Workbenches improve chiseling performance compared to working on the floor because they provide a solid, stable surface that allows force to transfer directly into the workpiece without bouncing. When working on the floor with plywood, the workpiece is not secured and bounces with each strike, reducing the effectiveness of the chisel and creating rough cuts. A heavy workbench with proper floor contact creates a stable platform where the force from the mallet and chisel transfers efficiently into the wood, resulting in smoother, more precise cuts.
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When She Gives Away Your Tools | 611
Added:Welcome to Wood Talk. Now, here are three guys who, if combined, would make one hell of a woodworker. Mark, Shannon, and Mad. All right, it is show number 611, and on today's show, we're talking about why workbenches are better than the floor, managing customer expectations, and thick, thick workbenches. All that and more coming up. But first, we want to let you know that Woodt Talk is proudly sponsored by Woodcraft. Woodcraft is your trusted source for quality woodworking machines and power tools. Whether you're just getting started or looking for your next upgrade, they're going to help you find the right tools to power your woodworking. How exciting. All right.
Well, use that code WT.
>> It's hard.
>> I can hear in your voice, Mark.
>> First show back.
>> Quite thrilled.
>> We've had a few weeks off to say the least. And uh yeah, I'm trying to get the energy back up. Uh so make sure it's >> not working. Make sure you go to uh woodcraft.com and use the code WT2026 for 10% off regularly priced merchandise. And that can't be combined with other offers. Of course, some exclusions apply. And our show is also sponsored by the generous contributions of people like you, you and you, and you and you.
If you want to help support the show, you can do so by going to patreon.com/woodtalk and signing up to become a patron of the show. This time we'd like to thank Kenneth Butts. Zachary Gour Gourd.
Gourd. Gourd. Zachary Gourd. Gour.
>> I like Gourd. Go for >> Gourd. Yeah. Was like kind of like a fall theme on that one.
>> Yeah. Zane Clark. David or Dave? Dave.
Oh, informal Dave. We're friends now.
Dave orc Tyler Aguir. Agiewear and Mike atworkshopf floororplan.com.
>> All right, that's great. Uh, hey, just a quick note. If you listen to this show and maybe sometimes >> I thought it was a quick note for me.
Just a quick note, Matt. You suck at this.
>> Yeah, quick note, Matt. Uh, do better.
Um, if you if you're a fan of this show, sometimes, you know, if you got it if you got it in your podcast app or whatever, you're going to get all the shows. But sometimes there may be things we need to let you know about, including when shows come out. And we have a newsletter. This is very old school, but what's old is new again. And we now have a newsletter you could sign up for. So if you want to at the very least just get an email in your inbox letting you know when the latest show is released, we will send that to you uh each time.
And if there's anything else relevant to the show, and sometimes there could be announcements of us, you know, being someplace or something you could do to have some questions answered. I don't know. Who knows?
>> Are we going somewhere?
>> Not yet.
going.
>> Well, we just went to uh to Woodcraft's thing, right? So, you know, we we technically have done it in the past.
Possible we could do it again.
>> You just had a big family road trip, too. So, you could put Matt and I in the car and drive us across the country and then compare and contrast.
>> Yeah.
>> Which is worse, screaming kids or screaming Matt and Shannon?
>> I I would take my kids over you guys any day. It's probably smart. Very smart.
Sorry. But we are going to put this link in the show notes. I'm also going to make sure this link is available at the website. So when you go to the website, look at the top. There may even be a popup that that allows you to sign up for the same thing. But if you missed that, >> what's old is new again.
>> Pop-ups are back, baby. Actually, that never really have gone anywhere. Um the top nav, you'll see a little thing that says newsletter. So you could sign up there and this way we could stay in touch. We could be buds. Inbox buds.
That's what we want from you guys.
>> Inbox buds.
>> Yeah. All right. So let's get to uh what's on the bench. It's been a while, but I I would guess that, you know, everybody's been focused on some typical summer stuff, you know, vacations and and barbecues and stuff. So, I haven't gotten a ton of woodworking done. I went on like >> Sounds like your life.
>> Yeah. A 3-week road trip um was was insane, but it was okay. And we got back safely, >> but it was okay.
>> It was okay. I will say >> it was good for getting a renewed sense of like clarity for what we're trying to do because we are um I won't say we're at like a crisis point with the business but it is a challenging point business not as a family as a as a business.
>> Yeah. As a business.
>> Well, the family is always a challenge.
>> That's personal.
>> I was I was going to be really proud of you. I'm like, "Oh, you're a really good parent. Really thinking through everything. That's that's good."
>> No, the whole time was about the business. Yeah.
>> Okay. That's I'm sitting on the beach thinking about the business. Uh but there you may continue. I'm sorry. Yeah, definitely some uh some clarity came out of that in terms of like >> what are we going to do from here on out like it's been 20 years and in a lot of ways in this environment no one's really done that before like we are at that that leading edge of people who started in that 2005 2006 time frame and are actually still going if you can believe it because most of them have stopped by now. So, what does the next phase look like? How do we retain our our ethics and morals and continue to run the business the way we want to, but also survive because we need to make money in this new uh this whole new paradigm. So, we had a lot of that going on in our brains. And I'm not going to say too much about it yet because we're still kind of formulating what all that looks like, but a lot of it comes down to getting back to individual connections and and making more contact points with the community, doing more with what we have. you know, we're never going to have the numbers that we used to have.
So, stop trying to chase those numbers, but instead focus on the numbers that we do have and try to give the people who who really enjoy our stuff and interact with it the best experience possible.
So, part of that was saying, you know what, we have been toying with this idea, the fact that we have a commercial location that we don't feel uncomfortable inviting people in, like when it was attached, the shop was attached to our house, it wasn't something I wanted people to visit very often. Um, but now that it's a standalone building, it's like we really got to do this thing. We've been talking about it for ages. Let's start having open houses where we just invite local woodworkers to come and connect and hang out for a little bit. There's no strings attached, no expectations, but to be kind of a a hub for other woodworkers, not just to meet us and hang out, but to meet each other. And that's that's I think one of my favorite things about this is when we hear, "Oh, I came to your, you know, whatever event. I got connected with this guy and now I'm doing this." And it like everybody just finds each other. So, we held our like very last minute held an open house. It was fantastic. Like the place was packed. It was like shoulderto-shoulder at one point and the parking lot is packed. People are parking on the road on the side road up in the neighborhood which I'm sure that neighborhood loved.
>> But it was a packed house and I'm like this is what it's all about. Like this is what we need to do more of. Um it was super fun. Met so many great people and it will definitely not be the last time we do something like that. So that was a blast. Yeah, >> that's cool. I mean, that is that is really what got us all started in this, right? That community >> that I think >> through nobody's fault just through the explosion of tech and stuff. It's it's it's died.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, you know, I think that's awesome.
That's great.
>> It's getting harder and harder to find.
And honestly, like my goal and a big part of the theme of what we're trying to do is to be the the anti- AI. you know, whatever AI is leading us toward and everyone's usage of it and the the social media detachment and attention economy, I want to be the answer to that for woodworkers. I want to be the alternative.
>> John Connor, >> something something like that.
>> So, uh yeah, so that's super exciting.
Uh dining table that I'm building still going, almost done. I just kind of glued up the top and power went out in the shop on Friday, which was a blast. And uh I texted a few people who reminded me that this wouldn't be a problem for Shannon.
>> But from 9:00 till 2:30 the power was out. So I got nothing done in the shop on Friday, but pretty close to the final uh stages of that build. And on a sadder note, um you guys might notice uh over my left shoulder typically right over here is usually a little cinnamon bun.
And you see Doug rug >> cinnamon bun.
>> Yeah. my little cinnamon bun loaf sitting on the uh on the rug over there.
Uh we we had to put Douggee down last week. Had a very rapid progression of disease that just kind of came on super fast and it w it was just I've never seen anything like it. It was so quick, but it got to the point where, you know, we wanted him to go out with some dignity and not drag it on to the last minute and traumatize the family and the kids.
>> Um but it was it was happening quickly and uh so we had to do what we had to do. So unfortunately Douggee is no longer with us, but for an English bulldog, they generally have a 8 9 10 year lifespan, and they typically spend a lot of those years with a lot of health problems. This boy had zero health problems until we moved to Missouri, which is when his allergies started to kick in. But other than that, he had a trouble-free existence for 9 years. So when when you look at it that way, I feel very lucky for them.
>> Aside from the trouble you gave him, >> the trouble I gave him. And honestly, I will never own another bulldog ever. I like I understand people who who like identify with certain breeds and uh English bulldog just works for some people, right?
>> Not for us. Um I love love him.
Absolutely loved him. But he was a tiny wrecking ball through through this house, through his entire life. And he calmed down in the later years, but oh my god, like he he was a tough dog to raise. So, uh, broke the mold, uh, in this household, for sure. Um, and look, you I mean, that's the thing. Uh, my two co-hosts here are no strangers to these same losses, oddly enough. Douggee passed, uh, the day after uh, Pancake's anniversary uh, passed last year. And Shannon, you've also had some issues with your your mom's dog, right? Just recently.
