Why Bexar County's biggest school districts are deep in the red | ENside Politics

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:04]Welcome to Inside Politics, our weekly podcast on three to four things you need to know about San Antonio politics. I'm Greg Jefferson, politics editor of the Express-News. I'm joined today by two ace education reporters, Sofia Venezuela and Noah Alcala Buck. Welcome. Thank you. How's it going? Great. All right.

[00:00:24]Not so great actually. Cuz that's that's that's why I'm having you two on.

[00:00:28]I I wanted to talk with you and hopefully get some explanation about why public education in Bear County is in such a bad way right now.

[00:00:38]Uh you've got the the big four uh public school districts hemorrhaging.

[00:00:46]They they've all got substantial budget deficits they're trying to close.

[00:00:50]And really the the the easiest and most obvious fix is to close schools and cut positions, which is what most of them are doing. And it's not just there are what? 16 public school districts in Bear County? 19. 19.

[00:01:07]So we're just talking about the top four. I would imagine that a lot of these school districts are suffering in the same way. Like they're they're they're they've got holes in their budget that they're really struggling to fill. Sofia, I'm I'm wanting to get at what what what's underlying all of this.

[00:01:22]What is what's the problem uh with school districts budgets in the last few years? Why are we seeing this?

[00:01:29]>> deficits? Absolutely. Um so a number of issues contribute to these deficits that we're seeing. One that districts would say is that state funding is not matching inflation. And that the funding that the state gives is earmarked for certain programs, [clears throat] certain uses, and there's not enough that is um you know, a catch-all that they can use for anything.

[00:01:51]>> Mhm. And then with that, districts are funded by how many kids come to school. So as we're seeing losses in enrollment, which I think we're going to chat about here in a little bit, um they are having less dollars coming in. And some folks would also say that districts have planned poorly.

[00:02:09]We have you know, we're seeing a lot of campus closures at some of these districts that they've opened all these schools and then now are trying to figure out what to do with that. So all kind of these factors coming together have created yeah, a difficult funding situation. Now some people might say Some folks would say >> Not some some folks would say maybe not me. Maybe me. But we'll see. Uh last year the the state legislature for the first time since 2019 increased the state allotment for per student funding.

[00:02:40]Uh they they raised it $55. The level is over 6,000. So the percentage was pretty minimal.

[00:02:47]>> Yeah. But it was an increase. So you would think that that would help ameliorate some of the the budgetary bleeding. That doesn't seem to be the case or not? Well, I think we're we're seeing which again we'll probably get into here, but things are getting better, right? Would you say that Noah?

[00:03:08]I don't know if I'd say that. I haven't heard I have not heard a trustee yet in my time on this job say that they're thankful for Austin really. I think they've all said we need to advocate for more funding in future sessions.

[00:03:20]Now granted I wasn't here when they got that 8.5 billion and you know, the basic allotment increase.

[00:03:25]But yeah, it's something you hear. I mean maybe a consistency from school board school school board room to school board room is they're just like we need more help from Austin. And they don't feel like that basic allotment broadly speaking most of them don't feel like that basic allotment has covered you know, the cost to run a school now with inflation and things of that nature. So Now was it also the case that during the pandemic? So the pandemic hits in 2020 and suddenly the federal spigots are open and they're getting all kinds of pandemic funding.

[00:03:56]Uh some school districts I mean and this is true of school districts, local governments, state governments, they they they had a good time with that money.

[00:04:06]They did use it to fill budgetary holes, but they also created they created programs and positions with that money that that just aren't sustainable without it. And that money is gone now.

[00:04:18]Is that feeding into the problem? I would imagine it is.

[00:04:21]Uh I think especially for Judson, you know, that has really it hasn't driven their budget crisis, right? That has been driven like with every district where you know, it's a decline in enrollment.

[00:04:32]>> Yeah. Um but you know, on the heels of the pandemic they did use ESSER funds, which are pandemic era funds to hire a lot of positions and add staff despite having you know, less students.

[00:04:43]>> Yeah. Um so yeah, they they kind of there was a hole dug there by administration because they relied on that money and then it's not there anymore. So Judson is it's one of the big four. It is number four in the big four, right? Uh kind of tell us about their budget situation. How bad off are they?

[00:05:02]Um that remains to be seen cuz they have not passed their budget yet. Now they do have a plan to balance their budget over the course of basically by next school year. So the last meeting I covered last week, I believe it was last Tuesday, they voted to ax about 536 positions from their budget for next year. Now they also in February voted to close four schools. It's going to be three elementary schools and then one middle school. So that you know, they're saying I believe the exact figure was about 284 positions will be eliminated just by those school closures. Um they have over 100 vacancies. I think almost 200 vacancies. So combined that will take you know, that's the lion's share of the jobs they're eliminating. So they only project I mean yeah, they're cutting 500 positions from the budget. They only project 77 like layoffs. And that could you know, that's if teachers don't go to other districts or >> So then these the 336 that they agreed to to ax >> A lot of those were How much? 536.

