Kristian A. Smith: The Bible is Not the Word of God

Añadido: 2026-05-13

[00:00:06]Now, how much I could cuss cuz I know you a man of God, >> man. Talk [ __ ] Talk.

[00:00:12]>> Oh, well, listen. And that's just how we open the show up with talk your [ __ ] There it is. Talk [ __ ] Yeah.

[00:00:16]>> There it is.

[00:00:18]There it is.

[00:00:19]>> People always do that. They be like, "I don't want to cuss in front of the pastor." I be like, "Do you know me?"

[00:00:23]>> Right now, I know cuz I watch you. I just cuz I But I guess I'm more gutted than you with that cussing stuff.

[00:00:29]>> Oh, yeah. Well, you know, I still got people in the church that's in my audience and they like still got like one foot in respectability. So, like they tolerate my cussing but don't necessarily appreciate it. So, I try not to go too hard for them, but you know, >> you know where my one foot at in the church >> outside.

[00:00:48]>> Yeah. Yeah, I understand.

[00:00:49]>> My one foot is on the side on the walk looking at the at the steps.

[00:00:53]>> I understand. And you know I'm I'm more so now deeply into uh spirituality >> and becoming you know you know understanding the concept of God outside of the constructs of what we were we were taught and we're going to talk about that today too a little bit of it.

[00:01:09]>> Bless.

[00:01:09]>> Ready?

[00:01:09]>> Let's do it.

[00:01:10]>> Hey y'all. This is TS Madison coming to you loud live and always and forever in color from the Outlaws podcast honey.

[00:01:16]And today, woo, today I have a special guest here who I am a fan of and I watch his content because he is unorthodox in the way that he delivers his message about God. And I really like unorthodox people because that's how you get people to listen. Um, Christian Smith is a voice which I have been listening to for probably about a year now. I've been I've been listening to him for a year and I clicked follow one day u when he spoke about something to do with uh queer issues and it wasn't just because he was cute cuz he is a very handsome gentleman and I did click that because of that too but it was the way it was his stance on queer issues and ladies and gentlemen today my guest is is it the reverend is it the pastor is it a doctor. Is it a It's just Christian.

[00:02:26]>> It could be Reverend Pastor. It could just be Christian.

[00:02:28]>> It's Christian Smith.

[00:02:29]>> Yeah. Christian Smith. That's That's the name my parents gave me.

[00:02:32]>> They did. Well, you know, my parents GAVE ME TIMOTHY MAURICE. BUT BUT GOD.

[00:02:36]HEY, YADA.

[00:02:39]BUT GOD.

[00:02:40]>> A wonderful change.

[00:02:40]>> A wonderful challenge that God did. Come on. Change the challenge and a change came a challenge to my to my parents and a change came on me.

[00:02:48]>> Yeah.

[00:02:49]>> I changed that to Madison, Chanel, Renee, and and that's who I am.

[00:02:53]>> I love it. I've been many names, you know, >> like Legion, many.

[00:02:58]>> We are many. Come some of you. See, you a church kid. I know. I know.

[00:03:03]>> I am. I am a church kid. And that that's what that's what that's where my connection to you was because because I am a church kid. Actually, I'm a church [ __ ] >> I'mma let you have that. I'mma stay out of that.

[00:03:15]>> I got it. I ain't going to get you in no trouble.

[00:03:16]>> You ain't about to get me cancel.

[00:03:17]>> I ain't going to get you in no trouble.

[00:03:19]I'll take all the lashes.

[00:03:20]>> Yeah. But I I was a I was a church church queen and stuff like that and it was and and you know I I try to explain to people a lot about my connection to God and my connection to well the spirit.

[00:03:34]>> Mhm.

[00:03:35]>> Um I've been on my knees many many nights not just for men but definitely for God.

[00:03:41]>> For God first.

[00:03:42]>> Yes.

[00:03:43]>> Men somewhere in there but for God.

[00:03:45]>> Yeah.

[00:03:45]>> And um you know my humor is going to be all throughout this stage so just get ready.

[00:03:50]>> Yeah. Yeah, I'm here for it.

[00:03:50]>> But but for God, you know, really trying to understand like why would you make a creation like this?

[00:03:58]>> And then tell me it's wrong.

[00:04:02]>> I I I'm all I know.

[00:04:04]>> Mhm.

[00:04:05]>> I didn't see anything that made me know this. I didn't I wasn't touched as a kid. I wasn't molested. I wasn't um I mean my dad wasn't in the home, but um I had a very strong grandfather that was that was that was a male figure in the house. I I do believe that you know my I have two other brothers that are straight. So >> that that I mean I think that the myth about men not being in the home, >> you know. So, so of course I was on my knees like, "God, everything that I keep hearing about you is condemnation to me and and all I know is me.

[00:04:45]>> So why?"

[00:04:47]So, of course, watching some of your stuff online and watching your teaching and watching how you approach spirituality and Christianity and I was drawn and I pushed follow and I've been doing it ever since.

[00:05:01]>> I'm glad you did.

[00:05:01]>> Yes. I'm glad I did, too. I am. I'm glad I did, too. Um, so we have a section on our show. It's called Talk Your [ __ ] In this section of our show, like I I can't I can say what I've saw about you, whatever, and and and tell why I followed you. In this section of the show, I allow my guests to talk that [ __ ] I you tell me what you [ __ ] the degrees the the I want to know who you are without any push back or no humility, no modesty, nothing. We've been taught as people of color, be humble cuz God will take it away from you.

[00:05:38]>> Not in this room.

[00:05:40]>> So you have to hit them where my name is and run your accolades from top to bottom.

[00:05:45]>> All right. All right.

[00:05:46]>> Let me put my cards down cuz I want to know. I want to know what I don't know.

[00:05:49]>> Run my accolades. All right. So, I'm Christian A. Smith. I'm a fifth generation Baptist preacher. Yeah. Fifth generation dad, granddad, great granddad, and his uncle. Uh, yeah. So, it it runs deep like that. Um, from Oakland, California, went to Alabama&M University. Uh, was a uh allconerence football player, inducted into the College Football Hall of Fame as a finalist for the Campbell Trophy, which is like the academic Heisman. They award it to people who excel on the field, off the field, and like in the classroom.

[00:06:25]So, I'm very very proud of that. And I don't talk about that a lot.

[00:06:29]>> Well, you you free you free range to do it in here cuz I didn't know this, you know.

[00:06:34]>> Yeah. Yeah. Um got my MBA from Alabama&M as well. Got my MD, Master of Divinity from McAfee School of Theology.

[00:06:43]Graduated with honors in every single program. Um, I started a clothing business in 2013 when I started seminary. So, I dressed a lot of people.

[00:06:52]Uh, some you may know, some you may not know. And then I started my ministry, the faith community, which is a digital church that I pastor. Uh, and I started building that using Tik Tok back in like I started the ministry in 2018. I got on Tik Tok in 2022 and that's when things took off. So, um, author of two books, one called Breaking All the Rules, an ancient framework for modern faith.

[00:07:19]>> I just released my second book, which right now is a ebook, and it's called Question Your Answers, a deconstruction survival guide.

[00:07:28]>> Um, I sing a little bit, I preach a little bit, I speak a little bit.

[00:07:33]>> Um, I think that's enough.

[00:07:37]>> Okay. [ __ ] Listen, I WOULD IT WAS NO RESTRICTIONS, you know, because I I just I get tired of and I built that part of the show because everybody always telling me, "T Master, be humble."

[00:07:48]That's all I hear about. Be humble cuz God I'm like, "God gave that to me, bitch."

[00:07:51]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:52]>> He gave it to me.

[00:07:53]>> I got to work through that myself.

[00:07:55]>> You don't you don't you don't want me to have it and you feel uncomfortable sometimes when I when I talk about cuz you you you'll bask in the place of me of of failure.

[00:08:03]>> Yeah.

[00:08:04]>> Of what of what you deem failure. You'll bask in the place of people wearing me out and and spreading lies and gossip about me and then when I come at you with the truth, it's just, "Oh, girl, well, I mean, >> yeah, >> and you and you know, you know, you guys like to always remind me that I was a sex worker and I'm telling you, yeah, I was, but I'm also this now. How How are you skipping this?"

[00:08:26]>> So, no, I'm not going to I'm going to always talk my [ __ ] >> Yeah. My dad >> and I encourage my people to do the same thing.

[00:08:31]>> My dad had that issue. Like, he was way doper than he gave himself credit for.

[00:08:37]And there's this thing where like, you know, we don't want to self-promote. Uh, which, you know, a lot of people have held against me over the course of time cuz, you know, I'm out there. I'm >> I see you.

[00:08:47]>> I'm out there, you know, cuz it it's at the point because of my relationship with the church. I had no choice but to put myself out there when I realized what nobody else going to put me on. So, it was like, I'm put myself on and I'm going to go hard at it. So, I totally understand. And I feel like, you know, I'm walking in my dad's footsteps and he could have had so much more reach if he was like more willing to like put himself out there cuz he was just that dope.

