Redistricting and the (Re)Rise of Jim Crow

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:01]Okay, I'm live. Hello to everyone.

[00:00:06]How is everyone?

[00:00:09]I hope you are well. Um, I hope you can see me and hear me as I as I say every week probably. Um, you guys, we're here, man. I like you're already I I now very deliberately don't look to see who's here. Hello. Uh because there are so many of you here talking and then it makes me realize I have to finish really fast which is good but um yay Rosie.

[00:00:36]Rosie is spicy this morning. I don't know why but she Rosie I don't know why Rosie Rosie all morning has been making irritated budgy noises. She has millet.

[00:00:52]I don't know why. Anyway, so just warning you ahead of time. Rosie loves history. Rosie loves you, but Rosie doesn't always express this, right, Rosie? Okay. Anyway, anyway, um he has not had I have had some coffee. She has not had coffee. Anyway, hopefully is that I hope it's not um too loud. Can you guys hear me? Even with her being sassy, she's pissed off about redistricting. That's true. That's a good a good way of putting it. Um, so hopefully it it won't be too loud since she's particularly spicy today. Right, Rosie? Okay, I see that Annie is here.

[00:01:33]Um, here we go.

[00:01:37]>> Hey, good morning. Can you hear me? Hey, there we go. Yes.

[00:01:40]>> Look, we match. It's like middle school.

[00:01:43]>> Pardon?

[00:01:44]>> I said we match. It's like middle school.

[00:01:48]That's never happened. I don't think >> I don't think that's ever happened.

[00:01:51]>> That's hilarious. I don't have a full necklace though.

[00:01:54]>> I gotta have a necklace.

[00:01:55]>> I know your statement necklaces are your thing.

[00:01:58]>> I I the necklace and the mug every Friday. I'm like Rosie is >> she's loud today.

[00:02:05]>> Yes, I could hear her even before I logged in.

[00:02:08]>> Yeah. I don't know why you haven't kn it little one.

[00:02:13]>> Redistricting brings up >> I think so things.

[00:02:17]>> I think I think I I think >> Okay. So, I wanted to ask you a question. I I didn't get to watch the talk you did last night because it was the same time as the new OAH book club for K12 teachers. As much as I love you guys, you know, I'm always going to go with the teachers. So, I did that and then I watched the replay and the whole time I was watching it, I was looking on on the table. They had Beverly's book and then the two mugs. And in my head, I'm thinking, I hope they let her take that mug so we can use matters. So, did they let you keep the mug?

[00:02:51]>> I'm not gonna answer that question.

[00:02:52]>> Okay. All right. All right. You're too much of a lady.

[00:02:56]>> Yes. That >> That's the first thing I thought of was like, "Oh, a free mug."

[00:03:00]>> That is hilarious.

[00:03:03]I didn't think of that.

[00:03:05]>> I did.

[00:03:06]>> Every time I see a mug now, I think of all of us.

[00:03:09]>> That's That's hilarious.

[00:03:10]>> It was pretty funny.

[00:03:12]>> So, anyway, um yes, I am taking the fifth. Um, you guys. Yes, Rosie is using her outside chirp.

[00:03:21]>> She really is.

[00:03:23]>> Rosie, I don't know what's up.

[00:03:26]Every time I talk to her, I think maybe she just wants attention. Is that what it is?

[00:03:30]>> Oh, >> you just want attention. No, that didn't help. Okay, pooper. Whatever. She's got food.

[00:03:37]>> She got millet.

[00:03:42]Sorry, guys. Hopefully hopefully it won't make it hard to hear me. Um >> uh 3:14. Thank you. Um anyway, yes, let me know. Let me know um if uh it is does make it hard to hear. I can move her further away. I just hate to do that because you guys, you know, >> Yeah. Okay.

[00:04:05]>> It's her house. Let her squawk.

[00:04:06]>> That's okay. Good. And you can hear just Okay, perfect.

[00:04:10]>> Yeah, we can hear you.

[00:04:11]>> Okay. 3:13. I Carol is the official timekeeper.

[00:04:15]>> She is the official counselor of history matters.

[00:04:18]>> She is. She is. Okay. Um why don't we get underway uh and begin now? Now it's right in front of me so I will remember it.

[00:04:29]>> Episode 313 of History Matters.

[00:04:34]And so does coffee. Um boy, we have stuff to talk about today. Um, a lot of stuff redistricting and I was going to call it the rise of Jim Crow, but more accurate, the rise of Jim Crow. Uh, but before I get to that, I turn to my wonderful partner in crime, Annie, who will explain the rules of the game.

[00:04:56]Well, good morning everybody. I can see a lot of folks are already engaging in the chat. We love that. Uh, here's how this works. Joan will talk about today's topic for about 30 minutes. Uh, I'll be off camera drinking my coffee and chatting away with all of you. I'll come back at that time and when I give you the signal, you may ask questions about today's topic in the chat. Um, the way we do that if you're new is three letters capital QQQ and then your question. But please wait until I tell you we're ready because it's easier for me to find your questions that way. All right, I'll see you guys in a little bit.

[00:05:34]>> Okay. And I will say um that uh anyone who is here for the first time uh please say so in chat this this there we go please say so in chat uh and you will get a robust welcome uh so please do this is an amazing community we celebrated last week six years six years of being here so okay oh there you go Sue Lynn first time live.

[00:06:06]Deb, first time live. Oh, look at this.

[00:06:09]Mini first time live. Okay, welcome to all of you guys and anyone else who I can't welcome personally since I'm going to start blathering. Welcome. Okay. Um, so last week I talked about Rosie is very vocal this morning. Just for those of you who are beaming in a little late.

[00:06:27]Um, last week I talked about the gutting of the Voting Rights Act. Um, I almost said the Vocal Rights Act because of Rosie and not quite right. Uh, and I talked about other ways in which this regime is trying to essentially erase people that they'd like to get out of the way. And I talked also about the um, whatever the heck it is that happened at the White House correspondents dinner um, and all of the talk of how um, people saying negative things about Trump were dangerous and they should be stopped. So, even erasing opposition.

[00:07:00]So, that was what I talked about last week. And then since then, we have been watching things happen in southern legislatures. Um, and part of what I want to do today is just catalog and and I probably haven't even reached all of them. Just catalog it and and and bring it all together in one place. And I'm sure that there are other outlets and people who are doing the same thing, but I I I want to have it all on record for us in one place. what's going on. Um, and then I do want to talk a little bit about the first Jim Crow or the first official called by that name Jim Crow. Uh, and kind of just offer a little bit of historical context on what's happening right now. But first, uh, let me start a little bit with what's been going on in southern states, in southern legislatures, uh, within, you know, days, within the last week, um, in some cases within a couple of days. And we'll start with Tennessee because a lot has been going on in in Tennessee. And I don't know um if uh how many of you have seen online and if you haven't go find it the protest that's go taking place uh in the capital during all of what's going on there. Um I'm trying to check something because there you go. What I wanted to Oh, this is Tennessee. Okay. I wanted to make sure this was Tennessee.

[00:08:27]Um there's a lot of protests going on.

[00:08:30]uh peaceful protest even so there are you know troopers there like trying to impose some order according to them. Um what happened is that after the gutting of the Voting Rights Act, um Senator Marcia Blackburn and Trump um urged Governor Bill Lee in Tennessee to call a special session to pass a redistricting map in the middle of an election cycle ahead of the November midterm. Surprise!

[00:09:02]What a shock. So, Tennessee Republicans passed a map explicitly designed to elect nine Republican members of Congress uh this fall. So, they used to have um an 8 to1 balance of districts and one of them was a black majority district. uh they have now divided up that black majority district and uh parcled black voters and Democratic voters into Republican friendly districts. So under the new map, Tennessee has no majority black seeds slashd districts. Um now I believe that the NAACP uh has already filed a lawsuit uh and I don't know how that has advanced. um what they have.

[00:09:56]You might in addition to hearing Rosie yelling, there's drilling going on in my building. So, just um I apologize for that in advance, too. And yes, Tammy is right that the Tennessee Holler um there's great coverage of the protests, which are amazing. Um and uh I I do I'm going to go on, but one thing I want to say about that, when people say, you know, um why are protests important?

[00:10:21]Here's one example of why they're important. Because in in standing up and calling things out, not only are they making it more difficult to do this redistricting, but equally, if not more important, they're alerting the rest of the country to what's happening there.

[00:10:38]It's but you can't well you can if you want to ignore what's happening there but but the protest and the level of protest and the intensity of protest what that's doing is exposing what's going on in Tennessee that's part of what protest does. So that's worth noting in the same way that Minneapolis standing up alerted people to something that they might have just glanced over. Same thing's happening in Tennessee. Um, so, uh, this new map, uh, was passed in a special session. Um, and I don't know if you folks have seen, uh, the video floating around online. I did.

