Britain Is Sleepwalking Into Disaster | Lance Forman

[00:00:00]Britain has now reached a point at which we spend more in welfare than we raise in income tax. It's madness. It's completely [music] unsustainable. He didn't mention welfare. He didn't mention net zero. This [music] is something that's killing our economy.

[00:00:15]You know, they're using our using our system to take control and then, you know, actually [music] remove democracy once they've actually used it to to to seize control. The these are these are current problems. Uh they could be ongoing. Hello everyone and welcome to another episode of the Western Spirit from Israel. I'm Ariel Whitman and today with me I have with someone very special, Lance Foreman. Lance is an entrepreneur, a former member of the European Parliament and one of the UK's most outspoken commentators on business, politics, and free speech. And Lance is best known obviously for leading the historic Foreman family smoked salmon company, which I think actually brought smoked salmon to the UK. Um, and Lance could tell us about that, although that's not the main focus of our conversation. So, Lance, it's an honor and privilege to speak with you.

[00:01:05]>> Well, very glad to talk to you too and to your amazing audience.

[00:01:09]>> Thank you so much. So, let's start off with you are one of the I guess most identifiable Jews in the UK. And I would like to talk to you. I was just in London about a week ago. And every single Jew that I spoke to, and it might not be obviously representative of all Jews, said to me that they have definitely felt almost physically in the UK, a sort of lowering of their safety, their feeling of physical safety, but also um I guess the right word would be safety in their place in society, in British society. um the it's almost acceptable to say bad things about Jews amongst polite society where as it used to be frowned upon and so people who even had these opinions about us were almost ashamed to say them but now it's out in the open. So how would you characterize you and other Jews in the UK and how you are feeling these days?

[00:02:10]Well, you know, I I'm a proud Jew and a proud Zionist, and I I think it's important uh to be proud and to to, you know, to stand out and, you know, say who we are and not be afraid. You know, our enemies want us to be fearful. Um so, you know, being fearful is just giving them sucker. Um you know, we people respect us if we stand up for what we believe in. Uh it's quite interesting actually. Uh I I'm not wearing my kipar now as you are Ariel.

[00:02:43]But uh I I wear I wear my kipar uh daily. Um twice a day. Once when I go to shaw because I I'm going to shaw every morning. Um and the other time I wear it is when I'm on the tube and I travel on the tube pretty much every day and I deliberately make a point of just keeping my kip on for the tube journey.

[00:03:03]And I have to say I haven't experienced uh any issues at all. Um, you know, it's uh people are people are afraid, but they shouldn't be afraid. Uh, you know, it's a slippery slope. Uh, we've got to stand power because I don't think that um the majority of people in Britain are anti-semitic. You know, there may be anti-semitic undertones, but uh I I think there are pockets of it and obviously it's growing in certain elements of our community. And yes, the the the um you know, the two two and a half years of uh weekly pal Palestinian protests or whatever you want to call them, hate marches um have have unleashed, you know, they that they've let the genie out the bottle to some extent. But I do think the vast majority of uh of people uh find that quite intolerable. And I'll tell you what's really interesting. Um so I I've been very active on Twitter uh for the last 10 years. Um, I've got quite a lot of followers, not massive followers, but you know, not doing too badly. Um, and over that 10 years, the first five of those 10 years, most of my tweeting uh was about Brexit and the fight to leave the European Union. And in the the most recent five years, most of my tweets have related to Israel and anti-semitism.

[00:04:25]The amount of hatred that I have received personally on anti-semitism on Twitter pales into insignificance to the amount I got on Brexit. Much more hatred on Brexit than on anti-semitism. And when I tell people that that they're quite pleasantly surprised. Yes. Well, all these things are so great. So why are we even talking? No, I'm joking. Um, [laughter] but let's so I guess when you say pockets of Jew hatred and Israel hatred, we have to start off with the current party that controls your country political system and the fact that they feel that even if they themselves aren't, for example, anti-semitic or whatever, and I presume most of them are not, they feel a need to knee-jerk almost react to be against anti-Israel.

[00:05:17]They feel a need to plate and sort of be nice to the Israel haters. I think in the last election, you can tell me there were a bunch of MPs that were elected independently just because of the Gaza situation. So those are obvious geographical pockets of Jew hatred.

[00:05:34]>> Yeah.

[00:05:34]>> Because these are literal MPs that are not run members of parliament that are not running on making their communities safer, bringing more jobs, whatever usually politicians run on. They're literally running on we hate Israel, we want Gaza to be free, whatever the rhetorical um aspect they're taking. And then you have obviously the new the Green Party which has morphed, it seems to me, from a environmental party to a sort of um gay transislamist party.

[00:06:05]>> Yeah.

[00:06:06]>> Which is gaining a lot among younger voters according to the polls. And then you also have um I think inside the Labor Party itself a sort of backbench or contingent of people who don't really like us. So I mean everything you said is I assume right and true but it's very hard to not see these undercurrents inside British politics coming through what we would call um I guess society where you have large pockets of Islamists or anti-Israel people and then that translate into votes which makes politicians more sus susceptible to not liking the Jews, so to speak.