[00:09:16]>> And you I you would you sound like you love your dad?

[00:09:19]>> Oh, that was my hero.

[00:09:21]>> So, and this is that what made you want to be a pastor?

[00:09:24]>> No.

[00:09:25]>> What made you want to be a pastor?

[00:09:26]>> I didn't want to. I did not want to. I didn't want any of this. My dad told me when I was young, he was like, "Son, if you can avoid pastoring, avoid it."

[00:09:37]>> Really, >> he was like, "It's it's thankless work a lot of times, and you got to be called to it. It's got to be in you. Cuz if it's not in you, it'll break you." So, I was like, "Cool. I'm I'm going to go to corporate route. I went to school. I was like, I'm going to study business. I'm going to be a C-level executive. I want to be wealthy and anonymous. I don't need anybody to know my name. I want to travel the world first class, stay in luxury hotels, have my family, boom, I'mma just live my life. And then that call came.

[00:10:07]>> How?

[00:10:09]>> So this was like um one of the only time the first time I heard an audible voice and nobody was in the room. And you know before that happened to me, I would think that that's kind of spooky. But then the [ __ ] happened. I was uh I was a graduate assistant in the school of business at Alabama&M University and you know when you a graduate assistant you really don't have much work to do so you just be there doing your homework and one day I had no work to do I had no homework to do and for some reason I just felt compelled to open up my Bible and that's not something I would usually do I that I wasn't that kind of guy like oh let me get in my word I wasn't that kind of guy but at this particular moment that's how I felt so I just opened my Bible, started reading, and I heard a voice as clear as day say, "Preach." And I looked around the room like, "Is somebody in here?" I even walked out in the hall to see if somebody was in the front office.

[00:11:05]I was in there by myself.

[00:11:07]So, called my parents and told them what happened. And they they stayed real reserved on the phone cuz they didn't want to show their excitement, but I could like feel the excitement underneath their, you know, their their tempered approach. And uh yeah, they told me to pray about it. I did. And I was like, "Yeah, I feel like I'm supposed to preach." So, let's see.

[00:11:29]>> And you said you have a uh degree in in theology.

[00:11:33]>> Yes.

[00:11:34]>> How do Okay.

[00:11:38]Before I go there, I want to I want to add to your voice hearing.

[00:11:43]>> Okay.

[00:11:44]>> Um people think you're crazy when you say [ __ ] like that. Mhm.

[00:11:49]>> I I I there's so much that I talk about on this podcast >> of me hearing hearing >> and people are like, "Well, you can't hear from God. You're a [ __ ] >> or you can't hear from God." You know, they say [ __ ] like that. You can't hear from God. You can't hear from this because you're you're a you're a man dressed as a woman. You're a you're a trainy. You're a this. And so I'm like, listen, I don't I know what you been taught, but I don't know if it I I I call it God, whatever, but I've heard I've heard it distinctly explained to me not to move >> or not to do something or not to touch something or you know what I'm saying?

[00:12:33]And I'm like, you know, just not whatever. and I do something and I'm like, "Bitch, didn't I tell you not to do that shit?"

[00:12:41]>> Yeah.

[00:12:42]>> Now, I'm not going to [ __ ] you up, but I'mma let you get [ __ ] up a little bit so that you know I told you don't do that.

[00:12:48]>> Yeah.

[00:12:49]>> You know what I'm saying? And so, when I hear people say, "I heard a voice distinctly say," I'm always like, "Yeah." Yeah. And especially if whatever the voice was told you to do something and you become successful at doing it, >> you know it's true. Yeah.

[00:13:06]>> And you've been successful in building your church, building your presence, building your you know what I'm saying? You So it was it was true.

[00:13:16]That was true.

[00:13:18]>> Um >> it's a real it's a real thing, you know.

[00:13:20]>> And so hearing that voice, it it compelled you to go to the to to dig to delve deep into >> actually initially n like my dad told me this was 2007 when I told him about my call to preach.

[00:13:36]He told me, "Son, a call to preach is a call to prepare."

[00:13:40]>> So, I want you to get educated if you going to do this. At the time, I was in a NBA program. So, I was like in I was in grad school. Like, I was about to leave grad school for my business degree and go to seminary. So, you know, I I spent six years just preaching uh without any formal training. And then 2013, that's when I went to seminary.

[00:14:03]And that's where everything opened up.

[00:14:06]Everything opened up when I went to seminary.

[00:14:08]>> Tell me.

[00:14:09]>> So, like I like I said, I grew up in the Baptist church.

[00:14:13]>> And it was it was very interesting like it was a don't ask don't tell policy when it came to uh the Q+ community.

[00:14:22]Like >> but then my dad was like really kind. So it was like really like that's a sin but they're human beings so be kind. That's how I was raised. My dad had he was like on a firstname basis with the trans sex workers across the street like they hey pastor they would come to church sometimes like that. So it was normalized when I was a kid but still my theology said it's a sin.

[00:14:50]>> Yeah. So I go to seminary and that's where everything just starts getting challenged because I was raised to use my critical thinking and you know create arguments. My dad was like >> what's your sign?

[00:15:08]>> So I'm a Pisces.

[00:15:10]I identify more with Aries though. So I don't know what that mean.

[00:15:16]>> So you in a cusp?

[00:15:18]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:15:20]>> Okay. You're Aries, Pisces.

[00:15:22]>> Yeah, Aries, Pisces.

[00:15:23]>> Okay. Cuz I was that that kind of sound very Libish like cuz you I'm a Libra.

[00:15:29]I'm a Libra Scorpio.

[00:15:30]>> Gotcha.

[00:15:31]>> So I that sound like very diplomacy like being diplomatic and Well, I could you know I can weigh it and say like you know >> Okay. Got it. I just I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just wanted to know cuz this I was like this sound like some Libra activities going on right here.

[00:15:44]Like you know or like you've been taught it's a sin but it's a human.

[00:15:48]>> Yeah. That's that that's just like the space I was raised in.

[00:15:51]>> So like I didn't hear messages growing up bashing queer people. That wasn't a thing in my church. It was a don't ask don't tell.

[00:15:58]>> Um and then my dad would always like tell me to state my case when I asked them for something like you want this privilege, you want this luxury, state your case.

[00:16:08]>> Is your dad a Libra? Something is something is very When was he what what is his what?

[00:16:13]>> April.

[00:16:14]>> Oh, he's a Aries too. Yeah, >> cuz that sounds like something that you would like put like put it on try like put it >> I'm telling you >> that's crazy. Yeah. Yeah. Like so I would I would strategize when I had a request, you know, like my I don't know how it was when you was growing up, but like at my house >> I couldn't always go over my friend house to spend the night unless they also came to my house to spend the night too. So it was like reciprocal.

[00:16:40]>> Mhm. So, but like coming to my house to spend the night wasn't as much fun cuz I had a curfew, but my friend didn't have a curfew. So, we will be planning in advance like, "Yo, it's a house party on this weekend." So, before that, I need you to come to my house and spend the night. So, that when I asked my dad, if I can come spend a night at your house, it's already baked in. Like, you know, he came over last week, so now it's my turn to go over to his house. Like, that was kind of how he trained me to think.

[00:17:06]But he never encouraged me to use that level of critical thinking when it came to my theology.

[00:17:14]>> I got to seminary and they were like, "Hey, that critical thinking that you got, use it on this [ __ ] too." Like, ask all the questions, pick it apart, study the history, get the context, understand the the the tradition of interpretation and all of that stuff, and then apply your critical thinking to that. So my first day at seminary orientation, one of my professors, Dr. Karen Massie, she she got up in front of the room, all of these new students, and said, "Let me tell you right now out the gate." I talked about this in my book, Question Your Answers. She said, "I'm going tell you right now, the Bible is not the word of God."

[00:17:55]>> Oh.

[00:17:56]>> And I was, >> "Wait a minute." I said, "We going to use that as the title of this video."

[00:18:01]I was like, "Okay, >> we going to use that as a time." Well, you she told you what >> the Bible is not the word of God.

[00:18:08]>> Oh, >> that's what she said. And then she said, "The Bible is a word of God." So, we can hear from God. We do hear from God when we read these sacred texts, but we can't limit God to this. God didn't start speaking when this Bible was written.

[00:18:24]God didn't stop speaking when this Bible was closed. God is still speaking. God is speaking through us and we're here to discern what God is saying through life in general. And we use this as a resource as well. But God ain't limited to this >> at all. And so after she said that, what happened? Like where where did your mind go after that?

