Live with BPD RAW

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[00:01:37][music] [music] Great. I'm muted. School be wearer. Good evening. Good evening. Good evening. And good morning to everybody that's joining us from Australia.

[00:02:16]Huge hello and thank you to everyone.

[00:02:18]Today is a special one. Raising awareness on mental health. I love doing these ones. So, I'm joined by a special guest by the name of Denine.

[00:02:27]So, welcome back to Beginners Talk.

[00:02:30]Today's episode is dedicated to raising awareness for borderline personality disorder, a condition that is often misunderstood, heavily stigmatized, and really talked about. So, I'm with a I'm with an expert today. So, I'm joined by Denine, founder of BDP RAW, author and mental health advocate through BDP RAW.

[00:02:51]Denise shares honest unfiltered experiences of living with BDP while others had while others feel seen and unheard and understood.

[00:03:03]In this conversation, I'll explore what BDP is, re the realities of living with it, the challenges that people face, and how their friends and family can actually help them. So, sit back, relax, grab your cup of tea. I haven't got mine. I had to turn around a look. But um I'm going to bring on Denine now. So like, share, and subscribe. Share with anybody that you know that has BD Borderline personality disorder or somebody that could be helped with this.

[00:03:33]So guys, let me bring on the pro now.

[00:03:35]You've heard heard enough of me. Denine.

[00:03:38]Thank you very much, sir, for joining me.

[00:03:41]>> Thank you for having me.

[00:03:42]>> You're most welcome. How are you? Okay.

[00:03:45]>> Oh, a little bit tired, but I'll get there. [laughter] What's the time? Is it 5 a.m. there?

[00:03:49]>> I got my I got my cup of tea as well.

[00:03:51]>> Good man.

[00:03:52]>> And is it 5 a.m. there?

[00:03:55]>> Pardon? Yeah, 5:00 a.m.

[00:03:57]>> Wow.

[00:03:59]So, an extra huge thank you from the bottom of my heart for joining me.

[00:04:04]>> No problem, mate.

[00:04:07]>> Okay, so let's get started.

[00:04:10]So, before we start, do you actually have borderline um personality disorder yourself?

[00:04:15]>> Yes.

[00:04:16]you've diagnosed with it. And how long have you had it?

[00:04:20]>> Um, thinking back, I've had it my whole life, but I was only diagnosed about eight years ago.

[00:04:27]>> Is that the norm to be diagnosed, but then have it all your life?

[00:04:33]>> Uh, that's a good question. Um, I actually haven't spoken to people about that really.

[00:04:40]It's my experience on it.

[00:04:43]>> Okay.

[00:04:44]>> Yeah.

[00:04:46]Give me one second. I've lost my questions.

[00:04:50]>> No problem. Don't worry. I've lost my answers. [laughter] >> Okay. So, for those that don't understand it, what is BDP?

[00:04:59]>> What is it? Okay. So, it's it's based you have high emotions for everything.

[00:05:05]There's lots of trust issues. Um, so it you need to you need constant. The reason that I said firstly that um I realize I've had it all my life is if we think about the community today people don't communicate.

[00:05:24]There is no community anymore. So in my younger years I think I dealt with it better because people were able to communicate. People weren't texting on their phone all the time. People actually speaking and people were as busy. People are busy and more interested in what they're doing than what other people are doing.

[00:05:45]>> So, can you come just your mic a little bit?

[00:05:49]>> Spear pardon.

[00:05:50]>> That's it. That's better. You sounded like you were miles away. Even though you were, but [laughter] [clears throat] >> Okay. When did you realize something wasn't quite right first? Or your family didn't realize with you. I'm going back to your experience.

[00:06:06]>> Um when I didn't feel anything was Okay.

[00:06:08]So basically I in my childhood um I had a bipolar mother uh alcoholic compulsive gambler father and um I'm not sure whether BPD played a part in that at that time it was this is basically what's led me to what I do today being the caring side because basically I wasn't nurtured as a child.