[00:06:01]>> Oh yeah, sorry. 536. So a lot of those were just vacant or about to be about to become vacant that kind of thing. So they're just going to go away. Yeah, pretty much.

[00:06:10]>> Okay. Now are they talking about a property tax increase as part of their new budget?

[00:06:16]>> They have. They So the interim superintendent has floated doing another Vader voter approved tax increase. Tell us what that is. Tell [laughter] us what that is.

[00:06:27]I hate Vader. I I do too. I don't know why I said it.

[00:06:31]It is yeah, it's basically you know, it's different from a bond, right? Where you know, if a district asks for a bond, voters approve basically this loan for them to upgrade facilities or do kind of what they want and need to with that money.

[00:06:43]Vader and those typically do not increase property taxes. At least well, you know, it doesn't increase the local tax from the school district. Um Vaders do that.

[00:06:54]They they take a couple extra pennies from you know, from constituents in the district. They have to be voter approved of course. Um So yeah, I mean they are planning to go out for that. And something that their interim superintendent has said is you know, and they So I should back up a little bit. They were expecting to generate 21 million in revenue if they passed their voter tax rate increase back in November 25. And that would have helped them plug some of the holes in their budget. Um that failed, but they're going out again this next November because the interim superintendent has said you know, if we can show the people in Judson that they're not you know, helping us pay off our debts um maybe they will you know, okay this.

[00:07:35]They'll show some you know, trust in the school system. And they've said that like if they generate that revenue, some of it will go to savings, but a lot of it will go to giving staff who are sticking with them through this time raises. So if if they go to voters, right? They might have to explain all of the investigations underway and the fact that they just >> [laughter] >> they're in the process of forcing out their superintendent. So what what is happening in Judson? It seems it seems unusual for for this kind of chaos to break out at the board level for most public school districts. It yeah, and I think in San Antonio especially you know, like um the you know, those big three suburban districts being Northside, Northeast, Judson, you don't you haven't historically seen like high superintendent turnover or a lot of board infighting. Um Judson in recent years has experienced that. And I would say it starts it starts in 2023 with Monica Ryan was elected to the school board. She's now the school board president. Um but she was sort of the I mean she was the minority faction at the time. There were six-one votes left and right where she would you know, go down swinging on an issue. A lot of what she advocated for was closing budget gaps, being more physically physically fiscally responsible. Um so you mentioned they're ousting their superintendent. In 2024 he was extended through 2028.

[00:08:59]>> Milton Fields. Milton Fields, yes.

[00:09:02]And that is a six-one vote in October 2024.

[00:09:06]Monica Ryan was the lone vote against.

[00:09:08]And there at the time she just essentially said you know, we haven't had enough time to evaluate the superintendent's performance you know, before making this decision.

[00:09:16]Um well, she goes from leading from being the minority faction to in 2025 three I would say political more ideological kind of allies are elected to that board. So she now has a four-three majority. Right. Um so they take control of the board and what she has long advocated for as I said is fiscal responsibility you know, so like So this isn't she's she's not about parental rights. And she's not about kind of monitoring very closely sex education, what's in your library, but making sure that the the the budget is truly balanced. Yeah. Is that right or I would say that's been her biggest sort of policy push.

[00:09:56]>> Okay.

[00:09:57]And you know, with that I mean I remember the last I think the last meeting in December that the board had her and Fields butted heads because his district was or his administration and he was recommending like let's you know, squash the budget deficit but let's do it over 2 years.

[00:10:14]Let's do it slowly. I think there were less school closures mentioned fewer staff cuts or you know, over a longer period of time obviously. Right. Um and Ryan wanted it seems like really wanted to rip off the band-aid and get those cuts in a year. Mhm. Um board votes to put Milton Fields on paid administrative leave in January pending the results of an unspecified investigation which we still have not really gotten much detail on what that is entailed. Mhm. Um February 4-3 vote with the majority faction in favor of beginning the process to fire him. So is the reason he's being shown the door because he wasn't austere enough and in his budget recommendations.

[00:10:54]Wasn't talking about cutting enough. Was that it or is there something else? I think you have this new board majority and they want things done their way and Ryan's leading the charge. Mhm. And so um I think we've even seen with their interim superintendent like Robert Jacklich you know, it's not like I mean they you know, the plan that he put forward was we're going to balance this budget in 1 year. Mhm.

[00:11:17]Um and I will say you know, a lot of cabinet members who were cabinet members for Fields as well have kind of supported that and were talking to trustees at their you know, last Tuesday's meeting being like hey like if we do this, we are now in control of our finances.

[00:11:31]Mhm. Um and you know, I mean we obviously like I said they got to approve their budget before June 30th but if they do that and they make these cuts and the school closures give them the you know, the savings that they are expecting, they will be most likely one of the few districts um and maybe even the only one of the big four to have a balanced budget. Now, will that be true uh next year at this time?

