7. How not to turn ISKCON into a Religion - part-7

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:27]Krishna, can you hear my voice? Am I audible? Is my voice audible? Okay, let's start.

[00:00:59]Hrishna Hrishna Krishna Krishna H Krishna. So thank you all very much for joining today's session. We have been discussing from uh the fourth kanto 20th chapter and uh the supreme lord has been instructing rutumaharaj about how to rule his citizens. One of the points that he makes is rule the citizens by following the dharma which has been handed over to you in your family lineage but provided it is um approved by the brahmans. So in this context only we have been discussing from this article very profound article uh by his holiness Bakti Vigyan Gowami Maharaj uh presenting uh on the theme of how to prevent isan from becoming a religion. So in this context we have been discussing the problems of uh you know what is religion? What is the problem of becoming a religion? What is the difference between a spiritual movement and a religious institution? What are the problems with a religious institution? And in comparison how does uh you know a spiritual a spiritually vibrant moment how does it look like?

[00:02:30]and a stale dogmatic religious institution how how it looks like and all those things we have we have been discussing in the last uh many days now so I'll do a quick recap of what we saw yesterday alone because the other recaps we have done sufficient number of times so uh so uh what is the attitude towards rules and restrictions s okay of the religious minded and the spiritual spiritually inspired people.

[00:03:09]Um we saw that uh the religious people often display fanaticism in following rules, cluttering their lives with meaningless regulations, assigning divine will to every trivial ritual. One example is pandawadashi. Propad never spoke about pandaladashi. None of these akadashi Mahatma stories which are so popular you know in all WhatsApp groups people are making videos you know it's all not for us at all you know where did all of this come from you know dead I mean of course they are there in the piranhas but not every puranic story is meant for uh devotees have you ever heard shil prahuad write about any of these akadeshi mahatma stories in any of his writings speak about them never you know but these things are all because the karmakandandy mentality is so strong deep rooted you know we somehow uh integrate them so you know powerfully in our own system so this whole pandadashi and all that this akadishi maha stories Gita Maha stories you Um all these stories are not exactly pure devotional but u we have some uh very strong attachment to certain ritualistic followings and those things which come and especially those ritualistic followings which promise some immediate benefit which promise some immediate benefit you know we we immediately get attracted to those things.

[00:04:58]So but those serious about spiritual practice first seek to understand the purpose of the rules distinguishing the principles from details. So this is one thing. So the nyamagraha attitude is very strongly seen in the religious uh minded people whereas the spiritual people try to understand what is the underlying um mood or the principle behind this whole thing.

[00:05:28]Then attitude towards peers we saw in the religious-minded people uh because they idolize uh you know those who are on the institutional ladder or you know their spiritual master they see peers as competitors. Whoever gets more time and association of that higher authority whether it may be the spiritual master or the temple president they feel very insecure. uh oh I am missing out because they want to be the next person on the institutional ladder. So they feel very insecure so they try to elbow everyone aside and strive to gain favor etc. On the contrary spiritual uh those with a spiritual attitude they view equals as friends and companions. Okay. and their good qualities inspires uh their good qualities uh inspires them supports them to move forward in their own spiritual life. Even if they may have some difference of opinion, it does not create insecurities. It does not frighten them.

[00:06:37]Uh like that and towards attitude towards science. Uh so uh the religious-minded people have two very polarizing attitude towards science.

[00:06:50]Okay. Which is born out of insecurity.

[00:06:52]First thing they feel very insecure of science. Okay. Because science is very popular. So uh uh they feel very threatened when when science presents something which is against the principles which they are following against their understanding.

[00:07:12]uh they become they they feel very insecure. Uh why that insecurity?

[00:07:18]Because they don't have sufficient faith in their acharas. They don't have sufficient faith in their acharas. Therefore they are insecure when science finds out or comes up with a invention or a discovery which actually threatens their very understanding of uh their world view. Huh.

[00:07:42]And at the same time so they speak very [Music] uh very they they're very much in interested in criticizing science because of insecurity. And at the same time when the same science comes up with some invention which supports their dogma then they feel very they feel very excited. Whereas the the spiritual the truly spiritual people they are neither threatened nor so excited uh with anything that happens with science because they know the very foundation of science is uh is kind of a material speculation and science cannot enter into the realm of spirituality.

[00:08:27]They know that there is no undue insecurity. They don't feel threatened when science comes up with something which may be different from the understanding of their acharas. Um and uh they don't get so excited when science finds out oh the through these aerial pictures you do see clearly a bridge between Ramsheshwaram and Sri Lanka. Oh this really proves that you know the Ram Setu does exist and all that. It's not like you know it's like a really they get very excited about it.

[00:09:01]It's okay. You know our acharas have told what I mean that pana is very strong in them that whether it supports science supports that pmanana or not you know they don't get excited honestly. So in today's day and age you you do see many things you know when modern science finds out something which uh which actually is confirming our own understanding many people get super excited about it. Okay I mean why to get so excited our acharas have mentioned it whether science confirms it or not why should it bother us so much so much. So the religious people who do not have sufficient faith they will not openly admit it but within or they may not even realize that they themselves don't possess that kind of faith in their acharas but somehow uh they feel so excited when science comes up with such a thing but shall praupad was never afraid to engage in discussions with scientists and never relied on dubious scientific arguments to prove his points. Okay. He emphasized that we must learn to speak to the scientists in their language but at the same time without carrying favor with them he wanted us to present the philosophy of Krishna consciousness on its own. This is one of the purposes of bactanta institute. hand. What about the attitude towards other religions for a religious minded person and a spiritual person? Uh religious people are very very you know kind of like we only we only you know that that insecurity is very strong that they want to know that theirs is the best and and they they and they're very much interested in that you know often times you see our own devotees you know every time in Bhagatam class they have to speak comparing their own uh practices the vic practices with uh um the vic practices with the Abrahamic religions. If they don't make such a comparison that Bhagatam class is like uh incomplete just like a south Indian's meal is incomplete without curd rice they feel that their bodatam class feels completely incomplete if they don't make a comparison between the vic religion and the Abrahamic religions as if they have they have a PhD in Abrahamic religion. And they have very clearly and uh nicely understood uh you know whatever it is. So they feel actually threatened. Uh they have a very fanatic attitude against other religions. Unfortunately preachers sometimes also attempt to prove the superiority of Krishna consciousness by denouncing other religions. This form of apologetics or defending a religious dogma may inspire religiously minded individuals but it often repels spiritual speakers of the truth. See often times you see you know such kind of things attracts one kind of people but it repels other kinds of people you know.

[00:12:34]But unfortunately seeing the percentage of people who get attracted to these things, it looks like there may be more and more of religious-minded people than actual spiritual seekers even within Iskan. You know, you speak about you give a class uh comparing uh Daraj one class which talks about Dharaj's prayers. Okay. And parallelly there is another class by an equally you know um uh very powerful speaker who speaks about you know the differential differences between the vic religion and the Abrahamic religions. Okay there are two parallel classes happening.

