The new eating disorder secretly destroying men

[00:00:00]There's a certain sort of perversity for me around fitness I feel like I can't undo now and I was blind to when I was younger and that was a sort of freedom that I wasn't aware of.

[00:00:12]>> Controversial subjects with the facts can be tense but we are science here.

[00:00:18]Today we are talking about bigorexia, also known as bigarexia nervosa, which is a growing mental health disorder amongst men characterized by people who feel like their body is not muscular and lean enough. We're going to talk about like the studies, how it relates to culture now, and how it's really impacting a lot of people, including women across the world, and the and the link to social media use, >> which might seem obvious, but it's like crazy when you start to look at the stats and the science. It's freaking Also like we'll talk about our personal experience obviously like obviously everyone has some level of relation to maybe not everyone but I think me personally has a relation to body dysmorphia and like your relationship to how you view your physical appearance.

[00:01:03]>> Yeah.

[00:01:04]>> Um which obviously this is interlink to and I think all it's important to flag like we're going to be talking about like body image and those kind of things.

[00:01:10]>> Eating disorders. We're going to be talking about disordered eating and actually it's a fascinating >> thing to talk about now in the sort of fitspiration like online food content and how much it actually kind of gets away with creating like disordered eating in people without you actually thinking it's like a problem. Yeah, it's so pervasive and like >> it's interesting because >> for a lot of people on the surface it's easy to look at like >> cuz I think like this used to be called reverse anorexia nervosa.

[00:01:43]>> Yes. Well, yeah, there's I'm going to get into the details, but yes, but that's not bigexia. That's muscle dysphoria, I think.

[00:01:49]>> Okay. But I think they are obviously linked like the desire to like not think either want really big muscles or never think that you're getting there. Yeah, >> but I bring that up because I think like collectively as a society, people deemed that it's easier to recognize like uh somebody not eating enough food and like having anorexia >> interesting >> as an issue. But I feel like we are in this weird hybrid zone of thinking like all fitness is healthy.

[00:02:18]>> Yes. and all. And I'm not trying to like also dismiss that being active and moving and walking and eating well, like these are all great things, but I think that's where like the line gets blurred.

[00:02:26]And as a result, so much social media, including my own, like we're so influenced by just seeing stuff about working out, bodies, eating right, sleeping right, like all the things that like are good for you. And so much research shows that, >> but there is not enough conversation about how it can lead to disorders.

[00:02:42]That's part of what today is about cuz it's just like a pet peeve I've had with like the way that culture and social media has impacted us. So there's something a new phenomenon called orthorexia nervosa which is the term for an eating disorder where you're obsessed with only eating foods that are perceived as healthy or organic or pure.

[00:02:59]>> So I think that's interesting. We'll get to that later but that is like a term for like essentially what social media tells you, >> right? like something that is ostensibly healthy, but then you're like as when do these things become quote unquote disordered? And I think it'll be interesting to talk about like obviously we're not medical professionals and we're not we're just like highlighting some of the research that's out there.

[00:03:19]>> A lot of research >> there is a distinction at least that I had come across around like when something is like a clinical issue, right? like if somebody has an eating disorder versus if something is subclinical >> and even below that if you're just like a human being exposed to social and cultural norms that do still impact you but maybe not to a degree that have like extremely negative consequences. But I think it's important to talk about this because it's something that like anecdatally anecdotally I'm perceiving in >> people young people and a lot of this information is about 18 to 24 year olds and how challenging it is with social media >> how hard it is to not have disordered eating. Whereas when we were growing up there was a lot of obviously issues. I'm not saying that there weren't but like in high school like I didn't know we had a gym. Like I literally like I remember on the like last semester of school I was like there's a gym there >> in like grade 12.

[00:04:14]>> Yeah. And it was like I I love gym class. I loved being active. I ran I remember running to confessions one.

[00:04:20]Here we are with confessions too. Like >> Oh, I was like you went to confession 2.

[00:04:23]I was in a Catholic school.

[00:04:25]>> No, but I mean Yeah. Like I was like >> a lot of confession.

[00:04:27]>> Yeah. It wasn't like you confessional.

[00:04:29]It was quite opposite. It was my coming out album. But I was just saying like it wasn't it was I was still like loved being active, but I just feel so grateful for my high school time not being influenced in that way. And I just think today we're going to be talking about how that influence is really hurting people. So okay, bigexia nervosa is considered an eating disorder and it is growing amongst men. In a study from 1990 until 2024, they found that eating disorders in bigetsia and nervosa is growing faster than eating disorders in women. Wow. In in the last four years, it's been skyrocketing. So until 2024, so from 2020 to 2024, >> bigorexia nervosa, this obsession with becoming muscular and lean was skyrocketing in men. Women still have more eating disorders than men, but men are starting to catch up, which is so fascinating. So it's like >> this is what we're going to be talking a lot about today. I mean obviously >> you can see it as just like a person in at least like the culture we come from like I see so many more well particularly gay men obviously like bodies and fitness have always been like a healthy and toxic part of the gay community but I actually think just like culturally seeing in movies and we talked about this before like celebrity culture and how much more and more like celebrities are just jacked and ripped and and now with social media everyone it's like it's impossible to avoid void that the expectations and perceptions around what a like normal body average person who works out body is like the way people pose like >> it's insane >> and there is a obviously subtle backlash to that. Some people come out and say like I've been working out for 15 years and I have like this is my body and it's not that crazy. It's not like I'm ripped.

[00:06:15]>> Yeah. But everyone's like swipe past that and they're just like like boring like whoa Wolverine. But it's obviously great to quantify it in studies and know that like as much as >> the shit's real.

[00:06:27]>> Like sometimes you hear the conversation around like >> this is the kind of like men's health stuff we should actually focus on cuz it is real and not as an opposition to like >> any issues that females face or you know what I mean? Like sometimes like men's rights issues like are always just in opposition to women. But this is like no this is a real thing. Let's focus on it.

[00:06:48]like we're all impacted by our society and what it demands that we >> and the research that I explain coming up will make you feel quite vulnerable for people suffering from this. So it's like I'll explain why this might happen but some bigexia nervosa or being obsessed with becoming muscular and lean. Some of the symptoms that come along with this definition are spending excessive hours in the gym, extreme weightlifting routines, spending money on supplements, excessive supplement intake, anabolic steroids, and unregulated peptides are like immediately a flag for a doctor to think that you might actually have this. and also wearing baggy clothing and not going to events or social settings where your body might be perceived, >> which is really interesting cuz a lot of these people will have quite jacked muscular lean bodies. But part of the dysmorphia is just feeling like they're not ready for that yet. And I've like I have noticed some of the biggest guys at the gym with those huge like sweatpant outfits.

[00:07:50]>> Mhm.

[00:07:51]>> And I'm just all of a sudden when I started doing this was like wow like do you like not to put this on them that's not fair.

[00:07:56]But there's something about that type of outfit that I find so fascinating. And I usually see it on quite huge men.