[00:11:19]That's I went scrolling through here because I wanted to make sure this happened in Tennessee, and I believe it did. There's a Republican um state representative Todd Warner who um tried to enter the legislature, the room, the chamber wearing a Trump flag as a cape.

[00:11:41]Just want to put that out there. It was taken from him. Uh he was not allowed to enter the room wearing a Trump flag as a cape. Um, so the the blatant racism and Trumpism uh just blended together right now um for obvious purposes in Tennessee. Um, Representative Justin Jones um actually burned a paper Confederate flag. There's a great image of that floating around online, too. Anyway, I encourage you uh all of you who are watching to go look up and and look at the protest going on in Tennessee about this new the redistricting because it really is a great example of what happens when you stand up and speak out loudly and people can see it's hard to look past what's going on and we can't look past what's going on. So that's Tennessee. Then poof, Louisiana. Surprise. They moved to delay their May 16th congressional primary so that they could finalize new districts that of course will favor Republicans and disadvantaged Democrats and black Americans. Alabama, this one, this one I saw online and I had to check because I wanted to be sure that it was real.

[00:13:02]So Alabama um is had a you know yet another sort of meeting, a special meeting uh to talk about redistricting.

[00:13:14]They actually passed um I guess House Bill 1, which will only take effect if federal courts reverse rulings in 2023 and 2025 that said that Alabama's legislature violated the Voting Rights Act. Okay. So, 2023, 2025, federal courts said, "Nah, Alabama, you're violating the Voting Rights Act."

[00:13:38]Now, that that's been gutted.

[00:13:41]Totally possible that they're going to be allowed to um use this new redistricting. And here's the part that really wowed me when I came across it in the last day or so. As they were debating this, there were there was a tornado warning and uh the building, the Capitol building began flooding.

[00:14:04]Water was coming in. I I don't know if it made it to the first floor, but it was coming in. The parking lot was flooded.

[00:14:12]And they kept debating.

[00:14:15]And finally, when the fire alarm went off, what do you think happened?

[00:14:21]You would think with a fire alarm and the building flooding, they left the building. Oh no, they voted to stop debate and vote.

[00:14:31]So with a tornado potentially bearing down on them and water coming into the building and sirens going off, they said, "Oo, we better get this vote fast because we got to get this done."

[00:14:43]Alabama, uh, South Carolina, Florida, Mississippi. There are all kinds of other states where, um, things are going on. I'm sure there is more to come. Um, here's the thing, and it's obvious, but I have to say it. This scuffling and around to try and immediately black block black Americans from having any influence. trying to reduce black voting power, trying to pull back the number of black members of Congress, all of the ways in which people in these southern states are desperately trying and now successfully to eliminate black influence in politics. They are proving why we needed the Voting Rights Act.

[00:15:36]Right?

[00:15:37]The Voting Rights Act number one said that state and and local governments couldn't impose rules that restricted the right of citizens to vote because of race or color. Um there was there were special provisions in the Voting Right Acts that applied to places that had a history of racial discrimination in voting and they had a preclarance requirement. Section five of the Voting Rights Act. There was a pre-clarance require requirement. I need more coffee, I think. Which meant that if these areas wanted to change their districtricting, they first had to get essentially permission uh before they could do it because they had a history of racial discrimination in districtricting.

[00:16:31]And so Voting Rights Act is gutted and immediately these places start to frantically redistrict proving the need for the act in the first place.

[00:16:44]Okay, so this is ugly and it's going to get uglier and it's um outrageous. Uh, and I'm sure I could come up with a lot more adjectives because it's um, yeah, who what who uh, Kirsty says, "Block black Americans sends an odd chill through me." Yeah, it's we're living amidst a lot of really ugly moments.

[00:17:14]And this is a big one, but as the Trump flag as a cape shows, they're proud of themselves.

[00:17:24]That's one of the things about the racism as it's being displayed now is that it's no longer under a rock.

[00:17:35]People aren't even trying to mask it. They're proud.

[00:17:41]They're out.

[00:17:43]they're in power. Uh, and that's a particularly repulsive aspect of the the the flavor of racism that we're seeing now. But let's turn uh for a little bit to talk about the initial rise of Jim Crow. Um, which was uh an attack. It came after reconstruction.

[00:18:03]Reconstruction saw all kinds of advances for black Americans. Uh, there were black members of Congress. there all kinds of that black uh Americans could in multiple big numbers and I'm going to come to numbers they registered to vote.

[00:18:17]It was there were great advances and then of course what that led to is uh an attack on black citizenship and rights and thereby democracy. So, just bear in mind, this is not news at all, but just thinking about patterns.

[00:18:33]When there's a moment when it seems as though black Americans are advancing, have rights that they should have had all along, there is a backlash.

[00:18:46]Jim Crow number one, meet Jim Crow number two. But let's go back to Jim Crow number one. Um, it was most extreme in the South, but it was everywhere. And then in the in the 1880s and the 1890s, um particularly in the south, there were new laws uh passed that prevented uh black Americans from voting, limited their mobility, their employment, their schooling. And this was the figure I was glancing at a moment ago. So during reconstruction, 90% of Mississippi's black men were registered voters.

[00:19:23]By 1892, not that far away from reconstruction, that figure had plummeted to 6%.

[00:19:31]90% 6% 6% of Mississippi's black men registered voters. And here's the thing, it stayed there basically until the civil rights era in the 1960s.

[00:19:47]Now I get that I want to mention I want to footnote that I get that from the US Commission on Civil Rights. There is a US Commission on Civil Rights.

[00:19:59]So I saw that I saw that fact uh and I wanted to cite the US Commission on Civil Rights and of course then the first thing I thought was how is there a US Commission on Civil Rights right now?

[00:20:13]So I did a little Googling and guess what? It's under attack.

[00:20:18]Uh it's bipartisan.

[00:20:20]Uh the regime is trying to get control, hand control of it to Republicans.

[00:20:27]Um it's being investigated. So not surprising. Uh and in a way to be expected. Yes. Um there is a US Commission on Civil Rights and the regime is trying to undermine it. Thank you very much. Okay.

[00:20:43]So soon after reconstruction, as I suggested a moment ago, former Confederates had all kinds of actual laws, social rule, rules, and everything else to try to limit black southerners liberties. And of course, black southerners pushed back. Um, but the Jim Crow system just got tighter and tighter and stronger and stronger. um between and and I should say I should add to that. Um obviously the threat of violence became even more powerful as well because with the blessing of these laws and these customs and and and the idea that now it was allowable, excuse me, it was good to try and repress black Americans. The threat of violence increased too.

[00:21:41]So, here's a charming figure.

[00:21:44]Between 1877 and 1950, there were over 4,000 lynchings in the South.

[00:21:53]That's part of what we're looking at as a result of the attitude and the actions going on in the South.

[00:22:01]Now, I want to mention here briefly, um, Confederate monuments and statues, um, because they're always in the news.

[00:22:12]Uh, and the Trump administration wants to put up put back up a lot of these monuments. Why were they taken down? Or rename things or restore, you know, Confederate heroes names to various things. I want to make a point about a lot of those statues. Those statues date to the early 20th century. They do not date back to the 19th century. They do not date back to the period when there actually were real Confederates.

[00:22:41]And they were often put in very busy public places kind of as a stamp of ownership of white supremacy.

[00:22:54]They were put up all over the place because it was a statement of power, a statement of white supremacy. They were planted because of the growth of Jim Crow. So, whenever you're reading about people who are outraged that those statues were taken down and are saying our history is being erased, please remember they were not put up for the unbiased teaching of history.

[00:23:21]They were put up as a confederate statement of white power. Basically, they were political statements. And it's worth remembering that um in the 1960s, so as we're moving into the Civil Rights era, um the Voting Rights Act, Texas installed 27 Confederate monuments dedicated to Confederate soldiers.

[00:23:52]In 1964 alone, there were an additional 16 Confederate monuments dedicated across the South.

[00:24:02]The give and take, the cause and response is pretty clear here, right?

[00:24:08]The the rise of Jim Crow 2.

[00:24:12]What we're seeing is there was a period when black Americans began getting rights and freedoms that they had long deserved and had been deprived of and all kinds of reprehensible ways, including the right to vote for black men with things like literacy tests and pole taxes and and just open threats so that people were afraid to vote.

[00:24:40]Um, that came after black Americans began getting the liberties and rights that they should have had all along.

[00:24:49]Bang, you get the response of Jim Crow.

[00:24:53]Open, blatant, blasting legal and social and cultural attacks on the power of black Americans.

[00:25:07]The civil rights era saw some reversal.

[00:25:11]That was that was what happened in the civil rights era and the voting right acts particularly that was a crowning glory of that era for all of the reasons that I'm talking about right now.

[00:25:24]And from that point on things aren't better. Racism isn't over as some Republicans are claiming. uh and just what's happened in the last week and show you that that's not true if you needed any evidence. But regardless, um black Americans were getting their louder voices. They were more and more people in politics. We had a black president.