[00:13:27]Okay. In which class do you think there will be a huge crowd? In which class do you think there will be a huge crowd? Uh the one in which Darat's prayers is being discussed or the other in which uh the difference between the Vic religion and the Abrahamic religion is being discussed.

[00:13:49]Which do you think in your opinion there will be you know huge crowd right?

[00:13:55]Definitely you know this is a no-brainer probably the Darat prayers there will be hardly one or two people sitting the other will be like flooding with devotees right so that's the point so people really want that they want to hear again and again and again how theirs are best the others are worse because of that inherent insecurity within their So um okay Kalani prahu says apologetics are an official division of Christian religion staffed by experts to defend the truth scientifically. You know how science exactly aligns with you know the the Christian religion like that. So for us also unfortunately it is sadly true that we have the same tendencies. We so much look for signs to confirm what we are following. I mean that's very sad you know especially when we know if you look at the history of science science has you know kind of uh uh you know every theory has come uh and every theory has gone out you know in the history of science you know uh no theory has really successfully stood the test of time and it's not that uh something nonscientific or a religious or a spiritual movement has come and disproved it. The very same scientific theories have come and disproved uh the other the the previous scientific theories. So but they feel like uh this form of apologetics or defending a religious dogma may inspire the religiously minded individuals but it often repels spiritual seekers of the truth. Those focused on the principles and laws of spiritual science easily discerned how these universal laws manifest in the teachings of the other religions and distinguished them from recently introduced historical compromises.

[00:16:12]So um see actually if you if you see uh a sincere spiritual practitioner of one religion can identify a sincere practitioner of other religion. They'll not be dogmatic to see generalization generalization is a very common [Music] um common trait in people who are very shallow and fanatic and insecure. So generalization is a common trait that you will see in people who are shallow whose knowledge is very shallow.

[00:17:03]Okay. Or they are very fanatic and who are very insecure because that's the easiest way of actually pushing out um uh you know feeling secure. You you know you generalize and kind of push it out of the window so that you feel very secure. So all Muslims are like this.

[00:17:28]All Christians are like this. All Abrahamic religions are like this. Okay.

[00:17:34]So like that gross generalization where you don't even try to understand. Okay.

[00:17:39]He could be a very sincere follower of his religion. We cannot see because we ourselves are not very sincere followers of our faith. So therefore biotakur presented this idea most beautifully.

[00:17:53]If one goes to someone else's place of worship, one should think, "Oh, these people are worshiping these people are worshiping my Lord." Uh, these people are worshiping my Lord. But in a different way. Because of my different training, I cannot quite comprehend this system of worship.

[00:18:20]Because of my different training, I cannot quite comprehend this system of worship. However, through this experience, I can deepen my appreciation for my own system of worship. So, uh I I think I have shared this uh I have shared this in uh um in one of the sessions before.

[00:18:50]Once I think it was 2005 or something uh south India yatra where his holiness Rahanati Maharaj had taken uh his disciples on South India they went to Shirangam Kiuram and all those places.

[00:19:09]So where Maharaj exclusively spoke many many stories from the Sashna samradaya uh you know of the many Srio acharas the the the guru disciple relationship and so many such things and it was very very inspiring many of the devotees were hearing those fantastic stories for the first time and it was so inspiring and one of Maharaj's disciples asked Maharaj Maharaj this So such an amazing you know stories and such amazing tradition and these narrations are so heart rendering you know like uh what is the take-home message what is the take-home message something like that so Maharaj said the greatest take-home message from all these stories is that we hear these stories and See how chastly uh uh the disciples of the sambra were attached to their own guru and their sraaya. Okay. So that is the inspiration that we take and in the same way we remain chastely attached to our own sraaya and our own gurus. That is the take-home message. Okay.

[00:20:38]So uh that is the take-h home message because there is always a thing you know you may think that oh the other sraaya is better but he says that the the the real take-home message is look at the chastity of um chastity of their disciples. Okay. So they feel very chastely attached to their own guru and sraaya. Similarly, we should be chastely attached to our own gurus and our sraayas. Okay, that is what said. So, if one goes to someone else's place of worship, one should think the people are worshiping my lord but in a different way. Because of my different training, I cannot quite comprehend this system of worship.

[00:21:25]However, even though this exper through this experience, I can deepen my appreciation for my own system of worship. The Lord is only one, not two.

[00:21:39]I offer respect to the form I see here and I pray to the Lord in this new form that he increases my love for the Lord in his accustomed form. In my accustomed form actually it should be okay.

[00:21:55]So they say oh uh I when I come to this place of worship I pray to the lord who is in a different form I pray to him that he increases my attachment to the lord of my love.

[00:22:12]Okay. So those who do not follow this procedure but instead criticize other systems of worship and show hatred, violence and envy are worthless and foolish. The more they indulge in useless quarreling, the more they betray the very goal of their religion. Often times people think that um bashing the Abrahamic religions or any other religions is actually spiritual talk.

[00:22:44]I mean honestly honestly people think like this if devotees come together and discuss about Christian conversion, Islamic conversion, how the Muslim population is increasing in this world, people honestly feel that this is actually a spiritual discussion. Okay?

[00:23:05]Or if they come and speak about you know the great things the government is doing in stopping all these things and they think that it is actually a spiritual discussion. Okay. But the reality says something like that it is mentioned. Okay.

[00:23:41]So one who either glorifies or criticizes the material qual qualities and qualifications of other people very soon they get distracted from attaining their goal. And the next thing is what is their attitude towards apostates? Those who may have been a part of the organization but after some time they leave or they they leave they give up the spiritual practice or they give up uh the institution and go to some other institution.

[00:24:19]Okay. because of severe sense of insecurity. They keep uh criticizing them rather than feeling compassionate, rather than wanting to understand what is it that I would have done which would have pushed him out of the association of devotees, we we end up starting criticizing them. Okay. So that is also born out of insecurity. Like yesterday I shared the example where you know if some brahmachari chooses to not not leave the organization but you know choose to move on from brahmachari asham to grasa asham there is public shaming you know like he is brought in front and says okay list down all the mistakes that you made because of which you know you are having this fall down you know you're living the association of the greatest saints which have ever graced this planet earth and going to the world of fallen people you know like that. So that way what happens someone naturally does not have a feeling of uh you know uh you know once he realizes after 3 4 5 years that I am not cut out for this I would be more peacefully be able to practice Krishna consciousness as a grahastar such a person feels tremendously uh scared uh to to to present it because he knows that what would follow would be public humili humiliation and a kind of unspoken ostracization I mean at least I'm not telling that this is there in all the uh uh ashams but in some of the ashams it is there so so this kind of attitude towards apostates whether the apostate is the one who is leaving there leaving Iskan or it may be leaving the asham or whatever it may be Okay.

