The BEST LAWN in Britain?! - How Is It Done?

Añadido: 2026-05-23

[00:00:00]Right. So, welcome back to the Let's Talk Lawns podcast. I'm Ryan of the Novice Gardener YouTube channel. And again, I'm joined by David Hedgesawa of the Lawn Association, but also Ben Tilllet, who arguably probably runs or should I say maintains the UK's, if not probably one of the world's best lawns.

[00:00:21]if you've not been on his Instagram or YouTube, you should check it out because some of the stuff on there is truly phenomenal compared to what you'll probably see on the likes of my channel or any other kind of lawn content channel out there. So, I think Ben, if we just start with kind of how did you get into lawn care? Where did it all start the journey for you?

[00:00:43]>> That's quite a quite an introduction.

[00:00:45]Thank you. Um well no it was basically I I um I actually studied horiculture at college uh when I left school. So I it wasn't actually something I I sort of went into gardening more than lawn care.

[00:01:00]Um so I done done my um MVQ in horiculture and then I actually went into landscaping. Um I was doing I was landscaping for seven years which I loved. Um, and it wasn't until I moved next door to a golf course, a local golf course. Um, I had a friend who worked for a football club. I always wanted to get in at a local football club. Um, but that wasn't an option at the time. So, I actually went into, um, put my CV into a local golf club and got in there, um, worked my way up to be the assistant head there for eight years. So um that was sort of my route root into grass as such. Um but yeah and then uh like I say I worked there for 8 years and then um this job where I'm at now came up and haven't looked back since.

[00:01:54]So brilliant. Cuz I know it's interesting you say you kind of started with that I guess with the with the golf kind of background when it comes to grass. Am I right in thinking as well?

[00:02:04]You've you've done some work with um like kind of football turf as well as the golf stuff.

[00:02:11]>> Yes. Yeah. So I I did actually go um I I went to work for um lo my local football team um which I it's something that I've always wanted to do, something that I've always thought that that is the the job my my ideal job through supporting them as well. Um, but I think I went in there with my supporters head on rather than a a normal person's brain. Um, and it just didn't didn't sort of work out. It was a bit too repetitive. Um, my job now is there's so much to it. Um, so much scope to it. Um, but the the football side of things was just bit monotonous really.

[00:02:52]It was same same thing every single day pretty much.

[00:02:55]>> Why why did you leave the the golf industry as such, Ben? any particular reason or >> um that was more I didn't want to as such. It was more that um the the club I was at never really had a lot of money put into it. Um we ran a lot of old machinery, a lot of breakdowns that was just day in day out with me in the shed rather than out on the course. Uh then the um golf course was getting put up for sale and at the time I uh just started a young family. Um so I was it was there was a lot of talk about what if it was going to be sold for housing, if it was going to be kept as a golf club and obviously with a young child I didn't want to sort of take that risk.

[00:03:41]So I was I then sort of started looking elsewhere but like I say it was something that I didn't actually want to get out. I I enjoyed working on the golf course, but yeah. So, um I was sort of not not pushed pushed. My hand was pushed, but you know what I mean? It was sort of >> Yeah.

[00:03:56]>> Um >> Yeah.

[00:03:58]>> So, then um this job came up.

[00:04:02]>> And I say this job, you know, it's I think if people, you know, Instagram and all these wonderful pictures and everything don't really show quite what it is. Now, I' I've obviously had the privilege of coming along. Um, what what did when you went for the job interview? Um, and we'll explain a little bit or you can explain a little bit more about the site um in a minute, but what what did you first think when you walked through those doors or drove through those doors and saw what did you see? Put it that way. And what what the hell did you think when you were going for that job? See, see, it's it's it's a funny one that because I I always go back to this with if if anyone ever comes to the site and everybody is just literally like, "Wow."

[00:04:52]And that was sort of the the impression I had when I went there. You just went in, you're like, "Oh my god, what what is this place?" Um, but it's funny because being there now, whatever. I've been there six years. I don't find that anymore. I I I I look at it and I don't think it's any different to anywhere else. It's odd. I suppose it's something that you get used to, but majority of people that go there and as I was in them first weeks and when I went for the interview was, "Oh my god, what? This is amazing. It's sort of just massive scale of grass. The owner's mental grass. He just loves his grass." Um yeah, so it's it's hell of a place. It's it's quite funny because when I've seen some of your content online and I I look at the the lawns that I kind of I say manage the I cut at home, you know, I can set the oven on and by the time it's preheated cut all the lawns, you know what I mean? It's but I see the scope of what you're working with and how how incredible they look on such a mass scale. It's it's unlike really much else, isn't it?

[00:06:02]>> Yeah, that's that's that's the thing.

[00:06:03]It's um it's a bit like you start at one end of the site and work your way around all week and then Monday comes and you start again. It's >> just just out of curiosity, Ben, just to give the anyone listening um an idea, Ryan, how how big are your lawns that you have front front and back?