[00:18:50]>> Yeah. Like for me it was like okay people have told me this was going to be a challenge and immediately that was like a challenge and it was like so what you going to do? Are you going to lean in and see what they talking about and see if there's some validity to it or you going to run and I was like I'm here so let's go let's dig into it. So out the gate we just started unpacking and everything just started changing. All of the answers I came in with started being questioned. be right. Right. Oh [ __ ] All right. I got I have so much to say.

[00:19:26]>> Yeah.

[00:19:26]>> So, one of my questions I had with God, like, you know, before I even got into the text of anything was like why >> like what what's going on, you know?

[00:19:39]>> Yeah.

[00:19:40]>> You're gonna laugh at my second question.

[00:19:43]>> What was the second one? The second question was, if Cain was marked and went out into the world and took a wife and these was the only [ __ ] over here in Eden, where in the [ __ ] did the wife come from?

[00:19:59]>> Yeah. Yeah. Holes in the story, right?

[00:20:03]It's because it's allegory. It's a myth.

[00:20:07]We We were taught and I I talk about this in my book. We were presented a faith tradition through a filter of certainty.

[00:20:18]So these stories were told to us like this is a historical fact. This is what actually happened when the the earth was created. It's like no, this is cultural folklore that we have deemed sacred and we should be able to treat it as such.

[00:20:36]Like this is cultural folklore. like this is a cultures way of explaining how they got here. It's their origin story, a particular culture, >> right? And it's a culture that adopted from other cultures that preceded it.

[00:20:53]>> So, a lot of us have a a hard time processing these stories because we were taught to look at it as historical, but it's like that can't be historical.

[00:21:01]>> It can't.

[00:21:02]>> It don't make no sense.

[00:21:03]>> It does not. And it's just like and when you say stuff like that as a Christian people hear you being blasphemous.

[00:21:10]>> Of course. Of course.

[00:21:13]>> People who are are are devout Christians will hear blasphemy in any question cuz the next question is don't well the next statement is don't question God >> which is terrible theology.

[00:21:26]>> It's like how God need to know.

[00:21:28]>> So many people question God throughout the Bible. So like why why are we not allowed to question God? We just got done celebrating Easter and Good Friday.

[00:21:37]And every year on Good Friday, people get up in that pull pit and they preach, "My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?"

[00:21:45]>> So, we got Jesus questioning God. We got other characters in the Bible questioning God all throughout. Of course, you're supposed to question God.

[00:21:52]>> Yes. Because all that came from other pagan traditions.

[00:21:56]That uh uh uh uh Easter was from the goddess Estore. Listen, don't get me into that cuz I sit I read I I I question. I I I think I don't I don't let myself be clouded with this like, well, this is the way, the truth, and the light. No.

[00:22:16]>> Mhm.

[00:22:16]>> No, this is one of the ways.

[00:22:19]>> Mhm.

[00:22:19]>> This is some of the truth. And it all it all derives of where you see light in this conversation. So, I'm I'm I'm in that space. And >> that's how y'all look at that. I am the way. Cuz like that's one that the Christians love to use.

[00:22:35]>> Oh boy. They love >> So So wait a minute. Are you Christian?

[00:22:38]>> I identify as a spiritual humanist.

[00:22:42]>> Oh, you going to have these people ting it out.

[00:22:45]>> A spiritual humanist who follows the way of Jesus. So spiritual in the sense that I have a deep sense of spirituality.

[00:22:52]Like just my blackness comes with spirituality because the spirituality of the black church transcends Christianity. It's a spirituality that we brought with us from the western shores of Africa. We already had that.

[00:23:06]>> So I take it you've watched American Gods.

[00:23:08]>> I haven't watched American Gods. Okay. I will.

[00:23:11]>> You should.

[00:23:12]>> I will.

[00:23:12]>> With the story of Ani. We we've had um Orlando Jones on the show.

[00:23:18]>> Ah yeah yeah.

[00:23:19]>> Yeah. We've had we've had Orlando Jones on the show. He played uh the character Ani the Spider from um a from the African there was an African one of our gods from Africa.

[00:23:28]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I I think that you should take a moment. It's on It's on stars.

[00:23:32]>> Okay.

[00:23:32]>> I think that you should when in your time in between whatever, >> start binge watching.

[00:23:37]>> I will.

[00:23:38]>> Um it it uh it it talks about uh uh uh not Thors, what's Odin, Odin and I like like Norse mythology and they tie it into Greek mythology and >> they talk about um Hindu. They talk about every every aspect of how religion came to the Americas.

[00:24:03]>> Mhm.

[00:24:04]>> I think that you really appreciate American Gods. It was cancelled after that kind of a little bit after that situation happened when Orlando Jones did that uh monologue.

[00:24:14]>> Yeah. Yeah. I remember the monologue.

[00:24:16]>> Yeah.

[00:24:17]>> Yeah.

[00:24:17]>> You got to watch.

[00:24:18]>> Mhm.

[00:24:19]>> So just you know when you get some time.

[00:24:21]>> Yes. And it it it talks about how, you know, things were adopted when we when people when when all these different people came to the Americas and the gods that they brought with them.

[00:24:32]>> And so that's how I was like I I found out about Esto the the there was a pagan. It was a part of of North I might be wrong. So [ __ ] y'all don't get out there with that [ __ ] >> It's a lot to try to hold on to. Yeah.

[00:24:47]I've heard, you know, the pagan origins of of Easter and Christmas and all of these different holidays. I don't I don't remember the details in my head, but I remember it.

[00:24:58]>> Well, we Well, we've been forced to remember that Jesus was born on on December 25th, right?

[00:25:03]>> I'm like, Jesus is a Gemini. I think >> he wasn't born in No, he wasn't born on and he wasn't the 25th.

[00:25:10]>> We don't know. And see, I told my community last week, I don't know is a theological statement.

[00:25:20]I don't know is an acceptable theological statement. But because we were presented our faith through a filter of certainty, we don't feel like we can say I don't know. [ __ ] you better know.

[00:25:32]>> Yeah.

[00:25:32]>> What you mean you don't know?

[00:25:34]>> You didn't read it.

[00:25:35]>> Didn't you see it? YOU SEE IT RIGHT THERE? YOU'RE LIKE, "YEAH, but also Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, there are there are all different accounts of the of these people's contact with Jesus." And this was written >> decades >> after.

[00:25:51]>> Yeah. Decades.

[00:25:53]>> Yeah.

[00:25:53]>> After and and and and the hardest thing is my mother is devout. M.

[00:26:03]>> So, the hardest thing for me is when we have conversations and I say, "Mommy, >> how you say it?

[00:26:14]>> Mommy."

[00:26:18]>> Uh, um, now you do know that people have the right to believe the things that they believe. And she's like, "Yes, yes." But see, Jesus is the way. And I'm like, "Yes, mommy.

[00:26:39]>> For you, maybe for us, but they don't they may not believe it.

[00:26:46]And they're not wrong.

[00:26:48]They're not wrong for believing.

[00:26:51]Them people over there are not wrong.

[00:26:53]Mhm.

[00:26:55]>> And it's hard telling telling Christians that other people are not wrong for their >> Yeah. Because the doctrine convinces Christians that everybody else is wrong.

[00:27:10]And it's it's built on fear and control.

[00:27:15]You don't want to be wrong, not just intellectually. You don't want to be wrong eternally.

[00:27:22]Because if I get it wrong, >> going to hell.

[00:27:24]>> Going to hell.

[00:27:26]That's why I ask Christians all the time, who would you be without hell?

[00:27:30]If you didn't have the threat of eternal conscious torment forever looming over your life, who would you be?

[00:27:39]Because hell is the cop out for every I don't want to go to hell. I don't want to go to hell. Okay, so that's your excuse to make people's lives a living hell. If you going to make my life a living hell, I don't want to go to your heaven anyway. Why would I want to spend eternity with you in heaven and you making my life a living hell?

[00:27:55]>> Yeah. So like the whole I am the way, the truth, and the life. A lot of people they apply that like the name of Jesus is the most important thing. But it's not about the name of Jesus. It's about the way. You can practice the way of Jesus and never call the name. And it's a whole lot of people that call the name every day and don't know anything about the way. So what I do when I come at that particular passage, I talk about it in terms not uh the like having faith in Jesus but having the faith of Jesus. So what does it mean to live like Jesus like actually the type of person that he was?

[00:28:43]Somebody who was compassionate, who cared about the marginalized, the poor, the prisoner, the sick. Somebody who tried to make everybody around him feel okay, feel safe. Like that. That's what it means to I am the way, the truth, and the life. My way is the way. You see how I treat people. You see how I made people feel safe. That's the way.

[00:29:04]The truth that I'm living, that's the truth. You see the light that's shining through me. That's the light. And you don't have to call on the name of Jesus to live that out. That's why my ministry, we got we got like Christians, we got non-Christians, atheists, agnostics, hudoo practitioners, epha priest.

[00:29:24]>> I know. I've seen them.

[00:29:26]>> I've seen them in your comments. I've seen them in I've seen you talk to them.