[00:26:29]So leaders believe that they must denounce defectors to protect their own fragile faith as well as that of their followers in order to maintain the followers loyalty to the exclusivity and infallibility of their chosen path. Detailed public blametorming of the traitors is often held as warnings to those who stay.

[00:26:53]In contrast, sincere seekers of truth approach those who have left with compassion. They strive to understand the problem and find ways to help them to return to the spiritual practice or at least maintain a favorable attitude towards God. I mean there are uh many of Shilapra's disciples who are very close to Shilapraad. You will see their names coming in the from beginning to end of the uh praad liam. Many of them left is gone. Okay. Uh some left even when praad was there. Some left after uh praupad left.

[00:27:39]Um of course many of them were criticized. Okay. But many criticized them but some very mature deep uh personalities they somehow kept in touch with them maintained a very cordial friendly compassionate relationship and very slowly brought them back within the fold of Shilapraad shelter.

[00:28:10]only this could happen only because they were compassionately disposed towards those who left. So like that and another thing is attitude towards formal initiation. So for in a religious minded person this initiation is all in all and they give so much importance to initiation that someone if they see that oh he's not initiated then immediately they they feel that he must not be very advanced when people are expected to take time and evaluate often times in my own personal experience uh I don't see any statistical consistency in in the across the world I have seen people who have taken a long time to take initiation and people who have very quickly taken initiation.

[00:29:16]uh I don't have a very statistically consistent uh data in my own observation to see that those who took long time to take initiation were necessarily less sincere in their spiritual pursuits.

[00:29:31]Rather I would say many times such people turned out to be very very thoughtful and once they they really thought and they they really took initiation very seriously once they got initiated.

[00:29:48]So uh on the other hand often times I have seen people who quickly get initiated don't really understand the um the real depth of what initiation is, what a guru is, what is expected of a disciple, what are the qualifications of a guru, what are the qualifications of a disciple. Often times uh you don't see that.

[00:30:15]So this is the problem when diksha is overemphasized and siksha is hardly doesn't matter. So uh so that's the problem. So uh someone is genuinely waiting looking for uh uh you know uh seeing who would be that compatible spiritual master from whom I can seek uh you know uh from whom I can seek guidance. You know some different people have different needs. Some of them they do have a need for a more personal uh guidance. So, so they do wait to evaluate who would be that person and who understands my um my nature and who would fulfill my needs uh and uh you know whom I'm inspired to hear from and things like that.

[00:31:15]So they do take time whereas the other people many of them it's just like herd mentality.

[00:31:23]Suddenly they come and okay you are in this geographical zone and you take initiation from this uh guru only and everyone says and without even knowing uh suddenly someone says okay today you are getting initiated and they get initiated. Okay. So this uh inordinate emphasis on dika and not so much understanding of the importance of sika.

[00:31:48]Uh this is often times seen in the people who are religious minded. Uh but the uh spiritually disposed devotees they very clearly understand that dika without sika is practically lifeless.

[00:32:09]Uh so uh Shil Praad was initiated 11 years after meeting a spiritual master. Bakti Siddhand says a devotey from birth was initiated at the age of 27 and in iskan a bakta who is not initiated within 3 years of meeting theas is considered backward.

[00:32:31]The rush for dika is often motivated by the need of formal recognition of our choseness.

[00:32:40]Okay. Besides the spiritual teacher at the moment of initiation takes upon himself all the sins of the disciple.

[00:32:47]That's what they feel. So there is a need to be in a hurry. Obsession with the magic of dika and virtual defeation of the dika guru deification.

[00:33:00]Sorry. Deification of the diksha guru leads to a downplaying of the role of sika and creates a host of problems that remain unsolved. And you see clearly you know all this you know mass uh you know people you know end mass losing faith and leaving is gone. you know it can all be traced to you know overemphasis on dika and almost not so much emphasis on sa so therefore when the dika guru leaves then everyone feels that I have lost you know my spiritual life is gone because hardly they don't they're not properly educated that you know you can take siksha you know or para is a sika parumpara so even if there may be some not so pleasant uh things with the dika guru the parumpara can still continue it's a sika parumpara okay like that so then there is parallel value systems that's the next point that we saw you know what is the um uh the declared value system and the actual value system the declared value system is what the bhagawatam speaks everyone seems to agree upon that but when you see the actual value system. Um you know uh you know the declared value system is genuine spiritual experiences manifested through detachment from matter, genuine compassion, everything that is given in the Bhagwatam Bhagat Gita. But in actual system uh the status and wealth take precedence. In the declared system, the level of spiritual development is measured by the intensity of practice and the depth of spiritual knowledge. in the actual system. It is gauged by one's rank in the organizational hierarchy and how close you are to spiritual leaders. Okay.

[00:35:06]Frequently while humility is extolled from the high pulpits, those who bring more money to the organization or excel in management are rewarded, glorified and encouraged. Countless example examples can be cited. Thus organization, organized religion breeds hypocrisy. You know what is spoken and what actually happens. Uh there's a big difference. Okay. So this is where we ended our discussion yesterday. So now today let's start the sad consequences and how they could be avoided. So with this kind of a mentality if it if it is more and more there then what eventually it leads to what are the consequences of this kind of a mentality and how it can be avoided. That's the last part we are going to start today. Maraj says perhaps the most significant consequence of the religious approach is its almost inevitable result. What is that?

[00:36:17]Burnout. A person joins our society and accepts the prescribed rules of the game. Sooner or later, he attains a position within the community of devotees. He chants his rounds. He follows the principles. He serves and so on. His neck is adorned with a Brahmanana thread and the three strands of Tulsi beads while his heart harbors hope for the promised miracle. What is the promised miracle? Just to follow and all negative qualities will automatically vanish and uh spiritual practice will naturally become very very easy and pleasant. Okay. This is the promised this is the promise. Okay.

[00:37:03]So years pass. Years pass. All possible initiations have been received. All courses have been completed. Bakti bhakti va vanta bakti. All diplomas have been obtained. All the stories have been heard. But the taste for the holy name has not come.

[00:37:30]Unfortunately, someone with a religious mindset does not try to understand the reasons for this. Instead, he convinces himself, I just need to endure a little longer and the miracle will happen. I just have to push a little bit more. The miracle is just awaiting. Sometimes this stance is supported by quoting Shell Praad's words. Propad said just go on but go on what mechanically performing rituals reading books for the mandatory 20 minutes a day while suppressing the yawns you know so that you can put a tick on your sadena card that yes chanting japa on the way to work spending half of the Sunday program in the temple cafe or chatting with Friends, what else should I do? I am doing everything necessary. I'm chanting 16 rounds. I'm reading the books. I'm visiting the temple. Yet, the result stubbornly refuses to come.

