XI WARNS TRUMP ON TAIWAN AS JOE ROGAN SOUNDS OFF ON CONSPIRACIES| CNN PANEL

追加: 2026-05-16

[00:00:01][music] >> Tonight, the president gets a red line warning from China as Donald Trump's predecessor defends the deal made to avoid a war with Iran. There's no dispute that it worked. Plus, many of the talking heads who entertained conspiracies are shocked when Americans believe them.

[00:00:20]That's what That's the problem. Rotten their brains out from inside their heads. Also, the man leading the Justice Department was told to recuse himself from Trump cases. But, is he?

[00:00:31]And On days like today, I I sometimes feel like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone.

[00:00:35]In the 2028 watch between J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, one's overseas while the other reacts to Trump crowdsourcing their chances. I just don't think it sounds like the president of the United States to have a televised competition for who would succeed him as his apprentice.

[00:00:53]Live at the table, Charles Blow, Joe Borelli, John Avlon, Emily Austen, Bobby Ghosh, and Stacy Schneider. Americans with different perspectives aren't talking to each other, but here they do.

[00:01:20]Good evening. I'm Abby Phillip in New York. We are moments away from the final talks in this crucial summit between President Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping. The tone so far has been broadly positive between the two superpowers, but Xi drew a red line with his blunt warning to the United States, "Don't mess with China when it comes to Taiwan." According to a readout of the meeting shared by Chinese state media, Xi said, "If the issue is mishandled, it could create a highly dangerous situation for the entire China-US relationship." China's ruling Communist Party claims that Taiwan is its own sovereign territory despite having never controlled the self-governing democracy of 23 million. Washington has remained intentionally ambiguous on whether it would interfere militarily in the event of a Chinese attack. And US officials say its policy is still unchanged. But now, hanging over this whole summit, is of course the war in Iran. And when it comes to that conflict, President Trump says the G wants to help.

[00:02:24]President Xi would like to see a deal made. He would He would like to see a deal made.

[00:02:30]And uh he did offer. He said, "If I can be of any help at all, I would like to be of help."

[00:02:35]>> He did say that.

[00:02:36]>> Yeah, he did say that.

[00:02:39]And today, as Trump began his day in Beijing, he posted on social media to explain Xi's suggestion that the US was a nation in decline, writing, "When President Xi very eloquent elegantly referred to the United States as perhaps being a declining nation, he was referring to the tremendous damage we suffered during the four years of sleepy Joe Biden and the Biden administration.

[00:03:03]And on that score, he was 100% correct."

[00:03:07]Um uh Bobby, what do you make of President Trump bending over backwards to explain away Xi's trashing of the United States? And also um uh to suggest that they're they are the benevolent force here in this this relationship with Iran. They want to help. They'll do anything to help us, but they haven't.

[00:03:29]Well, if Xi Jinping wanted to help, he would have said, "Here's what I can do to help, and here's what I'm going to do."

[00:03:34]When he says, "I'd like to do I'll do whatever I can to help," that is diplomatic code for saying, "I'm not going to get involved in any of this.

[00:03:42]This is your mess. You fix it." Um there's a very interesting language being used by Xi Jinping. And since he does not speak in the way that Donald Trump does, uh it it takes a little more more careful analysis. He said a couple of things around that Taiwan quote that that the section that you quoted earlier in the at the top which were very interesting. First, he said that the the Taiwan was the most important issue in relations between the two countries.

[00:04:08]>> Yeah. That's historically not been true.

[00:04:09]The most important issue between in relations between these two countries is trade. Mhm. Has always been forever and ever. Taiwan is an important issue, but he's he's setting down a new marker here.

[00:04:19]He's saying that's the most important issue. And then he uses this very important language. He says, "If this issue is mishandled, it could lead to clashes and conflict." I want to Yeah.

[00:04:31]>> Xi Jinping, that is very, very tough language. He's never going to say it could lead to war, but that's as close as the president of China is ever going to come to saying that. That's very, very tough language. And he doesn't use this language with previous presidents.

[00:04:44]He doesn't use this language with Trump before.

[00:04:46]>> the why? What Why right now?

[00:04:48]>> weakness here. He's He's sensing that Trump is weak. He knows Trump has come to Beijing with his hat in his hand. He needs Xi Jinping for all kinds of reasons, economic reasons and geopolitical ones. He is now establishing that I'm the big dog in this room, and I'm putting down these markers. I am setting In 2022, let me just let I mean when Xi pulled Biden when President Premier Xi pulled Biden aside at the APEC summit in San Francisco and told President Biden bluntly, "I'm going to take over Taiwan, preferably peacefully or if not militarily."

