The Chilling Prison Lies That Helped Send Taylor Parker To Death Row

[00:00:00]So, what pushed her to actually steal a [music] baby, to rip a baby out of a woman's womb? I mean, what do you think?

[00:00:09]How do you think that she got to that point? Because like she herself points out, she did not have a record. She didn't have a criminal. Well, she had done a lot of fraud, but she hadn't been arrested for it. I guess you could say that. And but she'd never done anything as brutal as this. She never crossed the line in any of her fraud to do anything that was illegal. Is that what we're saying?

[00:00:31]>> No, she she did a lot of things that were illegal. She was doing that.

[00:00:35]>> Well, I guess fraud is illegal.

[00:00:36]>> Benefits fraud, but and you know, forgery, but she had not committed a murder. Well, I think that anytime, you know, if somebody's like that who I honestly is delusional, I mean, anybody that can take it that far to the place where they're pretending that they're pregnant and trying to fool everybody and taking it to extremes to get like prosthetics in involved and get to that place where it's kind of like you want to get nuts, let's get nuts, you See, I don't think she was delusional because in my mind, that word implies like mental illness to the point where I really believe this happening. I don't think that [ __ ] thought that at all.

[00:01:18]She knew exactly what she was doing.

[00:01:19]>> But I think that anybody who is telling their their future husband and the community that they live in that they're pregnant and they're not and they're taking it to these extremes. I think that that is delusional. No, it's sociopathic. Is that a word?

[00:01:38]>> I mean, maybe I'm using the wrong term, but yeah.

[00:01:40]>> Well, I mean, obviously you're entitled to your terms. But [laughter] >> yeah, but I mean, but you see what I'm saying? Because I'm thinking delusional.

[00:01:48]That sounds like some like mother who just want who thinks she is a mother and she's not and she then she commits this horrible crime and it's all mental illness and she should be locked up in a you know hospital. But that's not what was happen. I feel like I feel >> she was intentionally deceptive. And maybe I'm giving her the benefit of the doubt by saying that she's delusional.

[00:02:10]>> And there's no way when you hear the details of what she did to that woman, Reagan Hancock, just was so brutal. And I think it was just because she like she said in a few text messages to her aunt leading up to that she's going to come back with a baby and shove it all in their faces because they were not believing her because she was lying. And I think this was just her attempt to be like, "Yeah, kind of in a sick way. You want to get Nes? Let's get Nes.

[00:02:37]>> I'm going to show them." Yeah.

[00:02:39]>> Which is a crazy extreme to take it to just to prove that you're right. Even though you're lying the whole time, >> right? like she was physically physically whatever angry that these people were didn't believe her because she's if you've seen the recap, you know that she has spent an entire lifetime lying just about everything and she had several fake pregnancies before this and >> and about all the money she had and everything like that, you know, all the >> illnesses, just literally anything you could think of. But so and it seemed like she kind of it's hard to tell if everybody did believe her, but it seems like most people believed her mostly for the reason that you'll hear that who the [ __ ] would make it up. Like that's pretty much why people believe people.

[00:03:27]>> But I think basically you start somewhere in life where you just say, "I wish things were this way and they're not." And so you make up your own reality. And when you see that maybe on in in little increments that you can get away with that, yes, >> you you know, you just kind of like you build it up and then you get to a place where you're like, well, for the most part, I'm able to just tell people whatever I want to be real and they believe me and so why won't this work, too?

[00:03:51]>> Yeah. And she was really charismatic and convincing and people did believe her and you know, pretty much everything.

[00:03:57]But then as she continued to let this fake pregnancy go on without faking a miscarriage like she had in the past, then believing her. That pissed her off. I feel like pissed her off.

[00:04:07]>> Over time, people started kind of raising their eyebrows and then and then her real, you know, past friends kind of came in and were like, you know, she's had a hyerectomy. And and that's when it was really like, hey, this isn't real.

[00:04:21]And Yeah. And she just kept on taking it to that extreme.

[00:04:25]>> Yeah.

[00:04:25]>> You know, to to the the awful end.

[00:04:28]>> Yeah. All right. So, let's get into her behavior in prison. This is while she was waiting for trial. So, this is all happening before she got convicted, which is why some of the prisoners and prison staff testified at her trial and sentencing. Now, the jury could have given her life in prison, but they opted for the death penalty, not just because of what she did to Reagan and the baby Brax Lynn, but because her behavior after getting arrested confirmed she's a threat to society. And one of those people that testified against her is a prison therapist who told the court that Taylor is not like any other inmate that she'd come into contact with before. She said she's smart and appears to thrive in jail.

[00:05:17]>> According to this counselor, Taylor manipulates inmates and guards just like she's been manipulating everybody else around her whole life. and she said that during their meetings together, Taylor never talked about being remorseful for these crimes. In fact, prosecutors say that Taylor has alternately continued to claim innocence or told a bunch of random stories, different variations of explaining that she did it, but she was forced to or that she was framed. And these stories and the way she's saying that she was framed for this just are absolutely insane. H >> Yeah. How does she What What kind of rationale is she using there to say she was framed? I'm curious to hear this.

[00:06:05]>> It gets wild.

[00:06:07]>> So, one inmate testified that she and Taylor had discussed the murder and Taylor had a lot of different versions, but mostly it came down to some variations on this one. And this is to answer your question, how she's trying to say she was framed. And this story, I should say, is mostly a lot of is a direct quote from a write up by KTLA News 10.

[00:06:27]>> God bless those people because they dug deep and they got some good stuff.

[00:06:30]>> So, it starts with her in jail. She hears this other inmate's voice. This poor woman's name is Hannah. She hears Hannah's voice in a neighboring cell at the jail. And this sparks a memory that she had been at Reagan's house the night before. and they had planned to meet up again the next morning after Reagan's husband went to work. So Taylor gets up early. She goes to Walmart to fill up with gas when her boyfriend Wade calls her and tells her an insurance adjuster is coming to the house and that she needed to go let the dogs out.

[00:07:03]Interestingly, let me interject here because when she was in the ambulance in real life on the way to the hospital in Oklahoma after the murders, she was texting with a neighbor who saw these insurance adjusters at the house at Wade's house and didn't know what was going on. Like this neighbor apparently is one that they'd had come over and get the dogs out in the past and help them out and stuff. So, she the neighbor wants to know, do I need to go get the dogs out or what? Is it safe over there?

[00:07:31]because apparently the adjusters or whoever was there were wearing hazmat suits because if you remember Taylor had allegedly, I don't think she was convicted for this, but started a fire under Wade's house so that they didn't have to go to the hospital for her supposed due date.

[00:07:48]So now there's these people there trying to clean up that mess. and Taylor, who is in the middle of this crazy thing, mind you, in the back of an ambulance after having just murdered a woman, stolen the baby, she is texting with this neighbor, just nonchalant as you please, saying, "Oh, no. Everything's fine over there. Lol.

[00:08:08]No, there's no hazardous go. Yes, please go over and, you know, take the dogs out. They're just checking out the house. It's safe. Take the dogs."

[00:08:17]I I mean, >> were they really insurance adjusters, though? I mean, >> they were somebody real like >> But with hazmat suits on, >> they were Yeah. I mean, there was a fire under a trailer. They don't know there's hazardous materials burn.

[00:08:30]>> That's a good point. Yeah.

[00:08:31]>> And they have to get the dogs out side before strangers come into the house. Is that the idea?