[00:06:51]>> Well, what what our enemies have done and and quite successfully is they've tried to separate um Zionism from Judaism. Um and sort of say, well, you know, we're not anti-Semitic, but we just don't like Israel. Now, quite frankly, the two are completely inseparable. Um they are totally inseparable. you know, why would you obsess about the Jewish state only um and not talk about every other country on the world that is committing really grave uh um well actions what whatever they happen to be doing whether it's China or in Rwanda or Russia or or or whatever um they obsess about Israel and it's very clear in my mind that uh that that is purely driven by anti-semit anti-semitism some of them know it some of them don't even realize what they're doing uh But they're they're falling for it and and some Jewish people are falling for it too. Um you know, particularly those on the left, younger ones as well on campus, usually usually people that are pretty ignorant and don't really know very much about their Judaism. You know, you only have to uh you only have to read the the the daily prayer book, the SID, and you you know, every prayer is about, you know, Israel.

[00:08:08]It's um you know, it's >> it's it's it's ridiculous. We you know in in Schul every week we say a prayer for the uh for the royal family. Um and uh the final line of that prayer is and may the redeemer come to Zion and let us say amen. You know we are praying for Zion all the time. So to sort of say that Israel is not part of the Jewish story is ridiculous. It has been forever and it will be forever and this separation is just you know >> but also let me just interrupt you for a minute. You're saying that that is the rhetorical trick they're doing the slight of hand say we're not against Jews were actually against Zionists correct whereas like 90% of British Jews I assume are Zionists. So you're against 90% of the Jews. I wonder why. Um, but I would also say that I think a lot of them are openly anti-Jewish, especially the Islamist contingent where they will literally say we will kill all the infidels and all this kind of stuff. The interesting thing about that is that their allies to the anti-Zionist movement are infidels themselves and sometimes even worse infidels than just a random Jew. Meaning they're gay and lesbian group.

[00:09:23]>> It's a stepping stone area. It's a stepping stone. you know, they they'll come for us first. And uh >> Exactly. No, I actually think they will come for I actually think they'll come for the leftists first. Meaning, if you're a Jewish gay person, openly gay, trans, whatever, you are worse than me and you, I think, for these people.

[00:09:40]>> Yeah. But this is this is a this is a naivity in our own community and and this is not this is nothing new. You know, this has happened through history.

[00:09:49]You know, in the early 1930s in Germany, uh not necessarily the leftists, but you know, Jewish people were well integrated in society and they thought, you know, nothing, you know, what can possibly happen to us? Um and um you know, if we if we don't learn the the lessons of history, it would be madness. And I think we are, you know, I think people are concerned. You know, people are talking about leaving the UK. Um and in a in a sense it's good that people are alert to this. Um the the big difference of course between now and the 1930s is that now we have somewhere to go. Uh we have Israel. Um if you know if we see that as a last resort rather than Miami, [laughter] uh >> but even Miami can go bad.

[00:10:37]>> Miami could go bad. You know that the uh the uh the woke rights are growing in support in America. And these things are very fluid. I actually think that um I I I I'm not as immediately cautious about the UK and I don't think I'm naive. Um I I'm not immediately cautious about the UK as some people feel. Yes, there is certainly uh a a fast growing Muslim population. And I'm not saying that all Muslims are anti-Semitic, but you know, even if say 25% of them are, and it's a huge number, that's still a very large number. And you know, Muslims outnumber Jews in the UK by about 20 to1 already uh with a much faster population uh growth rate. So you know the the the long-term uh could be problematic. But again, you know, so much depends on what happens in the Middle East itself. you know, if Iran falls, if the Saudis come on board in the Abraham Accords, you know, the Abraham Accords have shown that Jews and Muslims can be close and can can be at peace with one another.

[00:11:43]Um, so the things are fluid and um I I think there's been, you know, a wakeup call in the UK, which is why I'm not as fearful as some people. And I don't think that the wakeup call is just about the growth of Islamism in the UK. I think the wakeup call actually came in 2016 with the Brexit vote.

[00:12:03]>> Yes. Well, we'll talk about it in a minute about Brexit because I think that can be a separate topic and then we can like connect it to everything we're talking about now because I I think it does show where we're going and what the people are worried about and what they would like to see in the future. But I guess the an interesting thing you mentioned is that actually the UAE said it doesn't want to send students to UK universities because they were too radical. So I mean when you come to a place like that you know you need to make fixes quickly right?

[00:12:34]>> Uh yeah I mean there there is there is a big problem on campus. Uh my wife actually is the chair of stand with us in the UK. Um and so we're we're very aware of all the issues there are on campus and in schools. But you know the the it's not just there that the uh the the Muslim Brotherhood and their their views have have you know they they infiltrated much of um the British uh bureaucracy. Uh the Home Office uh has a problem. The Foreign Office always had a problem. I mean the the British [laughter] foreign office has always had a problem.

[00:13:12]>> Those those whailing Jews as they used to call us. Um but you know it's now in the foreign office, the education department, uh justice departments to some extent the police. Um whether there's anti-semitism in the police, I don't know. But they they certainly, you know, there was a in the UK there was a problem with policing going back 20 years ago. They were actually they were racist. They were anti- sort of black and anti-immigrant racist. And now they've completely overcorrected and they've gone so woke they've gone over to the other side. Um and Jews are now feeling the brunt of it because they are so you know pro um uh Islam and so many of the the mayors which control many of the police forces and local councils are are Muslim run.

[00:13:59]You the the uh the Muslim community have uh you know they've been very good at sort of uh taking local control in cities around the UK.

