Fascist Fashion with Tan France

[00:00:00]You get asked about celebrity fashion all the time. You get asked about fashion in regards to >> heterosexual men. You get asked about fashion on the runway. One of the things you don't get asked about >> is the fashion choices of the dictator and death spots that shape society.

[00:00:15]>> Oh, >> Tan, I'd love your fashion takes on some of the world's greatest despots and dictators. Let's do it.

[00:00:24]>> So, let's take a look at this first one.

[00:00:26]This is Kim Jong-un and Xi Jinping. My publicist is [laughter] going to hate what I'm about to say. Purely based on what they are wearing, they're satoral choices.

[00:00:36]>> Dictator fashion.

[00:00:37]>> There are their saratoral choices exclusively.

[00:00:40]>> Yes.

[00:00:41]>> Kim Jong >> the supreme leader.

[00:00:42]>> I hate to say his jackets always fit well.

[00:00:45]>> He's wearing a militarystyle nu jacket in a really good fit. So it it skims his body really well. In stark contrast, his is bad. His is not a good look. The other guy is crushing the look. All right, let's look at our next dictator.

[00:00:58]Let's look at Vladimir Putin. [laughter] The jacket is a lot. Take away that jacket. And I like that he went for a roll neck. Is it the fur and the suede and the >> exposed zipper and the patch pockets and the sheerling on the neck and the sleeve? It's everything. There is someone I've been obsessed with ever since the Patriot Act.

[00:01:20]>> Yes.

[00:01:20]>> I was obsessed with the Libyan dictator Moar Gaddafi. Bad dude. Okay. Hot take.

[00:01:28]Not a great guy.

[00:01:29]>> He shot a civilian airline out of the sky. Not great. That being said, style [ __ ] icon. Bam.

[00:01:39]>> Are you struggling with sight? Cuz that outfit's hideous.

[00:01:43]>> What are you talking about?

[00:01:43]>> The outfit's hideous. It looks so badly made. It looks like it's from Sheen.

[00:01:48]>> Okay. How dare you? Let's take a look at look two. Bam.

[00:01:53]Bam. Okay. You know what? [laughter] This is it. This is it.

[00:02:00]>> It's very bold. I I don't I'm not mad at the pin. The pin's nice.

[00:02:04]>> This is the NAACP Awards meets the UN Security Council.

[00:02:08]>> The fact that he went for a full ensemble.

[00:02:12]I'm so impressed with this guy.

[00:02:13]>> So, are you understanding why I'm so deeply fascinated about his fashion choices?

[00:02:18]>> He's the boldest man on the planet. I really, really, really like this look.

[00:02:22]>> Is it the general thing? Because I know with a lot of Pakistanis, they love the general look.

[00:02:26]>> I think I like the general look. The jacket fits in a really impressive way.

[00:02:31]Like it is so well cut for this man.

[00:02:34]>> Um there's one dictator who I'm pretty sure you're going to connect with storially. This is Paul Pot.

[00:02:39]>> Who?

[00:02:40]>> Kind of a genocidal maniac that killed a lot of his own civilians. Bad.

[00:02:45]>> Bad.

[00:02:46]>> Not a good dude.

[00:02:46]>> But he's wearing my lock. [ __ ] stop.

[00:02:49][laughter] >> His hair's done well. The cut of that suit is perfect.

[00:02:56]>> I can hear your publicist sweating in the other room, by the way.

[00:02:59]>> She's fine.

[00:03:01]>> If you were a fan of Patriot Act, you might remember a behind-the-scenes video Tan France and I made [music] where he quereyed me and called me out for trying to look cool.

[00:03:08]>> Do you feel like it makes you look dweeb?

[00:03:10]>> I look like a dweeb. Yeah.

[00:03:11]>> Who cares?

[00:03:12]>> So, yeah. I just >> Who cares if you look dweeb? Is being cool super important to you?

[00:03:16]>> Yes.

[00:03:16]>> Really? Yeah, you're right. We're too old for that [ __ ] What do you mean?

[00:03:20]>> Now, I have grown up since then, and I've stopped trying to be cool. [music] I'm still cool, but now it's just an accident. I swear. Obviously, Tan France is best known for his fashion taste and amazing British accent, but his life story, which he wrote about in his 2019 memoir, Naturally [music] Tan. It's really fascinating. I mean, he's an openly gay Muslim with Pakistani parents, fled the UK because of extreme racism there, and then moved to Salt Lake City, where he's lived the past two decades. So, I sat down with Tan to talk about racism in the UK, which I don't know if you've heard, it's pretty bad. I knew from a very young age, this isn't home. Like, home should be safe. We're not safe here. So, this can't be our home. And why he chose to flee to America, even though I don't know if you've also heard this, racism is pretty bad here, too.

[00:04:05]>> Even if they were racist, they didn't know how to be racist towards me. And I know that sounds really lame to want that. I'll take that and you thinking, I want to [ __ ] call him something.

[00:04:16]Where the [ __ ] is he from? I don't know how to hurt him. As opposed to, I know exactly what to say, you dirty. And then we pivot from racism to some really heavy important topics like body hair and how our strategy of trimming in hotel bathrooms has made us shunned by society. I thought everyone does that.

[00:04:36]Is it just us?

[00:04:37]>> It's us. It's just us. Oh, don't you dare come for us in the comments [music] unless you have visible hair on your knuckles.

[00:04:45]>> Okay, ladies and gentlemen, [singing and music] >> you've been asking the one, the only Mr. Tan France. Let's go.

[00:04:51]>> Thank you, sir.

[00:04:53]>> This is going to be so fun. This is This is It's just pure fun.

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[00:06:06]>> My family were really uh really really really Asian, like so Asian. And so we were really particular about how everything was done. And uh and they didn't want us to be super Asian. They wanted us to live the Asian life at home but be successful in the UK. And I don't know what life is like for Asian-Americans, but for us, it was a case of we want you to be the most Pakistani at home, but when you leave this house, you will speak in a really perfect English accent. No regional stuff. So, I have a People make fun online a lot of my accent because it doesn't sound like a Yorkshire accent.