[00:25:52]I will I will eternally remember how proud I was to vote in that election for Barack Obama.

[00:26:03]It made me cry. I was so proud to be able to vote for black president.

[00:26:09]And now gradually we're seeing a response to those rights, a response to those liberties, a response to the feeling that diversity has been happening. Because diversity means that white men, and I say men because they're pretty anti-woman at this point, white men do not have absolute, uncontrolled, unquestioned power, which they feel entitled to. And so now we are seeing the rise of a form of of Jim Crow. That's what we're seeing. We're seeing attempts to limit and silence and intimidate black Americans, uh, limit their votes, limit their rights. And I want to make one final point here. I'm almost out of time, but not quite. And particularly with this group, we can't forget the fact that Republicans are very eager to rewrite our history, either by not teaching about slavery or race, like literally not permitting teachers to teach about those things or excising them from textbooks. So, in light of everything that I just said, they're erasing all the context that shows the implications and the history of this ugliness.

[00:27:35]They are trying to cover over the footsteps that led here and that show blatantly what's going on right now.

[00:27:45]as though people need proof, but still they're trying to cover over and mask and push out of the way the actual reasons and implications and impact of these kinds of actions. They're out there. It's our history. It's where we've been. It's how we got here. and you know rise of Jim Crow because it has a history and that history exposes precisely what's going on now again as if it needs exposure but for those who need convincing if you understand if you know the history of Jim Crow and you can see how it advanced and you can see what it did and you can see how it was corrected in many ways in the civil rights era, you're going to have a clearer understanding of how civil rights are under attack and what you know the great again past looks like to these folks.

[00:28:51]I you know I don't I don't have strong enough words to express my outrage at this moment.

[00:29:01]Um, but I at least wanted to catalog a lot of what's going on in the South right now and and compare it with another moment when there was an ugly extreme response to the growth of black rights, black voices, black power.

[00:29:24]That's what we're seeing now. And it's being masked as partisan, right? Oh, it's okay. It's just about silencing Democrats.

[00:29:38]I mean, gerrymandering was never great anyway, right? Gerrymandering is always a problem for that reason. But to suggest now that what they're doing now isn't about race, it's just partisan and that thus it's okay, that's nonsense, too.

[00:29:52]So, that is what I wanted to say today.

[00:29:55]I wanted to say that in a in an organized manner.

[00:30:01]Um, okay. I I I see that Franchesca said gleefully redistrict. Yeah, it is.

[00:30:07]They're gleeful about this. Uh, and it shows it's on their faces. If you go and find any any of the stuff that's floating around online that is real, uh, you will see that there. Okay. So, um we are now uh at the part of our morning, Friday morning, when I need to reveal, um the mug.

[00:30:31]Here we go. Um I need to reveal the mug.

[00:30:34]Um and Annie, here is why I didn't answer your question.

[00:30:42]>> We never got to see that side of the mug. We only saw the part mug. This is the mug from New York Public Library.

[00:30:49]I didn't take it. And as I was leaving, they were like, "Do you want to take the mug?" And I WAS LIKE, "DO I WANT TO take the mug?" You know, I have no I I have other mugs that apply, but given what I just said, what are you reading now is pretty damn accurate. So, this is >> reading matter in the chat for all of them. Yeah, that's what we saw last night. I didn't really have the other thing on the back.

[00:31:14]>> No. What are you reading now? So that this is a new mug. You've never seen it before. And it just seems really appropriate given attempts to make it harder to learn about Jim Crow uh and what it did.

[00:31:28]>> Yeah. Okay.

[00:31:29]>> Well, we were talking about the Daughters of the Confederacy in the chat and you know, they controlled the textbooks in Virginia and other places for decades, not just, you know, right after the war. I'm talking about up until the 1970s and early 80s. So, um, they just lost their tax exempt status in Virginia.

[00:31:50]The new governor took a I mean, think about it. It's 2026 and all this time they've been treated like they were a church and and heads exploded.

[00:32:03]>> Yeah.

[00:32:04]>> So, it's it's it's getting real here in Virginia. Well, it's getting real and and that's I hate that. But the more this happens and the uglier it is and the more blatant it is, the more people will see it, right? I don't want this to be happening.

[00:32:24]>> Nobody does.

[00:32:25]>> But I want people to see it. It's It's been happening all along, but now it's in our faces.

[00:32:34]So that is, you know, the the little thing I'm hanging on to right now is that people who have been really not wanting to see this will be unable to deny this. They're always going to be deniers. I know it's silly of me to say people will be unable to deny, but I hope that this is exposing the intensity and the the the nature and the implications of this kind of blatant racism and Jim Crowism in a way that maybe people haven't understood before. Now, >> Joanne, have you been to the Equal Justice Initiative Sites of Conscious down in Alabama where they have the lynching memorial? Have you ever been there?

[00:33:18]>> No, I have. I really um want to it's it's a it's a bucket list place that I want to >> it's a very very powerful space. There's actually three places but of the three the one where they have every single documented lynching and then you go into the museum and and we did this after the unite the right rally in Charlottesville. You can collect soil samples of documented lynchings. They send you the jars. You keep one in your community so that your community doesn't forget what happens when hate and violence take over.

[00:33:50]>> That's right. That's what I read about.

[00:33:52]>> They have a wall full of these jars and we took students and community members down there um to bring the jar to them the summer after the unite the right rally and it was a very powerful experience. I think everybody should go there. You you'll think very differently about what you were told in school as a child about history. That's I mean I I that is particularly because that feels so powerful to me. Um that is that is a place um I would like to go. Oh, I seen someone else just beamed in uh keep the wheels rolling first time. Yay. And congratulations.

[00:34:27]>> Um but Virginia Taylor said something that I've said before which I'll mention. Um and and of course I'll take more questions but um they are energizing the majority.

[00:34:40]We are the majority as we >> are helping young people.

[00:34:45]>> We meaning nonmaga.

[00:34:48]We are the majority. And so yes, this kind of blatant, forgive me, assholeitude, th this blatant ugliness will energize all kinds of people. And yes, particularly young people, but not only young people. And that that matters.

[00:35:08]Okay. I want to be able to be open to questions. I'm I'm like I'm rivded. Uh but I want to answer your questions.

[00:35:14]>> Okay. So, here's how this works. Um QQQ in front of your question and I will do the best I can to keep up. So, starting now, put your QQQ in front of your questions. All right. Uh, Lopei says, "Do you know what the first action of the Jim Crow movement and laws were as we enter this second round so they can kind of call it out?"

[00:35:39]>> Oh. Um, I mean, well, initially they were essentially trying to prevent black people from voting.

[00:35:47]There were other things too um to make it harder for them to do everything and and to um make it essentially harder for black Americans to be engaging with white Americans. But um early attempts to cramp down on voting for black Americans with things like literacy tests and and polling uh taxes were part of So basically the answer to the question is making it harder for black people to vote.

[00:36:19]They they saw black congressmen.

[00:36:22]They saw black people in all kinds of positions of leadership in the south and they did what they could to make that go away. And that's where we are. I I also want to call out Va said um and I I mentioned this last week when I talked about how this regime is trying to erase everyone they don't like. um that their attack on on women and their attack on on trans people and their attack on on on on all people who they're attacking, it's all part of the same strategy of making people who they don't like vanish. Um and and categorizing them in ways. So yeah, the the attempt to erase trans people in the United States is is the same logic. And apparently while we were on this morning, Kelly says Virginia redistrict redrawn map was struck down by the state supreme court.

[00:37:17]>> Oh, so I haven't, you know, obviously I'm here so I'm not watching the news, but that's not >> um Okay. Martha Wales wants to know why it is called Jim Crow. Where did the name Jim Crow come from?

[00:37:30]>> Good question. So it actually comes from a character in minstal shows. Um, so I I can't remember now the name of the the white man who um got into blackface and acted as Jim Crow. It was a caricature cartoon version of a black person. Uh, and he would dance and sing and white Americans loved that caricature. It was really popular. Um, so that's where Jim Crow comes from. And and so essentially Jim Crow was a way of um demoralizing and insulting black Americans. And white Americans, not all of them, I guess, but generally white Americans loved it. And Jim Crow was a a huge cultural thing.

[00:38:18]you know, if you uh I have a friend who I think was collecting all of like Jim Crow like banks and toys and posters and there's massive massive mocking uh of black Americans and often using the Jim Crow character. So, that's where it comes from.

[00:38:44]We had a neighbor that had one of those black jockeyies that hold a lantern. Do you remember those? People used to have them as lawn ornaments. And we had a neighbor in our neighborhood we were growing up that had one of those. And my brother and his friends went out in the middle of the night and painted it white.

[00:39:02]And the people woke up the next day and they were furious and they were screaming and yelling at the end of the driveway. And my brother was sitting there eating his breakfast like this.

[00:39:09]And my mother was like, "What did you do?" And he goes, he just kept eating cereal. And my mother was like, "Oh god, >> when we all knew, we knew." And we knew exactly. We knew it was him, but we didn't know who else it was.