[00:08:35]>> I feel like you're focusing on the wrong thing.

[00:08:37]>> No, I just want to understand the whole thing.

[00:08:39]>> Yes. That's what's happening >> because that's a big point cuz it sets up the reason that she would be texting with the neighbors because her husband told her the insurance adjusters were coming and that the neighbors have to get the dogs out because she's not there.

[00:08:51]>> Yes, but honey, you're Yeah, that is there were people at the house in real life, but in this [ __ ] story, she's saying that Wade, she was at Walmart and Wade told her to go to the house and get the dogs out because the insurance adjusters were there. But that actually goes to a different point I want to make really quick. In every lie, like all good liars know, you've heard this, that there has to be an element of truth. And that's way you can keep track of lies.

[00:09:18]So you really see that thread running through Taylor's [ __ ] Because in this case specifically, she's telling this woman, "I'm at Walmart. Wait, text me. Go to the house. Get the dogs out.

[00:09:30]Insurance is there." Well, that's not true. at that moment she or who knows where she was, maybe committing murders, maybe she was in the ambulance in real life, but in real real life, those people showed up. While she was in the ambulance, her neighbor had that text. I mean, do you understand?

[00:09:49]>> Yes. The neighbors reached out to her because they saw people at the house and said, >> "Yes."

[00:09:55]>> Okay. But [laughter] like all I'm trying to get at here is like the level of crazy that we're dealing with because >> Well, I think it's crazy. I think the point, the setting of her, you know, having been pulled over, you know, by the cops because she needed help because she just gave birth and now she's in the back of the ambulance after after having done what she had done and knowing that she had done it and texting this in this way in such a nonchalant way. Yeah. I mean, >> yeah, I mean that's that's psycho. Yeah.

[00:10:20]>> It's [ __ ] crazy. I mean, it's so crazy. So, anyway, back to this prison story. So on the way home to let the dogs out in this false reality, Taylor claims that she saw a car on the side of the road with its lights flashing. And she stops to ask, "Is everyone okay?"

[00:10:36]And that's the last thing she remembers before she's drugged. So she claims she came to with her face against the window in the back of a car with two females and a male. And in later versions of this story, she tries to blame this all on Wade. That's another one. And so one is framed, one was drugged, one was I didn't do it at all. It was Wade. So in that version, she claims she knew she was in Wade's car by the smell of his work clothes. So she's in and out because of the drugging and she woke again in a carport or a garage and she hears noises before she passes out again. And she comes to in front of the washer and dryer inside Reagan's home.

[00:11:15]She hears a bunch of commotion and she was trying to pull her body up, but she was drugged so she couldn't do it. But she finally makes it to the kitchen where someone was being attacked and someone swung something at her. So she held her hand up and the blow broke her hand.

[00:11:32]>> And did she have a broken hand in the hospital when she was talking to the cops?

[00:11:38]>> She did not.

[00:11:38]>> Okay. Oh, that's interesting.

[00:11:41]>> So she said she broke her hand, but then she didn't have a broken hand, >> right? No, I mean that's like she said she was pregnant. She didn't I mean it doesn't matter. She'll say anything. But yeah, that's a very like >> So no, she didn't.

[00:11:53]>> But then she claimed somebody told her to get up and they whooped her again.

[00:11:58]And when she came to she was slipping in something and she didn't know at the time where the blood was coming from, herself or Reagan or someone else. But by that time the gang gang was leaving and it was just her and Reagan left alone together. And Taylor was freaking out and crying at the sight of her quote best friend in that condition. And then that's when Reagan told her to take the baby, asking her, "Could you please help my daughter?" Because her body was dying and she wanted Taylor's help to save the baby. So Taylor tells Reagan she didn't know what to do until she remembered she had a scalpel set in her car.

[00:12:36]>> So her car is there. I mean, I thought she was in Wade's car. Yeah. Well, apparently that's all part of the frame up. So, she took a guess and just knew her car was also there with her scalpel.

[00:12:51]It's It's convoluted.

[00:12:53]>> Why Why does she have a scalpel in the car? What's that?

[00:12:57]>> I'm not totally clear on that. It may have something to do with the hogs because her and Wade had that side business selling and killing butchering wild hogs. So, she might have had scalples. I mean, she may have had to skin and >> it seems >> I know it's not clear she did because the police in real life did not find a knife like that in her car. Not that she would have carried it with her. She left it embedded in Reagan's neck, but they didn't find anything where it might have come from. They did find a loaded gun in her car. Um, but it is Texas, so that's not that unusual. But anyway, so so now in this story, it's up to Taylor, the hero, to save Brax Lynn. And Taylor tells this inmate that she's used to doing C-sections on animals from working on the farm, which is just wild. But that she and total [ __ ] I don't know that any a hobby farmer would do a C-section. That's why they have large animal vets. But all right.

[00:14:03]>> Yeah. I mean, of all the lies, it's the least of that's the least one to be concerned about.

[00:14:08]>> So, she's so she feels like she knows how to do a C-section from the animals, not from watching, you know, instructional videos. So, she tells Reagan, she tells her she could not do it and she didn't have the nerve, but that was when she claims Reagan shoved the scalpel in Taylor's broken hand, put it on her own stomach, and pulled the knife across.

[00:14:29]>> Wow. So, while this was happening, Taylor claims Reagan's three-year-old daughter came out and Taylor yelled at the child to go back to her room. She said the little girl looked shocked and scared and went back to her room and shut the door and Taylor never saw her again. So, now she's trying to get the baby out and she says the baby's leg popped out. So, she grabbed it. The umbilical cord was wrapped around the baby's neck. The baby was turning blue.

[00:14:54]And this was when Taylor claimed she had the baby in her hands and she held the baby up to Reagan with tears streaming down her face like a hero and told her, "Look, here's your baby girl. We did it.

[00:15:06]Here's your baby girl." And that Reagan smiled before taking one last deep breath and dies. Now, Taylor says she tried to do CPR on the baby on the couch, but it wasn't working. So, she grabbed the baby and ran out the door.

[00:15:18]That's a lot to take in and to think about and to realize. I mean, I can't It's It's amazing. You You think you got somebody dead to rights and there's no way that they can like uh um you know, have anything else to say about it. But the story that Let me see if I got this straight, but that she was at Reagan's house, her best friend.

[00:15:45]>> I mean, that's what she's saying. And no, I know it's that's part of it. And there was some sort of gang that attacked them. And when it was all over with, all the details, Reagan was was going to die. She was lost. And her last wish was to try to save her baby. And the way to do that was to take Taylor's hand with the scalpel in it and drag it across her belly to cut her open. That she's actually controlling her hand to do >> right. So none of this was Taylor's fault. In actuality, she was the hero >> and she tried to save the baby and in the end after doing CPR, she couldn't.

[00:16:26]>> Right.

[00:16:28]>> Wow.

[00:16:28]>> I mean, it's just so sick.

[00:16:31]>> But also, again, to go back to that element of truth, there's always I want I want to know what part of this was true.

[00:16:40]>> Well, >> like what tiny element in this was true?

[00:16:43]Like for example, the daughter, Reagan's daughter, [snorts] we know she was there. Of course, it's early in the morning. She still had her nighttime pull-up diapers on because they found them on top of the blood in the living room. So, at some point, she took them off or they got pulled off, who knows?

