Let's Talk The True Cost Of Corruption

[00:00:00]1909 9.3. Good evening to you, city of Lagos. Welcome uh to the last hour of the show. I am Sheriff Cuadri. Uh this show is being streamed live on Facebook.

[00:00:09]Yes, it's streaming live right now on Facebook live. Uh search for Nigeria Info9.3. You'll be able to watch us there. Um it's also live on YouTube.

[00:00:19]Nigeria info on YouTube. You can also watch live there as well.

[00:00:24]Now, two things happened when I was coming up with this particular conversation. Two things [music] either I go in alone or I get somebody to do the analysis.

[00:00:37]But I chose the first option and that's because it will give me the opportunity to break these things down um you know without holding back anything.

[00:00:53]We want to look at what is sustaining corruption in Nigeria. Corruption has remained one of the country's biggest development challenges despite the existence of agencies like EFCC, agencies like um ICPC.

[00:01:12]In fact, successive governments have promised to fight corruption. If a president is coming on, [music] he promises to say we are uh we are zero tolerance for corruption.

[00:01:26]They have a way that they put it. I'm not a politician. So they have a way that they make you believe that when they come in, they are going to fight corruption head on. But we all know the moment they are saying it, we know that we're saying back to send because we all know that something beyond them is behind our corruption problem. It's like you are ill, you are sick, you've tried everything you can to cure yourself. But in our own case, unfortunately, we are not even doing anything to cure the corruption problem because scandals upon scandals upon scandals involving billions of naira continue to emerge. The question is what what exactly is sustaining corruption? What is keeping corruption alive, healthy, kicking in Nigeria?

[00:02:27]I will try to give some answers to that because it may lie in a combination of weak institutions. It may be political interference. You may say that it's delayed justice for corruption cases in court. You may say it's even lack of justice at all from the court. You may say lack of transparency or poor accountability um in our system or maybe even a culture that often rewards rather than punishes corruption.

[00:03:04]Human Rights Watch has long argued that while Nigeria has prosecuted many politically exposed persons in the past, convictions have been very few. I mean negligible compared to the amount of cases of corruption. That's why you hear alleged alleged alleged and you are tired of hearing the word alleged.

[00:03:32]Many cases drag on forever in court.

[00:03:38]Some political office holders have cases in court. They are running for elections. Some are being given government appointment.

[00:03:50]And I'm thinking I'm I'm thinking in my head I'm I'm thinking can we even put a figure to the cost of corruption in Nigeria?

[00:04:00]Is is it possible?

[00:04:03]And I came to realize that that may be very much impossible to do because if we look at major corruption allegations from far back as 2011 till this very year, if you add together the biggest publicly reported corruption cases involving federal state public office holders, Let's let's even break it down a little bit. We're looking at around 6 trillion naira between 6 trillion and 8 trillion naira. Conservatively, this is a conservative figure.

[00:04:46]If you convert that to dollars, that will be about 10 billion to 15 billion and this includes the following cases.

[00:04:57]Remember we are talking about major cases. There are thousands of cases that we may not even hear of in this thing that I'm going to read. I didn't even put the jam one there. The lady that snake swallowed money.

[00:05:12]But let's start from Sambbo Dasuki.

[00:05:16]The Dauuki gate $2.1 billion in arms deal went like that.

[00:05:23]There was a former accountant general of the federation as as well Ahmed Idris's name 109.5 billion naira remember 80.2 billion Salim man is there 33.8 8 billion over 44 billion naira halimu of NSIA investigation is still ongoing on that one I mean this is what we get to be hearing investigation investigation matter is in court he's been tried in court remember Sadia Omar Farukq the what's what's uh what's that uh ministry again ministry of humanitarian affairs Uh uh that's that's our ministry. Mhm.

[00:06:15]37.1 billion naira.

[00:06:20]The matter is still with EFCC Farukq better the same ministry former ministry minister of military affairs.

[00:06:36]She too has a case to answer.

[00:06:40]Her own is about 585 million naira.