[00:05:22]How is he not being the big dog then?

[00:05:24]And what did Joe Biden do to counter that? In fact, I read the I read the readouts I read the readouts of what Biden did afterwards, and he said, "Well, we hope there's peace."

[00:05:31]>> There's a huge difference. If you spend a If you spend a career of paying close attention to diplomacy, it There's a huge difference between taking somebody out on a corner and having a private conversation and and and doing this at home to your invited guest. If you If you If you pay attention to Chinese culture, this is this matters when you have a guest in your home.

[00:05:53]And it's the president of the United States. There's some language you use and there's some language you don't use.

[00:05:57]Taiwan has been a matter of friction between China and the United States forever and ever. But there's a reason why the And this Chinese president has been there a long time. He's He's run through several American presidents.

[00:06:08]There's a reason why he doesn't do this in the past and he's doing it now.

[00:06:12]>> of all, there Trump went on his turf, in his country, and sat at his place with the very warm greeting, I might add. And I really didn't expect things to go this way, but I believe that she is just using the theatrics to make him look good in front of the Chinese media. But let's be real, if there's a big dog at any table, it's President Donald Trump.

[00:06:31]And No, [laughter] no, let's be honest with ourselves. You might not like him, but you have to agree he is crazy and nobody wants to mess with him. And in a world full of crazies, in a world full of crazies, you might just have to out No, of course. First of all, our military capabilities has just been proven with Iran. We've interjected, arguably, in too many wars.

[00:06:49]And if there's one person who really is not in a place to be making demands, it's President Xi. So, that's why I just believe it's all words. He's not going to do anything. I agree with the US's stance on the ambiguity when it comes to Taiwan. I also feel that they're choosing that way because I don't believe they actually think Xi will do anything. So, why create unnecessary tension for Donald Trump's behavior has endangered Taiwan. Donald Trump has bombed 10 countries in 1 year.

[00:07:15]Eight of those 10 have fewer than 100 million population.

[00:07:20]Seven of that eight, less than 50%. He's picking on small players. What does that message send to other big, powerful countries about other countries that they may want to invade? What does it What does it say to Russia about Ukraine?

[00:07:36]He He Well, I'm just saying. What What? When you When you start the When you start that war, when you start the war and then you stop it, they call that call that they call that a call that a problem.

[00:07:48]Wait wait wait, excuse me. None of these wars started under Donald Trump.

[00:07:51]>> I'm not the the 10 the 10 the 10 bombings started UNDER DONALD TRUMP.

[00:07:58]I'LL TAKE A I'LL TAKE A SECOND. NO, YOU DON'T KNOW the answer to that question.

[00:08:00]That's what the problem is. Okay, let me just explain. So a couple things, Joe.

[00:08:05]You've forgotten that Biden actually was routinely criticized for taking too tough a line on China and Taiwan. So the exact opposite of what you're saying.

[00:08:11]>> after he was told that?

[00:08:12]>> Bingo.

[00:08:13]Oh my god, you're totally missing the point. The point is that Donald Trump has held me He said don't He said don't Biden You can read out what he said after he was told I'm going to take over Taiwan.

[00:08:23]Google it at home. You're just wrong about it.

[00:08:26]Okay, then you should read a little deeper. Second thing, Trump Trump has done a consistent yellow light on Taiwan since he flip-flopped on TikTok after getting a huge campaign donation to the 2024 campaign which he believes helped him win election. Third, Xi Xi is bringing them into sort of a strategic patience day taunt mindset using rare earths as a way to sort of mollify the US. That is not a position of strength.

[00:08:48]He's got time on his side because he's a dictator for life and Donald Trump has hurt America's strength in the region by alienating our allies and driving a lot OF ALLIES BUT BUT ALSO when you say when you say that Donald Trump is always the big dog in the room, right? So the Chinese government has basically said that the Iran war is an illegal war. Xi himself has said that you know, it is it violates the rule of law and it is it is probably it is probably Can you let me finish or do you have a problem with like talking to other people talking? Can you please let me finish?

[00:09:24]He's also said that it it risks making this the international order into a law rule of rule of the jungle. That was his That was his phrase.

[00:09:33]The Pope didn't say anything like that, right? But he had all the smoke for the Pope. But he has none for Xi Jinping.