[00:11:57]Or is this going to be a recurring problem where school districts they move heaven and earth to balance their budget only to in the following year again have to move heaven and earth one more time.

[00:12:10]I think that is dependent on how this this vote on the tax rate increase goes.

[00:12:16]Um if they do go out for that in November.

[00:12:18]It is also dependent on if Austin provides more funding you know, um that being the legislature.

[00:12:25]>> Yeah. Um so yeah. So before we move on from Judson, Mhm. uh you know, I mentioned voters having to consider okay, why exactly did they ask their superintendent Mhm.

[00:12:38]voters [clears throat] multi might also ask like okay, why was our school board president under investigation and why was Jose Macias Macias also under investigation as a school board member?

[00:12:51]Enlighten us. Why were they? Um Or why why are they? These are these are not closed investigations. They they are not closed. Well, Or are >> we'll see. There is there is an agenda item at least for now on Thursday Uh to possibly take action or censure Macias.

[00:13:09]Um not entirely sure where the Ryan investigation's at if that will be on the agenda. Um They stem from two different things. So in the case in Monica Ryan's case, there was a community member who claimed during a public comment section. I believe it was when they put Fields on administrative leave. Um She claimed that she used her authority as the board president to enroll her kids in a specific class or kind of to get them special treatment. Um you know, Ryan has denied that claim but Jose Macias who the longest serving board member now you know, the most vocal member of the minority faction. Uh-huh.

[00:13:45]Um he was like we got to look into this.

[00:13:48]We should check it out. Uh-huh. Um and then on an you know, after that was first kind of sent motion. Um uh you know, there was an investigation launched into Jose Macias. It seems largely based on like social media stuff he shared that possibly runs a foul of school board governance codes and things like that.

[00:14:09]>> just dishonest? Was it I don't know. Was it scurrilous in any way? Did it did did it violate an ethics code?

[00:14:17]I I mean I'm going to be honest. I'm not an expert on school board governance.

[00:14:21]I we'll see what you know, they have two law firms. You've got Walsh Gallegos is the law firm that the board recently decided to kind of move away from and so they will be leading they or they are conducting the investigation into Monica Ryan. Yeah. And then JCA Law is doing is handling the Jose Macias investigation. So we'll see >> And I would imagine not pro bono. So you've got you've got a school district that's that's combating a sizable budget spending money with outside law firms.

[00:14:52]Correct. How much are they paying?

[00:14:55]We don't know. I mean >> [sighs] >> Woof. Walsh Gallegos I believe was 165 an hour.

[00:15:01]We haven't seen I haven't requested yet the um the invoices for JCA Law but I you know, Yeah. Lawyers get paid fairly well so >> [laughter] >> I imagine imagine it's not like chump change.

[00:15:14]>> They do okay. Okay.

[00:15:16]All right. So let's let's jump to the to the second biggest school district NEISD. Mhm. So what what condition are is is their uh kind of initial budget in? Yeah. So they in in 2023 they were at nearly a $40 million deficit and they have slashed that in by half. So they're now at 19 as of last week.

[00:15:38]>> So they have they've done a a number of things. They closed a few campuses at the beginning of this school year and they've been um they've been trying to be pretty tight with their purse strings.

[00:15:49]Um so that's kind of how they've worked on that initially. Mhm. Uh they've half proposed another round of closures. Uh no actual campuses are um on the chopping block yet. Mhm. But [clears throat] they are um about to analyze all like data from all of their campuses Right. to and then bring that to the board in the fall to recommend what should be next. Mhm. So they're working [clears throat] on um still getting that down. Um and then one point that's interesting with them is last week they voted to um approve open enrollment so they opened the district boundaries.

[00:16:24]And so Okay. So that's that's a really interesting kind of idea uh NEISD or pardon me Northside did this the year before correct?

[00:16:35]>> Correct. Open enrollment. Explain to me how this works. Yeah. So um typically students um they they have to go to obviously the the district where they live where they are zoned.

[00:16:46]Um they pay taxes into the district and then you know, the students attend schools there.

[00:16:51]Um and I Um I I do think I'm new to Texas but where I'm from this was actually a very political thing where people really wanted to protect their district. They wanted to protect you know, the culture >> Yeah.

[00:17:07]>> [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. But that that It seems like you're setting up a situation where you're you have a public particularly in Bear County where you've got as you say 19 uh school districts and you've got the the bigger wealthier school districts engaging in open enrollment kind of poaching students from >> from around the county um which means the districts you're poaching from they're hurt because they're getting they're not getting that funding per student funding >> Exactly. from the state and now the the larger wealthier school district is um do we know is it too early to say how successful Northside was in this? Like how many how many students moved from other school districts to Northside in the last year? Do you want to answer?

[00:17:56]>> Uh yeah, we have kind of a rough figure so that would be 420 kids at least in the inaugural year. Mhm. Um >> Which I mean doesn't sound a lot like a lot.

[00:18:05]>> Right. And that doesn't include I mean you know, they have you know, if you're an employee there like if I'm a teacher there I think my kid can go to a Northside school.

