Hope returns to Bengal after election results

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[00:00:00]Hello and welcome to the Sunday Guardian podcast by Jita Basu. Viewers, I had promised that after the Bengal results are out. If you remember that show particularly that we had uh before prior to the election, four Bengalies from Delhi got together that we will get together again. So here we are back together discussing the results what is going to be what is happening in Bengal right now and what the future holds. And you have already met the guests once. I have with me Mr. Gotham Lahiri who has 40 years in journalism. He has been four times elected president of the press club of India and his former member of the press advisory board uh body of the government of India. I have and plus of course several other things. I have Mr. Gotham Mukhaji who is a Delhi based right of center columnist and panelist on English news channels. He's a good writer also. He has his own columns. He has been writing for he used to write for the Sunday Guardian. And we have Hindul Sang Gupta who is professor of international relations at OP Jindal Global University. He is an author of 13 books and he he's a rising intellectual in Delhi scene I would say.

[00:01:14]>> How long I will keep rising maybe I've risen. I am like I am like India for rising.

[00:01:20]>> No no he has risen. So >> because she's Hind. Yeah. Hindu.

[00:01:26]Okay. Welcome to the show gentlemen. The first question obviously did anyone expect the landslide win that Mammuda had? I am I'm going to say that I was expecting sorry not Mamuta BJP I mean um Mamuta will be very happy to hear I said that. But the thing is you see BJP I was expecting to win but no uh I was not expecting a landslide. I was expecting a very close fight. Yeah. What about you Mr. Palahi?

[00:01:54]>> Yeah, if you remember that I have told in the last show that was before the poll. So I told the MDA had an advantage. I didn't mention any number.

[00:02:05]I why advantage? I thought the traditional vote bank will be united uh as consolidated as it was earlier but later from the voting day I found that definitely there is some already some problems. I have seen in my own eyes though from Delhi in from the studio.

[00:02:25]>> So that's but I didn't expect that that time I had an idea that BJP now has an age >> but I didn't think that BJP will have a landslide but so in other in your sister organization I told that if it happens then it will be a tectonical shift of Bengali mindset. So that actually happened.

[00:02:46]>> Mr. Mukherji were you expecting? I was as I've said several times I was expecting about uh 155 and instead of that we have over 200 and uh that is you know it's it's something you hope against hope and it has happened because uh it gives the new government that is going to be sworn in a chance to make a lot of changes with very little uh opposition because with 80 seats or less you can't expect them to mount any kind of you know they they're famous for their dhnas and their uh you know ros and so on now they won't be able to do it and even if they try I don't think they'll get very far they don't have popular support that is obvious the kind of celebrations that you're seeing in the streets uh you know uh looks like a like a liberation movement.

[00:03:54]>> Yes, >> there are lots of people who are celebrating like okay I can celebrate now.

[00:04:00]>> Yeah.

[00:04:01]>> Uh without fear and uh they have been doing that.

[00:04:05]>> What about you Hindor? You said that you were expecting a landslide. What what why do you say that >> the BJP to win for the simple reason that I think look it has been coming this point has been coming in Bengali society for a while you know some Bengali in Kolkata were always delusional and continue to be delusional about what's going on in their state and in their city but if you talk to people across Bengal this point has been coming in fact this point should have probably come earlier Mtab Banerjee's great failure I never See Maban she did not do anything. She tried to do some things. She tried to build some new infrastructure. She tried to give some welfareism and so on and so forth. She cleaned the city a bit. But the fundamental architecture of politics in Bengal which is essentially that of a party state. You see you and I live in Delhi. All of us live in Delhi. Delhi NCR. Right now whoever comes to power politically actually does not impact our lives much. Governments come, governments go, we go on. Right? But in Kolkata and in Bengal, it makes a big difference because it is not merely a political party taking over the reigns of government. It has become a party society. The CPM created a party society where all levers of day-to-day life are controlled by parties. I'll give you one example. One of the first people who went running to meet BJP politicians after the news of the victory of the BJP happened was people from Toywood.