[00:06:42]It's a very neutral accent. That was by design. So, when we were out of the house, we called our parents mom and dad, >> right? We didn't call them Abu and Ami.

[00:06:53]It just was not a thing. They really wanted >> So the moment the door opens, you're like, "Mom, >> mom, >> what?"

[00:06:59]>> Oh yeah.

[00:07:00]>> Okay.

[00:07:00]>> Oh yeah. They wanted us. I know that that sounds crazy, >> but they knew how England works. We wouldn't get work. We wouldn't see success if we were not speaking Queen's English.

[00:07:13]>> Okay, >> I know that sounds nuts, but she was right. I wouldn't be sat here. I wouldn't have be there's no way I'd be on TV if I was like listen let's go to the park and it like that just it wouldn't happen that would not happen >> you'd be on man like mid you wouldn't be that's exactly it >> I want your thoughts on this a lot of times people say fashion is for rich people kind of like when you hear the sentence we bought this home in all cash [laughter] are your thoughts on the critique that people think that fashion is elitist It depends on your idea of fashion.

[00:07:49]>> Okay.

[00:07:51]>> If you think fashion is just the runway, then yeah, absolutely it's elitist. But if you see fashion as more style than just the hottest trend, I don't think it's elitist. I think I I I've said this before, I'm going to say it again. If you can't dress well cheaply, you can't dress well. You have no style if you can't dress well cheaply. If you're relying on, you know how I don't know if you may, you may also do this. I don't do this. When you work with a stylist, they will say, "Do you want to wear look 12 from the YSL show?" And you're wearing it head to toe. That is, I know it's a stylist job, but they're not having to really style anything. They're just taking very expensive clothes and wearing them the way that they're shown on the runway. But if you had a $200 budget and you had a red carpet or an event, >> Yeah. And if you nail it, I respect that so much more than I ever would. You just pulled a lot.

[00:08:42]>> Why isn't that a thing? Why isn't that a thing? That the thing you just introduced, the idea of like this person went on eBay. They pulled the entire look between a garage sale, grad eBay, and thrifting. And it looks incredible.

[00:08:58]I think that's that would be such a such a >> I would love that flex.

[00:09:01]>> I would have love taste and discernment.

[00:09:03]>> I couldn't agree more. I would have loved that as a kid watching people on the red carpet thinking, "You did that yourself?" Like, "You put that together?" I'd be so impressed. When I first started on uh on Netflix, I did a few red carpets and I refused to use their stylist. They give you a stylist budget and I refused to use a stylist. I was like, I'm going to wear what I want to wear. Do you know what Primark is?

[00:09:26]>> I have no idea what it is.

[00:09:26]>> This is It's kind of like a um kind of like a Forever 21 situation. Really inexpensive, fast fashion. I'm not encouraging anyone shop Primark. Um, but it was a really inexpensive suit and I wanted to see if any would one would know the difference between me and anyone else on the red carpet was on a in a suit. And so I bought just this nice simple suit, not nice suit, simple suit that was about $75, not not more than $75. Got it tailored for less than $50. And then went on that red carpet and I was asked so many times, gosh, where did you get your suit from? Gosh, that's a lovely suit. where to get your soup from? And I said, "This is a soup that cost me less than all this cost less than $150. I want to show you that you should be able to do this." Cuz I felt so excluded as a kid, thinking, "I want to look nice. I care about clothes." And if you haven't got $10,000, you can't look nice. [ __ ] Absolute [ __ ] >> What do people mean when they say fashion is a way to express yourself?

[00:10:23]What do you mean when you say that?

[00:10:25]>> It might be something very different for you. I And it maybe is just me that feels this way, so I'm not speaking for everybody here. Okay. But it's it's a message I try and convey. It's my whole career, which is you can choose to just wear something that doesn't feel like you whatsoever. I'm not saying this about you, but you can just put all black on and think, I've at least put clothes on. I don't feel anything in these clothes. They don't represent me in any way, but I put put clothes on.

[00:10:51]For me, as you can see, I always put a look on. Even if somebody else hates it, doesn't matter. It's how I'm communicating to whoever sees me. I really cared about what I was putting on today and this is the version of me that I I would like to present today which is I'm put together. I feel somewhat comfy casual. I don't feel so uptight.

[00:11:11]>> That's I think fashion is the easiest quickest way to express who you are.

[00:11:14]>> I think for a lot of straight men >> Yeah.

[00:11:17]>> when they use fashion as a way to express themselves, they can be made fun of for it >> by that friends. by their friends, >> by people at school, work, or even their own spouses.

[00:11:30]>> Yeah, >> I'll give you an example.

[00:11:31]>> Bina made fun of you, didn't she?

[00:11:32]>> Yes, she did.

[00:11:32]>> Great.

[00:11:34]>> What did she say?

[00:11:34]>> Okay, so look, I used to own a t-shirt from the Simpsons. It was a Bartman t-shirt.

[00:11:41]>> Okay.

[00:11:43]>> I thought what I was saying was, "Hey, I'm telling the world I'm silly.

[00:11:49]>> I'm a little irreverent >> and I love this TV show."

[00:11:52]>> Yeah.

[00:11:54]What she was saying is this is embarrassing.

[00:12:00]>> Yeah.

[00:12:00]>> And many people on the internet have said this about their spouses that wear comic book t-shirts or cartoon t-shirts.

[00:12:10]And to that I say, how dare you?

[00:12:14]Why? Why is that bad? I I need you to to know that I that this is the truth. When I say I don't mind a a a slogan. Okay, maybe it depends on the slogan, but I don't mind a slogan team and I don't mind a comic book strip or whatever it is on your t-shirt, a picture on your t-shirt. Bartman. It was Bartman.

[00:12:33]>> Bartman. Bartman.

[00:12:34]>> Bartman.

