Kitkat Playroom: Ferdy’s Unusual MRI Results

[00:00:01]Hi, titties.

[00:00:04]Yeah.

[00:00:06]Come here.

[00:00:09][laughter] There she is.

[00:00:36]Hi Esther.

[00:00:39]Hi Kate.

[00:00:43]Hey Dr. J.

[00:00:46]Hi Kelly. Hi Zeno.

[00:00:54]Hi, Cat.

[00:00:56]Hi, Arch Angel. Hey, babies. Hey, Lumis.

[00:00:59]Hi, Joe. Hi, Jordan. Hi, Debbie.

[00:01:04]Hi, Kathy. Hi, Entropy.

[00:01:09]A, Hi, Pepper. [laughter] Hi, Jim. Hi, Jennifer.

[00:01:16]Hi, Christy. Hi, Mauie. Oh, Tate's leaving me. That was it.

[00:01:22]That was her quick hello. Goodbye.

[00:01:28]All right. So, um, thanks in advance to you Zeno for CCing second MRI update in a row.

[00:01:53]Hi, Wy and Willow.

[00:01:57]All right, so um yeah. Yeah, it's definitely a lesson in vocabulary and spelling, medical terminology and spelling.

[00:02:14]>> [sighs] >> here. So, um I'm going to give an update on FY.

[00:02:22][snorts] Um FY about um a little over two months ago arrived from Wisconsin.

[00:02:36]Um he was pretty dumpy when he arrived. He went to the our neuro team um right away. They did a brain tap, removed a bunch of fluid, and he immediately perked up and he had been good um for the next two months. No concerns um no signs of neuro decline um no signs of neuro anything. In fact, um we uh or I had tried to wean him off of some of the hydromeds and that didn't go very well. So, he's continued on hydromeds, but um his doses hadn't increased in several months. So, he was on a very low dose um probably not even therapeutic level.

[00:03:37]um and we thought he's doing so well that um I had him neutered and he was up for adoption. In fact, um you know, a week ago um if we had an approved adopter, you know, he would have he would have gone home. We have packed his suitcase in preparation for him to leave sometime soon.

[00:04:05]Um and so his recent issues were a big surprise.

[00:04:14]Um about a week ago he [sighs and gasps] um started crying out, growling, um acting unusual.

[00:04:30]He was sleepier than normal. He's usually a kitten who is bouncing off the walls, um, wrestling, running, and he was not doing much of that. Um, he seemed to be in pain um because if you touched him um or tried to pick him up, he would growl louder.

[00:05:00]And so, um, I thought that it was in in feeling around, we thought it was something abdominal and so we brought him initially to our local ER, not thinking it was something neurological.

[00:05:15]Um, they did some stuff, gave him some GI meds, that sort of thing, treated him for a GI issue. Um, and he just hasn't gotten better.

[00:05:30]And so, um, last night he, uh, was acting [sighs] worse, um, you know, growling, you know, more, um, pretty lethargic.

[00:05:44]And so, um, we brought him back to the ER.

[00:05:48]Um, and he was transferred to our Noro team.

[00:05:56]Um, Noro looked at him early this morning and uh concluded, you know, that he did have neurological um concerns and um they wanted to do an MRI. So they were able to get him in for an MRI immediately, which is incredible on a Saturday especially.

[00:06:27]Um, but within like an hour, they had already called me. Dr. Glass called me with results. So it was very fast and the results are not what I expected. Um, and it's and it's a little depressing to be honest. Um, so I'm just going to kind of warn you guys that this is not great news. [sighs] Um, so what we thought was initially what we thought was, you know, minor hydrophilis, um, is not. So first things first, he has hydrphily, not hydrophilis.

[00:07:19]Hydran and I sent the spelling of that to Zeno in advance. Um, we first saw with Kenna when Kenna had her MRI. Um we first saw that term hydran and seephille and the difference is that in hydran and seephille the brain is initially not fully developed. So um in case like the top third of his brain just doesn't exist. It never developed.

[00:08:04]Um it's very misshapen.

[00:08:08]Um there are some parts in the back that are not that are not there. And so um the space where the brain does not has not grown um you know during during in uterero um it fills with cerebral spinal fluid.

[00:08:31]So when you see an MRI of their head, it is filled with white, which is the CSF, the cerebral spinal fluid, and it looks very similar to hydrophilis.

[00:08:46][sighs and gasps] But the difference is in hydrophilis, um the brain is fully intact. It's just squished.

[00:08:56]um the the fluid puts so much pressure on it that um the brain does not have room to grow.

[00:09:06][snorts] Um but you know it's a it's a fully intact brain in hydran and seephille the reason the fluid that is there is because the brain um in utero has not fully developed.