[00:14:09]um and you know very influential. It's called entreism. You know they're using our using our system to take control and then you know actually remove democracy once they've actually used it to to to seize control. So um the these are these are current problems. Uh they could be ongoing but as as I said before I think there is a wakeup call and people are starting to say enough is enough. Yeah. Um, and we might see in the next election a reversal.

[00:14:39]>> I hope you are right. I want to ask you another thing. So, we had the a terrorist attack in the synagogue in Manchester on Yum Kipur.

[00:14:47]>> Yes.

[00:14:47]>> And I remember that.

[00:14:51]Well, it happens every time that every time there's something where Jews are attacked, you will have the political left, which in the UK controls the country, and they'll come out and say, "We under no certain terms, we condemn anti-semitism in all its forms." But they won't say it like that. They will say, "We condemn anti-semitism and Islamophobia in all its forms." They always seem to have to put the word Islamophobia together with anti-semitism.

[00:15:21]>> Yeah.

[00:15:22]>> But if there is an attack, which is actually pretty rare, on Muslims, they will never put an anti-semitism into the Islamophobia equation.

[00:15:31]>> No. So why do you think that is that they feel a need almost to always make >> even when it's an Islamic terror attack on Jews to say well actually this is part of the broader Islamophobia and anti-semitism issue. Why do they always have to >> Jews don't count? [laughter] It was the same, you know, it was the same during Black Lives Matter. You know, when Black Lives Matter was happening, you know, you had some people saying, "Well, actually, all lives matter." And they're saying, "No, you can't do that because you have to recognize the the the the black problem." But when when it's Jews that are being attacked, they say everybody, you know, Islam as well. So, we are treated uh we are treated differently, you know, it's politically it's, you know, it's clearly a numbers game. we don't have the the influence, you know, that's that's one of the the challenges of democracy is it's purely numbers and it's uh that count and you know we're out we're outnumbered in the UK. Um so we have to find other other ways to uh other ways to address the the problem and uh but but but but but you know this this problem doesn't happen in a vacuum you know it's coming from somewhere it's funded you know on on on October the the 7th on the night you know on the night of the massacre in London there were protests or rallies rather than protest there were rallies in support not protest celebrating ating it and you know there were people there thousands of banners you know how do you suddenly produce banners within a few hours to to hand people >> this is all as I say this is organized it's funded most of it I'm guessing is coming from Iran um and so you know also >> yeah well Qatar I think is problematic too um but um but you you've got to deal with the root of the problem the Muslim Brotherhood as well um And prescription isn't it the answer either. I mean prescription obviously helps but you know we we've already prescribed Hamas and Hisba in the UK and yet people are still going out with banners that are supporting Hamas and his father which is a criminal offense under the terrorism act. You know that it's imprisonable up to 14 years but the police are doing nothing. So prescriptions you know just because they're prescribed doesn't mean you're actually dealing with a problem.

[00:17:54]Uh they have to deal with a problem.

[00:17:56]They're they're they're fearful because of I think partly because of the numbers, but if we don't get to grips with it, it's going to be a problem for the whole of the UK, not just for the Jewish community. And certainly, you know, the left obviously isn't waking up to it. Um, but the the the right is and the Conservative party. I was just uh a couple of days ago at the Conservative Friends of Israel uh lunch uh where Kem Baitnok uh spoke. She's outstanding and she completely gets it and she doesn't have to be educated on it. She just gets it naturally. Uh but there was an MP called Nick Timothy uh who spoke and he addressed this problem very directly headon and uh you know they understand the problem and they know it's a problem that needs to be dealt with.

[00:18:42]Do you agree that the at this point the Labor Party is totally lost for Jews, for Israel, for even I would say the UK in terms of being a patriotic um entity? It seems that they're almost ashamed of their own country. Some of these people they are, >> but but also on the Jewish and and Israel issues, they are totally at this point captured by their crazy base. They are I mean they they have no moral compass whatsoever and they are completely incompetent as well. Um so I mean you know perhaps it's better that they're incompetent with no moral compass.

[00:19:20]>> Yes. [laughter] >> Exactly.

[00:19:22]>> Otherwise they could be quite dangerous.

[00:19:24]Uh we we now just have uh a new leader.

[00:19:29]Well he hasn't been elected yet but he's about to be this guy called Andy Bernham. and uh they you know some people think he's the uh the savior but I can't personally see that happening.

[00:19:40]The the the only way I think he'll win the uh win an election is if England win the World Cup and there's a feel-good factor and he suddenly calls an election. Uh but but I think um I think that the Labour Party have done what the Labour party always do that you know that they come in and they just destroy the they don't understand just basic economics. There is no there is not one member of the cabinet who's ever worked, you know, in business, in commerce, in the private sector. Not one. And that's a problem. You know, they think that government creates growth. They don't realize that it's business that creates growth.

[00:20:16]>> Wait, I want to get to you on the business front because I think it ties in with the Brexit. you keep on going jumping ahead, but um so um 10 years ago, >> yeah, >> uh I think last week when we're recording this was the actual uh anniversary of Brexit.

[00:20:32]>> Yes.

[00:20:32]>> Which shocked the world and was a sort of precursor for people of American descent as I am for the Trump win at the time. It was both Brexit shocked us and then right after that Trump won against all the odds. The New York Times gave Trump like a 90 Hillary a 90% chance of winning. Trump destroyed all these odds.