[00:05:41]>> Why are the Have you ever heard that in Maharashtra once a new government comes to power the first thing all the producers go running to meet the new party? No, because it doesn't really impact their lives. They make movies and that's it. In Bengal it matters because their entire edifice is controlled by the party in power. the the whole bunch of people opened new studio doors which they were banned out of. They did a press conference saying and I'm going to say this in Bengalian translate they didn't let us enter. Also these are technicians and producers and there was one video of the leading TMCbacked producer getting basically thrown mud on and being thrown out of all this doesn't happen in Maharashtra. All this doesn't happen in Andhra Pradesh. All this doesn't happen in Tamil Nadu. All of whom have vigorous politics. But the movie industry does what it does. It happens in Bengal because in every lever of power the party is inserted. This is the problem. And that's why when uh Gautam Babu is talking about how there was it seemed like a liberation movement these people like finally I can even say something without fear. This is the problem. This is the fundamental problem of Bengali society. So when you when Hindi is talking about Bengali society the question you know when we are talking about it is actually like a liberation movement the way people are celebrating but you see there this mental block I would say particularly Bengali what is known as bhadoko society I mean the uh gentry if I can use that word uh would you say that they have been able to come out of that mindset about you know that cowbelt party the BJP being a Hindi- speaking party not Bengali enough. Uh you see my whole question is because primarily when you see constituencies in Kolkata you know when you see balanch rash bihari I mean not balanch balj is a different thing rash bihari and those lake gardens those areas and all when you see that I mean these areas have voted shap kupta winning by 20,000 uh margin >> so do you think a mindset change is happening even in this straight up of society >> well what uh After analyzing the result, I found that actually this is not for a prob BGP vote. It was actually both against DMC and MTA energy. So perhaps the people were people wanting to change his government. Let's see after that we will see again kind of thing because in 1977 what I have seen that people were not speaking silently they voted they changed the government they were not vocal even in 2011 cha that was the slogan of TMC >> go quietly and vote the flower >> this time also I heard some of the bites the people are taking whether I will die if I say the truth.

[00:08:50]So this women's so this time perhaps they went inside the booth and voted against PMC despite getting all kind of welfare policies of the mas they have benefited but you know what happened actually after 10 years 15 years their children have grown up the children have a different kind of aspiration the mother is getting 15,000 it's okay even the 17,000 for the C and ST women but their Students have some kind of a new aspiration. They want to see that seeing through this modern outfit of the mobile they see the whole world. So where we are going should we live with all these dolls and these politics. That's why that mindset I think and that is why exactly uh the people this time wanted a change which actually I can admit that I didn't also not don't recog at the very first time I didn't recognize but I found that ma able to do it but in some areas even I found this time sitting in the Delhi studio that even the minorities are not happy with majolution for me because they wanted to vote against Ma but they can't vote in favor of BJP. So they're voting Congress and TMC and NOSA and human these people have cut into Ma's original vote bank. That's why if you analyze the constituency find because of division of minority votes many TMC seats were gone to the BJP.

[00:10:25]Secondly another thing also I found similar case with the women. women didn't end block I saw in mush first of polling I was in a studio I see the reaction of a women Hindu women she was saying oh I am whether are you unhappy with the sire process we said no the outsiders were driven out so I am happy so Hindi women's I saw they are speaking in a publicly that they are happy because of it's a peculiar kind of reaction which we didn't think sitting here in so this is the reason why >> yeah please uh no no uh Mr. Muk G you see here I have I have a theory actually now my theory is that it is because Bengal has witnessed so much migration you know it is not just a mobile the move towards the mainstreaming of Bengal started long ago because everybody is moving out they are seeing how the rest of India is and then they're going back home and they're witnessing what is missing over there so I think that push that came it is not actually about the physical ical movement not only about the physical movement of the migrants but also over the years this mindset has started changing. So perhaps this is why one of the main reasons would you would you agree with that mainstreaming of Bengal something that we have been ruing that Bengal is not mainstream >> and a breakdown of the ideology you know there's a lot of talk in Bengal of Bengali culture Bengali history uh leftist bias as part of the DNA uh all this has broken down. What has happened instead?