[00:06:47]Hundreds of billions of naira linked to the CBN investigations involving Godili.

[00:06:53]Remember the estates in in Abuja over 740 buildings.

[00:07:02]Now he has recently forfeited a few cash billions of dollars in oil sector cases involving Desani Alison Mad both in Nigeria and the UK. The UK she has been cleared in Nigeria not yet.

[00:07:25]What I just reeled out now only represents a fraction of alleged diversions or if you like an amount under investigation. Let's put it that way. These are not confirmed losses.

[00:07:43]But you ma you know that whatever it is that is sustaining democracy or that is sustaining corruption in Nigeria may not allow us to get to the bottom of all of these cases that I just read out.

[00:08:02]the EFCC's former acting chairman Ibrahim Magu remember him he too at some point including Rashid Bawa both former EFCC they were also accused of corruption they both tried they sent to prison were they jailed good your guess is as good as mine In fact, more recently in 2024 alone, EFCC recovered 248 billion naira.

[00:08:48]That was the year over 753 duplexes were recovered in Abuja.

[00:08:54]Who owned this thing? Nobody came out.

[00:08:59]ICPC in 2024 alone recovered 29.7 billion naira. Is Nigeria that rich?

[00:09:13]What do you think all of these monies could have done in our lives as a people, as a country?

[00:09:27]I kept asking myself why is it impossible for us to say this is what is sustaining corruption in Nigeria. We It's almost like Nigeria itself is corrupt. Like the air we breathe, the soil we walk on, everything. It's like the system, you know, a car, the system of a car, many parts of a car play a role in moving that car from point A to point B. It's almost like every part of Nigeria is sustaining the monster called corruption.

[00:10:10]If not, it will not be so difficult to prove a case, a corruption case against anybody, any of these people that I've mentioned.

[00:10:19]It shouldn't be that difficult if a system I mean in Ghana a minister was jailed yesterday or thereabouts if I'm not mistaken because he was doing illegal mining. He was sentenced to 20 years. His name is Bernard.

[00:10:36]Was he a minister? a powerful public figure or something like that, a politician in Ghana.

[00:10:46]So why do we have in our own case many alleged alleged alleged because that's the only thing we can call it. Nobody can prove anything.

[00:11:04]So one can accurately say that since 2011 Nigeria as a country has witnessed corruption allegations involving well over 6 trillion between 6 and 8 trillion that's about between 10 and 15 billion NRA in high-profile office cases alone.

[00:11:23]Now this figure does not include thousands of smaller fraud cases. I mean if you go to FCC that's when you know that there are thousands of smaller fraud cases like this person doing business with that person that person takes the person to EFC goes arrest that person and thousands of such cases that you won't hear in the media there are procurement scams everywhere that you not even they won't even make it but it won't be an issue because it's in the system.

[00:11:58]There are others that are state sanctioned, state level corruption and build that road will never be questioned why that road was not built.

[00:12:21]This means that the actual cost, the actual economic cost of corruption, uh-uh, if we're told, if we if we had somebody or a machine or a system that can put this together, I think the world will end that day.

[00:12:42]And I'm not being sarcastic.

[00:12:46]The day we hear the actual cost of corruption for Nigeria alone, I think the world will would end.

[00:12:58]The moment that information is dropping like this, the world is ending straight because all over the world, they will not believe it.

[00:13:07]How is this country still surviving with all of these amounts being stolen by a very negligent few?

[00:13:23]I'm going to put the question to you now. Lagos, what do you think is sustaining corruption?

[00:13:34]Is it me? Is it you? Is it the people?

[00:13:39]Is it the combination of the people and the system? Or is it the system alone?

[00:13:51]02012770993.

[00:13:55]Our female only line is 02014657190.

[00:14:01]Our WhatsApp number is 0895975805.

[00:14:14]Lagos let's talk.

[00:14:17]Good evening to you.

[00:14:20]>> Good evening.

[00:14:22]>> You see combination of two things.

[00:14:27]One, the justice system has been so weak.