[00:29:30]I I watch >> I mean, and I be sharing. I know you be seeing me sharing a lot. I I I will share a lot of your things especially especially things that have made me think like even like I remember you was tearing these people up about uh they were talking about burning sage and >> oh god >> burning sage and u um crystals and all this stuff like you were talking to them about it and they were and there were people that was down in your comment cuz I go in your comment I go to see with the discourse.

[00:29:58]>> Yeah.

[00:29:58]>> I I'm sorry y'all. I I go to see like how many of you are critically thinking and how many of you have have have just been thought for.

[00:30:06]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:30:08]>> Cuz when you're indoctrinated into the B to bib to the biblical text completely and and and devoted.

[00:30:16]I'm sorry. I think that you're thought for >> and you don't leave room to to to think, >> right? Yeah. Everything is prepackaged and handed to you. You're you're not invited to wrestle with it. You're not invited to interrogate it. You just are told to accept it and obey it. So there is no room to think. The whole doctrine is built on obedience. Everything is about obedience. Obey God.

[00:30:46]>> Slaves obey your husband. Slaves obey your masters. Obey the governing authorities.

[00:30:52]>> Everything is about obedience. So that doesn't give you the space to actually think critically because your whole life is dependent on you being obedient. So don't ask me no damn questions, [ __ ] Be obedient.

[00:31:04]>> Be obedient. Yeah.

[00:31:06]>> And your life depends on it. So yeah, it's very difficult to wrestle with concepts that you were told if you get wrong, you're going to hell. And so hell has been what's what's really been the the it's like fear-mongering.

[00:31:25]>> Yes. Yes. It's exactly what it is.

[00:31:28]>> And so I am a direct opposition. Direct.

[00:31:33]>> I've noticed >> this is a direct opposition to I don't give a [ __ ] what y'all talking about.

[00:31:39]And I love the Lord still, [ __ ] >> Yeah, I love it.

[00:31:42]>> I don't give a [ __ ] what none of that [ __ ] y'all talking about over there. And I still love and hell don't [ __ ] scare me cuz [ __ ] if I got to go to heaven with you puss ass hoes. I don't want to be in there. I don't want to eat mana with y'all [ __ ] I don't want to eat that mana with you [ __ ] [ __ ] I don't want to do that.

[00:32:00]>> I'm with you >> cuz y'all ain't right.

[00:32:04]>> I'm with you.

[00:32:04]>> And look at the way that it has this country [ __ ] up.

[00:32:07]>> Yeah.

[00:32:10]>> All in the name of I'm a Christian. I'm Christian. And God told See, I could, you know what I'm saying? God said when he said it, >> what do you how do you feel about God said?

[00:32:24]>> How do you feel about God said, you know, like God said?

[00:32:28]>> I'm always careful with that. And that's not just like with conservative Christians, like when everybody says it.

[00:32:34]Like sometimes I feel like people use God as a scapegoat for what they want to do.

[00:32:41]So, it's like if you want to do it, just do it. You don't have to put it on God, >> right? Especially Especially when we refer to Huh.

[00:32:50]>> I want to get a napkin. Oh, sorry.

[00:32:52]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:32:53]>> Okay.

[00:32:54]>> Especially when we refer to God as something wholly outside of us, >> like completely external.

[00:33:02]So then it removes all of the personal accountability from us because this God that is outside of us told us to do it.

[00:33:12]>> But God is inside of you too. Like when you do hear voices, it's usually a voice that you recognize. And a lot of times it's your own voice. Earlier when you was talking about God like getting on you for like making the wrong decision, God was talking to you in your own voice. Like [ __ ] like that was what you said. God said it to you, >> [ __ ] >> You see what I'm saying?

[00:33:32]>> And when I tell you I tell people that they be saying I'm blasphemous against God. I'm like, [ __ ] you don't know how I hit.

[00:33:39]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:33:40]>> And I'm going tell you, I again on this show I always refer back to some some some episodes of guest. Mo'Nique sat here on the show and and we've Mon'nique is my very good friend. That's my girlfriend. M >> and I I had to reiterate to her that she had called me because she said um she had a message from the universe for me.

[00:34:04]>> She called me on the phone with her. She said, "Bitch, listen. I got a message from from the universe for you to tell you." And I was like, "Girl," I said, "What? What is she?" She said, "Bitch," I said, "Hold on.

[00:34:13]Hold on.

[00:34:15]It that came from God, the universe, because that's how it speaks to me."

[00:34:20]>> Yeah. And it's and that, you know, cuz at the time when when the message came through, I was shutting [ __ ] out. I don't want to hear no more. I don't give a [ __ ] about that. I don't want to hear no more. And it's like, [ __ ] I'm trying to talk. Okay, hold on. I'm going to call your girlfriend >> and I'm going tell your girlfriend to call you so that you know and I'mma say it so and your girlfriend going to say it the way and you going to know I'm telling you to stop this.

[00:34:41]>> Yeah.

[00:34:42]>> And it was very much so. She said, "Do you know what?" She said, "Bitch, I said, yeah, I receive it.

[00:34:48]>> I receive immediately. I receive it.

[00:34:50]>> Yeah. Like the the divine speaks to us in a language that we understand and a language that will get our attention.

[00:34:59]And language is a social construct. So words have the meaning that we ascribe to them. Just because one person sees [ __ ] as offensive in every setting doesn't mean the next person does.

[00:35:15]Because this person may see it as a term of endearment. Thank you.

[00:35:18]>> See you hot.

[00:35:18]>> Mhm. It's hot out of here.

[00:35:20]>> It's a little It's a little warm.

[00:35:21]>> It's a little toasty.

[00:35:22]>> That's why I want to go to hell, >> right?

[00:35:24]>> That's why I don't want to go to hell.

[00:35:25]>> Well, I mean, [ __ ] They might fry some good chicken in that [ __ ] >> They might. They might.

[00:35:29]>> It might be some wings in there.

[00:35:33]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, like, you know, words have the meaning that we ascribe to them and and it's not offensive to everybody.

[00:35:40]Like the word [ __ ] Some people hate me for saying the word [ __ ] They hate me for saying it.

[00:35:45]>> And I don't care. Some of the best people I've ever known in my life is [ __ ] and they say [ __ ] all the time.

[00:35:54]One of my dad's famous lines that he will always say, "Well, son, you know, [ __ ] ain't shit."

[00:36:00]>> Yeah, >> that was like my dad would say that to me all the time. So, it's like miss me with that. For me, it's a term of endearment when it's, you know, used in the right context for me. It might not be like that for everybody else. So, you know, the divine speaks to us in the language that we understand.

[00:36:14]>> Yes. Now, I want to go back a little bit because I know that you are you're an unorthodox in the way that you move and the way that you teach and stuff.

[00:36:22]>> I'd like for you to talk about some of the push back you get with that stuff and like how how you how they come at you cuz I I watched the I've seen your two of your biggest push backs just me on the outside looking in.

[00:36:37]>> Mhm.

[00:36:37]>> When you talk about the girls.

[00:36:39]>> Absolutely.

[00:36:40]>> And when you talk about who?

[00:36:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. When you talk about that stuff, I when you talk about that kind of stuff, I see how they be they just >> Yeah.

[00:36:55]Oh, man. So, like, you know, that type of stuff is what leads people to call me all manner of evil. I get into my comments, my DMs, emails.

[00:37:05]Uh, never to my face, though.

[00:37:07]>> Of course not.

[00:37:08]>> None none of these people have anything to say.

[00:37:10]>> And I know they see me, too, cuz people see me in the street all the time. And so I know when somebody recognize me cuz they be like >> and they open their phone.

[00:37:18]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:37:19]>> Yeah. Yeah. So I know these people see me but they they don't they don't want that smoking real life.

[00:37:23]>> No they don't.

[00:37:24]>> So >> I I'm with you when you write.

[00:37:26]>> Yeah. Yeah. So like I've been called an enemy of God, the antichrist. I was called a heretic so many times early on in my my public ministry that I actually adopted the moniker. I call myself the heretic because I people had called me a heretic so many times. I was like, "Let me look up this word. Let me look up the like technical definition."

[00:37:47]>> Tell me what it means. Tell me the technical definition of >> A heretic is a person that holds views and opinions contrary to what is widely accepted.

[00:37:57]>> Oh, I'm a heretic then.

[00:37:59]>> Yeah. I was like, "Oh, yeah, that's me.

[00:38:00]>> Yeah, that's me.

[00:38:01]>> Okay, I'm the heretic. I'll be that."

[00:38:03]>> Yeah. And usually, you know, heretics are just people who were like right too early, you know, like, you know, one of my one of my forerunners, Bishop Carlson Pearson.

[00:38:14]They called him a heretic when he came out with the gospel of inclusion. Now, a lot of the people who called him a heretic when he came out with the gospel of inclusion are singing his praises at the end of his life. He was just right before the before everybody else.