[00:12:18]Uh I don't know to what extent it's because of migration particularly to the other states but you know Bengali have gone all over the world. They're still in uh you know prominent positions particularly in universities and the like in Europe and America.

[00:12:37]uh they're quite prominent in corporate business either at the top or very near the top. They're directors of companies.

[00:12:48]You've got all of that and you've got the internet and you've got the the the OTT. You've got a total cultural shift that has happened not only in West Bengal but elsewhere amongst the young who have seen that uh that there is you don't have to do everything in a formulaic manner. There are options and it is possible to have storylines.

[00:13:19]It's possible to secondguess the official version of news and views and Ma Banerjee in particular because it's a onewoman party. Everybody else follows her lead is so badly out of date and has been so out of sync with the sophistication that has come to the poor people because of their exposure that she was totally irrelevant anymore.

[00:13:58]the kind of things she said are not resonating and haven't been resonating for quite some time. I think the TMC would have been kicked out in 21 if the center had used this kind of blanket protectionism that they did for this particular election >> where people could come out and vote without fear. That was very important this time.

[00:14:26]>> Yes. uh Hindu uh before I move on to actual the nitty-gritty of the politics part of it in Mammuda and the violence that is going on right now uh the question that I have for you is that when you are looking at jaam is such a big slogan in Bengal suddenly but it's not if you're looking it is not organic because Bengal is a goddess worshiing state so it is about joy ma kali joy madura and all do Do you think this uh Jashri sudden craze that has come in I would say for the last five six years do you see it lasting or do you see it uh blending into what Bengal has been woriing?

[00:15:11]>> Well, you have to also remember that the BJP who won this time embraced more than ever before the entire goddess worship tradition.

[00:15:21]>> Yes. The prime minister went and worshiped at Kalihat >> and for everybody >> Tonia sorry at Ton not at Kali at Tontonia Kalibari. Now many of us know of course that goddess worship is is is you know is is a tantric tradition essentially and it has none of the stuff that people in Bengal had been told the BJ will force down their throat which is vegetarianism which is that only you can do certain things only certain people and certain casts can do this others can't so people in Bengal had been fed a whole bunch of things that oh these outside people will come and do these things to you. That began to shatter because once you see Narendra Modi himself going to Tonia Kalibari then you realize oh and then your local BJP guy is carrying around a fish showing you that look look I'm carrying fish no one will stop you from so this very simplistic equations then begin to break down and they begin to break down on top of this resentment that we've been talking about you know I was recently in Kolkata and Kolkata is like shinga city you know like shinga's cat it is simultaneously dead and alive right that you allow me to explain yes durau puja is now you know a intangible heritage of the world and so hugely people from around the world go for dura puja right and yet many many Bengalies from around the world and in Kolkata will tell you they really resent the fact that from a dura pujo it has been made into a shoddya ut they're not saying you don't make a woodshop.

[00:17:06]>> They're saying you have tilted it so far to a woodshop that the pujo part of it has disappeared. They're not saying it shouldn't be inclusive. They're not saying let everybody celebrate nothing.

[00:17:17]They're saying it should be inclusive.

[00:17:20]But they're saying at least keep a balance. You cannot strip away all the devotional aspect and make it just like a art exhibition that everybody showcases their art and that's it. The same thing with Shushudhi bujo.

[00:17:33]Bengalies take such great pride in intellectualism.

[00:17:38]In the last 5 years and 10 year or maybe 10 years this new thing began in Kolkata that supposedly shushuti pujo is Bengali Valentine's Day. You will be surprised how many people from Bengal across Bengal, Kolkata and various Bengali I know from different parts of the world wrote to me saying what nonsense is this? Because these are things that Bengali others may not understand but intellectualism all of this is important. Education color >> exactly um you know all of this is very important to the Bengali culture. So you strip away all the things that are there and make this into a meaningless facade a meaningless parade. So this people object to I am just going to sort of uh add a caveat to what Gautam Babu was saying. See it is true that uh you know this Hindu thing took time to percolate into Bengal but please remember that Bengal was the place that gave us Anandamat. Bengal gave us Vand Matram.