[00:09:38]He's still trying to make him his friend. He is still saying things about the United States being in decline. He refuses to say anything negative about Xi. Because because he's a bully. He knows the Pope can't do any doesn't doesn't want to do anything he doesn't have anything to offer him. But he wants he can bully the Pope but he can't bully Xi. And so he has nothing >> should? No, but you think he's the big dog in the room? Well, if she is saying there's a decline in Iran, it is most certainly not the United States. Well, Emily, well, Emily, let me ask you to respond to what he's what he's saying, which is fundamentally President Trump doesn't seem to be willing to stand up to Xi Jinping in terms of China's relationship with Iran, in terms of how he's described the United States' military actions with Iran. Why not? Well, China today, if I'm not mistaken, I saw a big headline on CNN that they said she is committed to not send any military weapons to Iran, which is a big step. I mean, we're talking the bar is pretty low with the countries we're discussing.

[00:10:39]Well, okay. Well, to that let me just play this because Trump was just talking about this in his interview with Sean Hannity tonight. Let me just play that clip.

[00:10:52]We have it. Uh he said he's not going to give military equipment. That's a big statement. He said that today. That's a big statement.

[00:10:59]Said that strongly.

[00:11:00]But at the same time he said, you know, they buy a lot of their oil there and they'd like to keep doing that.

[00:11:07]That aired at 9 >> p.m. last night. 24 hours have passed and the Chinese have not substantially walked it back. And I think it just part of me just thinks it must be so exhausting to just constantly be negative Nancy when the bulk of this this summit over the past I guess 48 hours now has been positive. We have agreements on soybeans, on beef, on Boeing. Boeing's going to potentially get 200 planes purchased. That's about a third of the planes that that they make in a year. These are positive developments, and we should be rooting for the fact that the president got some commitment on Iran.

[00:11:38]Yes, they need oil. I know that part, right? That's all right.

[00:11:42]Positives are there. Uh nobody's arguing that. We're talking about this kind of diplomatic international policies around use of force, and that is not resolved. And I don't trust what First of all, I don't trust anything Donald Trump says.

[00:11:55]Definitely don't trust until this is confirmed.

[00:11:58]>> walked it back. Well, >> [laughter] >> I want to wait until it's confirmed.

[00:12:02]Literally what I wrote about today, uh I'm sorry to uh self-publicize on my sub stack. That's fine. Which is that the Chinese do not sell military equipment to to the to the to Iran. That's not the problem.

[00:12:12]The Chinese are never going to sell tanks and planes and bombs directly to Iran. He was not promising He's promising something that is already true.

[00:12:21]What they sell is they sell intermediate parts and systems that can be used and and are used that the They sell chemicals that with a little bit of tweaking can be used for rocket fuel.

[00:12:31]They send They sell uh They sell satellite imagery which can be used for targeting. He's not committing not to do that. All that's still remains on the table. And that oil he buys, that's the money that Iran uses The Iranian regime uses to buy >> summit was a net negative for the world?

[00:12:47]Do you think this is a net negative for the world, people?

[00:12:49]>> Absolutely it's a net Whenever America looks weak on the world When America looks everything's a nightmare. Everything's a problem. Joe How is the first president in a decade to even go to Beijing? So so look, I mean, I think that the question is what really are we going to get out of this, okay? We're not quite there yet. We don't really know what the deliverables are. But we do know, and I think based on as Bobby pointed out, we know exactly what China wants. And what they want is for us to change our position on Taiwan. They want more access to our semiconductor chips. And according to Marco Rubio uh tonight, uh he was say he told NBC, "The president didn't ask Xi Jinping for anything. We are not asking for China's help. So, what are we going to get in exchange for it? Any concessions that we make?"

[00:13:41]>> So, clearly the gains are economic and that's an under a rubric of stability on China's terms. Here's Here's the larger danger. If you look at the threat matrix we're facing today, it's AI, China, and polarization. And when China talks about America being a nation in decline, it's referring to our polarization at home and our isolation from allies abroad.

[00:14:02]The fact that the trade the Trump administration seems to be increasing access to chips, American-made chips for Chinese AI, is a very big and dangerous deal down the road. It may be short-term benefit for our economy, long-term bad for national security. And he's already done some of that. He's already made some deals with with US companies to allow them to to basically get carve-outs. I just feel like that China isn't really like you were quoting earlier like she said that Trump is violating law. She said what is she doing? Is he taking the higher ground here? Is he the good guy in the room? Is he the litmus test? Of course not. I mean I think that's I think that's actually him as if that's like a Well, Emily, I think that's actually point. His point is that she that you're exactly right that [laughter] that he's that they're not necessarily acting in good faith when it comes to Iran.

[00:14:52]The question The question for you that I asked you and that he asked you was why won't the president say anything about that? Here's my my takeaway from this whole thing.

[00:15:02]I obviously am no fan of Xi Jinping.

[00:15:04]Needless to say that. I would still rather my president have more friends than enemies. That includes Xi, that includes >> news for you.

