Thanks, Technology: You Can’t Simply Change Brake Pads Anymore

[00:00:00]So Brett, we're halfway through, mate.

[00:00:01]Better get everyone up to speed. What are we doing?

[00:00:04]>> I'm changing the rear discs and pads on my wife's X3 because I don't want to pay two grand to BMW Service Center.

[00:00:11]>> You had a millimeter of meat left to go on those pads.

[00:00:14]>> Yeah, >> it's a bit of a waste, you know.

[00:00:16]>> Don't want to waste it.

[00:00:17]>> This is a really interesting story though, right? Cuz >> it's it's a black art. You know, people don't work on their cars. Whereas when we grew up, everyone's dad changed the oil and it it was just a done thing.

[00:00:29]Yeah, >> but there's been the odd hurdle and it hasn't been the actual hands on the tools.

[00:00:36]>> That's right. So, with this, you have to engage maintenance mode to basically release the brakes so I can push the piston back on the caliper. And, you know, an old school car, you just start winding it back. Get a clamp or whatever clamp, >> get one of the proper tools and push the piston back. Whereas this, it's thinking it's stopped. So, it's got the park brake on. But basically, you have to use an app to access the computer or gauge with the computer, tell it to go into maintenance mode, and then it will allow you to But yeah, stuffing around to get that working.

[00:01:06]>> Oh, yeah. That's just an IT problem, right? So, not only does the handbrake need to be released, but there's a non-return valve in there as well, and that's what maintenance mode is about seemingly, it just turns a non-return valve off. You can hear bunch of when you finally figure out how to spoof it.

[00:01:24]>> Yeah. You hear all the hydraulic noises and all of a sudden the piston just slides back. Right.

[00:01:30]>> But the old school bit, the wheels off, changing the discs, changing the pads, that's just all the usual mechanical pain in the ass.

[00:01:40]>> Yeah.

[00:01:41]>> But the real head [ __ ] happening here is convincing the computer that it's okay to let us do this job.

[00:01:48]>> Yes. And this was a bit of a stuff around because BMW you don't you got push button start. So the the trick was I had to hit the start button three times to access what I would call reds.

[00:01:59]So having the accessories fully on.

[00:02:01]>> Yeah.

[00:02:01]>> When you get into these modern vehicles they're kind of on anyway.

[00:02:04]>> Sure.

[00:02:04]>> And then that's what was trying to trigger the app to to say no you need to be in you know on mode basically but without the engine running. And that was yeah took half the time just to get that working. But the point about this is I think the inaccessibility of this is partly designed in. It's partly baked in by BMW, right? Because >> that's going to be two 2 1/2 grand, whatever. If you go to the dealership and they go, "Dude, your brakes are rooted."

[00:02:33]>> Yeah.

[00:02:33]>> Sorry about that. That'll be 2 1/2 grand.

[00:02:36]>> But you've got uh what was that? You got Brebo rotors and uh DBA pads.

[00:02:43]>> Yeah. Because this is got the M Sport pack. Yeah, >> which is probably overengineered for Australia. You need it for the auto bar and you're going 200 km an hour. You hit the brakes for, you know, a good 3 or 4 seconds. You need to get rid of that.

[00:02:56]>> Yeah. But in Australia, not really needed. But yeah, this has got floating discs front and rear.

[00:03:01]>> Uh but I got Brembo discs, uh DBA pads, just Euro premium pads. 600 bucks for the lot, >> which I think is pretty good for for like a high-end disc package. If this was a Corolla or something like that, I reckon 300 bucks, maybe $400. It's, you know, not that bad.

[00:03:18]>> Okay, so you don't need to have your car on a hoist to do this. So, we can discount that. You don't really have to go and find someone with a hoist to do it. But >> um it's taken what? A couple of hours.

[00:03:31]And I'd suggest that if you spend a couple of hours, even if you take the day off work to do this, there aren't too many people walking home with 1,500 bucks cash in their hand every day.

[00:03:43]>> That's right. Yeah. That's what you saved.

[00:03:45]>> That's kind of what we're talking about saving.

[00:03:47]>> Y, >> you know, just for doing a simple job like this. So, I reckon there's a real case for a figuring out how to spoof the [ __ ] out of the electronics >> and b just knowing how to do basic mechanical work.