[00:08:02]>> And I'm like I always thought they just like couldn't buy a shirt cuz it was like so big that it would like break it.

[00:08:06]But I'm like hiding your body is a part of it. I thought that was fascinating. I didn't know that.

[00:08:11]>> Well, don't you feel like >> not not related to covering up, but like this >> with our like literal arms >> literally. But I think obviously both of us in our like 30s decided like we're going to start actually exercising more now than we like I agree going back to your point when I was young in high school in university I did not think and this is a privilege as like a person who didn't have like weight issues or anything like that but I did not think about my body like that. Of course, I thought about if I was attractive to other people and like but it it wasn't expressed through feeling like I needed like a fit body to feel that way. It was more like, oh, am I cute? Do I dress cute? Like, is my hair clean? Like kind of >> I was like, am I emo? I was like, you better think I'm emo cuz I'm emo over here.

[00:08:59]>> Got the bracelet with the little uh what do you call the little studs on them?

[00:09:02]>> Yeah. Like, does that girl/ guy think I'm tortured? Cuz that's a check. Like, yeah. No, I was also the concept of protein. When I was 17, 18, I don't know what the [ __ ] protein was except for my biochemical classes. Like, >> yeah, we knew the science, but nobody was talking about like of course people were like, you knew to have a healthy balanced meal like you would have protein as part of it, but not as a quantitative number at all.

[00:09:24]>> No. And nothing to do again with working out. I love gym class. I loved wrestling other men in the wrestling unit. And I would just go home and eat what was served. And like I would never think about the nutritional value the way people are now because of social media.

[00:09:41]>> Yeah. And I want to say like that has happened to me as well. Like >> and and my farts are for the better and for the worse. Like we know.

[00:09:50]>> Yeah. Sorry. I was like edit that out.

[00:09:52]>> The amount of times I'm like waking up in the middle of the night like from your fart. Not the sound, the smell.

[00:09:57]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:09:59]>> You need help.

[00:10:00]>> Big.

[00:10:02]No, but I just like as much as I'm happy, I do feel like I used to have so many back issues and I do feel like I as a now that I like work out more, I feel physically more energetic and there's lots of great things. Sometimes I do stop and think like I am so much more aware nervosa disorder. Think about that.

[00:10:23]>> So research has now found there's a direct correlation between social media use and bigorexia nervosa. So, like this obsession with your muscles and becoming lean, they have found that the frequency you're online, the amount that you're swiping, and how much you use Instagram and other apps, including Grinder, which we'll talk about later, increases your chance of having an eating disorder. So, I was like, that's crazy. Like, that information is coming in fast. Lots of recent research. Social media is a huge part of this for sure.

[00:10:51]>> That's like the scary part is so much of that's probably subconscious, right?

[00:10:55]like you're just quickly swiping going through stuff, but you're seeing that influence your perception of what is like the average reality versus like I know this is basic, but obviously before we had social media and like we just lived in societies without the internet, you're only seeing the people around you. Like if you go on if you live in a metropolitan area and you go on a bus or you go on the subway, you're going to see a lot of normal looking bodies all over the spectrum. Yes. You go to the gym, you might see one jacked guy, but like even at the gym, I'm not like, "Wow, everyone is jacked here."

[00:11:26]>> On social media, everyone is jacked.

[00:11:28]Yeah. And that is why everyone's becoming jacked cuz it's becoming normalized through these platforms. A lot of these studies talk about how these platforms work. Social media makes you obsessed with muscles and protein and becoming lean cuz they have realized that if that is something that you watch more, you become interested in, they feed it to you more, and you end up seeing these unbelievable bodies whether you're a man or a woman. And it's forcing people into higher and higher rates of eating disorders and bigorexia nervosa. So it's like the actual science and data is coming in saying it is unabashedly correlated to social media use.

[00:12:01]>> I mean after episode on brain rot you're just like can it get any worse? Like even outside of just like this so short form video in social media like melting not literally melting your brain but if you've listened to that episode you know it's like attention span memory all these things are negatively impacted. On top of that, it's like here's all these social issues that >> now you're going to more like behaving disorder. So, one of the really important aspects of understanding like where you fall on a big nervosa or muscle dysphoria like uh disorder scale is all about whether you neglect important social, >> occupational or interpersonal responsibilities for the gym or eating.

[00:12:44]And I was like, this is a really interesting one. And I think when I think about myself and I think about our friends like gay guys, it's like there is people I know who will not go out for dinner.

[00:12:57]>> And like you know you're not even going to ask them because it's like not in their regimen. And like even someone like me, I'm always like, "Greg, never like I'll be like, "No, I don't really want to >> do that because I'm trying to be healthy right now." And I try and stop myself.

[00:13:13]Like no, you want to do that. Yeah, what are you living for kind of vibe you have to catch yourself from I have that happen all the time and that does really scare me and that's why like only once in my life have I actually calorie counted and I'm not judging anyone who does I know you have done that and it's not a judgment but for me it made me so hyper aware of everything I was eating and I was like this is going to become a disorder for me because like it was too I don't know I just it just like made me too aware And then I would be like at a restaurant like what how many calories are in this pink that >> Okay, I'm going to go ahead cuz this is interesting cuz it's related to the traits of people who are more likely to have these disorders and perfectionistic traits are a really big trigger of someone getting an eating disorder.

[00:13:59]>> Like if you are a perfectionist, you're it's correlated with being more likely to have an eating disorder.

[00:14:05]>> It's just making me realize you're smart as someone who has selfidentified as a perfectionist. Like calorie counting is not healthy for you.

[00:14:10]>> Yeah, it was too much like count. It is about the number, exact number versus like how you feel or enjoying your life.

[00:14:18]Like I understand why it's a useful tactic, especially if someone's trying to gain or lose weight. But to me, it just became like >> sometimes being aware is beautiful.

[00:14:27]That's how you like become an amazing artist. Like you are focused and you become more aware. If you love wine, you're like you're focused on wine.

[00:14:35]You're getting more and more.

[00:14:36]>> An insane jump. But yeah.

[00:14:38]>> No. And I'm just saying anything in life you spend your time on you become more aware of. Duh. Obviously.

[00:14:45]>> But I guess I'm just saying >> what are you saying?