[00:12:35]>> Bartman.

[00:12:36]>> Yeah. So, there's Bart Simpson. Bartman was a substory line within the Simpsons.

[00:12:39]So, again, it's And I mean this legitimately, it was a way to express myself.

[00:12:43]>> Yeah. Like, you really cared about the Simpsons.

[00:12:45]>> I was really I really liked the Simpsons. I really like the Simpsons during this particular era of the Simpsons in this particular character within that era.

[00:12:53]>> I'm not I think Bina was wrong.

[00:12:55]>> Why do so many white women want to express themselves through Abindi?

[00:13:00]>> God, that's such a good question.

[00:13:01]Especially at Coachella.

[00:13:04]>> I don't know. I wonder if when they go to the likes of Coachella, they're thinking, I just want to be free and so I'm gonna cosplay as an Indian girl because they seem free. But I really want to say you think our people are free.

[00:13:18]>> Have you met our parents? And so I think that they have a misunderstanding of what a bindi is or any kind of South Asian clothing.

[00:13:27]>> Sure.

[00:13:27]>> I think that they see it as a sign of freedom and expression >> and they are definitely confused. How do you think about fashion cycles? For example, jeans had a flare, then they were baggy, then they were skinny, then they were baggy again. We met when we first met, jeans were skinny >> and now they're >> already skinny jeans when I met you. Um so so it's us I'm sure you know it's usually 20 years. Um however, social media has encouraged us to move through um fashion cycles much quicker than we used to. So it used to be roughly 20 years it's going to come back. I think now it's 10 years it's going to come back. Mark my words, within the next two or three years we will be encouraged to wear skinny jeans again. I can't imagine I'll I'll do that. I think once we hit a certain age, we've already done that thing. So, we learn our lesson.

[00:14:17]>> Yeah.

[00:14:18]>> I'm assuming.

[00:14:18]>> Hey, do you believe in that theory of that everybody dresses in the last year they were cool? For example, my dad still dresses like it's 1993. Now, I would argue he wasn't cool in 1993, but in Nudge's mind, he was cool in 1993.

[00:14:34]No, actually there is somebody I'm thinking of who still dresses the way they always have, but they look amazing. I don't mind if you stick with a look, even if it's the 80s, if you stick with a look because it made you feel good and you're still like working it. It's not just a lazy thing. Like, you're really committing to the bit. Like, if your dad is fully committing to the ' 90s look, it's not just it's just easy. They're my clothes. Like, I put them on. I respect that so greatly. Okay.

[00:15:03]>> Do do you know Justin Throw personally?

[00:15:05]You did a show a movie with him at one point. Do you know him personally?

[00:15:07]>> No, I don't know personally.

[00:15:09]>> He's worn the same style for like 15 20 years. He still wears a skinny jean, which is so not the trend, yet he still looks wicked. And I just think Yeah, because that's so you. You're not trying to be anybody else. I appreciate it so much. I I really do appreciate it so much. What makes something cool?

[00:15:26]>> I don't know. And I don't care about cool. I've never tried. I know myself.

[00:15:35]Actually, here's the thing. I do know about myself.

[00:15:38]I know that I should never try to be cool because I know what my life is. I am a mom. I watch my kids most days. I chose to live in Utah. I chose to not go to fancy events or be seen stumbling out of a nightclub. Like, I live the opposite of a cool life. I watch Golden Girls and 30 Rock most nights. That is my idea of a good time.

[00:16:02]>> Yeah.

[00:16:03]>> So, I'm so the anti- cool that I don't register what is cool and I don't care.

[00:16:08]And if I see someone trying to be cool, I just think you couldn't be less cool to me. Just be okay with being into stamps. I don't care that you're in stamp. I then that's great. If you enjoy it, enjoy it. So, the answer is I don't know because I don't know what cool is.

[00:16:24]I I think what I do is cool enough for me. Can I can I ask about your opinion about something just like this is a macro question? Okay. So, one of the most popular episodes of Patriot Act that was on our show was the episode on fast fashion.

[00:16:37]>> Oh, >> okay. Now, the episode on fast fashion, this is something that has made people mad since the '9s.

[00:16:44]>> This is something that if you mention it to people, they will clearly get upset about it, but it's not going away. Kind of like Tax Evasion or Woody Allen.

[00:16:52]These things aren't going away, unfortunately.

[00:16:55]That being said, people are now more and more aware of its environmental impact, how bad it is for both consumers, labor, all of it. Do you think it will ever change?

[00:17:11]>> No.

[00:17:12]I don't think there's anything you could show people to get them to change their spending when it comes to fashion.

[00:17:21]>> Why is that? my opinion. I I I hate to always make things about race, but sometimes I think it's just appropriate.

[00:17:30]If we were seeing people, let's say Americans, white Americans, because we we see documentaries or whatever, or maybe it's just a post about conditions in certain factories or in certain countries that producing the clothes that um are the fast fashion items that people are purchasing. I think that there's such a disconnect with them thinking, well, they're not even like us. Like that's we've almost dehumanized them because they're not us in in the West. They're not they're not the Americans. They're not the Brits. I think if um a person were to see that this was happening across town from them, it's their own people. the people that they know from the grocery store, from school. I think that that might be the thing that could encourage them to change their thinking of it and and feel more compassion for those people. But I think that >> the thought is always, well, they're people so far away >> problem over there.

[00:18:26]>> Those people are so far away. Yes, they may be going through absolute health to make my pair of jeans, but >> that that's not a human. I understand.

[00:18:34]So it doesn't matter that that's I I wish I could come up with a better answer than but that is when I boil it down I think that's the reason why is because we don't humanized them enough for the for it to matter to those people.

[00:18:46]>> No that's that's a very um >> yeah that's a very real point.

[00:18:52]>> Um the dehumanization of kind of labor that's happening over there.