[00:39:22]>> When like roughly when did he >> This is This would have been like the early 70s because I was little. I'm not even sure if I was in school yet, but I just remember and these people were horrible. They were they were horrible.

[00:39:35]And so my brother's friends, they all just decided they and so the people panned it back did it again. It happened three or four times and then finally one night they just went and took it and I'm sure they just ditched it in the woods and the people called the police and the police were like, "Lady, we got more important things to do."

[00:39:54]>> Wow. But that's that's like that's some awareness on the part of your brother.

[00:39:59]>> My brother that's that's barely the tip of the iceberg. He's the one that became the journalist. But yeah, >> that's still that that is cool. And Kathy um Wiseman, it's Thomas Daddy Rice is the name of the actor who made Jim Crow famous. Okay. All right. Our good buddy Dave says, "Thoughts about Obama being elected twice as the proximate cause of this rise of the blatant racism in the US, especially in the South with redistricting and SCOTA swiping um out the Voting Rights Act."

[00:40:31]>> Yeah. Well, I mean, so once freaked people out enough, twice suggests a trend. Oh, no, they did this twice. So, yeah, I mean, it it's, you know, what the what we're experiencing now is a backlash. It did not start with Obama becoming president one time or two times. Um but it is a backlash that that helped push people into a panic if they were the people who were going to panic about this didn't start then what we're looking at now but that made a three alarm fire of something that had been an ongoing brewing ugliness. So yeah, and when you had a a black president elected twice, you know, in in the same way that some of us feel Trump was elected twice.

[00:41:26]>> What does that suggest? Rosie does not like >> Rosie is not having >> Yeah. Um Trump was elected twice and some of us are like right by the alarm fire.

[00:41:40]>> Yeah. I think it's um I think it's very appropriate that we're talking about this today because Suffs the Musical is on PBS starting tonight.

[00:41:48]>> I Yeah, I know. I And I hope I have a friend >> I have a friend taking me out for dinner and I'm hoping that I can figure out how to record it because I really want to see it.

[00:42:00]>> It's It's incredible. Um yeah, everybody needs to set their VCR or DVR, whatever you use nowadays. Um, PBS Passport. You can watch it whenever you want. Okay.

[00:42:13]>> Wait, wait, hang on. Packs. It's not stuffs. It's suffrage.

[00:42:18]>> Like suffrage. Yeah.

[00:42:20]>> Did I says? I thought I said suffs.

[00:42:23]>> Sorry. Um, okay. Paul Goldman asks, "Is there a second recon? If there was a second reconstruction in the 2030s, are there lessons that future implementers could take from the failure of the first one?

[00:42:38]>> Wow. Um well, now that we have seen um attacks, enormous right in front of your face attacks on voting rights, you would sure think that the third time around there would be more guard rails of a sort. I mean, part of what we're learning in this moment is the absence of guard rails or the weakness of guard rails and the ways in which um they haven't stood up to cultural and ethical failures on our part, never mind constitutional and legal because those have suffered too. Um, you know, one would hope. I think now, it's a really interesting question because I think now probably a lot of people didn't see this degree of what's going on now happening. And honestly, I think for a lot of people, and certainly, you know, I was a kid in the 70s, but I assumed, you know, democracy is here forever and America is always good and and, you know, whatever.

[00:43:46]as a white middle class person in Westchester County would have thought.

[00:43:51]Um, but I think a lot of us took a lot of things for granted.

[00:43:55]So, what we're seeing now is not only has democracy been under threat, but now we're seeing where threatened democracy goes. Not a surprise where it's going, but the speed and intensity and in-your-facess of it probably is alarming to some people. We can't have another moment like this without that awareness.

[00:44:22]What we're going through now will inform whatever happens going forward.

[00:44:26]And now that this is number two, in the same way that electing a black president twice, electing Donald Trump twice are like ah moments, this becomes a trend, having a new Jim Crow, you would think, would alert people to the idea that yes, that racism against black Americans is eternal, but the clamping down the legal and um constitutional and cultural and social clamping down on black Americans in an intense campaign in this way.

[00:45:01]If it happens twice, this quickly to this degree, institutionally ingrained, you would think some people would understand and see that when it's coming. I can't I generally am a glass half full person.

[00:45:18]I remain a glass half full person. Um, when it comes to race, um, I am glass half full, but I have to acknowledge, um, there are some people that will not be moved from where they stand on race to a degree that, um, they might want to be part of the Wii and everything else, but that's not going to make it happen.

[00:45:43]>> Yeah.

[00:45:45]>> Um, all right. Some people were wondering, is it too late for the blue states to do further redistricting to counterbalance what Tennessee did?

[00:45:56]>> Well, right. So, that that's an interesting uh potential development here. If the red states now are frantically trying to redistrict and do all kinds of things as quickly as they can and um delay primaries, etc., etc., etc. blue states at this point they can't play the you know well we're better than you when you go low we go high game anymore they can't they have to engage in politics as it is being deployed now so you know if that's how red states are going to play that game blue states have to figure out a way to confront that I think they do and I think it doesn't need me to say that there's going to be more of it. Now, I I don't know if it's going to look the same or not. I mean, remember, we we talked about this already that um some of the redistricting that was going on before this point was happening behind closed doors in red states and blue states had people vote on it on these redistricted maps. So, they're doing the redistricting, but they were doing it in a more small d Democratic way. I don't know how that will break down going forward. Um but yeah, now essentially um that Supreme Court decision has potentially unleashed wild redistricting. Um and we'll see.

[00:47:21]We'll see what happens.

[00:47:25]Uh okay, so Laurel wants to know, "What are the odds that enough white Democrats in the new Tennessee districts can outvote the racists?" like is there any possibility that even though they've done this I mean there's always a possibility I guess but you know what are your thoughts on could this blow up in their faces and they really pull more voters out than they >> would I mean I don't know I don't know it could right I mean I I can't say it won't I won't say it absolutely will um I I don't um you know in in I'm going to say the word that I say so often In an era of extreme contingency, predicting what comes next is really hard. And um I don't often engage in predictions because who the hell knows what's coming down the pike. Uh and I mean that, you know, I don't know what new way the regime will find to try and enforce itself and and gain permanent power or what new way uh Democrats will find to counter that. I don't know and I don't know where it'll go and I don't know who will succeed and I don't know who will fail. I do know and Tennessee is a great example of this. We all need to be watching and we all need to be speaking out, yelling out at what we're seeing. And not, you know, it it doesn't only have to be in Alabama and Tennessee and Louisiana where people are protesting.

[00:48:57]It can't only be in those places where people are >> everywhere. This is about all of us.

[00:49:03]This is about the whole nation and and who we are and democracy. Once again, the reality of democracy in this country, it's another open attack on >> Yeah. CC and several others said maybe this will actually be that tipping point that the voters get so upset they get more blue voters out. So, let's hope.

[00:49:25]Let's be hopeful.

[00:49:26]>> I hope. I hope so. I will say we should all be trying to get people registered to vote. Um I did see someone online say I I said the reise of Jim Crow and someone said we need to call it Jon Crow after John Roberts.

[00:49:41]>> Um >> some people were calling it Don Crowe that so just saying.

[00:49:48]>> Okay.

[00:49:49]>> And actually Carol Johnson this is worth I want to say this out loud too.

[00:49:54]>> Check your registration often. Yeah, >> given all the shenanigans going on, check it often to be sure that it's still there because they're constantly finding ways to throw people off the voting register because the fewer of us, the majority that vote, the better it is for them.

[00:50:14]You got to think that somehow people might process that through and think, wait, they don't want us to vote because we don't like them. Doesn't that suggest something about about the majority? But anyway, it it is very very much worth being really on top of, you know, I would say um like pick pick a number of days like every every 3 weeks I'm going to check my voting registration and and the um week or two weeks, let's say two weeks before an election even be more persistent. I I hate the fact that that's where we are, right? I hate the fact that I had to say that near elections, be sure to check your voting status.

[00:51:02]>> Um, and that is where we are.

[00:51:05]All right. Um, L. Rothweiler asks, "Have you heard about the new museum for Thaddius Stevens and Lydia Lydia Hamilton Smith Center for History and Democracy?" She's wondering um if that's something that's on your radar.

[00:51:22]Um, I didn't had not heard of it. I think Thaddius Stevens is a fascinating character. I really enjoyed writing about him in my last book. Um, he he was, you know, in an era when um, Southerners particularly were trying to intimidate and silence any anti-slavery advocate, any abolitionist. Um, Daddius Stevens with his like sarcastic ry sense of humor, he was like he was in people's faces uh in a in a powerful kind of a way, but I don't know uh actually anything about that. So, makes me want to go look it up. I don't know about it.

[00:52:05]>> Where where are you located, El Rothiler? I'm Give us more details like where is the museum? That would be helpful. Thank you. Uh, all right.