>> Yeah, we we had to put Oscar down. I don't know. It was probably about a week, maybe a couple weeks before Douggee. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Well, I mean, Oscar was almost 17.
>> Oh, wow.
>> That's an old man.
>> We we we've been in palative care with him for, you know, probably a year or so. And it just got to the point where my vet called me and she said, you know, his kidney results just make me want to cry.
>> Poor guy.
>> It's time. So, I I think, >> you know, that was particularly poignant for me because he was originally my mom's dog. You know, I had a >> There's still some connection there.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I mean I was I was incredibly happy to be able to do that and my mom and I, you know, worked all that out before she passed and, you know, I know that really put her at ease and it was it was funny kind of like you say with Douggee, you know, he was Oscar destroyed many parts of my hardwood floor. Um, but you know, for those who do those tests when the wood cups and then if you let it dry out, it flattens out again. My hardwood floor has flattened out. Um it's funny how >> consistent urination on the floor once that stops you know >> after a few months it eventually dissipates >> does flatten out. So you know maybe not wide plank floors but tra traditional hardwood floor it has flattened out.
Yeah that was that was rough. I still find myself like coming into the kitchen first thing in the morning and flipping on the light and looking for a puddle before I walk in there and then right >> yeah there isn't one waiting for you.
Um, in the last week or so, Douggee had major swelling. And he's never been a drooler, and he's always had real good control of cupping in his lips to cup the saliva, but he had so much swelling in his lymph nodes that it was causing one side to sag. So, his drinking >> was, first of all, he's on a steroid, so he's drinking like crazy and it's going everywhere. And same thing happened with our floors. and it's and I want to fix it, but I'm like, now's not the time to sand this and deal with this because every board's kind of cuped and I know in a few months it's going to settle down. It'll flatten out and then I'll deal with it. But same sort of thing happened with our floor.
>> Yeah.
>> So, to kind of uh flip this to something positive, um we should at least announce uh Matt's new baby dog, which I believe is named uh Toasted Marshmallow S'mores or something like that.
>> I mean, that's the be Yeah, sure. You can tack on whatever things you want to her name. Toasty.
>> Toasty. Good. Toasty goodness.
>> Actually, that's kind of the hard part about this is like we're so into like nicknames and funny naming things. Yeah.
>> Which is not helping with the whole teach the dog its name thing, >> right, >> at all?
>> Cuz you want it to be something like distinct and unique to them so that they always know when you're referring to them. And it's also been kind of weird because we were so used to Pancake and having her for so long and having like an actual adult dog.
>> Yeah.
>> Versus a puppy now where like especially Pancake and her naming like she she would respond to like basically anything.
>> So we could have fun with her name and she's still calm and understand we're actually dressing her.
>> Yeah.
>> So it's kind of weird to be like, "Oh yeah, we can't just say whatever the hell toasted whatever."
>> Yeah. She's not.
>> We actually have to use the full name to get her to understand what her name is.
>> Right. And another French bulldog.
>> Yes. Another Frenchie.
>> Awesome. I did see the picture. She's adorable.
>> She's a It's a cute one. We decided it was also kind of tough, too, because you're like, "Okay, we don't want to necessarily like replace >> pancake. You can't, >> right?"
>> So, we went through the whole thing like originally we're going to get the same uh coat, a brindle.
>> Yeah.
>> But we're like, "Okay, maybe something completely different, >> so we don't compare >> those similarities." Yeah.
>> Yeah. So she and u we're on our third red doberman. So we take the opposite way and Doberman's are so consistent in their personality too that there are so many things that each one of our dogs we've had reminds us of the previous two and we try not to make you know they they are still their own unique thing certainly but uh we kind of like that set of personality quirks and it works out for us. So all right so yeah that's pretty much it for me. Um, let's get into the other things you guys have on your bench.
>> That was still That was all you, huh?
Wow.
>> That was took a lot of time. Well, you talk about dogs, we're going to go way off track.
>> I mean, we could talk about biking.
>> Well, >> it is the tour to France right now.
>> Well, >> just Shannon and I could say some things.
>> There was there was an American at the front of the race.
>> Hey, >> two hours ago.
>> Oh, nice.
>> That was two hours ago, though.
>> Okay. Well, he's I'm sure he's still not there at this point.
>> Ben Simmons is a great writer, but maybe not. Yeah, he is fun to just look at though because he is like the epitome of America on a bike.
>> He really is.
>> Today there's there's a shot where he's riding at the front and some dude in like red, white, and blue like board shorts >> and a flag draped over his shoulder and nothing else. Wearing nothing else. And he had like the fullon Quinn Simmons like beard and like what do you call >> mustache thing?
>> Lamb chops. Thank you. And goes out and like high-fives him and and all the non-American commentators are just like, "Well, that was American.
>> That's very American."
>> Yeah.
>> See what you did, Matt? Now you got us talking about cycling.
>> That's fine. I mean, I've been I've been doing a little more biking, >> especially with the kids. It's been kind of fun.
>> Nice.
>> Um, yeah. If they want to go for ice cream, I make them ride to get it.
>> There you go.
>> And it's 10 miles there and 10 miles back and back is up.
>> That's amazing. That is in and of itself a parenting win right there.
>> Well, they they kind of like it and I try to make it fun. So like Lindsay's a little more like apprehensive about danger or close danger.
>> Sure.
>> So I take them like right before sunset.
>> So we get down there.
>> We have ice cream at like 7:45 to 7:15.
Then we start riding back. It's about an hour and a half ride back.
>> Sunset was like around 9.
>> Mhm.
>> And I got them headlights and headlamps and we had a like cuz they're on the trail the whole time. Like there's like literally no one around either.
>> Yeah.
>> And like at at dusk you got all these like there's so many fireflies out here.
So they just have a blast like watching the fireflies popping up in the all the grass and everything. And we get back to kind of where we live and it's like the sun's like all the way down, but you still have a little bit of like the illumination from the last little bit of light. But they got their headlight on or the headlamp on. They got their headlight. They're having a blast and they're like they're like they keep talking about it.
>> Yeah. I've done a couple times now.
>> That's winning at >> 15 miles an hour, man. It's awesome.
>> Oh, good job. You know, I don't mean to brag, but I got Ava off of her um her iPad for like 10 minutes today, so doing pretty good over here, too.
>> She's She switched from the iPad to an iPhone for 10 minutes.
>> Exactly. It went from one >> She was off the iPad.
>> I got her on I got her onto a bigger screen for like 15 minutes. So, you know, doing pretty good here, too.
>> Uh so, tell us about your bandsaw, Matt.
>> Okay, good. Yeah, I just um it's kind of I guess I kind of finished it up. It's at that point now where I'm like it's done enough where I can use it and I'm sure >> that there's a few things I'll probably never get done on it. But >> yeah, >> um it was a um ACM made Laguna import saw from 2004 that was being used in a mechanic shop which was bizarre. Um he he was using it to like cut metal and plastic and stuff for like car rebuilds and stuff. So, it was pretty well beat to hell, but still there.
>> Well, fundamentally, what makes a aside from the blade, what makes a metal cutting band saw different than like a wood cutting bandsaw?
>> Well, it's supposed to be a slower cut speed, >> okay, >> is what it's supposed to be.
>> Gotcha.
>> But it was running at full speed, which seems absolutely insane.
>> Okay. It was getting the job done, >> but you know, whatever it >> whatever. So, it needed new tires and uh blade guides is kind of what it actually needed needed.
>> And then and of course, you're like, "Oh, well, while I'm at it, I might as well do some other stuff." So, it had a had a 3 horsepower three-phase motor on it, and I'm like, "Well, I'm going to put a five horse three-phase motor on it and put it on a VFD so I can have it break." So, I haven't actually messed with how quickly it can stop itself. I have it set at 5 seconds right now, which it does without a problem. I may kind of just for fun start bringing that down a little bit. But I've never had a band saw with a brake at all.
>> So that's like a huge win for me. It also has the foot pedal brake on it too.
So I've never had the ability to turn a saw off with my foot before and not have to take my hands off the workpiece.
>> That is fun.
>> That's incredibly nice. And then the other thing like I've had this I've had a it's a 14inch Raycon. I've had it since 2010 >> and it was like it was a second band saw I bought. The first one was like a Robi 9inch tabletop saw that couldn't cut anything to save it life.
>> Yeah.
>> But I had it and it was cool to be able to like cut curves whether you wanted to cut a curve or not. That kind of thing.
>> Looks like you're cutting a curve today.
>> That's all I could do is cut curves.
Good luck cutting straight with that thing. Or doing like it had three inches of resaw height. So, I started doing uh turning and I bought, you know, smaller bowl lengths off of eBay.
>> I'm like, "Oh, I can clip the corners with the bandsaw."
>> No, no, no. You cannot clip the corners with the bandsaw.
>> Yeah.