[00:18:13]There's also magnet schools so like like I went to a magnet school in Northside and I went those have been like open enrollment per se for like a long time.

[00:18:21]Like I had friends who were zoned to Alamo Heights or Northeast or whatever and they would come and you know, go to school at Comarts because it was a magnet program. So that 420 number does not account for those figures. Mhm.

[00:18:34]Yeah. So it's just straight just as straight out of like regular regular old schools they're just hawking them out.

[00:18:41]Okay. Because it does seem like it's kind of chartery behavior right?

[00:18:47]>> [laughter] >> I mean I mean I'm curious like is is this actually what it appears to be which is public school district taking on some of the trappings of [snorts] the charter charter movement.

[00:18:58]>> And I do think it's the landscape is becoming just more competitive. So as charters and and then now you know, through vouchers students do have more choice and families have more choice. So they are leaving but then now we have yeah, these these districts these ISDs that are doing the the same thing but just because of the way that it's funded uh I do see the utility there but >> Yeah. um it is it it yeah. They are doing kind of what they're complaining about but Now does does Northeast side um administrators and trustees do they talk about open enrollment for what it appears to be which is a way to uh get more students and get more state funding? Like is it that simple or are they making another argument for why they're doing what they're doing?

[00:19:48]>> Well so I chatted with yeah, some folks at Northeast last week when just after they approved this this motion and and at the board meeting too it does come down to the bottom line but I think also the goal is to you know they do want kids in seats. They do want to make the buildings more efficient so they don't have to close as many campuses and that's why they aren't making decisions on closures yet just because it's they're trying to draw in all these folks to fill seats to then hopefully not have to close as many schools but it's just kind of this ebb and flow of kids are coming in kids are coming out and that's deciding how much money they're getting and um it's it's it's very in flux which is very interesting.

[00:20:31]>> and they've got an interim superintendent so what happened to the previous one and when did they expect to get a permanent replacement and is this like why are we seeing so many this is the the second why are there so many why is there why is there so much churn among school school district superintendents? pass the ball back to you here. [laughter] Yeah go ahead. Well I mean I think I think it's interesting like I you know with Northeast ISD obviously we had Sean Maika who was in the in the seat for about five or six years you know regarded locally as like a great mind and innovation and education and you know as you know balanced some very tough school boards politically Anthony Jarrett you know Sean Maika was um sort of an internal hire right like he climbed through the ranks I believe he started as a middle school principal and then you know eventually was named to the superintendent after an interim period so I think they're given that same sort of tryout period there to Anthony Jarrett but that I mean we have of the big four we have three of these districts that are either that are on interim superintendents or starting a superintendent search haven't started one yet um with Judson like I said I think it comes down to again we haven't seen the investigation but like I think it comes down to like board dynamics largely with SAISD which we'll talk about that more later that is you know that is a retiring superintendent from an urban district which is um appears to be a difficult job and then with Northeast it seems like you know they're looking to hire someone internally someone who gets the culture of the district everything cuz that's historically how they've done this. Yeah I'm just wondering if just the kind of the brutal nature of budget making for school districts like that has to have something to do with it right? I mean it's it's a pressure cooker job because of money.

[00:22:22]Or I mean I know that's a statement not a question but it appears to be true right? I mean that's you know Jaime Aquino who's the superintendent of SAISD at least until January of next year he came in for an editorial board not too long ago and he said you know I've been in public education for about 40 years and this is by far the hardest year I've seen. Yeah. One problem that is definitely going to make life harder for school districts and their trustees is the state's voucher program and you're really going to start feeling that the effects of that in the next year. This is the state's giving families up to $10,000 for a private school education for their kids is going to drain kids out of public school districts and I would guess all four of the school districts we're talking about have estimates on how many kids they're going to lose in the next year so let's hear them.

[00:23:16]>> yeah so at Northeast ISD roughly 5500 and this is based on the families that have applied for this preliminary data within the district's boundaries at Northside that's 7000 SAISD roughly 2200 and at Judson roughly 1800 um yeah so that's a lot of kids that's a lot of kids.

[00:23:37]>> That's a lot of kids. Yeah and it was worth noting like these are numbers from the comptroller's office and they are based on district boundaries so you could I mean some of these kids could already be enrolled in private school I mean we did see that a majority of the kids that have or families that have applied for this program are already enrolled in private school.

[00:23:53]>> Okay so okay. So my might not be as dire as it looks so these kids may be already in that school not not you know Reagan High School or anything like that. That that is correct. I mean I think it's interesting now there's other there's another two factors you have to consider as well and one of that those is the priority kind of list so the families that get priority are the ones who are economically disadvantaged and then students with special needs and you know depending on the need I mean you can get up to $30,000 in this you know taxpayer subsidized program. um but yeah I mean you know in in some cases I think this is maybe a little bit less than what districts were expecting I can only really speak to SAISD but you know and there's even been one trustee there who's like hey as we're having this budget discussion we should account for a few more kids like this is good news like a lot of these you know this [clears throat] isn't as bad as we anticipated and I do I want to say I don't have it off the top of my head but SAISD's projection is lower than this comptroller's office number so So what does that mean as far as their budget making? I mean are they is the trustee who I think is like Villarreal?