[00:18:57]>> Uh the people that are participating it don't look like me. I don't know anybody like that. Yeah. It's like when there's a a war or conflict and um and you wouldn't you're less likely to give money or care about them because they're a different race. You don't you don't care that much about the fact that they're Asians that are going through the South Asians are going through this.

[00:19:19]They don't look like you. So why care?

[00:19:22]But if it was my uh it was my fellow country person, if it's a white person in America, they're like, "Oh, I understand your suffering because I'm the same as you. are more inclined to give you >> a donation as opposed to that person in Africa or Asia.

[00:19:38]>> We all know about girl dinner, but have you had dad lunch? The main course is the crust of a PB&J your child has just desecrated. Dessert is a melted Tootsie Roll that you found under the car seat in a minivan, which is weird because you've never bought Tootsie Rolls. So, what is that in your mouth? Things are getting bleak in IKEA Carnival right now. Now, I forgot to eat. I always would forget to eat. I'd feed the kids.

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[00:20:45]That's han.

[00:20:47]Thank you to Hule for partnering and supporting our show. One of the things that I think you've been able to do in your more contemporary work is is talk about your personal upbringing. So, so you did this BBC documentary in 2022 called Beauty and the Bleach.

[00:21:00]>> There was a lot that you talked about that was really profound, powerful stuff.

[00:21:05]>> Thanks.

[00:21:06]>> Um, >> you talked about skin bleaching and colorism in it.

[00:21:10]>> Yeah.

[00:21:12]What did you learn while you were making that documentary that told the story of us? What did What did you learn in that documentary that told the story of our own South Asian identity and the way we see ourselves in culture and society? The thing that I maybe it's not necessarily that I learned, but it just reinforced the fact that I I I I had hoped that things had moved on somewhat from the 80s and '9s.

[00:21:44]But what it it what it showed me and made very clear it's just as bad today as it as has always been. We just did a a much better job of hiding it and making it seem like it wasn't there anymore. Um cuz I think I can't remember if it made it into documentary. you haven't seen the documentary in a long time or if it was just ancillary content. But we did this focus group with people from uh many different groups within South Asia and they were mostly women and it's amazing hearing their stories. They were all young. They were all under like 25.

[00:22:17]Hearing what they go through today, it's exactly as it was just the language changed around it. Um and so that was that was the thing that I learned was that it's still there. But we just found a way to hide it a little bit bit a bit better.

[00:22:29]>> I don't know if you felt this way, but you you you talk about the racism that you went through growing up in the UK.

[00:22:35]You you told a story about you being 5 years old and getting beaten up >> six. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:22:40]>> By adults.

[00:22:41]>> Yeah.

[00:22:44]>> How did that shape your life and the way you saw yourself in the UK? Did that on some level as you got older made you say, I have to leave this place and go to the US?

[00:22:53]>> Yeah. I always knew from a very young age and it was a thing that really pissed my mom off a lot. So, you're from an Asian family. You know that we don't typically move away from home. Actually, I want to make this very clear for the um the your audience who are not Asian.

[00:23:10]British Asians are so different from American Asians. And when we say Asian, sorry, I mean South Asians. In England, we don't differentiate. We're just Asian. Um, I think the American Asian experience is a lot more westernized than the British Asian experience. And, uh, you've been to the UK enough to, I'm hoping I've noticed that there's actually quite a stark difference between us and you guys. Um, when I was a kid and there was so much violence and animosity towards my family, I knew from a very young age, this isn't home. Like, home should be safe. We're not safe here. said, "This can't be our home." And I used to say to my mom, "As soon as I can, I'm going to move from this country. I need to leave this country. I will never feel safe here. You're not safe here. Why did you bring us here?" And obviously, my parents just wanted us to assimilate and just build a life. That's where they had chosen to come to to see success. Um, and so for years, I would say, "I need to go. I need to go. I need to go. I need to get to America. I think that that might be where I might find peace because you didn't have people that look like me on your TV. So, I thought you're not going to know where we're from, so you're not going to know how to be racist to me. And the crazy thing is, Hassan, that's exactly what happened. I came here when I was 17 and no one knew where I was from. I just had this dark skin and compared to white people, dark skin and a very British accent. Got it.

[00:24:39]>> Where is he from? So, did they think you were just like a a vaguely Mediterranean man with a posh British?

[00:24:44]>> That's exactly it. Yeah. Or just ethnically ambiguous. Some people thought I was Mexican. Some people thought I was South American. Some people thought I was from the Mediterranean. They just couldn't place me. No one ever thought I was Pakistani.

[00:24:55]Also, I don't think they knew what that I don't think Americans knew what that was 20 years ago. Yeah. Um, and so actually they do now because we helped broker a peace deal apparently. Um, and so other than that though, they didn't really know what I was. And so I was able to move to a place where even if they were racist, they didn't know how to be racist towards me. And I know that sounds really lame to want that. I'll take that and you thinking, I want to [ __ ] call him something. Where the [ __ ] is he from? I don't know how to hurt him. As opposed to, I know exactly what to say, you dirty py.

[00:25:29]>> Why was that? Why is that word so loaded there? It's just a word that's not used in the US, but for a lot of my friends that are South Asian, this like word was used as a way to bully and beat them up.

[00:25:43]Basically, I can't even tell you what that word still does to me. Somebody called me uh Apache not too long ago after Queerey in England uh and and I thought as stupidly I thought I' I've reached some kind of success. Whatever your idea of success is, I just thought I am successful. I was wealthy. I was on a very successful TV show. My life was in a good place and then I get called a pachy from some scum on the street. My god, what the [ __ ] is this? How is this possible that it's still happening? And it takes you right back and you feel physically sick think sick thinking oh my god no matter what success I see it doesn't negate the fact that so many of you will just see me as that thing which you find disgusting.

[00:26:30]>> Did you eventually find peace and happiness here or >> in America?

[00:26:34]>> Yes.

[00:26:35]>> Yeah. I know that I sound crazy. Let me just say this. I know you probably got >> because you didn't just move to America.