[00:14:48]>> There's a certain sort of perversity for me around fitness that has I can't I feel like I can't undo now. And I was blind to when I was younger and that was a sort of freedom that I wasn't aware of. This is what's so fascinating is that it's so normalized. Like a big part of this podcast has become trying to debunk these like fit fluencer Andrew Huberman. I bring him up all the time because I'm like this [ __ ] is leading to disorders. And I'm sick of people not talking about it like that. Like the way that he has people on and they talk about, oh, this is my day. This is what I do in the morning. This is what I do for breakfast. What I do for lunch. Even like the happiness lab sometimes does these really regimented things. love the happiness and I don't want to put it in the same like vein as >> I'm more annoying and like I am and it's like because it's like it's following >> have the perfect life and >> yes and it's ignoring the like actual research about how this can become a disorder and ruin your life and I think what is making me sad is also understanding the people who are more vulnerable to this it's more likely the guy that's jacked in the gym was bullied like this the studies show if you have neglect or emotional trauma within your childhood into adolescence. That is what leads to bigexia and muscle dysphoria in the future. In fact, there's like really fascinating studies about having paternal negative uh attention towards you like from a father figure. It doesn't have to be your father. It can be from like men in your life degrading you leads to this shame that leads to you going to the gym like excessively and getting these disorders. These people are trying to fill in a shame that they have from their childhood, which I think from the science was good for me to remember cuz sometimes it's so easy to judge a huge jacked man as this like sort of like >> masculine ideal that is like scary or mean or negative. It's like they've likely suffered in their life and they're trying to fill something with >> or even vanity. It's like for the most part it's like in in the clinical versions of this it's a it's a mental disorder.

[00:16:51]>> Yeah, it is. It is a mental disorder.

[00:16:53]It's not like most of the people who are classified as this are not doing it cuz they want to look better better. It's cuz they feel inadequate. Like they need to keep trying to get just to a base point of feeling. You know, you're chasing like the forever going hit on a treadmill that never ends.

[00:17:08]>> Totally. And there's a lot of research about uh men who were elite athletes in their youth really struggling with muscle dysphoria throughout their life because they were taught, you know, their body, their fitness was like a huge part of their war.

[00:17:20]>> And I just was like, "Yeah, so many people I also see in the gym who maybe are struggling with this are people who likely when I talk to them sometimes they're like, "Oh yeah, I was a football player or I was almost a really like great hockey player." It's like, yeah, like a super active athletic kid who's like been probably told like if you just keep doing that, you can be great at that and you could make a profession out of it. And >> it is it's just like such a challenging space because it reminds me of it's like having success in any field, right? Like people are drawn towards doing things that make them feel like they're achieving. Like we're all trying to fill this never- ending hole or gap in ourselves of like needing to feel accomplished and have other people value us >> and it's hard to know when like is there a line where that's healthy, right? Like to be like interested in being productive and doing things that you're passionate about and like not you know like I feel better when I don't sit around doing nothing all day. I feel good if I'm like recording this podcast even like it's a thing we're doing. I feel great when I write an episode and make a video. But there's obviously a level where that becomes obsessive and it's not actually fulfilling you.

[00:18:25]>> Well, a lot of the definitions of this becoming a negative disorder are related to that. It's people who are objectively muscular and lean who feel like they're not muscular and lean enough and therefore cannot be happy with their bodies in the present. Like that is a huge part of it.

[00:18:43]>> Yeah. I guess that's the same with everything. It's like if you can't be happy in the moment or if it's like intrusive in your life, whether that's you chasing after money or success or a great body or it's becoming a problem, >> especially when you're spending so much time, money, energy on your fitness and you're still not feeling like it's where you want it to be. That's where a lot of like these clinical aspects come in cuz that's also like sad and tragic. And there are ways like therapy, a lot of other different ways. There's even some like medicines like that they've given to people like mental uh drugs to help people deal and realize no you are you might as well enjoy that you're like a you know what I mean you've worked really hard it's about the people who are always striving for more hiding their bodies thinking that they need more and judging other people who are not like them >> right >> which is also a really interesting part of it >> wait say that again judging other people >> judging other people who aren't following strict diets who are not going to the gym when you start >> knowing they're not happy then also looking at others and saying well you have even less like >> yes well I just thought that was really interesting like judging someone for not following a strict diet >> is a really interesting moment I think for everyone to check >> what do you have a disorder cuz like what at what point is that ever appropriate it's like not really >> no no like to think about what someone else eats and >> yeah like maybe your partner who you know is struggling with something that's completely different but just judging Having an intimate relationship with somebody and like caring about them is different than a random person or even a friend that you don't have the right to really >> decide for them anything without their requesting your help or or opinion.

[00:20:22]>> The reason that eating disorders are growing in men and through social media use has a lot to do with like comparisons and up and down thinking.

[00:20:29]And this was a crazy study on gay men.

[00:20:32]So it found Grinder causes eating disorders in gay men. They found that when gay men were more likely to use Grinder, there was a five-fold increase in having muscle dysphoria or bigorexia disorders. And they link it to something called up and down thinking, which is when you look on social media, for example, Grinder, at someone's like torso pick, and you're either thinking up, is my body better than this, or down, my body's worse than this.

[00:20:57]>> And the way that Grinder functions is a bunch of photos. You're constantly doing up and down thinking. And they think that the act of that is what is causing this like five-fold increase in eating disorders in gay men who use Grinder more. And it was only a 1.6 uh there was only a 1.6fold increase in Instagram for gay men. Like Instagram at least you're like getting a Rosalia concert video sometimes like Grinder is like >> solely about body >> body but also like sexual appeal where you fall like striving. I was like, "Holy shit." Up and down thinking is something to think about. It freaked me the [ __ ] out.

[00:21:34]>> It does scare me because it's like, >> well, I don't think I don't know. I definitely fall a little bit into this category. I don't like think I have bigaxia, but I definitely >> we both have our like arms crossed in this kind of like scared way.

[00:21:48]>> Like, why am I open? I know. I was like, I should have worn my baggy clothes.

[00:21:53]>> Kidding. No, that's also a symbol.

[00:21:55]>> No. Okay. Can I talk about myself for a little bit?

[00:21:58]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:59]>> Like I think I'm I definitely feel I'm in like a good place and I feel happy about my body and stuff, but then hearing these things and I had done some of the research as well. I'm trying to remember what there's a term, but there was something related to like mirror checking and I was like, I definitely do that, but doesn't everybody? But then you're talking about this up and down. I think like I have the kind of neurotic brain that I I try not to like and I don't like judge myself harshly but I still do feel like I'm aware.

[00:22:30]>> Wait, so what what do you what's mirror checking was in some of the studies and it was saying that people who are obsessed with looking in the mirror at the gym and just like comparing themselves.

[00:22:41]>> I found what I had written. This was like from like obviously we've there's many layers like I said clinical subclinical this was like for the average person this often expresses as social physique anxiety and body checking is a very common form of like looking at yourself in reflections or mirrors or windows and like just to like keep a track of like how am I looking from different perspectives and stuff >> and I do think that happens to me and that's like I going back to me like being so unaware of this when I was younger I ask myself is it just because I work out more now. So, I'm also like curious like what are the changes looking like?

[00:23:17]>> So, you mean like you look like in a random mirror or you just look in the mirror?

[00:23:21]>> Yeah. I'm more in the same way that like when I was younger I never really weighed myself, but now I'm like on a more regular basis like check in with my weight. It's not because I'm like there's not a specific number I'm trying to hit, but I'm just like aware of it.