[00:38:26]>> That used to happen.

[00:38:27]>> Yeah. So, like I don't worry about the push back that I get cuz y'all not my audience anyway. Like I'm not trying to convert people. I'm here for the person that has like that feels like something is off, something's not connecting, but you just can't quite put your finger on it.

[00:38:50]>> I'm that person.

[00:38:51]>> I'm here to help you put your finger on it.

[00:38:52]>> I'm that person.

[00:38:53]>> Yeah.

[00:38:54]>> Cuz I'm telling you, I that's what made me push follow. And of course I'm I'm always going to I'm always going to be um you know inclined to like people that speak about you know queer in a positive way.

[00:39:08]>> Sure.

[00:39:09]>> But it wasn't you just speaking about queer in a positive way. You were really like breaking it down like you know what I'm saying how your experience where you had to unlearn and you said like I had to really take a moment and be like well damn let me ask myself when when I knew I was straight. No >> I'm telling you that was that was a game changer. That introspection that that changed everything for me.

[00:39:29]>> I sat and watched you like I had to challenge myself like well when did I know I was straight. So how can I say how can I ask these people that are telling you this is all I've known? I've only known me.

[00:39:42]>> Yeah.

[00:39:43]>> Cuz you've only known you.

[00:39:44]>> That's it.

[00:39:45]>> So when these people are saying this, how is it justifiable for me to only know I've only known me? And then when these people say this is all I've known about myself, what makes me and them we're both humans. What makes the what makes why why isn't a chemical imbalance for me but a chemical imbalance for them? What makes them uh uh mentally unstable and mental stable?

[00:40:09]>> I mean a lot of it just comes back to our theology around sin.

[00:40:17]Like once your identity is labeled as sin, like people will do whatever they can to justify your dehumanization because sin sends you to hell. And if you justify sin, you going to hell. So people will fight like hell to hold on to this idea that your basic humanity is sinful. And they don't even care how harmful their actions are towards you cuz like your existence is against their religion.

[00:40:53]So you can't reason with those people.

[00:40:55]You got to like like you do. You just got to resist them. Like the hell would y'all [ __ ] up? I'mma move on with my life.

[00:41:01]>> Yeah. Um, so you know, people have to have the will to unlearn. They got to want to unlearn. I don't care how much logic you got for people. If they don't want to unlearn the stuff, they they're not going to do it.

[00:41:17]>> They're not going to do it.

[00:41:18]>> They could watch this podcast. They could watch yours. They could they could I mean, they could sit there and get and have the actual facts.

[00:41:24]>> Yeah. It don't matter cuz we don't connect to our theology and our spirituality intellectually. We connect emotionally.

[00:41:32]>> So, if you don't tap into people's emotions, then the intellect isn't gonna really hit them >> at all.

[00:41:37]>> It's not gonna really hit them.

[00:41:38]>> And the crazy part about it is it's like like I had this argument with somebody just recently. I was like, "Well, you do know that um >> what you what you >> do know that um girl that these last chapters of the Bible, these people had no con these people had no they didn't even interact with Jesus."

[00:42:01]>> No, no.

[00:42:03]>> These these these texts are actually are all out of order, too.

[00:42:07]>> Yeah.

[00:42:07]>> One of the texts said that that that Jesus did this and and rose on this day.

[00:42:12]Then another text said, "Well, that that that he ascended and sleep." Like, it's just like the texts are all over the place.

[00:42:18]>> Yeah.

[00:42:19]>> And you want me to not question.

[00:42:22]>> Yeah. And that's why I don't get into the whole debate about what this text says and what this text says. And like I will teach people that, but I'm not going to debate that with these fundamentalist Christians because there's no point. They're operating from a different basic paradigm or a set of basic assumptions. Their basic assumptions are the Bible is always right. It's inherent, meaning it can't have any errors. It's infallible, meaning it can never be wrong. And then that's the theology they push. My theology is totally different. My theology doesn't use the default question, well, what does the Bible say about that? My theology uses the default question. How does the greatest commandment apply here?

[00:43:12]>> What is the greatest commandment?

[00:43:13]>> So Jesus was asked by an attorney, what's the greatest commandment in all of the law? In another text that tells a parallel story. So like the first question was in Matthew. In Luke, the attorney says, "How do I gain eternal life?" All right, so this is the question that's being raised. What's the greatest commandment in all the law? How do I gain eternal life? And Jesus says here it is love God with your heart, soul, mind, and your strength. And the second part is like it. Like it. And like it means of equal rank in the original language. A second part is of equal rank. Love your neighbor as yourself. And then he goes on to say, everything in the law and everything in the prophets hinge on these two. Love God and love your neighbor as yourself.

[00:44:03]So you can't love God if you don't love your neighbor as yourself.

[00:44:07]Loving your neighbor as yourself is the essence of loving God. So greatest commandment theology says your love for God is displayed through how you love your neighbor. And your love for your neighbor is a reflection of the love you have for yourself. So selflove is at the core of the gospel.

[00:44:27]And that's that's on Jesus. Mhm.

[00:44:29]>> So if we're supposed to love ourselves, I can't teach Q plus people to hate who they are, >> right?

[00:44:35]>> That's antithetical to Jesus. Jesus was like, "You got to love yourself first."

[00:44:41]That selflove is so critical to the gospel message that Jesus didn't even command it. He assumed it.

[00:44:52]Love God and love your neighbor as yourself. Love God and love your neighbor. That's the greatest commandment. Love yourself. That's the greatest assumption. Of course, you got to love yourself. But we're not being taught that in church.

[00:45:07]>> No.

[00:45:07]>> So, when it comes to these ethical moral dilemmas that we face, I'm not asking what does the Bible say about that? What does the Bible say here? Because you can use the Bible to justify anything you want.

[00:45:18]>> Anything.

[00:45:19]>> Anything. So we try to engage in our critical thinking and say how does the greatest commandment apply here? How am I loving God and how I love my neighbor and how I love myself? And the first rule of love is do no harm. So my work is the work of harm reduction. And I see the harm the church has done to the Q+ community. And it's like I'm not going to participate in that. As a matter of fact, I'm gonna subvert that. I'm gonna push back and say, "Yo, we've been wrong about this and we need to stop >> because I love black people more than anything.

[00:45:57]>> All of us. I want all of us to be okay.

[00:46:01]>> Male, female, >> man, woman, non-binary, trans, sis. I don't I want all of us to be okay."

[00:46:10]>> So, I don't want to cause any harm to any of my black sibs.

[00:46:16]And that's just how I carry out my ministry. We not we not tolerating that.

[00:46:20]I I I'll have disagreements and debates, but I ain't debating nobody's humanity.

[00:46:25]You miss me with that?

[00:46:26]>> Yeah. Yes. That's that's that's why I [ __ ] with you.

[00:46:30]>> That's why I [ __ ] with you.

[00:46:31]>> That's just why I [ __ ] with you because it's just like you got like it's I hate the way they have they have just dehumanized anything that's like because when you can dehumanize it, you can you can again condemn it to hell. Absolutely.

[00:46:46]Absolutely. And it and it gives when you dehumanize people, you also justify violence towards them cuz then you can convince yourself they deserve the violence that is being enacted towards them.

[00:47:02]And the first rule of love is do no harm. So you can't justify violence towards me just for existing and say you love me. That's some [ __ ] >> Right. Right.

[00:47:11]>> And don't blame that on Jesus.

[00:47:12]>> Right. Cuz Jesus wouldn't Jesus wouldn't even [ __ ] with that.

[00:47:15]>> Yeah.

[00:47:15]>> I want to talk a little bit about and then and then I know so we it's hot in this [ __ ] cuz this is it's warm in here. How much more time we got?

[00:47:23]>> We got 10 minutes. Oh [ __ ] >> Oh, time flying. We having fun.

[00:47:27]>> I thought we was just getting started.

[00:47:29]>> I did too.

[00:47:30]>> We got to do this again.

[00:47:31]>> Yeah. I got to come over there on your stuff and shake it up.

[00:47:33]>> Oh yeah, we going to do it >> cuz I shake it up over there.

[00:47:36]>> Oh, I know. Um, when people tell me that Jesus said this and God said this, I tell let me tell you [ __ ] whole song. If you really want to be technical, TECHNICAL, >> TECHNICAL.

[00:47:48]>> THE only thing that Jehovah said was when Jehovah took his big finger and wrote on those rocks from Mount Si.

[00:48:00]That's the only thing that was actually written by, if you want to be technical, >> you talking about uh, you talking about the ten commandments.

[00:48:06]>> The ten commandments. That's the only thing that that that that was [ __ ] written by the Most High.

[00:48:11]Everything else [ __ ] wrote that [ __ ] >> Mhm.

