because we need a lot of work downtown.

[00:52:08]Yeah. But we don't I mean, we have plans that we've largely ignored for the last 10 or 15 years.

[00:52:14]>> Invested nothing in. So, what becomes our community?

[00:52:19]Yeah.

[00:52:20]Let's have like if this if the administration needs alternative revenue sources and we don't have any and we can't create any because the provincial provincial government gives municipalities those powers and they've made it clear, I think, that they're not interested in granting them.

[00:52:38]What's left? I fear service level or service entire services being deleted from existence because there is only so much money. Or sold for cheap. And if we don't have those conversations, what's going to compel us to act next? Mhm.

[00:53:00]On that happy note.

[00:53:02]>> [laughter] >> We are >> We pretty much out of time. Thanks for coming in, Pat. It's always Yeah. a pleasure.

[00:53:10]Genuinely. I said I had fun yesterday and I did. This is always more fun. Oh, thank you.

[00:53:15]>> [laughter] >> But yeah, we've got to get moving. All right.

[00:53:19]Uh should we move to adjourn the meeting? I would second that motion.

[00:53:23]Nice. I'm glad that we follow Robert's Rules of Order so closely.

[00:53:27]The [laughter] meeting is adjourned. Uh motion passed, meeting is adjourned.

[00:53:30]You've been listening to the Queen City Improvement Bureau [music] on 91.3 FM Access Now Community Radio. Tune in to the community. Uh your hosts are Paul Dechene and Aidan Morgan. Music by Guidewire, aka Ryan Hill.

[00:53:42]Uh our guest tonight, [music] Pat Book, certified improvement director and friend of the show.

[00:53:50]Uh you can find us uh we broadcast live [music] as right now 7 to 8 p.m. on Thursday evenings and we broadcast Monday afternoons 3 to 4 [music] p.m.

[00:53:59]Listen to us when you drive. It's great fun.

[00:54:01]Uh Also, of course, uh you can find us on uh Access Now Radio and our website queencityib.ca.

[00:54:10]Uh Coming up next, we've got probably the record room and then there's more music, more music, more music and it never ends.

[00:54:17]All right, that's it. Keep on improving Regina.