[00:17:03]But so, it's very it's so disturbing to think how much that little girl saw of her mother's murder.

[00:17:11]She certainly saw the aftermath.

[00:17:14]Um, but I wonder if that's the element of truth here where ta where she came out because she hears fighting of course and then Taylor maybe her to go back.

[00:17:24]>> Yeah, that may very well be the element of truth because what you know it's an interesting detail to include if it didn't happen. I mean what what what purpose would that serve her cause to add that in if it didn't exist?

[00:17:37]>> Yeah, that's exact. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean really doesn't. So, God, it's so cuz you do wonder Jesus, how please God, don't let her have been there for the whole thing, right?

[00:17:50]>> But it would make sense if Taylor had screamed at her to go to her room because that is where she was found, hiding under the >> the blankets. But I think so. Oh, >> that it's so sick. I hope to God that child can forget as much as possible, you know.

[00:18:07]So then I guess the whole thing is that that story that she tells is is what in her mind that's what really happened. I was the hero. I didn't do anything wrong. But I I told everybody it was my baby because this other reality seemed so terrible. I I didn't want to tell you about it. Like I don't you know what I'm saying?

[00:18:31]>> Yeah. It's hard to I think.

[00:18:33]>> And then I would say okay cool. Where's your kid?

[00:18:37]>> You [laughter] know.

[00:18:37]>> Yeah.

[00:18:38]>> If that if all that's true, so where's your child then? You know >> what do you mean if all that's true?

[00:18:44]>> Well, I'm just saying if you if if it's true that this attack happened and you saved the baby, you tried to and you couldn't and you know what happened?

[00:18:51]Where's your where's your baby? I mean >> Oh, I know. Well, she doesn't really get into that. I mean, you can see if you watch the hospital interrogation clips that we added in the recap and you can see the whole thing. It's really crazy.

[00:19:05]But she when she is asked a question she doesn't want to answer, she will just stop talking. Like she really won't say anything. It's kind of kind of impressive because most people when they're caught in a lie, they'll just start talking faster and get themselves further confused, but she really doesn't. She just trails off and just kind of stares into the distance or stares at you. And that is something that came up. I I remember reading this in our research that like friends would mention that if she was, you know, confronted about something, she just won't answer.

[00:19:39]>> Maybe that's part of the sociopathic behavior being able to do that.

[00:19:43]>> Yeah.

[00:19:44]>> You know, just to be in the middle of something and I just stop talking. Like >> it's really interesting.

[00:19:50]>> Yeah.

[00:19:51]For example, in that hospital interrogation video, the detective, he's being very nice to her because he's trying to get some information out of her. And so he tells her, you know, what was her name? Cuz he's just calling Reagan the lady. He doesn't ever say her name. And that's part of, you know, if you know her name, then that's another element to a confession where I never said it, you said it. So, it seems almost as if Taylor knows that. And I'm not saying she doesn't. She very well might, but she doesn't say Reagan's name ever. Even when he asked her, "What was her name? What was her name?" She'll just like she just stopped talking.

[00:20:25]>> And then the detective, they're sitting there in silence for a little bit and then he just he starts up with a new line of questioning. It's really interesting to watch. You're just like, "Wow, that is a level." But to your point, >> it is a level >> of like sociopathic behaviors. They call it cluster B. And I can't I'm not going to go on and on about this because I really don't know that much about it, but it's a cluster of these horrible antisocial disorders that present if they present in one person, I guess this is what you get. But it's like narcissism combined with with sociopath behavior where you don't have any empathy or any remorse about anything and everybody around you is not really real. They're just kind of bit players in your main character life.

[00:21:13]>> Yeah.

[00:21:14]>> And because they're not real, you can do whatever you want with them and >> it doesn't matter.

[00:21:19]>> Right. That's that's so sociopathic behavior, >> right? So that's only one of the cluster. It's like all these horrible personality traits.

[00:21:28]>> That's just one part of cluster B.

[00:21:30]>> Yeah.

[00:21:31]>> And they think that >> she has that. And it that doesn't that's not a legal insane definition of any in any way like >> but there are other things included in that aside from the sociopathic behavior is what you're saying >> that I'm not really I'm not remembering much right now cuz I didn't go too far down that rabbit hole but but yeah >> the girl isn't right but she's not but she's perfectly sane she's just a monster in a sense.

[00:21:59]>> Yeah.

[00:22:00]>> Yeah. But to but to be able but just to to be in prison after the whole thing and still continue to sort of you know because it makes you wonder.

[00:22:10]>> I mean I'm just thinking about it right now. Are you just still trying to convince everybody like always or do you really believe this? I mean do you in your mind do you think >> No, that's but that's what I'm saying.

[00:22:20]She doesn't believe it.

[00:22:21]>> She doesn't. That's the distinction. She doesn't believe it.

[00:22:24]>> No. No. I don't think so. She doesn't I don't know obviously but I'm just in my opinion >> I think I I think I agree with that. I think that it's it's more that she's just trying to fool everybody still.

[00:22:35]>> I think a good example Sorry, go ahead.

[00:22:37]>> But I think Well, but I think that the the psychoticness of it is the belief that she really can can fool everybody still.

[00:22:46]>> Yes. That's where I'm saying like if you remember Andrea Yates, the mother in Texas who drowned her, did she drown all five children? I can't remember exactly, but that's delusional because she really believed was it God was telling her to do it or something. But she absolutely believed that and then once they got her on meds in prison, she recognized that that was not right. But she also recognizes that she should not be out of prison, that she is a danger to herself and others because of this. That's that's true delusion where you don't know what you're doing because you are delusional. in a chemical imbalanced clinical sense of the word, but this is just >> you're a horrible person.

[00:23:31]>> You're a horrible person and you think you can fool everybody else.

[00:23:34]>> Yeah. Smarter than everybody, >> right? And when you think that you can fool everybody else and just come up with whatever reality that you want to and everybody will go along with it and believe you and that you have control over that then I suppose a person like that who is also a bad person will commit these types of things you know.

[00:23:55]>> Yeah. I mean again just our opinions obviously not a doctor but but in my mind hard to tell like I just really don't like her like obviously considering what she did. So, I don't know. But >> yeah, me neither.

[00:24:09]>> Thanks. I'm good, honey. I don't want you to like this killer.

[00:24:13]>> So, if all of this actually did take place, this attack and everything in this entire process, why didn't she just pick up the phone and call 911 ever?

[00:24:23]>> Oh, I know. In this fake story, does 911 not exist in this reality? Well, >> I mean, cuz she called them from the car, right?

[00:24:30]>> She did only after she was getting pulled over.

[00:24:33]>> Uhhuh. But she had an explanation for that 911 thing too for this inmate story. She said she did not know she had her phone until it slipped out from under the seat in the car and hit her feet. And that's when she picked it up and discovered that it was on airplane mode. So she was driving while she's trying to get her phone working. She's holding on to the baby. And then in this story, that's when the state trooper pulled her over. So she also had names for everyone in this gang. There's Kodiak, Jay Dog, Fatboy, and later this poor inmate, Hannah.

[00:25:09]>> Why this poor inmate? I mean, >> because she just randomly picked this inmate, Hannah, to decide that that was the woman who framed her for this murder because she's trying to get this random inmate who was not in for murder, probably in for like skipping probation or something, and she wanted to get her framed for this brutal double murder. I think it's interesting that during like a home invasion that she would be able to get all their names, you know, what did they introduce each other first?