[00:04:01]>> Yeah. Well, there's a lot of apps out there now as well that will >> uh like the one I use was specializing in Volkswagen and BMW. You can get ones for to Toyota and all that sort of thing. So, there's definitely availability of that. So, you could theoretically service your own car. I guess the main thing that I would be worried about is just voiding the warranty and so on. You know, they want you to service it at the official dealership. So, if you, you know, if you got a brand new car, it's probably best to ship it away to the the official center, then you can ensure that you've got the warranty there. But if you've got something that's a little bit old, >> dude, I'd suggest that um >> the standard servicing >> for the warranty period, that makes sense. But if your brakes wear out, you there's no law saying you can't replace your pads and rotors yourself.

[00:04:50]>> That's not going to void the warranty on your engine. They can't say, "Oh, sorry.

[00:04:54]You've got a cracked head."

[00:04:55]>> Yeah. Hey, you changed your pads.

[00:04:57]>> You [ __ ] your warranty. Like, come on.

[00:05:00]>> That's I'm sure someone would try that on in dealership land, but they can't they can't say that.

[00:05:06]>> What they can say is, "No, you were 3 months late for your service. That's why your head cracked. That's why you spun that bearing >> and you wouldn't have a leg to freaking stand on. But >> uh just doing a job like this, >> obviously if you damage something in the brakes, that's on you.

[00:05:22]>> So there there is a a risk involved in going hands on and you could drop the car on yourself if you're a [ __ ] Like the real world has constraints and and actual risks. And I guess there are people who they work in an office and the worst thing that can happen is you run out of toner.

[00:05:42]>> Yeah.

[00:05:42]>> You know, >> or the gas strut in your seat's gone.

[00:05:45]>> Yeah. Or or it's squeak. My seat's squeaking. [ __ ] You know, how can I concentrate? But you can drop the car on yourself in this mode, which is why we got the tire sitting there after all.

[00:05:56]Um, >> but if you manage those risks reasonably and you just double check everything, like we've both can confirm that the uh caliper bolts are on and this set screw here that holds the >> uh holds the rotor in place while reassembling it.

[00:06:14]>> Two two bolts.

[00:06:16]>> Yeah.

[00:06:16]>> That holder screw and the wheel.

[00:06:19]>> Yeah. But even there Yeah. We even there the the biggest reassembly head [ __ ] for us has been um the sensors on the other side the wiring.

[00:06:29]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:06:29]>> That's a pain in the ass >> getting in that little eyelet thing.

[00:06:32]It's just Yeah. It's a bit fiddly if you haven't done that sort of stuff before or in my case for a while then it's just a bit of um >> Well, see this is the other thing, right? Like um I trained as an engineer and worked in heavy industry before I did journalism. And you're a qualified mechanic. Y, >> you know, so there's a skill set baked into the back end of both of those processes. And I guess this would be a scary thing to do if you >> doing it the first time, >> never done anything like that before.

[00:07:04]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:05]>> And you wouldn't want to get brakes wrong.

[00:07:08]>> Yes.

[00:07:08]>> Although brakes aren't the sort of thing that you get wrong and then it goes horribly wrong 5ks later.

[00:07:15]>> Yeah.

[00:07:15]>> It's like you >> you'll know about it pretty quickly.

[00:07:17]>> Yeah. It's It's like you take the chops away and it rolls into the garage door and you think, "Shit."

[00:07:22]>> Yeah. But when we drop this down, obviously the first thing I do is pump the brakes a couple of times, make sure Yeah. Make sure there's no warning lights on the dash and all that sort of thing, >> and it should be fine. But >> yeah, I think that was it's going to be a bit of bit scary to do it the first time, but if you do this once, it kind of gives you a little bit of confidence, I guess, and then the next time you do it, it's it's obviously easier. Then you want to try out other things, but it just depends what you want to do. If you want to pull the head off and change the gasket yourself on a modern car, that's probably going to involve a bit more >> rebuilding an engine watching and >> Well, yeah. And then you got to worry about is it credible or not?

[00:07:57]>> Yeah, cuz there's all sorts of quality levels there. But, um, >> the >> the sorts of jobs where I reckon you can save money are jobs like this and they're bushes and >> you know, things of that nature, like control arm bushes. If you've been flogging your Hilux up and down various 4x4 tracks.

[00:08:15]>> Yeah. If you could just learn how to change control arm bushes and uh damper bushes >> dampers themselves sometimes they're important. I just >> you know change the brakes and and then if your car's out of warranty and you learn how to do a little bit of routine maintenance like >> change the oil and you know just keep on top of bleeding the brakes cuz the fluid's hydroscopic and all of that.