[00:06:33]I basically had to grow up really really fast. Yeah.

[00:06:36]>> So, um I ended up I ended up um also coming out as gay and because I was basically angry at my parents because I didn't get my childhood. Me coming out was totally different. I basically done it in anger. So, I I ended up on drugs. I actually ended up in jail um short period of time um through stealing. I I actually became a compulsive gambler. Um and yeah, so I ended up all throughout through that I ended up moving over like running overseas, ended up getting married. I was just actually on a holiday and met someone and they said, "Oh, let's get married and stay." So I ended up in Canada and I was traveling through Canada. Um I end the marriage didn't last. I ended up back in Australia eventually, but that's what led me to writing my memoirs. I've got some memoirs I've written about traveling and I thought I was running running away. So I um my first book written was um sorry my mind is not with it. [laughter] >> Yeah.

[00:07:50]>> Yeah. It's where I the places I didn't belong. And now today I've just recently done another one. maybe I did belong. So I worked out throughout my journey I actually needed to be there. So my BPD didn't really hit until I came back to Australia when I was 50.

[00:08:10]So I went through all these different things, drug usage, everything.

[00:08:15]And yeah, it just everything hit when I came back home. I never wanted come back to Australia >> cuz I done a bit of research. A lot of it does depend on a child's background, don't it?

[00:08:26]Most of it comes from child childhood trauma, but you also hear of people that said that they've had a great childhood.

[00:08:34]So yeah, when it comes I I haven't spoken to many people like that. So I I don't that part confus there's a lot of parts of BPD that confuse me personally because don't relate to them. Like there's a lot of people have BPD that have suicidal tendencies. I don't.

[00:08:55]>> Okay. Talking about suicide, I spoke to somebody the other day cuz they said to me, "Oh, you're doing a live on BTB borderline personality." He goes, "I know somebody that committed suicide from it." I'm going back about three three four months ago. And I was like, "Really? Is it that bad?" And he goes, "Yeah." And I didn't even know. It's only when I started to look into it and I thought, "You know what? It's actually quite serious."

[00:09:16]>> Oh, yes. Yes. Yes. For some people it really is. Look, to be honest, I have borderline, but I've come to the um conclusion I don't want to be fixed.

[00:09:27]>> Yeah, >> I don't want to be fixed because we have some fantastic qualities.

[00:09:33]>> Definitely. It's like It's like when you talk to a kid with autism or you talk to their parents.

[00:09:39]>> Yeah.

[00:09:39]>> They've got they've got better qualities than others, haven't they?

[00:09:43]>> Yes.

[00:09:45]So, what's the main difference between like ADHD and borderline personality disorder?

[00:09:51]>> Well, not having ADHD myself. Um, I [clears throat] that's a good question. Um, because I don't know. I actually my my housemate has ADHD and I actually think he's borderline. So to be quite honest, I can't I don't notice a difference in people that I've met who have ADHD.

[00:10:14]>> Okay.

[00:10:15]>> Because >> So when you got when you got diagnosed, what was the what was the journey like >> when I got diagnosed? Well, it was like cuz cuz I grew up around labels. I I'm comfortable with labels. Without a label, I don't understand myself. But to be honest with my borderline, I have that severe trust issues that I don't trust a label because there's so many other things to go with it and I don't have it. So it's like, yeah, okay.

[00:10:48]>> So, um, >> yeah, it was good to have a label. I have many labels throughout the years, but >> I still don't fit. But I think that will always be me. But I'm a lot happier today than I am was years ago. So >> amazing.

[00:11:06]>> Okay. So what the >> Sorry, just be one minute.

[00:11:19]>> So what does an emotional high feel like and what does an emotional low feel like for yourself or somebody with a severe case of borderline personality disorder?