[00:25:40]>> They're probably rapping Sesame Street.

[00:25:42]>> Yeah. And why would why would they attack them in the first place? Like why would this if this were like a gang? I mean, what was the motivation for this home invasion, this attack? I mean, what why?

[00:25:56]>> Well, there's different version there's different answers to that, too. But in one version of the story, Taylor tells this inmate that she was in debt to a drug dealer because she had a um like a pain med habit or something. Don't know that she did, but that's what she's saying. And that members of this gang overheard her talking about getting $10,000 out of her safe and discussing where she planned to go with it in the morning. So that's they targeted for that. And then in another version, she told people she was targeted for drugging and kidnapping because she was known to have large sums of money and that Reagan paid the price. And in that one, she does acknowledge that was a lie. She goes, "My money lie got my friend killed and no matter what, I'll wear the scar on my heart forever." And then this is a quote, "I don't want to be a hero because I wasn't that day."

[00:26:49]Reagan refused to show those sobs any weakness. As I begged, pleaded, cried, screamed. She told me to say nothing. I will never unsee the worst day of my life. Yeah. And then Taylor actually tells people that Hannah, this random inmate, she tells people Hannah had confessed to the crime.

[00:27:12]>> And did this inmate believe this story?

[00:27:16]>> Okay. I mean, >> I'm so glad you asked that because the answer is yes. Yes, she did. All the things that you're bringing up of like, well, what about those? Yes, she did.

[00:27:27]She told the court she felt stupid for believing her in hindsight, but she actually did. And for the same reasons Taylor has been getting away with this crazy [ __ ] her whole life because she said it was just too much to imagine that one person could orchestrate this much, fool this many people at one time.

[00:27:45]And she went on to say, "She's very convincing. She's a great liar. She remembers down to every detail. I don't know how she does it. She's able to keep track of multiple characters, details, and story lines and recall them on the spot." And she goes, "It was just too much to remember for it to be a lie.

[00:28:03]It's quite impressive, but it's sick."

[00:28:05]Which is like, yeah, that's kind of how she gets away with it. It's >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I guess. So, it's it's it's all in the details, I suppose. You know, >> it's I mean, it's just it's crazy.

[00:28:17]>> Well, what was the I mean, what was the bottom line with the with this with the story with this story?

[00:28:22]>> What was the endg game? What was >> Well, so basically for Taylor to get out, but she she had forged a note that looked like a suicide confession to this crime from Hannah, the random inmate.

[00:28:34]And the reason that she picked Hannah was because she was on suicide watch and just generally having a hard time. So, she was vulnerable and she really thought if this other inmate gave it gave this suicide note confession to the DA or police or something that they would believe it and let Taylor out of prison. See, this inmate that she's talking to was getting out and she wanted her help on the outside. So apparently Taylor wrote out a master plan identifying everyone's roles in this scheme. And it included notes to contact an attorney in Arkansas who' represented an inmate who got hit with life, but he got out with time served after new evidence came to light. And Taylor wanted that attorney to look at her case to see if he thinks this new evidence in the form of this suicide note from Hannah is enough to release her or, you know, get rid of the charges or or what. And then she wanted that attorney to call her mother if he could do something better on her case, like if he could get her out. So, she wanted this inmate to be her quote top lead witness and pass on evidence of this plan to kill Taylor in jail. That was another thing she came up with. There was a plan to kill her.

[00:29:57]>> Man, so it's hard to keep all this straight.

[00:30:00]>> I know. I know.

[00:30:01]>> I don't know how I mean I >> I know. And some of the things that she said about Reagan to this woman. I mean, and the jury saw these letters. Like I said, this is half this is part of the reason why she got the death penalty.

[00:30:14]And here's a couple of quotes from some of the letters that the jury saw. And she she quote, "I couldn't I couldn't bear to do that as in remove the baby by force like that. She was my friend, not a stake."

[00:30:28]>> That's a very strange thing to say.

[00:30:30]>> And like because she didn't carve her up. And then this one, I dreamed of Reagan last night. She told me to wake up and fight as in fight for her innocence.

[00:30:42]You know, it just it just strikes me as so disrespectful to try and say that kind of thing, you know? I mean, it's just >> I mean, I don't know why that's not a surprise, I guess, coming from this person.

[00:30:55]>> It's not, but it is. So, it does make you feel like, oh my god, if hauntings are real, I hope Reagan is torturing her every day and night. Because to do that to a person and then to try [clears throat] so blatantly and disgustingly to make it sound like you didn't do that, that you in fact were the hero here and that you're on that Reagan is on your side, too. And I mean, >> and honestly, you know, because from what I understand from the documentary was that Taylor was the photographer at Reagan's wedding.

[00:31:30]>> Mhm.

[00:31:30]>> Isn't that as far as their relationship goes? I mean, were they, you know, I mean, I know they weren't best friends, but were they friends to some degree? I mean, >> it's hard to tell exactly like timelinewise, but they got close at the wedding because Taylor insinuated herself into the wedding party for the most part. And then she had this Saab story that she was going through this rough divorce and all of this business.

[00:31:53]And remember, this is back in September 2019 when the wedding was, but she had known Reagan for months before that because she was also photographing their engagement. So, I think they actually first met. I want maybe winter of 2019.

[00:32:11]You might know better. But >> so they'd kind of known each other, but I wouldn't say they were best friends, but then she got closer to her at the wedding and >> they were close, but it's hard to tell exactly how much they stayed in contact.

[00:32:23]There was some, but then there was something in the research about how Reagan had actually reached out to her cuz I'm sure they were obviously Facebook friends or social media friends and Reagan had reached out to her to ask about her pregnancies or something and Taylor hadn't responded and stuff like that. But then all of a sudden when Taylor realized that she needed a baby and there was one right there, that's when she got more that's when she got back in contact, >> you know, a few weeks a week or so before. But um but again, like I feel like there's so many different elements to the timeline that I've seen different accounts. So >> yeah, >> you know, but >> hard to know. But to get back to the idea that she's being disrespectful to Reagan, I love that because yeah, >> it's such it does sound like, well, after everything she did to her, disrespect, but it just feels so sick.

[00:33:14]It's just like insult upon injury, you know, like not only do you brutally murder this woman in the most horribly painful way possible, take her away from her loved ones, her child, take her child away from everybody, but then you have to act like >> I think I think that last thing though about she had a dream and she told her to wake up and fight.

[00:33:36]>> Yes. You know, like like like she's saying that, oh, you know, Reagan knows that I'm in >> Yes. Holy [ __ ] I mean, no wonder she got the death penalty.

[00:33:48]>> And it's even more blatant, actually, since she was arrested right when the pandemic was happening. She had to wear a face mask to pre-trial hearings, and she wore one with sunflowers on it.

[00:34:00]>> Well, what's the significance of that?

[00:34:01]>> Okay. Well, the sunflower was Reagan's favorite flower, and members of the courtroom gallery were wearing sunflower jewelry, clothing, all of this in remembrance of Reagan and Braxlin. And sunflowers were a prominent theme in Reagan's wedding, which >> yes, Taylor was the photographer. That was a year before the murders. And so Taylor would apparently wear that sunflower mask even when she didn't have to when no one else was wearing masks.

[00:34:33]She had that on.