>> So, when I bought the uh the right the the Reichcon, I'm like, "Holy crap, I can if it fits, it'll cut it." That's amazing.
>> That was cool.
>> So, I've had it for all these years.
It's been fine, but sort of like the limiting things with that saw is that it's made to be compact and small.
Right.
>> Right. Right. So the the table isn't that big. So there's not a whole lot of support room to actually like rest your work pieces on there. So you spend a lot of your energy cutting bigger pieces, holding the piece down to the table while you're trying to manipulate the thing through the blade. I've always found that to be kind of a challenge and limiting. And then the table height's like super high on that, which if you're doing small detail work is fine, but I don't really do that either. So, this is an 18inch saw, so I have a little more throat depth. And the table is quite a bit bigger, and it's also like 34 inches off the floor. And the Raycon is 42 in off the floor. So, the this new saw hits me at wrist height. The old one was at like elbow height. Um, what but was also kind of weird about it is like I started looking at it cuz I'm doing a video about it and I'm like, how much difference in size are these saws?
They're not that different. It's it's weird. Like there's the floor the footprint of the two saws.
>> Yeah.
>> And height very similar.
>> So the the depth from the front to the back would have been the same exact footprint depth if I had the old motor on it. I added the bigger motor which bumped it out uh 2 in deeper, but otherwise it would have been the same depth. As far as width goes, that's the biggest difference is 3 in different in width, which I was like, how the hell does that work? That doesn't seem but the way that the Raycon is set up with the table like it overhangs so far past the the bottom wheel that's where all the the width goes and then the new saw is actually like an inch shorter. So in reality like from compactness sense >> it's the same.
>> Oh wow. So good.
>> I never realized there was such a difference between table height. I've never actually paid attention to the table height of a band saw. 42 to 34 though. That's huge.
>> It's a big, especially for me. I'm short.
I >> 42 sounds pretty high.
>> 42 is nipple height for you. You don't want You don't want your nips at the bandsaw like that.
>> Got to be careful.
It gets cold, you slice one of them off.
It could be bad.
>> Oh my gosh.
That's That's cool though. It sounds like you got more bang for your buck in a smaller space.
>> Yeah. And then I I just did like a sample cut just to play with it. They did a quick resaw on a six inch tall piece of white oak.
>> And I'm so used to like my feed rate being based off of how the motor sounds.
Yeah.
>> And what the motor's doing >> to this where like the motor doesn't even know there's anything there.
>> I'm just relying on the blade to make sure I give it enough time to clear the cut.
>> Right.
>> Like that's it's it's it's bizarre.
>> Yeah.
>> Bizarro.
>> Well, this is where you always hear um who is it? I think Michael Fortune would say in some of his seminars about how you you really can do, you know, significant resaws on a 14-inch band saw, but there are ways to do it with the proper blade, the proper feed speed.
But that's exactly one of those cases as you're pushing, you're hearing and you can actually hear the the motor slow down. So, you have to be careful to let it clear. But it is nice when you get that extra horsepower and it's literally how fast can you push it through >> because it's going to go.
>> That's literally all it was.
>> Yeah.
>> And it's because it's heavier, too. is smoother. So like the 14inch saw I think is like 150 lb all in and I think this saw is more like 450 to 500 lb.
>> So like just that much mass there >> makes for just it's much so much smoother and more relaxing experience than >> when like the whole saw is kind of shaking because it can.
>> Yeah, of course. That's cool, man. Well, good. Enjoy it.
>> Try.
>> Shannon, you're doing something similar, right? But not as cool.
Uh yeah, >> probably cooler maybe. I don't know. I don't know what it is. I just see what's in the notes.
>> So, one of my uh one of my wife's favorite shows is Flea Market Flip. I don't even know what channel it's on.
Who knows anymore? We stream everything, >> right?
>> But it's one of those shows where she'll be watching and I'll be doing other things. She's like, "Come in here. Come in here. Do you think you could do that or what would you do with that, you know, table or something like that?"
that. So, if you're not familiar, they go to a flea market and they buy random stuff, upcycle it, dress it up, and then take it to like a high-end like Brooklyn flea market and resell it. And it's a team competition type thing. The flea markets they always go to are in the Northeast and just like on a whim, uh, looked up there, one of the flea markets they go to in the show is called The Elephant's Trunk. It's in Connecticut, uh, kind of middle of Connecticut, which is about a 4-hour drive for me. So, uh, I've been doing a fair bit of business travel lately. So, I've been acrewing points through Hyatt and I had this free >> night award that was about to expire.
Well, there's a Hyatt hotel in Milford, Connecticut. So, we did an overnight and went up to this place and it was pretty amazing. Like, this flea market was enormous. And it's not like, you know, certainly there was aspects of the flea market there that was like, you know, a guy reselling a bunch of toys that like don't have collectible value, just like in packages and things. There was crap.
But the large portion of this flea market, you could tell, was designed for people who want to like upcycle >> furniture. A lot of industrial type stuff, like bins upon bins of industrial casters. I could have spent like a day there. It was just really cool seeing some of these giant casters, really cool old furniture, all kinds of amazing hardware options. Um, one guy had nothing but like cast iron.
I mean, they weren't hood ornaments, but that was my first thought. It's like really ornate cast iron animals and things like that that would make really cool like drawer pools or something. You could wander around this place for hours and not see everything. It was just huge. So, long story short, we went up with the ideas that we would do our own flea market flip. So, we split up. We gave our gave us each a hundred bucks um and headed out into the flea market to see what we can find. And she bought some old like um Pepsi wooden crates, you know, that still had a Coca-Cola and a Pepsi one, but still had like the Coca-Cola one. Uh really beautiful. That red paint. It's probably carcinogenic knowing how old it is. But that red was so deep, you know, really really cool.
So she's going to turn wants to turn that into some sort of end table. Well, I say she I end up turning that into some sort of end table cuz that's always the thing like when you watch that show, you know, these people don't have any woodworking chops. You know, they're but you know, they they've watched YouTube, they can use a brad nailer and they've got like craftsmen in the studio that help them >> and I'm always like, "Ah, I can't believe they did that." Why didn't they join it that way? You know, the the armchair. So, she's like, "Put your money where your mouth is." So, >> I went and I got this really really cool old farm pulley, big like 18-in diameter pulley wheel with the hook, and it has all kinds of gorgeous patina on it. I did buy um a nice set of industrial casters that have like this blue pinstripe on them, which is pretty cool.
I'm going to try to figure out like I was looking at a bunch of like old cool wooden crates and I was like I don't need to buy anything wood. I have lots of wood. So, it was kind of a different perspective going into this, but I do have this idea. I have a a console table in my house. It's one of the last pieces of furniture that I haven't built. You know, that is uh I guess it's a remnant of our poor days. I think it's not IKEA, but it might be Target furniture and we've just had it forever. And I keep saying I want to build it and get rid of it. So, I'm going to try to figure out a way that I can like mount the pulley under the console table and do stretchers through the pulley. If if I were to go to like a cable, it might be too much mixed media, but I'm trying to figure out how I can put it in tension.
>> Problem is is stretchers push the legs out, right? If I put it in tension, it's going to pull the legs in. So, I'm trying to >> I mean, there's ways around that. I don't have to put it under that much tension. Do you really need that much, you know, stretcher support on a typical console table? So, it may just end up being purely, you know, aesthetic to have this cool like patined iron wheel hanging under the table. But, it was fun. It was kind of fun to see like when you go to a a place like that, taking whatever you can find and trying to turn it into something totally different. I mean, I have taken the idea of like flipping the pulley like horizontally and maybe like making the centerpiece of a tabletop or put it under glass or something, but that just felt kind of tired. I don't know. I feel like I've seen that a bunch before. So, anyway, I got a bunch of old wooden crates and stuff sitting in my shop and rusty old pulleys and casters and things. I'm going to play around with that and see what I come up with.
>> Oh, well, it's like I always say you guys, uh, flea markets remind me of this that one man's junk is another man's junk.
Yeah.
>> All right.
>> Absolutely.
>> Well, actually, the cool thing is you touched on mixed media. We're going to be talking about that a little bit later uh in this show. So, you have recent relevant experience with that, Shannon.
>> Okay. You want to get to kickback now?
We got uh three pieces of kickback from you guys. You guys are always generous at giving us your opinions on things.
And Jana wrote in and said, "First off, love the show. I especially enjoyed that you all were are you all virtually bringing us along uh with the Woodcraft vendor trade show. I do hope that they take your suggestion uh in the other vid and open the show to at least some of us average Joe's on the last day. Today, I finally watched episode 609. The timing was incredibly good. I just got a new to me two horsepower 14inch Grizzly bandsaw not even 2 hours after watching the video and hearing Alex discuss what typically happens when a blade breaks at the weld. I was making another bandsaw box when there was a very loud pop.
Because of your detailed discussion, I was able to calmly shut down my saw, confirm what happened, and immediately email the company. Had I not seen the vid, I don't know that it would have occurred to me that the manufacturer is on the hook if the break is at the weld.