[00:38:42]Meanwhile, negative emotions accumulate in such devotees heart. The Vishnavas who seemed saintly to them in the early days of their spiritual journey now appear as a gathering of hypocrites and misfits. They lose that respect on the same Vishnoas for whom they had great respect. Increasingly such practitioners commit offenses shifting responsibility for their lack of spiritual taste onto others. So they say, "Oh, the cause of my um uh the cause of my uh lack of spiritual taste is the community is gone. The spiritual master is the cause." Okay. Eventually the tension that has been building for years releases in a burst of accumulated dissatisfaction, anger and complaints.

[00:39:46]Why? Because of the religious mindset that either we accepted or it was it is what we you know kind of assimilated from our whatever from our association.

[00:40:08]The pretexts for such an outburst are plentiful. You may say, "Oh, inappropriate behavior of some senior devotees. They behaved like this."

[00:40:19]Quarrels among Vishnavas. You see, Vishnavas are quarreling. Doubts about the philosophy of Krishna consciousness sown by disappointed devotees. insinuations from a multi multitude of social media addicts, anti-cult speculations and more which have which give plenty of reasons for this kind of an outburst. One rough statistical survey in Russia revealed that the average duration of devotional practice is approximately 7 years.

[00:40:55]I will read again. One rough statistical survey in Russia revealed that the average duration of devotional service is approximately 7 years. This time frame is sufficient for the novelty and the sense of wonder to fade while accumulated disappointments and offenses rob a person of any taste for spiritual practice.

[00:41:19]accumulated disappointments and offenses. They rob a person of the spiritual of any taste. And when the initial enthusiasm fades, devotees often feel betrayed considering that they were deceived. Uh when the initial enthusiasm goes away, they feel, "Oh, I was deceived.

[00:41:48]I was deceived. However, in truth, such a person deceived himself by turning off his intelligence and surrendering his freedom because he didn't want a burdensome freedom. He wanted to put that responsibility on others. Okay? Now he's blaming others.

[00:42:11]Now who is asking you to do that? Okay.

[00:42:15]Why should someone do that? So, uh, no one is recommending that you give up your intelligence, turn off your intelligence and put the responsibility on others. Okay, that was a mistake on our side. So, of course, a part of the responsibility definitely lies with the leaders. We cannot deny this and that makes the pain even greater.

[00:42:46]It is likely that the Iscon leaders they trusted contributed to or did not prevent this selfdeception. Okay, they they either contributed to this selfdeception or they knew but they did not try to resolve uh or stop this selfdeception.

[00:43:11]We cannot deny this and that makes the pain even greater. It is likely that the Iscon leaders they trusted contributed to or did not prevent the self-deception. By placing improper emphasis in their preaching, they failed to teach such people the scientific foundation of Krishna consciousness rather than teaching the scientific foundation of Krishna consciousness.

[00:43:35]Many even in today's day day and age many people are involved in you know quick fix solutions in the form of you know so many things uh you know like astrology and things like that the the leaders themselves uh recommend uh rather than taking the time out to uh explain to them and give them time and uh uh spiritual nourishment.

[00:44:13]So leaving is gone may takes many forms. Sometimes having lost faith in the promises they received a person begins seeking other paths to easy salvation because you know the promises that Isan gave is not working. They might turn to Radhaund where they are promised enjoyment of rasa and ecstatic service in Siddha Surupa in this very life.

[00:44:44]Or they might simply stop being fanatical or harmonize their lives through practical vic success technologies. What are the practical vic success technologies? Can someone uh share some practical vic success technologies?

[00:45:10]Anyone? What are some gemstones? Okay.

[00:45:16]Yoga, ya. What else? Wearing some yantras.

[00:45:28]astrology or um parach karmas the chanting oh kawachas was to all these things okay they could turn to Christianity sometimes this may happen uh chakra healing and so many such things okay uh they could turn to Christianity with with its fewer demands and more guarant ies or start taking psychedelics or psychedelics or drugs or adopt shamanic practices or Buddhist practices. Others might get professional training as psychologists or make their living conducting Helinger constellations or past life regressions.

[00:46:15]People may do that. Each of these paths offer real miracles far more impressive than the sour grapes of Krishna consciousness.

[00:46:25]You say miracles, miracles, no miracles happen. You see, now I will be able to read your past life, you know, past life regression and all those things.

[00:46:39]So the most common and perhaps the saddest scenario however occurs when vayishnavas seeing no tangible results from their practice quietly lose faith in the possibility of success altogether they feel it's not possible I don't think success is possible recognizing the importance of spirituality they retain the lean least burdensome rituals performing them mechanically hoping for a miracle at the moment of death. So whatever is bare minimum needed spiritual practice they they only practice that much and hoping that okay at the time of death some miracle may happen. At best they faithfully attend the Sunday programs or temple programs respond to har Krishna with habitual ease wistfully observe the enthusiasm of newcomers and struggle to resist the temptation to dampen their fervor with a dose of cynicism. So when they see the newcomers being very very enthusiastic, they feel yeah maybe I should tell that this honeymoon time is very soon going to end.

[00:47:56]come back to real life. You know, not everything happens by chanting. Come back to reality. You know, like that. Sometimes they feel, "No, I should not be telling this. Let them experience it on their own." Like that.

[00:48:13]When the number of such passive believers with lifeless gazes accumulates, the revolutionary vibrant and pure Krishna consciousness movement transforms into yet another mundane religion. When more and more such devotees accumulate in an organization, when they start becoming um you know uh statistically significant then the vibrant spiritual movement starts becoming into uh a a mundane religion. We claim exclusivity but affect little change in people's real lives. Thus the grim observation of bacti siddhant saraswati takur is confirmed. The original purpose of the established churches of the world may not always be objectionable but no stable religious arrangement for instructing the masses has yet been successful.

[00:49:20]This is the problem. Okay. One way to safeguard is from degeneration is to simultaneously minimize the unconscious dogma creating factors that plague us while consistently emphasizing the rational foundation of the practice of Krishna consciousness. We have to say we have to emphasize you know whatever is the dogma creating source we have to stay away from that. It could be the various neoadic whatever you know uh and uh you know we have to consistently emphasize the rational foundation of the practice of Krishna consciousness. We thus affirm Krishna consciousness as a spiritual science rooted in universal principles.

[00:50:14]At the same time, it is crucial to not throw the baby out with the bath water by ensuring that Krishna consciousness does not devolve into dry philosophical speculation. Not that you remove all the devotional rituals also and make it into just dry philosophical speculation.

[00:50:40]We need to leave room for the living miracle of encountering the transcendental reality gradually. How uh the stage of anata transforms into nishta nishta into ai into bhava bhava into prema.

[00:50:56]It's a miracle but it's a very very gradual and often times painstakingly slow miracle.