[00:52:16]Scrolling down. Um, it says Jimmy John Crow. That makes it southern. And >> for the sub shop Jimmy John's, I don't want them to have to be associated.

[00:52:28]>> No, they're nice people.

[00:52:29]>> I didn't even know that, but if there are Jimmy Johns, we shouldn't inflict that on them.

[00:52:33]>> Let's not put a small business or or a decent business out of business. Um, >> let me let me answer just a very specific question. Virginia Taylor says, "Why do people think Kansas was bleeding? Um that's because when um the Kansas Nebraska Act um basically so there was essentially a deal a line drawn across the country about you know not free states and slave states. Um and the Kansas Nebraska Act said no no every state gets to decide for itself what whether it wants to be free um or enslaved. and people rushed to Kansas and there there were battles in Kansas um between pro-slavery advocates and anti-slavery advocates um like physical battles and and fighting and killing and um so that's why Kansas literally was bleeding.

[00:53:24]>> Okay.

[00:53:26]>> Uh all right.

[00:53:28]>> Oh, that's one more thing. I'm sorry. I don't I keep I'm sorry I keep interrupting you. I just read about this, so I'm going to repeat it. Dorothy says, "Always check your voting location." I read somewhere online, and I can't remember now where it was. One state has made it possible for voting uh locations to change, and you don't have to inform people about it.

[00:53:53]Check your voting location. That's a new I wasn't aware of that new angle, but yeah.

[00:53:59]>> Wow.

[00:54:01]Um, okay. Piano picker wanted to know, "Do you think most or a lot of the racism is rooted in social economic conditions of being poor without means and education?"

[00:54:12]>> Repeat that for me again. I was playing with chat.

[00:54:16]>> Um, piano picker wants to know, "Do you think a lot of this racism is rooted in social economic conditions being poor without means and education?"

[00:54:26]Well, I think is poor and uneducated. Is that what they're saying?

[00:54:32]>> I'm I'm not I I mean, certainly poverty and racism go hand in hand because if people are um pressing down and eliminating the rights of people, those people are going to be poorer and more deprived. Um but I'm not sure. I don't think I fully understand that question.

[00:54:51]Yeah. I I think they mean poor white voters maybe that have less education. I'm not sure.

[00:55:01]>> Oh, well, I don't know. I mean, there are all kinds of polls they do of college educated versus non-oled educated um Democrats even. Um but but I don't know more than that kind of general trend on that.

[00:55:15]>> Yeah. Um okay. Uh, so people are asking more about the Daughters of the Confederacy. Some people have expressed that they were surprised that they were still around, that they still had active chapters. Um, and what is the membership like? Are they a front organization for racist men even though they're called the Daughters? So, any thoughts on like the modern Daughters of the Confederacy as an organization?

[00:55:43]>> I mean, not specific other than the obvious. Um uh a and you know I suppose that goes along with um what does it mean when you're planting Confederate statues all over the place, right? It's a statement of um not just the lost cause, but it's a state. You're taking a side.

[00:56:05]That's what it it is. That's just what it is. Um what did I just see? I was going to comment on something, but now you guys are commenting so fast. Uh, it went whizzing by.

[00:56:17]>> Um, >> going crazy.

[00:56:21]>> Oh, I'm running time, too. Um, >> yeah. And that's Pax is right. That white enslavers used the white poor. Oh, for sure. That the white enslavers sort of suggested that they were being held down um in part because of slavery. that the white the white wealthy white found ways to get poor white people on their side. I guess that's the shortest way to put it. Um and yes, education is is part of this. Um oh this is a Caroli that's what I wanted to comment on. So um Caroli says it's not just MAGA who's doing this and I want to I I agree and I want to make that point. Um this is not all about Donald Trump although he's at the middle of it. It's not only MAGA.

[00:57:12]Um, there are all kinds of people on the right who are engaging in this and some of them would say that they're not necessarily Trump supporters. Although at this point, if you're not against him and you're a Republican, you're for him.

[00:57:25]You cannot be a Republican and support what's going on right now and then say, "I don't know if I support Trump."

[00:57:31]You stand up and speak out or you've chosen a side. But regardless, I do want to make it clear. It's not just Trump and it's not just MAGA. It's broader than that. It's still a marked minority of Americans, but um that thank you, Koli. That is actually really worth saying.

[00:57:51]>> Yeah. Okay. Skimming for more questions.

[00:57:55]The chat is so busy today. Um a lot of people are exchanging books they're reading, which is always good. Um >> people are still asking like why the heck we can't get a female president.

[00:58:11]Well, that's that's a whole other topic for another >> that's a whole other topic. Um I did wanna someone uh mentioned that um Heather had mentioned the no nothings which made me think of something else um that happened in the past. So um you had um let me see if I'm gonna I want to be sure to get this right.

[00:58:34]Eventually in the middle of the 19th century, you had people who were in bigger parties and were anti-slavery break away and create the Republican party in part um is an an explicitly anti-slavery party um that was created as some of these larger parties began to dissolve or or you know divide up um you know the wig party vanished. part of the wig party went on to become the American party, which is what it suggests. Um, anyway, my larger point is just that parties split up and divide and rename themselves. And I've been thinking that's going to go on for a long time now. I mentioned it once on a panel here at Yale that there's no reason to believe that Republican and Democrat are going to stick around in the same form forever, particularly given MAGA and given the Democratic party is kind of at a loss right now as to what it is. And people really didn't want to hear that and and they were like, you know, well, it's been that way for a really long time. Why would it change? I was like, anyone ever hear about historical change? But anyway, um, as a political historian, I'm I'm watching to see how, you know, these two supposedly entrenched parties evolve over time.

[00:59:54]>> Yeah.

[00:59:56]Okay. Um, some suggestions for future topics. One person wants to know if you could talk in in a future about the Great Awakening. So, I'm just putting that in the universe.

[01:00:10]about religion.

[01:00:10]>> A lot of people are fans of suffs, so I think there'll be a lot of viewing tonight. Okay, here's one from Jay Hansen. Does Justice Clarence Thomas not look in the mirror? Is he trying to be an honorary white supremacist or is he just bought and paid for?

[01:00:26]>> I I I cannot answer that question, but those are logical questions, aren't they?

[01:00:31]>> And also, his wife was tied to January 6. She was supposedly working behind it, behind the scenes, funding all that. So, >> I cannot explain that.

[01:00:40]>> Yeah, >> to explain that.

[01:00:42]>> And then Ellen notes that there were 42,000 mailin ballots in Louisiana thrown out because they postpone the primary. So, you know, there's going to be all kinds of legal ramifications of that. So, how do you know if your vote got thrown out? Well, that's the thing, right? So, they're finding new ways to like the the date in which a ballot is received now is going to change as to whether that counts or not. fewer ballot boxes and places where you can there are any number of ways in which the right is trying to make it harder to vote and in cases like has your vote your ballot been thrown out impossible to know right so in that case we need people observing the polls right not observing to intimidate people just watching counting that's you know that that's And and I say explicitly not intimidating, not there to make people be afraid to vote, just watching and counting.

[01:01:43]>> Yeah, >> you can't trust now um that elections, ground level elections are going to go swimmingly because there are people who really don't want them to, >> right?

[01:01:58]Um, and a lot of people are are commenting on uh like there's military ballots that take longer to come in and if they say they can't be counted, you know, within a certain amount of time, what about the people serving our country overseas? So, there's that.

[01:02:14]>> No. Right. Well, there are all kinds of repercussions and folds and um complications that they're not even pausing to consider, right? It's just like we want this. We want these people to vote. We want don't want these people to vote. And we want to win no matter what. So here's what we're going to do. And there's not a lot of thinking and plotting and considering the after effect or the complications for a lot of what's going on.

[01:02:41]>> Um anyway, it is 11:01.

[01:02:44]>> It is. It is.

[01:02:46]>> I know.

[01:02:47]>> So many questions we didn't get to. As always, guys, we did the best we could, but thank you. Um, someone else also was asking more about was it a big scandal with Thomas Jefferson, Sally Hemings at the time. So maybe that could be a future topic or read a net Gordon Reed's really great book um about that topic. I think that's probably one of the best ones. She has two I think that talk about that. Um um she does I use one of them, the shorter one teaching um that the short answer to that and that is for another time. Um the short answer to that is um there was like a political cartoon about it. Um but you know a lot of southern enslavers were sleeping with um raping or whatever other word you want to use some of their enslaved women. So the fact that he was doing it wasn't you know outrageous at the time.

[01:03:48]who he was and doing that. You know, some people use that as political fodder, but it wasn't a big deal in the way that one might think it should have been. Okay, it is after party time. So, I want to um segue. I want to segue. Um, okay. So, let me explain what's going to happen next. Um, we are going to go to the afterparty. Um, and I know I say this every week, but I there are new people, so they don't know. In in the ancient days when we did this on Zoom, we could stop recording and so the afterparty was not recorded and we could really talk about whatever we want to talk about.