[00:23:33]And now that I'm like working out, I'm like aware of the numbers that I can lift with a certain a bicep curl. And so in the same way, I'm also like, "Oh, do I look different?" And then I I'll see a picture of me from 5 years ago. I'm like, "Oh, I for sure like look different." But there's also these micro versions day on day that I sort of like am like, is this unhealthy?

[00:23:54]>> Well, I mean a lot of >> or is it just normal? Does everyone look at themselves in the mirror? I think just as someone who lives with you, I would say I don't think about you having the disorders that I'm talking about in these studies particularly because a lot of it has to do with neglecting your day-to-day life, your friends, your family, your job for the way that you eat and go to the gym. Like you don't do that. Also, a lot of it is about judgment. Like the orthorexia nervosa was about judging other people for eating things that are considered unhealthy or impure. Like I've never seen you say that. I for sure don't do I feel like I am an internal even as it related to perfectionism. We did an episode and there's like different kinds of perfectionism where you can put your perfectionism on other people. I don't have that near as strongly as my own internal perfectionism of like competing with myself.

[00:24:44]>> I think that you live in now the time of now. Lol. You do. I do too. And that's why I'm wanting to talk so much about this because I think as the studies show it is a direct correlation with social media. Like I think without social media we do not have these eating disorders in men and women. Without social media we don't have muscle dysphoria. I don't think to this obviously to the same degree.

[00:25:06]But this is the reason why this is what I think we are all address and not just accept and be like I'm actually going to go into it >> fully and become an fitness influencer and a science influencer who starts to tout the importance of all this like disordered eating and these supplements like supplements taking supplements is a huge part of like defining ing if you have this or not. And I'm like, that's literally like what AG1 is like sold to by science influencers. Like, >> it's actually [ __ ] Like, it's a waste of your money. And it's crazy that everyone's getting away with this [ __ ] >> I wonder like I lost my train of thought. What were we just talking about right before that before AG1?

[00:25:55]>> I was talking about like >> My brain just farted. Sorry.

[00:25:58]>> No, it's okay. I was talking I'm sorry that I was like, was I talking over you?

[00:26:03]>> No, no, no. Um I don't know. I was talking about like how you don't judge other people about what they're eating.

[00:26:09]Like >> I think I was okay. What I was going to talk about was it's just so hard because obviously like it comes from a grain of truth. Like and I'm saying a grain, right? Like obviously we know like from science like eating vegetables is good for you, having fiber is good for you, like getting some aerobic exercise is good for you, getting some muscle exercise is good for you. We can see like older people >> socializing is good for you%. I think that's like what it becomes and like maybe that is the best answer is it's like yes and there are other things that are also really good for you. Relaxing is good for you. Having a night with friends is good for you. Having a drink, sorry, I'm not saying having a drink you have to do, but it's like in one context it's like socializing with a drink with friends and letting go is like a form of stress. Yeah.

[00:26:55]>> So I think like the hardest part is when you get brought into this and I think everyone is brought into it on a certain level with social media. It's like, oh yeah, of course I want to be healthy.

[00:27:05]And like having gone through this experience of myself, I I'm much stronger than I used to be. I work out.

[00:27:10]I never worked out till I was like in my 30s. Um, now I'm like, I do feel more energetic. I do have less back problems.

[00:27:17]I do XYZ. I feel more confident about my body than >> And you probably need to check yourself to make sure you don't get an eating disorder.

[00:27:25]>> Yeah, it's true. And to be like, this cannot be the only priority. I guess that's like a nice view of like it can be a priority. And that's a good thing, but it's not valued as the most important thing. Like, if you're doing it as the most important thing, that doesn't mean other people need physical fitness to be their number one health thing. There's lots of ways to be healthy.

[00:27:46]>> We've been around a lot of people, I'm not going to name names, but as gay guys, who say, "Oh, that person wasn't interested in the gym, which was such a red flag, so I could never date them."

[00:27:56]It's like that has been said to me many times and I'm like I've never been more unattracted and freaked out by someone which is really judgmental cuz now I'm realizing they probably just have a body disorder >> so I should probably actually check that judgment you know like this person's interested in going out for dinner I as a fit person like I don't want to prioritize going out for dinner. It's like >> that's a crazy sentence that I had to hear. And it's like it's so interesting cuz like doing this research I'm like oh my god you're actually like confessing like disordered eating to me but I never thought of it in the moment. I just thought that's lame. I love going out for dinner and it feels like it feel it felt wrong. My instincts were like this is a weird thing to say.

[00:28:32]>> Yeah. It's just so hard cuz everyone has their own story and baggage and like exactly like in the way that they shouldn't be judging. We just like can't it really is about your own personal experience. Of course, it's like we hear over and over, balance is good, right?

[00:28:47]Like it's good to do things, >> but we're not hearing that that much in the world of f You're right.

[00:28:51]>> Fitness culture. I really don't think I'm saying like when you tell somebody that they should go out and eat more often, it's kind of like, well, I'm not saying that that's the right answer, >> right? Like maybe for some people it they I don't know. It's so hard when you're just like I can only really take this information to impress upon like how I want to live in my own life and >> choose for myself around like okay I value these >> 10 things as my main cores and I'm going to balance my energy between them without letting one run away. And I feel like I've learned that lesson over and over in my life around like chasing one big thing. You never can be satisfied through one big thing.

[00:29:32]>> Okay, you're right. You're being so kind. But I think what is freaking me out and why I'm like trying to be more intense about this is like about the culture of social media and what we have all just allowed to happen in front of our eyes. It's like fine, we can be about it's like but no, we're talking about science influencers who are created creating disordered eating.

[00:29:49]We're talking about fitness influencers who are making money off of people and creating disordered eating and controlling people to make money in a way that makes them feel bad about themselves, which makes them more money.

[00:30:00]Meta gets the money, >> Tik Tok gets the money, and fitness influencers get the money. And we're all just out here like literally freaking out and feeling bad about ourselves.

[00:30:08]>> And you're saying like, and we can objectively analyze data and say people are getting actually more anxious and more >> depressed, getting more disordered eating, having more body because of social media.

[00:30:19]>> And so we can't just say, "Oh, but they're doing something healthy and it's objectively always good." It's like, >> and I'm actually I'm actually, okay, now I'm just going to become Greg on side note. sick of this fat phobic ass culture. Like this GLP1 shit's freaking me the [ __ ] out. We'll do another episode on that. But like it's like literally we're just allowing these companies and social media and tech to control our brains in the most psychotic way to now to the point where we're just seeing these excessively thin celebrities who are like really unhealthy. GLP ones when done improperly are extremely unhealthy. the research is coming in and it's it's just happening so fast that it's making me like we have to stop and talk about the research about disordered eating coming from social media and from the normalization of these bodies and it's bad. It's freaking me out and so I don't want to be so like nice.