[00:09:23]So the difference the the main um reason this matters is because in most cases with hydran and see the reason that there's all of this extra fluid in their head is not due to an obstruction or some kind of flow problem like it is in hydrophilis.

[00:09:47]So a shunt is not going to in most cases fix anything. Um because it's not about having overabundance of fluid that's you know putting pressure in their head.

[00:10:06][sighs] Um it's also the reason why Freddie does not have a classic domed forehead. He doesn't have the classic sunset eyes.

[00:10:19]Um, you know, he doesn't look classically hydrophilis. He did more so when he was younger, but now if you look at him, um, you can't, you wouldn't even tell just by out, you know, external, um, visibility that he has anything going on. So um so um that should be if that was the only thing that was wrong um that actually would be a relief because hydranine is not as severe usually as hydrophilis.

[00:11:00]The [sighs and gasps] um upsetting part and the part that was surprising is that he has what's called Kiari malf for which is when the cerebellum um is not tucked inside the skull but it's actually pushed out and lives inside the spinal column.

[00:11:30]um the top of the spine and when the cerebellum is uh protruding outside of the skull in that way and is wrapped essentially in in the vertebrae.

[00:11:48]um it is um constricted and can affect a lot of different motor functions and um even um things like breathing.

[00:12:04]Um and so the [sighs] reason that he is growling and crying out um is because of this kiari malfformation.

[00:12:19]Now it um it could be pain. It's possible um that that condition does cause pain. Um it might not be pain. It might just be um it's actually very common like if you um even Google Kiari malfformation symptoms um growling and um behavior like personality changes is actually uh a very common trait of this condition.

[00:12:50]And so um Dr. Glass had said, you know, he has seen very friendly, loving cats go to like raging lunatics um who have had this condition um because their personality and mood changes so dramatically. Um and so, you know, that's why we're seeing um these, you know, this going on in Freddy.

[00:13:19]um you know the the [sighs and gasps] less severe issues are you know it can cause some balance issues which they're seeing a little bit that you know he's stumbling a bit um and um you know I um I think you know we we might have seen that a little bit like here but you know it's nothing like Fen or you know we've seen really wobbly kittens here. Um, and he's not affected in in that way. Um, but we've certainly seen the personality changes. We've seen the grumbles. Um, and um, like I said, it can affect their breathing.

[00:14:10]And so the scariest thing about this condition is that um it can cause sudden death and that is something that made my heart stop um you know I stopped breathing for a minute um because that's terrifying. Um, it's not it's not a guaranteed um, you know, um, life-threatening condition. Um, but it is, you know, it's something that can happen, um, without any notice at all. [snorts] So, um, [sighs] um, yeah, I know. I know you guys. Um and so you know the question right now um you know about his future is it's just entirely unknown um he could live a very long life, he could live a very short life and there's absolutely no way to predict um which of those is going to be. So [sighs] [gasps] that's really tough to accept and and swallow um as far as um managing and treating the condition.

[00:15:43]Um they're first he's going to spend a couple days there at the hospital um where they're just going to um try do medical management to try to make him more comfortable. Try to get him to um you know stop growling as much. Maybe try to relieve some of the pressure um on his cerebellum, things like that. Um, so, um, you know, that's going to be, um, you know, kind of the short-term plan is to just get him to a point where, um, you know, he's not upset like he was when he first went in. So, um you know, he'll be there for a couple days as they work on um both some hydro meds to reduce the swelling and um pressure and some pain meds to manage any pain that he feels. Um the [sighs] um longer term option is surgery.

[00:16:55]And um the surgery option in cats is the same as a human where they remove um part of the bone at the base of the skull and essentially create more room for the cerebellum. Um so that the spinal cord is not totally constricting.

[00:17:25]um the cerebellum. And so it basically just allows allows that space to kind of expand a bit um you know in the hopes that it it isn't affecting them as dramatically.

[00:17:41]There's no [sighs and gasps] you know permanent you can't put the cerebellum back into the brain. That's you know at least in 2026 that's not an option. Um, so there's no fix to it. Um, but the removal of the bone, um, you know, hopefully alleviates the symptoms or most of the symptoms.

[00:18:09]Um, [sighs] you know, that's kind of where we are.

[00:18:17]Um, you know, we haven't 100% committed to the surgery yet. Um, you know, Dr. Glass just kind of left it as, you know, this is an option in the future. Should we pursue it? I think, um, you know, our the focus right now is just to, um, you know, try to get him to a little bit more comfortable. um before we before we make any surgical plans. Um but that's where we are. Um I mean you know um in addition to the extra fluid the um the kiari malfformation you know the brain itself is extremely malformed. Um the left side of his brain is not even connected fully connected to the right side of his brain. It's um in it's largely flea free flowing um in in fluid. Um and so you know it the brain his brain itself is uh very strangely shaped and developed.