[00:48:14]>> When I say that to people, oh, they get they get fire mad. I'm like, oh, what what's the but what's what what's me then? Because if we technically looking at when Moses went up there and Moses had that conversation with Jehovah cuz it wasn't even Jesus then it was Jehovah >> and he uh he descended from Mount Si and he brought them scrolls down there.

[00:48:37]God took his big finger and wrote that.

[00:48:42]>> Mhm.

[00:48:43]>> All that other [ __ ] Don't talk to me about the Levitical law. I don't want to hear [ __ ] about Leviticus if you ain't if you ain't following that that mosaic.

[00:48:50]If you ain't started with that [ __ ] don't don't talk to me nothing about cuz you some lying ass hoes. You [ __ ] love to loud people.

[00:48:58]>> You like to covet.

[00:49:00]>> Mhm.

[00:49:00]>> You are murderous in your spirit.

[00:49:03]>> Mhm.

[00:49:04]>> You are wicked.

[00:49:06]>> You know what I'm saying? [ __ ] don't the the first 10.

[00:49:10]>> Don't don't don't talk to me.

[00:49:12]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:49:12]>> Too many [ __ ] ain't even following the first 10 to be over here telling me about about abominations on one head.

[00:49:18]>> And my thing is [ __ ] ain't following the greatest one.

[00:49:24]So with the greatest commandment, I use that to interpret everything. The ten commandments, the Levitical law, the Mosaic law, the Torah, the Tanakh, the the the prophets, the gospels, the epistles. I use the greatest commandment to interpret all of that. So if I read something in the Bible like when I read uh in Exodus where it talks about um how you can beat your slave within an inch of their life and as long as they stay alive for a couple of days then no harm no foul because that's your property.

[00:50:01]But but if they die immediately well then yeah you should be punished. Like when I read that and then I say, "Okay, well, how does the greatest commandment apply here?" Oh, based on the greatest commandment, shouldn't nobody have no slave? So, I reject that.

[00:50:18]I reject that. That's how I approach biblical interpretation. How does the greatest commandment apply to all of this? And people don't know what to do with that.

[00:50:29]>> They don't.

[00:50:29]>> They have no idea what to do with that.

[00:50:31]But you can't tell me no different because you say you trying to follow Jesus. And when somebody asked him what's the most important thing out of everything, this is what he said. So are you going to follow him or not?

[00:50:45]>> Are you married?

[00:50:49]>> I'm going through a divorce.

[00:50:50]>> Oh, you're going through a divorce.

[00:50:51]>> I'm going through a divorce. I asked you that because you know uh we get into this space where where our cuz I talked to you about my about my mommy.

[00:51:01]>> Mhm.

[00:51:02]>> And I love I'm telling you mommy, >> right?

[00:51:07]>> Yeah.

[00:51:08]>> Now she don't really get into the debate. I be mommy.

[00:51:12]>> You know that this is a full challenge of your faith.

[00:51:21]You you do know that this is something that you prayed to God for >> and it came to you in this form.

[00:51:30]>> You asked God to teach you how to love.

[00:51:35]You asked God to teach you patience.

[00:51:38]You asked God to draw you closer to him.

[00:51:42]This is your answer.

[00:51:45]>> And how does she respond to that?

[00:51:47]>> She she love God. She done been drawn closer to him. And honey, she loves >> good.

[00:51:53]>> So, she's following what God told her to do.

[00:51:57]>> Yeah.

[00:51:58]>> Be obedient to me. And she's being obedient because and and I I point this out to lots of people who have Q plus. I like the way you say Q+. I'm start adding that cuz I ain't got to go through all the [ __ ] letters.

[00:52:10]>> Listen, that's how I got to it.

[00:52:11]>> Yeah. I don't got I got to go. This is how I explain to people they have Q plus kids. Q plus siblings, Q plus loved ones. This is an answer to something that you prayed for.

[00:52:25]>> Mhm.

[00:52:26]>> Because this is a challenge especially when cuz you know my mama said the first time when she um when she professed that she was Christian, there's like you can't be no real love of God and you let your your son be out here d wearing women's clothes and you think your son How you going to heaven? You your your own son won't I'm like [ __ ] Well, me and her ain't going to the same [ __ ] place you going, ho.

[00:52:50]>> Cuz again, why would I want to go?

[00:52:52]>> Why the [ __ ] do we want to go? I don't want to stay on the same street with you, [ __ ] I don't want to eat mana with you, [ __ ] >> I'm good.

[00:52:58]>> I'm straight.

[00:52:59]>> Yeah.

[00:53:00]>> And I ain't about 144,000 of you [ __ ] going anyway, [ __ ] >> Come on with your hoes with me.

[00:53:07]>> YEAH, I SAY ALL THAT KIND OF STUFF, YOU KNOW. So I asked you that because usually like as a person who you know y'all kind of marry like y'all preachers know y'all married them first ladies get them first ladies and [ __ ] and y'all y'all be on one mind and one one accord.

[00:53:25]What was it? Was it a challenge for your for your wife at the time or?

[00:53:29]>> No, no, not at all. Like she was there before me like my theological my my wife is a therapist and she came into this space already being inclusive. And when I went to seminary, my seminary education gave her language for the stuff that she had always been wrestling with and made sense of the questions that she had been asking. And then she brought her therapeutic insight to me to understand like how uh people connect to their spirituality emotionally, not intellectually. So if you only approach them with logic, you're never going to get through to them cuz you have to disarm them emotionally in order to actually talk to them. So nah, she was always there.

[00:54:19]>> Okay.

[00:54:20]>> Yeah.

[00:54:20]>> So Okay. Okay. So you had a great support system with that. Okay. Good.

[00:54:24]Good. Good.

[00:54:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:54:25]>> That's good. And that's And you need moving forward.

[00:54:28]>> Yeah. Oh yeah.

[00:54:28]>> In your next jump, >> you got to keep a supportive system like that because you'll lead more people to God, Christ, whatever it is. You'll lead more people this way than con condemnation.

[00:54:44]>> Absolutely.

[00:54:45]>> Condemnation pastors make my ass itch.

[00:54:49]>> Same.

[00:54:50]>> Because they they speak condemnation and the offering plate go around and it gets full. You know that? You notice that?

[00:54:57]>> The more condemnation you speak, the bigger that offering plate get. The more you single out a specific thing, the more the shouting get the get the shouting.

[00:55:08]>> Yes. Guilt.

[00:55:09]>> Yeah.

[00:55:09]>> Fear.

[00:55:10]>> Oh, >> obedience.

[00:55:12]>> BS.

[00:55:13]>> God hates this.

[00:55:15]>> And you don't want to be cursed.

[00:55:16]>> No.

[00:55:17]>> Yeah.

[00:55:18]>> Yeah.

[00:55:18]>> Yeah. That's that's what the whole system is built upon. Like fear, control, guilt, shame. I was just talking about this on Patreon live on my community yesterday. I got on and started just talking about some like process and some thoughts. And I was thinking about how like in my space like ministry wise, it's more difficult to raise money because I'm not using control tactics to get people to give.

[00:55:44]Most people give out of obedience because they don't want to be cursed, not because, oh, I really believe in this work and I want to see it go forward, so let me put money behind it so that this work can continue. It's like, hey, if you don't give 10% of your income, your life is going to be cursed.

[00:56:02]And then that mess with you psychologically. So now every time you run into a financial challenge, >> you like, damn, I should have gave.

[00:56:10]>> I should have. So you don't This is safe to say. So how how is your your stance on tithing?

[00:56:16]>> I don't mandate tithing. I do believe in giving. I do believe that what you put out into the world comes back to you. So you should be generous. Um, and I believe in our ministry, hey, this these are the things we want to do, and this is how much it cost. So, if you want to see us do these things, we need you to give towards these things so we can do them. And when you give to them, you will see the stuff will get done. Uh, so that's kind of how we approach it. We talk about generosity. We talk about giving. We also talk about like just like economic justice. What it means to pay people a living wage for the work that they do.

[00:56:56]>> The pastor.

[00:56:57]>> Yeah. The pastor, the service providers.

[00:57:00]Cuz you know, it's a whole lot of churches like just everything is volunteer based. Like that's and and we one day we can get together and talk about like cult type [ __ ] because that's one of the things about cults.

[00:57:14]Every cult I've ever studied or watched any type of documentary on, one facet of the cult is free labor.

[00:57:23]Think about how much free labor the church used to get out of [ __ ] And still today, >> like people be spending 30, 40 hours a week working for their church for free.

[00:57:34]>> But I didn't want to do that. I wanted people who provide services to our ministry to be compensated fairly for what they give. So I I share that with my community and we all come together and we make it happen.

[00:57:45]>> So your church is just virtual >> 99%.

[00:57:49]99% virtual on Patreon.

[00:57:52]>> Are you going to ever Okay. Are you going to ever start a physical >> Well, we have physical gatherings throughout the year.

[00:57:59]>> Where you ever met?