[00:20:51]Brexit destroyed all the odds. Um, and it sort of became a revolt against the British elite, I think, in retrospect, even at the time maybe. And you were at the forefront pushing for this, fighting for Brexit to then be implemented um throughout the year. So, looking back and looking forward obviously, what where do you think we are? Uh because a lot of people where I am look at Brexit and say to even right-wingers in Israel when we talk about Brexit, what a mistake the British did. Look at their economy. Look at their this. So what would you say to those people and what were the mistakes that were made following Brexit?

[00:21:30]>> Uh well um I I certainly don't think it was a mistake at all. Uh the way I characterize uh where we are is that uh you know when we voted for Brexit and actually left the EU, we'd sort of unlock the door, but we haven't left the room yet. You know, we're we're still there waiting to leave. And we should have left the room. Of course, we should have done u but uh you know, we don't have a political establishment that really believes or believed in it. And and that was again part of the problem.

[00:21:58]You know, Britain had been divided on Europe for about 20 to 30 years. the country was divided and that's why we had a referendum. We had a referendum to sort of say look we can't go through this division anymore. We're going to have a vote. Let's see which way the country votes and then we will go that way. A and so that's what happened. We had the referendum but David Cameron who was prime minister at the time couldn't cope with the fact that he was on the wrong side of it. So he resigned. Theresa May came along and what she then saw, she said, "Oh, look, the country is divided. Everybody's at our throats. What we need to do is try and make the Brexit work for all sides."

[00:22:37]And and so she just carried on the division. What she should have done was say, "No, no, no. We voted for Brexit.

[00:22:43]The countryside and that's what we're going to do and negotiate, you know, a strong deal with the EU." But she she never really believed in it. She, you know, she was the remainer and so the whole thing was a complete hodgepodge.

[00:22:55]was, you know, it was a mess. Um, and uh, you know, pe people say, well, the people that voted for Brexit never had a plan, but the people voted for Brexit were on were on all sides. And, um, people had different reasons for voting for Brexit. You know, some people believe that we need to, you know, legal and, you know, decisions. We need sovereignty. We need decisions made about the way we, you know, um, uh, run our government, run our country made in the UK, not made in Brussels. Some people were very concerned about immigration. Some people concerned particularly in business um about all the petty bureaucracy that came from Brussels. So people had all sorts of different reasons for wanting to leave and it wasn't always black or white. You know there were reasons good reasons to stay there good reasons to leave and so on. So you you know you had to weigh this thing up. But um I think the number I think I mean when when you sort of put it all together um I think the main reason why people voted to leave was that things and I'm not just saying Europe but just things weren't working for them. You know you you had the in the entire political class both of the mainstream political parties saying this is a bad idea. You had the entire media media class saying this is a bad idea. And the British public were hearing this from everybody and they said, "You know what?" They stuck two fingers up at everyone said, "No, we want change. We want this." And um and that's why they voted for it and they never really got the change. And but we're in a position now where the change could happen. And there have been certain things that have happened since 2016 um where we have used our independence.

[00:24:38]One of them was the vaccines. Uh you know, we weren't tied into uh Europe. uh uh Europe's procurement uh um uh on on the vaccines around the time of COVID.

[00:24:50]Um we have an independent sort of um you know foreign policy. We we were able to support Ukraine uh well before Europe sort of came on board. Boris Johnson was quite instrumental in that. So there have been things and even since uh 2016, Europe has introduced many many more regulations on uh AI and on biotech and we haven't done that which means we're far less constrained and much more able to grow. And when you hear people say that the economy, you know, our economy has done badly, they're right. It has done badly, but actually it's done better than pretty much every other economy in the EU. They've all done badly. We've done better.

[00:25:28]>> Well, that's not an achievement. Good.

[00:25:30]But we've done better than Germany um you know since 2016 since the referendum votes. You know if you listen to the politicians around the time of the referendum um you know that you know you would think that you know the sun wouldn't shine and the grass wouldn't grow and Britain would literally you know dissolve into the sea. You know it was they were talking about catastrophe.

[00:25:53]Um and that just hasn't happened. It hasn't been great but it certainly hasn't been any worse than you know have have we remained it.

[00:26:02]>> Okay. So we are um coming Kirst is if I'm not mistaken the most unpopular prime minister since they started polling this question in UK history.

[00:26:15]>> Yeah.

[00:26:15]>> So I'm not I'm I'm sure of this.

[00:26:19]>> Yeah. He broke the record. He's so everyone hates him. This new guy is coming in. He looks he he's more charismatic, it seems to me. But his ideas are pretty much the same. He has this new thing where he's going to move another Downing Street to another city, but in terms of the actual policy, I don't think there's much difference. It doesn't really matter where you're making the policy. It matters, I think, what the policy is.

[00:26:41]>> That's just my maybe I'm too much of a simpleton, but that's what it seems to me. Um, so there's going to be at some point in the next year's an election.