[00:26:40]You moved to Salt Lake City.

[00:26:41]>> Okay. Let me add to that. Don't say that with such disdain. Um, so [laughter] I love Salt Lake City.

[00:26:47]>> I love Salt Lake City. I think it's very beautiful, but I think it's not based on your problem. I don't know if it's the solve that you're looking for.

[00:26:54]>> I think you'll find it is. You don't know. I'm going to tell you. Let me educate all of you who think that think certain things are Salt Lake. Just so you know, I am going to be moving from Salt Lake, but I've been there for 19 years. And if I could stay there for a while so much you left.

[00:27:06]>> No, it's my husband's midlife crisis and he wants us to move and I'm a good husband and so I will make my husband happy.

[00:27:11]>> Were you guys moving here >> to New York? Yeah. Hey, we're see um so um I I >> You're leaving Salt Lake City to move to Madam Danistan. Good.

[00:27:22]>> That's exactly it. That's exactly it. So when I first came to America, I'll try and keep this short for you. I promise.

[00:27:27]I moved to America. My house mate was from uh Salt Lake City. He said, "Do you want to come and check out Salt Lake City?" "Yes, I'd love to. I'd never heard of it. We don't hear about Utah Salt Lake in England, obviously." And so I was like, "Yeah, I'll see what that's all about."

[00:27:40]I was treated so beautifully that first evening by the weight staff that were there at the restaurant when I was out.

[00:27:47]People were just curious like, "Hi, how are you? Who are you? Where are you from?" Cuz it was so not diverse 20 years ago. I was a very rare thing to see.

[00:27:56]And so I was treated so nicely. But most importantly, I was asked out twice that first night at dinner by two separate women. And I thought, "They don't know that I'm Pakistani here. They don't know that I'm seen as a secondass citizen in in in my part of the world. They just see me as a a person. And that I know it sounds pathetic, but that really I it really made me feel something because I'd never felt that in England. And so I I thought, okay, I'm going to try and stay here. They this is my people. Like they they want me here. They care for me here. They don't make me feel like I'm less than here. Um and that has been the case for my entire 19 years. I need you to understand Utah, yes, may be quite Republican, but Salt Lake is really a balanced community and also the more so Utah, I'm sure most of you know, is like the mecca for Mormons and it's encouraged a culture where even if you think something negative about somebody, you're not going to say, "Oh, it's very unlikely that you will say it. Just I've never known it to happen." Um, the crime rate's real low. And so even >> No, I I'm I'm on board. I've been to Salt. Like the thing that I'm really struggling to follow here is that you said you were at a restaurant and two women asked you out.

[00:29:14]>> Yeah. I wasn't dressed as I normally am.

[00:29:16]What are you trying to say? What's your point?

[00:29:19]>> I I don't You don't need to use slurs.

[00:29:22]I've just never been [laughter] in a situation in my life where two different women have based on just me sitting at the >> Isn't that insane?

[00:29:29]>> counter have been like, >> "I went to a Mormon church.

[00:29:32]>> Would you like to go out on a date?" I went to the Mormon church, they call it a ward, for multiple Sundays in a row.

[00:29:39]And every time I got asked out, the girls are a lot more direct in Utah.

[00:29:45]And they are beautiful. It everyone talks about that when they go to Utah.

[00:29:50]They're like, "God, the girls are beautiful." They are. They're really attractive.

[00:29:53]>> Why do all of my gay friends have stories like this?

[00:29:56]>> Don't know. I think you guys are doing it wrong.

[00:29:58]>> What What are we doing wrong?

[00:29:59]>> I think that they can just tell that you're threatening us. [laughter] So, We're just friendly. I just >> What do you mean?

[00:30:07]>> You're not as friendly as we are. Like, also the gay dart in Utah is terrible.

[00:30:11]But I was just friendly and I'd say hi and I was just treating them nicely.

[00:30:15]They were like, gosh, I want a guy that's just going to treat me nicely.

[00:30:18]So, you get asked out. I've always found it really easy with women. I got I've always been asked out more by women than uh by men.

[00:30:26]>> Can I hard pivot a little bit?

[00:30:27]>> Yeah.

[00:30:28]>> Okay.

[00:30:29]>> French fries. [laughter] Look, we we everyone knows you as a fashion icon. Everybody knows you as one of the kindest people on planet Earth.

[00:30:37]>> That's very nice.

[00:30:38]>> But you're now an actor.

[00:30:40]>> Yeah.

[00:30:41]>> And in Delhi Boy season 1 and season 2, dare I say, you are unleashing your internal boggle bun. You are a absolute lunatic.

[00:30:48]>> Yeah.

[00:30:49]>> On camera.

[00:30:50]>> Did you channel Ben Kingsley and Sexy Beast for that role?

[00:30:55]>> No. No. Ben is an absolute icon. No. Um, you're a scary level M boss.

[00:31:01]>> I channeled my brother.

[00:31:04]Yeah, my eldest brother who is uh uh the looney one in my family. He's wonderful.

[00:31:12]We're very close. I love him very much.

[00:31:14]But he was a very aggressive teenager and young man. Now he's just a family man. But he was a a real tough guy.

[00:31:22]Constantly had fights, was always bloodied. Um my mom was couldn't stand how difficult he was. He was just a very violent violent guy. Um and all of his friends were very violent. Um and so getting ready for Delhi Boys at every turn I just thought how would my brother do this? This is how my brother would do.

[00:31:42]>> You and Per are so great in the show.

[00:31:44]>> I love working with that woman so much.

[00:31:46]She was a good friend of mine before the show anyway. But getting to work with somebody you have such great >> Isn't she one of the most talented people on planet Earth?

[00:31:53]>> Love that woman. [ __ ] hilarious.

[00:31:55]Badass.

[00:31:56]>> Yeah.

[00:31:57]>> Charming, >> genuine.

[00:32:00]>> Yeah. Like just a good egg.

[00:32:02]>> She's a scene stealer.