[00:06:23]>> Uh quite extensive. So the the front is about um between 15 and 20 >> square meters. back's about 25. Got a nice little 12 square meter one at the top which I love. When I bought the uh the cylinder mower and the comments sometimes I go back and laugh because so many people going posted stamplon and that's too big for that one. I used to laugh about getting a ride on and just doing one one spin.

[00:06:51]I'll just go once and it'll be done you know.

[00:06:54]>> So yes such a difference but again but tricky lawns in of themselves. They come with their own >> shades and all different things, but yeah.

[00:07:03]>> So, how how big are your entire lawns, Ben? Entire lawns.

[00:07:09]>> Uh, well, you got the internal lawns are 2 and a half thousand square meters.

[00:07:14]>> Yeah.

[00:07:15]>> And external is about 75,000 mters.

[00:07:20]>> Is that including a new bit that you've just done?

[00:07:23]>> That's including the new bit. Yeah. So when I when I originally went there that the the outside was 55,000 square meters and then last year we've then done the uh they've had a new lake built. Um and then we've renovated what used to be just a meadow up the top of the site. Um so yeah takes it in total to about 75,000 square meters of uh parklands which I cut to about 23 mm something.

[00:07:51]>> Right. Okay. striped and everything, isn't it?

[00:07:54]>> Yes.

[00:07:55]>> Now, I I had the privilege um of >> being called in by yourself. Um so, I know a lot of the history or I say that much, but I know I know a lot about it.

[00:08:10]Um what what got you because I think it's fair to say that they've changed over the last few years.

[00:08:19]>> Yeah. Um, and I'm not going to blow my trumpet because you're the one that does the work, you know. Um, I What made you call me in for a start? Um, you know, what did the owner suddenly sort of go, well, I'm actually not pleased with this. I want to make it better. What What sort of brought that bit on?

[00:08:38]>> Um, failure. I want to say failure. Um, no, it it wasn't so much. It was more more sort of me that pushed it really. It was it was um just things weren't going right. Um we we struggled with um sort of po a lot of it. Um and we had like I say when I when I first went there they they had been turfed um I don't know what the mix was in the t probably ry grass. Um and uh in about 2018 they had the house renovated and then they turfed it. But what happened was as well what I'm led to believe is the they got turfed and then the irrigation had a catastrophic failure and the whole lawn burnt off. Um so they then they then receded but something went wrong cuz when I got there the on the what I class as the main lawn so that's about 1500 square meters the bottom half towards the house was a total different color to the top half. Um, and they put it down to the fact that it wasn't the same seed. I don't know what the seed was.

[00:09:46]Um, anyway, the the owner wasn't happy with them. So, we re seeded. Did we recede? No, that was when the whole renovations. They put drainage in um new soil, etc. Um, and then we receded with pure fescue.

[00:10:04]The owner was very much like he wanted his fine grass. He wanted pure fescue which just didn't work for one reason or another. Um then they were receded again with a rye fescue.

[00:10:19]>> Um and it was just an ongoing thing of just failures, too much different products going on, etc., etc. >> Yeah.

[00:10:27]>> And then I I then come across you and the lawn association. Um and I thought, no, I'm I'm getting him involved. So I said to the owner, I'm going to drop you a message and it sort of went from there and then you came in and changed the whole scope and look where we are.

[00:10:44]>> Well, I mean I mean like I say I'm not blowing any trumpet because I think you know people need to realize that these are still not perfectly constructed lawns are they? you know the >> I mean you you'll laugh at this Ryan but he's got parklands >> and you have parklands and so rather than lawns he's got you know south park west park >> yeah etc etc it's like Jesus Christ so when I went there it was like yeah this is even this is I suppose I mean I go to some beautiful sites and some maintain similar areas to yours perhaps not as big as that um maybe slightly better in some cases, who knows? Um but it was like, well, this guy um seems to want cuz I think when I went there, it was like, yeah, I want the best of everything.

[00:11:38]>> I I don't care what it costs. I want the the dogs dudah of a lawn. And and it was quite a challenge because you if you remember, you had a lot of equipment.

[00:11:49]>> Yes. I mean, your equipment is you you've probably got more equipment than some golf courses.

[00:11:55]>> Yes. Yeah. I Well, to be fair, our local dealer who who comes in, who you you well know, um he he says on regular occasions that our setup and machinery is probably better than majority of golf courses that he goes to in our local area.

[00:12:12]>> Yeah.

[00:12:12]>> This is obviously just a domestic property we're talking about. So, it's crazy really. But I mean we I mean since you've come in we've obviously reviewed the machinery and I mean there was what did I have? I had three fairway mowers and three fairway mowers about five different cylinder mowers. There was all sorts there and that was just ridiculous.

[00:12:33]>> But he was also going out buying new mowers cuz he thought he got a good deal on one and you didn't need some as well.

[00:12:39]>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:12:41]>> So anyway, let's let's um quickly talk about the lawns themselves. Obviously when I came in you know it was I would call it a you know a salesman's lawn to a degree. you were obviously trying a lot of things that you were being advised by by salesmen and you know whatever we want to call those sort of um people selling products I suppose and you know they it it was it was sort of quite interesting to see that everything that had been thrown at it still wasn't working well I think anyone and certainly somebody like myself who who goes in to evaluate properties you kind of go, well, if it doesn't work, why why are we still doing it? And that goes, you know, on multiple sites. You know, you weren't the you weren't the only one privileged to that. Um, but I wanted to make it easier for you um and and more manageable. And I suppose I probably sounded like a salesman at the time, didn't I? Not the way. Not a lot of crap that is.