[00:11:30]Well, um because I don't really suffer the lows. Um people with that, um suffer that can go into paranoia, hearing voices, seeing things. It can it could This is why um I think some people can rel um relate it to bipolar. There are a lot of people out there who have both, >> but yeah, I don't really suffer the lows. And I think personally with me, I think it's actually an inbuilt something like cuz my mother had borderline and I never wanted to end up like that. So I think I have something stopping my brain that stops me going past that. So I can bounce back fairly quickly. But a high, it's like you it could be like euphoria, like a mania. So that's why people can relate it to bipolar. So I do have the highs, but not really high.

[00:12:24]So like you know so you know like you said you you you're not really high. Is there different stages? So you could be at the the the the first stage which is kind of like yeah you got you got borderline personality disorder and then at a higher stage.

[00:12:40]>> Well it can it can flip. You could it be it could be like a coin. You can be right one minute and high or low the next. So basically, if if if like let's say you're talking to someone, they can say a word or show you something that triggers from your childhood emotions, from your childhood trauma, and it's like if you get your knee hit with a hammer, like doing the reflex test.

[00:13:05]That's how instant it is. So at the time, people can know that it's happening, but you can't control it.

[00:13:11]>> And how does BDP affect your relationship with your family, your friends, your partner, etc. Um, very much so. Um, I actually have had partners all my life, but they've all been very toxic. Um, so I've actually haven't had a partner for about eight years because I wanted to well actually shorter than that, probably about five years because I wanted a deal on with myself. Um, the problem when you have borderline is you need constant >> attention. So it's Yeah. You Well, not no constant in everything. So if something changes, we panic.

[00:13:53]>> Yeah.

[00:13:54]>> Yeah. So if you So it's just like receiving um another example, if you receiving a text message on the phone and someone's in the middle of text messaging you and they suddenly stop, we can go into immediate panic thinking those people are going to leave us. We can even go to the extent, oh no, they've been in an accident. it would be that.

[00:14:17]So yeah, it's it's you you're constantly alert.

[00:14:21]>> Okay. So what are the common misconceptions about um BDP that frustrate you?

[00:14:28]>> Oh golly, don't get me started. Okay.

[00:14:31]That we're unlovable.

[00:14:33]>> Really?

[00:14:35]>> Yes. Yes, we're unlovable. The thing is we are probably the most lovable people out there. That's I believe it's a superpower. As long as you have someone that is understanding and constant in what they do in their life and with you, it could be it could be a perfect relationship. Um, also that we have multiple personalities.

[00:14:58]I I sort of make jokes about that when people say I say okay and then I then I go in a different voice. Okay. Okay. But no, we don't we don't have and yeah that were narcissistic stuff like that is just unbelievable because people people talk about borderline with people that don't have borderline >> of course. Yeah.

[00:15:21]>> Because they're scared. Yeah. So we quite if you're open and honest we're going to be open and honest with you.

[00:15:28]But yeah it's frustrating.

[00:15:32]>> What about schizophrenia? Did you get told that you're schizophrenic a lot?

[00:15:36]>> No. No. No. Probably because I don't have the lows and I don't have the paranoia. No, I've never had that. But I did have an auntie who was schizophrenic, so I know what that's like.

[00:15:48]>> What are the hardest moments you faced living with borderline?

[00:15:53]>> Say that again.

[00:15:54]>> What are the hardest moments you faced?

[00:15:58]>> The hardest moment is Yeah. when um I got discriminated at work and ended up in the in the courtroom.

[00:16:07]>> Wow.

[00:16:08]>> Yes.

[00:16:09]>> How long did that go on for?

[00:16:11]>> Um that actually went on for 3 years.

[00:16:16]>> That's a long time. So since you started BDP Raw, Borderline Raw, how many other people have come forward and said, "Look, I'm borderline as well."

[00:16:25]Well, in I've been going the group on Facebook has well the page on Facebook has been going about seven eight weeks.