[00:14:34]Two, the people, you know, you didn't even mention the of them all. The one that went and brand a plane and launch it. That is of them all.

[00:14:49]We didn't mention that one. Now, this is how the people are contributing.

[00:14:53]If I have a brother who is appointed into government office, can he choose to live right and serve and come out? Do you know sometimes some of us can begin to stigmatize that don't mind this hugless man, he works in the government for 35 years. He was occupying so and so position and he came out with nothing.

[00:15:17]>> What are you what are you passing down >> today? You see we celebrate people with he gotten wealth and people were asking why did you question their poverty so is a combination of two things and the first one that I talk about the system >> you see a situation where you don't have a stringent consequences >> for misbehavior or anything like this about to continue see one of the um legislators said in one of said most people he has prosecuted before or he's investigating. Yeah. I become his colleague as he became afraid.

[00:15:56]>> Imagine that. Just imagine that.

[00:15:57]>> This title this title allegedly now is almost on almost on 80 to 90% of them in that assembly.

[00:16:08]>> So how do you think it will work?

[00:16:12]It's just like said when you have group of 43 trees and they say they want to choose one person >> to be a policeman among them. Who do you think they will choose? Would they go and choose the righteous? They will choose one of them. Who will also be aiding them to escape justice? That is the situation we find ourselves and it's so pathetic. Two factors. They stigmatize and abuse people who work in government who decide to be sincere. And when they come out, you use it against them. So when others are there and they are stealing, we keep praising them.

[00:16:47]That is why you see people when any of their relatives is appointed to occupy any position, it seems that wow, they've hit jackpot. It's so painful.

[00:16:57]>> Thank you. Thank you, Pastor. Thank you for calling me. I appreciate it. It's 5:24 going on 25. I think I can only manage to squeeze in a message before that break eventually uh comes on. But let me quickly take this message here from Emanuel Moi. Emanuel says as sharif many ministers under Bhari government would have been in prison by now. But for president who allegedly collected their files from BA on the assumption of office it would be difficult to fight corruption in Nigeria. Emanuel thank you for sharing your thoughts. Absolutely already difficult extremely difficult.

[00:17:34]Let's go to break. We'll be back to talk some more.

[00:17:38]>> More news and information coming up.

[00:17:40]We'll [music] be back in a moment.

[00:18:05]Enjoy the new smoking season.

[00:18:29]today.

[00:18:41]on fire.

[00:18:55]That's people's insurance.

[00:19:14]connect with us today.

[00:19:26]Some days it's a little business.

[00:19:38]Every step you savage your history with us.

[00:20:00]goodness.

[00:20:09]Wow.

[00:20:18]It is not between those who stage logic becomes powerfinal of the The question is not whe Oh no, I'm almost out of water.

[00:22:16]Now anymore and drink outside your home.

[00:22:36]>> Soundsc together from wedding to birthday% for you.

[00:23:27]This is just At 6:00 we have the news for you. After the news, we would continue this show until 7 um if I'm not mistaken. Right. Okay. So, um, we're not going to end it at 6.

[00:24:37]That's what I'm trying to say. We're going to squeeze in all the time that we have between 6:00 and 7 to have this conversation. So, um, I'm saying I'm not going to give anybody any time. I just want to hear your submission on our conversation this evening on Nigeria Infos facts. What is sustaining corruption in Nigeria?

[00:24:59]That's that's that's a question, a million dollar question. And I think if we're able to find an answer to that question, I think um we should be on our way to getting out of it.

[00:25:10]I mean cases involving politically exposed persons regularly suffer repeated adjunments.

[00:25:15]You hear jurisdictional challenges. You hear appeals and appeals interlocatory applications move one case to that case.

[00:25:25]In fact, according to a 2026 data fight review of nearly 400 corruption cases involving public officials between year 2013 and year 2026 data fight put this together more than 60% of corruption cases involving big [music] men big politicians solved unresolved cases over 60% and the consequence of all of this is simple.

[00:26:03]It will be free for all.

[00:26:07]People would steal, they will loot, they will rob the people dry because they know nothing will happen.