[00:13:49]>> Yeah. You know, it's um like I say, when you sort of well, you you you know yourself what what you should be putting onto a degree, but then you get the professionals into sort of what you think is what you need. But like I say, a lot of it was why am I got down to the thing of why am I actually putting this on? What is this doing for the grass?

[00:14:11]What is it? I mean, before you came in, there was no talk of soils or anything.

[00:14:16]It was just chuck this on. This will do.

[00:14:18]This will make it green. This will do this. This will do that. So, it was and I mean in the same sense when I was at the golf club, it was exactly the same there. It was like sometimes you you now look back and think, well, why did we put that on it? What is it doing for anything really? It's just >> we just buying it for the sake of it.

[00:14:38]>> Yeah. And I think that that's something that which I think for myself as well when David I got in touch with you kind of stumbled acron across the lawn association when you'd replied with quite a we've said in the past that critical comments and I usually don't reply to and it was one I did get back to and I think for me it was it was that asking that question that you just said then Ben of like why why are we doing it and I think this especially in I think of domestic law and care and the the information that's shared practices are just pass from person to person, but no one ever stops and says, "What is it actually doing to the plant or to we put it on and say it's doing this, but >> is is it doing what it's almost sold to do?" It's an interesting one.

[00:15:22]>> We get it with we get it with a lot of products. When you when you look at the um I mean prime time at the moment, I watched somebody doing a video the other day about leather jackets. He he he calls himself an expert. um I won't mention his name but um throwing tile pollings down and this that and the other and and the other thing that obviously a lot of people do with these crane flies is is use nemaote um but they're they're wasting their money with a lot of it you know when I'd like to see somebody who goes actually it did work um and it was worked every year and you think well if it's working every year then that's perhaps fine but maybe stop them coming in maybe look at different thing that that it's not going to cost you in the pocket. Seaweed's another prime example. You go where where do you see the benefit? Are you believing the benefit and not being accountable to it? If you're not seeing improvement in your soil with seaweed, why do it? Because one thing I will tell you with seaweed products is they have a little bit of liquid iron in them, generally speaking, which gives you instant greener. You know, the chilated iron. So when you put it down, it goes green and you go, "Wow, that's good."

[00:16:35]>> And you go, "Is it? Is it really?"

[00:16:39]>> Right. Just a quick one to thank Stigga, the sponsor of this week's Let's Talk Lawns podcast. They've got a range of different lawnmowers and garden tools to help you keep your lawn looking absolutely boss. So if you want to check out any of their products, then there'll be a link down in the description below.

[00:16:56]And yeah, nice one.

[00:16:59]Yeah, it's uh I think Ben going back to the uh the renovation kind of you when you went in and got in touch with David and am I right in thinking it's it's creeping bent now isn't it which you've you've got down what is the what difference have you se seen in that you know the the area you maintain compared to what it was compared to what it's become what you've made it >> well hang on let me let let me just let yeah the only reason I'm saying this because Ben remembers obviously this story when when I was doing my first consultation there, we we obviously were talking with Ben and and the owner and we we talked about, you know, the types of lawn he might like. And I mentioned a grass species called 007, which is a new the new creeping bent used on some of the best golf courses in the world. And as soon as he heard 007, Ben, if you remember, he went, >> "That's the one I want. That's what I'm having.

[00:17:58]>> Having a James Bond lawn, is it?

[00:18:00]>> Absolutely. Um, so yeah. So what what I mean it was to a lot of people I mean it's a learning curve because you think well I've heard of creeping bent you know got it Augusta they've got it at you know wonderful golf clubs all around the world. Um did it fill you with a bit of trepidation at the beginning as well?

[00:18:19]Yeah, I mean obviously I' I'd never you hear of it and you hear the stories of the thatch and all that and I sort of went away and I thought oh do we do not it's only at the end of the day it's only me running it doing it it's not I haven't got a team of people behind me it's it's scare it's scary times when you sort of go into things like that but it I mean like you said before it the whole lawn is we done it on a bit of a bodgege because it wasn't staying if If you remember, it was we'll we'll do this seed and we'll see how it comes, see if I like it, and then we'll rip up the whole lawn, put new drains in, do that, do that. But obviously, it came I seeded it and it was beautiful within what seven, eight weeks, wasn't it?

[00:19:03]>> Yeah, I think that's that's one of the important things cuz you know when we call it a bodgege and and we have called it a bodgege, the the concept at the beginning was your your owner was like, "Well, I want a new lawn. I want to reconstruct it after we, if you remember, we dug down and found the drains had been installed with terram around the outside so water couldn't get in.

[00:19:26]>> Yeah.