[00:31:07]>> No, you're right. You're right. You're right. I do think at its core like it comes from like a like eugenics. It's like around like being the perfect most optimized version of like the right form of human being and that there is like the right way to be and we all need to be like skinny and fit and beautiful and like >> and it's like it's a lie >> or or you're not or you don't have value. I think like this is the [ __ ] up thing about these kinds of things is like as soon as it solely ties up your value in something like the way you physically look that's just insane.

[00:31:40]>> And saying oh it's like oh it means you're I'm just trying to make sure people are healthy. It's like that's a [ __ ] lie. So there's actual science and there's acute obesity and there's clinical obesity. So people could have the same body mass index have the same atapost tissue fat on them and there are people who when you actually like do blood tests and study their heart health. They're 100% healthy. They like someone would be judging the way that they look but they could be healthier than you if you smoke cigarettes or you're doing peptides or you're you know excessively working out at the gym and have a body dysmorphia issue. Then there's clinical obesity and your doctor will do tests and they'll be like, "No, okay, you actually need to lose weight cuz this is impacting you." People can be quote unquote obese and still be very healthy. And that's the thing people lie to you about online. Like they're really not trying to talk about that. Pisses me off.

[00:32:27]>> You can't like you can't know how quote unquote healthy someone's microbiome is.

[00:32:32]You can't know how healthy their brain is. You can't know. But you can easily judge somebody based on the visual first impression. And so it's like it is like >> the lowest common denominator. And that's why it is sad that it's like people grip onto that and it's their only way to see reality because it's like such a simplified view of the world >> and it's not scientific and it's >> when you realize like health is so complicated. Like you have an entire freaking immune system that's like we barely understand >> or nervous system that's being impacted by social media making you >> as the term health is like >> means so much more than just the size of your body. And >> if you can only imagine also what telling someone the size of their body and how they have to have it in their control can do to their overall mental health and a society that judges you based off of that. We're all suffering for it. Like it's not just people who are overweight or underweight or don't have a lot of muscle suffering from it.

[00:33:33]That's why everyone's freaked out and trying to get more muscle or taking ompic to get skinnier. It's like we are all being damaged. It's like how people will say like the patriarchy hurts men just as much as women. It's like this idealized version of how a human should be actually [ __ ] with all of our brains. Totally.

[00:33:52]>> It's not healthy. And the studies also found if you use steroids or peptides, you're more likely to have disordered eating and muscle dysphoria. So that was a big like clinical like thing that was pulled from this research. It's like if you're doing steroids or you're doing unregulated peptides, then these doctors like we need to talk to you about >> a much bigger red flag for them to say like okay, we should talk about >> Yeah. And then thinking about health, it's like anabolic are not healthy.

[00:34:19]Unregulated peptides are not healthy potentially. So like these are risks, extreme risks people are taking for their body which is a really big indication of having bigexia nervosa this growing trend amongst men due to social media. So I think even that's an important thing to remember like >> if someone's taking steroids like you need to talk to someone about your mental health. That's kind of what they're saying. Yeah. Cuz that's not safe.

[00:34:45]>> Yeah. I think like what is also interesting to think about is how >> even just the idea of cutting and bulking like reading about the history how that what like if you're going back like 20 30 40 years ago like >> this is something that only the like bodybuilding community would have been doing cutting and bulking cutting and bulking right like >> like going through cycles sorry like getting really big in some cycles and then trying to drastically lose weight in others. Wait, you're saying cutting and bulking is something that people would have only done if they were bodybuilders and stuff.

[00:35:16]>> Yes. It came out of bodybuilding culture, right?

[00:35:18]>> And now people are doing it who aren't.

[00:35:19]>> And which is like cool because you're like you're like a professional athlete who's pushing your job in the way that like >> ballerinas [ __ ] up their toes. Or do they? I don't know. But it's like like artists and athletes are like pushing their bodies to the limits.

[00:35:32]>> Like in the ' 90s you'd be like, "Oh, there's that bodybuilder friend who's cutting and bulking. Of course, I'm not going to do that cuz I'm not a bodybuilder."

[00:35:37]>> Yeah. And you'd be like, "I guess I understand that they're taking steroids or what even if they're not." It's like just under they're trying to be an athlete. That's their job.

[00:35:46]>> Or they're trying to do something really specific, but now that's like >> uh I think there's a stat it says roughly 22% of young men who do not have an eating disorder diagnosis still engage in these kind of behaviors of cutting and bulking.

[00:35:59]>> And even I have been affected by that being like, oh, like I guess that's how you most optimize getting more muscles as you and and like of course some people are like, but that's just the science. It's like if you want to like gain muscle, you need to be smart about it. But it's just interesting to think about the social implication, how something that once was almost exclusive to >> what would have been like an athletic community of a very specific niche of bodybuilding >> has been now become just like a normal part of a gym culture for like an average person who's just trying to be quote unquote healthy.

[00:36:33]>> Athletes aren't optimizing for health.

[00:36:34]they're optimizing for sport or they're like, right? Like lots of athletes end up with like injuries and issues and get taken out for a career because they've like done such extreme things to their bodies. It makes sense for them when they're getting paid $50 million to play baseball and throw a ball like that fast. But >> you know what I'm saying? When your average person is like, are you really that doesn't make it healthy?

[00:36:56]>> No. Makes it potentially unhealthy.

[00:36:58]>> Yeah. Every gym should have like a mental health expert talking to people about eating disorders at this point.

[00:37:06]Like truly, like it's kind of interesting because gyms are just full of trainers who probably I hope would have some sort of training in trying to at least clinically potentially diagnose if someone they're training has an eating disorder. I don't know if that's necessarily the case.

[00:37:21]>> And I don't think that's like the gym's I mean if there's responsibility like it is how do you put that on people? I would say like the nice part about going to a gym is you realize that everyone is all over the place and that's really cool and it is like I don't it's not like when I I mostly see this >> right I see the ones who have bigexia nervosa at the gym and it's not everyone and it's the ones you don't know if they do or not. like based on these clinical sort of definitions they might but it's not everyone a lot in real life shows you like people are all over the map and I it really emphasizes like the internet's role in this >> and social media and specifically like short form video and how fast you go through that because yeah like I'm not at the gym going like wow everyone here has an eating disorder I think most people are like >> just getting some good exercise in lots of people are not transforming their bodies I've gone to the same gym now for a couple years and like lots of people kind of look the same and that's good.

[00:38:18]They're just like moving it.

[00:38:23]>> Yeah.

[00:38:24]>> The sad part too about the research is that people who have bigger nervosa or muscle dysphoria are also more impacted by social media's impact on their shame.

[00:38:34]Like essentially they're like triggers.

[00:38:37]It's like people who are already struggling with this are more impacted by these perfect bodies on social media making them feel even more shame and become even more obsessed with gaining muscle and losing fat. And it's just like frustrating cuz I'm like social media is just so bad for people's >> body dysmorphia health and comparing like people always talk about that like comparing your lives seeing everyone's highlight reels.