[00:32:04]>> I know.

[00:32:04]>> Both you and her are seen.

[00:32:06]>> Oh, thanks. I loved being in in that show with her.

[00:32:10]>> So, I'd love your perspective on this because you're someone who has seen South Asians represented in media. I think my Asian fellow artists in the UK >> Yeah. had the ability to see brown people on screen way before I did in the US in a more well-rounded way. I'll give you an example. Goodness gracious me.

[00:32:33]You had many different types of South Asian comedians, >> literally >> satists, comedians, standup comics. Like there's actually multiple generations and subg genres of comedians. And I'd love your thoughts on that. coming up as an Asian person in the UK in the 80s, seeing these iconic kind of comedies like goodness gracious me and now here we are in 2026 and you're starring in a South Asian show like Delhi Boys. How does it make you feel?

[00:33:04]>> You know what? Hasn't that is such a [ __ ] mindblowing take?

[00:33:11]>> Well, you didn't you don't grow up watching Goodness Gracious Me?

[00:33:14]>> Yeah, I did.

[00:33:14]>> I watched it.

[00:33:15]>> Loved it. No, but to hear someone say you had such representation where I've always thought where the [ __ ] the representation, but the the thought that you had less is insane to me.

[00:33:27]>> Yeah.

[00:33:27]>> Um cuz there were like two shows like you're right. There was goodness we should >> but it was a whole show and the whole cast was brown. [ __ ] awesome.

[00:33:35]>> But we had that once for like two seasons and then it was like it lasted a year and and we never saw it again.

[00:33:42]Like, but it's it it's fascinating hearing your perspective because I've always thought where were we? Like why were we never on TV other than that one show? I know we had do you know what East is a movie? So for anyone who doesn't know East >> Easter bend it like Becca there's there was a lot that shaped me.

[00:34:01]>> God like >> your take is so [ __ ] wild. If you were to speak to any of the Brit except other than me, they'd have the same reaction saying, "You think we were well represented?" They were like five or six things within 20 years of my existence in England. Um it every time I saw one of those things, I felt such relief thinking, okay, there is a space for us.

[00:34:25]We do get to be entertainers. Did you grow up on Bollywood?

[00:34:29]>> Of course.

[00:34:29]>> Okay. Did you like Bollywood? Yes. Okay.

[00:34:32]I was obsessed with Bollywood and I loved seeing very creative South Asians.

[00:34:36]That really did something for me and I just thought I know we have it in us.

[00:34:40]Why aren't we doing more in Western television? The Brits that I know who are Asian, they all speak English. We all spoke English. Why couldn't we be on TV? Because we are just as talented and we speak the language. What's the issue?

[00:34:52]And so we had like as you said two or three shows >> out of the hundreds upon hundreds if not thousands of shows we had two or three shows. So your take is very interesting but I will give you that we did have a couple and every time I saw them I just thought I I love that we're making >> headway. However, I I need you to remember and and and cast your mind back. Most of it was pushing against a stereotype or leaning into the stereotype. Did you ever do >> It just felt like when I watched the show, it was for me. That's how I felt.

[00:35:28]>> Yeah.

[00:35:28]>> It just felt >> goodness gracious to me, it was for me.

[00:35:30]It was for us.

[00:35:31]>> And it it just gave me that feeling.

[00:35:33]>> Yeah. Yeah. You're absolutely right.

[00:35:34]>> And it was both like whether you're in the group, whether you're out of the group, it was for us. And it it was a huge inspiration then for my I I then had a sketch group called Goatface, which Asip was in. It was me as Aristotle theist who went on to go beyond SNL and Fahheim Anoir and goodness gracious me was a huge inspiration.

[00:35:50]>> Wow. Yes. Wow. Okay. It was iconic. Like every Asian sat down prime time television. We would all sit down with our salon. It was about 8:00 at night and we would all watch. We always stayed home to watch. That's how big it was.

[00:36:04]But that's how important it was cuz it was the only show like it and it was the only one we'd ever seen where we weren't just it wasn't like Bendit like Beckham who just they really pushed a stereotype.

[00:36:16]This is how our girls are. We're not allowed they're not allowed to do this.

[00:36:20]They're not allowed to do that. They have arranged marriages. You can't be a lesbian. Like just stereotypical this is what Asians are. Whereas with goodness gracious me it was very clear they were in on the joke. Even if it was a stereotype they were making fun of the fact that this is a stereotype for our people. It felt very different. So, goodness gracious me, it's so different from the other things that we had.

[00:36:39]Kolkata Chai has brand new tea bags. It is so easy. I literally don't have to think about it. Hot water, tea bag, mug, dunzo. Okay, but what do I think about now?

[00:36:51]But real talk, what is a microwave actually? It hums, it dings, it spins, but what is making the food hot?

[00:37:00][screaming] Screw you, countertop Chernobyl. Hard pass. Okay, just enjoy this moment for one second without Ooh, hello fridge.

[00:37:09]Oh, my chilly little frenemy. [music] I tolerate you, but I do not trust you. Do you remove heat or do you add coals? Ew, I'm getting cold just thinking about it.

[00:37:19]You know, I should make some chai to warm up. Stupid hustle. You're already making chai, but I forgot about it because these tea bags are literally doing all the work. Wait, is it a tea bag or a chai bag or a chai tea? Nope.

[00:37:32]No, no, no. Not going there. Just add hot water, milk, and sweetener of your choice. Honestly, it's the best j in the game. I should go tell someone.

[00:37:43]In chapter 16 of your memoir, you go off on these long rants about the difference between the United States and the UK.

[00:37:52]>> Do I? Gosh. Okay.

[00:37:53]>> Now, can you take us through some of these key differences? You go off about supermarkets and how different they are in the United States versus the United Kingdom. What's your issue with supermarkets?

[00:38:04]>> No, it's not my issue. I love American supermarkets. I go to the supermarket every day almost every day. I don't think I've missed a day. Every time I'm home, I will go to the supermarket even when I don't need anything. After 19 years, it's still a really fascinating cultural experience. I just find it so bizarre that you have a a cereal aisle.