Hopefully, they honor my request and replace the defective blade. Thanks for helping a gal out, winky face. Well, there you go.
>> Glad glad to help, Jana. That's great.
And and they should be held responsible if it's a manufacturing, excuse me, a manufacturing flaw. It's just a matter, you know, some companies are better than others with that. So, good luck.
>> Mhm. Next one's from Kayn. In regards to the discussion of the corded versus cordless power tools, I would agree that having to do different battery platforms because the >> because your current Yeah, your current bra because your current battery platform does not make a tool you want is annoying. However, I see that Matabo is their uh 36vt tool line has an AC adapter so you can plug in your cordless tool into the wall. I would think everyone should do this. So my question to you guys is why do you think other companies don't? I would say the margins on batteries.
>> Yeah, that's where they're making their money.
>> That's where the money is that they don't make any money on the tools. I would say that's my guess having >> I mean businesses have to walk that line of like we're doing this because it's best for the customer, but we're also doing this because it's it's best for us. And sometimes things maybe go a little too far on this is good for the customer, but it doesn't help us sell more batteries. So, we can't, you know, they just, it doesn't get approved >> or chargers or whatever.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. So, I would imagine this is purely a money-m business decision and each company just makes that decision differently.
>> Yeah. And, you know, somebody's already doing it in the aftermarket, so why would you then do that, too?
>> Yeah.
>> Right. H Well, um I don't know who this is from. Um we've got another kickback.
>> That's my fault. and and and they they at some point in here say that I'm right. So I really would like to know.
>> Um so unknown person says, "Hey guys, thanks for the show. Wanted to give my two cents on the battery powered tools.
I made the jump um from just using middle of the road 2 milliamps orange drill from the home center to a premium Milwaukee and I cannot look back."
Shannon's absolutely right about the power on these. I decided to switch after drill holes for the after drilling holes for the legs on my Roman workbench made from 3-in wide oak with the old drill. I almost broke my wrist several times as the drill caught and whipped my hand around. Been there. Uh I purchased the Proline with a hammer drill and driver. At the time I didn't know we were about to buy an old 80s home in need of some serious work. And although I've actually uh I've yet to actually use the drill for the reason I bought it for, I constantly go to this set for fence work, drilling concrete, when adding railing, mixing mud, paint. I really don't know how I survived with the older tools. I've also discovered in the past couple years that they make a tableless battery, which has a crazy amount of power. This table battery, I put it on a sawzaw um for a Black Friday special. It's great for cutting roots, limbs, small logs. I'll probably never buy a chainsaw as the property I own just doesn't require that kind of equipment. So there we go.
>> Okay.
>> A pro would probably need a cord as a grinder for frequent work, but I do but for what I do, uh the freedom is a greater concern.
>> Well, there you go.
>> More power to you.
>> And that is Hey, that was Joshua.
>> Oh, >> and that's my bad.
>> Oh, >> and and it's weird because I just did something and it refreshed and I see the name there now >> and I didn't I didn't just put that there. So I Who knows? It's a show notes thing.
>> Okay. And the last >> another reason to hate Mark.
>> Yeah, I love this. I I listened back to the show because it has been a while since we recorded the show. So, when I published it last week, I was like, "Let me let me take a listen and uh I heard you put out a call for people to list out reasons they hate me, which is which is great. I mean, I love it." So, this is uh 10 reasons I hate Mark. And this is from Joel. And uh I do answer his question later as a thank you for this.
Anyway, he says, "Oh, I thought you compiled this yourself." I'm like, "Oh, you really were committed to this bit.
>> These are all different submissions from 10 different people." Yeah, 10 different compliments about myself. It actually does seem like something I would have done, right?
>> This is just what came out of his contemplation on his road trip. All the reasons I >> believe. What are the reasons why I'm great? Let me think. One, uh, okay, so one, he's friends with Matt and Shannon, and I am not. Number two, he has the self-confidence to wear cycling clothes.
I don't know that I agree with number two. Uh, I went I went on a group ride on Saturday. Yes, I wear cycling clothes, but when we stop at a gas station, convenience store, and I go in and I have to look at the people that work there and walk in like an a-hole, I feel so stupid. And they get it all the time. This is It's a It's a stop we do every single time we ride by. So, they're used to it. But I I am embarrassed when I walk.
>> You're still riding with flats, though, right? You don't have clipless.
>> No. No, I have >> So So you you're Oh, you do?
>> I do. But it's it's the what do you call it? Like the mountain bike style? Uh >> Oh, yeah. The SPD. Okay.
>> So, yeah, I'm not I'm not clicking around and walking all goofy. I walk normal.
>> Cuz that's the ultimate cycling nerd right there.
>> I'm still wearing the tight clothes. I got the helmet on and I'm walking in with my water bottle to to to mooch some free water off of off of the Circle K. I just I feel like such an idiot. And so, I'm sorry to take issue with number two.
I don't have the confidence, but I do it anyway. Number three, very important. He invented cutting boards. You're welcome, everyone. Number four, could not have known the timing would have been bad on this, but Douggee is cooler than my goldfish, so sure. Uh, number five, he's Italian and I'm jealous. Number six, he looks good in his PPE. Number seven, he has a better planer than I do. Number eight, his tattoos are cooler than mine. Number nine, he's a better woodworker than I am, but I could be that good, too, if I had his tools. And number 10, all that sweet, sweet wood talk revenue. And there we go.
>> Dude, what a great list. Can we have more like that? Because it it kind of, you know, made me feel good.
>> Good to be hated.
>> What are you gonna do?
>> So, yeah. Good stuff. Thank you. Uh, that was Joel again who did that. What do we have next? I lost my spot. Oh, hey, you guys know Woodcraft, right? You know about those those people?
>> I may have heard of them.
>> Heard of them. Yeah, >> they're they're great. So, they sometimes have themes in terms of like I'm still trying to figure out exactly what the theme is, like where you can identify this theme when you go to the website, but I was told that the theme for July is mixed media and trying new things. So, we're going to talk a little bit about this. Shannon, you just talked about the flea market business and you're you're it literally is mixed media with, you know, old metal components and possibly glass and things like that. Um, so we're going to talk a little bit about whether this is something we do and if not, why not? So Matt, you're you're not afraid of anything.
>> Is that what they say about me?
>> That's what I say about you, and I I respect that. I respect that greatly.
>> We had a conversation.
>> Fireflies.
>> Yeah, that too. Yeah, >> it tastes very good. We we had a uh conversation this weekend where I'm doing a little laundry room makeover and I was I was asking about like, hey, do you have any thoughts any positions of these outlets and I'm I'm moving this and I got a plumber coming in to add a slop sink >> and Matt was like, you know, it's just PEX. You you could do that yourself. And I'm like, "Sure, I'm sure I physically could do it, but there's so much I don't know about like the height of the drain and when you have to put the trap in and where's the positioning so that the vanity that we put there, everything's where it's supposed to be." There's just a lot of little details that like I don't trust the internet anymore. So, sure, I could go watch a couple of videos, but I don't know that that's going to give me good information. So, I would rather we we've got a plumber here that's actually really really reasonable, and I'd sleep better at night knowing that this was done professionally. So, I'm going to do it.
But it's my fear of trying something new without the proper guidance that stops me from doing some of those things. And I see Matt is kind of the opposite of that. I' I admire his ability to just jump into something and just get it done and figure it out and it turns out fine.
So, >> turns out fine.
>> Yeah. I mean, I I tend to be >> Well, let's check in 10 years. Um, but I tend to be the opposite of that and it kind of drives me crazy a little bit. So do so Matt tell us a little bit about your perspective on this when we're talking about mixed materials uh and you know especially when we talk about woodcraft and the things that they have the you know resins and um you know uh >> it's a building material Mark not just an adhesive.
>> Yes epoxy is apparently still a glue just to me >> right you can get words >> you can get quite a bit of this stuff over at uh >> at Woodcraft Shannon you do the kits that they allow you to do. So whether you're turning a component or you're adding um what do they call it is scales on on knife kits and things like that you can get your acrylic blanks there.
>> Um but aside from you know the supplies that they have caning >> I want yeah caning >> kind of a mixed media thing >> uh stained glass type stuff that they were doing.
>> Mhm.
>> Um but I want to know Matt I want to get in your head >> and I want I want to I want you want to be in there >> if I want to be more like you. If I want to be more adventurous with the things that I get into and I want to go to Woodcraft and see those other things and go, I'm not afraid of any of this.
>> How do I get there?
>> That's literally all you got to say.
>> What? What? What?
>> And you just got to believe in yourself.
>> Is that it?
>> I That's >> Is that what I'm missing?
>> It kind of have some faith in I don't know. It's not that it's not that crazy. I guess I'm just I'm I've never had that mindset where I'm like, "Oh, I I can't do this.
That's crazy." Yeah.
>> I think I I understand that no one's born with all the knowledge in the world.
>> Yeah.
