New Zealand can no longer take its security for granted: Defence minister

追加: 2026-05-30

[00:00:00]New Zealand is in the middle of its biggest defense reset in years, looking to nearly double its defense spend to 2% of GDP by 2033. But, the New Zealand Defense Force has suffered from years of underfunding in peacetime, and there are questions about whether even this spending hike is enough.

[00:00:19]Walatara Chui joins us now live from the Shangri-La Dialogue in Singapore. Chui, I believe you've just finished talking to New Zealand Defense Minister Chris Penk. Tell us Walk us through What did he say?

[00:00:34]>> Well, it's a tough security environment, and after years of being protected by the seas, New Zealand now has to respond, to adapt, and to spend the money. Mr. Chris Penk was appointed Defense Minister last month, and this is his first outing at the Shangri-La Dialogue here in Singapore. I started by asking him whether New Zealand is looking to play a bigger role in the Indo-Pacific.

[00:00:58]>> Well, I think New Zealand's always been present in the Indo-Pacific. Clearly, the Asia region is really important for us. We trade in important ways, both as export markets, but of course, import too. Strong people-to-people links, and for all the reasons that we consider ourselves an Asian nation, it's important that we retain those links, and of course, are present in a defense capacity. As for our Pacific Island neighbors, it's important that we uh support their aspirations, and are respectful of their desire that we have an ocean of peace. So, anything that we can do to contribute to that, and of course, for others to see that part of the world in the same light is is helpful for us to be able to do.

[00:01:38]So, we'll continue to do search and rescue activities, humanitarian assistance, and disaster relief in the event of severe weather events and earthquakes and other natural disasters.

[00:01:47]And of course, we want to contribute strongly as well in the field of fisheries protection, very dear to the hearts of our Pacific cousins, Uh, and also uh, organized crime such as drug smuggling.

[00:01:59]>> Ocean of peace, you say. And you've also said that the seas are no longer a safety barrier for New Zealand. Today, you call them actually vital national interests to be secured.

[00:02:09]From whom and from what?

[00:02:10]>> Yeah, well, it's a an interest to be secured against any external threats, uh, to, uh, New Zealand's way of life. And of course, as a maritime nation, uh, we're heavily dependent on the sea. Once upon a time, it felt as though it was a buffer between us and the rest of the world or a safety barrier, as we've said. Uh, but now, uh, realizing that we can't take for granted the territorial integrity of, uh, the 12 nautical mile limit that we have, but our exclusive economic zone and the other interests that we have in terms of freedom of navigation, uh, and of course, um, the, uh, airways and and on the sea routes as well. Uh, we know that we need to protect against any, uh, sovereign incursion or any threat to those kinds of interests that we have.

[00:02:52]>> You're very careful not to name any names or you define any specific threats here. Um, but there have been recent incidents. Uh, China has accused a New Zealand patrol aircraft of harassment at sea last month. And last year, uh, the Chinese navy held live-fire drills in the Tasman Sea that diverted uh, commercial flights.

[00:03:11]How close did these incidents get to becoming dangerous confrontations?

[00:03:17]>> In terms of the, um, People's Liberation Army Navy task force last year in the Tasman Sea that you've quite rightly referred to, uh, we uh, expressed publicly, but also privately, our, um, unease with the fact that, uh, live firings took place in a way that disrupted commercial, uh, aviation. Uh, we know that it's important that, uh, we behave in a predictable, consistent, uh, stable fashion, and we do. Uh, but we expect that of others, too, including China. Uh, so, with the, uh, recent incident in which, uh, China had said publicly, uh, that New Zealand, uh, was, um, operating in an area um, that it was not entitled to.

[00:03:55]Our very clear view is actually and is backed by the evidence of our navigation systems that we were operating in exactly an area that we were entitled to do and in fact conducting operations in support of the UN mandated sanctions against North Korea. So we have every right to be present in those ways and we'll continue to do that.

[00:04:15]>> How concerned are you about you know further misunderstandings, miscalculations at sea with you know the presence continuing presence of New Zealand in these regional waters?

[00:04:26]>> Yeah, it's important for all key players in the region and everyone who's present whether in the air or on the sea or on land for that matter to act in a way that is both safe and professional. New Zealand will continue to do that and we call on others to act in the same way.

[00:04:41]>> The New Zealand Defense Force is small, 15,000 people in total including reserves and civilian personnel. Last year your predecessor Judith Collins actually said the NZDF was in ICU.

[00:04:55]Is the spending hike on defense 2% of GDP enough to take the force out of intensive care?

[00:05:01]>> Yeah, I I think we're on the path to a much better place and I think it's important that we have that upward trajectory but of course there's an open question about whether we should move faster and every two years following the release of last year's defense capability plan we've committed to reviewing progress and if necessary speeding up our trajectory to 2% of GDP but we won't review it in a way that would see us spend less. So in that sense we're mindful of the need to react to circumstances as they change.

[00:05:34]In terms of personnel numbers though I think it's fair to say that while we have a relatively small defense force and we'll always be small by international comparison to larger nations at the same time we've got the opportunity through technological advancement including in uncrewed systems to be quite capable as a relatively small nation and without a lot of sailors and soldiers and aviators necessarily to be able to punch above our weight.

[00:06:00]>> Yeah, and yeah, you say that Singapore and New Zealand together can do force multiplying. What do you mean by that?

[00:06:06]>> What I mean is that we're stronger together. So there's an aspect of interoperability that sees if we have the same equipment then we can understand those systems and work well together and and cooperate in that way. But actually there's also a force multiply element where if we have different systems, different expertise among our personnel and different niches then in all kinds of different environments between us we can cover the eventualities. So it might be for example that New Zealand continues to have a replenishment ship for example we've got one at the moment that refuels Australian vessels quite often and if we can do that work alongside Australia as well as Singapore then we'll ensure that we've got our respective fleets out in the South China Sea or the Tasman Sea as the case may be or wherever on the globe in a way that increases the ability and the capability of all.