[00:25:00]>> It would be like Villarreal yeah. Yeah so he's he's saying like look you may be overestimating the number of kids we're losing and that's going to hurt us that's built into your projection. Is it built into SAISD's projection like is it should it be lower? They've sort of said it's a moving target but they have said that they in an early kind of budget discussion they said they overestimated it and they're still I believe they're still waiting on like a finalized number from the comptroller's office of hey here's how many kids you have enrolled. um and I think I mean you know it is interesting right cuz we've looked you look at the urban core and especially like on the topic of open enrollment um you look at the urban core and as San Antonio's grown it's not like people have just moved out in droves but you have had a lot of families kind of hit the road for the suburbs or maybe you know as as a result of like gentrification have maybe been displaced a little bit and so um it's quite possible that like this figure is you know is heavily like families who live in the King William's area who are already sending their kids to private school and not you know the families on the East Side and the West Side. Yeah you know.

[00:26:08]Now before we move on from Northeast so Northeast was just taken over by the state. Yes.

[00:26:16]>> [laughter] >> But not really right? So State the state has intervened the state has announced it wants to install someone um conservator conservator from the state to come in and force the district to comply with this universal cell phone ban meaning that students wouldn't be able to be on their phones from the first bell of the day to the last bell of the day.

[00:26:39]>> this fight has been going on for since last summer Yes. Kind of walk us through what state law requires and what the school district is trying to do. So state law yeah requires students to not be on their personal devices so phones tablets probably Apple watches anything that they can communicate with other folks from the beginning of the day to the end of the day and the loophole that Northeast found was that they allow they define the school day as just instructional time so they allowed students to still be on their devices during lunch during the time they were passing the hallways um in the other activities rather than just in their their classroom. Right. And then the state threatened to take over threatened intervention because well first they said you need to follow the rule and then Northeast said we are but just we found our own way and then this kind of kept escalating kept going back and forth Noah covered a lot of this and then just just a week and a half ago the TEA released this 20 page report saying you didn't follow the rule we gave you a chance to change we want to install a conservator to force you to. So this is not this is not TEA taking over the board and installing a board of managers not anything like that.

[00:28:05]>> it's the second it's the next worst thing. Really okay so they so but will this conservator will this person who I'm guessing hasn't been appointed yet?

[00:28:15]>> No so they have a time I've been asking questions about this and they haven't gotten back to me which is but they are going to talk about this at their next open meeting I believe so that will be exciting.

[00:28:26]>> Will the conservator care about anything other than the cell phone policy?

[00:28:30]>> No it's just just for that.

[00:28:32]>> So just making sure that the kids don't have phones at school.

[00:28:35]>> Right. Now can you explain to me um why NEISD has been so steadfast about doing it in this way. It is the only according to TEA this is the only school district in the state of Texas which is big >> Right. not complying with the state law.

[00:28:57]Why why not? So they have this really they being the board and I think it's a district culture as well desire to have parents rights and that I think is a bigger movement outside of just the district but at Northeast they really want to represent their parents so that they had um supposedly you know pulled parents on what they want wanted to to happen and they said we want our kids we want to be able to access them what if there's an emergency what if they need something what if they're sick so we want them to be able to contact us the parents and the trustees honored that and have really dug in their heels on that and um which which makes sense but then it's this tension between we're representing um our you know our our our district versus the state wants something different so um it really is an interesting tension there.

[00:29:50]>> How much of it do you think has to do with fear of school shootings and what happens in the events of you know something something tragic happening on a council campus and wanting to get a hold of your kid?

[00:30:06]Yeah, so I I think that would be obviously like the worst case scenario, the worst fear, but obviously the most accessible in a lot of ways. So, I I I think that there's a big um that is a big part of it.

[00:30:21]But but I will say also I've chatted with some teachers just like in a friendly way like kind of off the record, but not so not naming names, but I feel like they they at other districts like feel that the cell phone does work and that it does keep kids off their phones and that there's this belief of just oh you can the rule says you can just call the office.

[00:30:40]>> Right. And then the office is in charge of being kind of the middle man.

[00:30:44]>> Right. Which makes sense, but if there God forbid this terrible situation, then I mean the office can't call thousands of parents. So, I think it kind of does rest in some of those fears. Okay. So, before we leave the north side to go to our favorite inner city school district, third largest, that being SAISD, let's talk about just for a moment about NISD.

[00:31:10]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:31:11]>> How how are they doing? Cuz they this used to be and I think probably still is solid, you know, rock solid.