[00:51:06]So and that happens by proper practice not just by philosophical speculation. We began this discussion by recalling Shilapraad's mission to systematically propagate spiritual knowledge to society at large and to educate all peoples in the techniques of spiritual life to check the imbalance of values in life and to achieve real unity and peace in this world. was the first of the seven uh purposes of Iskcon. He envisioned Iskcon as an institution that would achieve for the first time in human society a real peace and unity amongst the contending forces in the world today.

[00:51:50]This is what shell praad envisioned is instead despite its impressive accomplishments is today finds itself battling multiple organizations claiming to respect to represent the true ISCON. So there are multiple organizations say we are true iscon. We know this and we are uh facing it even within the official Iscon. There are alarming points of contention threatening to split threatening split not to mention the traditional tensions within the goat and other branches of the godishna samrada.

[00:52:34]absorbed in these disputes, we have nearly forgotten that Iskan's primary task is to achieve unity amongst the contending forces in the world today.

[00:52:52]Why did Sheila praupad hope that Iskan would not suffer the fate of the other religions with their endless schisms, disputes and struggles for dominance? One possible answer is that Shilapath founded Iskan on the universal principle of spiritual science. Propad thought that as long as this is at the center, Iskan will not face a similar uh what to say um end. In doing so, he strictly followed Shell Rupagos Swami who articulated these principles in his Bakti Samrit Sindu. The flawless logical and philosophical analysis presented by Rupag Gowami transformed bacti from abstract theological concepts into precise scientific terms. It enables us to identify and differentiate various forms and manifestations of bi and point the way to achieve their purest and most exalted form. Sudhabi or utama bakti.

[00:54:11]Essentially all deviations that risk turning is into a compromised religion can be categorized either as contamination by karma or worldly selfserving religiosity or by ghana religiosity driven by the desire for liberation. So all kinds of deviations are either due to the influence of karma or ghana. Mass religions through their long history in this world have absorbed a multitude of ideas, beliefs and prejudices catering to the needs of their members. They made compromises and concessions. You know this eventually happened. They made compromises and concessions lacking a clear conceptual framework to distinguish pure bacti from its hybrid forms. They canonized notions, practices and customs that deviated from the ideals of pure devotion. You know, I mean, I won't don't be surprised when within a few years many of the practices become actually canonized, you know, non-negotiable practices.

[00:55:24]Like on don't be surprised if all our pan is gone. Everyone on uh nursing ahatur dashi day they start chanting nursing a kawach okay or so many other such things right so many so-called vic or it may happen that in every iscon you know practically uh there will be a uh official temple astrologer official temple was expert you know who as a part of their Sunday program they can come and uh you know read their birth charts and all those things you know don't be surprised it may happen very soon we too can follow this path and allow the masses to exploit a spiritual movement for their own purpose thereby ending the absolute unconventional guidance of the bonafide spiritual teacher or we can strive to positively affirm confirm the need to keep the universal principles of spiritual science in Iscon laws, traditions, culture and organizational structures.

[00:56:42]Um, universal principles by definition are valid everywhere at all times. They are not a subject of dispute or arbitrary interpretations. Rather they provide grounds for respectful discussion amongst those who know the shastras and most importantly live according to them. Thus, if we set the goal of shaping our movement firmly on these principles, the first step would be to establish a culture of transparency for all leaders and a culture of respectful dialogue following strict rules of Vishnava as was the case in Lord Chaitanya's time. Let us sit and discuss. Let us sit and discuss.

[00:57:36]Let all leaders come together and discuss you know on these things. Then instead of accusing some leaders of hypocrisy and devian behind their backs, we will try to create effective and tactful feedback and peer review mechanisms for leaders that will allow them to adjust their behavior.

[00:58:00]Instead of banning discussion of sensitive and controversial topics and forcing thoughtful people to look for interlocutors from the outside with whom they can exchange the ideas and freely discuss scriptural views, we will be able to organize open, respectful, fruitful discussion of these topics within Iskan. you know as soon as you speak anything about uh you know the ja falling down or anything of that sort rather than banning such people you know so that by banning what you do people naturally have a a a a curiosity they will go looking out looking for it outside and you will criticize them for that also you will also not answer you will also not encourage a discussion And then when they go out and look for you will again criticize them. So rather than doing that we should have an open forum organize open respectful and fruitful discussions of these topics where you don't have to have the two people uh you know as opposing parties.

[00:59:12]They may share slightly different opinions on one particular topic.

[00:59:18]We both are followers of Shell Prahuad. We are just trying to understand how to understand the statements of Shell Prahuad. You may understand it in a particular way. I may understand it in a slightly different way. Okay. So we can have we can sit and have an open healthy discussion. Okay.

[00:59:44]Uh instead of fighting with the members of the Gaodat and other Vishnava groups for followers, we will invest energy, money and time in missionary programs teaching non sectarian scientifically based universal principle of bacti that will bring many sincere seekers of truth into our fold. Perhaps we will even find some areas of possible cooperation with those Gaudia preachers who recognize Shila Prahupath or at the very least establish respectful relations with them. We will train preachers and organize a system of care for the spiritual growth of those who come to us. We will lavishly fund and support Baktanta Institute Sha Praad's last venture which he considered one of his most important preaching projects.

[01:00:31]Instead of looking at brahmacharis and brahmacharinis as cheap labor, we will create enlivening educational programs for them. New opportunities for them to preach and social security schemes for their care. Instead of creating cumbersome management structures with tedious accountability procedures, we will work to create a culture of empowering devotees at all levels and mechanisms of succession. And who knows maybe someday we will have a proper Vishnava university for leaders at all levels that Shila praupad spoke of. Huh? And instead of adherence to the minimum sadena given by Shell Prabhuad, which is 16 rounds and four regularity principles, we will create and promote programs to truly change the heart by offering a genuine experience of absorption in the holy name.

[01:01:32]We will work to create systematic training programs to apply the philosophy of Bhagat Gita and Shimat Bhagatam in life and completely transform a participant's world view rather than just provide some formal academic courses that create the illusion of knowledge but change nothing in real life. I mean this is a sad reality. This is a sad reality. when you make you know bactas as mandatory for initiation and other such things. So people take it in a very mandatory way. You know they will not genuinely try to learn they will just try to somehow pass the exam.

[01:02:19]Instead of arguing about whether women can be gurus and whether gurus are even possible after shilapra praad we will establish clear and concise shastra criteria for what qualities gurus should possess and what categories of gurus are possible in our society you know can't uh um you know you know anyways you know This is a whole different discussion.

[01:02:49]Uh anyways, so we will create training and mentoring programs to nurture future spiritual masters and invite people to such programs rather than eyeing each new guru candidate with suspicion.

[01:03:07]Rather than prohibiting Vishnavas from accepting disciples until their own spiritual master leaves his body believing that it is the master's departure that magically qualifies the Vayishnava to become guru. We will allow those deemed qualified and willing to become gurus to do while their dika guru is living. The gurus can continue to guide and train their disciples who are now performing the service of the spiritual master.