[00:19:26]>> Um, so and the soil was pretty awful and it used to I wouldn't say it flooded but it actually sort of ran the water ran down towards his patio, his amazing beautiful patio and flooded it when it rained, didn't it? So we kind of went, "Yeah, we think we need a proper construction, a USGA sand construction, like a golf green, you know, blah blah blah." Which he was quite sort of into, wasn't it?

[00:19:53]>> Yeah.

[00:19:53]>> And I think timings came in and for some reason they said, "Well, can't do it right now." I think he I don't know if it was a wedding or something, but it was like, "Yeah, can we do something temporarily?"

[00:20:04]And and it Yeah, it came up. And credit to you cuz you know you were working on a new grass species. Um you took the challenge of killing it off glyphosating uh scarifying the be Jesus out of it. We we punched a lot of hollow tine holes in there to help get some of the water moving during the winter, didn't we? Um say we so so much credit I get. Um >> but but ultimately, you know, it's a big risk. You know, you suddenly killing off your lawn and going, "Right, okay, now we are up creek without a paddle.

[00:20:44]If this doesn't work," and it looked terrible.

[00:20:46]>> Yeah.

[00:20:47]>> You know, I'm I'm on this.

[00:20:49]>> If you remember, we I I seeded it and then the the them first two weeks afterwards had terrible weather. The the temperatures dropped and we had terrible just gray skies. I didn't get a lot of germinations within sort of week, 10 days, two weeks. and I was messaged you saying this isn't this isn't doing this this isn't doing this then we figured out the the sort of water and um yeah went from there and then it just went like anything and uh yeah it didn't take long to fill in whatsoever and I thought blinking heck and now it's like a carpet it's lovely.

[00:21:23]>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's um obviously the photos that you put up and the videos you put up you know like I would say like a lot of things can be doctorred. Um you know we we see lawns all over the place across the internet um that are doctorred for various reasons. There's tons of hours I would think going to some people's in YouTube videos that that they won't show. Um, and a lot of people tend to think that's with yours. You kind of, you know, they go, "Well, I've read about it. I've read Creeping Bent, so I know that, you know, you've got to do this. You got to do this and this and this and this because Google says it." Um, were you shocked at the the level of maintenance? I mean, you do obviously a little bit more than most people. You certainly do a lot more than me, but were you shocked at the amount of or the lack of effort to get it as good as as you can now?

[00:22:26]>> Yeah, I mean, like you say, you sort of read up on people saying, "Oh, you you have to scarify the hell out of it every 30 seconds and things like that." And and you sort of sit there and you think, "Well, no, I I don't do that." It's and the amount of people I tell and they're, "Oh, no. I wouldn't touch creeping bent cuz you you're doing this, you're doing this, you're top dressing, you're vertic cutting. Well, I'm sitting here looking at it thinking, well, no, it looks lovely to me. It's it's no obviously, like you say, I'm maintaining them to well, almost golf green standard. It's so you you're always going to do a lot more than your normal back back garden lawn. Um, but I I don't think there's there much to keep on top of. Like I say, it's it's only me doing looking after 2 and a half thousand m of it. It's and I'm not rushed off my feet.

[00:23:20]I've still got time to do 75,000 mters of apartments and other bits and bobs.

[00:23:25]So, yeah, it's not a major task. It's it's easier than people think.

[00:23:31]>> And I I think as well you you you mentioned it. Um, Google talks about creeping bent on golf greens.

[00:23:39]>> Yeah.

[00:23:40]>> So, if you read up on it, it's it's, you know, I wouldn't say Augusta National talking about creeping bent and and how to maintain it, but it's golf courses all across the world who are rolling the ball at 2 millimeters of grass. So, the way you maintain that is completely different to to you. you're you're not although you could play croquet on it quite easily um you're not so that aspect means that you can then suddenly do things that don't pressurize grass so much you know cutting it 2 mm golf courses only do it for six days out of a year if they got a golf tournament >> yours you're able to give yours more length of grass because you don't need to roll the ball across it >> um which can produce a bit more thatch but Again, you're not feeding it for, you know, the BBC or Sky TV, you know, you're feeding it for a purpose. Um, have you ever I think we've talked about this one. Have you ever been tempted to have a go at creeping bent yourself?

[00:24:47]>> Um, well, on my lawns.

[00:24:49]>> Yeah.

[00:24:49]>> Yeah. Do you know what I have? And I think this was the first year where I thought, do I kill one of the lawns off in the back garden and go with it?

[00:24:57]I had this idea of having like um like a three holes, one at the top, one at the bottom, one at the front. So I have a little flag out at the front just to kind of take the mick in a sense. But >> I think since using Ben Fescue and realizing how obviously for my lawns and just coming home from work and cutting and feeding, but it's realizing how simple it is and how I don't really have to do a whole lot to it. That's made me think, well, do you know what? Let's try something like that because like I think what you've said already Ben there's a lot of stuff on the online where you look and you think well you got to scarify loads you've got to vert cut it every week you've got to do x y and zed it's going to get disease before it's even germinated or whatever the mad stupid things you you hear and I think when you you're hands on with it you think oh it's not as bad as what people assume there's a lot of kind of fearongering around it so I think >> that That that that was the the one of the biggest things when I went creeping bent was the amount of people online that said disease disease disease.