[01:04:23]Now we can't do that and so anything that happens in the afterparty does not stay in the afterparty. It is is public too. So you need to be aware that whatever we're talking about here is public. That said, we can talk about whatever we want to talk about. It's freer and easier and whatever. We don't definitely don't need to stay on topic.

[01:04:42]This is a kind of a community moment. Um before we segue to the afterparty, um I do want to thank all of you guys uh for coming and engaging in the conversation of democracy on a Friday morning and making this amazing community a community as you do. I want to thank my wonderful partner in crime, Annie, uh for all that she does as part of this community. Um, and uh, I want to wish you all a good week. Do things that are nice for yourself. Do at least one thing that's nice for yourself. This is, for some reason, this week in particular, I mean, I've been doing a lot of events, but this week in particular, I don't want to say I'm demoralized, but I'm I feel a little lower than I've been feeling. Let me put it that way. Um, so be nice. Be nice. I'm not always running around optimistic, but um my levels of feeling dismay vary. Um and I'm having this week I just it just feels particularly bad. So anyway, be nice to yourself. Give yourself a little grace.

[01:05:54]Um okay. So can I real quick before leaves because I know some people won't stay. I just wanted to say again thank you for those of you who've been sending books for teachers. CC um helped me create a a separate registry for people that don't want to give their money to Amazon cuz I get that. I I totally understand that. Um and so she found a wonderful site called Bookshelf where you can pick a local bookstore and they will give that bookstore credit for the sale, which I love that idea.

[01:06:27]>> Yeah, we put together a page. The Amazon link still works for people that that use Amazon and and the same books are now on the bookshelf. one and we've had I think close to 200 books donated. It's amazing. You guys are amazing. Um teachers are going to be so thrilled this summer and I already told Dr. Ays I'm going to take two check bags instead of one and I'm going to distribute the weight of the books in each one and then on the way home I'll just like like nesting dolls. I'll combine the suitcases because I I'll be coming back with a lot less weight in the suitcase.

[01:07:01]But luckily I have enough freaking flyer miles I get two free check bags. So, we're gonna fill them with >> Excellent. Anyway, thank you guys because that's amazing.

[01:07:10]>> It is amazing.

[01:07:11]>> And now, uh, I will say poof, we are now in the afterparty.

[01:07:18]>> It's less dramatic this way, but still.

[01:07:20]>> Yes, it is, but it's still fun. And I I was the other night we had Matt, for those of you who came Saturday night for our little anniversary party, and uh Matt was the partner in crime before myself uh and and Grace Sutherman. But I just realized when we do poof at the end, it kind of looks like jazz hands.

[01:07:37]>> It does look like jazz hands. I It's true. I hadn't thought about it there. I I did it because it used to we would have the voice, >> you know, the voice of Zoom would be like, you know, >> recording stopped, >> right? You stopped recording and then we would go poof. But you're right, it does look like an honorary jazz hands.

[01:07:56]>> It's just funny. I I won't >> lot of people said they loved meeting Matt because they were new people that came to the late night show and and so they're new to History Matters and they were all like, "Oh, I really liked Matt." So Matt was a hit. That was really fun.

[01:08:10]>> No, that was nice. I also want to say because I just found this um cheering.

[01:08:16]Uh so I did um three events in two days on Wednesday, >> but but and but the and it's not cheering because yay me. It's cheering because there were so many people there and interested in in talking about stuff, right? That's that's what you want to see. Um, Trinity Church. Um, so I spoke at it was it's Trinity Talks.

[01:08:43]St. Paul's Chapel is part of Trinity Church, but I spoke at St. Paul's Chapel. St. Paul's Chapel is where George Washington went to services after taking the oath of office at Federal Hall. He walked down the street and uh to St. Paul's Chapel and I got to give a lecture there on Wednesday which was amazing. But the part that cheers me is it was standing room only. People just wanted to be there for the history and a lot of the people who came up at the end for me to sign a book in one way or another were community members. Some of them I don't know if anyone from um this community um came. I'm not sure because I didn't ask. Um I know there were some nighttime folk. Anyway, the point is not yay Joanne, but that there's such strong a strong desire to be with other people and talking about and thinking about history. Um and I guess maybe it's nice to see that because postcoid, you know, there it took a while for people to come back into rooms and engage like that. Um, I find that intensely wonderful, uh, to see people so engaged and and interested. So, okay, that's my my two cents.

[01:10:01]>> Um, >> a lot of people are talking about this Virginia.

[01:10:04]>> Yeah.

[01:10:05]>> Today, that's not good.

[01:10:09]>> Rosie, someone said she's gone quiet.

[01:10:14]She's currently she's pining herself and she's in almost in sleep position. So, she might have pooped herself out. Take a little nap.

[01:10:24]>> That was >> She wore herself out.

[01:10:27]>> I think she pooped herself out. Um, she's peeped out. Yes, I think she's she peeped herself out. Um, oh, and the the Trinity thing, I I'll put it on my YouTube page. They they recorded it and they're gonna post it. Um, and >> Oh, it's up. I watched it. It was good.

[01:10:45]>> Oh, good.

[01:10:46]>> Yeah.

[01:10:47]>> Oh, good. Okay. I have >> I watched that. I watched Beverly Gage after the teacher book club.

[01:10:52]>> What was the third one? I can't remember.

[01:10:54]>> Was not public. Um, there was a a former um actually Caroli, I mentioned a mug that I think you gave me. Did you give me a mug that says something like doing good things since 1962?

[01:11:09]Um, >> I have a 1962 mug. Um, is that you, Carol?

[01:11:20]I'm I'm still That was from everyone.

[01:11:23]Okay, that was from everyone. Anyway, so the the Yale class of 1962 um had me on to talk about the founding and the current moment. Um, and I said I said I don't want to make you guys feel really old, but I was born in 1962 and I mentioned the mug and I was gonna go get it and show it to them and it's on a a shelf that I couldn't reach. But anyway, um Oh, okay. Clinton Freeman. Yes, because you were a fellow Freeman. I think I gave you a Freeman fist bump >> even. I think I do remember you. You were right at the end, too. Um anyway, uh the the So that was that one is not public, but um I'll find a way uh to post them on my YouTube page. Someone asked me um how uh if I got my birthday card yet, but I haven't been back to Yale to my mailbox. So, um I have not.

[01:12:22]Um >> also, the Daddius Stevens Museum uh is in Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

[01:12:28]So, I went there last year for a conference. So, I don't know if I'll get back there anytime soon, but I do I do want to go hear more about that museum.

[01:12:34]>> Oh, here you go. Rabbi >> Rabbi Beth says the mug is for my 60th birthday.

[01:12:40]>> Oh, >> wonderful. Okay, it is here. Um, someone Oh, James. Uh, what hairstyle did I have in the 80s?

[01:12:50]Anyone want to guess?

[01:12:52]>> I'm gonna say big puffy bangs.

[01:12:54]>> Well, no bangs. I had big hair >> or just big puffy in the top.

[01:12:58]>> I had big hair. Not like crazy hairsprayed hair, >> but I had I got a perm.

[01:13:06]>> I got a perm in my hair so that it would be bigger than it was without Yeah.

[01:13:11]>> So, no, I I was >> Yeah, I had >> big hair. No, >> is that what they called it? A buffont?

[01:13:18]>> Yeah, it wasn't extreme like that, but it was 70s.

[01:13:22]>> It was um Virginia, are there more Are there history conferences I attend? Um, I'm going to be at Cheer this summer in July. I think it's in Philadelphia. Um, this is a great conference for early historians of the early American Republic. It's always been like really friendly. Some of these conferences are huge and you feel like you need to impress people and um, Cheer is not that way. It's smaller uh, and just friendlier and I try to get my grad students to give paper their first paper there because it's a friendly place to do that. Anyway, um I don't always go to conferences. Um depends on where they are, uh and if I need to sort of be there for the moment, but that's when I'm going to be on a panel. Um with Jamal Buouie, um I can't even remember with a with several people talking about early American history in the and the current day.

[01:14:20]Um yes, Rosie is back for an encore.

[01:14:23]That's true.

[01:14:24]>> She's definitely not taking a nap.

[01:14:28]>> Yeah.

[01:14:30]>> So, yeah. Um, no, Heather, I am several months older than Heather. Not a full year.

[01:14:41]She and I have worked this out because she's been using that on me forever.

[01:14:46]Uh, her birthday is coming. Uh, >> I'm slightly older than Carol Lee.

[01:14:53]But not that much in the end.

[01:14:59]It doesn't matter. But it makes for great jokes.

[01:15:02]>> That's right.

[01:15:03]>> Perms smelled so bad. Oh, and I had I had the wings earlier than that. I had pharaoh.

[01:15:10]>> Oh, the fosset wings.

[01:15:12]>> Oh, yeah.