[00:15:12]I know. Listen, I'm not talking about our allies that don't do anything when we need them. That's not who I'm referring to because then what's the point of having an ally if it's just for I don't know NATO. Yeah, I know.

[00:15:23]The friendship is to make Would you rather Trump and Xi start beefing with each other? Is that an ideal situation?

[00:15:37]That's what I feel. He's decided that it's just easier to beef with the Pope than it is All right. Well, we can't we are not going to let that tonight. Next for us, Joe Rogan is baffled that many Americans think that the assassination attempts against President Trump were staged, but should the right be surprised after years of peddling conspiracies? [music] Plus, exclusive CNN reporting tonight, Trump's personal lawyer turned acting [music] attorney general was told last year to recuse himself from matters involving the president, [music] but is he doing that? We'll be right back.

[00:16:16]Tonight, Joe Rogan is looking for someone to blame for the growing number of Americans who believe that the three assassination attempts against Donald Trump's life were a hoax. Calling out an alarming trend of conspiracy theories, Rogan had one boogeyman in mind.

[00:16:33]Anybody that thinks that that's staged is out of their mind. Or or the guy that the Correspondents Dinner who rushed in, yeah, they think that's fake. It's like, hold on. So, you think this guy who's a teacher, educated, clearly kind of has it together threw away his life. This is TikTok.

[00:16:50]That's the That's the problem. That's the problem. Rotting their brains out from inside their heads.

[00:16:54]>> [laughter] >> I know.

[00:16:55]It's not good, dude.

[00:16:59]Uh something tells me that the conspiracy theory problem that we've been having predated TikTok by quite a lot, actually.

[00:17:05]>> It It It did. I mean, I wrote a book called Wingnuts during the Obama administration that detailed some of the growth of conspiracy theories both about 9/11, uh about whether you remember the whole the President Obama was secretly a, you know, Muslim Manchurian candidate. That had like 40% belief.

[00:17:21]That he was born in Kenya.

[00:17:22]>> Kenya. Now, all that stuff. That Donald Trump All that Donald Trump All that Donald Trump colluded with Russians to to overtake the 2016 election. That was totally >> intelligence report which you covered in your layer. But um but but what the Tik Tok point is relevant only because it is sort of a a foreign disinformation foreign owned disinformation vehicle that spread a lot of conspiracy theories. But the problem is deeper and it's been going on for decades and it's on the hyper partisan uh side. So, I like seeing Joe Rogan call it out, but it it ain't just Tik Tok. Tik Tok's not helping.

[00:17:53]>> yeah, I I just want to add to the point of Tik Tok. I think it goes beyond foreign ownership. I actually think America buying it would not even solve the problem. I think it's more of an algorithm issue and by the way, I think Meta, X, uh Tik Tok, they're all being investigated now for pushing deliberate personal obsession, addiction. All these things are being looked into now. Which is why it's not Tik Tok is like a boogeyman and it's a situation.

[00:18:11]>> Tik Tok. I think it's general algorithms. They show you what they know you want to see. They bring you down the echo chamber. There's no accountability in misin- misinformation. X has community notes. We know it takes way too long. Tik Tok doesn't even have that. But that's that's that's the technology side, but there's also the president himself who is consistently pushing conspiracy theories like right now. Like constantly pushing >> see them being used against So, it's hard to have any sympathy for people pushing conspiracy conspiracy theories.

[00:18:40]>> worked with the Russians to steal the election in 2016? I think that the Russians if you read read the report, the Russians were actively engaged >> effort. It was a bipartisan effort. with that election. That's just the what the You still Okay, so you just you still believe it. Look, I think Americans You don't believe what the the intelligence said? No, I don't believe that that Donald Trump colluded with the Russians to steal the >> That's not what I said.

[00:19:01]>> [laughter] >> That's not what I said. So, that was the topic that was the question that I asked. That was the topic. I said that the Russian that the report >> line was that. The report clearly said Four years. Did you impeach him? Did you impeach him? Did you impeach him?

[00:19:11]Everything.

[00:19:12]said that the Russians were interested and active.

[00:19:15]>> Okay. Just going forward. So, wait a minute. Don't don't [laughter] don't question. Is that true or not true? I need to understand where you coming from.

[00:19:21]>> There is no truth that Donald Trump or his campaign >> telling a different thing, but you won't you won't answer the question that I'm asking, which is that the Russians were active and interested.