>> It's It's funny though because wouldn't you feel that way when it comes to woodworking though, Mark? Like I'm not I mean in my shop I'm not afraid to try any technique, you know?
>> I I get this a lot like oh well I want to build this but it's beyond my skill level. And I was like come on just break it down. Like it's not there's nothing that's like so crazy just breaking down.
>> I mean yes and no. It's the fact that we're always filming everything that makes it a little bit tricky for me because >> I also have to be held accountable.
Whereas, if you're just working in your shop, you're not documenting it and sharing it with the world. If things go haywire and you're embarrassed, well, okay. So, you fix it, you move on.
>> Yeah. People People like that more than successes, though.
>> No, they do.
>> From a content perspective, they like they like Twitch. I'm like, I don't have enough of them.
>> Yeah. No, I People hate you, man.
>> I know. I can't with my list. He never makes mistakes. Um, but I do I do try to include mistakes and I've always done that because I think it's incredibly good learning lessons. But do you ever have mistakes that are maybe a little too stupid and a little too far that you don't want to include it because it is embarrassing?
>> You ever had that? Yeah. Either of you.
I mean, I I get I mean, I don't really know because I still show them if I do make stupid mistakes, but >> I feel like there are some mistakes that I make that I go I don't know that this is bringing value to them to see me make this mistake because >> it makes you human. So, that brings a lot of value.
>> Well, I'm not human. Everyone knows sort of freaking alien clearly.
>> I don't I think the people who follow along with my kitchen build thing, they know the biggest mistake I made was when I read the plans and I told our plumber where to put the uh the pot filler location, which I thought was the center line of of the range, was not correct.
>> So then that followed me all the way through. I had built all the cabinetry to go around there. I didn't notice that problem until I went to go build the upper cabinets and the doors weren't all the same size.
>> Yeah.
>> I had to remake a whole bunch of stuff.
>> Yeah. Well, see, and that's what scares me about the plumbing. I don't know. I know there are rules to this and everything.
>> You know, you can get a plumbing code book and it tells you everything the plumber knows.
>> You bring up a good point because I keep thinking, what's my choice? I go I go to YouTube and I look it up, right? And I don't trust that. But a book a book turns out >> you can you can get the same book that they have to follow.
>> I'm going to go to local library today and check out a book and find out what I need to do. In all seriousness though, with the plumbing thing though, if you only have a few like with especially with PEX, like to buy all the tools and everything, they're not cheap. So, it's pro like if you're only going to do one thing like that, I have I have no problem with you hiring that out because it's like the amount of money you're going to spend to have this guy come up and do it. You probably wouldn't even be able to buy the PEX >> because you need like the cutters, you need a crimper thing. Like, there's tools. It's like when I bought a a Cat 5 connector kit that I used one time and I've never made my own cables since then, but man, am I ready? I'm ready to go. I'm ready to go if anybody ever needs a new end on a cable.
>> And it was so anticlimactic. Like it wasn't hard. Like you just put in clip.
Done. All right.
>> No, the hardest part is getting all the the little colored wires together nice and flat and even insert them into the >> feed them in. Make sure they don't like get stuck if they go on a little channel.
>> So, when it comes to your woodworking and we're talking about projects now, we're talking about do you incorporate glass and metal resin? Matt, you just This is relevant to you. You just did a nice table.
>> I just did a resin table with metal, too. I did all kinds of things.
>> Do you enjoy it? Do you like doing that like mixed media?
>> Um, to some extent it's it's nice cuz it's different and there's a lot of variety, but there's also like so many more things to think about. You're thinking about all the the challenges and unique weird things have to go with each different media.
>> So, you're mentally have to be there a lot more, especially if it's not something you do like constantly. Like, I don't do epoxy constantly. I don't do finished metal work constantly. So, to kind of get back into that mindset of, okay, what actually matters here? What doesn't? What do I need to like think about it? It's a lot more of a mental load, but it's also a little more interesting than just going out to the shop and just plowing through whatever because you've done it so many times that it's second nature.
>> Yeah.
>> So, that's that part is kind of nice.
And I think that as like an overall, I don't know, completed piece composition thing, it also is kind of fun because you can really take the elements that you care about and make those the focal points and the other elements you can use to kind of detract or enhance depending on where you want to go with it.
>> So from a comp from a furniture composition standpoint, I think it kind of is a little bit easier, maybe a little more fun than trying to be like like for instance on like a wood wood table or whatever. Or like if I did that coffee table I just did and it was like all wood like it would be like okay do I make I guess I make the whole base out of like riffs on. So like it's all straight grain has no visual interest because I want the top to be the most interesting part but then it's like >> the there's competition between the color on the top and the color of the base because they're the same woods. So you make that different woods to make them contrasty. Yeah. So you still kind have to play with the same things but to be like all right the base is just flat black powder coated frame. Cool.
>> That's completely fading to the background its own kind of thing and the tabletop becomes a focal point a lot more. It's a lot easier at least in my mind to conceptualize that than okay, how do I make how do I make a wood base that doesn't attract any attention?
>> Well, I I will call this a mistake in woodworking and I don't want to insult anyone who's done this, but I have seen people who take a very visually interesting slab of some kind as a top and then they they woodworkerify the base, >> right? and you go, "Well, I still have to make a nice base for this thing." And they do it and it is a nice base. Just not with that top. It's too much. Like that top. And as much as I'm not like, "Oh, yeah, just go buy some hairpin legs." Like that. That kind of crap has been way overdone. We all know that. But there's a reason why that makes sense and why that kind of generally looks good to quite a few people is because the base needs to disappear and all you want to see is that top, right? So, I think exactly what you did is is very appealing because obviously the metal work would have been daunting for me to think about actually making a base like that, but not having to think so hard about the design of the base because the bass's job is to hold the top and get out of the way visually, right?
>> That was super nice cuz it went together really quickly. But we I think it was last time we talked about this where like I'm not used to having to do finish grinds >> on um welded pieces. So, like that's where my deficiency was through that process was like, "Okay, now I got to now I got to learn this skill of how do I prep this well enough so that these curves look natural >> and I don't like dish out whole sections and not have them be flat." So, that was like a fun kind of challenge or a little bit different.
>> Yeah.
>> But, I still welding I guess. Yeah.
>> I don't know.
>> How about you, Shannon? Anything stand out? Recent projects or anything that uh maybe other than these flea market things you're working on? I mean, you take that same example. I just built a base out of wood and painted black, but >> yeah, not really tested myself there. I mean, I've I've always tried mixed media in just about >> everything I've done, like whether it's, you know, using some sort of liner for a drawer bottom out of fabric or, you know, wallpaper. Uh, built an armar one time that used a natural grass wallpaper for the panels. So, I had this walnut rail and style and a a cyle I think sisle, however you're supposed to say that. Um, grass uh yeah, it was just wallpaper for the panel. I've always like from the simplest perspective, I've always tended towards metal hardware.
>> Um, you know, it seems very in vogue right now to make wooden drawer pulls and stuff. Heck no. And in fact, I usually I usually find all my drawer pulls in antique stores, unusual looking things, you know. Um, and it's a little hard when you've got a multi- drawer chest. You want a little bit of cohesion there. But you also can go off the reservation and have a different knob and and that becomes the focal point, you know, and now your drawer fronts fade into the background or whatever.
Um, I've always loved interesting hinges. Um, I did buy some hinges and things at this flea market actually because there's just some cool uh history, heritage, whatever in some of these um old like rot iron hinges and things. Uh, rat tail hinges are super cool looking.
>> So, I've always tried to integrate metal into my projects in that respect, but when it comes to actually >> like working with it.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. beyond tool making and like occasionally working with plate steel for saws and sure >> uh I I've shaped um hollows and round planes you using uh machine what did we call that stuff machine tool uh stock what are we calling that A1 01 01 steel that's what I was looking for tool steel that's the more simple way of saying what I just said yeah >> um you know shaping and tempering um uh the the steel that's kind of as far as I've gone I'm kind of interested in welding but I'm also kind of like the same reason that I don't buy a welding gig is the same reason that I don't like go out and buy a PlayStation.
>> Yeah.
>> Then I know I'll lose large volumes of my day.
>> Just like >> Yeah. blacksmithing is something that's always held a lure to me, especially when I worked at the Stepping Stone Museum. We had a blacksmith shop next door >> and I used to be able to go over and say, "Hey, can you make me like 20 nails?" It was cool.
>> I like that. That seems like right up your alley.
>> Yeah, I feel like it would, but you know.
>> Yeah, >> forge out back next to the pole lathe or whatever and >> Yeah, exactly. You put one right there.
>> Charge people money to come and watch you work.
>> Be just like the stepping stone. All right. Just in your backyard.
>> Sure. Sounds fun.
>> Great idea.
>> Well, cool.
>> I'm not sure how any of this relates back to Woodcraft, but uh >> Me either.
>> This is a mid roll, believe it or not.