[01:15:13]>> Yeah. Tatum O'Neal had them and Christy McNichol. Those are the people that >> Oh my gosh. And >> started then everybody else had to have them. And I don't my I don't have straight hair. I straighten it sometimes now. But get I had I was doing that stupid hair wing thing. Let's see here.

[01:15:30]>> Mine wouldn't see my hair's straight today because I got a haircut last night. That's the only time y'all ever see my hair straightened. But mine was too curly. So I couldn't do the wings because they just turned into curls. So I just never had the barrel faucet hair do.

[01:15:43]>> I did and it would take me forever. Um, I'm trying to find it because I know I have a picture on my phone, but >> I remember my principal in middle school came over the loudspeaker once and said, "Girls, you may not spray Aquanet in the bathrooms anymore. Too many kids with inhalers are coming to the clinic."

[01:16:04]>> Oh no.

[01:16:06]>> Between every class and the girls would take their bangs and be spraying them.

[01:16:10]>> Oh my god. Well, like um working girl had like that were triggering asthma attacks. And so they outlawed Aquanet.

[01:16:19]>> That's That's >> That is hilarious.

[01:16:23]>> That was pretty funny.

[01:16:25]>> I'm trying to find the stupid embarrassing picture because I I would embarrass myself for you guys, but um I am not seeing it sadly. I'm seeing a thousand pictures of Rosie and then newbie is what I have on my phone. A thousand newbie pictures. Um, yeah, I'm not gonna keep looking because that's rude. But at any rate, I do if I remember to find it, I'll I'll try to remember next week to have my faucet uh moment.

[01:16:58]>> A lot of times around prom time, um, the faculty will bring in their old prom pictures and post them for the kids like on bulletin boards and things. always hilarious because even within a typical faculty, you'll have new teachers and then teachers been teaching 30 years.

[01:17:13]>> Yeah.

[01:17:14]>> So, like so many hilarious prom especially the styles. Like it's funny what the prom dress styles were >> through. I want to show you guys something. Hang on.

[01:17:26]>> Oh, she's gonna go get her prom picture.

[01:17:30]That would be hilarious.

[01:17:32]A Oh, that's a good idea. Jennifer says you should go to that Brooklyn place and autograph some Hutza cans and they can sell them.

[01:17:41]>> I guess that's true.

[01:17:42]>> That would be really fun.

[01:17:43]>> It's not Aquanet, but it's close.

[01:17:47]>> Hairspray.

[01:17:48]>> Oh, >> I've never heard of that one.

[01:17:52]>> It It's the Aquanet like >> it is. Um >> I don't use hairspray because my hair's so curly. It just says whatever it wants and I've just stopped fighting it.

[01:18:04]>> I use it um I flip my head over if I if I'm trying to have bigger hair that actually I'm still but I don't use it very often. The noobs abides. The noobs always abides. Um >> Yep.

[01:18:17]>> Yeah. So, no Aquinet man. Uh I'm trying to catch up now.

[01:18:24]Rabbi Beth said her husband's grandmother to the end of her life thought that the North stole West Virginia.

[01:18:32]>> Oh well.

[01:18:35]>> Wow.

[01:18:37]>> Not stole but sort of.

[01:18:39]Um >> they made a choice.

[01:18:42]>> They did. Okay. Here's a question about the 70s. Um do any of you remember Corky's shoes?

[01:18:51]>> Oh yeah. Yeah.

[01:18:53]>> Um bear traps, but I know what corkies are.

[01:18:56]>> The big platform shoes >> with that like had cork bottom and Yeah.

[01:19:02]>> Y >> um they were like they were the thing.

[01:19:05]Hang on a sec.

[01:19:07]>> After corkies, slightly after that were bear traps and they were thick wooden sandals, but they were similar style, but we had the cork wedge ones before.

[01:19:16]>> Yeah, the cork ones. And >> I don't remember bear traps, but the corkies were the like the trend. And I would fall off those shoes constantly. I went all through high school falling off the damn shoes. And my mom, to her credit, she found all these ways to like sew creative patches on my jeans so that they didn't look like patches to patch up the places where I ripped my jeans when I fell off of my Corky shoes. So when I think of bigger hair, um, I think of corkies. I wonder how many girls wore corkies and fell off their heels and twisted their ankles and then had bad ankles when they got older.

[01:19:57]>> How many orthopedic doctors can directly trace their patients ailments back to corkies?

[01:20:04]>> That a lot.

[01:20:06]I bet that I bet it's more than one would think.

[01:20:09]>> Yeah, >> I am trying to catch up. Right. I had Cherokees, tall Cherokee shoes. Um I uh I I don't know two two years ago or something at some point in the semi-reent past um my foot decided that it no longer likes high heel shoes. Uh and that kind of destroyed me because um first of all, I'm barely 5t tall at this point. Um I love high heel shoes. Uh, but I had to get rid of most of my high heel shoes.

[01:20:45]Um, so yeah.

[01:20:48]>> Yeah.

[01:20:49]>> Which I hate. Um, I I but the thing is and actually Ellen makes the good point at this point. I know that I can't wear them. I still have some, but at this point I don't really want to because it's a pain in the Well, it's a pain in the foot. Um, I'm walking around so much like I you start to question why you're wearing them. I liked the way it looked, >> but um yeah, I I basically I have a pair of shoes that has like a little >> heel and a and a um what do you call a narrower front that's like my suit shoes.

[01:21:23]>> And that's shoes.

[01:21:25]>> Yeah, >> I I don't wear heels anymore because I had a torn meniscus and had to have surgery and so I just don't wear heels anymore. All All my cute shoes are flats now. And yeah. Um >> yes, the letters are for sitting down. I did have restaurant I called them restaurant shoes that were uncom so so uncomfortable to walk in that they were only good if you weren't going to walk around a lot and were going to sit now that's ridiculous. I mean that was a while back. That's Joanne. You silly person. Um Dr. Scholes. I don't think I ever had Dr. Scholes because I would slip out of them. But I liked the way they looked. Um >> Yeah. They never would stay on my feet.

[01:22:06]>> No. Me. Exactly. You had to grip your toes so hard to keep them on and your foot higher.

[01:22:13]>> Uh a thank you, Carol. Uh I'm tall in stature. I'll take it. I will take it. I I um was uh had for a variety of reasons I've been going to a lot of doctors in the last six months. Six, eight, nine. Anyway, every time you go, they weigh and measure you.

[01:22:43]So, I've been clinging clinging to the fact I was 51 forever. And I was like, maybe I'm five feet now, but damn it, I don't want to go under five feet because that's just scary. That's so short. Um, and so it became this ongoing thing where like when they would measure me, I would be trying so hard to to like stand up as tall as I could. Um, and I'm barely 5t tall now. They would be like 411.8.

[01:23:19]Anyway, um, so >> yeah, last night it looked like your feet did NOT QUITE TOUCH.

[01:23:25]>> NO, THANK YOU.

[01:23:26]>> And I thought because my sister used to have that problem. It used to make her so mad. She was about your height and um when we would go places and her feet didn't reach.

[01:23:36]>> Exactly. I so I sat down and then you get tired faster >> and I so we sat down and and we started going and I didn't and I was holding a book and my notes and you know I looked over and like Beverly had her legs crossed and I first of all I was like my feet are not flat on the ground and you know I could try to move forward in the chair but that felt weird. So I was uncomfortable the whole time and my feet were not flat on the ground. Um, that that that would have happened even if I was 5'1, I think. Ruby, I hear you, baby. I do.

[01:24:16]Okay.

[01:24:17]Um, anyway, I I wondered if anybody noticed. Um, yes, that is correct.

[01:24:23]>> I noticed that the minute they started.

[01:24:24]I was like, "Oh, poor Joanne. Her legs are going to be so tired." The >> They were just They were like pointed down like barely touching the ground.

[01:24:33]And then Beverly's were like flat ON THE FLOOR.

[01:24:36]>> I KNOW. I was so jealous. I kept looking because I I I didn't look down at my own, but when I I didn't and I haven't watched it, but I went back to see what the stage looked like and I immediately saw the my feet are like I think Doris Kern's Goodwin is around your height and she did a talk at U of last year with Ed and you know Ed's super tall and I remember they had them on the stage and they made them go early and sit down to make sure that that and then they brought like a little box for her to put her feet I >> I thought that was so kind and thoughtful and it just looked so funny because at the end they stood up, you know, and and it was like this.

[01:25:18]>> I I never um if I'm gonna be able to do this. I never uh Let me go back here.

[01:25:26]>> And there's a hilarious picture of you and all the other backstory host >> in the Paramount and it's like there's Ed, there's Brian. Nathan's not that tall, but still he's taller than you.

[01:25:38]And and Peter, and they're all pretty tall. And then there's Joan. It was so It's such a cute little picture from >> I'm trying to I'm not never gonna find it, but um >> yeah, >> I don't think it will know.

[01:25:51]>> Oh, I I can put it in the chat because it's >> Yeah, the um >> it's on the we did a lesson about the last episode of backstory.