[00:18:42]Bengal had this whole tradition of warrior monks. Bengal also is the place where Shaw Prasad Mukharji worked. So I actually feel you know the journalist Sheila Bhatt wrote when she went to Bengal that she see she was feeling what she felt in Gujarat 25 30 years ago see and people in Kolkata don't understand this if you go around Bengal I'll give you one example one of the most notorious examples there's a temple in a village TMC goons have built a Taj Mahel replica in front of it and put that I love whatever that village is in front of them or somewhere some >> that's right >> which immediately people broke down >> this has happened in countless places in some format or the other so it may not be so strong in in Kolkata but in many parts of Bengal people were like hurry I want to be Hindu in the way you are intruding and you want to disturb my practices there are so many instances where you know they will not let you do shushi bjoo now because it happens in some border area villages it never percolates to Delhi but people in those areas in rural Bengal know what's going on. So there was a huge fervor and this jiram I agree jashiram was never very common in Bengal but people then took it up as a sign of rebellion that you're pushing me on this side so I will throw it back on your face they may go home and then do kalipujjo only and pujo but they using it they're instrumentalizing it that day also you see the crowds that have gathered outside obishek banji's house and around Mohammad banerji were saying jashiram jashid now they were not saying jashiram to worship Ram per say they were instrumentalizing saying you always abused us about this here we are throwing it back on your >> has become a sign of protest >> exactly the slogan has become a sign of protest absolutely >> so tell me something uh how is it that Ma Banerjee who is such a canny leader who has a grassroots risen from the grassroots the way she struggled how come she never realized the mood on the ground at least the way she's talking right now then she talked about that she's not going to leave her chair and all that. What exactly is she trying to achieve? First of all, why didn't she realize this or did she realize and whatever she's doing now it's all bravado and posturing.

[00:21:04]>> No, actually this is her kind of style of even know he she is not accepted the defeat. She is saying I am not defeated.

[00:21:12]I was so she's not resigning. And you know yesterday's in the elected legislature party meeting she asked all the MLS to stand up and clap Ahishek. There were 75 years old MLS 80 years old MLS because the speaker they had to stood they had to stand up and to say that you please greet Abhishek you have won because of him. Now very interesting thing I heard today perhaps published in some newspaper one MLS he is not aish he is aisha and he said in front of ma >> oh my god >> and also 11 mls didn't participate in that meeting >> yeah that she heard >> so the kind of thing so she is in a mood that in the same mood which she used to be as a CM they don't accept the reality which you can just imagine buddhaju who accepted defeat when the results were not out he went to rajan and immediately placed his resignation that's a bad bangani culture which Bengal was missing par because of this kind of thing so in fact I would say whoever be the chief minister in the BJP from BJP they have to take into account this kind of culture which prevails in Bengal culture means it's a routing culture. Well, one may describe is a makian way that they are theariat or the lumpen proarat. They used to describe them as this numpen will be there. They will find their place in the new government. So that government has to be very careful otherwise there will be no change in Bengal. That is a very serious challenge for the new government. People are expecting what we are witnessing for last 15 years. BGP has come now they should change that culture. It is we have to see what is h what happens after that. This is a very tough thing to happen because you see I mean we are recording it on uh Thursday and we know how the uh literally the assassination of Shuhindu's uh PA happened Chandraanath Roth on Wednesday night a >> and how can Bengal come out of that literal cycle of violence culture of violence I mean what some TMC MP has talked about DNA of political viol in Bengal's DNA. Political violence is in Bengal's DNA. I mean that is the most atrocious. So do you think it is possible for the new government to come out of it? I mean to help Bengal come out of it.

[00:23:54]>> Absolutely. I think uh it's a matter >> because Mandabanji has got 40% votes.