[00:26:01]>> I have had less disease on this lawn than any lawn I've ever laid my hands on of of thing and and golf club anything like that. So I don't I'm not sure where this disease thing comes in for for bent grass. It's funny because I think a lot a lot of people who I think say it >> don't have bent grass and a lot of the people who if I watch other content or if people comment on mine I I often would reply in the past and say oh do you have a bent grass lawn as if to say you know try it you know get it in your lawn have a go. People were telling me last year about how oh you shouldn't have gone with bent fescue there be disease and I thought my my lawn's been fine. Um, and I've I'm the one who's got it. So, it's it's a funny thing. It's wherever that's come from, whether it's probably been in a book somewhere, someone's read it and it's been like Chinese whispers passed through and now everybody's saying it, aren't they? It's a funny thing. But I I I definitely be tempted to to go for it because I look at like I mentioned to you earlier, Dave, with my small lawn in the back that like died off again almost completely over the winter because of the five months of shade. It's it isn't going to survive. and seeing the difference in just the past 3 months and not really doing a whole lot to it. It it looks phenomenal already now. And this is the time of year where a lot of content online, people are renovating.

[00:27:20]Loads of people just had a patch of soil now because it's the you know, I saw something the other day, someone had renovated late October and they've renovated again last week. I think I don't know how what you've been able to do in that time in between. And I think for me it's just been I've just cut it and fed it and and watched it get better without really doing anything even talking now it's kind of renovating itself. And I think that's what people don't realize really. It's probably one of the perfect grass types for the average homeowner because you you do less than you know causing your own problems. One of our our neighbors, they had I'm helping them sort their lawn the next couple of weeks and it's as thin as anything now and their little robots being cutting it and they say every year they buy a box of grass seeds from the garden center and chuck it down and it just all seems to die and it never comes back. I think it's a shame, but I guess you know um not designed to fail, but it's not what going to get people results. And I think it's I'd argue that there's other grass types that are far more difficult, I guess, than bent fescue. And I think you been saying how you've had like hard disease and you know, you're able to manage such a astronomical size of space solo kind of tells you that it does a lot of work.

[00:28:40]back grass, doesn't it? In a sense for you, too.

[00:28:44]>> Yeah, that's that's that's the thing.

[00:28:45]It's um like I say, I I'm sort of cutting two to three times a week. Um I mean that that I can get that done in a morning. Um and like I say, you vertic cutting four to six times a season, it's not it's not um a great deal. It's um it's fairly easy grass to keep to be fair. Unless, like I say, unless I'm making it look easy. I don't know.

[00:29:14]>> Oh, no. Guava, you go first.

[00:29:15]>> Well, the bit I was just going to point out and and most people don't think about this, but you know, they follow the trend is that bends on soil. Um, normally lawns that have creeping bent, for example, and highly managed lawns like that are on sand. And if you if you look at the logic right now, we'll have creeping bent in in small patches all across the country. You know, it exists out there, but we don't have patches of the countryside covered in disease. And that's because we've got the soil bacteria which fights disease on its own. So once you know if you look after a piece of grass really well the the bacteras in the soil will have the same sort of they'll have fighting bacteria in there that will balance it all out and stop your lawn from getting diseases. When you have sand, which a lot of people, you know, will follow a trend. I've got to top dress my lawn with sand. You're putting nothing in. It's inert. Sand's inert. It's got no goodness at all. So when you start going away from increasing bacterial levels and putting sand in there, you you decreasing the the amount of soil bacteria that can fight disease. So, one of the things that we've done with Ben is we brought in a um a bit like True Grass in a sense, but it's from the same company um company called Teriff who have got these products which basically sort of feed the bacteria again um slightly different way and and we'll have uh Teriff on one day to explain a bit more about that.

[00:30:55]But what we've done with with Ben is is throughout the grow the warm season when you can feed the bacteria um we've been adding bacteria levels to increase the disease resistance or the the soil resistance that you can actually increase. So and yours will be the same. You've got soil as well. So again, you know, if you were top dressing with sand again every year, twice a year like some some of these people do, that's the reason why bent fescue or creeping bent alone would uh get disease because you if you feed the soils, they tend a bit like the grasses, you know, these grasses will look after you just like the soils will look after you. So it's it again it was you know it's not something everybody knows about and it's something that you know I think Ben would be skeptic skeptic as as anybody else and go crush you can so you feed the soil to increase the disease resistance but but they told me I've just got to put a fungicide if I get the disease. So if you then start to feed back, you start going, "Chris, yeah, we're being sold the sale.

[00:32:14]>> Feed water, feed water, feed water, fungicide, feed water, feed water, fungicide." It's a bit like um Yeah, it's a bit like, you know, antibiotics or or something for, you know, paracetamol for a hangover. You go, "Yeah, but don't drink and you don't need the the drug then." Do you know what I mean? There's a little element of that. So do do you think I mean you've obviously done it for a few seasons now Ben in that respect and and you you I mean I haven't tried to bry you go oh yeah that's the reason you've definitely noticed less disease without a doubt have you in the last few years.