[00:31:19]>> [laughter] >> Had superintendent who was in on the job for eons. Yeah. And never had to worry about budget deficits, always seemed to have its act together and it was moving very smoothly, did well in state rankings, state state's grading system. How are they doing this this time? Yeah, so they have if we're looking at the the list of deficits, which I don't know if we've listed those yet, so I'll go ahead and do that. Or I said northeast, but NISD has a $38 million deficit as of February according to Scott Huddleston, who is not with us at this moment.

[00:31:59]So, that that is the second HIGHEST [laughter] on the list. So, that yeah, a far cry from a you know, maybe a a prior scenario when um They got their challenges. They have their challenges.

[00:32:21]But yeah, maybe not in the headlines as much as some of these other districts for governance challenges, but definitely budget challenges.

[00:32:30]>> it's I mean it's probably worth noting that their that their budget deficit I mean to keep it in perspective this is a big school district.

[00:32:37]>> Yeah. And you know, what was it? 38 million? Was that Yeah, so that for NISD that 38 million would look very different in Harlandale or yeah, they would look like a huge hole and it's guessing pretty manageable in NISD.

[00:32:56]Yeah.

[00:32:56]>> say there won't be cuts, probably will be maybe we'll see, but it's not it's not as cataclysmic as it would be for other districts I would think.

[00:33:05]>> Yeah, yeah. Well, I will say with the seven the with the voucher question, seven the highest number of 7,000 students may leave. Obviously no one noted that those could be students that have already enrolled. Yeah, but that will cause problems.

[00:33:19]>> still it's going to I think every school district is going to suffer at least a little bit, right?

[00:33:24]Um SAISD over over its long history, it's it's had some suffering. How how's it doing now? Uh still suffering. I mean I don't know. Now, it is interesting cuz SAISD has the most, you know, as I'm looking at these numbers you have northeast as you mentioned you brought, you know, 40 million down to 19. Judson is projected to have a balanced budget after you know, grappling with 37 million projected. SAISD is projected about 46 million and their plan is to sort of turn that around over two years. So, they're looking to make about 19 million dollars in cuts going into next school year.

[00:34:00]They have an incredible challenge being the oldest school district in San Antonio and also compared to other like urban school systems very small. I mean, you know, you with like Houston ISD for example, you've got this ginormous circle that I think almost the entire city.

[00:34:18]Austin you've got, you know, a big chunk of the city. Same thing with Dallas and Fort Worth.

[00:34:23]And as a result you have more kids.

[00:34:24]SAISD is really just the urban core with the exception even some parts of like the south side and like I guess east central takes a chunk of like that southeast side.

[00:34:35]Um so, they also have the oldest schools.

[00:34:40]So, they're spending, you know, their CPS bills are a lot more than north sides because they're managing these older properties built for, you know, different weather patterns we'll say, you know, often times built for Like less hot.

[00:34:55]>> [laughter] >> Is that is that the word? I mean, I'm not sure. I've only I've only been in San Antonio 20 something years, but some of these schools >> Well, you were away for a long time, so Yeah.

[00:35:04]>> Thank you. Thank you. I I miss when Fiesta was sunny.

[00:35:08]You know, so they are dealing with like the main and just the overall maintenance costs, you know, older campuses I mean, you know, just like older homes they tend to have, you know, they might be a little bit draftier, they might have they might need more fixes over the years.

[00:35:19]Whereas, you know, you have like with north side for example where they built a lot of their schools in like the late 90s and early 2000s to mid 2000s.

[00:35:28]Um so, you have bills there.

[00:35:31]You've had a declining enrollment for like 25 years and as the urban core has sort of changed and like who's living there and stuff it one thing that has seemed to be consistent is that families are leaving. And even when young families are moving in, you know, usually it's for like like we said like urban rural gentrification like they're I would imagine often sending their kids to private schools or to charters.

[00:35:54]>> [clears throat] >> You've had the charter, you know, the charter school movement has really started it's expanded everywhere and it's it's taken [clears throat] a chunk out of each district. Um but that really started in here it started in the inner city because, you know, to run a charter back in the day you have to used to have to go to TEA and say, "Hey, there's a real need in this community or this neighborhood like this school district is not adequately serving these kids."

[00:36:17]And so that's how you had a lot of these campuses come about in these underserved neighborhoods of San Antonio.

[00:36:22]Um so, they've dealt, you know, as other districts have dealt with maybe like 10 years or like five years of declining enrollment as a result of birth rates San Antonio ISD has dealt with 25 of that.

[00:36:31]>> Yeah, it's like generational. And yeah, and they have these old buildings on their hands and they, you know, they doesn't, you know, and these facilities don't necessarily match their student population. Like the leaders have said district trustees have said before like 50 campuses is their ideal number and they have like 84 right now.

[00:36:49]And granted they're going to close two of those at the end of the school year.

[00:36:53]Well, the fact that they've identified the optimum number, right? Or the optimum number as 50.

[00:36:59]Is is there any kind of long-term plan to get the school district school district down to 50 campuses or as close to that number as possible? I mean, they have a long stretching like right sizing plan. So, I think the answer ultimately is yes.