[01:03:37]So these are the possible ways in which changes can come. So instead of arguing to to the point of horarsseness about how to establish varnisha, we will determine the basic principles underlying the social organization that are compatible with bacti and begin to implement them consistently in Iskcon's culture. We will create educational programs for the varnacha college as Shilapraad wanted to try to run them in all his contemples turning them from Sunday churches into educational centers. There are many other things that can and should be done if we want to establish bacti as the science of god and ISCON as an international educational institution dedicated to teaching this great science.

[01:04:30]There are many things which can be done.

[01:04:32]In conclusion, my says, I am well aware that it is much easier to write about all this than to actually realize it in practice. Everything that seems so beautiful uh on paper looks different in reality.

[01:04:53]This does not negate the need to try to see the ideal picture and work towards its realization. Okay. Yes, it may be easy to speak about it but very difficult to actually do it. Yeah. But at least let's at least start speaking about it rather than living in uh you know ignorance.

[01:05:20]Maraj says uh just give me a second. Yeah. Maharaj says that I am aware that there are many sincere leaders who are working hard to improve Wisconsin and make it the society that Shira Praad wanted it to be. I hope that my words will not be taken as an attempt to offend anyone or belittle anyone's service. Looking back, I understand that I myself was guilty of some of the mistakes described here due to my inexperience or excess of enthusiasm to preach Krishna consciousness far and wide. In this article, I shared my thoughts of what our society is currently going through.

[01:06:00]I am sure that many other Vishnavas more experienced than myself are also pondering this and doing everything within their power to avoid the sad scenario painted by Bakti Siddhand Sarasati and to carry out the will of Shilapraad by making is a moment that will check the imbalance of values in life and achieve real unity and peace in the world.

[01:06:28]Okay, this brings us finally to the end of uh this article. I know the last section I have little bit uh rush through without much discussion but I'm hoping that uh maybe some of those points will come up in the Q&A discussion session. So tomorrow hopefully we will start um uh with the we'll continue with the 20th chapter of the fourth kanto. Uh but before that if there are any quick discussion points, comments, questions, anything anyone would like to share as add we can take it right now. There are some things in the chat box. Let's see. Yeah, devotees who want to know about science etc. because they get these questions from non-devotees. So to answer their questions, it's important for us to answer in the language they understand. It's like an ice cream ice breaking with them. Discuss and explain in their language and slowly. Yeah, that is very important. But we ourselves should not get so excited with all these things. Talani prahu writes apologetics only end up catering to the religiously inclined followers. They try to use science or more more broadly rationality to address the challenges from agnostics. Often times they end up twisting the essence of their own scripture to do this. But we know spiritualists are transcendental to both. Okay.

[01:08:15]Uh okay. Maharaj has started a Japa college and this course is for seven years. My god.

[01:08:23]Okay. Okay. Uh simply by chanting 16 rounds and four regular principles over the period of time lud's case and makes offenses. Can you believe? Yeah. If people just chant and not follow you know you know uh you know you know how to chant uh you know how to uh properly uh you know chant the holy names and how to uh avoid offenses you know how to properly take association.

[01:08:55]Now you you actually marginalize all those teachings and just say chant but the the the the the teachings are far more broader than just these just chant and follow for regular principles. Now how to chant and all those things also pro father is very clearly mentioned.

[01:09:12]Okay, some hands up is Srid Masaka Zandra.

[01:09:21]Uh Pro uh actually uh you know I this this this last section I was I missed few in between but I was trying to catch up on YouTube. uh so this last section is is very very brutal in its uh you know and uh I don't know maybe I should not discuss this in the open I I would prefer I discuss with you one to I don't want to disturb anyone's faith by talking about what was mentioned by Maharaj about you know what is the state of devotees who have been you know in a moment for a very long time because there is definitely there is an element of truth in it but there are other considerations also which I thought I'll discuss with you one to one so I'll drop it over here yeah thank you bro thank you yes Kesha bra such a wonderful session and the last the remedy part I feel we have rushed we are discussing the problems all these days very elaborately but that conclusion I mean remedyed part it can be explained in a still better way but maybe out of time constraint you reduced And prabu regarding that initiation and the time for waiting that herd mentality we're discussing here and we are also you said you can wait for years together and take and all those things we're discussing but we're also reading from bacti sandba and other books um even that Thursday session like um only after getting dika mantra and properly chanting it then only our bi gets geared up like that also we are reading premi so um sa is definitely 100% important no one is denying it but such statements also we are reading from shastra prai so is it not naturally for a devotey to get panic for that pra waiting yes I don't see it is not like that but the point is even for receiving dika mantra one has to be uh significantly qualified to to come to that stage. So uh so therefore you keep rushing people they may get the dika mantra but they may not be uh they may not yet be properly qualified to properly chant it also. M so that way uh you know it is always good that people understand clearly and uh it should not happen that after they take initiation they start looking at oh maybe I did a mistake or something like that. Uh so then that is uh not good. So uh so so this kind of overemphasis on dika makes people uh rush for initiation and some of them may very secretly feel guilty uh uh for taking initiation uh from some from some guru and things like that. Rather than that you tell you know you you can always uh uh you know take shika is when when proper emphasis on siksha is there then people will uh probably even if they have accepted initiation they may take siksha from other uh you know they may they may take sika from other bonafide devotees or uh they may wait and carefully evaluate and accept understand their own needs and they may accept dika from uh you know different gurus. So these are things which have to be actually emphasized rather than uh you know geographical demarcation and uh such considerations for actually for the whole dika thing. Yeah pra so as you said you yourself said now that even um we are taking dika from one guru we can it's allowed to take sika from another bonafide guru it is allowed in our movement and anywhere pra so that is there then some maybe this geographical things are done to make devotees make use of this so that they may get f still focused because if someone is in some other geographical area and maybe difficult for them to get to that guru. In this day and age it is quite easier because of the social things but earlier it is very difficult now prau to approach a guru from different. So we can take takea from a bonafide that there everyone is a bonafide guru only here and uh yeah no one is stopped from receiving sa from another bonafide guru that also can be there.

[01:14:09]Ideally it should not be the case ideally it should not be the case means fro ideally they should not stop you know taking sa from other bonafide gurus sometimes there may be issues with that also oh but it is allowed in our moment at least everyone is everyone is representing prau so uh definitely one can do that it's not a problem thank Harrishna, thank you so much uh for this elaborate discussion uh uh uh which was given by his holiness uh prau my question is like Maharaj suggested among the solutions I'm not able to see it on the screen and as I was in the kitchen and was only hearing I can't even specify the page But he's I will tell you which one you're looking for. Give me a second.

[01:15:13]Yeah. I knew you would raise your hands and I knew you would ask and I will just go there directly. Yeah. Because he speaks about vanasha colleges in each and every temple. So I want to I want a clarification regarding that prop. Yeah.