[00:26:51]You have two parties that seem to be vying for the opposition to from the right. I mean, you have the restore party. I'm not sure how popular they are, but the two main ones are the the conservatives and reform. So, you mentioned the conservatives, Kami Benedak, being very supportive of Israel, of the Jewish people. Um, just on an instinctive level. Um, you where are you exactly? because Nigel Farage I I assume you know him from when you were in the European Parliament. So you know him way back um even probably before that. So what kind of where do you think where are things standing now and where will where do you where are you going to support? Well, f firstly, let me say something about Andy Bernham because um he he delivered his first sort of major speech uh a few days ago sort of setting out what he was going to do and it was just the most extraordinary speech. You know, he didn't mention um he he didn't mention the biggest problems that our country faces. He didn't mention immigration in his speech at all. He didn't mention welfare uh in his speech.

[00:27:59]And why uh you know for your listeners and uh viewers why welfare is so important is that Britain has now reached a point at which we spend more in welfare than we raise in income tax.

[00:28:12]It's madness. It's completely unsustainable. He didn't mention welfare. He didn't mention net zero.

[00:28:19]This is something that's killing our economy. We we pay somewhere between four to six times the price for electricity that Americans pay. And we don't have to do it. We have North Sea oil. We have shale gas under our feet.

[00:28:33]Some people have estimated that we have enough shale gas if we fracked it to write off our entire national debt. And instead politicians are just looking at the ground saying, "Nah, let's just leave it there. It just it doesn't make any sense at all." He didn't mention, you know, we're at a time when the the world is probably at one of the most dangerous points it's been in the last couple of generations. He didn't mention foreign affairs. He didn't mention the Middle East. He didn't mention China. He didn't mention Russia. So, you know, all he talked about was uh you know devolving power to to local mayors and uh local government because he was a mayor. So, he thinks that everyone should be mayors and and that's the best way to get stuffed up. A and uh you know that's what he talks about. And you know what's really funny about uh these these guys on the left? They talk about devolution and local power and yet they want to be in Brussels. They want to be controlled by Brussels but they want to have local power. So it's completely contradictory. Doesn't make any sense whatsoever. But coming on to uh >> but also sorry for interrupting but also one thing that I found interesting and and I always do is that they want to bring they'll say to you we want to give more power to the people.

[00:29:44]>> Yeah.

[00:29:44]>> Whatever that means. But then they literally put on the people like burdensome regulations, laws, bureaucrats that are trying to control every move of theirs. Even before we talk about the European Union, his plans, I would I'm going to bet I wager as you guys say that even if it was more localized, he would find a way his party would find a way that locally people would be hammered by government overreach. So, so it doesn't really matter who and where. It matters the what. And that was nowhere, like you said, in the speech.

[00:30:20]>> Yeah. They want to control the people.

[00:30:21]They're socialists, you know, they don't want to give power to people. They hate the people. They hate >> they want to control it.

[00:30:28]>> Um and uh I said at the beginning, you know, they seem to think that government can can create economic growth, which of course it can't. Um so so you know the the the fundamental understanding of economics is just completely lacking. Um but coming on to um reform and the conservatives and so on. Um yeah I do know Nigel uh very well. Uh he is probably one of the best comm community political communicators in in the UK. um and he just has this empathy with uh the British public and he understands what they feel and he expresses it and that's why over the years he's been in many respects so successful. Um but but um the problem that I experienced um with uh the predecessor of reform party, the Brexit party a and what was interesting was that um we were the single largest party in the European Union. It's ironic, isn't it, that the party that wants to leave the EU and close it down was the biggest party. Uh we there were 29 of us when I was there in in Brussels and and we all agreed on one thing. We all agreed on one thing is that we need to leave the EU but we couldn't agree on anything else because you had sort of free market libertarian thatcherites like me in the party and you had socialists in the party. So we were fine as a protest party, but were we in a position to govern or anything, we would have been all over the place. And that is part of the problem and the challenge for reform at the moment is that um great as a protest party, you know, they're a vessel for people that are, you know, disaffected by all the mainstream political parties, but I'm not sure how they could govern. And um you know, they don't really have an economic philosophy. they they are nationalists.

[00:32:29]Uh fair enough. Um you know they believe in the nation state. I believe in the nation state. I don't have a problem with uh nationalism. But on the economics um I don't believe in state control. I don't believe that um we should be nationalizing British steel.

[00:32:44]You know, we know why our steel industry is, you know, in the state that it's in.