[00:34:34]>> So she So again, that falls into the same sort of category of disrespectfulness, I think, because it's saying, "I'm remembering her, too, because I I feel just as bad as everybody else."

[00:34:49]>> Exactly. That's exactly And that's exactly what she would say. She would say, "I lost somebody, too."

[00:34:55]>> I mean, >> you know, that's ugly.

[00:34:58]>> It is. It's just >> That's just That's really weird.

[00:35:02]>> It's It's Yeah, it's just hard for me to wrap my head around. I cannot >> But it's like goes back to is are you for real, girl? Like, are you is this del like actual chemical delusion?

[00:35:15]>> Well, no.

[00:35:16]>> But it's not. I just I mean, >> now you're confused. It's not delusional, but it is amazing like just some of the things that she thinks about, you know, to >> a sunflower mask like >> No, I mean just the Reagan loves sunflowers. Everybody's going to be wearing sunflowers. I'm going to wear a sunflower mask, too.

[00:35:36]>> It's like wow.

[00:35:37]>> Yeah. It's it's like wearing the the pin for the cause, even though you're the one who caused the cause to be a cause.

[00:35:44]>> You know what I mean? And it's amazing to me >> that that's even something that crossed her mind, you know, to know this and go, I'll I'm going to have my own tribute as well.

[00:35:56]>> Yeah. That detail just to add that in.

[00:35:58]Oh man. I mean, the level of >> it's crazy. But it didn't stop in jail.

[00:36:04]I mean, prison officials said that she was manipulating various inmates to do things for her that she thought would set her free. So, not just, hey, take this note and this story, but there is there is more. There is another woman.

[00:36:17]This is an older lady who Taylor befriended. She called her Granny. And this woman was about to be released. So, Taylor offers Granny $5,000 to find witnesses who had testified to some crazy details that she'd come cooked up.

[00:36:32]She wrote it all out in the pages of a puzzle book that she wanted Granny to take with her when she got out. So she wanted her to find four people, black people, not white. And she wanted that was very important because she thought that people would be more impressed if black people were taking up for this white girl. So she wanted them to say that she was not there at all, like at Reagan's house. Now, this is a little convoluted, but the KTLA writeup says that she wrote to Granny, "I need you to get help from someone you can trust when you get back home." When things hit the news and paper, the people will need to go to the detectives and say, "I," as in they, these random people were driving home the morning of October 9th and saw a few vehicles on the side of the road.

[00:37:21]I didn't think anything of it, but seen the paper and news. I need to tell someone what I saw." And the instructions continued in these really specific details about what these witnesses should say about going to the casino in Idabel and staying up at a friend's house all night playing dominoes along with the route that they were supposed to say that they took home where Taylor wanted them to claim to have seen a flashing lights and pulled up to a black Toyota and a silver car to see if they needed help. Remember, she was in a black Toyota. It would describe a white boy and a black girl with braids. One side of her braids had blonde and white together and that they were holding up a white girl. That white girl's Taylor passed out. Now, this is that this is to round out the idea of a gang drugging and kidnapping her. So, these are witnesses that are supposed to say they saw the gang doing this. Oh, the black girl said the black girl in this fantasy witness lineup said no. They had been partying and their friend got Oh, I'm sorry. This is the black girl is part of the gang that's hurting Taylor. So, when they asked this girl, "What's going on?"

[00:38:33]This girl, they're supposed to say that she said they were partying. Their friend got sick and passed out and they were putting her in the passenger side.

[00:38:42]And then this girl walked over by a Hispanicl looking girl who didn't say anything and that she this Hispanic girl in the gang had a shaved line in her eyebrow and a pierced lip. And this is going to be the eyewitness that we we need. Taylor saying this to Granny that they were pulled over on Highway 8 before you get to Old Boston and that this passed out white girl will be me underlined four times. That was in this letter. And then she said, "Keep this letter safe and don't let anyone read it. It won't be safe for me to mail once this letter hits. Be smart, granny. pick someone smart who will bring the details to life. So once it's done and the detective says so I'll I will mail you 5,000.

[00:39:31]>> That's >> I ask you.

[00:39:34]>> Yeah, that's this keeps on growing into things and just the planning of it [clears throat] like I'm kind of in my mind going >> could that could this work? [laughter] You know I know it's terrifying. It's It's pretty >> Maybe if she hadn't done something so brutal and awful and so obviously >> [ __ ] like lying that you were pregnant for 10 months, >> but the but the imagination that this person has to just not only come up with the story of what happened, you know, just the idea that like I didn't do this, but here's what really happened is is is out there, but to come up with this idea to have a person that's getting out and to use them to set up the details and get witnesses to support that story is just mindboggling. And I can't I believe it. I would never think that.

[00:40:31]>> I would never be able to come [clears throat] up with that.

[00:40:35]>> That's the level of >> and the details with the eyebrow and the line shaved. It's like what?

[00:40:40]>> I know. It's it's >> that's shocking. like you can't even get it out because that's what the prosecutor pointed to all of this to say to these jurors.

[00:40:49]>> I think that they've got enough material for a second documentary.

[00:40:53]>> I honestly I am impressed [clears throat] that Netflix managed to keep it to one like >> just the crime and everything, >> but like there could they could do interviews with these people and you know some of the the the inmates and the guards and things and say well this is this is what what's been being discussed from her.

[00:41:12]>> Yeah.

[00:41:13]Because I just think like this alone is a part two of crazy. It's >> I mean it's really >> Yeah, >> man.

[00:41:21]>> But that's why everybody believed her for so long and in so many different things in her life because of this level of detail and planning and organization that she put into >> I may be jumping the gun here, but did it did it go any further? Did Granny >> No.

[00:41:35]>> take this direction and run with it?

[00:41:37]>> No. the police.

[00:41:39]>> I think somebody turned her in or somebody said something or something and then the police went to Granny's house and at first she was like, "I don't know anything." And then they're like, "If you don't tell us right now or show us what's going on, you could be charged as an accessory or they charged they threatened to charge her with something." She was like, "Okay, fine.

[00:41:56]Take it. It's right here." M >> and I think that she I think she did testify also either at least maybe in the sentencing but so they found all of this but also I mean other versions gets to me I feel like it continues to get sicker and sicker that all these stories she's trying to spin to get out of this because other versions blame Reagan herself for calling out her fake pregnancy calling her a liar and that this story is similar to the one that she told the detective in in the hospital that day. And apparently in this story, Reagan refuses to call Wade to pose as Taylor's nurse to tell him she had lost the baby and that led to the fight that got her killed.

[00:42:40]>> Wow. It I mean it just keeps on getting deeper and deeper. But I mean hearing all this, I mean the thought I have is how did she become this person? Like what was like what was her parent her upbringing her childhood? like what what made her this way? Was she just like that? I mean naturally or did she have some kind of abuse? What do do have they >> no >> gone into that?

[00:43:08]>> I mean there at varying times she said that she had some abuse but they haven't said there's no proof of that. There's no evidence of that and her brother [clears throat] has not said that she was abused in any way. But she spent her time um you know mostly growing up with her her >> again this is kind of a little bit in the recap so I don't want to bore you with a rerun but um I don't think you saw the recap. [laughter] So >> yeah, you're not going to bore me.

