Ramaphosa impeachment committee date set!

Added: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]Parliament's impeachment committee is finally and officially sitting on Monday. Parliament has forged ahead despite the president's threats of bringing an interdict which he hasn't yet brought. What does it mean in this momentous moment for South Africa? Let's find out.

[00:00:21]>> Spread the fire. Welcome back to SMWX.

[00:00:25]Please make sure you like, share, subscribe, and help us reach that next milestone of a massive half a million subscribers. Fam, it's so great to have you back on board. And today I want to talk about the massive breaking most important news in South Africa. The impeachment committee, the unprecedented, first time ever impeachment of a president is unfolding.

[00:00:51]at least the process is unfolding for the first time before our eyes and on Monday the impeachment committee officially sits. First I want to talk about why that's important given the president's threats to interdict this process. Then I want to talk about how parliament is moving ahead and why that is a good and commendable thing. Then we'll speak about what we can expect at the impeachment committee which commences next week. So, you may remember in a previous episode as I've been tracking this, the president promised that he was going to review this report which has triggered this impeachment committee and he was going to bring an interdict an interim interdict to try and stop the impeachment committee if they went ahead. Effectively, he threatened and said, "If you go ahead and start this process, I will go to court to try and stop you." Now, what did Parliament do?

[00:01:51]They called the president's bluff. They said, "We're going ahead. You go to court and try and stop us." And effectively, this is a really, really big move because it means that the president now is confronted with whether he will live up to the threat that he made in his court papers. In that review, he said he would be left with no choice but to interdict the impeachment committee if it continued its work. And so now it's continuing its work. Now some legal observers looking at the president's prospects for an interdict have said he has absolutely no chance of getting an interdict. I tend to agree with that. I think it would be impossible for the president to interdict parliament especially if he went to the high court. So the question is was the president bluffing knowing that he didn't have an interdict case and just threatening an interdict to try and get parliament to stop? Well, we'll soon find out because he has said he's going to bring an interdict. So now parliament has said put up or shut up.

[00:02:54]>> Yeah, I think it's commendable.

[00:02:57]Something in me also says what if toodiza's bluffing and there might be some sort of delay also coming up. um either that or and I mean we've spoken about the fact that they spoke about the rules of this committee and if they will be brought back to the assembly >> being a possible secondary delay >> but yeah I I I I wonder what the relationship is like >> and perhaps >> took unlike the other previous speakers who have been in parliament >> are choosing to be on the right side of of history in this case. Fully agreed and I'm really impressed with Togo Diza and Parliament so far. Look, ANC will always disappoint you. Rule of thumb, never invest hoaxes in an ANC leader because you will end up in tears. But Togo Diza looks like she's moving different this time. I mean, she started the impeachment committee after the Concord judgment. I'm sure there was a lot of pressure on her to delay. She announced the names and once you announce the names then the committee has to sit within 5 days and now we've got a date and the committee is sitting despite the president's threats. But I do tend to I also am a bit worried because like someone's going to betray us and disappoint us at some point. But but >> what worries me is that parliament has said they're still getting legal advice.

[00:04:22]>> I saw that.

[00:04:23]>> And so this committee is going ahead.

[00:04:25]But I suspect the legal advice will be given at the committee where they might then try to say we should postpone. So we shouldn't celebrate yet.

[00:04:34]>> But yeah, I think that might be what we can expect.

[00:04:36]>> I don't want to take away mom toodiza's flowers from her. But I also think and you mentioned it in an episode earlier this week. I think this might have also been a mistaken um rush or not rush but it might have been a mistake that there's no delay from her side >> cuz like you said as soon as she announced the names on Monday she had 5 days and this comet has to start and it's also no coincidence >> that the meeting is on the fifth day >> indeed >> that that after the names were announced. Maybe there's no delay because by mistake she announced the names not realizing that after you announce the names you've got 5 days and this comet from a sit >> and that's also the beauty of the concort judgment cuz it it demanded action. So as soon as you start the one process then the parliament rules mean you have to keep the ball rolling.

[00:05:22]>> But let's hope it's a it's a commendable >> uh uh move and she she did it in the interest of this process going on just like the concort. I mean she she did make some interesting statements in parliament where she said we mustn't allow other branches of government to encroach on our territory.

[00:05:39]>> Yeah.

[00:05:40]>> So hey look I've always said I will be the first to commend leaders ANC leaders when they do the right thing. I've commended the Minister of Electricity who's delivered. If parliament is truly going ahead with this despite the president's threats and they're going to forge ahead with this impeachment committee as I believe is the lawful and right thing to do then they have my full my full support.