[00:58:00]>> So April 18th, we going to be at Neighborhood Church. That's a Saturday at 4. It's actually >> a week from tomorrow. We'll be at neighborhood church at 4:00 for worship.

[00:58:10]And then in August, we have our annual celebrations. It's like a whole weekend.

[00:58:15]It's called Dayfest. And we have like a welcome party. We have a a brunch. We have a cigar party at worship.

[00:58:23]>> Wait a minute. Cigar party at the church. Hallelujah.

[00:58:26]>> What about we y'all smoke weed over there, too? Uh, >> we don't have organized weed smoking, but a whole lot of us are weed smokers.

[00:58:34]>> Wait, you smoke weed, too?

[00:58:36]>> Yeah.

[00:58:36]>> Oh.

[00:58:38]Okay.

[00:58:39]>> Yeah, >> you real unorthodox.

[00:58:42]>> Here's the thing. It's not that I'm the only one that does it. I'm just comfortable enough to say it.

[00:58:48]>> I know.

[00:58:50]>> I I know I know I know I know I know people's favorite pastors. Okay. I know what these [ __ ] do.

[00:58:54]>> I know people's favorite pastor, too.

[00:58:56]You know how many times that I've been a first lady?

[00:59:00]>> See, folk be hiding. I just don't want to hide. That's my thing.

[00:59:04]>> I don't want to hide. I'm being I was joking a little bit.

[00:59:07]>> No, no, no, she wasn't. No, she wasn't.

[00:59:10]No, she wasn't.

[00:59:14]>> No, she wasn't. She's telling the truth.

[00:59:15]>> Oh my god. I was joking a little bit.

[00:59:17]>> Yeah, you ain't got to say nobody name.

[00:59:18]>> Oh, that was Listen, I ain't my thing.

[00:59:20]>> Yeah, me neither.

[00:59:20]>> I don't get into that.

[00:59:21]>> I don't tell on nobody, but I know.

[00:59:23]>> So, but I and I want I know we got to do Benny, [ __ ] I know. But I I but I have to ask him this. I I've I've my first kind of sexual experience is was in church.

[00:59:34]>> Yeah.

[00:59:35]>> Why does that happen a lot? Why do you think that happens a lot?

[00:59:38]>> There's a lot of builtup, repressed sexual energy in church because of how adamant the doctrine is about controlling your sexuality. So, we be in there looking for outlets. I know when I I mean and then and then I don't know how old you were, but like when we were kids.

[00:59:58]>> Yeah.

[00:59:59]>> Yeah. Like there's not as much like supervision at church as there is at school. And then you know you there with all of your friends so you know where the nooks and the crannies are and >> you know I think most church kids had a sexual experience in the church.

[01:00:15]>> Yes.

[01:00:16]>> I I'm one of them. I mean >> Yeah. So we ate alone, right? choir rehearsals. And >> there was uh one time on our podcast, one of the members of our community told a story about some kids having sex in the baptismal pool.

[01:00:30]That was you?

[01:00:35]I mean, I didn't have sex in the baptism pool. I just like right after I right Oh, God. She's forgot.

[01:00:41]>> Tell him when you saw >> Well, God saw it right after I was baptized. You know, I was baptized at seven.

[01:00:48]>> Oh, wow.

[01:00:50]Seven.

[01:00:50]>> And what happened at seven?

[01:00:52]>> Well, after I was baptized, I got out of the we went to the back and all the other they put the boys in one area and they, you know, and so the men were they're taking off their stuff and everybody's naked and I had an erection looking at other the other naked men.

[01:01:06]>> Yeah. Involuntary bodily reactions. You >> No, it went involuntary. I just saw other dicks in there. I was like, "Ooh, >> I'm saying your dick got hard."

[01:01:14]>> Yeah.

[01:01:15]>> I mean, yeah. That's a I mean, that's what the body does.

[01:01:17]>> It was involuntary. It was voluntarily hard of this [ __ ] but it was just chill. I just I was >> [ __ ] got a mind of it own.

[01:01:23]>> Yeah, but it's just like But Fred, I just had got baptized. So that means whatever was stuff was and this was I was a confusing part of me. I was supposed to be washed and cleansed.

[01:01:32]>> But sex isn't a bad thing that you need to be cleansed from.

[01:01:34]>> So was I ever dirty?

[01:01:36]>> You weren't like baptism is a >> Was I ever dirty?

[01:01:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. Like wasn't I supposed to be cleansed?

[01:01:49]The church has spent so much time stigmatizing sex that we think it is a problem that has to be solved.

[01:01:57]But my my my friend Dr. Delman Coat says sex is not a problem that has to be solved. It's an appetite that has to be managed. Like you can be unhealthy in your appetite. You can be healthy in your appetite. But like an appetite itself is not a negative thing that you need to be delivered from.

[01:02:17]Now, >> but I was seven.

[01:02:20]>> Uh, so sevenyear-olds have like bodily reactions to sexual things.

[01:02:28]>> But a boy looking at another man.

[01:02:30]>> That's actually very natural for a lot of boys.

[01:02:34]>> Oh. Oh, Jesus.

[01:02:38]>> I mean, would you notice though?

[01:02:39]>> I do.

[01:02:40]>> Yeah, >> I do, friend.

[01:02:41]>> Most people in my position just wouldn't acknowledge it. I'm glad.

[01:02:45]>> We just don't want to acknowledge the reality. You know what I'm saying? Let's just be real about stuff. What? I don't want to fake.

[01:02:51]>> Yes.

[01:02:52]>> I'm not interested.

[01:02:53]>> I can't.

[01:02:53]>> Yeah. No, thank you. Let's just be real.

[01:02:55]>> Cuz now you cuz then you start doing then then you get trapped up in scandals like uh I don't want to call any of the pastor's name, but you get trapped up in scandals because you hiding, hiding, hiding, hiding.

[01:03:04]>> Yeah.

[01:03:06]>> And I always say usually the majority of times when pastors are preaching so heavily against something, that's a struggle.

[01:03:12]>> Absolutely. It absolutely is all the time.

[01:03:17]>> It's a struggle. Like that's something that that's what they initi that's what they initially went to God for.

[01:03:22]>> Yeah. I've had them in my inbox before.

[01:03:26]>> Change me, oh God.

[01:03:27]>> It's like people see my advocacy and think, "Oh, he must be advocating for himself."

[01:03:31]>> Yeah.

[01:03:32]>> Cuz he got an issue, too. And it's like, nah, man. I just want everybody to be okay.

[01:03:35]>> No, you just got to let everybody know, friend, you ain't really going to hell.

[01:03:39]>> That's it. Be yourself.

[01:03:41]>> Just be yourself. You going to hell.

[01:03:42]Don't cause harm to people. Live your life.

[01:03:45]>> Yeah. Cuz you ain't going to hell. You got to figure that out when you get in front of the Most High.

[01:03:49]>> Yeah.

[01:03:50]>> Yeah. All right. So, we done came to uh my favorite segment of the show. It's called Ban It, [ __ ] Now, some people are out here banning drag shows, LGBTQ plus books, and even our very existence.

[01:04:01]But we're flipping the script. What's something you would ban if you ran the world? Here's how it works. We each get one minute to make our case for what needs to go. The producers in the back will keep track of time and call out when there's 30 seconds and 10 seconds left. Let me kick it off to show you how it works.

[01:04:20]>> All right.

[01:04:23]>> My name is TS Madison and if I ran the world, I would ban giving us one communion cracker.

[01:04:33]I would ban like for my for my Christian folks that go that go to that go to uh the uh the first Sunday child, they be giving you that one communion cracker and they give you that one little cup of wine and say, "Do this in remembrance of me. Drink the blood. Eat the body." I'm like, "Damn, can y'all at least pass me two pieces of the rib? Can I have at least one of the rib and the and the thigh?" I mean, my god, why would y'all give me one of them good ass communion crackers and that little bit of small edges? You know them communion crackers be dried in a [ __ ] We need a whole cup of wine. We need a big gunk cup of that damn wine like that instead of giving us that little bitty ass small tiny cup of the communion wine. That's a whole body we eating. We eating the whole body. You if you mean to tell me that little piece of body is that's the body and you getting to me it's dry like that. I need a whole piece of give me the whole piece of bread and a whole [ __ ] cup of communion wine. I want to ban you [ __ ] for that. All right y'all. That's what I want.

[01:05:31]All right. So, it's your turn to do ban.

[01:05:33]You said, "My name is is Christian Smith, and if I rule the world, I would ban just go."

[01:05:38]>> Look at your camera.

[01:05:40]>> My name is Christian A. Smith, and if I ruled the world, I would ban money and politics.

[01:05:48]>> Money.