[00:43:36]>> So I'll just I'm telling you this is just for us, but that she when she was 8 years old, she Okay, she starts out with a two parent home. She's about 8 years old. The mom testified to something that she was she was trying to get out of school sick every day. Her stomach was hurting. And mom finally found out that the teacher hadn't been giving Taylor any feedback, which was stressing Taylor out, so she was pretending to be sick so she didn't have to go to school. And then the following year in fourth grade or whatever grade that is, she was going to school fine because the situation was different. So it was like kind of just that first, oh, okay. So that's your get your go-to is just to completely lie come up with this full-on fabrication about how you're way too sick to go to school and for days on in.

[00:44:27]>> Mhm.

[00:44:28]>> So you don't have to. And then also >> your problem is that the teacher is not giving you any feedback. Well, what does that mean? Are you not getting enough attention? Are you getting negative feedback? And you don't like that. So, there's also that element of narcissism where nobody's paying attention to you or they're paying the wrong kind or something. And then >> I would go with um not enough aside, you know, instead of negative, I would go with not enough.

[00:44:57]>> Yeah, >> that's what I would think. Well, yeah, because it gets worse as far as not enough attention because then her parents split up when they she was about 12 and they tried to do that thing where the children stay in the home and the parents rotate, but when it came time for her father to rotate out, he would refuse to leave because he didn't want to split up and >> Wow. So, the kids stay in the house and the parents move in and out.

[00:45:22]>> Yeah.

[00:45:23]>> Weird. Oh, wow. That's heard that before. I've never heard that. No.

[00:45:27]>> I didn't know that was a thing. Huh.

[00:45:28]Yeah. I think it's positives to that.

[00:45:31]>> Kind of an interesting idea. Yeah.

[00:45:32]>> Yeah. But in this case, it didn't work because the father refused to leave and it's and so as there was like screaming fights, so the kids had to be party to that. But then as it as she got older, it sounds like she really was more of a daddy's girl and her mom and she have always kind of buted heads. And so she ended up living her father moved back in with his mother. She ended up living with them. And the grandmother apparently from the research used food as a comfort tool, you know, and so she kind of Taylor kind of got that from her. So she gained quite a bit of weight and she was apparently heavier than she wanted to be in school and she wasn't getting a lot of attention because, you know, all of her friends in her mind were skinnier and getting more attention or something. And so that was a problem. So then she ended up she got pregnant at 17. The guy really didn't want to be a father. They weren't married. It was a boyfriend. And then he kind of ditched the whole thing. And she was sort of on her own. Seemed like she was living in a trailer on the aunt's property. And then she, this is her daughter. And then she got gastric bypass in Mexico at I want to say 21 years old. And that she did obviously lose weight from that. And that's when she started getting real obsessed about her appearance and she wouldn't leave the house without makeup and all of these things. So, um >> yeah. So, that's but >> well, it sounds like she had some issues, but I mean there's a lot of people that have that kind of stuff.

[00:47:09]>> Oh, I know. I mean, of the killers that we hear about with their childhoods, this is nothing. Are you talking What are you talking about?

[00:47:16]It doesn't seem like enough to kind of push her into this area, >> but there's a little bit more to the parents that kind of you can see sort of contributed like, you know, Taylor spent her time with Wade making her mother Shauna out to be this evil villain mastermind, but this woman doesn't seem like she was some evil villain. Of course, she wasn't doing any of the things that Taylor was contri attributing to her, but she it does seem like she was very much an enabler.

[00:47:45]Again, just my opinion, but just reading what she said in court that Taylor actually had what's called conversion syndrome. And it's this sort of odd condition where a person experiences like real physical or neurological symptoms like paralysis, blindness, seizures that can't be explained by any underlying medical disease. Well, the mother used that term. She said that Taylor had that to explain why or how she could have spent most of her life going doctor to doctor complaining about various diseases and telling friends that she had them because I didn't go there's just so much I didn't say that but >> all through this weight loss journey and the whole thing she was also complaining about various things and she did apparently have a few health issues because of her weight and that was the reason for the gastric surgery to for her health because the doctors were concerned that if she didn't make a change, she was gonna have >> some serious >> serious issues.

[00:48:47]>> So her mother was sort of sticking up for her and saying >> that like well you know there's reasons behind all of these things kind of.

[00:48:56]>> Well I mean >> that's why you say that's why you feel >> she had all these symptoms and she was going and she thought she had MS or stroke and she had told people she had MS and a stroke and different things but the doctors she did not have those things. She had not had a stroke, but she so the mother is trying to say, "Well, she had the symptoms of those things in this conversion syndrome." But I'm like, "God damn, lady. You're at your daughter's death row trial here." Talk about you.

[00:49:23]>> I think Yeah. I mean, that's true. But I think parents are always going to try to save their children instinctively.

[00:49:29]>> I feel like my mother would be like, "Yep, she did it. [laughter] She's always been crazy like that.

[00:49:35]>> She My mother wouldn't surprise me. If my mother, she wouldn't. Yeah, she wouldn't do that.

[00:49:39]>> I hope your mom doesn't watch this.

[00:49:41][laughter] >> And that's [clears throat] of course she does. No, like I >> Well, yeah, cuz I remember I remember in the documentary the whole thing about her mother was, you know, when they're kind of letting out a little bit of information at a time that she's having this struggle with the with the inheritance.

[00:49:56]>> No, but all of that is [ __ ] >> No, I know. That's what I'm saying. Like like the way she painted her mother to be and who she actually was was another deception.

[00:50:06]>> Yes. I mean, the mother, she they didn't get along. That part was real. That's the >> that's the little sliver of truth in the big lie.

[00:50:13]>> Obviously, the mother wasn't doing any of those things. But, but the father, if you remember, he was at that gender reveal party for this fake pregnancy, and he knew perfectly well that she wasn't pregnant. And when they asked the because he did not testify at the trial, but when they asked the mother, what was that about? She said um that he's doesn't always tell the truth. So it sounds like if she was going to get this, hey, let's lie about everything from anyone, it might have been closer to the father, not necessarily the mother. But then the mother contributed to >> So the father So at the at the at the gender reveal, the father knew it was all [ __ ] >> Yeah. and he was there and he's [laughter] he just went along with it like okay >> I mean >> hey it's a girl >> how do you do that yeah [laughter] how do you do that and how do you see your daughter with this fake belly and that's >> so so what we're saying now is that maybe the father was an enabler as well >> well certainly if you're not telling if you're not coming in there by [laughter] putting us I mean >> why go at all it's just so weird so yeah it's it's I can't believe it.

[00:51:24]>> Yeah, >> it's there's a lot that happened there, but obviously doesn't even rise to the level of explanation. It's just like you can see, okay, so you didn't not only did you not put a stop to this, but you kind of >> helped it along.

[00:51:41]>> Like you didn't not do you didn't Yeah.

[00:51:44]>> Again, this is just our opinion.

[00:51:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Certainly. But but anyway, so they they clashed. But so but then it didn't really stop because again we're talking about where this went after the fact in jail and prosecutors at the trial introduced recorded jail phone calls that proving the mom actively helped Taylor commit fraud after her arrest for the murder.

[00:52:14]So, while awaiting trial in the jail, Taylor racked up thousands of dollars in medical bills because that behavior didn't stop either. She kept demanding to see the doctor. Same old thing. And the state attempted to freeze and garnish her commissary fund to pay it back. We're talking about almost $3,000 here. So to bypass that, Taylor and her mom allegedly came up with this scheme where the mom would secretly deposit cash into the commissary accounts of other inmates and they would buy the stuff and give it to Taylor in exchange for kickbacks.