[00:37:15]But it is difficult. They also are grappling with um you know, they have we wrote about it like they anticipate a third of their campuses are going to score an F on the star test this year.

[00:37:26]>> [snorts] >> And something that can trigger a TEA takeover is, you know, having letter of the law is like five straight years a single campus gets an F. That means that, you know, TEA can come in and take over the district or they can close the school. Um usually they go with the first option at least we've seen in Houston and Fort Worth um and in a handful of other districts across the state. Um but you know, so the SAISD is balancing like that, right?

[00:37:53]Like they don't want they have some campuses that are getting a three year Fs.

[00:37:57]I think they have one that's at risk of a four year F.

[00:38:01]And so in some cases they're handing these schools off to charter operators who approved by the state to turn around the schools. In other cases like Rhodes they're and Carvajal they're just closing them, you know.

[00:38:11]>> Right. Um Is is SAISD's trustees and administrators are they simply in like this this ongoing cycle of of crisis and response?

[00:38:26]Or have they had, you know, have they have they had any respites in recent years or has it been one long budget crisis?

[00:38:33]It has been one long budget crisis roughly. I mean, and and it keeps going >> if they're looking around at other school districts and saying, you know, welcome to our world.

[00:38:41]>> [laughter] >> You know, this is we've been experiencing a more severe version of what you're experiencing for for a long time now.

[00:38:47]Yeah, I mean, I think that that is largely true, you know, cuz they have yeah, they've had five years of strategic budget cuts where they're, you know, dealing with getting that number down year after year after year and they're still left with, you know, a pretty hefty bill. Yeah. Now, one of their solutions which has been a controversial one is to sign an agreement with third future. It's a charter school operator. Tell us what the district agreed to do, but let's let's start with third future itself. Tell us what you know about it. Yeah, so it is a charter school operator based out of Colorado. It was started by Mike Miles. That is probably a familiar name to many people listening to this podcast.

[00:39:34]Dallas ISD superintendent for a long time, real reform minded data driven guy. Um and uh, know, after he had some, you know, really turned around the test scores and academic performance in that district, he went uh, back to Colorado, um, where he's from, started up this uh, you know, this school operator with a very similar model to some of his Dallas schools, implemented a couple new things.

[00:39:59]Uh, you know, now people will remember like Mike Morath, who's been the education commissioner for the state now for a decade, was on that Dallas school board when Miles was superintendent. So, as TEA has taken over more districts, one of the big, you know, the big takeover that they've had over the past, you know, 5 years was Houston ISD. Miles left Third Future, he went to Houston ISD.

[00:40:20]Um, and they've implemented a lot of the educational structure and system there at those schools. So, that includes things like, um, you know, you have non-traditional electives in some cases.

[00:40:30]You'll, you know, you have schools that offer like piano lessons. You have schools that offer like yoga. Um, oftentimes these schools do offer the traditional sports as long as there's a demand there, uh, which I know was a concern about, you know, among some SAISD parents. Um, but yeah, it is really this very structured. Nowadays, data-heavy, so there is a lot of like test prep and focus on, you know, getting those scores up. Um, but they are now an approved turnaround operator for, um, schools in Texas that might be struggling academically. Um, you also get and >> So, is that the state sanctioning this this company to say, "Okay, you can you can go into a public school district and take over a campus?"

[00:41:08]>> [snorts] >> I wouldn't go that far. I would say, I mean, cuz, you know, SAISD has said like that is the only approved turnaround partner. Now, I mean, there's another turnaround partner that, um, Austin ISD was able to get into one of their schools. Um, so, but it they do fit the criteria that TEA has, which is you need to have a proven record of really improving academic performance and you need to have a proven record of, you know, you have to operate multiple campuses over multiple years. Um, and they do both of those things. So, they have, you know, they have partnerships across the state. They've got, you know, they have Austin ISD, they had a school they turned around in there. Um, they've got they just signed some contracts in Waco, um, which there was a Permian Basin town where they're at. Um, I believe they're in Midland, uh, as well. So, SAISD is kind of one of the first big, um, bigger urban districts with the exception of Austin that they've sort of entered into. Um, but yeah, I mean, the state has approved them, they've given the okay, they've basically said, "Hey, these guys have a track record of turning around students' academic performance." And as a result, you know, um, the other part of this is that when these districts enter in these agreements, they give themselves a little bit of extra time um, to turn around these schools. And they also get more funding per kid, um, as part of the 1882 partnership. So, yes, this this is kind of, you know, it's SAISD resetting the clock a little bit, but also going with someone who has a record of turning around these test scores so that they aren't, you know, in the same position with these three schools that they are this year where they're, you know, at risk of getting a fourth F.

[00:42:40]>> Right. So, they're they're going to be administering three three campuses.

[00:42:45]Which ones? They'll be taking over Tafolla Middle School, um, which is where a lot of the kids who are zoned to Rhodes, which is set to close at the end of the school year, or ahead of next school year, I should say, will go.