>> I'm going to tell you, Shannon. I'm going to tell you right now. Woodcraft may have wood in the name, but they've got plenty for makers who like to mix things up. Whether your project combines wood and metal, >> mix up that epoxy, >> acrylic, composits, or resin, Woodcraft carries supplies like knife kits, acrylic blanks, casting resins, pigments, and molds to help bring it all together because sometimes the best woodworking projects aren't made entirely out of wood. Visit woodcraft.com or stop by your local woodcraft store. And remember, uh, make sure you use that code WT2026 at checkout. Get yourself a little discount there.
>> Yeah. And hey, Shannon, thought you might like to know >> to add to your list of ways you've offended people on this show. Off the reservation is considered offensive by many people.
>> Is it? Now, >> I'm just I'm I'm I'm just reporting the news here. Don't blame me. Just letting you know.
>> Good to know.
>> All right. I can't keep up with what's offensive anymore.
>> Should that be the title of the show is the only question that's in my mind right now.
>> Okay. Anyway, all right. My buddy Joel, who has 10 things he hates about me. Um, this was actually a um direct message on Patreon, which dang it, we are just not that great at checking that. So, this is from a month ago. So, apologies, Joel.
He says, "I recently completed a Rubo style workbench at a laminated southern yellow pine. Since switching to the bench from working on a concrete floor and saw horses, >> I've seen a tremendous improvement in the performance of my chisels, especially in mallet driven chopping operations.
>> Not surprised at all?
>> No. Mortise walls that used to be rough and fuzzy with lots of tornout bits of wood, are now smooth. Obviously, a workbench is way more convenient than working on the floor. But what's happening at a physics level? Is there something fundamentally different about a bench that a solid floor doesn't have?
And to be clear, I was doing all my chisel work on the floor with a piece of plywood as a backer. Is this just user posture or is it something magic that's uh why so many people build a Rubo style workbench? Many thanks to Woodcraft for sponsoring a great podcast. So, this is interesting because this is a fundamental thing that maybe sometimes we don't even think about or take for granted why we think a workbench is valuable. Aside from the fact that it's just a big massive heavy thing and yes, posture plays into this. Um, I mean, maybe some Japanese carpenters might disagree, but I think working on the floor sucks. Uh, and I like to have things up at a height where, you know, the the things that are doing the work, my hands, my arms are closer to the work, so I don't have to hunch over. Um, but there's quite a few reasons why this is happening. When I think when I think of someone chopping directly on the floor, I find that less problematic than chopping on top of a piece of plywood.
You now have different, you know, multiple pieces and surfaces here sitting on a very hard surface. My guess is you're not holding them down with anything. They are not secured. So, every time you hit it, you're going to get bounce. And every time that thing bounces, all of the force that you're putting into that from the mallet to the chisel to the work to the floor, it transfers through and you get so less effective of a hit. You're just not transferring the force directly into the cut. And all that bouncing is also moving your chisel and causing you to get just a really ratty edge, right? So, by having it up on a solid workbench, you can, it's not only, you know, solid and heavy, which is always good because it's not moving, but you typically are securing the workpiece so it lays flat.
Think about a scroll saw as an example.
That bit or that uh blade is going up and down, but you usually put this little forked hold down on it. If you don't use that, your workpiece is just like that, right? You got to hold it down. And if you hold it nice and tight, then it's a nice smooth cut. Did you like that?
>> Not going I'm not No, not not taking the bait on that one.
>> Uh yeah. The other thing is your concrete floor is anything but flat and there's probably stuff on it, whether it's dirt or, you know, whatever you might have on the floor that you're not getting full contact. So, if you have something that's fully secured, full contact, your pressure, your force that you're applying with that chisel and the mallet, it goes straight through through the work, absorbed by the bench, and everything is just directly connected.
Now, if your bench were light, very lightweight, and maybe the the legs weren't even or it was on an uneven floor, and you're trying to chop on that, or saw horses are a great example, or one of those portate type uh you know, things like that, you find that these tasks are absolutely they're just not fun. They're not fun at all. you get bad results, everything's bouncing around. So, I don't think it's magic and the physics of it is simply you're just transferring energy in a much more efficient way where it matters into the work. Um, I'm going to give you analogy.
If I kick Matt in the stomach, okay, something I think a lot about. If I kick Matt in the stomach and he's just standing, right, he's going to >> steal it cuz I got I got abs steel.
>> He's got abs of steel. I probably broke my ankle, but let's assume I didn't. All right. So, he's going to move back with it, right? And and part of the blow it's going to be a little less effective because he's going to be able to to fall back.
>> What if I did that same kick to Matt's stomach? I'm kicking his stomach again, except for now he's backed up against a wall.
>> Oh my goodness.
>> That could do a whole lot more damage, right? It's going to do a lot more damage to Matt >> except for those steel abs.
>> His steel abs still again might be problematic. It I may as well just kick a brick wall at that point. But they make a really cool like gong noise.
>> Yeah. Anyway, real stupid is more like steel drum.
>> Yeah. Anyway, so Joel, I hope that that makes sense. I'm glad that you got up off the floor. You're working on a workbench. This is also something I should say that is not only for Rubo style workbenches. any heavy um you know any kind of workbench type surface that you build. As long as it's got good contact with the floor, it's heavy and you are securing your work, you're going to be fine. Keep in mind this is something where someone goes, "Hey, I I've got an idea. I like the idea of a torsion box assembly table. I'm going to make that my workbench." And then they start using it as a workbench. Now, it's not to say that it can't be done, but if you are chiseling on top of a 3/4 in MDF top, which has open cavities, now you have flex in that cavity because it's hollow underneath, which means that that is not going to be the most efficient way to do things. The reason a workbench works so well is because you got that big thick top transferring directly into the rails and the legs right down into the floor. So, >> well, I think that's important, too.
When you're chopping on a workbench, you want to chop over the legs as much as possible. Yeah, >> you can I mean I've got a nearly five inch thick Rubo top back here. I can stand right in the middle of it and it absorbs that shock pretty dang well, you know? It's really really thick ash. But when I go over the leg, like the sound is different.
>> It feels different. It sounds different.
>> Yeah, cuz it's straight into that 6x6 leg right into the floor, it's a dramatic difference in efficiency. Uh just how much how much faster I can chop a mortise. Yep. There you go. All right.
Who's next? Matt.
>> Uh, yes. This from Monty. I used to think that I'm the world's slowest woodworker. It all It seems always to take longer to make a thing than I anticipate. This is no big deal when I make something for my own family, but it causes considerate causes considerate >> conrnation.
>> Constrnation. Oh my goodness. I got to make this I forgot to zoom this thing in. I usually have the text bigger.
Where's your glasses, man?
>> Uh, I got Lasic, so >> Oh, never mind. That's right. You just did that.
>> Go get an adjustment.
>> I just did that was like four years ago.
Uh, okay. Wait, when I'm making something for someone else and they have give me money for materials. If I tell someone it'll take 6 to 8 weeks, it ends up taking 12 weeks. If I tell them it'll take 12 weeks, ends up taking 6 months.
I'm exaggerating, but not by much. I make furniture and furnishings upon request and small items that I try to sell when I don't have a commission.
Some years I have one or two commissions, other years I have none.
Almost always I am making something that I have never made before. I may have had something similar but not the exact piece. I may have made something similar but not the exact piece. I tried to manage expectations by giving a generous time frame which seems to always not have been long enough. My wife tells me I should double the amount of time I tell the the potential customer. Perhaps I really am the world's slowest woodworker. Maybe I am a perfectionist.
or maybe I just make too many mistakes.
What do you tell your customers who commission you to make something for them when they want to know how long it will take? And do you always complete the piece within the given time? I took this question because I kind of just did this with my coffee table thing.
>> Sure.
>> Uh first thing, Monty, I would say, yeah, uh do what your wife tells you 100%. Double the time you think it's going to take justice. But this for some I don't know what it is but wives are always right like they just have that >> when she's a lawyer >> knowledge of everything. Yeah.
>> Of how things are going to work out.
>> So I would say for sure give them a lot longer time frame than you think it's actually going to take you because here's what I've learned with doing stuff. Something always goes wrong.
Something happens. Something sidetracks.
It's always some silly thing. You're you know you broke something in your shop.
Now you got to wait a week for a new thing to come in. There's always those weird things that end up happening that kind of push that time frame out. Maybe I if you are making mistakes, you know, a lot of times those kind of work out the more you make things and that become as big of a problem. But a lot of the times there's always just some something silly that happens that ends up making that time frame go even longer. What I have found to be the best thing, and this is true of a lot of things in life, is just really open and frequent communication of what's going on with the project. And depending on the client you're working for, they may or may not be that interested in the process. But if they have any inkling of interest in what's going on, send them updates so they know where things are at. Because I think the biggest issue that you're gonna have working for people is them thinking that you're not working on their project. That it's sitting there in the corner, nothing's happening, you're gonna run off in the night and never talk to them again and take their money. Being able to give them those updates to be like, "Okay, here's where things are at. This is what I'm working through. Here's where things are." I think that helps to build some excitement for that thing because they are excited and they're anticipating that awesome thing that you're making for them. And the that's kind of one of the selling points of being a smaller maker is that you were right there and they can actually be like, "Okay, this guy's actually making this thing right there in his shop and I can see the progression and I can see what I'm paying for." Because you're probably going to be more expensive than a store-bought piece of furniture anyway.