[00:16:33]I now have have over 700 followers >> in what in in two months?

[00:16:40]>> Yes.

[00:16:41]>> Wow.

[00:16:42]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:16:45]>> And how do you cope with intense episodes?

[00:16:50]>> How do I cope?

[00:16:51]>> Yeah. Or how can somebody cope?

[00:16:54]Um, well, how I cope is I just ride the wave. It's in lots of ways I'm I'm lucky that I can do it. I just have to keep on telling myself it won't last.

[00:17:09]Um, some waves some waves can last two minutes. It just depends on what's in that in that what's happened in that time period. But um yeah, it's just about because basically we have different parts in our brain like everyone does and there's negative and positive but we've got to realize that they they're all working for the greater good.

[00:17:34]>> You need to have that negative part in your brain in the positive.

[00:17:39]>> 100%.

[00:17:41]>> Yeah.

[00:17:47]Have you ever felt misunderstood by people around you?

[00:17:51]>> Say again. Sorry.

[00:17:52]>> Have you What about feeling misunderstood by people around you?

[00:17:57][laughter] [clears throat] >> Constantly.

[00:18:00]Constantly. People don't, as I said, in my younger years, people talk. So, it was easy to understand. People don't listen anymore. We've lost the art of listening.

[00:18:14]I think if people listen more, they'd understand more. But yeah, I Yeah.

[00:18:21]>> Okay. What are the tools or strategies that have helped you manage your your emotions?

[00:18:26]>> Do do you do like yoga or breathing exercises or anything like that?

[00:18:30]>> No, no, no. Um, music.

[00:18:33]>> Music and my animals. My dogs >> have therapies like B DBT helped >> uh DBT um schema ENDR um I've basically tried them all but because of my severe trust issues >> I couldn't I it was like walking that door they're not going to help me they're not going to help me they're not going to help me because Even with therapy, um, unless you have the right person, if there's a change, you start to doubt things. So, you have to have when it comes to having BPD, you have to have that constant. It has to be the same all the time. So, yeah, it just it didn't work for me. The only thing that actually, and I'm still waiting for it, is psychedelic therapy.

[00:19:30]>> And what is that? Sorry.

[00:19:32]>> So, it's it's drugreated.

[00:19:34]>> Okay. So, um, like, um, in I don't know what the language is in the UK, um, like tripping, like psychedelics.

[00:19:44]>> Oh, yeah. When you're kind of like monged out. Yeah. You're in your zone.

[00:19:47]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, there are there are currently trials trials in Australia um for MDMA.

[00:19:55]It's like a it's like psychedelic drug.

[00:19:58]And in my younger years, well, I I I'll be honest with I've used recently. It basically evens me out. So, being a gay man, I'm actually uncomfortable around men.

[00:20:09]>> Yeah.

[00:20:10]>> That actually changes me. I can walk up and talk to people and it's not you don't see someone who's drug affected.

[00:20:18]You just see a normal happy everyday person. So, there has been lots of trials on that um with borderline that have helped a lot of people. So, it could be a game changer, but it's not like the street drug. It's like medically. Yeah. Like Yeah.

[00:20:34]>> Prescribed >> medically based. Yep.

[00:20:37]>> Okay. What does progress or recovery look like for you personally?

[00:20:43]>> Me helping people. That's the only thing that's made me progress.

[00:20:46]>> Amazing.

[00:20:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. I' found my voice. So do you think by talking about it, raising awareness about it, you with your Facebook page or holding workshops or whatever you do, talking about it, if if you know if you know you've helped somebody else, do you reckon that helps you at the same time as well?

[00:21:05]>> Oh my god, I've had tears from people when they said thank you. Not that they can see.

[00:21:12][snorts] >> Oh, so Bob, what's the best way someone can support you with borderline?

[00:21:18]As I said, be constant.

[00:21:21]>> Be around them all the time.