[00:08:35]>> Yeah. You know >> that's a good way to save money. That's the that's the main thing. So as as you said like if I took this to a service center it would have cost three or four four times the price basically.

[00:08:45]>> Yeah.

[00:08:45]>> To do the same thing and it took us what two two hours or something like that >> with some stuffing around and you know >> there's a learning curve spoofing the electronics. [ __ ] man. The uh the other thing though is that when you're doing this you just >> you have a little bit of a look around, don't you? Yeah. You make sure you have a look at the diff and you make sure the seals aren't leaking. And if you have got your car up on a hoist, you can crank it right up and just go for a walk along under underneath and have a look at all those landmarks. Make sure there's no little spray of anything or any little growing evidence of some seeping blood. I >> don't know about you, but cancer.

[00:09:23]>> Yeah, exactly. When you grow grew up your first car, you know, I knew the underneath of my first car like the back of my hand. Like you just want to know what it is. It's all these parts are mine, you know. It was an option. It was an option as long as like if you didn't do that, your car broke down on the way to work.

[00:09:39]>> Exactly. Whereas in modern vehicles, like especially electric cars, >> I mean, you can still do the brakes.

[00:09:44]>> Sure.

[00:09:45]>> But there's not as much to >> It's a fallacy to suggest that electric cars don't need maintenance. They need they're big, heavy things. So, they need they're going to need tires and brakes.

[00:09:56]And um even though regenerative braking takes a little bit out of that, they're going to be hell on the bushes.

[00:10:02]>> Yeah. you know.

[00:10:03]>> Yeah.

[00:10:03]>> So, there's definite maintenance requirement. They're going to need the brake system bled. That's a pretty simple job.

[00:10:10]>> Yeah.

[00:10:10]>> You know, >> and they're going to need the coolant changed out and they got cooling systems.

[00:10:16]>> Yeah. Air conditioning and other climate settings and all that sort of thing.

[00:10:19]>> That's the other thing about dealers, mate. Like, um the pollen filter.

[00:10:24]>> Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[00:10:25]>> You know, that'll be $120 for the It takes 2 minutes.

[00:10:29]>> Just pop it out of the dashboard.

[00:10:31]You get under the glove box and just goes click out.

[00:10:35]>> It's got to be the easiest money on earth if you're a freaking Cardell. Oh, the technicians just advised us that your pollen filing.

[00:10:48]>> They're already ringing up the lunch venue.

[00:10:50]>> Yeah. Yeah. Have we got another one?

[00:10:52]Lunch is on us.

[00:10:55]>> But that's true. There's a lot of parts even in modern vehicles that are just you could easily do yourself. Yeah, >> cabin filter is a perfect example of that. I changed this myself cuz it's just get it online, >> pop it in there, it takes 2 seconds.

[00:11:08]>> Piece of cake. I think there's a lot of there is a definite tangible benefit to be derived from just knowing how to do some basic stuff. And the other thing is, you said it off the bat, uh, you just went, "Ah, gez, this tire's getting a bit low, wearing out a bit on the inside edges." How many normal punters do you reckon would have any idea about the uh status of their tires or their brake pads or >> their entire pressure?

[00:11:35]>> Yeah.

[00:11:36]>> You know, I mean, computers do a lot of that these days, which is >> TPMS is pretty good. Stops you having a blowout, I suppose.

[00:11:41]>> Yeah. It's some some technology makes us lazier, I believe.

[00:11:45]>> Yeah.

[00:11:45]>> Um but if you I mean, a lot of people have a car for three or four years.

[00:11:50]They'll get it serviced part of the maintenance program that they've got.

[00:11:53]they never have to touch it. But if something does go wrong, then they've got no idea how to where to start, you know, and that's the same with the tires. So, I saw the inside of the tire was just wearing out a little bit. BMWs usually wear out the sides of the tires cuz they have pretty aggressive geometry setups for handling and auto barn driving and all that sort of thing. So, they can wear the tires pretty quickly.

[00:12:13]But, >> yeah, if I if I didn't jack it up and have a look, then I wouldn't have thought about it, you know, would have, okay, I got to start budgeting for new tires. Yeah, but this is a pretty simple job. It's one step removed from Macano, >> you know, like it's not Lego, it's Macano. But it's it's not How many bolts is that? It's like three bolts, right?