[00:39:00]>> Yeah, >> that's really what it is. And you're it is like you don't have the context too if somebody was literally just training in good letting dehydrated their body using steroids using peptides like but you're just seeing these things as your average baseline as if you're on the bus to school not to school but like the bus in the city and you're like everyone's body looks like this. And bigorexia is such an bigorexia is such an interesting word because so many men that you see now who are talking about fitness or health literally Andrew Humeman, Joe Rogan, they are huge. Like it's like >> they they look physically huge. Like they're it's like we are so >> conditioned to sort of see a really thin woman and think eating disorder. But now there's these like objectively huge men and I'm learning about bigexia and I'm like they're the version of that. Like it's it's like they like Joe Rogan does not look healthy. Joe Rogan looks like he probably suffers from bigger nervosa.

[00:39:58]A large part of this research shows that if you are trying to uphold masculine ideologies, you're more likely to suffer from these eating disorders. Like okay, that that's exactly the sort of cult of like Joe Rogan. And it just it's like I want people to more openly discuss the eating disorders seen in these men.

[00:40:17]>> Yeah.

[00:40:17]>> Because I just feel like that's not to shame them, but so we can have more of an understanding of what's actually happening so we can talk about how to be healthy and not just assume that's health.

[00:40:27]>> I think that's starting to happen. I think like it is the early days of that and there you know we are starting to have conversations around like men's mental health and physical health and what these kinds of beliefs and behaviors do to whether you're straight, gay or whatever. It's like we're all impacted by body image and what our expectations on oursel and other people are. So, I do think like like studies like these help to emphasize that. And I I feel like the conversation is starting to happen to a degree around like overoptimizing, being obsessed with body image.

[00:41:00]>> Really, I'm like I feel the opposite. I feel like it's just going down the tube.

[00:41:04]It's still going. It's not going to just disappear. Like that is always and forever going to be like we live in a capitalist society. It's always about getting more and having more. And like until that structure is deconstructed like I don't know that this is just going to disappear. But the more >> do you see the questioning? Like I don't >> I think so. I think >> where am I?

[00:41:25]>> I agree. There's still I just think like the productivity category is losing its edge. I'll say that.

[00:41:33]>> But that's not this this is like >> this fits into that to me. I'm I'm saying like as a broader cultural conversation, I agree there's a lot more like education and awareness that needs to be done around specifically like male obsession around like fitness and needing to feel adequate through like growing and being bigger. That is kind of niche, right? Like in my life, >> I don't know that many people that fit into that category. And in fact, I think people who are clinically diagnosed, at least when talking about young boys, it's only like it's 2.2% of young boys and 1.4% 24% of young girls who are clinically diagnosed with muscle dysphoria. So that's like a specific thing.

[00:42:07]>> Many more obviously it would be like subclinical. Um so >> I guess what I'm trying to say though is I feel a little bit of a cultural shift and a commentary on >> a lot of self-help in general >> and a lot of just like why are we optimizing more and more and more? We're all still just as unhappy. You >> So like where? Cuz like I'm like I love that [ __ ] and I'm like I just feel >> sadly also on social media.

[00:42:33]>> Okay. Okay.

[00:42:34]>> Which is probably not good.

[00:42:35]>> Okay. Well, it's like where else at this point is all everyone's talking about anything on. So, but you've seen that cuz >> I like you're right. I haven't like yet read a book about Yeah. Yeah. But seriously, it's like come on. Where are the books? Where are the books about Bigexia nervosa? Like let's go. Like we need those.

[00:42:51]>> Or like about the anti-optimization movement.

[00:42:53]>> Yeah.

[00:42:54]>> Like I do I don't maybe you're right. I guess >> there's good New Yorker research on it which has like led to a lot of the past videos and podcasts we've done. A lot of them were talking this is getting a little off topic but actually not because these longevity people who they're studying from Silicon Valley have disordered eating and the gym is a big part of their life an excessive part. And a lot of it, the way they were able to tear down what was happening to these people was when doctors were realizing how stressed they were.

[00:43:27]>> Was like a big takeaway. It was like you're doing all of these things and it's leading to this awareness that's stressing you out. They actually like everyone talks about how important sleep is. A lot of the people who they ended up >> the New Yorkers a lot of access was like they're not sleeping.

[00:43:43]>> Yeah. and they're also taking weird medications, GLP1s, lots of different things. It's really affecting their sleep and stress. And so that was like the main >> I guess to combat that type of thinking, you have to come at them with their thinking. And they're always going you need to have like low stress and lots of sleep.

[00:43:59]>> And so in the end, they were kind of like these people are not sleeping very much and they're extremely stressed. and their doctors are like, "You need to stop."

[00:44:06]>> It's like the treadmill of >> of growth or of like it never ends. Like this is all of life. And I I've Okay.

[00:44:16]Something I've kind of say to myself these days, and this relates both to fitness cuz I've asked myself these questions, but also to like success with business and like family and life and social. My new phrase to myself is if you think you're almost there, >> then you're there and you have to like really enjoy it. Of course, when you first start, so I've started saying like I feel like I'm almost near like my quote unquote ideal fitness goals >> and then I'm like then that means like I am there. Like I need to appreciate it now cuz probably in 20 years I'm going to look back and be like, "Oh my god, you were just so fit and you weren't appreciating that." That's so cool.

[00:44:53]>> And same with like if you are like almost near the amount of money you think you need, you're there. And or at least like it doesn't mean you can't continue. It just means you need to now focus on being able to enjoy it now.

[00:45:06]That's like the skill you need to hone is >> yes, I'll keep I'll keep going to I'm going to keep going to the gym. It makes me feel good. I'm going to keep working and all these things, but I now have to be feeling good about it today and not just be like when I finally hit that benchmark, I'll be better. So that's self-help book. Write your Mel Robbins.

[00:45:24]Let them What is it? You're almost there.

[00:45:27]>> What's the tagline?

[00:45:28]>> You're there.

[00:45:28]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:30]>> You're there.

[00:45:31]>> You're there.

[00:45:31]>> You're there.

[00:45:32]>> Or almost there.

[00:45:33]>> Should I write a book called You're There.

[00:45:34]>> No. Literally, we were just talking about how like the self-help world is.

[00:45:38]>> Yes. But it's deconstructing the self-help world. And it's just saying you don't need anymore cuz >> I can there. I can see the future. And you're there could fly off the shelves and then all of a sudden you will just find yourself amongst them. You're going to be like after after writing you're there that the sales came in and I thought to myself it's not enough and I was trying to say you're there. You're there. No, you're there. Like it works though. You're there.

[00:46:02]>> You're there.

[00:46:02]>> You're there.

[00:46:03]>> I think we're there. Um >> well you're there for You're right. The things that you think you're almost there with. That's why I'm like should the title be almost there? You're there cuz almost there is sounds >> but almost there sounds like you need to keep going. But no, but it's the key part of what you're saying because you can't just be like me and do something for an hour and be like, "Oh, wow. I'm done."