[00:19:30]>> Yeah. There's no I don't I don't doubt for a minute I don't understand what these all these words are. Is that yes or no? The whole point of the investigation The whole point of the investigation was whether Donald Trump did it. So, YOU DON'T HAVE A YES or no in that box. You're changing the Democratic charge from 2016. The Democratic accusation was that Donald Trump and his campaign The word yes or no doesn't exist for you. Okay, I got it. The whole point of the investigation was not whether Donald Trump did it. It was whether or not Russia tried to interfere in the 20 Collusion thing. Hold on. Hold on. It's literally called collusion. Hold on a second. It was about whether Russia was trying to interfere in the 2016 election. Now, Donald Trump believed that he was at the center of it, which is why he tried to fire the special counsel. And that's when he became embroiled in the whole thing. So, let's not rewrite history about how this really started and about the bipartisan report that Trump's now Secretary of State is a co-author of that is all about this. Um but you know, to Charles's point, the President of the United States every single night is sending out on Truth Social um frankly hundreds of conspiracy theories over the course of the last several months. And he started his career with a huge conspiracy theory, which is that the President of the United States, Barack Obama, was a Muslim who was born in Kenya. So, it is as I was saying, it's not a TikTok thing. It's also not even a Democrats believe Trump assassinate assassination things weren't true. Conspiracy theorism has been growing for a long time and Trump is at the center of it. Look, the the birth certificate thing obviously proven wrong, right?

[00:21:10]Complete farce.

[00:21:12]But there is like there has been times over the course of American history and I can think of a couple, MK Ultra, the idea that we were giving LSD to people, the Gulf of Tonkin resolution, um the the the the FBI was, you know, shadowing Martin Luther King. People were denying these things at the time and they were dismissed as conspiracy theories and proven true. Then you go forward >> Aliens, UFOs.

[00:21:32]>> You go forward. Aliens, now we're talking about it as a regular occurrence, right? You you can go through the COVID where I think a lot of Americans lost trust in the public.

[00:21:39]>> I'm talking about things that were dismissed as conspiracy theories. During COVID, the government used the science to justify a lot of things that didn't pan out to be true. The vaccine effectiveness, the mask effectiveness, the idea we should be closing schools. I think a lot of Americans lost trust in the institutions of government and Joe Rogan and Joe Rogan often times can can introduce these topics in a way I think Americans have a right to question.

[00:22:02]>> look, I think let me just actually play this because Joe Rogan I think is is not the best person necessarily to be complaining about conspiracy theories.

[00:22:12]Tim Burchett, who I had on the podcast, congressman, Yeah. he thinks that guy was like some sort of an MK Ultra type deal. And he says he thinks they still do that. For sure they're still doing that and that could have been Thomas Crooks, too. The guy who tried to shoot Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania.

[00:22:28]>> Yep. That one was weird as That one's so weird because that guy's house was professionally scrubbed. He didn't even have silverware there. He had no online activity. He had no like social media.

[00:22:40]>> Black Rock ties.

[00:22:41]>> Have you heard anything about him?

[00:22:43]>> Nope. Gone. How weird is that, dude?

[00:22:46]Vanished like Keyser Söze.

[00:22:47]>> Charlie Kirk guy? What about the guy who killed Charlie?

[00:22:49]>> Right. We haven't heard one interview with him.

[00:22:51]>> not weird, dude?

[00:22:52]>> super weird.

[00:22:54]I I literally watched listen to this episode today of Joe Rogan with Tim Burchett. The whole subject matter that they spoke about was dismissing the conspiracy theory. They were talking about some of the inconsistencies that should be investigated as why there was a breakdown of security of the By the way, honestly He takes that conversation and then he turns it around and says that that the White House Correspondents Dinner shooter, that Tim Crooks, the the Butler, Pennsylvania shooter, that he basically suggested there are conspiracies around those things, too. And maybe there are. And look, I mean there are definitely questions that need to be answered about all of these events. But the idea that you just posit a conspiracy as an answer without evidence is is the definition of a conspiracy theory. I I agree. This is the sort of thing that used to be in the National Enquirer. And it used to be in the fringe of the public discourse. And now it's in the mainstream thanks to people like Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan on the record, and this is all on tape, uh is available for anybody who looks, says things like the whatever happened that day in in Dallas in 1963, the stuff they're telling you is not it. So, if he's if he's in the business of purveying conspiracy theories about President presidential assassinations, for which, you know, there's an enormous body of No one who listened to the episode No one is going to say he literally said this is not true.

[00:24:12]I think we're guilty of ignoring ignoring the obvious here.

[00:24:16]The Wall Street Journal, the notoriously liberal Wall Street Journal put out a very thorough investigation. That was a joke, obviously. Sorry. It's a joke.