[00:12:34]Or >> there's a set there's a set screw that that locates the uh the hat on the um on the rotor.

[00:12:42]>> And then there's two bolts that come pre-lock tighted that hold the caliper in place.

[00:12:46]>> That's it. And then with this this I mean this one is a little bit more convenient because the two-piece caliper you can actually as we saw you know you can you can leverage the the disc out without taking the actual caliper off.

[00:12:59]You're just taking off the outside piece.

[00:13:00]>> You've just got to take the piston housing part of the >> basically caliper out. So but other vehicles have two bolts for the whole caliper anyway. So you pop the whole caliper off and >> yeah just the whole thing just slides off. Yeah.

[00:13:10]>> So it's basically the same for any other car as well. Pretty simple again though, as long as you just take your time. You could even have a a run sheet there, a bit of paper to show a bad idea. Yeah.

[00:13:22]Which what you've done. Okay, I've taken the wheel off. That's pretty straightforward. Know how to put that back on.

[00:13:26]>> Yeah.

[00:13:26]>> Taking these two bolts off. You could even have top and bottom, but I mean, this came with new bolts anyway.

[00:13:30]>> Sure.

[00:13:31]>> Um and then that way you know how to put how to put it all back together without stressing about it, you know.

[00:13:37]>> Yeah. Bill, the beauty of this is you can't put it together wrong.

[00:13:42]>> Yeah. Not not you know what I mean?

[00:13:43]Yeah. I mean the sensor was a bit of a stuff around with the little eyelet things but >> yeah we had two cracks at the at the wiring.

[00:13:51]>> But you soon find out hang >> just cuz you've got to but even then you can't do it wrong cuz it physically won't fit around the control arm.

[00:13:58]>> You run out of it's not long enough to do it the wrong way. So and and I guess if if you are that BMW technician you're doing this all day long. You can do it in 15 minutes. Yeah.

[00:14:09]>> Right. Have a coffee. Yeah, >> but there there's definitely a learning curve with every job. There's absolutely a learning curve and you have to get over that hump. Um, you use the Cari app for this.

[00:14:22]>> Yes.

[00:14:23]>> Carly is a OBD2 reader thingo.

[00:14:26]>> Y >> and it's got its own uh little dongle thing that you just plug into the OBD2 port which is under the steering wheel in this car >> and an app for your phone >> and then you just get the app.

[00:14:35]>> Yeah.

[00:14:36]>> And then that communicates via that dongle with the car. It's not completely seamless, though. It seems to me like we got into this death spiral where you you go through this process to tell it to go into service mode and the progress bar halts halfway across and goes, "No, no, you're doing something wrong here, dickhead."

[00:14:55]>> And it took a while to figure that out, but what was it? Three presses.

[00:15:00]>> Yeah. So, for the ignition to be on, you got to push the button three times quickly and then lock. Yeah. The Christmas tree will light up. Yeah. And that's when it would say, "Okay, now I can put you into the service mode." And we heard the the police.

[00:15:13]>> Okay. So, when you walk up to the car in this case, this is what, 2018 or 19 or something?

[00:15:18]>> Uh, 2018. Yeah.

[00:15:19]>> 18. So, it's about >> uh 8 years old. Jesus.

[00:15:22]>> Yeah.

[00:15:23]>> You know, um, so it's an 8-year-old X3.

[00:15:26]And when you walk up to it, obviously it boots into accessory mode.

[00:15:31]>> Yeah, pretty much. Soon as you sit inside. Yeah. But it's not like a not like an old school uh car where you you manually select the ignition on and then hit the starter kind of thing.

[00:15:42]>> To get the ignition on and have the car shut down, you need three quick presses on the stop start button.

[00:15:50]>> Yes. But to connect to the app, you have to have the engine running.

[00:15:53]>> Yes, that was the hurdle.

[00:15:54]>> So, you got to start it and run it and connect it to the freaking app.

[00:15:57]>> Turn it off >> and then turn it off.

[00:15:59]>> Hit it three times. Yeah.

[00:16:00]>> And then hit it three times. So, and pat your tummy and rub your head or is it the other way [ __ ] around like Jesus is the hardest part of this job?

[00:16:11]>> Yeah. Combination of the car in the app, I reckon because of the three presses that threw a spanner in the works.

