REMOVING GACHAGUA WAS REMOVING MURIMA! YOU'LL BE "OL-KALOUED" ALL OF YOU IN 2027.Sen.Thangwa DEBATE

[00:00:04]Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.

[00:00:08]As I also contribute to this important bill.

[00:00:13]And this bill is seeking to give powers to the deputy governors, Mr. Speaker.

[00:00:21]And Mr. Speaker, I happen to be a member of the devolution committee.

[00:00:26]And in the devolution committee, we went through this bill.

[00:00:31]And we give our observations.

[00:00:35]And of course, we also give our recommendations, Mr. Speaker.

[00:00:41]But Mr. Speaker, before probably I say whether I'm supporting or opposing this bill, I just wanted to see it to sink in your mind.

[00:00:53]Can you imagine having a deputy governor like Senator Cherargei?

[00:00:58]>> [laughter] >> So now, with that in your mind, Mr. Speaker, you realize you do not need this kind of law, Mr. Speaker.

[00:01:11]Because, Mr. Speaker, the law is very clear.

[00:01:15]>> Senator Thang'wa, I do not want to allow Senator Cherargei to interrupt you.

[00:01:20]I I I I I do not find anything offensive with referring Senator Cherargei in any other manner unspecific as you have done.

[00:01:30]>> Yeah.

[00:01:30]>> But watch the speech that you proceeded >> Thank you.

[00:01:36]>> content, especially in reference to your colleague senator or any other person who is not in this house.

[00:01:41]>> Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker. I'm well guided.

[00:01:45]I'm well guided. Now, Mr. Speaker, I want to give you a bit of the genesis of this bill, because I do understand because it came to the committee of devolution many months ago.

[00:01:59]This bill was supposed to cure what was happening in Meru County then, Mr. Speaker.

[00:02:07]If you remember very well, there were issues of governor and the deputy.

[00:02:12]The deputy governor The governor was impeached about four times and returned to the office.

[00:02:18]And they thought they would bring a bill that would create a co-governor.

[00:02:25]And this is the bill, Mr. Speaker.

[00:02:29]Mr. Speaker, we cannot cure mistrust with a law.

[00:02:34]Just like Senator Methu once told me, and I believe probably he said it on the floor of this house, you cannot force people, and especially politicians, to love each other.

[00:02:45]So, this bill, Mr. Speaker, and I like using analogies, is like the best man of a certain wedding requesting some roles from the bridegroom, Mr. Speaker.

[00:03:00]Mr. Speaker, when you are to be a deputy governor, your work is only one. You are a governor-designate.

[00:03:08]Just in case the governor dies or the governor is impeached. Period.

[00:03:13]And if you feel you're good to be a governor, run as a governor, Mr. Speaker.

[00:03:18]The Constitution, and that's where I want to declare this law, Mr. Speaker, this law is seeking to amend the Constitution through the back door, Mr. Speaker.

[00:03:29]If you read the Constitution, Article 179, 2A, it says, "The county executive committee consists of the county governor and the deputy county governor."

[00:03:44]Already the Constitution is saying. So, why do we say it in this law?

[00:03:48]Why are we saying this law that he should be attending these cabinet meetings? He should be given enough time, prior time. You're actually telling the governor, be writing to the deputy to invite him to the meeting.

[00:03:59]They have their own mechanism.

[00:04:01]Mr. Speaker, if you read the same article, 179 five, when the county governor is absent, the deputy county governor shall act as the county governor. That is the only role the constitution give the deputy governor when the governor is absent. If the governor is present, just go home and rest, Mr. Speaker. This is the constitution. Why are we amending the constitution by telling the governor, the deputy governor, to be a co-governor?

[00:04:35]So, I do understand what they were trying to cure then. And since it was cured, and the person who the law was supposed to help is already a governor, can we just withdraw this bill and say, "If you want to be a governor, just run as a governor, Mr. Speaker."

[00:04:49]Mr. Speaker, the law is already available.

[00:04:54]This law is in the County Government Act. If you read the law, section 32 of the County Government Act, which is being amended by this law, Mr. Speaker, and you can see it has been amended by so many clauses.

[00:05:11]A from A A all the way to, Mr. Speaker, J.

[00:05:19]This law removes one of the fundamental uh sections that the law created when they got to know that the deputy governor is not a co-governor. He only acts when the governor is away. So, if the governor is available, then he can only do what he has been assigned by the governor himself. Mr. Speaker, let me tell you what they remove with this law.

[00:05:49]Section 32 4 of the County Government Act says, "When acting, remember the law says he should act when the governor is absent.