[00:24:25]But looking at at Trump's habit of sort of late night tweet storms, 55, 103. The president is disseminating The President of the United States, this isn't coming from the National Enquirer, it's coming from the White House. And it's coming in the middle of the night. And if you had any friend who was sending out 55 conspiracy theory tweets at night, you'd think maybe there's something wrong with that cat. And instead it's the President of the United States, which isn't just a force for spreading disinformation, it also makes him easy to delude and a dissem- not only to the disseminator, but someone who could be manipulated by conspiracy theories. And this is incredibly not just weird and odd, but unstable and unhinged. And I would just like more Republicans to acknowledge that if a Democratic president were doing this, they'd be saying, "Hey, this ain't okay."

[00:25:08]>> might be even worse than what you're describing because some of the reporting is that there's actually a a structure inside the White House to provide him with these unhinged posts.

[00:25:19]People are finding things that they think he might like, handing them to him, and he okays them, and then they tweet it on his behalf. Some of them he does himself, but many of them are brought to him. He approves it and then puts it out. So, it's actually kind of layers worse than just he's on his own.

[00:25:34]The Wall Street Journal reported today Madeleine Harp, Trump's executive assistant, plays an integral role in his Truth Social activity. She brings the president stacks of printed out draft social media posts for his approval.

[00:25:46]It's a stretch to say she's feeding him stuff.

[00:25:48]>> there's a lot more in the story that you can read.

[00:25:50]>> she's feeding him stuff or he's doing it himself. I wish we would know who knows best. There's a lot that he's posting that is coming from inside the house.

[00:25:58]>> is that there's a second there's a serious problem, which is that if there's there's so much of this out there that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

[00:26:10]It doesn't matter. At some level, it doesn't matter on which side. There's so much of this is out there that when real things happen and when real news needs real attention from Americans, they no longer believe it. And that's the real danger to the republic.

[00:26:24]>> That is the big risk that we face.

[00:26:25]Coming up next for us, a CNN exclusive report on the president's former personal attorney, who's [music] now the acting attorney general, Todd Blanche.

[00:26:33]He was told last year to recuse himself from DOJ matters involving the president. [music] But has he been doing that? Another special guest is going to be with us at the table.

[00:26:47]We have exclusive new CNN reporting about the man who's now in charge of the Justice Department, Todd Blanche.

[00:26:53]Sources tell us that just before becoming Deputy Attorney General last year, the DOJ's top ethics lawyer warned Blanche to recuse himself from the cases involving President Trump. Before joining the DOJ, Blanche had represented Trump in criminal cases tied to the president's handling of classified documents and the 2020 election. In a statement, the DOJ said that Blanche is recused from some ongoing investigations, but it did not specify which ones. And it adds that Blanche would hypothetically recuse himself when a case involves Trump. Stacey Schneider joins us at the table.

[00:27:29]Stacey, this is actually interesting because I, you know, there are a lot of cases, frankly, that involve Trump. Some of them are cases, some of them, for example, the a potential settlement with the IRS over his lawsuit that it will have to be decided at the DOJ. And then there are also a lot of cases where Trump has explicitly asked for his enemies to be prosecuted by the DOJ, and they have been.

[00:27:52]Yeah, it's the most unusual situation for an acting attorney general in history who is with the private counsel to somebody before right before they were president, and Donald Trump was involved in all these lawsuits and prosecutions, and Todd Blanche represented him in his New York criminal trial. And what's interesting is when Todd Blanche first got into his position as Deputy Attorney General with Pam Bondi there in March of 2025, he actually got a PowerPoint presentation to him on his ethical obligations because of this unusual situation of him taking this job. But the interesting thing is, he's blasting back that this is even being reported about, and he actually addressed CNN on Twitter directly saying, "Dear CNN, I am fully compliant with the DOJ ethical obligations. They are black and white."

[00:28:41]>> But shouldn't he say which cases he's recused from?

[00:28:44]He's not He's not willing to do that right now, and I don't see what the secret is to the public. People should know what where he found himself having a conflict of interest, and the fact that he if he took himself off of something, I think that would give everyone peace of mind knowing that some of the things he's done in office already are not exactly on the black and white spectrum. So, I mean, I I can even bring it up.

[00:29:10]>> which cases, but where's the bar? Like, what is the thing that trips the these cases over into ones that would require recusal, and which ones not? Because, like you said, so many of them touch Trump. Maybe they're maybe they're not all requiring recr- recusal, but something trips the the wire. We need to know what the wire is. And there could be so many different instances. Is Trump a witness in something? Is Trump have an interest in something? But, you know, this is the job of any attorney who's been a defense attorney and then goes to the prosecution side or vice versa. You have an ethical obligation to recuse yourself. You don't need a lecture or PowerPoint from, you know, ethics experts on that, and that should be done all the time. And I He's not the only one. I mean, there's also Joe di Genova, a former Trump another former Trump lawyer who was tapped to run this 2017 Russia election interference probe.