[00:16:16]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:17]>> But >> yeah, I mean, >> and if you're a 15year-old and you and you're just, >> you know, playing video games all day long or something, it's probably like, yeah, [ __ ] >> Don't you know that? Yeah. Yeah. So, um, while I got you here, well, you probably asked you why I've called you here for this meeting. Uh, what you've driven anything fun lately?

[00:16:38]>> Good.

[00:16:38]>> Anything good?

[00:16:39]>> Fun.

[00:16:41]>> Increasingly, there's this technology spiral, though. Like, I'm in that uh Tig9 the other day. I've got it out in the boonies on that turnaround spot we've been to a couple of times.

[00:16:49]>> Yeah.

[00:16:50]>> I just need to go forward a meter and a half >> and it's booted for driving. When you bloody walk up to it, it's good to go.

[00:16:56]Like, >> yeah.

[00:16:58]>> Can't get the handbrake off.

[00:16:59]>> Yeah. Yeah, that that's one of the most annoying things in in modern cars for me, having no start button, especially EVs. There's been so many times where I've got my wife in the car, kids in the back, quickly run inside to get a whatever, one of the kids toys, jump out, the car turns off, middle of summer, >> yeah, they're roasting.

[00:17:20]>> And then you Yeah, you got to come back in and sit on the seat as soon as you get off the seat. Or I had that leap mode at that time when I was driving along. It said the driver has left the seat and as I'm driving >> and you're looking at the seat going no [ __ ] still here.

[00:17:36]>> Yeah. But the best part about that was like what do you want me to do?

[00:17:40]>> What can you do to situation?

[00:17:42]>> I had a Mitsubishi Triton tell me that it couldn't detect my face.

[00:17:47]>> Yeah.

[00:17:48]>> No, pretty sure it's there.

[00:17:49]>> Still here.

[00:17:51]>> Why do I need to know >> that it can't detect my face?

[00:17:55]>> It doesn't help you >> cuz No. What? What driving function benefits >> from me having that information?

[00:18:02]>> Yeah.

[00:18:03]>> Nothing.

[00:18:03]>> Yeah.

[00:18:04]>> Like that. That's what happens when it [ __ ] run the show.

[00:18:10]>> Yeah. Yeah. I think that's the biggest sort of hurdle. I know some countries are trying to bring back things like more buttons and controls for for common functions. Yeah.

[00:18:20]>> Like climate and all that because it is a distraction. I don't care if it's got voice activation or you use three fingers to do things. It's not about that. It's about anybody jumping into the car and being able to turn the volume down straight away. You know, you shouldn't have to do a song and dance to turn volume down or turn air con on or whatever. And they are actually trying to bring back buttons. I think most people >> would agree that they prefer some buttons and controls as well. You know, it's >> well there's there's so many functions in a modern car, right? When you think about deep how deeply you can dive into customizing the ambient lighting color, they got 400,000 colors cuz 200,000 wouldn't be enough, you know. And uh some of them I can give a [ __ ] if they're buried 42 levels deep in a menu. But ambient temperature, >> seat heating on or off, you know, if the seat heat is on and it's too hot >> Yeah. I don't want to have to park.

[00:19:20]>> Yeah.

[00:19:20]>> And it it >> Yeah.

[00:19:23]>> I just want to go off.

[00:19:24]>> If you've got Android Auto or Apple CarPlay running as well, there's a lot of cars that will take over the whole screen.

[00:19:30]>> Yeah.

[00:19:31]>> And then you got to go into the sort of main toolbox of apps, go back to this native system, and then go >> disable.

[00:19:39]>> Yeah. Basically, >> Android Auto to get to the car control menu.

[00:19:43]>> Yeah. Which is ridiculous. Like really, all I want to do is turn the fan up to defrost the bloody windscreen. That's the classic, right? You drive along in the middle of winter. You've just started the car, you get halfway up the hill on the way out of your street and the windscreen starts fogging up and what you need to do is turn on the demyister.

[00:20:03]>> Yeah, >> it's got to be a button.

[00:20:04]>> Yeah, it should be.

[00:20:05]>> It's got to be a windscreen button. But >> that's that's a safety, you know, related pro problem. you'll be able to just park >> or or park and wait 15 minutes while you dive down through 10 menus and go defrost setting, you know, enable.

[00:20:20]>> Well, it's illegal to touch your phone while you're driving as we all know.

[00:20:24]>> But it's totally fine to >> dick around with a 20 not even looking where you're going, you know, just that that's I think a problem that they need just need to >> yeah finetune >> to be more reality. There's another there's another thing though, right?