[00:26:23]I mean, put that side by side with political loyalty where what you have to do is just move to the ruling party and then your sins are forgiven.

[00:26:33]Put that side by side with that.

[00:26:37]All you need do is just defect to the ruling party.

[00:26:42]Then you have protection.

[00:26:48]See, I I had to short I had to shorten my script so that I can give you opportunity because if I should take everything on my script, it probably take me an hour. So, pardon me if I if I chip in one or two things. Huh. Okay.

[00:27:01]I'm back to the telephone. Good evening to you.

[00:27:05]>> Good evening. Um, Mr. Sheriff.

[00:27:07]>> Yes, please.

[00:27:08]>> M from Bara.

[00:27:10]>> Welcome.

[00:27:11]>> Yeah. Chino in his book the trouble with Nigeria provided an answer to that and in his book he said the trouble with Nigeria is simply and squarely a failure of leadership. There is nothing wrong something there is there is nothing basically wrong with the Nigerian character. There is nothing wrong with the Nigerian land climate water or anything. The Nigerian problem is is the unwillingness of these leaders or inability of his leaders to lead by example to take responsibility. That is the trouble with Nigeria. Until we have a leader who will take us to where you look at Peter that we are proclaiming you know you know we are we are we are you know touting today you know conquered greed and all of that. So if we have somebody like that from top to bottom everything will come into shape.

[00:28:03]Thank you.

[00:28:04]>> Thank you Emma. Thank you for calling me. I appreciate it. I'm going to take another call now. Good evening to you.

[00:28:12]>> I can't hear you.

[00:28:13]>> Thank you Chris. Chris my name.

[00:28:15]>> All right. Welcome.

[00:28:16]>> I think it's the the the polo and the politicians like one of the voice notes you always play in your radio station. The politicians are thieves. Let them call them what they are. And you forgot to mention 1.3 trillion.

[00:28:31]>> I I didn't forget anything. I [music] couldn't have been able to mention everything.

[00:28:35]>> Let me in that one and malam yesterday then the other lady find 40 billion or 40 billion jewelry. Look, I was opportunity to work with one PG foreign affairs during Abacha regime during as minister of um um foreign affairs. Let's say for example they allocate 50 million to this man the man will spend 15 and return 35 million back. Do you know what happened?

[00:29:08]>> 2 3 months they remove the man.

[00:29:12]>> So no he's not supposed to return that money. One of my trans woman who work in that ministry was in Lagos. I said I come to Abuja. I come see you. He said that useless man. I said ah how? He said the man block their way. All the way they used to make money. The man blocked it. Lady this woman don't build out for Abuja build for Lagos.

[00:29:30]>> He said the man they useless. I said no this man is doing a good this man will come to hotel here. He go cook by himself.

[00:29:39]>> Bring a government. He said no Chris don't worry let's go by road. I will drive him to Abuja. They removed this man after 3 months they get appointment advisor to Abbacha's wife on foreign affairs because the man for 15 years junior brother where did they come back to Nigeria you know the bring master 626 then v 190 the brother say waiting your bringing concord you know that shag type of >> shing said no as an ambassador I g a big I don't need all those in house only the BQ never build the main building that ambassador they remove the man.

[00:30:24]So we the followers we celebrate these people.

[00:30:27]>> If we reject them with all their wealth, I think all the shame them, all this will stop. But we celebrate them.

[00:30:33]>> Okay.

[00:30:34]>> Thank you.

[00:30:35]>> Thank you too for calling. I've got a call on WhatsApp.

[00:30:38]>> Good evening to you.

[00:30:39]>> Um I will be the one reviewing on behalf of >> Good morning Sheriff. Can you hear me?

[00:30:44]>> I can hear you. [snorts] >> Okay. So we're speaking on corruption.