[00:30:06]Di Genova joined the Justice Department in the Southern District of Florida, and a Justice Department official confirms that he will work on an investigation into CIA Director John Brennan. That investigation into Brennan focuses on one of the president's longest-standing grievances, the 2017 intelligence assessment that found that Russia interfered in the 2016 presidential election to help him.

[00:30:29]Why wouldn't di Genova be subject to some kind of ethics, you know, cordon that basically says you can't be involved in something that is something that you were a party to as a private attorney.

[00:30:45]>> Look, I I I think Stacy brought up a very good point that this is a very unique situation because the president has been involved in so many lawsuits and he made a decision which is within his jurisdiction to choose a private attorney that represented him to be at the time the acting acting attorney general and then the sorry, the deputy attorney general and now the acting attorney general. That creates obviously instances where there could be conflict of interest. This is the system I think working properly. If you get a briefing saying you have to recuse yourself from cases where you've accepted compensation from a previous client, that's not out of the normal. That's that's pretty standard conflict of interest.

[00:31:20]>> what I'm saying. That's pretty standard.

[00:31:22]Yes. Nothing about this is normal. When you join when you join government service When you join when you join government service, you get different types of ethical and conflict of interest training. You get the PowerPoint. Maybe it wasn't the same PowerPoint as the deputy attorney general, but you are expected not to not to now do government service based on people who previously previously compensation.

[00:31:40]>> there's nothing normal about this. He creates the quandary on his own. He is the person who appointed these people.

[00:31:47]>> he can pick whoever he wants. But but but you create the quandary because these are people who represented him going into situations I guess one of the biggest problems with this is that we don't actually know which with this is that we don't actually know which cases he's recused from and which he's not.

[00:32:01]>> That's the issue. They want us to take his word for it in terms of he's compliant maybe. I'm also curious about a lot of the other people. Um when Emmet Bowen was in the administration, was he recused as well? Joe Joe di Genova, is he recused from things that touch on the president? I think those are those are legitimate questions.

[00:32:19]>> I I think first of all, I think your question is good. Like what is the wire?

[00:32:22]I actually agree with you. And then Joe, listen, like I don't love this either. I think the optics are bad. I don't think I I think it's a bit premature to be outraged about it. I think it's premature to start assuming he's going to abuse this power. I actually think Todd's professional. and if I'm being honest, I'm a lot more content with seeing Todd there than Pam Bondi because Todd is a lot more professional.

[00:32:43]>> But this one let me let I have a lot of have a last word. Yeah. Yeah, look, the problem is that none of this is normal because Donald Trump is on record demanding prosecutions of his political enemies. That Reuters has a list of 475 individuals, institutions, and organizations who were being targeted because they are perceived as being enemies of the president and because the acting attorney general wants to be the permanent attorney general and he's mindful of Jeff Sessions getting in trouble with his audience of one when he recused himself because of conflicts.

[00:33:09]So, that's where the opaqueness comes in and that's a problem with transparency and honesty but also the weaponization of the DOJ against the president's enemies at the president's request. None of this is normal.

[00:33:21]>> Well, they did that 91 times to Donald Trump but we can end it there if you'd like.

[00:33:25]>> you know, you said, "Oh, he's he's a great guy and we should relax." The problem is and he might be. He has a good reputation before he joined the administration in New York but he is the one who went down to Ghislaine Maxwell, threw her softball questions as the as the deputy attorney general and then as a an apparent reward for her answering those questions favorably as to Donald Trump was then transferred to a minimum security prison while she is a convicted sex trafficker serving 20 years in jail.

[00:33:55]And I can tell you that no attorney general or assistant attorney general at that level does ground level investigations in a prison of someone who's already been convicted. That was unusual and it leaves reason for suspicion about some of his behaviors.

[00:34:09]All right, next for us. It sure sounds like Donald Trump is dreaming up a shadow race between two people who could succeed him. We'll discuss that next.

[00:34:23]Who's it going to be? Is it going to be JD? Is it going to be somebody else? I don't know.

[00:34:28]Who does anybody have Okay, let's go.

[00:34:30]You ready?

[00:34:31]Who likes J.D. Vance?

[00:34:34]>> [cheering] [applause] >> Who likes Marco Rubio?

[00:34:41]All right.

[00:34:43]Sounds like a good ticket.

[00:34:46]Tonight in the succession sweepstakes between J.D. Vance and Marco Rubio, Rubio is in China while Vance is back home left on the sidelines.