[00:32:48]It's not because they can't run a business. It's because our energy costs are too high and we have this mad net zero policy. Scrap that. And I'm sure private business would operate it ter you know very well. Um so you know they have an issue with that but my sort of sense is that they have already recruited all the supporters they're going to get from the right from the Conservative party. And so now to get more supporters they have to recruit them from the Labor Party uh from the left. And so they're trying to be all things to all people. and uh you know I just you know that might work in terms of trying to get sort of political support but I don't think it works in in being able to govern and I think people are seeing that because there's too many inherent contradictions in it uh and so whilst they have been you know gaining in support they've now sort of they've peaked possibly peaked too early uh and you're also seeing the the rise you know the conservatives are coming back is doing an incredible job. Um people said that they didn't really know much about her in the her first year as leader. uh and and quite rightly she was focusing on trying to sort out all the problems you know back of house uh with the Conservative party and there were a lot of problems but she's now starting to become much more sort of um you know public her her you know performances let's say uh in prime minister's question time are absolutely superb uh they're gaining a lot of publicity um but um and I think some people that join reform are starting to sort of move back. Um I think some of the you know I'm guessing that some of the uh polit politicians that moved across to reform are probably having some doubts now whether they made the right decision. Um you know I don't know that for sure but I I would suspect because uh you know Kem is pulling everybody together. So, so you would say that the conservatives have a in your view a sort of more thorough worldview that's consistent more or less between each of their members. Whereas reform because maybe because it's a newer party because they are trying to reach every type of person. They're sort of all over the place on policy. Well, the Tories were all over the place on policy and um you know you know that they don't have nearly as many MPs as they did in the last government. They only have 130 and uh you know and half of those were on the left of the Conservative party and and the Tory party itself was split which is why they did so badly at the last election. But I think that a lot of those on the sort of left of the Conservative party that they're not as uh they're not as religious about their convictions. And I think if they see Kem doing well, they'll want a sort of move to support her. You know, one of the strongest groups within the Conservative party in the last few years was the Conservative Environmental Network who were all very gung-ho about net zero and you know, they bought into that nonsense. um a and they are sort of they seem to be failing now. I think they've realized that uh you know this isn't the the most sensible approach for uh the economy. Um Kem's um I suppose challenge although seems to be dealing with it pretty well is that whilst she is gaining in support and people know her, there aren't many new faces uh within the Conservative party and you don't necessarily want to have the old faces that were the ones that sort of brought the party down. But there are new people coming through. Um, people like Katy Lamb, Jack Rankin, um, not a new face, but Nick Timothy, uh, who has been there for a while and as I say, he spoke at the Conservative Friends of Israel lunch. He he's an outstanding asset to the party. Uh, and there and there there are others, too. So, it's, you know, I think they are they they are on the rise. Their timing their timing is good if Labor is still in power for another couple of years. Um but you know if an election was called right now I think there will be you know panic stations all around.

[00:37:09]>> Do you think that there's a chance that you guys will have a coalitional government like we do in Israel?

[00:37:16]obviously much less parties because here we have like 30. But um between if if if for example the right-wing parties would have a majority but no one party of them would would they because I assume the personal hatred between all of them is pretty high. But would they be able to get over that and actually govern together or would they just let the left win basically? Look, I think if it came to it and and um you know, following an election, neither of them could make it alone, but together they could, I think they would overcome their difficulties. I'm pretty sure they would. In the last election and indeed the election before, I was trying to persuade Nigel to to to have some kind of, you know, say under the table pact.

[00:38:06]It couldn't have been at public once. So the last election, uh was it the last one? No, the one before when we were in Europe um and uh Nigel had said to it was Boris Johnson was leader of he was prime minister at the time he said to Boris let's form a non-aggression pact in this upcoming election now to me the language is all wrong you know it's a threat basically you're saying if you don't form a pact we're going to be aggressive towards you that's not a way to make friends and influence people that's not to me that was the wrong approach And and what I think Nigel failed to appreciate is that the Tories could never be seen to be making a pact with the Brexit party because half the Tories were remainers. So they would never have made a pack with Brexit. They would have ended up voting for the Liberal Democrats or somebody else. Similarly, it was wrong for Brexiteers to propose a pact with the Conservative Party because half the Brexiteers were Labour supporters. So it was it was in my view it was a you know not the right approach. Uh and what they what he should have done was just had a sort of quiet uh agreement that in in left uh leftwing areas what we call the red wall seats in the UK. So seats that were always Labor seats but were pro-rexit.

[00:39:28]What the Conservatives should do is put up some kind of paper cander that is never going to campaign and never going to win and leave it to the Brexit party to do it. And similarly in, you know, Conservative held seats, you know, and indeed marginal seats um that um the Brea party should not put up Kansas either. So it was just like it should have been in a sort of informal sort of uh you know quiet agreement and and then you might have found that if they're not competing against each other they might win support and and I was trying to explain to the Brexit party that if they did that they might have won 10 15 seats which would have given them a stepping stone and you know if they held the balance of power that gives them disproportional strength.

[00:40:14]>> Yes.

[00:40:14]>> Um >> like in Israel.

[00:40:16]>> Yeah. But they exactly like just like Israel with the minority parties and they didn't buy into it. And then we had the same thing in the last election. I was trying to persuade the party to the Brexit party or they were reformed then uh to do the same thing. And at that at that point they just felt no no what we want to do is destroy the Conservative party. Um and basically the you know if we destroy the Conservative party we can gain huge amount of support after the election to win the following time and they started to do that and you know and they they were hitting 32 33% in the polls but that has you know that was quite shortlived. It lasted for about a year it's now starting to weigh there.

[00:41:00]There was um there was a a politician here that no one uh you won't have heard of, a guy called Neil Buckley. Uh he he was stand become the mayor of Manchester. And uh he had my favorite political quote of the the previous year. He said he said, "I really want Labour to win the next election because things aren't going to improve in Britain until we hit rock bottom, but Labour will get us there much faster.

[00:41:29][laughter] Yes. And we see it in front of our eyes.

[00:41:32]>> Exactly.

[00:41:33]>> Yeah. Uh two short questions before we finish. The first one is just uh so you mentioned Kami Benov being very supportive of Jews and Israel. How is Nigel on that issue? Is he because um I know friends of Nigel that are very supportive of Israel, very supportive of Jewish community. They have a new organization by Lois Perry um Reformed Friends of Israel. Is that some is that really where he is? Um, from your experience with him, is he very supportive of Israel and should we, you know, that both of the conser the right-wing parties are led by people who get it?