[00:24:00]>> It doesn't matter her votes. It's it's part of the historical past. you know, she had to get some votes and she got half of what, you know, was expected by by by a lot of analysts. If if you just stuck to the Muslim vote, she didn't even get that.

[00:24:23]She got a fraction of that or say twothirds of it. What is going to happen now? I believe I don't think you can run Bengal by looking in the rear view mirror. We had a process of protest to chuck the British out.

[00:24:44]>> That was, you know, if you like, the right kind of political mobilization, uh, at least in terms of our, you know, freedom and Bengal was the first at it and then it was picked up by Punjab. I believe what has to happen now is rapid development, jobs, return of industry, return of uh services such as it, not a little park attached to the backside of of of uh you know uh Salt Lake, but a you know a proper exposition of Bengali talent. you know idle brain devil's workshop there's nothing to do whoever is in Bengal has nothing to do but politic and no money so extortion so all of this will stop if there are avenues and I do believe that the business community of Bengal that has sustained it through thick and thin uh you know the borovajar the you know The Marwaris, the Gujaratis, the the Punjabis that never left. They are as Bengali as the rest. But they have the ability to run businesses.

[00:26:13]These people will flock to the BJP standard and invest money and cause the government to invest money. And of course um you know the it's the BJP way to spike up the GDP with uh a lot of capital expenditure because for this you don't have to turn left or right ask the uh public or the uh private sector and so on because they come in much later when they feel a little more confident.

[00:26:47]But there is absolutely no reason to run Bengal like it has been run by TMC.

[00:26:56]worse by the um by the by the communists and prior to that at least the last years of uh the Congress government was also mired in nxelite uh you know violence.

[00:27:12]uh all that is is this is all part of a long nightmare that has now ended and we do not have a reference point a viable worthwhile reference point in the last 50 years. So it has to be something brand new and on with the show. At the same time you have to stamp out violence where it occurs with a very firm hand.

[00:27:42]There's no toing and throwing on this.

[00:27:44]No Gandhianism, nothing. Uh we may take a page out of the UP book which was also a very lumpen, difficult place to run and is now aiming at over a trillion dollars in in in GDP. It has stopped being a sick state. Bengal has every opportunity to do all this. And if a yogi can make it happen in two terms then BJP can do it in one and it needs to do it in one.

[00:28:17]>> Hindul what do you have to say because you have been writing a lot about industrialization of Bengal. You wrote in the Sunday Guardian about Bengal's industrial history. What do you think the new BJP government can do to reindustrialize Bengal given the fact I mean given the culture of the state as well?

[00:28:38]>> So I agree with Goautu to a degree that fundamentally that state is deeply at a mass level some people have a lot of money but at a mass level it is hugely cash starved. People want money. They have no avenue to make that money. Then the where do they get money? The only way to do it is by this petty politicking and everyday extraction. It has become at a lived experience level and extraction economy. That doesn't mean some businesses are not flourishing. They are. But please remember in the last decade or so more than 6,600 companies have relocated their headquarters and their offices from Bengal. That cannot be a good sign. It can be a good sign for any place. Now the entire thing is you know and let's not go into what some MPs of of the Chinamu say. In fact those MPs have brought down Mohammad Bandhabad. The hysterical haridans of TMC have brought down Mohammad Bandhabad by by giving a wrong advice and at every given opportunity hysterically shouting and screaming about things that they don't understand. Bengal was built and Kolkata was built as a major industrial trading economic hub. It has every opportunity.

[00:30:03]It has a massive port advantage. It has it it can build rebuild that infrastructure. I believe I believe what the BJP will do now is basically this two-pronged formula. D for dunda and D for development. So you spend huge amounts of money in capital infrastructure because you know capex as you know has a huge multiplier effect.