[00:32:51]>> Yeah definitely that's um like I say I was I was getting diseases left right and center whether it be um fusarium or all sorts. I was saying, "Oh my god, what's this this week?" But no, since since we've been using them products, it's I mean, don't get me wrong, we've we've had a couple of outbreaks of depending on weathers and temperatures and things like that, but um nothing major. It's um we've had we've had it years before where that's wiped out near enough the whole lawn. You think, "Oh my god." And then cuz the owner is then like, "What's happened to this lawn?"

[00:33:31]Um but no, since since we've been using these um it's defin definitely helped.

[00:33:37]Well, it's not a coincidence. It's >> Yeah.

[00:33:40]>> Yeah.

[00:33:41]>> Well, you can you're only as good as you know the the the the work that you do. I mean like like you say if you keep on using products and and and stuff and aren't accounting for it and saying well you know it just doesn't work. a bit like ry grass, you know, you kind of get the same thing with ry grass to a degree where you go it keeps dying off. Well, maybe use a grass that doesn't die off.

[00:34:04]You know, if you if you're putting seaweed down and not really seeing anything at all that's accountable, don't use it. Why do you need it for?

[00:34:12]You know, you you you could probably just increase the, you know, the amount of bacteria in so by a good aeration and save yourself 100 quid a year on seaweed products, which a lot of people still even put down during the winter. What's what's your again because again people will look at the pictures and go, "Fucking hell, Ben. That's just incredible." And and it is. There's no question about it. What what do you what do you what do you find your worst or the biggest challenges on on managing lawns which you know I I've not seen many better I must admit um I've seen some that are on a par with it but you know the but what's your biggest challenge is it is it power is it um I don't know improving it every year on top of last year or what what what what is Um I I think I think my in my head is is making it as good if not better than the previous year. I always I have this thing of are we going to get to like a year down the line like oh is that going to be better than last year? cuz I always go back to like the pictures when I first seeded it and you think, "Oh, that looks mega." And then you but then you sort of look at you come through winter and obviously uh the weather doesn't pick up till like we're only now getting some decent weather. And I mean it's it's looked decent over winter, but you you sort of get to this time of year and think, "Oh, it's not looking as good as these pictures." And but then you then look at like back on pictures of last June, July, September, think, oh no, that that that does look look proper. That that's um but no, I mean I say one of the biggest problems as you know we have is is our water is is the water's poor and my drainage is poor.

[00:36:05]>> So it's that's my biggest problem is you almost because the soils are poor. It's I'm almost overwatering and I don't want to because the water's poor.

[00:36:16]>> Yes.

[00:36:16]>> Yeah. So, is it's a big that's my biggest problem I find is is is that is water management. What about um what I'm sure Ryan will be interested in this one because I know he's just done some po picking um and and people will be intrigued because there's obviously a a strange part of the industry that try and keep poor out which um on the ry grass you wasting your time personally. um on a creeping vent which is designed um the guy that designed it I knew met him at the Oxford Shere he came over once um guy called Dr. Richard Hurley he he made or bred or whatever you call it 007 um tour leader himself um but it was designed to keep out power um I know that it's virtually impossible. However, bent grass, creeping bent, whatever you want to call it, has a better chance than anything, but it still has its problems.

[00:37:25]You know, if you don't germinate quickly, the power will jump in in that early days in early stage. Um, what's what's your view on the power? You know, what I mean, I presume your percentage is very very low still and you wouldn't do anything to discourage it either, would you? I assume.

[00:37:47]>> No, I mean when we first uh seeded that um creeping bent, I had a few and I was doing like Ryan, I was out there picking, but when you're go when you're walking up and down 1500 square meter lawn picking picking up bits and and think, oh my god, and you're only a quarter way across. Um but like I say, that was it was because we had that slow germination to start with. Um, that's something that I did. I mean, don't get me wrong, I've got there's some bits of power in there, but nowhere near. If you look on my Instagram page from the before and afters, it's literally even when you when I I think there's a shot of when I killed it off and you can see the amount of blobs of po in there.

[00:38:35]>> Just massive plants. Um but no now like I say I've got there is bits in there but noticeable no. Um would I go out and pick it? Not >> do you think it's Do you think you've got the sort of similar percentage than you had last year and the previous year?

[00:38:55]Do you think it's increased year on year on year?

[00:38:57]>> Um I'd say I've got slightly more than last year. Um, but again, not not too much because the bent just it's too thick, isn't it?

[00:39:10]>> It just doesn't create enough space to to let it get in. So, um, my biggest problem is the peacock that keeps crapping everywhere.

[00:39:19]>> Yeah. Yeah. That's a problem that we all have, you know. Got to be honest.

[00:39:22]>> Problem I haven't necessarily got I'm not sure on my would be big enough for even just a pen for a peacock. Never mind, you know.

[00:39:30]>> Right. Yeah, >> I'm thinking Ben about obviously all day you're there you managing maintaining that lawn. I'm thinking more of when you go home and you your own lawns. Um do you manage them in a similar rich way?