[00:42:08]>> Um, I think he is naturally supportive.

[00:42:11]Um, he's never been to Israel to the best of my knowledge. Um, but I think he is naturally supportive.

[00:42:19]Um, I think that many of the people in the Reform Party are concerned about the the growth of Islam and whether that makes them supportive by default, I I don't know. Um, but um, yeah, I think there their their heart is is in the right place. Um, but it's just, you know, for Nigel, my my sense is that it's never really been his issue. He's been interested in domestic politics in Europe. You know, if you ask most Jewish people in the UK, uh, tell me about the Irish question and the Irish problems, they could probably talk for about 10 seconds and that's it. They wouldn't know it. It's not their issue. And for a lot, you know, we obsess about Israel, you know, that's all we talk about. And every Jewish person talks to other Jewish people about how we feel and so on. For most people in Britain, it's not their issue. They don't know it. They wouldn't, they couldn't, you know, barely point to it on a map, you know.

[00:43:10]But wait, Lance, let me just say that I don't want a politician that's knows or is obsessed about Israel. I want someone that supports us just on a general term that won't take our enemy's side at every time that he's asked about it. And there's the people who support him, his constituents aren't Israel haters. So, he doesn't need to buy their support with lip service to be against us. And if that's where he is, then great. I don't I don't think we need someone who's obsessed with understanding every minute detail. I guess I guess once you know that he's in the right place, people can learn, grow into it. And >> you know, that's true. That's that's a fair fair comment. And yeah, he he is on side, you know, at various points, particularly since October the 7th where Israel's come under attack. He's, you know, criticized our enemies or criticized the government uh for for, you know, mishandling the situation. Um he was very supportive. You know, he he was, I think, one of the few politicians that was um very supportive uh with Emily Deari, the British hostage. Um and um you know he I think he's been on side on the uh the Iran question criticizing the government's decision on that but not every single detail you I don't believe he's criticized you know um British taxpayers funding UNRA and so on. So that not every single point but you know when there has been an issue he's always been on our side. Uh that's the thing.

[00:44:37]One of the things that's um also quite interesting um you know going back a number of years um I and this is not to do with Israel but to do with Shahita um he was he went to Europe to to fight the case for Shahita in the UK. Um whether it is because he wanted kosher in the UK or whether it was another opportunity to attack the EU is a is a um is a you know a moot point. But yeah, he has instinctively uh been on our side. He's been, you know, he's had Jewish supporters and Jewish friends uh for years and you know, people talk about what happened in his school days. I think it's just, you know, nonsense, school boy banter, and it's just an opportunity for the left to attack him.

[00:45:22]I, you know, I've known him for a number of years now and I have very, my dad was a Holocaust survivor. I have very strong antenna when it comes to anti-semitism and they're not even flinching when I'm with Nigel Farage. I don't see any issue there at all.

[00:45:36]>> Okay. I want to ask you shortly about so you mentioned the the Jewish uh for those who are not Jewish means the Jewish uh tradition of how to slaughter uh livestock in order to eat meat and chicken. Um actually the person who left reform Yes.

[00:45:56]Rupert Low and opened this new party has been hammering about that we need to stop the Shakita and his entire >> I would not say the entire he's his party has accepted a large amount of I would say >> anti-semites out in the open like people who say we should kick all the Jews out of the UK along with the Muslims etc and um all this kind of stuff he in the past I went through his exac account was really supportive of Israel Mr. They're low, but I guess he accept in a lot of his tweets, but then his I guess he feels that he needs to these people in order to succeed in some of these local places. How worried are you that what we see in America, the woke right you mentioned before, is coming to the UK?

[00:46:43]>> Um, I'm not very worried. I think it's very fringe and I think that the recent bi-election we had in Makerfield will put the nail in the coffin for the Reform Party. You know, he was saying >> the restore party the restore party.

[00:46:57]Yeah. He was saying, you know, we you know, we we we really believe we can win this thing. And they ended up getting 7% of the vote. Fortunately for reform, that 7% didn't stop them. You know, it wasn't the the 7% that stopped them winning. They didn't win anyway. But even with that 7%, they couldn't have achieved it. Um you know, I've spoken to I know Rbert well and you know, I was in Brussels with him. I I quite like the guy actually. Um but I think he's been very naive um um on this question of uh um not only uh the kash and halal uh but also in terms of the people that support him. You know when he first when he first talked about uh banning halal and kosher food, it was clearly it was nothing to do with food sal. He says it's all about animal welfare. This is nonsense in in Strasburg. I would go out for dinner with him. He was eating fuagra. You know, this is not about animal welfare. Uh this is about making life uncomfortable for Muslims in the UK. That's why I believe he was doing it. And you know, we just uh we you know, he couldn't do one without the other. So we got caught in the uh you know, >> as usual.