[00:30:48]It's it's very interesting and to be honest you cannot you cannot listen no sin no sane Nigeria would listen to you and feel okay in fact as I did I did sweat like it is >> I am angry >> I am angry and it's interesting because I had this conversation sometime last year with with a politician here so I I I work well I had no need so about this corruption um I I feel based on my conversation some the research that I've done I realized that there are a few factors why it looks like Nigerians do not care about you know all of this embezzling like to them these numbers are just numbers so one of them we have a literacy problem like across Nigeria not everyone understands and by literacy I don't mean formal education not everyone understands what they what they deserve from a working system or from the government so when when they see of all these things is like sometimes they don't even make sense out of it. They don't it would shock you that some people don't even understand the magnitude when you talk about billions cuz again it's it's been done so much that yeah it's just normal. It's like shock absorber they use to >> so we need more sensitization for a lot of people both north and south that to understand what to what to get from like to understand what they should expect from the government as citizens of that country. The other thing that I that I itemize is something that I kind of parallel with most developed countries and developing countries is the lack of ownership.

[00:32:25]>> Now how do I mean? So in I live in Canada more than 46% of the national revenue is collected from personal income tax. So um if I hear tomorrow that a politician embezzles $2 million I'm already thinking so all my tax >> you already you already know that that guy stole your money do you understand >> my money you understand like so it's the lack of ownership if you check Canada UK US just name it at least on average is about 50% of the national revenue comes from tax so there is this sense of ownership there is this transparency everyone is asking questions why are you approving this oh this is too much why are we spend spending December like everyone is vested in it and that's why when the moment you hear there's a pin missing oh yeah resign get out blah blah blah so that that's that's one way but in Nigeria reverse is the case our top where one of the top um you know source of wealth for our country is oil it's like natural resources and and when it's that way it's like there's there's not we don't have that personal connection with the money says that now our natural resources anywhere they want to me they do and then there's a culture part of it where there was a lady who made it earlier on. He said if your brother becomes a commissioner or a minister, you know that's and I think we've we've heard this many times. So you say, "Oh, you've been minister for 5 years. Look at your village. You've been governor for 12 years. Look at where you come from." That sense of, "Oh, because I'm there, it should favor me first."

[00:33:55]>> Whereas when we don't have a plan, I again I work for the government. I can tell you I um in the last 18 months up until February this year, we've been planning for the next 25 no till 201. I can tell you for word for word >> how many buildings are expected. They already anticipating the population. How many new hospitals do we need to you know take care of the you know growing population? How many police stations?

[00:34:21]How many ambulance? How many jobs we need to generate? So we already know it's on blueprint. So if you like be from Egar South or from Oko Michael you become governor you must stick with that plan and that plan is developed by the people by professionals. So again there is this sense of ownership that we lack in Nigeria that >> things just happen and it's like yeah whatever happen happen when you get there do your own and move on and then the last thing I want to say is exposure. A lot of Nigerians unfortunately we we are not that financially buoyant or maybe let's just say even our passports we are not exposed like if we if a lot of Nigerians have the opportunity to travel to other countries and see how other countries work I'm sure they come back and they would hold their government accountable.

[00:35:07]Now it it can be debated because again our politicians travel and they citizens but they fail to implement it. But I feel like a lot of ordinary Nigerians if they travel and then they see then they know what to better expect and hold their their government accountable.

[00:35:20]Anyways that's what I would say. Thank you very much.

[00:35:22]>> Thank you for your very interesting conversation. Your contribution appreciate a whole lot. Um look there's there's so much there's so much we can unpack. There's so much we can unpack but I will try as much as possible to give um everyone who is calling an opportunity. I [music] also need to give those who are sending messages their opportunity as well for their messages to be read or to be played. Uh those that are [music] dropping comments on Facebook and on YouTube I will try as much as spot. In fact, let's go to YouTube. Let's go take Emmanuel on YouTube says corruption persists because the cost of being corrupt is still lower than the cost of not being corrupt for many [music] people. Um, until enforcement is faster, wages are livable, procurement is open, [music] and elections don't require so much money, the system keeps reproducing [music] itself. It's also why anti-corruption isn't just about EFCC arrest. It's about jobs, education, digital government services, and credible elections. Bottom line, we are enjoying corruption and don't want it to end because most of us would not be able to survive outside of it.