[00:19:44]Um, so that's a, you know, it's another factor, um, you know, in things that could go wrong down the line, you know, that, you know, we don't know how that's going to affect, you know, anything. Um, you know, right now I don't think that it's doing much. I think right now it's the Kiari malfformation that's affecting him.

[00:20:10]Um but you know the future for him is just such a huge unknown.

[00:20:19]Um, yeah. I mean, the fact that he went two months convinced convincing me that he was a completely normal kitten. Um, to the point that I was going to just, you know, adopt him out um is wild. you know, um you know, he masked all of this. [sighs] So, um you know, I'm in a little bit of shock um that this is as serious as it is um because um I would have never guessed that all this was going on in his head.

[00:21:05]Um, yeah. Oh, thanks for sharing that, Eva.

[00:21:19]Having a friend who had the surgery and it saved your life. That's really promising to hear.

[00:21:26]Um, yeah. So, um, you know, I feel like, um, you know, after talking with Dr. Glass, you know, I feel like if surgery is recommended, um, you know, we we'll want to go forward with it. Um, you know, why would we not give him a chance? And if it works to alleviate his discomfort and prolongs his life, you know, let's do it. Um, but you know, we're not at a point yet where we're making that that decision just yet.

[00:22:10]You know, Jill, it definitely made me think about, you know, the fact that we don't scan all of our hydros. Um, Jake's never been scanned. Um, Eden had a CT scan done, so, you know, that was close enough. Um but um I think Jake actually might be the only one that we haven't done um besides you know like fax is not big enough yet and things like that.

[00:22:43]Um this so this morning um you know this was the good news. He was on he was at the hospital last night and was on um IV meds that are typically given, you know, when a when a cat has an ICP spike. Um so it's IV manitol and IV Lasix. And this morning he was like bright and alert, his eyes wide open. I have a picture from Ann who picked him up. Um and he looks, you know, he has a cone on, but he looks like himself. Um he's sitting up. He's, you know, wideeyed just looking right at the camera. Um so he's in much better. You know, as of this morning, he's feeling a lot better.

[00:23:30]And you know, that was just from some medication. So, um, you know, I I feel like, you know, he's as long as right now, um, you know, he continues that way, um, you know, he's he's doing better. So, um, yeah, he's not anywhere like he was last night in the room. Um, he's still growling. Um, but you know, mentation wise, you know, he's last night he like didn't want to move and was just laying there like a blob. So, [snorts] um, he's not at that point. I doubt that they fed him this morning cuz they had to give him an MRI. So, I don't have an answer about food.

[00:24:25]Um, yeah. So, so that's kind of where we are. Um, I don't know if I missed if I missed your question. Now is a good time to ask. I'm watching chat now for any questions.

[00:24:43]Um, [clears throat] you know, to me it was surprising because I didn't even realize this was a neurological thing going on with him. I really thought it was a GI thing initially. That's what the ER thought as well that it was a GI thing. And you know, we kind of got thrown for a loop when it when um last night's doctor said, "I think this is neurological."

[00:25:13][snorts] So [sighs and gasps] um the mood change is because of the pressure on the cerebellum. So if you can reduce the pressure on it um you can um better their mood.

[00:25:37]What stage is he? I don't know what that means.

[00:25:54]When he comes ball, will he be when he comes ball?

[00:26:01]Does that mean you mean when he comes home? [laughter] Um, I don't know if there's any stages. It you're probably talking about in humans, not a cat.

[00:26:26]Um, [sighs] yeah. I don't know if he's going to be upstairs or downstairs. I don't even know if he's going to have surgery.

[00:26:36]Yeah, that's so far in the future. I don't know.

[00:26:44]Um, is the cerebone fully grown or will it put more pressure on the spine as Freddy grows? Um, I think that's an unknown. Um, no, he's not fully grown at this point and he's still growing. Um, so, you know, it is possible that it could get worse in time, but there's no way to say that for sure.

[00:27:27][sighs and snorts] [gasps] Yeah, empathy. I mean, I think that's part, you know, that's what's hard about figuring out if FY's in pain or not.

[00:27:37]Like, if he has a headache, there's no way for a cat to tell you he has a headache. Um, you know, you know, other than like he's growling. Um so um yeah I mean I you know it was it was encouraging to hear them say you know it might not be pain that this that you know that they've seen even hydro cats who react such a way just because they feel strange like that you know the the an ICP spike like just makes them feel weird. Um, and so they can just be grumpy from that. And so, um, yeah, I, you know, but there's just there's no way to detect, you know, how they feel inside. So, we just don't know.

[00:28:40]Well, that's interesting, Lumos, cuz I've never heard of brains not being connected.