[00:42:56]Um, it's going to be, yeah, Tafolla Middle School and then Hirsch and Ogden Elementary Schools.

[00:43:00]>> Okay. Now, uh, I'm going to guess the teachers' union is not happy with this.

[00:43:05]>> They're thrilled about it. Really?

[00:43:07]>> No. Um, they [laughter] So, you know, >> You said that so convincingly.

[00:43:11]>> figured.

[00:43:12]>> What? Um, no, no. They are What are their objections? Their objection is largely based in, um, you know, the fact that they now cannot represent these employees. And also, um, you know, the teachers there get a chance to reapply for their jobs, but they do have to reapply for their jobs because this is effectively, it's a really weird partnership, but like effectively, these teachers are not SAISD teachers anymore.

[00:43:36]If I am a teacher at Tafolla and I decide, you know, I want to keep teaching with Third Future next year, I got to reapply for my job. Um, you do get like priority, I believe. Um, but then your employer is Third Future.

[00:43:49]Um, and SAISD has a similar relationship with Democracy Prep, uh, which took over what used to be Stewart Element, Stu Yeah, Stewart Elementary on the East Side, where, you know, yes, it is a in-district charter school in SAISD's boundaries, parameters, has zoned kids that come, you know, neighborhood kids that come. Um, but if you're a teacher there, you're a Democracy Prep employee. So, they lose their ability to represent these teachers. The other objections they've had, obviously, are, you know, a real focus on testing. I mean, the teachers' unions across the state are often the most vocal about their concerns with just the weight that is put on STAR and especially in these accountability scores in these accountability scores.

[00:44:29]Um, >> [clears throat] >> their argument is largely, I mean, just testing doesn't measure the whole kid.

[00:44:33]And also, like, it is a snapshot, it is one day in time in April that sort of determines a campus's whole score. Okay.

[00:44:41]So, Third Future comes in, uh, they basically the the contracts that the teachers' union had doesn't really apply. And those teachers have to reapply, I would imagine staff has to do the same thing.

[00:44:56]Um, if it's successful, a turnaround operation sometimes implies that it's like, "Okay, we fixed it. We've we've accomplished our goal and we've we've established some systems that we think will help it succeed. You know, these kids will be well taught into the future if they do these things.

[00:45:15]Here's your here's your school back. Is that going to happen or do they do they continue operating those campuses? No, so those their contracts are through 2029. So, they'll have those schools for a few years, and they project, I mean, their superintendent has gone to both Edgewood, who also handed over a school, and SAISD and basically said, "Look, we have a track record of really turning around these schools and we give them back better than we found them."

[00:45:41]Um, so, but that said, it does go back to SAISD's, um, purview, um, at least as the contract is written now. Um, and there are certain performance metrics that Third Future has to hit.

[00:45:54]Like, they have to deliver on their turnaround plan. Yeah.

[00:45:58]Now, how much of the resistance to these contracts had to do with like what it it looks like public education, uh, in this school district is is taking on kind of like with open enrollment in NEISD and NISD, it's taking on kind of the patina of of uh, the charter movement. That it's it is becoming it is becoming what has been hurting it, you know, one of the things that's been hurting it over time.

[00:46:28]Is that is that is that part of the is that part of the argument against it?

[00:46:33]Yes and no. I think that there is there is a lot of concern among district parents and trustees about a TEA takeover. Um, and we have seen, you know, historically like underserved neighborhoods, it just just generally in in academics, you know, kids who face a lot of like economic, um, adversity and do not perform as well as like maybe their more affluent peers.

[00:47:00]Um, and so, I think the concern really and the pushback with Third Future has been like, "This is happening to these communities." They feel like they're losing voice and representation. And yes, like parents, a couple trustees, you know, local, uh, progressive kind of grassroots organizations have taken issue with the fact that TEA likes Third Future and that Third Future used to be run, um, you know, by Mike Miles. And I think that they feel like that is in some cases I feel like they almost interpret it as a form of a state takeover. I I think they also acknowledge that you're balancing, you know, you're now resetting the clock on that takeover and you're doing the right things to avoid it, but I think in some cases, yeah, the animosity from the community has been like, they feel like they're losing their neighborhood school and their ability to shape it and make decisions around it. Great.

[00:47:51]No, and Sophia, I thank you very much.

[00:47:54]You've spent a lot of time on a busy news day. I appreciate it. Uh, we'll we'll leave it there unless you Do you have a joke you want to tell? Nothing?

[00:48:02]No? Um, not that I have any >> [laughter] >> good news. Is there any good news you want to share? If not, we'll we'll we'll move on. Yeah, yeah. Let's just wrap it.

[00:48:10]>> Yeah.

[00:48:11]>> [laughter] >> Uh, thank you very much. Uh, we will see you next week. If you haven't signed up for the Inside Politics newsletter, drop down to show notes, click on the link, and sign up. We'll see you next week.

[00:48:22]Thanks a lot.

[00:48:25]>> [music]