[00:36:34]That's Emanuel's contribution on YouTube. Emanuel, thank you. [music] Aptly put. Appreciate it. I'm going to go now. Let's take a few more calls.

[00:36:43]Good evening to you. Welcome to Hard Facts.

[00:36:45]>> Good evening, Mr. [music] Sher.

[00:36:46]>> Yes, please.

[00:36:48]>> On this corruption discourse, let me start by saying we have to start remaking ourselves first before we think of remaking our society. The change you seek, the change you desire should start with you or from you. In your analysis, S sharif, there's a teeny weeny detail you left behind. I know because of time constraints and that is the scourge of plea bargain. I call it a because it will be the death of what in this country if we continually handle it in the line of corruption with fluffs the way we do now. Why for the life of me would you collect the illegal proceeds of an illgotten wealth >> from a politricster, a politician or a political elite and not meet out punishment across those dividends, those ill gotten wealth and tell him to walk free from a saint or from a sinner rather he now becomes a saint and then he contests for office.

[00:37:56]Can you see what pleen has done for us done against us in our politics?

[00:38:02]Now if you allow corruption exist as a hydraheaded monster because we have allowed it fester amongst us >> it is now endemic fitted properly amongst us and can never be eradicated until we are intentional about it.

[00:38:20]That's why I said before you remake a process or remake something. You should start yourself by remaking yourself.

[00:38:28]>> Don't ask what will it do for me. No, what can I do to change the status quo?

[00:38:33]>> Right.

[00:38:33]>> Corruption in itself is not even the main problem here alone. Mr. Sheriff, >> the ripple effect that this has on our collective body spans into years of retrogression and further improvishment.

[00:38:48]So you ask who do we blame? Fine. Let's blame it on everybody involved. Start.

[00:38:54]Let's blame it on the judge that turns a blind eye and gives bias judgment just because he will cut a share of the loot AND HE WILL ROLL in a ros living in glass houses built for them from proceeds of corruption. Who else do we blame you ask? Blame it on the ITT, the international thief politician possessing a depraved soul who comes into office to loot, to kill, and to destroy the common man, laying up treasury for his children, his concubines, and his extended family. Not caring whose ox is God or who dies down the drain in amassing his illgotten wealth because he's selfcentered. not caring for the welfare of the next person beside him. And finally, blame it on society.

[00:39:46]Society who sees a man or woman as an alien simply because that person has stand for the truth. That person has decided to stand for the truth. They don't want to tarnish their image or their integrity and they say no, I want to be who I am. I want to come clear and not foil, you know, soil my name. But they will ask him what are you bringing to the table or who your integrity where you get who he help. In conclusion, Mr. Sheriff, this getri quick syndrome or die trying would end us all if we don't wake up and smell the coffee and we root out corruption from our >> Thank you. Because it is only when we tell ourselves the truth that the corruption I see, let me root out the one in my front before you remove the log of wood from your brother's eye.

[00:40:37]Have you sought or tried to remove the little embellishment in your own eyes?

[00:40:43]And until then, will we say yep, we want to read or be rid of corruption. Good evening, sir.

[00:40:48]>> Good evening, Mrs. Oully. Thank you.

[00:40:52]It's 5:48 on the clock. Um I mean look I couldn't I couldn't it's it's impossible for me to finish what I have prepared for this conversation.

[00:41:05]Um so you're very much open to if you're very much open [snorts] to adding one or two things [music] to this conversation.

[00:41:14]It's it's uh it's an exercise that I feel that we all should be prepared to have [music] this conversation. I mean I mean really really prepared. If [music] you have to do a quick research uh before you call me, do it. If you have to itemize what you want to say before you call me, itemize first before you call me. I'm not going to give you [music] time. I'm not restricting anything. Uh we're going to have this conversation until 7. Um so be prepared.

[00:41:42][music] Come prepared. Call me when you are prepared.