[00:38:27]>> Yeah, >> there is a cereal aisle.

[00:38:30]>> I'm aware >> there's a bread aisle.

[00:38:32]>> There's a bread aisle >> for fake for fake bread. Like it's not like it's >> it's not real bread. Yeah, >> it's it's fake bread.

[00:38:38]>> Yeah, there's a bakery for real bread.

[00:38:39]And I know this I used to work at Safeway, not to brag, but I was employee of the Vans.

[00:38:44]>> Wow.

[00:38:45]>> Supermarket chain.

[00:38:45]>> Wow. Wow.

[00:38:46]>> I was fired.

[00:38:47]>> Wow. Wow. Okay. But >> sounds about right. I work there and I'm aware of how how crazy people can be.

[00:38:53]>> Yeah.

[00:38:53]>> At the grocery store >> it's fas American stores are fascinating. Have you ever been to a British grocery store?

[00:38:59]>> No.

[00:39:00]>> If you smaller >> much smaller even if we have massive ones.

[00:39:04]>> It's not like we've got a whole aisle of that thing. There's just a lot more selection of other things. And so American grocery stores, they're just everyone that comes here. My family does it also. When my family comes to Utah every day, they want to go and just look at the grocery store because it's so weird. I go to the grocery store and I have an amazing time at supermarkets mainly because I don't have to work there. I walk in, it's fully airond conditioned. I don't have to wear one of those goddamn aprons and they don't call me a courtesy clerk anymore. I go, I'm a free man and you can't tell me to do jack [ __ ] Also, the Safeway brand and the larger parent company, Vans, made you shave. You had to be freshly shaven every day and it was [ __ ] up my skin cuz I had acne. So, I stopped doing it and I got fired. So, [ __ ] them. Also, number three, they didn't have the new to cart technology that could Now they have robots that bring the carts in and it's like 108° in Davis where I grew up during the summers. It gets so goddamn hot and I used have to I would just get dehydrated.

[00:39:59]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:40:00]>> Because people are [ __ ] They [ __ ] leave their carts in the middle of the goddamn street.

[00:40:04]>> That's also a problem with American grocery stores. In England, and I think this is the case in Europe, you have to pay for it, but you get it back when you bring it back. Good. So, we don't have that problem there.

[00:40:15]>> Yeah. People are maniacs.

[00:40:17]>> Yeah.

[00:40:18]>> Let's talk about debt. You had this huge rant about debt.

[00:40:22]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:40:23]>> What's your issue with debt? I mean, it's a very American thing.

[00:40:26]>> Yeah. And I'm very British even though I'm now American. Um, I have a real concern with debt. Um, in America, you can't So, you guys run on like a a credit score system.

[00:40:40]>> Yeah.

[00:40:40]>> And I didn't know what that was. I was raised in a family where we weren't allowed credit. Like I'm sure you know as Muslims there's a >> Yeah.

[00:40:49]>> Um like a lot of Muslims don't have mortgages. Um you will do like a rent to buy thing. So that was just the culture and religion I was raised in and so we didn't have debt. Like you'd have debt to a family member. Like you loan like we do something called committee which is you'll loan each other money or you're all part of like this this pot but you you don't owe a bank. Like it's not it's not like that >> where your house is getting foreclosed or there.

[00:41:14]>> Yeah. We don't we don't do that. And so when I was younger I if I couldn't afford something I couldn't afford something like up until the time when I became wealthy when I had my businesses I if I couldn't afford it I couldn't afford it. So I would watch people, my friends, buy all these things and tell me, "God, I've got like 20 grands worth of credit card debt." And I'd be like, "Oh my god."

[00:41:37]>> You'd be sweating. Yeah. You'd have a full panic attack.

[00:41:40]>> I don't know how a person functions like that. How do you live your life knowing that you are in that position because you are buying stuff that you couldn't afford. It just if you need it, I absolutely understand.

[00:41:51]>> I mean, the whole country runs on that.

[00:41:53]>> I know. I know. But I No, but I'm not talking about well I I needed to pay my gas bill or my rent. Like that's different. If you need that, of course, I understand that you have had to run up some debt. But when it's for just frivolous stuff, like I've had friends who are like, I'm going to buy this new leather jacket. How much is it? $1,000.

[00:42:12]Don't you have $20,000 debt on your car?

[00:42:15]Yeah. 21. I'll figure it out.

[00:42:17]>> It's 21K.

[00:42:19]>> Oh, it Yeah, it makes me feel such an uncle about this. Debt is the most American thing. But but >> it's a very American thing.

[00:42:25]>> It's a very American thing. Or how about this? brunches that take place afternoon.

[00:42:29]>> That's not brunch.

[00:42:30]>> What are you talking about?

[00:42:31]>> That's lunch. Americans wanting to go for brunch at 2 or 3. So whenever a friend says, "Do you want to go for or I'll I'm usually the one who always wants to go for brunch. Do you want to go to brunch?" Yeah. Can we do it like 2:00? No. That's lunch.

[00:42:46]That's lunch. Or Lena. Like that ain't That's not brunch.

[00:42:49]>> No. No. No. It is brunch because here's what's happening is I You're get you're sleeping in and you're getting up at 11:30.

[00:42:55]>> Yeah. Then you're kind of like showering and putting about the house.

[00:43:00]>> Yeah. At lunchtime, go.

[00:43:02]>> Maybe you have like a nice coffee. You have like a little bit of something to drink. But then around 2:00 you go, I'm hungry.

[00:43:09]>> Yeah.

[00:43:09]>> And I haven't eaten yet, and I want a meal. That's brunch.

[00:43:12]>> 2 p.m. brunch.

[00:43:14]>> 1 p.m. brunch. It's a very >> You don't get to decide what you call that meal just because you woke up late. That is that's it's just a new name for sleeping in and then eating later.