[00:06:01]>> The stand the EFFs also come out and demanded that parliament opposes the president's review.

[00:06:07]>> Yeah. Which is a fair thing to do.

[00:06:10]Remember when busy Kaban was going through her impeachment and she tried to interdict. Parliament came out against her. They they they didn't just abide by the decision. They fully said we want to carry on the impeachment process. So >> yeah, >> why not now? I mean it's their report at the end of the day.

[00:06:27]>> Maybe that's the legal advice that she's in Parliament is trying to get.

[00:06:31]>> One other thing like these lawyers who advise Parliament, it's like they're a separate branch of government. Like I don't know like you have these major decisions to make. I feel like the MPs themselves should, you know, like make sure that they're getting the right and independent legal advice, maybe different forms because we can't just leave this to one SC somewhere. It's it's too important. So, I I hope that legal advice, you know, is not >> um or or comes through and is not seen as definitive, right? Because like I don't know what legal advice you need to follow a con court judgment like con court has given you the legal advice.

[00:07:10]>> You get advice but what like what do you like we don't know what the advice say that lawyers say to them oppose this thing.

[00:07:17]>> Yeah >> that's the right thing to do.

[00:07:18]>> Yeah >> obviously with the concord judgment >> um in view >> and she just decides or parliament just decides no we won't oppose it. So, it's also >> all we know is that she's getting advice and we'll never know or I don't know if she'll ever make public what the legal advice was versus what decision she and parliament took. So, >> we should actually demand that it's public cuz it has public consequences.

[00:07:42]>> Yeah.

[00:07:43]>> Yeah. So, now we've got this committee sitting on Monday and the order first order of business is the election of a chair. But before we get there, just to zoom in on this committee. 31 members, everyone from John Shaw to Glennice Braenbach, Julius MMA, Vu Zongula, Musi, Makash, Ghana, >> Fadil Adams, >> Fadil Adams. Like this committee is like nothing we have ever seen before. The ad hoc committee in Tumanazi even is going to pale in comparison to this. There has never been an impeachment committee in South Africa. Can you just imagine the visuals and the scenes? Oh, fam, by the way, we will be there to live stream. Do not worry and watch on the SMWX liveream. But like MPs convening to potentially impeach a president for the first time. It's going to be it's going to be the stuff of of of it's going to be biblical in in its proportions. And I think they they probably know that at the end of the day the impeachment vote might go >> the way the president and the NC wants it to go.

[00:08:53]>> But I think they they realize that this is that one moment if not the one last chance that they can get to >> really rise above board in terms of holding the president to account cuz I mean he's got what >> a year and a bit till it's the NC conference then another >> um two years which we don't even know he'll continue to serve once there's a new NC president. I think this might be the one last dance for many of these MPs.

[00:09:19]>> Indeed. Indeed. I I don't like I don't know where I think they're in the Good Hope Chamber. They're going to sit in that horseshoe formation and just like >> I think there going to be fireworks.

[00:09:31]>> Yeah, for sure.

[00:09:32]>> I doubt they'll just be like, "Hello, let's elect a chair. Let's go home."

[00:09:35]Like, >> for sure.

[00:09:37]>> Who knows what the EF the EFF always comes up with some interesting legal question.

[00:09:42]>> Yeah. MK is going to be you've got who has come from an impeachment himself but he's now sitting on the impeachment committee he's a judge as well so or was a judge so this is and then you've got the DA what posture are they going to take and I suspect what we're going to see at that committee is unless parliament raises it itself one of someone I I can just see the EFF but someone is going to say what are we doing about this review >> are Are we going or are we stopping? And we need to decide now.

[00:10:16]>> Uh I also I mean opposition parties like they must throw forward to the next meeting like when are we meeting?

[00:10:22]>> I was about to say more over that in the review.

[00:10:24]>> I think >> what I'm hoping to see from parties like the EFF, MK, even the DA and others >> is we need I mean yes, we can go there to elect the chair, but we need timelines.

[00:10:35]>> Yeah.

[00:10:35]>> When are we doing what? When are we meeting again?

[00:10:38]>> When are we starting to call witnesses?

[00:10:39]When are we finalizing terms of references?