[00:39:47]Have you gone with creek and bent at home or is it kind of is it a fly mo job? Like what what are we what are we talking?

[00:39:54]>> I've got my lawn is probably smaller than yours. Um, and it's uh just the dog's toilet.

[00:40:02]The the last thing I've always said, it's funny cuz when I we used to have two dogs and I seeded um I I can't even remember what it was. I bought myself a little web um old school was it web or a qual rotary mower and I got it down lovely. I so was in into it. Um, but we had one summer and I think the dogs weed just burnt everything and I just said to her, "Mrs. Nope, we I'm not I'm not doing it." And the amount of times I say to her, "I want a bigger garden. I want a big" She said, "You don't even do ours now, so why why do you want a bigger one?" And sometimes I do sort of think like coming home from doing that all day every day. That's the last thing I want to do.

[00:40:45]>> Yeah, I was going to say that. I guess it's um it'd be become almost your entire life, wouldn't it? I think if I'm cooped up in a classroom all day. So for me it's I've got to get out any I need the fresh air to >> Yeah. That's the thing. I mean I mean even this morning I've I've had my boss on the phone cuz the water's gone wrong at work. So I'm sitting here sorting that out on a Saturday morning. So my garden sort of takes a back step.

[00:41:09]>> That's fair.

[00:41:10]>> It's a full-time job isn't it? I mean you know as you said earlier it's like the fourth bridge by the time I mean how long does it take you? I know you had you had three fairway mowers. Obviously, you had one to vertic um which is mad. You had two then to mow. You had a spare one when the other one used to go off to be sharpened and everything. But how how long did it take you to cut the partlands there? 75,000 square meters because they're all striped, aren't they? They're all >> Yeah. Yeah. All striped. It's um if I start at um you know if I start at 8:00 in the morning I'll I'll be finished by about 3. So it's it's a good day to to cut them >> and I do that twice a week.

[00:41:57]>> Twice a week as well. Now they were they were one of these again um overseed with ryrass for many years weren't they?

[00:42:05]Yeah, >> these salesmen um surprised they didn't take you on holiday to be honest, but um they were selling you the ry grass dream. Um and and and that was that was difficult to manage apart from the fact that it was previously what 55,000 square meters. Um you also had an expectation in the winter to present it as well. um and it became muddy and and not as good and the grass still used to be fed and grow like the clappers. Um we suggested obviously going away from that and haven't needed to seed and save saved um your boss man a fortune in grass seed every year. Um how do you manage them differently at the moment?

[00:42:54]Is there anything in particular that you do differently?

[00:42:58]No, I mean they're, as you know, they're on the um list of jobs to rip up and start again. Um, which would be nice because like I say, they they are a nightmare to what is expected. I mean, don't get me wrong, they they look fine for a for a front lawn.

[00:43:21]>> Yeah.

[00:43:21]>> Um, but they you get on top of them and they're full of all different grasses.

[00:43:26]So there's there is some bents in there funny enough. There's some fescue in there. Some a lot of ry grass, a lot of weedy horrible grass, a lot of >> po.

[00:43:34]>> Um so yeah, so it and again drainage wise they just in the winter you you can't get on them. There's you just you can't really take machinery on them. If you do you're just making a mess. You're better off staying off them.

[00:43:49]>> Yeah. Um, but like you say, it's it's all about do you do too much and then start wrecking it or do you sort of say to yourself, don't I'm going to keep off them and then yeah >> then you get the thing of why are these looking as they do. So it's it's a difficult one. Um, but >> it's it's a difficult because he's got his expectations are you know probably more so a few years ago they were incredibly high. I mean, he technically wanted the best lawns, I would say, in Europe. You know, without a doubt, we'd have probably said the world if I could, wouldn't he? And that's that's a difficult expectation because it's not just like a golf tournament. You know, you only have to have a golf course nice for six days.

[00:44:33]>> You know, it can be after that.

[00:44:35]Nobody cares. The cameras aren't there.

[00:44:37]But with yours, it's an owner who who has an expectation 365 days, including Christmas Day when you're not there. He still wants to be able to look out and go, why is it not as stripy as I want it?

[00:44:51]>> Yeah.

[00:44:51]>> So, it's a it's a it's a a completely different expectation, but it is someone's garden. It's like, Jesus, this is this is crazy. But but he does he obviously likes grass, doesn't he?

[00:45:03]>> Yeah. Yeah. He's he's he's he is grass mad. He's um I think where what it was was when he first um so he says to me anyway when he when he first moved there they re they receded all of that parkland with a um a bent fescue funny enough. Um and then when he had all the renovations done the whole of that parks was just bulldozed and soil bought in and just totally ripped up. Um, and then it was receded with a I don't even know what it was. It was a Baron bug, something like that. Um, and he just hated it from the outset. Um, and he always goes back to when I used to come in here, I used to drive in there, my headlights used to make that look like a carpet, and I want that again. Um, which fair play to him. He he sort of spends the money, so why not? But um yeah, like I say, it's a difficult one because expectations are he wants it how it used to be. Um so I at the minute have to make it look as best I can with what I've got. So >> So you still have challenges just like Ryan, just like many people, you still got challenges every day. But do do you feel that it do you feel that you've changed your thought process over the over the years now? Do you think that it it makes you think differently about what you're doing and and how you do it and why sometimes you do it or or does it not?