[00:21:23]>> No, no, no, no. Constant in what you do.

[00:21:25]If basically, if you say you're going to be somewhere, be there. If you're if you're if you're in a conversation, especially with text or on Facebook, close the conversation off before you leave them.

[00:21:40]I I it in this day and age, we're all busy and I understand there are times that something happens and you can't.

[00:21:49]But try try remember when you're in a conversation with someone or when you're dealing with someone, close when you open a door, close the door before you leave. You know what I mean?

[00:22:02]>> So, is that like if you're going to finish a WhatsApp message or a text message, have a lovely day, something like that?

[00:22:07]>> Yeah. Yeah. Or I'm busy. I'll have to get back to you. I'm not feeling well.

[00:22:11]I'll get back to you.

[00:22:13]>> Okay. So, >> otherwise we tend to go and panic.

[00:22:16]>> What should people avoid doing?

[00:22:20]>> Oh, saying get over it or you're an attention seeker.

[00:22:26]>> Really? Did you get that as well?

[00:22:28]>> Oh, yes. Yes. And while you're talking, trying to explain, interrupting you saying I understand, but I haven't even told you anything. Um there I did have one um thing that really frustrated me um was a lady who'd been married for 15 years um was diagnosed and like well into their marriage and brought home a booklet for her husband to read. He threw it in the bin. He said, "I already know you." So it's been like it's okay.

[00:23:04][laughter] It's like she's trying to share something and it was just close the door straight away. People don't want to listen.

[00:23:14]>> Fair enough.

[00:23:16]>> Okay. Um, how can loved ones educate themselves better? Because I didn't know I didn't know nothing about borderline. It's only when you spoke about it and we spoke about it on Messenger and on the phone.

[00:23:27]I was like, "Hold on, what is this?"

[00:23:28]It's only then when I started to talk about it when my video went up and other people started to say, "Yeah, I've heard about that." I was on I was on a Tik Tok live and some lady said, "Oh, when are you doing that borderline disorder thing?" So she obviously she'd heard about it. So I thought, "Hold on." Then obviously someone mentioned about the the suicide that happened. So I thought, "Yeah, this is quite a common thing."

[00:23:46]Then I start to look into it myself. I think whoa, it's actually serious.

[00:23:53]>> Yeah, it's probably one of the most stigmatized diseases out there. We we have um personally I've had psychologists that I've approached and as soon as you said you've had borderline they say they can't help you.

[00:24:09]>> Really? That's it. They just cut you off.

[00:24:12]>> Yes. Yes. Yeah. Because especially borderline um when it comes to therapy um I believe the best therapists are lived experience people >> because >> because they haven't experienced they're just reading from books aren't they?

[00:24:28]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:24:28]>> They haven't actually had it themselves.

[00:24:31]>> Yeah.

[00:24:32]>> Okay. Do you still feel do you still feel there's a stigma about borderline?

[00:24:36]>> Say that again.

[00:24:37]>> Do you still feel there's a stigma?

[00:24:40]>> Oh yeah yeah yeah. And unfortunately when it comes to stigma, we ourselves tend to wear the labels.

[00:24:50]So we will call oursel cra that's that's what tears me up when I'm on some groups in Facebook and people talk about themselves and give themselves the labels that people are giving them. And it's really frustrating like I'm crazy and stuff like that. like you're diagnosing yourself crazy. You're only calling yourself crazy because other people are calling yourself crazy because you're out of which I hate the word normal. What's normal in this world?

[00:25:21]>> Yeah.

[00:25:22]>> I tell you what, the world would be a boring place if it didn't have people like us.

[00:25:27]>> Okay. What would you say to somebody that's scared to seek help?

[00:25:33]>> I understand. I understand. Um, I think that the best thing to do is to look into people with lived talk to people with lived experience first.

[00:25:48]>> Mhm.