[00:06:00]When acting in office as contemplated in Article 179 5, the one I've just read, of the Constitution, the deputy governor shall not exercise any powers of the governor to nominate, appoint, or dismiss that are assigned to the governor under the Constitution or other written law."

[00:06:21]This law has deleted that clause.

[00:06:23]What does that tell you? They want the deputy governor to start dismissing, the deputy governor to start employing.

[00:06:30]So, we are creating two centers of power trying to cure the problem that was in Meru that probably was cured when they already impeached the governor, but I don't believe they it was cured.

[00:06:42]Mr. Speaker, if you read that section, again, 32 5, "The governor shall not delegate to the deputy governor or any any of the functions referred to in subsection 4."

[00:06:59]So, the law is even telling the governor, "You cannot even delegate that." Now, here we are as a Senate as a Senate, we are now creating two centers of power trying to tell the deputy governor that he can even manage budgets and finances. That is the work of the county treasury.

[00:07:17]You know, if you want to be a county treasury, nothing stops you from talking to your governor.

[00:07:23]And then the governor can make you a CEC for treasury. Nothing stops.

[00:07:26]I am a former MCA and Senator Maazo has told us that we have a lot of experience. I believe in this house nobody has more experience when it comes to devolution than myself. I've been an MCA, I've been a CEC executive in the cabinet, and now here I'm a as a senator, Mr. Speaker. so what I'm trying to say today is that we should not try to legislate relationship.

[00:07:49]Let if they are working together, work together. If they are not working together, somebody can resign.

[00:07:55]You are not supposed to be in an office if probably you are not working. And Senator Ledama, although I don't agree with him in most cases, he has said actually the best thing is to scrap this seat of the county deputy governor.

[00:08:11]And I support if we cannot cure the relationship, let's scrap that. And that is the amendment of the constitution. Let's remove this seat so that if you impeach a governor, let's people be given a new mandate to go and elect a different dep- a different uh governor.

[00:08:29]Actually, so many impeachment that have come here, and you will agree with me, Mr. Speaker, they have been induced by deputy speakers.

[00:08:37]I mean, by deputy governors. So actually, the problem is them.

[00:08:40]Because they want the governor to go so that they can take the seat.

[00:08:44]So Mr. Speaker, as I conclude, I would want to say the problem is more political than legal, Mr. Speaker. And since we cannot cure political problems through the law, let those who want to run as deputy governor know that their boss is the governor. The law gives the governor more powers that he can delegate some if he may. If you remember that uh gentleman who said, it says shall or may. This one says may, not shall.

[00:09:18]Mr. Speaker, so it it depends on what the governor wants his deputy uh to to to do, Mr. Speaker.

[00:09:26]Mr. Speaker, if you look at H on the amendment, it says from time to time appear before the county assembly to respond to questions.

[00:09:36]I mean, nothing him today to appear before the county assembly.

[00:09:42]Actually, the county assembly can summon anyone. I think that is Article 185 of the Constitution. If uh the senior counsel can help me, uh Senator Orengo. But, that is what the law says.

[00:09:56]That anybody can appear. Nobody stops them. What this deputy governors have tried to do, they are trying to get power so that there can be two powers uh centers of power, and they try to because they are unable to impeach the governors. Now then, there can be push and pull between these two people. Now, who will we be summoning to appear before the Senate as committees?

[00:10:20]Will we be inviting the deputy, or will we be inviting the governor? Remember, Mr. Speaker, we have had problem with the county assemblies.

[00:10:30]Whereby we have had two speakers, two county clerks, and even two assemblies.

[00:10:38]Can you imagine what this law would do?

[00:10:40]We will be dealing with these issues where a certain deputy governor has already taken the whole county headquarters to a different place. Now, we have two governors who are dealing with the county. So, I oppose this law, and implore the senator of Meru.

[00:10:56]The problem you tried to cure was cured. So, withdraw this bill.

[00:11:02]And we have only 1 year to the election.

[00:11:04]Then, people can appoint deputy governors who are willing to work together. If you don't work together, and and I heard Senator Senator um for Migori, Senator Eddy.

[00:11:19]He was talking about that removing a governor from the Kuria side is removing the whole community.

[00:11:28]And you know, Mr. Speaker, that's exactly the thing that we are trying to say here when the Deputy President of this republic was being removed.

[00:11:36]Removing the Deputy President is removing Murima. Is removing the whole community.

[00:11:42]So, Mr. Speaker because I do understand I do understand this was supposed to cure something very different.

[00:11:51]And it has been cured. I rest my case and oppose this bill which has been seconded by Senator Cherargey and I will tell you you will be all collared, all of you.

[00:12:06]You'll be all collared.

[00:12:08]>> Senator