[00:30:28]You know this is basic economics. It has a deep multiplier effect. If you put in capex, you will realize all sorts of ancillary industries will benefit and people will get more money. That's very simple economics that does not need any, you know, proletariat support or anything. You just pump in the money, you build. This is exactly what is happening in Asam. By the way, Assam's GSDP is growing and galloping not because huge businesses are flourishing in Asam, but because huge amounts of money is being pumped into build infrastructure around Asam, which was starved up infrastructure. The other thing is what Gautabu was saying is pure danda, right? You cannot cure Bengal unless you take the root of fixing this lumpen elements of society. Unless you can do it and I believe if we can fix you know Punjab which has which had terrorists and there are some terrorists in Bengal. If we can fix UPI which was packed with mafia and gundas and there are many of those in Bengal there is no reason why Bengal cannot be fixed. Think about it. I mean now as you know videos are coming on local TMC offices, cabinets are being opened and 18 swords and 23 swords are coming out. What on earth are we do are they doing in some cabinet? If if we go to a local political office in Delhi will we get 20 swords? No. But it exists in Bengal. So this has to end this tyranny and this fear of violence. This has to end. And there is only one way to fix it which is very strict security action. I think the BJP at the moment in Bengal is doing the right thing because see what is being tried at the moment by killing Shuhindu's aid is just this there is a instigation of a massive riot. If it breaks out into this massive riot then everybody will say oh look look whatever. I think the BJP is being very wise by saying no we will do nothing until we come to power formally and a chief minister is established then get the full force of the law at every step all of this can be fixed Yogi Aditanat fixed it there is a model in front of us in Punjab terrorism was fixed in Bombay the mafia was back was broken we have lots of examples Bengal can be fixed it can be cleaned there are natural you know in in in India's foreign policy the actist policy we are anyway building a maritime vision right if the Anaman nikobar really gets built there's so much that can happen in Bengal so I am very optimistic about Bengal's future but the 2D formula must be applied danda and development >> well I think that is definitely going to be either my headline or that you know there danda and development that is what Bengal needs actually now I'm going to go for the last question to all of you uh I Yes. The thing is when uh looking in the future, how long do you think the BJP will be able to bring things back on track? How long will they take if at all?

[00:33:36]>> The demand of the people is huge is huge and they are looking for a huge development in the state as Hill has also said. But I think yes Bengal should be the gateway of Southeast Asia.

[00:33:51]>> Absolutely.

[00:33:52]>> That is the first thing. So accordingly you can develop your infrastructure. So once this infrastructure is in place, automatic investment will come. People will say that from here we can export many places to the world. Secondly, I think it's one second thing has to be given importance. there is a labor intensive industry because most of the labors who go out outside Bengal only because of their livelihood. Now I don't understand that why they can't build a jeweler cluster in Bengal. Most of the best jewelry worker are working here in Karolbach or in Surat or in Gujarat. It could have been a huge enforment export opportunity and that gives you a lot of money and revenue for the state. So bing one another another thing is a very I think there is a for a you know test for a symbolic gesture the government should build something in singur that will give a huge goodwill among the people that this will show the BJP's intention to develop the state something whatever I'm not saying automo whatever is possible a big manufacturing industry labor with the ancillary part with it like as it was planned by you know unfortunately they could not do it. Secondly, you know in Bengal the land is fragmented. No, in Hana you can acquire thousand acre with two three farmers. In Bengal not only the owners are not there but they are the cultivators who has a legal right over the land also depend on their landless laborers. They also depend on them. So that's why you have to think about cluster industries development in Bengal. Huge manufacturing industry perhaps would be difficult and huge manufacturing industry will not give you much employment other than cluster MSME development and also what I have said about this kind of cluster industries will give a huge revenue to the state like jewelry or any diamond cutting whatever they can bring diamond here they can cut. There are a good number of workers there. They went there and they were not let they not allowed to leave the state because they are the only expert on this on this job like leather industry.

[00:36:14]Leather industry is another industry which Bengal has a scope. So you can develop that you can develop that. So there is a way I think BJP has to start with for your headline that sing should be revived first.

[00:36:28]How long do you think BJP will need and take?