[00:25:49]>> Reach out there. Um, go on to some of the Facebook groups. Uh, there there is a lot of help out there for people now as it's getting more recognized. But you're not alone. Just try and think of the good things that it brings. It's sometimes it's really hard when you're going through your emotional lows and thinking that you're not worth it, but at the end of the day, we Yeah, we have amazing things that we can give our community.

[00:26:22]>> Fantastic. Okay. In your opinion, what needs to change? how society views borderline >> and so more more lived lived experience people with lived experience have to help us >> okay >> I don't think the yeah I I actually don't think the every standard day therapist um really understands what we're going what's going on >> okay have you ever personally struggled with identity or knowing who you are >> constantly.

[00:27:01]Constantly con well now, now not so much. Now not so much. Um but yeah, constantly.

[00:27:11]>> Okay. Um what does self worth selfworth mean to you compared to before?

[00:27:22]Um, that's a good question. I'm trying to think. So, my selfworth has basically got power through adversity, power through pain.

[00:27:40]Fantastic. Okay. If a younger Denine could speak to himself now, what would you say to him?

[00:27:48][snorts] Ah, [laughter] I I I knew you were going to ask me this question and I had the answer. It's like golly. Um, >> could you just repeat the question again? Thank you.

[00:28:09]>> If a younger Denine could speak to himself now, what what advice would you give him >> to a young to yourself?

[00:28:17]>> Yes. Yes. Um, your journey is going to be a long one, but it's going to be worth the ride >> and believe in yourself.

[00:28:29]>> Excellent. Okay. What message do you give to listeners to take away from your story?

[00:28:41]>> That mental health can be a superpower.

[00:28:46]>> I love that. You know that.

[00:28:50]Okay. Today, what gives you hope, Denine?

[00:28:54]>> Uh, the book that's going to be released.

[00:29:00]>> Let's talk about that. What's it called?

[00:29:03]>> Okay. So, I actually it's probably just going to be called BPD RAW. So, basically, all it is, well, it's I hate using the word all it is because it's going to be fantastic. So this is going to be a book of letters, raw unfiltered letters from BPD sufferers to help stop the stigma. So we have letters of suicide, everything.

[00:29:29]>> So this will I think this will be a great book for the therapist, everybody to learn more about BPD.

[00:29:36]>> And when's it coming out or is it already out?

[00:29:38]>> It's not it's not out yet. Um we've had a few technical issues. I'm hoping it was going to be out by August, but it will be out by the end of the year.

[00:29:48]>> Okay, before we go, where can people follow you?

[00:29:51]>> Okay, so you can follow me on Facebook um bpdraw. You can also f my website um bpdraw.com.

[00:30:01]You can also follow me on Instagram at dne dub. And yeah.

[00:30:10]>> Okay. And before we wrap things up, um did you manage to nominate anybody for me?

[00:30:17]>> Um yes. Um Kelsey Dunar at Stronger to Tougher.

[00:30:23]>> Excellent. Tell me a bit about Tell me a bit about this.

[00:30:27]>> Um he's just someone probably he does podcasts himself and I just he's like he's like I got to be honest, he's like my straight man crush.

[00:30:40]>> [laughter] >> He just really I just really resonated with him and he's a great he's a great talker.

[00:30:47]>> Okay, fantastic. If you send me your details, I'll I'll reach out. That's fantastic. But Denise, thank you very much. It's been an absolute honor >> and I want to wish you all the best. I want to thank you again for waking up at stupid o'clock to come and join me from Australia.

[00:31:00]>> That's okay. No problem, mate.

[00:31:02]>> Okay. All the best indeed. Thank you very much.

[00:31:05]>> Have a good one. Bye-bye.

[00:31:06]>> Take care, guys. Don't forget to like, share, subscribe, follow Denine on his Facebook page and all the rest of his um pages BPD RAW.

[00:31:17]You don't want to miss out. Look out for the book as well coming out soon. Den, thank you very much, sir. For the best.