[00:46:22]>> Wait, what do you mean? What do you mean? What?

[00:46:24]>> Or sorry, like almost there is your point because you've spent a lot of time doing something. You feel like you're almost there.

[00:46:30]>> Less catchy because >> you're there sounds hokey >> cuz you're there is not giving. No, almost there. You're there is key because you're there will make people like me think that we're there but we're not there.

[00:46:44]Um, okay. I'm going to keep workshopping this. If you could let us know, okay, but but to understand >> what your perfect title for my next coming book is.

[00:46:53]>> No, I'm trying to say that to understand your actual point.

[00:46:56]>> Yeah.

[00:46:57]>> To go back is it is almost there. You're there.

[00:47:01]>> If you're almost there, you're there.

[00:47:03]>> That's what I'm trying to say. That's the point. That's the point.

[00:47:05]>> You can't give away. That's the whole answer. That's the whole book, by the way.

[00:47:08]>> I'm not just trying to like talk about that. Like, I'm not talking about the book anymore. I'm saying like >> that is the most important part.

[00:47:15]>> If you think you're almost there, you're there. Because again, as I said, >> yes. Because I've noticed in my own life, even when I start something new, of course, when you first start something like you have a lot of skills to gain. If you want to start learning the piano today, it's going to be really challenging. You have zero skills to start with and you're going to you're not you're not there.

[00:47:34]>> You're not going to feel like you're almost there.

[00:47:36]>> But there'll be a point where you're like, I'm almost there. I'll feel happy when I can just play that song.

[00:47:42]>> And that's when you have to go like, okay, I'm actually at the point where I need to be happy now. Yes, I can still aim to play that song, but I it's like >> I don't know. This is just like trying to have a presence of mind to be like, how do I enjoy everything I have now instead of always hoping that I'll enjoy something in the future? That's like really what it's trying to balance out.

[00:48:02]knowing that you can never, not never, but like at least for me, I've never been able to stop wanting to like improve in some way, right? Like push something I'm working on to the next layer. Like with music, I want to keep learning.

[00:48:14]>> And with science, even our channel and stuff, I want to keep learning and doing new videos, but it's like I have it's not worth it for me now if I can't while I'm doing it enjoy it.

[00:48:26]>> Yeah. I'm like, what is my disease?

[00:48:30]You were there a long time ago. No.

[00:48:33]>> No. Well, I'm like you're you're hyperproductive.

[00:48:37]>> Yeah, but it's like >> I don't know. You're >> So, when I think about body dysmorphia and like I love going to the gym >> and I love >> Yeah. Tell me about this. Here's my prompt because it's a question I wanted to ask. Um, if you take a day or two off the gym, does it make you anxious? Or like if you have not if you choose it, but if you're taken out for a week or two weeks or something like that? No, but I realize how this could this is so interesting cuz I'm like is this like disordered? I don't know. But like I realize how much >> that physical activity like makes me feel better in the day. So for example, like I was recently on a trip with our friends >> and uh we got to like this place and I was like, "Oh, like is there a gym?" And they were like, "No." And then when I went down to like this beach area, I was like, "Oh, this is so great. like I can swim lengths cuz I love to swim.

[00:49:31]>> So then in the morning I would just be like, "Okay guys, just so you know, like I'm going to try and swim back and forth like six times and next day eight times." And then it's like it's like >> they're not doing that. Like they might be like but then I'm like when I get out I'm like [ __ ] yeah. And then I'm like >> I think that's that sounds of like >> but it could be weird.

[00:49:49]>> It could be. But what I think is unique about you in these situations is that that activity is not geared towards changing your body. It's actually about using up energy and like feeling good about it.

[00:50:03]>> It's kind of about using up >> like going on a walk. Like I love going on walks and I agree. If I was if I'm at like a cottage for a weekend part a lot of times I'm like I feel too cooped up if I'm just sitting all weekend.

[00:50:14]>> It makes me feel good. Yeah. And there's something like it's like I'm trying to be like no like I I like do I sorry I'm not I'm trying to force myself to think I have a disorder but I'm just like I spend a lot of time at the gym. So when I was on this vacation and doing this I was kind of like is this crazy?

[00:50:33]>> But then I was like no well sorry there was a part of me that's also like >> the way you're talking is so funny.

[00:50:38]>> I'm obsessed with swimming and it's so rare that you can like kind of swim straight. Like I'm obsessed with swimming straight into like a horizon.

[00:50:47]Like I think that's so cool. Like I'm like that is like a crazy thing that >> obsessed with swimming straight.

[00:50:53]>> Well, okay. Like in a pool it's annoying. It's like there's the wall.

[00:50:56]There's the wall. Like I'm obsessed with going into an ocean and swimming straight.

[00:51:00]>> Like that's to the horizon.

[00:51:01]>> I hate that.

[00:51:02]>> Well, that can be quite scary. And obviously I'm going to stop at a certain point. This was so interesting cuz it was like a little cove thing that was like that's the perfect swim straight vibe cuz it's like contained and like it just >> there's something like that I'm like I'm not doing it I'm doing cuz I like literally feel like I'm so lucky and I get to swim in like in the ocean.

[00:51:21]>> I think of all people I know you are somebody who just like needs physical activity. Some some people don't. I'm not saying they don't need it, but like I think you actually to function properly. I've even even when we were younger and we weren't lifting weights, you were always doing activity.

[00:51:41]>> Yeah.

[00:51:41]>> And that didn't mean like you were you love dancing, you running, you like moving, playing sports. Like >> that's I think those are healthy things.

[00:51:48]And I think like that's why sports are so amazing because they're a way to be physically healthy that's actually socially healthy and is also like on so many other layers. It's not about transforming your body, which is why where I think the gym can >> well and then Okay, so I what I think is so disordered about the gym is like when I've had trainers, they're like, okay, so this is what you're going to eat.

[00:52:08]This is what you're going to track and this is what you're going to do.

[00:52:11]>> And then I try and do it and then I just end up texting them being like, I can't.

[00:52:14]But then I'm like, thank god I can cuz if I could then I'm >> like, how far? Like it just sort of like it's interesting. They're like, okay, so we have to do something different with you because you can't really diet. And I'm like, that's kind of crazy that you're telling me to diet.

[00:52:28]>> Like, it's kind of crazy. And I'm putting myself in those situations by paying someone for a trainer.

[00:52:33]>> That makes me feel a little like I want to talk to them about that and be like, >> "Yeah, >> you're lucky that I am actually like I can't do this." Cuz if I could, I'd be like, "Is that not just sorted?"

[00:52:42]>> Yeah. I mean, maybe they should have been asking about your personal goals first though. Like that when I used to have a trainer, that's how we started.