[00:34:56]You may know that because of Secret Service protocols that I don't travel outside of the country with the President of the United States. So, on days today, I I sometimes feel like Macaulay Culkin in Home Alone. I walk in the White House and it's very quiet and no one's there and I it takes me a second to realize exactly what's going on.

[00:35:13]Earlier this week, Vance was asked by CNN to respond to Trump fueling that speculation about his own future.

[00:35:21]Do you think it's it's a little bit of toying with you both over your succession?

[00:35:26]Why do you think he brings that up? Just number one.

[00:35:29]Well, I just don't think it sounds like the President of the United States to have a televised competition for who would succeed him as his apprentice. I just think that's not at all what you would expect the President to do. I think it's natural for him to, you know, joke around with us a little bit to play around with the idea.

[00:35:47]And that's got to be tough.

[00:35:49]>> [laughter] >> Tracey, you're a form former apprentice contestant yourself.

[00:35:53]>> Yeah, so 20 years ago, yes. Really? 20 years >> [laughter] >> ago. And I have to tell you when I saw that, I burst out laughing because he did that on the show all the time. So, he would take two candidates, usually men, and they he would put their attributes out in front of everybody and their flaws and he kind of toy like which one, which one and you never knew who he favored until he fired that person. Then you knew who was the the lead candidate, but it was just like the good old days.

[00:36:23]But it is also like, I I I don't know. I think there is a lot of speculation in this moment because you know, Rubio is having this opportunity to see magnanimous on the world stage, to look like a statesman, and Vance is kind of doing small ball stuff back home. And it's it the optics are not not so great. Yeah, I mean, clearly Vance doesn't care, but that he's very nonchalant in general, and I don't know if I necessarily love that. I just know I'm really happy about Vance or Rubio. Personally, I really think Rubio is showing under the Trump administration exactly what he's capable of doing. The reasons I like Rubio, I'm not dismissing Vance.

[00:36:58]I'll be very happy if Vance is the president. Honestly, I really like that Rubio is a Latino. I like that his kids are older than Vance's. Vance repeatedly says on podcasts, uh family time I'm looking for. It's family time. His wife is pregnant. So, I feel like Rubio's maybe just more willing cuz Vance doesn't seem so excited to me. And that's the vibe that I'm getting. Well, since neither one of them going to win, I Oh, please.

[00:37:21]I will bet you right now that Vance will win the election.

[00:37:25]I bet you I don't need the dollar. I don't need the dollar. I don't need the dollar. But, uh So, what?

[00:37:29]>> I I don't think I don't think that that this is setting well with Vance because he's just not that into you. And he probably never got over that you might be America's Hitler thing. And he only chose you because he needed to show that he was could pick a young guy cuz he was approaching 80. And the and the the the age thing was dogging both him and Biden. And as soon as as soon as Kamala got into the race, then the age thing became a real issue. So, I don't I don't think he's really into Vance at all. And it must hurt. And also, >> look, he he First of all, Vance has the disadvantage of, you know, he he was a first-term senator. And Rubio has a much greater stature. There's no question Rubio would be a tougher general election stronger general >> he's little Marco. He would be he's a stronger general election candidate.

[00:38:16]>> Rubio [laughter] Vance has his own own constituencies.

[00:38:19]But, this is all a a distraction. We're a long way away. But Trump's definitely playing with both their their psyches and and Rubio looks a lot more presidential because he has greater stature in his career and as a Secretary of State. And he seems more enthusiastic.

[00:38:35]>> So last week we had a California gubernatorial debate to replace who who some say is the leading Democratic candidate for governor. And when you watch that debate, you notice that his record was being attacked by candidates from both the right and left. That's the leading candidate Democrats have right now. I think it's a great thing that we have two candidates on the Republican side that are wildly popular with the base that can keep the momentum Trump had to to win in 20 24. I think it's a good thing. And and you know, I'm friends with one of the members of the cabinet you know, personally and we talk from time to time and I asked him, I said, "Hey, what's it like? What's it like being in the cabinet? I'm curious." And he said, "You know, the strangest thing is I thought I I used to think the team of rivals was the the best method. I read the books about Lincoln, etc. Like the truth is we all kind of like each other.

[00:39:19]We all kind of get along and we all kind of swim in the same direction. I think it's a great thing. I think it's a great vibe to keep through the remainder of President Trump's term. I hope this battle doesn't come to a head until as late as possible."

[00:39:30]>> does Trump need to humiliate these two guys? It's not good TV. He has to let you know He's great TV.

[00:39:37]It's not good TV.

[00:39:38]It's not good TV.

[00:39:39]It doesn't belong [laughter] on TV.

[00:39:41]Back across, the panel's going to give us their nightcaps unifying song edition. We'll be right back.

[00:39:51]All the news.