[00:36:32]>> I think they'll hit the ground running and uh you know the the >> what kind of stuff are you expecting to come in because this central government backing is also here in a big way.

[00:36:43]>> I think the first thing that will happen is infrastructure development in a big way. You know expansion of the railways, expansion of the metro, expansion of the road network. the typical BJP playbook.

[00:36:58]uh you know uh I think they will seal in fact they've begun to seal the border before the swearing in today's news says Amit Sha has already begun the 600 kilometers that is still not >> yeah and u I think as a as a gesture of of uh confidence the uniform civil code and more than the CIA NRC all that kind of thing because SIR has done a lot of work in that direction already.

[00:37:34]Uh I think we need to deport all the illegal Bangladeshies. A lot of them are walking out as we speak. But they need to be deported. If they if if it's going to cause a a flood of people, then put them in camps and then do it in gradual and in acceptable form along with Bangladesh. I think the Kolkata port is inadequate. I think we will need to expand the shipping industry. We've got garden reach of course but I think we need massive uh ship building industry um which can be done now. There's no more fear of unions and and work and these things absorb millions of people in you know uh small, medium, large industry simultaneously.

[00:38:30]Whatever is possible, whoever wants to come, when Reliance wants to come, Adani will be there first off building ports on the on the eastern seabboard. Uh closer to the ocean rather than up the river because there's dredging problems and the like.

[00:38:49]Um I think we ought to make clear that we're not going to give too much water to Bangladesh. The the Ganga water, the Tista water, these are all coming up for renewal. We must not make the Indus water treaty uh kind of mistakes yet again. Uh you know Ma used it as a political tool. I think the BJP is going to use everything with Bangladesh, with Pakistan, all China etc. as a economic tool which any case is part of the temperament of the BJP government everywhere. You know politics yes it plays its part but not for grandstanding.

[00:39:33]It plays its part in order to promote the national interest. And today there'll be no different. You know, under the TMC it was the the the country stopped at the borders. That won't do.

[00:39:49]There's tremendous natural resources.

[00:39:51]Coal for example.

[00:39:54]Um there is a lot of possibility of electricity generation of nuclear power.

[00:40:01]All of this has to be established at a fantastic pace. the small nuclear reactors that we are now making in India >> elected haripura where because of ma's objection they had to stop this project >> yeah well now objections are off the off the map and it isn't a step at a time and gradualism it has to be on war footing so that five years from now when the next election comes there is no question BJP will be elected together >> Hindul are you hopeful about the the state's future and same question >> I'm extremely hopeful please think about this there were already existing large companies in Kolkata rubber for instance you will remember a brand from our childhood called duckback >> duckback yes >> right Dunlop right all of this was there in Kolkata there used to be major FMCG companies in Kolkata There used to be chemical companies in Kolkata, >> Kolkata chemical, Bengal chemical.

[00:41:10]>> All of this disappeared.

[00:41:12]They it was they were made to disappear.

[00:41:15]They were forcefully shut down by the CPM and then of course under TMC. All of this can be revived. Look at for instance even tourism which has become a big draw in Bengal. Only tourism alone can give so many jobs. If you build the infrastructure, you know, tourists cannot like I mean they're not going to paraglide into a place. They need the infrastructure, allied infrastructure.

[00:41:39]If you build that with a lot of effort, you will see Bengal is already leapfrogging in tourism. It could well become the number one destination for tourists in India. In fact, foreign tourists might come in huge numbers because there's dajiling, there's this whole tea gardens experience, there's of course durapuja, all kinds of things, right?