[01:05:49]>> I would ban money and politics. Money and politics is the reason that our political representatives do not represent us. It's the reason they do [ __ ] that we don't want them to do because they're not really accountable to us. They're accountable to the people that pay them. So, we will vote for certain things and they'll ignore it because they getting money from these wealthy people who are just throwing money at them and then they don't have to do anything for the good of the people. They don't have to make sure that our rent is affordable and that and that cars are affordable and that groceries are affordable and that we make a living wage and that we have access to clean water and healthy food.

[01:06:30]They ain't got to worry about that. So, I would ban money in politics so everybody could have their basic necessities met.

[01:06:36]>> All right.

[01:06:38]Well, I ain't going to ban money. I just being [ __ ] I would I don't I want to get rid of this church and state >> completely >> like like joining them or just do away with them as a whole. No more church, no more state.

[01:06:51]>> Well, no more church. No more church and state ideology.

[01:06:54]>> Combined. I got you.

[01:06:55]>> Like like we got these people in the Supreme Court and they're and they're saying that they're they're supposed to like be following a moral compass like well what's moral to you may not be >> exactly.

[01:07:03]>> You know what I'm saying? Like how how are you governing the way people want?

[01:07:07]If the two gays want to get married, let their [ __ ] ass go through that [ __ ] >> Yeah.

[01:07:11]>> Let them go through that and let them go through divorce. Let them take all that [ __ ] >> Yeah.

[01:07:16]>> Let them split. Let them have their healthcare and their insurance and stuff like that. Ain't nobody get none of my [ __ ] money.

[01:07:22]>> Just let people live.

[01:07:23]>> Ain't nobody get none of my mother.

[01:07:25]>> I don't blame you.

[01:07:25]>> When a when a when I split from a [ __ ] [ __ ] to death do us part, you dead to me. Now part your ass the [ __ ] out of here. You got 24 hours to vacate the priv. And don't let me be in a relationship with a [ __ ] [ __ ] Cuz when I die, you best understand that it's in my will.

[01:07:40]>> I'mma have some big [ __ ] come move your ass out of there.

[01:07:44]>> I don't know why, but I believe you.

[01:07:46]>> I'm dead ass serious. I can't be [ __ ] with no [ __ ] And I, you know, and and you think you going to be you going to be rolling around with another [ __ ] on the sheets that we bought? That [ __ ] you already been [ __ ] I know you've been [ __ ] that [ __ ] You think I'm gonna let you come over here and bring that [ __ ] to my house? No, >> you done thought this through.

[01:08:02]>> Oh, I know this. I used to be a hooker and there's so many things that I've learned about men through through sex work.

[01:08:12]>> And my friend usually tells me that I'm scarred. No, I'm wiser because of the things. You know what I'm saying? And I I I and and no, every man ain't no trick, but he might be.

[01:08:26]>> He has the potential.

[01:08:27]>> He has a He has a dick.

[01:08:28]>> He has the potential. And that the dick is the potential.

[01:08:31]>> Yes, it is.

[01:08:32]>> That's the potential. And this is what I try to explain to people when people be talking to me about what when when we go through this [ __ ] about [ __ ] I'm like, man, don't talk to me about no down. A [ __ ] that [ __ ] can do anything. I don't want to hear that [ __ ] A man that [ __ ] can do anything. So [ __ ] don't come ask me about nothing with no down.

[01:08:48]Just protect yourself.

[01:08:50]>> Yeah.

[01:08:51]>> Because you don't know. I just told you I was seven years old and a [ __ ] was we was in the [ __ ] neck and I was in that [ __ ] I got a dick. So I KNOW I COULD TELL you >> if the [ __ ] stand up anything can happen.

[01:09:04]>> Got a mind of it own.

[01:09:05]>> THAT'S IT.

[01:09:05]>> GOT A MIND OF IT own >> that I'm strictly dickly cuz I tried to find out >> and that's just it didn't work.

[01:09:19]And so I know that I'm a woman through a woman inside and out >> through and through. When it comes a heterosexual woman is trapped up in up in >> a heterosexual black [ __ ] woman is trapped in this [ __ ] I She just got a dick.

[01:09:36]>> I'm trapped in this [ __ ] So I know what's going on. But also the [ __ ] in me knows the a [ __ ] >> Yeah. So, and and when people when I talk to people, I tell people all the time, Christian, like I enjoy I I I don't think people really understand I enjoy being on the cusp of everything.

[01:09:57]>> I'm a Libra Scorpio. I'm male, female.

[01:10:01]I'm You know what I'm saying? I'm Christian. You know what's interesting >> in in some indigenous cultures >> and you probably know this you read >> um >> their version of trans people some in some cultures is two spirit people >> they were seen as actually having a greater sense of connection to the divine because they represent multiple divine energies in one person.

[01:10:34]>> Yes. Like so even if you were to use the Bible and the creation story when the text says that God said let us make humanity in our image and then >> they created male and female. That means divinity has both of those energies flowing through it. Correct. that is also supported in the the theology of the trinity. God the father, the son and the holy spirit. Spirit in both ancient languages of the text, spirit is a feminine term. So when I refer to the spirit, I always say she.

[01:11:16]>> Yes.

[01:11:17]>> Always. So when we see the divine, we see masculine feminine energy. You know, the the divine feminine is a thing. So there yeah there are indigenous cultures that have seen trans people or people of trans experience as having a closer connection to the divine which is interesting. Well like when you said you hear from God and people was like you can't hear from God like you queer but but that actually might mean you closer.

[01:11:45]It might mean you closer.

[01:11:47]>> I hear from God constantly constantly. Sometimes I be like oh god no please.

[01:11:54]or sometime I'm like, "Oh god." Listen, when that [ __ ] was when I was [ __ ] around with this ragged ass [ __ ] I went to sleep and woke up with his phone, his pin number, his phone uh pass >> Oh, wow.

[01:12:07]>> I went to sleep and woke up and I was like, "Nah."

[01:12:10]>> And it and it was right.

[01:12:12]>> That [ __ ] got over in the shower with the full confidence. Left his phone, got over there in the shout to full confidence. I went over there. I was like, "Let me." And that's it. I said, >> "Did you find what you was looking for?

[01:12:23]Cuz if you go looking, you going to find it.

[01:12:29]>> Well, I'm glad I did.

[01:12:32]>> There was things that I found that I'm glad I did, though.

[01:12:35]>> Mhm.

[01:12:35]>> And that was the That was the divine telling me, you got to vacate these premises.

[01:12:39]>> Mhm.

[01:12:41]>> You got to vacate these premises or or it's going to throw you off the course that I got for you to do. I believe that divine has me on a course.

[01:12:49]I believe the divine has you on a course.

[01:12:50]>> I agree with that. And so when when there are things that are in the way, that means boyfriends, that means girlfriends, that means positions, that means I will move that [ __ ] [ __ ] out the way cuz what I need for to be done will happen.

[01:13:08]>> Yeah. And for me, anything that cost me my piece is too expensive. So that's how I think about it.

[01:13:14]>> Christian, it was wonderful.

[01:13:15]>> This was great.

[01:13:16]>> We're going to do this again. We must We must do this again, honey. And I got to come over there cuz I I'll be fist. I'm going I'm going to come over there and crank it up in that [ __ ] >> You're coming.

[01:13:25]>> Yes.

[01:13:26]>> Yeah.

[01:13:26]>> I'm coming to crank up over there.

[01:13:27]>> I can tell you right now, they can't wait.

[01:13:29]>> Oh, yes. All right. It say 30 seconds.

[01:13:33]All right. Well, [ __ ] We done did it.

[01:13:34]God damn it. We gone. Tell them where to find you at, honey. For the folks that's that's just running into you.

[01:13:39]>> Yeah. What am I this camera and this camera? All right. So, I'm uh Christian A. Smith. You can find me on Tik Tok, Instagram, Facebook at and threads the Christian A. Smith and it's Christian with a K. So it's the K R I S T I A N A Smith. Um and then if you want to get some of our long form content like podcasts and longer segments, you can go to our YouTube channel. That's TFC.verirtual stands for the faith community virtual.

[01:14:11]And if you want to join us, like you want to be a part of the programming that we do, the weekly live streams and everything that we do, we over on Patreon. TFC Virtual. Check us out.

[01:14:20]>> TFC Virtual.

[01:14:21]>> TFC Virtual.

[01:14:22]>> What that TFC mean?

[01:14:24]>> The faith community.

[01:14:24]>> Okay. Cuz I was close to KFC.

[01:14:28]>> Nah.

[01:14:29]>> Anyway, listen. Thank y'all for tuning in. We love you a lot. See y'all the next time. Bye.

[01:14:39]>> Is it still on? Is it still recording?

[01:14:41]Honey, you [ __ ] is still here. Make sure this is what you do. Get down there to www.patreon.com/outlaws with tsmadison. Honey, you got to tune in, honey. We still talking, child. A lot of y'all can't stay on for hour. But the rest of y'all that can come on to the Patreon. www.patreon.comoutlaws withtsmadison.