[01:15:31]Uh I would say uh uh in line with the teachings of Shilar Rupagos Swami and the Purwa.

[01:15:42]Okay.

[01:15:44]Where while understanding clearly first you understand the the real teachings and then uh and then with that understanding you define what you want to establish.

[01:15:59]So the teaching of Shilarupa Swami is that is not a limb of bacti and bi should be uh ghana karma anavaratam it should not be covered by ghana karma and their karma means vanasha with this understanding should be very clear when establishing a warn college about whatever you may want to do in varnacha college the problem was praupad used the word varnacha um if only he would have used some other word I don't think it would have caused so much uh uh kind of uh diverse opinions. So clearly one should understand that this is the basic teaching because the moment it gains steam very quickly people will start speaking about as being non-negotiable from bi non-negotiable within the realm of bi. So uh very clearly if uh they understand uh you know the the essential teachings about the role of varnashama within the realm of bacti only with this understanding they should ideally establish uh any kind of college whatever they may want to teach in that college. So uh other otherwise it will create a lot of problems.

[01:17:22]So but because Maharaj has given these solutions does he also have uh any document regarding on how it actually has to be prau because um it's a general statement here but there has to be some detail about it now prau so Maharaj is just telling because Maharaj identifies that this is one of the contentions this is one of the contentions vanasham is one of the contentions you ask someone like Uh Swami Maharaj.

[01:17:55]Oh not needed for bakti. Uh oh. Oh then what did praad say by meaning? Maharaj said bi.

[01:18:07]So you know you have this understanding and you have the other extreme understanding where you know without warnam you cannot practice bi only. M so uh you know so this is why you have to you know like we cannot become uh anti- rupanoga praupadada so we are primarily rupanogas and praupad is the foremost rupanoga we cannot make praupad himself you know anti-rupanoga so he will definitely not preach something which is not preached by uh Saitatan Mahaprabhu through the writings of Shilarupa Swami, Sanatan Goswami etc. So we have to understand the the greater preaching of the parumpara very clearly and then within that we should understand what praupad would have meant that when he wanted. So because there are there are both sides of statements where of what shila praupad said like just like the ja fall down thing if you see there are uh statements which praupad said where um on one side uh um uh you know he said that we we actually came from vikunta and on the other side he says that no one comes from vonta on who goes there he doesn't come back so you you do see that there are both statements which Shilapad made. So when there are two different seemingly contradictory statements made by the same acharas then the hermeneutical principle that should be accepted is what does the greater parumpara say.

[01:19:53]So in the same way when shap praupad yes he did speak about importance of vnashtrama at the same time there are many places where he had mentioned no our our movement has nothing to do with varnacha. I established, I made them, I made you all into devotees. Where was Varnacha? There was no Vanasha. There are many such statements like that where Shila praupad very clearly presented. So now when you see two seemingly contradictory stances taken by Shala prahuad then you have to see the greater teaching of the parumpara uh where um uh where you know you have to see you know how [Music] um how this can be reconciled. So uh so so otherwise we cannot take very very polarizing stances which are against the uh greater teaching of the parumpara.

[01:20:50]So uh so therefore yes praad did use the word vasham even though in our sraaya the acharas whenever they use the word vasham it has always been almost always been to say that no it is not a part of bi.

[01:21:08]Yeah. So, Praad did take those stances also. Okay. At the same time, Propad did emphasize on the importance of also. So, uh so then we have to understand how do you understand when Propad used the word Vasham, how do you understand it? It should be understood in a way that it aligns with the teaching of the greater Paramara.

[01:21:34]So that way you know you can establish a college if you want someone can call it a van college uh whatever but uh uh there the teaching should be in alignment with what the greater parumpara teaches and not divorced from that.

[01:21:53]Yeah. One more thing Maharaj has very beautifully identified where the decay is actually happening within the institution. uh he's also projecting uh it through this document uh not just to the leaders because this is openly available to everybody uh but the solutions are like you know more like very generic in a sense like uh they just happen to be uh you know singular statements uh but I think uh there has to be more focus and um on how to you know solve each one of these problems like especially when you spoke about when he spoke about female diksha guru uh system or you know such things which are actually happening in the institution. So um what is the organization actually doing uh at the organization level? I want to know prau what Maharaj is uh the the article if you really understand what Maharaj has done it's a very very intelligent uh very intelligently he has written correct because once he goes into details it will seem like he is taking sides.

[01:23:07]So Maharaj has identified the problems and it is see often times when we identify ourselves possessing the problems we will we will be willing to rectify it immediately. True. So it's not that in discussing all the problems the solution is automatically there.

[01:23:26]It's not that it is not there. He indicates what is the uh religious uh what is the symptom of a religious mindset with respect to peers. What is the symptom of a religious mindset with respect to the other religions? So in saying that he has not just identified the problem he has given solution also. If you have this mindset you know rectify it change it.

[01:23:52]This is not the right mindset.

[01:23:54]Yeah. So this is born out of your insecurity.

[01:23:58]So in identifying that it is born out of your insecurity when you understand that what will happen you will you will stop taking it very seriously. You will stop taking that uh you will stop taking that hatred that you have towards other religions very seriously. You'll stop taking um your hatred towards other religions very seriously and you will stop taking more and more interest in coming together with devotees and discussing about you know religious conversions and other things very seriously. So the solution is there.

[01:24:32]Yeah, he has zoomed in actually to the individual level also but he has also zoomed out and given a you know generic solution. See that that as a leader uh Maharaj see no one wants spoon feeding.

[01:24:50]Correct. uh see every leader wants to take their own uh uh decision and uh they want to uh come up with their own solution. So Maharaj will very he he he he will not take that pedestal he will not go on that pedestal and say this exactly is what needs to be done even though I'm sure he knows what needs to be done and he may already be implementing it but he will only very uh he will only present it in a very suggestive way uh uh so that uh you know at least others can uh make their own choices.

[01:25:36]Yeah. Yeah. At least one thing that I have felt is because Maharaj has openly spoken and suggested so many things. uh at least those who are listening uh from them who are wants to polate to those suggestions and learn more can I think even approach Maharaj and uh ask for more suggestions prau regarding yeah actually uh you know we had requested Maharaj for some afternoon sessions we had some doubts we had requested Maharaj for a Q&A session so Maharaj has agreed for a Q&A session of course this was for our we had some doubts in our bakti sandba discussions so we wanted Maharaj's thoughts on this so we asked for a session so Maharaj has finally agreed for a session maybe once he comes for one session we can request him for other sessions also maybe you could do that yeah thank you so much gi har krishna har krishna okay uh shidamasaka prabu suggests that can you make a separate playlist of these series of lectures so that it is easier to find and hear them again.

[01:26:46]Yeah, we are already planning to do this. Yesterday only we had discussed.