[01:26:01]Um, >> let me see if I can find and and I used that picture in the lesson because it was so cute.

[01:26:10]Um, >> yeah, I I uh it's I found the date, but I'm never going to be able to find it.

[01:26:15]Um, but no, I and I don't think I when we took the photo of all of us um when when I'm Nathan and I first joined, I was standing on a box. So, yeah.

[01:26:27]>> Yeah, that was so Um, anyway, I'm I'm still saying I'm 5 feet tall because it's 411 point something. I'm claiming those extra point something. Um, well, piano picker used to be 5'2 and now five even. Okay, I feel a little better because it also made me feel like I'd failed myself somehow, like I should be doing yoga. I would be taller if I were doing yoga.

[01:26:51]Um, oh, Luc Lucy.

[01:26:57]Lucine also called them restaurant shoes. Yeah, that's what they were.

[01:27:00]>> Restaurant shoes.

[01:27:03]That's so cute.

[01:27:06]>> All right, >> you're finding the photo.

[01:27:09]>> Yeah, I'm totally rounding up. Um, >> I think that Yeah, the end of an ear, I think, is the Is that the last episode?

[01:27:24]>> I don't I don't know.

[01:27:26]Um, yeah, it's a very funny picture.

[01:27:32]>> And that's why when I got to meet Peter finally, when you were here, um, earlier this year, um, I didn't realize how tall he was.

[01:27:39]Yeah. Okay, I found it.

[01:27:41]>> Oh, okay.

[01:27:42]>> All right. I'm gonna put in the chat right now. Um, this is a link to the last backstory episode, and the picture in the thumbnail is that one. So, if you click on it, it should open up to a bigger picture. Yeah. And it's a really, you should listen to it. It's a really fun episode. Yeah. I'm still upset because Diana Williams, that was y'all's producer, we had planned for your last episode to be a live episode and we were going to do it the Paramount and fill the entire audience with teachers and kids and we'd already gotten permission from the Paramount and everything.

[01:28:17]>> A COVID hit and y'all had to finish the last three months in a closet recording.

[01:28:24]Uh, right.

[01:28:26]I Yes.

[01:28:28]>> Was it you that put the baby mattress in the closet? Somebody was putting mattresses or pillows on the wall.

[01:28:33]>> I just I just was sitting in my closet.

[01:28:37]I did all these um podcasts in my closet on the floor in a closet that had no room with my back against my gym clothes and and a wall in front of me. Yeah, I I have, Mandy, I have gotten a bone density test and I do have um osteopenia and osteoporosis sadly. So, um, yeah.

[01:28:56]>> Not make your link show up on the screen. That's pretty >> I don't know what I did.

[01:29:03]>> That's saying you're having trouble following the links, but if you had them bigger, people wouldn't have to squint.

[01:29:08]They could probably grab them easier.

[01:29:11]>> Yeah. I Well, I double >> How we did that?

[01:29:13]>> I double clicked.

[01:29:15]>> Oh, okay.

[01:29:16]>> But I don't know like what that does.

[01:29:19]Wonder if I do it if it would show up big and that would help people get the links faster.

[01:29:24]>> I I do not know.

[01:29:25]>> I don't think I have that superpower. I think only you do.

[01:29:28]>> The superpower. Oh, maybe I maybe I Anyway, I I if I again get another photo, if I can find it, I'll >> Yeah, somebody was saying, could we repost all the links? We used to be able to repost the Zoom transcript so everybody could get links, but YouTube doesn't work that way, so I don't have a way to capture all the links. Um, I think James Dennis for a while was posting them in Slack, but I'm not sure that anybody's doing that anymore. Um, and was it you Jimden's James Dennis? I think it was. Um, yeah. But anyway, listen to that last that finale episode. It's really sweet.

[01:30:10]And also, um, y'all are the first history podcast to get archived by the Library of Congress, which is pretty cool.

[01:30:17]>> Backstory.

[01:30:18]>> Yeah. AAPB is the audio part of the Library of Congress, and you are the first history podcast to be archived there.

[01:30:30]>> I didn't know that. I did not know that.

[01:30:33]>> I How would I know?

[01:30:34]>> Diana told me that. That's how I knew.

[01:30:36]>> Oh, >> yeah. She got a letter and then Ed had to sign something, you know, to say it was okay. And >> Wow. No, I had no idea.

[01:30:45]>> Yeah. Yeah. If you go, you the only thing and I love the AAPB. They're great, but it's not as easy to navigate there. So, I think it's still easier to go to the um backstory archive. You know, we moved them all over to our site because all those links got broken at Virginia Humanities and there was nobody there to fix them anymore. So, all of them are here. Um, I'll put the link for all of them. All of them are here, but they're also at the AAPB site, but it's just a little wonky to navigate. So, I just think it's easier to go here and get them. Um, plus these have all the transcripts and all the um lessons that you guys had at NE grant for a while, and some people wrote lessons.

[01:31:25]>> Repeat for me why it was first.

[01:31:28]Um, they said it was the first longest running history podcast that they chose that they thought was of cultural significance and need to be preserved is what the article said. There was an article about it in their blog. So, >> who was the they >> uh AAPB, American Archive of Public Broadcasting, which is the audio wing of the Library of Congress.

[01:31:48]>> Yeah.

[01:31:49]>> Oh, I didn't know that. You just made my day.

[01:31:52]>> I thought I thought you knew that.

[01:31:55]>> Oh, wow. Wow.

[01:31:57]>> Yeah. Here, I'm gonna put the AAPB page.

[01:32:01]That's a mouthful. Um, that talks about No, they they've got a different picture. Y'all aren't standing up, so you don't look quite as short in that one.

[01:32:08]>> Okay. I couldn't find it.

[01:32:10]>> Picture. It's also taken at the Parammont that same night.

[01:32:13]>> Yeah.

[01:32:14]>> Okay. There's the AAPB special collection backtory article.

[01:32:19]>> Cool.

[01:32:19]>> That's a really cute picture, too. It's got all of y'all. Um, yeah.

[01:32:25]Okay.

[01:32:27]>> All of y'all in there and yeah, it's really nice. Um, and they have all kinds of other great audio stuff. You know, they've got old radio shows and Yeah, that and the internet archive are where I usually get like historical audio clips for kids.

[01:32:45]>> Uh, right. That's amazing.

[01:32:48]>> Lessons. Yep. Because they're all public domain.

[01:32:52]This is totally unrelated, but people are talking about weight training. I love weight training. I love weightlifting. Um, and I know it's really good for your bones. I haven't been good about going to the gym. Do >> you wear a Jane Fonda outfit like Jane Fonda used to wear with all the bright colors?

[01:33:07]>> I still own them.

[01:33:09]>> Do what was it? Jam Lee Curtis made that movie about that. Do you remember that movie where she was >> I still own Okay, this is mortifying, but I'm telling you guys, I still own the little sparkly, you know, Jane Fondaardy things. I have one that has like a thong back.

[01:33:31]I don't know if you guys remember those, but >> Curtis's was sort of like that in that movie she did. What was that movie called? Perfect. I think >> Yeah, maybe it was Perfect. I had one of those.

[01:33:42]I have my leg warmers. I have a pink headband. I have the whole thing. I just didn't get rid of them. So, yeah, >> that's so funny. And Olivia Newton John, what was that song? Let's get physical where she was wearing that kind of clothes.

[01:33:55]>> Oh, yeah. That's true.

[01:33:57]>> When MTV first came out.

[01:33:59]>> Oh, and Kay is right. I can't do all the running and still have time for the gym.

[01:34:02]>> Yeah.

[01:34:03]>> Someone came up to me yesterday when uh Wednesday and wanted to know if I really ran. Was I a runner? I was like, "No, Heather Heather jokes me about that every time."

[01:34:16]>> So, um, >> that's so >> Anyway, I guess it's I guess it's past time and we should go.

[01:34:23]>> Um, >> all right. Well, happy Mother's Day to those of you that are mothers.

[01:34:27]>> Oh, I should have said that before. Yes.

[01:34:29]Happy Mother's Day to those who celebrate. Um, and, uh, thank you guys all for being here and for being the community that you are. Um, I will be back next week talking about some new crazy thing. Heather cleans her bathroom every Saturday and I go and buy apples.

[01:34:47]We are predictable people. Um, >> oh, Gary, we all said hi.

[01:34:54]>> The apple guy is like famous.

[01:34:56]>> We're the apple guy. I told him he's gonna get a swelled head. Anyway, >> thank you guys uh for coming. I am going to try and watch sus tonight. Um, love all you guys. Be good and you will see me soon. I will. Heather and I will be on tomorrow morning. I may be on tonight. I don't know. Actually, I won't be on tonight because I'm gonna be watching TV. Um but over the weekend, I will. So, um All right. Have a great weekend, everybody. Thank you.

[01:35:20]>> You guys. Bye.