[00:42:00]The problem is that and let's be honest, let's be absolutely candid. Mtab Banerji was trying to do some of these things >> only tourism >> in tourism especially in tourism but unless you build an entire ecosystem for entrepreneurship. Why is there is no logical reason why people must leave Kolkata and go and work in it in Bangalore. If I can interrupt for two seconds, >> are we taking into account the problem of trade unionism in Bengal which Bengal has got a horrendous history >> and it only needs a strong hand to crush it. It only requires and in fact Muta has crushed a lot of trade unions. The old CPM trade unions don't exist. Of course, she triggered a whole new range of other kinds of problems. That's a different story. But those can be sorted. The fact is Mohammad was trying to do a little bit in tourism but a lot of this look at the waterways that Bengal has right Assam has now is trying to do waterways tourism and other things with his tea gardens and so on and so forth. Why doesn't Bengal why do all it people everybody my parents have a home in Salt Lake every person when I meet there where are your children my the old kakus and the kakimas uncles and aunties they're all in Bangalore why are they in Bangalore why aren't they in Salt Lake why why aren't you building Salt Lake and Rajarat into this massive IT hub as Gautam Babu was saying and there was no point in having only a small sector 5 why aren't you doing a much bigger one so there are endless opportunities Look at textiles, right? Why is it for all the design elements that Kolkata has, the good textile quality that Bengal has, why aren't big hubs for, you know, uh, retail textiles and retail clothing coming up in Kolkata? All of this can be done. There has been a missing political will and a lumpen proletariat encouraged to stop all this. This only needs look many of you even in this panel many of you live in Nida right which is in Uttar Pradesh. If UP can be fixed today when I talk to people about UP, they say, "Oh, defense corridor."

[00:44:13]Can you think about this? Think about it. All of you are veterans. In our lifetime, was this the story about UP?

[00:44:20]Did anybody say defense?

[00:44:26]It was always about some gang war, this that all kinds of nonsense, right? The story has changed. The story can change in Bengal. I'm extremely hopeful. I am a Bengal positive person.

[00:44:39]I and why look I mean I know my parents were determined Jita the day I passed out of school my mother was telling apart from doing well in board exams the other thing I heard for two years in my house was my father had to leave Kolkata. Why? Because my mother would not send her only child towards college in Kolkata because she felt it would ruin my career.

[00:45:00]Why? Why do we have this? Even today I hear my own you know cousins and stuff they say oh you know in Bengali why Delhi parents don't always think my kid has to go otherwise they'll be destroyed in Delhi Bangalore parents don't think unless my child goes away from Bangalore their child career will be destroyed only Kolkata parents feel this and Bengal parents feel this education let's this is my last point right education Kolkata and Bengal had a huge history of some of the finest education not only in India in the world we have systematically destroyed every institution why can't education we are again and I work in a private university at the moment we are again at an age of education higher education booming in India it's starting to happen why can't this happen in Bengal there is no logic there are trained people love education people want to study why can't you build great universities in in Kolkata So all of this can happen. It only requires political will. And I am a firm believer. I believe Bengal can do it. In our lifetime, it should again become a center point of Asian development and Asian commerce and Asian trade. It must attain and fulfill that destiny.

[00:46:20]>> Absolutely viewers. That is what you know it is good to see that we Bengali sitting outside Bengal so far away 1500 kilometers away. We are also positive about Bengal and the fact is that you know it is I find it incredible that just by one change of government you know the whole mood has changed. It is for Bengales all over the world. The mood has changed and that is something you know the mindset has changed that you know it is possible that that we can look forward to a future which is positive you know because you see 50 years it has taken for Bengal to return to the mainstream 77 post 77 I would say so I think that is something let us hope >> just one second want to add that first shipping magnet was Daran Takur >> that's right >> and first industrial is Bengali was achar is your propul chand we want to bring back that glory >> this is an excellent point I want to say I love Robbitu Robin Takur he's amazing he's obviously you know a national treasure but Bengali must now on that pedestal side by side with Robinat Takur also put Darukan Takur we need the spirit not only of Robi Takur but also as Gautam Babu is saying of Darukanat >> yeah so development danda I'll put it in this DA development and dar >> and dar no no creativity and you know industry. Thank you viewers for watching and thank you gentlemen for being here. I think it was a great conversation and thank you again for >> never gave us diling tea which he will give his promise fulfilled >> even though never promised to fulfill her diling.

[00:48:10]>> I totally forgot. We will have some other time. Thank you viewers for watching.