[01:26:50]So this will be a part of the Bhagawatam but just like the are you sure your bacti is pure course this will be another short course you know uh we will we will put it also as a separate course so that that will be available in the website also and a separate playlist also we'll create for this okay uh I think uh dila mat had raised her hands from the very beginning but somehow she m would you like to is there something that you wanted to I have unmuted you. Yeah. Uh okay. Can you hear? Yes. M. Uh so two things. One from yesterday's class that the uh one is that we this has happened. So the leader asked uh that you do nasma you have so many issues and other things. So how to politely refuse also is a very very difficult thing because politely what m refuse like you know somehow um um doing all these things you know from day one we have been ingrained that har krishna mah mantra is everything so because of some in health issues and so many other different different issues certain very very senior devotees they emphasizing do this why don't you do this so like politely refusing them that like you know we just want to carry on with so yeah you can probably say yeah you can uh yeah I understand this you can say yes yes yes and not do it because they are not just definitely going to come to your house and follow up with you. They say we don't have to tell them. No, no, I trust in the Mahamantra.

[01:28:53]I don't trust in all these ideas. We don't have to tell them. Listen, thank you very much. We politely uh here and keep it ourel and we continue but somewhere in the heart now um I have that think but oh devotey is that devotey is so concerned for you and somewhere you know with lot of genuiness like that devotey out of love and genuiness is telling you and and Second thing I felt that I pray to Lord Nas that I really genuinely love you and respect you but somewhere like so both the things sometimes that comfortable.

[01:29:42]Even even at home, even at home, you love your family members so much. Uhhuh.

[01:29:49]Your your children love you so much. Uh you love your children so much. But is it that whatever they suggest out of their genuine concern? Uh you always do it.

[01:30:03]No, it is not like that. And they understand. They understand. See there are it is not that you the the only way of expressing your respect to others is by accepting and following everything that they say. Uh you can very very respectfully uh also we can be very respectful in not following what they say also. So but not following in itself is not disrespect.

[01:30:37]So um you know you might have you have had much more closer observation of his holiness Maharaj Maharaj many of his god brothers they tell him so many things Maharaj very respectfully makes them feel very well respected but it's not that everything that they say Maharaj follows many people come and tell Maharaj you should do this Maharaj you should do this Maharaj says yes yes and he makes them feel very respected but it's not that Maharaj does everything so it's not that saying no itself is disrespectful. We can very respectfully say no very we can very disrespectfully say yes also.

[01:31:14]So so it's the the respect that disrespect is not in saying yes or no. I mean respect has to be there in our heart you know and genuine appreciation of their concern for you should be there. Now what? Okay. Instead of narima, what if uh um if someone tells you uh that uh uh uh you go to this uh you you're tr troubled so much. I I'm strongly suggesting that there is this 7day Buddhist vipasana u meditation out of genuine affection for you. They say you will go to that also.

[01:31:58]I mean so because it is nursing you feel that oh it might be disrespectful what if they say there is this Buddhist meditation course 7-day course very powerful you know all your mental struggles will be you'll be uh you know if you're willing to go to a psychologist why not go to this Buddhist course you know you go I went it was very helpful for me you should also go you will go no uh So the point is see respect does not itself to say no in itself is not necessarily disrespectful. We can respectfully disagree.

[01:32:38]Disagreement in itself is not disrespectful.

[01:32:42]Right? So and second thing like in other counseling group also there are few devotees they are initiated and they're very very powerful and very strong about doing all these nasima and everything everything like all the samsas so like every personality is different person so me and prauji we are kind of sort of little milder versions like we are not very forceful and precious. So we sometimes don't encount on this topic we don't touch only them because we feel if we touch them they are so powerful anyway so better keep away like sort of thing. So what to do with such counsel?

[01:33:34]Yeah, there will always be such people who have a strong opinion about some particular topics which may be different from the opinion of their counselors. So similarly there could be we we should we should not try to make them understand or what what should we actually do because some understand the the way they are speaking to you it will be very clear to you whether they consider you as an authority in that particular subject matter or not. Yeah.

[01:34:04]Isn't it? So just because we are their counselors that does not mean that they may necessarily consider us as an authority in that particular subject matter. Right? So so the very fact that you have you have told that it's not necessary but still they very strongly feel about it clearly means that they don't accept you as an authority in that particular subject matter.

[01:34:28]So don't guide them on that. Yeah. It is better. Last third very quick that this comparison thing now comes up like what you said even in like we compare even in the spirituality like this religion that this so many things. So this negative quality of comparing is there I can understand but it becomes very difficult to approve. Sometime we can diagnose it but very difficult to approve. So it goes slowly only now. Yeah. Yeah. I mean I have spoken about it. It's not that I don't compare but at least I know that it is it is I have to get rid of this. Many of the things that I have spoken it's not that I suffer. I don't suffer from these things. Many of the things that are mentioned I see it I see these negative things in myself. I do possess but I don't want to justify it by telling that it is all right. You know it is not correct. It is not correct. You know it is not going immediately. Yeah. At least I'm convinced that it needs to go. Let me pray. Let me do whatever is needed so that it goes out.

[01:35:40]Right. Right. Thank you. Thank you.

[01:35:43]Thank you.

[01:35:45]Okay. Someone is raising their hands.

[01:35:46]All I see is dot dot two dots. I have unmuted you or maj Krishna. Yes ma'am.

[01:36:02]Prau uh thank you for the wonderful sessions that are going on. Prau this is regarding the niri. Uh you have been speaking on it from past two days to three days. uh uh so prahu we are practicing it from over over the years so many years and not in a mood of you know the uh focusing on the falsy aspect but uh I what I've been observing is the neopight devotees or the new newly devotees you are taking up to Krishna consciousness they take it up very seriously and uh I and practice it in the same mood of you know understanding that not on the fulfi aspect not focusing on that but uh uh the what do you say the senior devotees uh they for whatsoever reason some are observing some are not observing so what is the significance of is this like the regular all other ikadashi or is it something different what is the mood what should be the mood pu All akadesh are very important. Yes.

[01:37:16]That's not for any of these fallas but for the fact that uh they are very dear to Krishna. Okay. So where none of our acharas have specifically u you know like identified akadashi pandadashi or akadeshi or moka ikadashi as especially special akadashi all akadashi are special whatever you do for all the akadashi you do for this ikadishi also I mean okay yeah but then this is n so you have to practice in it in that way right If if every akadashi you follow this also you follow on religion okay okay actually akadashi says that you can eat till on ikadashi will you eat till on ikadashi no then so like that for every akadashi there is an akadashi story it's not that you you're going to do that okay so basically as in Um because it's dear to Krishna that should be the mood for a kadeshi. Yeah. That we are observing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much.

[01:38:35]Okay. I think we should pause here.

[01:38:37]Thank you all very much for your patient listening and your enthusiastic participation.

[01:38:42]again