[00:28:45]where the hemisphere is not being connected.

[00:28:55]Um, I don't know how how they'll decide if they suggest surgery or not. It's just something, you know, Dr. Glass just said this is a potential option in the future and, you know, that's it. So, um, that's just something we'll have to discuss in the future.

[00:29:14]Oh, sorry. ICP spike is intraranial pressure. So when the pressure in their head increases suddenly, that's an ICP spike.

[00:29:40]Intraranial Eva's got it right.

[00:30:01]So, we've seen um kittens who their cerebellum has herniated um enter into their spinal column um when they've had an ICP spike um including Finnegan. in which was to everyone's surprise because he was acting pretty normal.

[00:30:30]But on his MRI, his cerebellum had herniated which means that it the pressure was so high in his head that it pushed his cerebellum out and into his spinal column. But that was a temporary thing. Um because once the pressure is reduced in most cases that cerebellum then retreats back into the skull. Um in Freddy's case you know this is a permanent condition.

[00:31:06]So [sighs and gasps] yeah, um this is not the first case in any way that Dr. Glass has seen kiari malf formations. Um he sees them quite often in Persians.

[00:31:25]It's it's actually a common um mal formation in Persian cats.

[00:31:33]And um he said if he had only seen the MRI and he hadn't seen Fie what he looks like, he would have assumed that this was a Persian cat. So um he's um you know he's done the surgery to remove the piece of the skull and um you know he's you know he's got experience with this.

[00:32:00]So um I mean collectively it you know normally it doesn't go handinhand with Hydrron and Sephily but um you know I don't think I don't think that he's you know out of depth here. Um, he certainly um is the only person I'd be trusting right now.

[00:32:35]I know, Titi. It did make me wonder if he has Persian in him.

[00:32:39]>> [laughter] >> That does um that does question whether I should use one of my DNA tests on him. [laughter] Yeah, I know. I mean, he does look a little exotic to me, so I wouldn't be entirely surprised if he had some exotic jeans in him.

[00:33:45]I did get a DNA test for Finnegan and Fax um during Amazon Prime Days that I haven't I haven't collected their samples yet, but um I do plan on getting them the two of them DNA tested. I'm just curious.

[00:34:18]Yeah. So, um we've put his adoption bio on hold um for now. you know, this is going to be a much longer process than um than you know just having surgery and recovering and getting adopted. So things have just gotten very complex regarding any future adoption. Um, so we're just putting any, you know, all of that on hold for now and we'll just plan to have him with us for a while longer.

[00:34:59]Vax is a unicorn alien in kitten form.

[00:35:02][laughter] Um I don't so hydrophilis is not genetic. Um so I don't know about Kiari malfformation if that's genetic. Um my guess is no. Well, my guess is this that his siblings are not affected at all by this, but um I don't know that for sure.

[00:35:43]I mean, they they follow us, so they'll they'll know.

[00:35:55]He might tire of us.

[00:35:59]Yeah. You know, I um I really thought Freddy was going to be like the fastest hydro we ever adopted out. That was that was my guess. Um but I am relieved that um he was not adopted and then all of this happened. you know, we he could have been in Arkansas um when all of this happened, you know, and nowhere near Dr. Glass, maybe even nowhere near like an experienced neurologist. So, um, I feel very grateful that he was here and we could respond so quickly to, you know, some of some of these symptoms.

[00:37:02]Um, so I mean, yeah, as far as helping goes, um, right now I did, you know, there was no time, um, we need to fund raise for his MRI and hospitalization.

[00:37:15]Um, I'll probably I think I'm going to put together a fundraising page for him.

[00:37:20]Um, the same that I did for Jean's MRI, just so that everybody can track you know, how much we've raised and how much more we need. Um, and I want a chance to kind of explain everything on, you know, its own dedicated page so somebody doesn't have to watch this whole video to get it. Um, so, you know, give me some time to put that together.

[00:37:48]You know, I probably won't get that done until maybe tomorrow.

[00:37:54]Um, yeah.

[00:38:43]All right, no more questions.

[00:38:47]I know this was a lot. Um, we've had some very um complex information the last couple days. Um, so hopefully [sighs and gasps] um everybody has a pretty good understanding of what's going on. Um, and thank you all.

[00:39:35]Yep.

[00:39:41]All right. Thanks, Zeno, for CCing. Um thanks to you guys for contributing you know your own experience from a human perspective and people you know with this condition. I appreciate that just as you know I love hearing from humans with hydrophilis and you know relating to the kittens. So thank you for that.

[00:40:09]All right, all go digest some things. Uh, go watch the Bobs and um their stressfree cam.

[00:40:18][laughter] All right, enjoy your Saturday. Bye, everyone.