And one of the things that you can do as a really easy value ad is to show them that like you were literally walking through the entire process of making this thing and you can kind of gauge what their interest level is of how much you want to share. But I find that just having some frequent update to get them excited and to show them that added value of working with you can go miles and miles if something happens that pushes out the time frame because they're kind of there with you and they understand a lot more and they're more willing to kind of go along with that longer time frame because they know what happened >> and they know you're actually working on that thing.
>> It's funny that is exactly how the wood whisperer started. Uh, I started by doing commissions and I wanted a way to keep customers aware of what was going on to let them know why this is taking so long, why it costs so much and I wanted to document that process for them. And then obviously it turned out to be teaching woodworkers was definitely like easier and and more uh fruitful, let's say, >> less wingier, >> much less wing. Yeah. Um, funny thing is I think like a lot of times honesty helps here too. Um, in talking to them and saying, "Listen, I'm a very small one-man shop." Um, oftent times, you know, as you know, I'm building this thing custom for you. That takes time.
So, I'm going to give you an estimate of about 6 weeks, but I do want to warn you ahead of time that it can and usually does take longer. If everything goes perfect, I might hit that deadline, but I'll give you updates. I'll let you know where we're at. And if it takes longer, my apologies. But as a oneman shop, this is just how it goes. And I think they're going to be okay with that because they went to you for a reason, you know, to get this custom thing made by you.
They're probably willing to wait for it.
But I think Matt, brilliant point, letting them know that you are continuously working on it. Nothing is worse than thinking your project is being ignored and you've already put the deposit down, >> right?
>> It's on the back burner somewhere. He's not even working on thinking about it.
>> Yeah. But the fact that you are, it really increases the value of what they're paying for because it's like, man, he contacted us at least once a week for three months with these little updates and each one we get more and more excited and more excited. It's hard to get mad at that person because they're very clearly continuing to work on it and updating you. So that's that's your out.
>> And I find too that if you're excited about it, they'll be excited about it.
>> Yeah. Like that's kind of fun. Like we're all out here in our shops trying to be excited about the things we're making and we typing with that person that's going to own that thing for the rest of their lives.
>> Yeah.
>> Be like, "Look, I'm super excited about this weird piece of grain right here.
You're going to see this every day.
>> I'm really excited for you to have this done in your house and you can see this cool grain section here. I I chose this cool rail because I like this little bit right here." Share that with them and that's just going to elevate that piece.
>> Yeah. in their mind and like the again like that's really low cost added value.
>> Yeah. I give you another example too.
I'm building this table for my buddy uh and I do send them periodic updates.
Well, I got all the tabletop uh boards together and that that lot that I got wasn't great and I was making the best of it and there were two boards that were kind of problematic and I said, "All right, here's our choices and I would flip them. Some had a little bit of sap. So, it's like we're either going to get sap where we don't want it or this side has two or three pronounced knots. So, we're at this point where I'm just like, uh, unfortunately, it's either this or I'm going back to buy more wood, which I really don't want to do, but if I have to, if it's right for the piece, and it was a conversation that took place where it's like, well, you know, this is kind of our lifetime dining room table, you know, if if it's a little bit more work and a little bit more money to get those two boards replaced, go ahead and do it. And that's that's how I spent my week last week was going to buy two more boards, milling them down, getting them into the mix.
And now the final product is better for it, but it was communication with the customer. In this case, it's a friend that gets them what they want and they feel involved. And now the next thing is we need to talk about the undervil. So I'm not making that decision for them.
I'm going to make two or three little small samples and show them what that looks like on an inch and a half thick top. So again, they're making the decision. they own the decision, but I'm, you know, kind of leaning them toward things that I know I'm capable of doing or that I think are within the realm of what looks good. Um, but it's that constant communication that helps them feel valued even though this thing is taking way longer. It's a different thing when you ask me to do something, especially like they know what I do.
They know it's going to take a long time. Um, but the but it's taking longer than I was hoping. Um, but you know, like you said, the updates the updates are everything with something like this.
>> Good advice, Matt. Thank you. Well done, Matt. Good job. Uh, this is from Neil.
He says, "I was able to take some pole barn uh, post off cuts off a job and figured I would turn them into a hefty workbench. Their original size was 5 1/2 by 7 and 1/4 by 80 in. They're finger jointed southern yellow pine. I ran them through my planer, laminated together, and made a router sled to flatten each side. I now have a slab that's six and a quarter inches thick, 37 inches wide, and 80 inches long.
>> Holy crap. Oh, dude.
>> Yeah. My question is, how thick can this top be to still be able to mount vices, bench dogs, and hold fast?
>> I thought his question was going to be my my question is, how do I move it?
>> Yeah. How do I Right. Um, well, that's actually kind of key, Mark, because if if I were to tell you, Emil, oh, that's too thick. Like I wouldn't wish that on my my worst enemy. Like now you have to take this giant thing you've glued together. Um and it's it's you know well I mean you got your router sled. You could reduce it down but don't bother man. Um >> yeah come see me. I'll put it on my band saw and we'll resaw it.
>> Heck yeah. He's got it though. He's got five.
>> You've got the material for a shelf.
>> The sawmill but yeah but yes.
>> I was hoping your new saw could take that.
>> Oh gosh.
The the only issue with a thicker top is the ability for hold fast to grasp it.
Bench dogs, no big deal. Just make longer bench dogs. You know, as long as you've got a drill that can drill through that, um, not a problem. Make longer bench dogs. Go and buy a bunch of dowel stock. You'll be fine. Bench vices, frankly, the thicker the top, the greater the reference surface you've got on the back of that. What do we call that? Just the bench front. You know, you've got the chop and the chop presses against the bench front. So, if it's a leg vise, if it's a face vice, um yeah, you just got a wider reference surface there. Most vices like that uh require you to do some sort of inlay into the front of the bench if it's a a bench vice or something. Not a big deal. It all comes down to hold fasts. And hold fasts can be simply that problem with a thick bench being too thick is the the the camming action on a hold fast can't get the grip because you've got too much material that it's that it's traveling through. So, by counterbing on the underside. So, say you're you're going to do 3/4 inch dog holes and you want 3/4 inch hold fast. Your hold fasts are not going to be 3/4 in. They'll probably be a 16th or an eighth of an inch uh narrower than the hole itself. But if you were to drill a 3-inch dog hole and then counterbore on the underside, maybe one inch, one and a quarter inches through about half the bench thickness, now you really just have whatever 3 and 1/8 in of thickness that your whole fast has to cam through. I don't think I would even counterbore it that much. Uh I've got uh just under 5 in thick top. I didn't do counterbes on mine and I don't have problems with my hold fast working.
Well, my rot hold fast fast. My tools for working wood hold fast. Those sometimes have a little bit of problem.
I could stand a counterbore there. But yeah, that problem is immediately solved by that slight counterbore on the back side. And you're not going to regret the extra mass of that 6 and 1/4 in thickness, the extra face reference on the vise. You're going to love that.
>> The only thing I would ask you to possibly consider, and the power tool woodworkers here might disagree with me, but 37 in is pretty wide for a bench.
you can't really reach across that effectively when you're working at it.
So, that ends up becoming really useless space. Um, you know, you could and and that's why I think a lot of old workbenches had the tool well back there cuz it was an area that was far enough away that you couldn't really do anything. Think about reaching out over your bench and doing some operation 30 in away from you. Uh, a that's really tiring on your low back. You lose like all sense of accuracy when you're extended way out over your bench like that. I don't I mean, what what would you do with that, I guess, is the question. If you were to first of all, can you rip off 6 and 1/4 in thickness from from your benchtop? But, I mean, my bench is 25 in wide. Um, and I really don't need if I had extra space, crap would just pile up on it, frankly.
>> So, that's the only thing I would say is you might you could potentially lose 10 inches from that width.
>> What could you do with a 10inch beam?
The only thing I could think that would be really handy for something like that is if you had a need or desire to have different types of workholding and devices where you could almost have different stations around the bench, right?
>> Set the bench in the middle of the room and work >> and now like you want some kind of pattern makers vice and then you want a leg vise on one side and you could actually two sides of the bench that you could approach it. That would be neat.
But otherwise, a 37inch wide bench is I mean, it sucks to lose that, but at the same time, bigger is not always better.
>> It's just a question of like if you were to saw that 10 in off, I mean, do you have legs for your bench?
>> There you go. There's your leg.
>> There your legs, you know, or or you know, you could make a leg vice chop out of it. You could make a you know, um a saw bench out of it. That would be hefty as all get out.