[00:46:38]>> Yeah. No, definitely. I mean, like I say, since since you you came on board and offered your advice and it it's just changed it a lot cuz like I say, >> he he did pay.

[00:46:49]>> Yeah.

[00:46:50]Um he um but yeah no it's I obviously would be more like oh I need to get this on I need to throw this product on this will make that better and um no so it's very much these days like no no I don't need to do that as such I just need to do it this way or um so yeah it's it's like I say it's a difficult one because it's on a such a large scale so and when you've got them internal lawns which are a bit more eye for detail.

[00:47:23]When you've got stuff going on with them, you you sort of your Parkland has to take a bit of a back step. So then but then the next week you're like, "Oh, well that's looking crap over there." So it's Yeah, it's difficult being on a large scale to to keep that standard up.

[00:47:40]What did um when when when you did the bodgege and it came up so good, what did your boss man what was his sort of first, you know, thoughts and and views?

[00:47:57]>> Well, put it this way, his his screen saver on his phone is still that picture, that original picture.

[00:48:04]So, that shows how much he loves that lawn.

[00:48:06]>> Wow. So, um, yeah, I I did notice that the other day when I was stood next to him. Hang on. His his screen's over on his phone. It's his back lawn. So, um, >> that that's something to be proud of.

[00:48:17]Yes. You know, you you created that at the end of the day. And that that's pretty spectacular.

[00:48:23]>> Yeah.

[00:48:23]>> But like I say, like like we said before, it was it was very much like we'll we'll do this and then and then we'll rip it up and start again once we know that I like that seed. But it came up so well and we were expecting him to say, "Yep, here we go." But it was more of a Yeah, that's brilliant. Thanks, guys.

[00:48:42]Um, and we're still with it. So, it's um, like I say, I still have the challenges of it sits wet in the winter like you said before. It it rolls to it's like a billyard's table. The water when we have a heavy downpour, it literally just sheets off there. There's there's drainage in there that's like say wrapped in term and water can't get through and um yeah just just yeah is a bodgege but I'm I'm winning at the bodgege.

[00:49:14]>> What um what do you what do you take each year? What what do you try and because obviously it's still a lawn.

[00:49:22]It's still somebody spending a lot of money on a lawn. But what do you what do you particularly try and improve year on year? Is there anything in particular or or not?

[00:49:33]>> Um I I think with me it's more I mean I've been doing this a lot of years now is but I'm still still knowing when and why you're putting the feeds on. And in the past, what I've struggled with, I've put I've put feeds on and then I'll I'd wait too long and then it would start going not wrong, but it would it would go off color. It's all like like you've taught me to to write keep diaries of when and weathers and why I'm or not why I'm putting on but like timing wise. Um so it's them sort of things what I try and improve on. So, so that like you say 365 days a year it looks good cuz in the past I've done it where like I say I can put a feed on and then wait two week two weeks too long before I put the next feed on and then you're playing catchup all the time. Um so they're the sort of things I'm trying to still trying to improve myself.

[00:50:37]>> It's a bit like bit like Ryan then and Ryan will back this up really is so sometimes less is more almost.

[00:50:44]>> Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Yeah, that that's that's definitely something I found is that I remember when I changed my lawns to be Ben Fescue. There's a moment where they were looking that good. I thought I I don't know what content to make for the for the the channel in a sense. And I thought I'm going to have to kind of redirect the avenue that I go down and I found that when it was ryrass, I always I always fought it. I was always putting feed down and it look great for a week and it look poor the next week and I wouldn't know what to do. and I'd have every product and every tool and that garage is full of it's probably not far off what you've got Ben in terms of equipment wise but yeah it's you always almost trying to figure out what's going right and going wrong whereas what I found these last couple of years is that really it just get it's just basic stuff it doesn't have to be that complicated almost uh to to have it looking as what most people with class as something boss in a sense.

[00:51:47]>> Yeah.

[00:51:47]>> If you want to make some content, you paint that fence at the back there.

[00:51:51]>> Yeah.

[00:51:54]>> Yeah. I might have to get myself like a harness or something in case die. It's quite high. But yeah, I think we might um wrap up the episode there then for the Let's Talk Lawns podcast. We'll definitely have more content coming out over the next few weeks. Ben's certainly going to be on uh with more stuff as well. Like we said at the start, check out his socials. He's got stuff on Instagram. He's got stuff on YouTube as well. So, check out all of that. The links will be down in the description below. Give the podcast a like if you have enjoyed it. Share it on your socials, too. Get the word. I want this podcast to spread as much as possible because there are so many myths and misconceptions out there. And rarely, like we've said in this podcast, to get lawn care right. Isn't that hard? So, subscribe if you haven't already.

[00:52:41]Finally, thanks for watching.