[00:52:54]>> Okay.

[00:52:55]>> So, >> and that's I mean is is that illegal? I guess I guess I mean it's going >> it's going around the system but >> it's going around the system. I don't know exactly what you know I don't know that they're charges but >> but it's just a way to show like hey this continues with her with >> right and her mother >> backing her up and trying and trying to like yeah let trying to help her do her thing >> right because Taylor probably told her some story about how she's had to go to the doctor and now they're trying to charge her and she doesn't have any money or something. But also, we're going to get into the doctor thing because, you know, she didn't have to go to the doctor. But it seemed like she doesn't she didn't really get as far with the inmates as she did with people on the outside as far as lying and manipulating them. So, one inmate said Taylor strikes her as psychotic and like someone who would stand over the body and say, "Look at what you made me do."

[00:53:58]>> Mhm.

[00:53:59]>> Which has got to be the best character description of this woman ever. I mean, she was so disruptive and difficult that the jail had to change its policies.

[00:54:09]Now, this is a quote from a local news report. Though she has continuously and repeatedly caused chaos and confusion and has disrupted jail operations by fabricating grievances, medical conditions, and issues with other inmates and correctional officers, filing unfounded complaints against jail staff, threatening lawsuits against them over alleged mistreatment and discrimination, comments that prosecutors say could be t making comments that prosecutors say could be taken as threats of physical harm. She makes up medical conditions or dramatically exaggerates a condition so that all unnecessary medical care. And then she uses the time that she was being transported to the medical department to flirt with boyfriends or pass notes because she was getting really popular in jail with the men folk. And when jail staff put a stop to that, they told her, "Oh, you're you have something going on.

[00:55:08]Fine. the doctor's going to come to you to your sale instead of you going to them, which is like a little field trip.

[00:55:15]She threw a fit, they say. And they also say that she insisted on having an oxygen tank in her jail cell, but she didn't use it. And then when they did more testing, they realized she didn't need it at all. And so these are all expenses she's racking up that, you know, she allegedly tried to get around the mom.

[00:55:34]>> What's the benefit of having oxygen in her jail?

[00:55:36]>> Just an attention seeking prop. Oh yeah.

[00:55:39]Yeah.

[00:55:39]>> I mean, no, nothing. Just [clears throat] to bother people, just to like >> Man, they got their hands full with this person.

[00:55:46]And they say that she also got furious when like the typical security stuff were applied to her like everyone else because she didn't want to be handcuffed in the back and she would, you know, get angry if she was to the point where I remembered reading in u some of the research that I think it was the therapist when she came to the office, you know, to have a session and she had to be restrained during those sessions cuz this woman just ripped a baby out of a woman's womb. I don't really want to be alone in a room with her with full access to everything sharp.

[00:56:22]>> So, the woman h she wanted her to be restrained with her hands behind her back. But Taylor didn't want that. And she got so angry. She said that her face just changed. Her eyes just went completely black and she was just staring at her to the point where the therapist was genuinely scared.

[00:56:39]>> Wow. and that she was like I saw from that point on that I would have to be very careful with her because you know she comes off as just sort of a normal Texas girl like she's just out there >> but just bubbly and and all of that >> dark piece of her in there that >> you know when she's pinned up against the wall like that shows >> and that's where we got to the end of the line with Reagan and that and so >> but she also had access to the email kiosk in the the telephone system. And somehow somehow she managed to reactivate her Snapchat account in April of 2022 under the same username that she had used before the murders and her arrest. Can you imagine? What the hell would you think if you were randomly >> in the jail? You can like don't they have safeguards and stuff like that? I mean >> she's out there on social. Can you believe that? What if I mean, oh man, that would just >> you would think that when you get on the internet in jail that there's some limitations, >> right?

[00:57:44]>> That you couldn't just >> I mean, could these but and apparently they were supposed to because that's why it was so shocking that like I don't know how she did it, but she managed to do it. Maybe with help from the outside, maybe. Who knows? But she she also apparently wrote a lot of jail house love letters according to prosecutors.

[00:58:00]And she's repeatedly and continuously maintained multiple romantic relationships with other inmates.

[00:58:06]men and women both within the jail and out locked up at other facilities. And some of these letters apparently were explicit, you know, sex stuff. But apparently um some were also like she was looking she's fishing for a sugar daddy. Others she was claiming she's innocent. She dreams of building a home and family based on God. Like in one she says, "Please, I have said this before.

[00:58:32]I'm so understanding. Just don't lie to me. I would never play someone's emotions. Games are not for me. Like, holy [ __ ] But she is she's also reportedly enlisted the help of her family and friends to contact and communicate with potential romantic interests on the outside.

[00:58:49]>> I mean, what I have to be I can see where the mother we're in a pattern of lifelong support here, but does she seriously have friends on the outside that are helping her? I mean, why would you do that? But maybe you don't see any reason not to help her >> have a boyfriend or >> Yeah. I mean, unless she's making new friends, I would say like all of her old friends are probably not around anymore.

[00:59:15]>> Yeah.

[00:59:15]>> You know, um I I can't imagine anybody on the outside that was a friend of hers uh believes her lies. I I I can't believe that. But I think that in general, you know, like Richard Ramirez had all these girlfriends and things like that. I mean, I I think that people in this position can deceive new people.

[00:59:38]>> Yeah. No, no question that she would have guys reaching out to her because that is what you see all the time.

[00:59:44]>> It happens. And so, she probably does have like a little network of people that she communicates with.

[00:59:50]>> I would I guess.

[00:59:51]>> But also in jail, this is according to court documents in KTLA, she's apparently an avid reader of murder mysteries and her family sends her a lot of them. and they say that she maintains an extensive collection of books in her jail cell. She frequently discusses her books about murder and such with other inmates, medical staff, correctional officers. She keeps books about how to solve murders. She has previously written short stories about murder.

[01:00:20]She's written jail letters offering her services to the FBI to assist them in solving murders. and she reads, you know, just murder, murder, murder. Like >> that's an the little piece in there that's interesting to me is offering her services to the FBI, you know, because there are plenty of serial killers that have, right, they've helped out >> to solve other things >> based on the kind works. They can kind of get into the mind of these other people.

[01:00:50]>> I mean, you know, I think she's crazy, but maybe that's a legitimate thing. Who knows?

[01:00:57]>> I mean, I can see where you're going with that, but in this case, I wonder if that would be helpful at all because she's so pathological.

[01:01:05]>> Yeah. I mean, I would think that she would try to manipulate that. Also, I don't think you could Yeah. I think if you were the FBI, you really couldn't count on her to be uh genuine. She's Well, it's like it's not a trusted source, but because you can see where >> like a Ted Bundy type I don't know why every other serial killer name is literally slipping my mind, but the they are helpful because they're already locked up. They weren't pathological liars necessarily. They're just sick predators. And >> yeah, I feel like yeah, >> they would do it for the fun of it of helping the FBI. But this one, she would do it for the attention and she who knows what she would say. Like you couldn't trust any thing she'd had to say, >> right? Because she'd twist it around and and and land it back on her somehow.

[01:01:53]Yeah.

[01:01:54]>> You know. Yeah.

[01:01:56]>> But she also tells people, "I love to read, but my true joy is writing. I love every part of putting together a story."