[00:41:45]Talking about being prepared, [music] a lot of uh public office holders uh went into office not preparing for anything but one thing only, how to steal.

[00:41:57]Abraashid Maya, remember him? The pension boss. He was former chairman of the pension reform task team 2016 to [music] 2020.

[00:42:10]Remember that case? Remember the Koi apartment cash discovery?

[00:42:17]What happened to that money? To those monies? $43 million, $27,000 and [music] 23 million naira from one apartment in Kui.

[00:42:28]Remember the PNID arbitration situation in 2019 when some Nigerians colluded, they connived with an international company, so-called international company to bleed this country.

[00:42:48]Remember that. Remember [music] how well we fought to get out of that case?

[00:42:58]the case the cases the the the it goes it goes on the list is endless let me take some messages there sharif what is sustaining corruption is poor living conditions most Nigerians cannot do anything in [music] life without pay uh that is uh the comment here I'm going to quickly go to YouTube [music] this comment here on YouTube um the good guy on YouTube says I can't agree more with a caller from Canada. So much said in a short time. Sheriff, please replay that audio and realize how much we are not doing. My god, that's a good guy who is chiming in. I have about 3 minutes left. We're going to take this call that will take us through the break. Um, good evening to you.

[00:43:44]>> Good evening, Alaji. Uh, this is Adid from London. Okay. Um I I like this topic you were discussing this evening and um you know I think all has been um said like all the aspect of the cause of corruption has been said by the previous scholars I've called so far but I just however I just wanted to add to say that another factor that I think is responsible for this is you know uh the decline in our societal values over the years. You know there's a decline in in [music] our cultural you know societal values over the years. You know back in the days as we were growing up we used to look up to you know people that you know they wear integrity you know they wear uh honesty as badge of honor you know in our local communities you know but you fast forward to the present you will find out that things are not you know that way anymore. So now we you see us celebrating you know crooked people you know and often times I think we also mistake being crooked for being smart and that has yes and it's sort of embedded in us >> so and it's a big problem you know I wish I I have a solution I wish I have methods at which you know we can you know tackle this u menace >> head on but I don't I'm sorry >> no it's okay Don't be sorry. Don't be sorry. Thank you, my good brother, for calling. I appreciate it. The fact that you called in to contribute. It's it's something. It's it's a it's a movement.

[00:45:21]It's a [music] step. Uh good evening, Sheriff. The major reason is because there is no consequence management.

[00:45:27]Again, is interference of the man at the top. Once it concerns allies, then the courts and defense lawyers who make money from such cases. Chima sent that in. Uh Chima, thank you. Let me take another comment very quickly. This is Taiw and Taiw says, "Good evening, Sheriff. To answer your question, what is sustaining corruption in Nigeria is greed, uncontrollable desire for material things by Nigerians and lack of heavy consequences against the perpetrators of this evil in our society? Can any one of these corrupt people go to China and do this? It's unfortunate." That's Taiw who sent that message in Taiw. Thank you. I've got a note here. Can I Can I Okay, I think I can.

[00:46:04]>> Y, my name is Adini from uh Mr. Yu. Sorry. My name is Aden from you know what is actually sustaining corruption is the lack of political will by our you know leaders leaders in the past and in the present you know what is sustainable in Indonesia in Singapore in all of those in in even in China >> you try it you are gone for it >> so when there is no no adequate punitive mayor somebody will steal money steal 1 billion you say you should go and 1 million who who would prefer to steal that 1 billion and then go and you know say you are doing play bargaining doing all sort of things lack of political will if you do anything you know they will not vote they will not put you there Mr. Bye. Please, please, >> it's okay. Sorry. I know.

[00:47:04]554. I've got less than 30 seconds left.

[00:47:07]Let me take this [music] message on YouTube. Um, AB Daniel Ibuka on YouTube says, "A simple answer to your question [music] is impunity. Politicians and the people do wrong and go free and we [music] take it lightly." Um, Abukat, thank you for sharing. Let's go to break now. We'll take you through some commercials, bring you the news, then we would come back and continue with our conversation. Don't go away.

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