[00:10:41]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:42]>> Um because as soon as there's a clear timeline and we have an idea of where we're headed, it becomes easier for us to also make sure that we keep our eye on the prize and this review thing as long as it happens. The president doesn't have an interdict. So as long as that takes, >> we are sure of where we're going as a as a as a as a committee. One further detail in the president's review application which means that this meeting is really serious for him is if you look at the bay litigation what the court said is not just that you can't interdict a committee right but even if you're reviewing so this final review >> you should await the outcome of this committee before you before you go ahead >> so once the committee starts there's a further legal obstacle which is why don't you just wait to see what the committee says and that makes eminent sense right because what if the committee acquits Ramopa >> why would he then review a report where he's subsequently been acquitted anyway >> so well what if he says well the whole basis of the committee and the process itself >> is based upon a report that's flawed which is what he's saying >> absolutely and then the the answer to my mind would be well it's just a preliminary finding the whole point of the committee is in a way to review the report >> and give you a chance to come and state your case Yeah.

[00:12:00]>> Give answers.

[00:12:01]>> So why not why not do it there? In fact, the president loves moot.

[00:12:07]>> His review will be moot once he can bring the challenges to his evidence at the committee because the committee is going to look at was the evidence right?

[00:12:14]Was it wrong? It's going to call witnesses to support it.

[00:12:19]>> Actually, what if the committee acquits the president?

[00:12:21]>> Which it well might. And then he'd be vindicated as well. So it wouldn't there would be no need for a review.

[00:12:27]>> Yeah. So yeah, and also now with the timelines, one other thing I noticed in the review application, it's not urgent.

[00:12:37]So the president is basically bringing it in the normal course. He's not saying it's urgent, which I find strange cuz he's like, I'm going to bring this expeditious thing, but then he doesn't bring his review urgently, but he says, I might bring an urgent interdict.

[00:12:49]Effectively, what that means that the review can run for quite a long time.

[00:12:52]>> Yeah. And we've seen Voy Zongula, one of the respondents, writing to the president and saying, "I want this to happen quickly." And he's like, "Yeah, I'll get back to you. I'm busy." So, I think what the president really wants to do is he wants to bring this non-urgent review which can then go on for possibly years while the committee is in obeyance and then it's like kicked basically indefinitely.

[00:13:18]>> Yeah.

[00:13:18]>> Which is really really concerning. I think people think this review is going to be like a quick thing and it's going to be done in in a matter of weeks. It's it's not.

[00:13:26]>> Yeah. And another question I remember asking at the beginning is I mean let's just say the president goes through well the committee produces a report >> and hypothetically he gets impeached.

[00:13:37]>> Yeah.

[00:13:37]>> And then the review process obviously running parallel to that >> he's successful and the and the report is set aside after he's impeached.

[00:13:45]>> Yeah.

[00:13:45]>> What then happens then? Again, I think the report would be moot because the committee would have actually looked into those Yeah. into those allegations.

[00:13:54]>> So, the finding and the final impeachment will not be based on the independent panel report, but rather the final impeachment committee.

[00:14:00]>> Exactly. Which which would have looked at the exact same evidence in way more detail.

[00:14:04]>> Okay. Fair.

[00:14:05]>> Yeah. So, and that's the thing that's why this thing progresses in stages.

[00:14:10]>> But what I find fascinating is the opposite. What if the impeachment committee, as I mentioned to Go Machik, what if they say he should be impeached?

[00:14:20]>> Because remember, you don't need a twothirds majority on the committee.

[00:14:23]>> Yeah.

[00:14:23]>> And the ANC is in the minority actually.

[00:14:26]>> So if all the opposition parties say he should be impeached, then parliament is going to get a report saying we recommend impeachment.

[00:14:34]>> And then what are they going to do?

[00:14:35]They're going to vote against that report, which is >> back to the same situation we were in before. And it might be irrational to get a report from a committee which says we've just looked for a year at the evidence and we say there should be an impeachment and then what you're going to vote against that because vibes.

[00:14:50]>> Yeah. And we actually don't even get told the reasons when they vote. It's just a matter. We obviously know it's based on your party but line.

[00:14:57]>> But party line.

[00:14:58]>> So yeah, it's it's going to be fascinating. Now of course one big question confronting the impeachment committee is who will be the chair? And surely, bro, surely these opposition parties are organized enough not to let the NC divide and rule them.

[00:15:14]>> You know, they've disappointed enough so many times that I >> I really would not be shocked if we if we go to bed on Monday and Soviet is the chair of this committee.

[00:15:23]>> Look, that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. By the way, Doris uh formerly Dakud Yeah. is chairperson uh of the presidency committee, I think.

[00:15:34]>> Okay.

[00:15:35]She's like the most senior MP on this.

[00:15:38]>> Yeah.

[00:15:38]>> She served in the infamous Ganzla committee which acquitted Zuma.

[00:15:44]>> Wow.

[00:15:45]>> In the ad hoc committee on Ganza.

[00:15:47]>> Yeah.

[00:15:47]>> So that does not bode well for someone who's like supposed to bring an independent mind to this.