[01:02:03]Well, that's true. I mean, >> yeah. I mean, I can imagine if with all of those madeup stories and details, I mean, >> too bad that she >> she could have been like the next Stephen King.

[01:02:16]>> Yeah. It's too bad that you can't It's like what happens in a person's I don't know, genetic makeup or upbringing or god knows what that >> I know. It's like it's just like one chromosome off from being like a genius like >> writer, then you're a brutal killer. But I don't know if this But speaking of like truth and lies, I don't know if this is a rare moment of truth or what, but she told the New Yorker that she'd been in a battle with her mind, refusing to believe that she'd done what she was accused of until she actually saw the graphic photos in the courtroom, which forced her to confront reality. And to that, she said, "Jesus hit me straight on flesh to flesh. He told me to open my eyes and see reality." which >> Okay. So, what what does that I mean >> I mean I don't know what to think of that because I guess on the one hand it's like >> is this is this I think at long last at the end is she trying remorse?

[01:03:15]>> Yes, she's trying remorse because in this New Yorker article, the article was more about how the nuns are on death row trying to help the women because there's only like seven women there but and she's one of them but it's all about her road to redemption. So now she really sees reality. But I get that goes back actually to are you not seeing reality because you're delusional and you really truly believe this is real or is this just all a sick game to you? And I have to say I'm sticking with no this is and this is also what the prosecutor stuck with. Like no, this is an organized thoughtout plan to manipulate people. So you're not you're not seeing reality.

[01:03:55]What you're seeing is the fact that you're not getting out of this one.

[01:03:59]>> Right. Right? And that's why she's trying remorse. It's just the next level of manipulation. You know, I've tried lying. I've tried making up stories.

[01:04:05]I've tried all these things. And now I'm going to, >> you know, try I found God, >> right? Oh, she's definitely found God.

[01:04:15]That's a given. But now on death row, she's stuck in a 6x14 cell alone for 22 hours a day with only a bed, a sink, a toilet, a small window with bars. And she says everyone calls her the baby because she is the youngest woman there.

[01:04:29]And apparently on women on death row, not the men, just the women, they can volunteer for prison jobs including sewing, knitting, crocheting. They can do this specialized braille transcription program.

[01:04:41]>> It converts textbooks for visually impaired students. And if you do these work programs, you can earn extra privileges, which so get like some access to a communal TV outside the cell. I guess they don't have a TV in the cell. I Why did I think they did?

[01:04:57]But >> anyway, you could also get opportunities for increased interaction with other inmates. And she's also allowed to buy snacks, you know, personal items from the commissary. She can borrow books through the prison library system.

[01:05:10]And she actually said the death row is like the Hilton compared to the county jail where she was like, "You [ __ ] after everything you did to disrupt that place, how dare you badmouth us." But yeah, so that's where she's at now. I mean, she's got, you know, plenty of appeals >> left, like, you know, 10 years of appeals left. Her her most recent appeals in 25 and 26.

[01:05:40]>> Those are based on um did the trial evidence was the trial like did they have the right I >> did did did they go through the proper channels? Was it executed properly?

[01:05:54]>> Yes. And they both of those her appeals were struck down. Like the Supreme Court didn't even they're like, "We're not going to listen to this crap." And then the other the state of Texas said, "Yep, it's all good to go. You're going to death row." So she >> then I think the rest of the appeals are based on procedural. That's when you get into and then of course I guess if there's new evidence that could be a thing, but because you hear about people getting off death row, so God knows. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of this woman, but one last thing before I stop like going on and on about this, but I swear to God, how did Netflix do it in just two hours? I mean, it's so much stuff.

[01:06:31]>> [clears throat] >> So, speaking of the Netflix thing though, Reagan's family says they did that Netflix documentary in hopes of getting laws changed because they want doctors to be able to warn others because so many people knew that she had the hyctomy and they couldn't say the doctors couldn't say anything specific about it because of privacy laws. But I can totally see where they're coming from. And maybe I don't really understand completely what they're hoping to change, but I feel like in this specific case, I mean, who would have thought that the doctors you saw in the documentary, they thought, well, she's going to have to get a baby from somewhere. So, they warned the hospitals. It's called that pink alert, which is very >> like that was great that they did that.

[01:07:18]Well, they thought she was going to kidnap a newborn. I don't know that >> I don't think anybody had it on their radar. What actually happened?

[01:07:25]>> No, I don't think any I wonder if this could have been stopped short of actually having her committed like involuntarily committed, >> which that would have been an idea because other than that, >> I think I think if I think if if they outed her on this, I think it would have pushed her to resolve it some way. Maybe the timing wouldn't have worked out to do what she did, but it may have manifested in another thing like a kidnapping or something. I think she was always, no matter I I I just kind of feel like the more that people said, "Hey, you're full of shit." The more she was going to go, I'm the more I'm going to prove you wrong, >> you know? And so I think it would have manifested somehow, maybe not as tragically.

[01:08:08]>> Oh, I agree. it would have manifested somehow. But in a kidnapping, and some people kind of alluded to this, at least in my opinion, it sounds like they were alluding to the fact where if she had kidnapped a child, they could have dealt with that because at that point, they could have stepped in and said, "Where'd this baby come from? We know it's not yours. We need to deal with this right now." But that is obviously very different than two brutal murders.

[01:08:30]>> And then, you know, and then and then she had the the off-ramp, if you will, of of the miscarriage. I mean, she could have, you know, people everybody was kind of thinking, "Oh, well, she's she's we'll be hearing about a miscarriage here pretty soon, you know, >> but I guess it's just she knew because if you remember, she had already done the fake pregnancy miscarry thing with Wade. She did that just weeks after they met. She told them she told him that she was pregnant with twins >> and that and then she miscarried those twins. And so she kind of already done that and he was really pulling away from her and she just thought, "Well, I can't do that again. That's not a permanent solution type of thing. Like I'm actually gonna have to get a baby in here." And then but yeah, like just kidnap a baby. But >> none of it's good.

[01:09:19]>> I know. It's weird to say. It would have been better if she'd kidnapped a baby because they could have dealt with that.

[01:09:24]>> They could have caught her and then got it back and it could have all resolved without anybody getting killed.

[01:09:28]>> Yeah. I mean, perhaps.

[01:09:31]>> So, >> wow. That's a big one.

[01:09:34]>> It's such a crazy case. I swear it's so sick. And then it really makes me look at pregnant women and I'm just like, you be careful. You don't trust anybody. You don't go to Facebook Marketplace and try to pick up baby stuff. Don't do it.

[01:09:48]Because you hear about stuff like that.

[01:09:50]>> You haven't. You've heard like some other pregnant woman, she got her baby.

[01:09:53]>> Yeah. First time it's happened, right? I mean, >> no, it's very, very rare, >> right? But Um, but yeah. Oh, it's horrible. Anyway, thank you so much for listening and being here. I mean, I don't know where I would I don't know who I would talk to if you weren't here [laughter] to talk about this stuff with.

[01:10:11]>> He's tired of talking to me about it, I think.

[01:10:12]>> Yeah, he [laughter] doesn't he's not as >> the same thing.

[01:10:16]>> Yeah. Anyway, all right. So, thank you so much. We will see you again for the next one. Be sure to let everybody know uh your friends, family if they want to get in on this member stuff. Obviously, this is a very different type of thing than what we do in our recap. So, I hope you're you're loving it as much as we're loving having you here. We'll see you soon.