>> So, I don't know. I mean, I I agree with Mark in that respect. I do that on my bench. My bench is right smack in the middle of the shop. I have a sliding leg vise on one side and a mounted, you know, fixed leg vise on the other. Uh I will often set like a shooting board or when I pull out the miter box from time to times, I'll clamp it in that vise on the other side. Uh when I use my um what's that thing called? The joint maker pro. I'll set that up on the other side of the bench because I don't want it in the way of where I'm planing and all that stuff. So, yeah, that's that's but that's another reason to just place your workbench in the center of the space. I still do that with a 25inch workbench.
>> Nice. All right. Well, that's going to do it for us today, guys. Uh remember, this show is made possible by the generous contributions of our patrons at patreon.com/woodtalk as well as our friends at Woodcraft.
There's always something cool going down at your local store, so make sure you check that website at woodcraft.com. And Matt is going to tell you about some upcoming events and sales, discounts, >> sales, sales, sales, >> money saving stuff.
Here are some July deals for you.
There's 15% off all off Crown M 42 cryo turning tools. So get your wood turning on. 40% off Wood River toggle clamps for all your jig making needs. All them jigs you be doing. And select sizes of wood.
40% off Brazilian cherry katoba 40% off paduk and 40% off gabone ebony turning stock >> and there's always something names Matt >> for what which one >> all of them I just >> terampus soyaxi >> velociapus soyaki blah blah blah what that says >> I mean struggles with so I just wanted to see him do that >> uh divide >> correct Correct. Was that right? Okay.
Uh, >> don't tell me how to do my job.
>> Yeah, seriously. He knows what he's doing. Leave him alone.
>> I have experience. I have been doing this for years.
>> Extensive experience.
>> Oh my goodness. There's always something going on down at your local woodcraft store. You can head over to the uh the store locator to look up your store and see what's going on there. I thought I would pull one out here and tell you about one cool looking class. This is at the Colorado Springs store, the wood turning 101 with Raleigh Lockheart.
They're they're doing an amazing apple project that is September 12th from 10 to 4:30. And it's literally you're going to turn an apple and there's like a stem on it. And it was like >> that's cool.
>> It looks like a real straightup apple.
It seemed really interesting to me to be able to make this red delicious looking apple >> on the lathe.
>> The worst of the apples, by the way.
>> I know it's the worst, but it looks the best for some reason. And you know, while while you're in Colorado Springs, go go ask to to meet the store owner and look at his tattoos.
>> Yeah. Well, Matt strategically picked these based on people we liked that we met at the uh at the show. So, >> he will show you his tattoos.
>> The the owner of the Colorado Springs store is a super cool dude.
>> See who we pick next time.
>> Yeah, you never know.
>> You never know who I'm going to choose next time.
>> Okay. Was that it?
>> That was it.
>> All right. Hey, before I end the show, guys, I want to tell you a story. I I meant to say this earlier, but uh I don't know if the person listens. I don't want to embarrass somebody, but this is mostly about my wife. At the open house, we had a bunch of woodworkers show up, right? And one of the schools that Matteo attended, a private school for a time, has a great makers program. And the uh guy that runs it, super nice guy, right? So, we still, even though he doesn't go to that school anymore, we still maintain contact with some of the folks there. And he stopped by and Nicole was giving him the tour.
And later on, I was saying hi to him. We had a conversation and in his hand is a box, a little small box, a couple boxes with a one-way chuck on the label. And I'm thinking to myself, he didn't come in with that. And the only thing I could think is that Nicole, while giving him the tour, used an old box from my Chuck and put some little knickknacks in it for him to take home. That's what happened here. Even with a wood chuck, wood turning chuck. I just >> That's what you take from this.
>> Is that seriously that's the problem with where this is going? I mean, yeah, a little bit. I'm like, I didn't think you would have that. Okay. Uh, >> we'll get there. Uh, >> could be empty boxes someone else gave you something in?
>> It could be. So, I can't address this directly cuz I can't be like, "Hey, what you got in that box?" Like, it would have been weird, right? So then after the event is done, I actually forgot about it and then it came up later in the conversation and I was like, "So what, by the way, what was that? Like did you fill that with something?" He goes, "No, no, I just they got a new lathe at the school and he said he was, you know, in the market, needed a chuck and uh I saw this one there and you you don't use it." And I was like, "What did you do?" Like I I Yeah, I know I don't use it regularly. There's a lot of things in my shop that I don't use regularly. I don't want you getting rid of my grinder or some of my like heavy duty drills that I use for drilling into concrete and things that I don't do that often, but I still know I own the tool and it's mine. And I was like, Nicole, what do you what did you do? So, we had this situation where she had to like sheepishly go back and say, "Oops." And I got my chuck back. But it was such a weird And look, it's my wife. What am I going to do? But it felt like such a weird violation of my stuff. Like, can you imagine? Would your wives ever do that? Go into your shop, pick out a random thing that they go, "Well, he doesn't use this." And give it to someone.
>> I don't I can't imagine my wife going in my shop.
>> I was going to say the same thing.
>> I don't know. It's like a room that doesn't exist.
>> I guess the problem is we work in the same place, so she's there. She's in the shop all the time. But it was it was the strangest experience for me, and I apologize to Doc. That's what we call him, uh, for for having put him in that position, but he came and returned it.
We had a great conversation. There's no hard feelings. And you totally understood. But I was just like, Nicole, please don't ever give away my tools.
Like, I don't care. I don't care how often I use it.
>> It's mine. I'll decide when I give it away.
>> I think I want to let him keep it. I think Yeah, but I have trouble sending food back at restaurants. So, >> Oh, yeah. I'd be so awkward.
>> I'd be like, "Yeah, I'll buy another one."
>> Well, the only reason the only reason I let it happen was cuz she had to tell him to to bring it back. I wouldn't have done it. I absolutely if it was up to me to tell him. No, no, no, no, no. And I also do not send food back at restaurants.
>> Nicole, Nicole is the actual, you know, CIO, COO, CEO of the Wood Resper. Mark's just on-screen talent. So, >> yeah, something like that.
>> Business decisions get made there. I just thought it was the most hilarious interaction and misunderstanding that I don't know how after 20 years of running this business together. How she got to a point that giving away something of mine like that was on on the menu. How was that on the menu? I don't know.
>> I mean, I would have given away anything turning related.
>> You would have done it just to be a jerk. That's a different story. Like >> I'm here at your open house. Everybody take whatever you want. Hey, in fact, there's a whole Laguna lathe here. If anyone has the capacity, you could take that, too. Just It's in his way. I mean, >> got to blow the 3 in of dust off.
>> It's in his way. It's just in his way.
He doesn't need it. Oh, man. Anyway, thought it was a funny story. Maybe someone can relate to their significant other giving away or selling their stuff.
>> I mean, I I can relate in her throwing my stuff away.
>> Yeah.
>> That she says I don't use.
>> Okay. All right. Fair enough.
>> That's not Nothing is in the shop, though. It's like stuff that I had like out in storage from like when we moved that haven't opened since we moved.
>> I feel like maybe that's an equivalent thing, you know, because >> old old shorts.
>> Well, >> or t-shirts or something, >> right? It's time for these to go. You've been, you know, >> they've been around long enough they're practically falling off.
>> Well, her favorite thing is like she just throw things away and then most of the time I don't notice, which is true.
>> Mhm.
>> So, there's that.
>> See, I have to take up the other side of the equation in this. I'm the one throwing stuff out in this household.
Yeah, >> I'm the one hoping that someone doesn't notice that that's gone. Yeah, I I minimalist stage apparently.
>> There you go.
>> Well, this is this is good. So, folks, you know, if you if you want to be part of the show and maybe you're just embarrassed to be on the show, you can always email Nicole and ask her what she's willing to give you from Mark Shop.
>> Yeah, we got a great way.
>> We we all kinds of giveaways. It's the new unofficial giveaway. email and a glue roller and a hat.
>> Perfect. Perfect.
>> You know, the funny thing was I actually was getting rid of a bunch of stuff as I was prepping for the open house. I identified like a hundred things that I didn't need. And I'm like, look, if I can sell these things for just pennies on the dollar and just get them out tonight, that's not what it was about, but why not do that? So, my whole assembly table was loaded with stuff that I was trying to to to give give away or sell very cheaply. You know what wasn't on there? A lathe chuck.
>> You know what should have been on there?
A lathe chuck.
>> Clearly a lathe chuck should have >> some turning tools and a lathe.
>> Yeah, that whole lathe.
>> Yeah, put the whole lathe on the table.
That's good. Anyway, Shann and I interrupted you. You can finish.
>> No, no, no. I'm just letting people know. Another call to action. Send in more details about why you hate Mark.
And if you want some of his tools, don't go to Mark.
>> That's the craziest thing your significant other has thrown away of yours. This is definitely the route to Mark's Tools is through Nicole apparently.
>> 100%. Like totally. Anyway, all right.
Well, thank you for listening everybody.
We're going to see you next time.
>> See you. Bye.
>> Goodbye.
>> Bye-bye.
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