[00:43:27]>> That's ludicrous. You would have your breakfast, then your next meal would be your brunch.

[00:43:32]>> Why Why do we have to have labels about this? You know, in in South Asian communities, we eat dinner late. Some people are like, "This is late night."

[00:43:38]I'm like, "This is dinner. We're having dinner at 10:30 p.m." And that's totally normal.

[00:43:42]>> No, that's a midnight snack.

[00:43:43]>> We're going to have nahari at 10:30 p.m.

[00:43:45]You don't know. You might be at your poo's house. You might be at your kalas.

[00:43:47]You might be at your chachi. We're not going to have biryani at >> Why would you rename the meal? have that meal. But why are you calling it something it's not? It's not.

[00:43:56]>> Let me end with something that's very important. Very rarely do I get to sit across from a storial expert, from a style icon, and from someone who also understands the South Asian body type.

[00:44:06]>> I recently caught a lot of flack, and by recently, I mean about four years ago. I caught a lot of flack when I made a comment in a GQ interview about trimming my body hair at hotels. I said I like to trim my body hair at hotels the same way the United States treats its foreign policy in other countries. I'll go in there, I'll [ __ ] some [ __ ] up, and then I'll walk out and act like it was never my problem to begin with. And people in the comment section gave me [ __ ] hell. I'm about to say something really controversial.

[00:44:36]>> Go ahead.

[00:44:36]>> I do exactly the same.

[00:44:39]I swear to God, I do exactly the same. I never trim my own body hair in my own home. the response I've gotten from my loved ones.

[00:44:47]>> Wow.

[00:44:48]>> Specifically my wife when I do it at home to keep it tight for her.

[00:44:54]She's disgusted by it.

[00:44:55]>> So I go, you know what? I'm going to take this cuz I'm not going to >> I'm not going to keep this. I'm not going to let I'm not going to let go.

[00:45:03]>> Yeah, of course.

[00:45:04]>> I'm not going to turn into Saddam Hussein when they captured him.

[00:45:07]>> I'm going to keep this all groomed and tight, >> but I'm going to take this into the Hampton end.

[00:45:11]>> Yeah. You >> I'm going to take this to the Best Western.

[00:45:13]>> Yeah. I'm not going to clog my own trains. Get out of here. [laughter] But people in the comments are like, "This guy's a [ __ ] terrorist. This guy is a menace to society." And I had to respond and say, "Look, I leave a tip. I go, here's 20 bucks. I'm sorry."

[00:45:28]>> Isn't I thought everyone does that?

[00:45:31]Is it just us?

[00:45:33]>> It's us. It's just us. [sighs and gasps] But the fact that you do it, Tan, this is a moment of liberation. I'm telling you, man. I've been living with this for years. thinking that I'm an [ __ ] Thinking that I'm a menace to society.

[00:45:47]>> I Okay, wait. Just to make sure I'm understanding, I think clean it up.

[00:45:53]>> Yes.

[00:45:53]>> Like kind of >> kind of is the See, that's the word.

[00:45:56]See, that's the way you're going like that. That's what it is. So, kind of.

[00:46:00]>> So, wipe it up.

[00:46:01]>> Yeah.

[00:46:02]>> Take like take And here's what I'll do.

[00:46:04]>> A wet paper towels.

[00:46:05]>> A wet paper towel. Exactly. Wet tissues.

[00:46:06]Yeah.

[00:46:07]>> So, I'll double up a tissue.

[00:46:08]>> Same.

[00:46:09]>> So, I'll do dry. Boom.

[00:46:11]That'll go, by the way, in the flush.

[00:46:13]Then I'll flush it down >> in the [clears throat] toilet. That's exactly it.

[00:46:15]>> Then I'll get it wet and then I'll >> But I am not doing a forensic deep dive of every single micro beard.

[00:46:24]>> That's what the cleaners are there for.

[00:46:26]>> I don't Whoever's saying that this is wrong, go [ __ ] yourself. Go [ __ ] like, do not come for us. You don't know what it's like to deal with the body hair we have. Get out of it. There's nothing wrong with it. The We're cleaning up.

[00:46:40]We're cleaning up.

[00:46:41]>> I started to feel so guilty. There was several moments in my life where I debated, >> should I go into my backyard [laughter] >> and deal with this mess there? And I literally thought of the neighbors.

[00:46:54]>> That's exactly it. The answer is no. The answer is absolutely no. Why wouldn't Why would you do it in your own home?

[00:46:59]>> Okay, look, the most practical solution that I've gotten is do it in the bathtub.

[00:47:04]>> Do it in the bathtub. at your home, >> at the hotel, and then you can turn the bath. But the problem is is that >> the difference.

[00:47:12]>> It's It's hard to do beard without >> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:47:17]>> A mirror.

[00:47:19]>> Ah, I do it in the shower.

[00:47:23]I do everything in the shower.

[00:47:24]>> I do both.

[00:47:25]>> Okay.

[00:47:26]>> So, I'm doing this over a sink.

[00:47:27]>> Okay.

[00:47:28]>> And then I'm doing other parts of the body.

[00:47:30]>> You wiping up. It's fine. They're the problem. Not I know. I know that we're not the problem here. I know, brother. I don't care how many millions of viewer there are. You're the problem, not us.

[00:47:38]>> Thank you.

[00:47:39]>> There's certain things that I will take the hit on. Not that. Not that. I'm a chic [ __ ] You can call me whatever you want. I am a chic [ __ ] I'm There's nothing trashy about me. That's just fine.

[00:47:50]>> Am I a chic?

[00:47:51]>> You're a chic [ __ ] >> Thank you. [singing] >> Thanks.

[00:47:55]>> I love you. Bye.

[00:47:55]>> I love you, mate.

[00:47:56]>> Yeah.

[00:47:56]>> I want to see you more now, though.

[00:47:59]>> Hurry.

[00:48:03]>> [music] >> Make your daddy glad. You have your last