[00:52:49]It was like >> if my goal was to like my goal was never to lose weight. But we never talked about diet or it was actually never to gain weight either. It was just to like start to learn how to exercise >> and like hopefully improve my back and mobility and stuff that I think that's an important part of a healthy trainer is to say like we're we are focused on your goals and if your goal was to lose weight then I can help you with your diet. But if it's just to like be more physically active or build your muscles, those are different. I do think that social media has [ __ ] my brain and made me think that a specific type of body is normal and attainable, which is not agree.

[00:53:28]>> And therefore, I am going to the gym more because I'm just like, this is normal. Everyone's doing this. This is the type of body people have. So, I'm not crazy for going to the gym for an hour because >> that person's here for 2 hours and looks like that. And I think social media has [ __ ] up like what I think is a normal amount of physical activity is not.

[00:53:48]>> And I also think what I've always realized I've been lucky with is like when I look in the mirror I'm always like damn >> I'm like you look good. Like >> looks really good.

[00:53:59]>> But there's this time in like these photos when we were younger where objectively we are so ugly. Like >> we look better now than we used to.

[00:54:08]>> Okay. Okay. But this was an interesting time. Like it was like after university never eaten a vegetable in our lives.

[00:54:13]>> Yes. I've been eating like craft dinner only to cook. We were studying like crazy.

[00:54:18]>> Genuinely not taking care of our body.

[00:54:20]>> Then we like went on this insane trip and like we look so malnourished and sick. Like definitely like a doctor would be like doing my blood test and be like have you had a vegetable? And I'd be like I was I had like gang green. But I just remember even then being like damn you fine as [ __ ] Like it's like >> like I remember at the time like not being aware through I did there was no social media so I wasn't comparing myself to anyone. I was just like oh you're like a little twinky emo kid like >> like we were of course comparing ourselves to like a handful of people we knew in real life.

[00:54:52]>> But like not even I was just like this is who I am. I really thought my personality was the most important thing in the world and I'm like my personality is slaying right now. Like that's how I thought without social media. Now I'm like, social media is clearly not about personality cuz everyone who's an influencer has the worst personality unless you're like seemingly Britney Broki and you're like managed to be kind of cool maybe and that. But like for the most part, personality is not what social media is about. And I just think there's something there where >> not to say that we were ugly, but during that time >> I wasn't thinking about my physical appearance. I was like, "You look fine, but you're also a vibe. Like we're a vibe. Like we're graduating. Like we're young. like this is life.

[00:55:34]>> That's a really nice way to live and we should try and recapture that because >> not that I don't feel that I think like more than ever this has been like my sort of journey and being a little confused about like I I don't know if I should be feeling judgmental about this but I do feel better about myself now than I used to. Mhm.

[00:55:57]>> And but that's like like I said when I was really young I never thought about it but I feel more confident physically than ever before but that might be a a confluence of factors like it's not just because but it has happened at the same time as me also like now being more physically active than I used to be and I'm like I don't want to only think better of myself because I like feel look more fit now. I don't think that's the truth. I think over the last seven years I've worked a lot on like my mental health and therapy and totally totally changed my relationship to like money and success. So I think like a it's a lot of other things where I can finally look at myself in a mirror regardless of my body. But it's just like because it coincides sometimes I'm like am I finding myself more attractive because of that or is it because I finally have like inner confidence?

[00:56:44]>> That's interesting. I >> and I hope it's just cuz I have inner confidence. I think it's because you have inner confidence or at least I feel like you've >> I do I think that is the truth and I like feel very >> but I know what you mean. I also feel like I have inner confidence >> in my but but I I guess what I was trying to say is was that I always feel like I kind of had this like insane kind of like actually delusional inner confidence.

[00:57:05]>> You do. And it's like yeah it is like it is like okay whatever delusions like actually so jealous of delusional people and I am delusional >> but I yeah I know it's complicated. It's really complicated >> because I then start judging myself because I don't want to be somebody who values physical appearance above anything else.

[00:57:24]>> No you aren't you >> I know I'm not but I are not. We are in a culture of people who value physical appearance above above everything else vocally, confidently and it's insane.

[00:57:37]Like you are not because you're questioning that. We live in a really dark time where people actually unabashedly are like this is what matters and I'm not crazy for thinking this hence I have bigger hence all this >> and like if you're not doing this you are actually >> and you're probably have a social media addiction like to go with it like this is all linked and I just think that's what this episode's about. We'll always keep talking about this. It's about like the culture needs to shift. It has to.

[00:58:04]Or else people are just gonna get more and more sick, more and more big, more and more unhealthy, while also gaslighting everyone into thinking that they're healthy.

[00:58:11]>> It's [ __ ] crazy.

[00:58:13]>> Yeah. Well, >> anyways, >> should I make a video about this? Like, it's just it's hard.

[00:58:21]>> Yeah, I think it's definitely super interesting. Um, >> but it's sort of like a tough cell.

[00:58:26]>> No, we'll think about it.

[00:58:28]>> Yeah, we wouldn't know what it would like what I would like call it. My the my my belief now is just make if you find it interesting just make it.

[00:58:35]>> Yeah. Yeah. But it's like I find it interesting but it's like there's not that moment of like whoa. It's more like people who use social media have eating disorders. It's like that's kind of just like so. And I think a lot of people deep down like know that.

[00:58:46]>> Yeah. Maybe not the eating disorder, but a lot of people deep down are like I know that that social media is bad. Like even the brain stuff I think it's like it is ens you don't get the same thrill of watching a video to be like >> wo I never knew that. You're actually like I did kind of know that and now that I know it's for sure scientifically back I kind of feel sad about it and I addict unsubscribe.

[00:59:12]>> Yeah.

[00:59:13]>> Okay.

[00:59:14]>> Okay. Well, another one down.

[00:59:17]>> Oh my god.

[00:59:19]I don't know. Another one down.

[00:59:21]ASAPScience.com/hat.

[00:59:23]>> Send us your thoughts. Leave us your comments on YouTube on Spotify.

[00:59:27]>> Like this and share. [ __ ] We're so bad at this.

[00:59:30]>> No, >> I just listen to podcasts and it's like they start with that. It's like, okay, start with that.

[00:59:34]>> But like you got to get people to listen before you just tell people share.

[00:59:38]>> But if you love and appreciate our podcast, we are soful.

[00:59:41]>> Share this with people who also like big fitness, love big muscles. Also, like there's so many YouTube channels I watch where they have like built into the thing. It's like a little thing. It's like subscribe like and it's like subscribe.

[00:59:53]>> We can't do an animation. Is that what you mean?

[00:59:55]>> No, no. I'm saying like just the way that like influencers like think and work. I just sometimes I'm like, "Wow, >> we're never going to do that.

[01:00:04]>> We got one cam. We've got two mics."

[01:00:06]>> But even on science, I'm like, "No, it's like we can." So, it's like, >> "Well, by the time AI takes over everything, at least this will be charming." It's like, "Oh, yeah. We don't have a setup for >> it's just us guys and we're always going to be more on AI in the future.

[01:00:23]>> Okay. Boo.