[00:15:54]>> So I really worry about about that. Soviet is brilliant. He did well in the ad hoc.

[00:16:00]But there it wasn't a question of the ANC president. It was allegations of criminality.

[00:16:05]>> Exactly. Based on the way the ANC has acted in defense of their presidents throughout parliamentary history. We cannot risk having an ANC chair of this committee.

[00:16:13]>> Yeah. And it's about whether these opposition parties will rise up to >> it'll be very interesting also if the DA doesn't put up a nomination for chair who they support.

[00:16:24]>> Then we'll know >> or whether they'll abstain in the vote for the chair.

[00:16:27]>> This is really in the DA's hands. You know what? For once in parliament, these opposition parties, I don't care about the GNU for now. This is a serious impeachment. They must lock themselves in a room and figure out a candidate.

[00:16:41]>> Like, >> I think we're asking for too much.

[00:16:43]>> I don't care. It's like, but it's just you cannot squabble and then give this back to the ANC. Like, you just cannot hang your heads in shame. All of you, if you just meet and say, Musi Musi, we don't all love him, but he's he's somewhere solid. or Zongula or Quanga.

[00:17:02]>> Ooh, Zongula would be a interesting >> Zongula would be interesting. Yeah, >> we never thought of that. Wow. Yeah, >> but I see an ANC nomination. I see a DA nomination.

[00:17:11]>> Yeah. In which >> and I see another nomination that might come from the MKP, not necessarily being a member of the MKP and that also defeats the purpose cuz then we've got >> the votes split amongst three.

[00:17:21]>> Exactly. And MKP and EFF should be strategic. You want you want your MPs asking the questions. You don't want them to be the chair. You want Feed to ask questions. You want Milema to ask questions, not to sit above. You want someone from a smaller party to then chair so that the chair isn't biased. So that you get good questions asked. So >> don't you feel Soviet was able to do that? Well, >> yeah, he was. But I just don't trust >> because of his personality is not very >> Yeah.

[00:17:50]>> You know.

[00:17:51]>> Yeah.

[00:17:52]>> Okay.

[00:17:52]>> I'm just too scared. Like what happens when the party says to Soviet like you have to suppress this evidence or whatever like >> Yeah. No, no, sorry. I'm saying in terms of the fact that he was chair but able to ask questions.

[00:18:03]>> Yeah. Oh. Oh, you mean the chair? Yeah.

[00:18:05]Kind of. But but you still kind of, you know, above the fray in a way.

[00:18:09]>> Constrained a bit.

[00:18:10]>> Yeah. And and let's not forget the ad hoc committee let Ramapa off very lightly >> and a whole lot of other people.

[00:18:18]>> Yeah. So, we'd like to praise Soviet and he did a good job, but they didn't call the president when they should have.

[00:18:23]>> Yeah.

[00:18:24]>> And I was actually listening back to this ad hoc meeting like what happened to the president's written submissions that just went under the radar like it >> was it ever publicly?

[00:18:35]>> I don't think it was made public like and then now there all these recommendations and they basically like just accept the president's version.

[00:18:41]They're like, "Oh, Mun um he says Munu didn't consult him so he didn't consult him." like >> it's a bit dodgy. So they really did protect the president in the ad hoc as well.

[00:18:53]>> Yeah. But I think bottom line is going to be key how these opposition parties unite >> in terms of making sure that they elect a chair >> exactly >> that isn't a part of the party of the president who's possibly being impeached.

[00:19:06]>> And it really comes down to at some point the DA and MK and EFF are going to have to talk.

[00:19:14]>> I don't see it happening.

[00:19:16]>> Yeah. Well, then then they must just Yeah.

[00:19:19]>> Yeah. But it's going to be important, too. Yeah.

[00:19:21]>> I think the worst thing that can happen on Monday is that there's an ANC chair of this >> competition. Yeah. Know, then these opposition parties are just not worth they're not worth it to be honest. Just give if if voters give you this much power and then you just keep giving it back to the ANC, then what's the point of view honestly? Like, >> okay, so next week impeachment committee and Maglanga are back. Oh yes, those withdrawals have been tough, man.

[00:19:47]>> It's been a It's been a tough two weeks, South Africa. It's been a tough two weeks, but we'll we'll be there. Don't worry about that. I'll be right there to analyze the impeachment committee on Monday night. Keep it locked on SMWX.

[00:19:58]Like, share, subscribe, and we'll see you on the next one, fam. Have a great weekend. Monday is going to be lit.

[00:20:11]Yeah.

[00:20:13]Nah.

[00:20:18]Oh yeah.