[00:48:11]>> Yeah. Caught up caught up with it. And so I I messaged him privately and I said, you know, you do realize, Robert, that this is going to cause a problem for Jewish people uh in the UK and you know, many will have to leave. And he messaged me back and he said, don't worry, Lance, you'll be able to import it. I'm thinking, well, if you can import it that then you're not dealing with the problem because halal meat could be important as well. So, you know, it's just it hasn't been thought through. Um so, you know, I I think it's uh I think it's misguided. um it doesn't stop the problem just like you know banning the burka in France hasn't stopped the problem of Islamism either uh you know you've got to get to the root of the problem not mess around with uh uh these other things but uh I I think they're I think they're pretty you know I think they're pretty irrelevant now um most people find it pretty distasteful um and uh why doesn't he tell them that like I think it's a losing issue in the sense that British people especially on the anti left coalition. They're mostly not good people that don't want to, you know, attack Jews and kick Jewish people out.

[00:49:23]Jewish people have been a part of Britain for a very long time and have contributed a lot to what we would today consider British culture, British society. You, for example, your family with your business and other business people that have provided jobs and all and great things for the UK. And I think most people on our side understand that.

[00:49:43]>> Why would he bring people like that into his tent?

[00:49:46]>> I mean, the thing is Britain has historically been a very tolerant society. You know, you got to go back uh almost a thousand years be the time when Jews were kicked out of the UK before Oliver Cromwell brought them back, brought us back in again. And so we've been a very tolerant society, a very open society. And uh however however Britain has changed you know and that is the fear that you know we've had such a huge swave of immigration in recent years you know has that changed the value system and culture of Britain maybe it has we don't know yet as I say there has been a wakeup call and maybe we'll overcome the problem and the other thing is that um we have more people more young people going to university than ever before and they're being indoctrinated with lefty anti-polonialist, you know, self-hatred.

[00:50:39]Uh, and this is, you know, this is also problematic. Um, whether they that remains with them or it's just something that they have in student life and then they grow up once they, you know, start getting jobs and having to, uh, you know, pay taxes. I don't know. The world's changing fast. AI is changing everything, too. Who knows where that's going to lead? And, uh, >> stop scaring us.

[00:51:02]>> Yeah. Well, [laughter] but you know, I I I'm a positive person. I, you know, I believe that, you know, >> ultimately I I believe that uh humans are good. Um I I believe that uh the greatest instinct we have is our survival instinct. Uh and I think that means we always look for positive solutions to to to live and live freely.

[00:51:24]Uh that's my you know that's my sort of natural instinct and uh you know so so I'm I you know of course I'm concerned about the state of the UK at the moment but um you know and I don't think I'm a dreamer but I do think that long term I think we'll be okay >> as a business person do you the UK is very difficult to I've spoken lots of people that everyone complains about bureaucracy taxes um all of this and you mentioned the net zero which makes everything more expensive especially for factories, businesses, people that use a lot of electricity to you know just to survive.

[00:52:06]What if if a new government came in and you know canceled all these net zero policies, lowered regulations, lower taxes, all of the things that a progrowth um political party should be for? would how fast do you think you can have a turnaround in terms of the economy being working and growth and helping everyone you know uh raise the tide so to speak?

[00:52:30]>> Well, I I think it would happen very quickly. You know, capital moves very very fast. Um yeah, I we have the capacity for growth. we just need people and people want to invest in Britain, but they don't want to at the moment because it's, you know, there's so much uncertainty. Um, so I I think, you know, I think we're well placed to to grow pretty quickly. Um, and we have these natural resources. You know, we're very fortunate that we have these natural resources. They're just not being exploited. Uh, we have an educated population. We have a strong legal system. So, we have all that. But we do need to free, you know, free the, you know, the the uh the markets of this burdensome regulation. Um and and taxes are ridiculously high. You know, the tax take at the moment is higher than it's been ever. Um and certainly at the highest level, it you know, it more millionaires have left the UK than any country in the world. I believe in >> the left is happy about that, I assume.

[00:53:33]>> Well, they're happy. They're not. I mean, they don't, you know, the left don't like millionaires and billionaires, but, you know, do they like them anymore if they're moving to, uh, you know, Dubai or or Florida? Um, you know, we need, you know, of course, we need some public services, uh, and they have to be funded. So, you need a a successful economy and, uh, the left don't seem to understand that at all.

[00:53:57]Um, but, uh, >> the Conservative Party do understand that. Um, you know, I'm I'm hopeful that their support will continue to grow. Um, and you know, they have, you know, they something they they have that reform don't have is they have breadth. You know, reform is a very young party.

[00:54:15]You've got a few. It's, you know, people say it's a oneman party, Nigel Farage.

[00:54:19]Of course, he is the strongest. They have a few other people too, but they don't have the the breadth and depth that the Conservative Party, which is, you know, been the most successful political party on the planet pretty much for the last 100 years. Um so there is a lot of debt there and uh you know they're serious players and I believe there is you know a real determination at the moment to to to sweep back you know all the mistakes that they've made over the last 14 years and actually in many respects go back to when they were successful under that you know much more free market and uh you know let br business uh drive you know economic growth and uh freedom and choice and you know all the things we love and believe in.

[00:55:01]Lance Foreman, an honor. Was a lot of fun. Learned a lot from you. Uh hopefully you'll come back again. I because I have more questions, but I have to pick up the kids. So So we did this uh on a hurry, but it was a lot of fun. And thank you so much. Keep fighting the good fight from where you are. I think um a lot of people in the UK are very depressed, but what you get told us today gives a little bit of hope. So hopefully we'll continue going into a good place even though this new guy is very annoying. Um but uh thank you so much.

[00:55:33]>> Pleasure. Always a pleasure to be with you.