[00:20:41]Because if you've got a button, it's let's say it's a toggle and and it's got an icon on the button and you know roughly where it is cuz it's your car.

[00:20:50]Okay, >> you're driving along and you you see the you see the fog creeping across your windscreen. You go, you great. And all you've got to do is go and confirm exactly where the windscreen defrost button is.

[00:21:05]>> Yeah.

[00:21:05]>> And just hit it.

[00:21:06]>> Yeah. Yeah, you can look straight back at the road while you're doing it, >> too. Yeah. Once your finger is on the button, you feel the press like it's tactile. It's haptic, whatever they call it now.

[00:21:15]>> Whereas on a tablet, you've got to physically keep you you got to be glued onto it.

[00:21:20]>> Yeah.

[00:21:20]>> And make sure you're pushing it and then make sure it actually, as you said, there's no react reaction often.

[00:21:24]>> And usually it's one of those little slider things on or off, right?

[00:21:29]>> You can't feel it. Like you've got to keep your eyes on it. Meanwhile, you collected four letter boxes on the same four children or four politicians would be okay.

[00:21:38]>> Yeah, >> that'll work out.

[00:21:40]>> I really think they got to get that [ __ ] straight because the car is not an iPad in motion.

[00:21:46]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:47]>> You know, >> I you know, one side I'm I'm I'm getting old and I feel like maybe that's just the new way.

[00:21:53]>> Try it from my side of the [ __ ] street, dude.

[00:21:56]>> But you know what I mean, though. Like it's it's you can fight it or you can just, >> you know, that's that's what the future is going to be. So >> yeah, but I don't want to be the cranky old prick shouting at the sky about a world [ __ ] now. So much better. Cuz it wasn't so much better in the ' 70s. It wasn't. Cars were [ __ ] They broke down all the time. When you went on holidays, there were just the freeway was littered with overheating cars in summer >> and in winter you had dead batteries all over town, right? Like it was [ __ ] >> No air con. I remember growing up going on a road trip to Queensland, no air con, sitting in the back, no vents in the back, >> the 270 air conditioner, which was two windows down to 70 m an hour.

[00:22:36]>> Yeah.

[00:22:37]>> Yeah, I I totally agree. Cars are so much better now, but this they're a long way from perfect. And this whole >> this this whole track where they're iPads in motion, >> Yeah.

[00:22:51]>> that's [ __ ] >> Yeah. I I think it's got to do with the transition between human drivers and autonomous drivers. And we're in this kind of weird bridge where the vehicles have the capa capability of driving themselves, but they they're legally not allowed to. And you need a a human to operate them. So, you've got these functions that are kind of seeming like they're helping, but they're not helping because a human still has to operate operate them. You know what I mean? It's it's >> it's a weird transition that we're in right now. I think that's a big part of the problem. Although I I don't think we're even vaguely close to autonomy.

[00:23:26]>> I I don't think it'll be in our lifetime at all because >> I I think we've got good autonomous driving in some places like uh warehouses.

[00:23:36]>> Yes.

[00:23:37]>> And other factory type environments where you've got a machine 100% machine environment like forklifts and that.

[00:23:45]>> You've probably been to factories like this. I know I've been to a hundred factories like this where they sort of say, "No, you can't go over there cuz >> it's all automated forklifts over there." They don't have the capacity to see humans walking randomly, >> you know? There's a human lane and the forklifts just know not to go in the human lane, >> you know?

[00:24:04]>> Well, that's kind of like cars sometimes. I feel like >> it would prefer if I wasn't there.

[00:24:11]>> If you [ __ ] off all drivers tomorrow and just had machines. Yeah, >> that would be simpler than putting autonomous cars on the road >> with humans cuz humans are [ __ ] They're they don't conform to logic at all. And robot cars can keep talking to other robot cars. They can go, "Ah, coming through this intersection at 70 mph. I'm 400 m out and they can just slow down 62% and miss by this much."

[00:24:41]And that's fine.

[00:24:43]>> Yeah. The best way to that I describe that to like friends or whatever is to say what are 10 s 10 multiplic multiplications in a row like 10 * 45 blah blah have them all in a list and then show them to someone >> and then watch them calculate them one by one whereas a computer can go and do them all at once. So it can calculate there's a baby on the side of the road there. There's a traffic light coming up because the car in front communicated that back to the my car. So it can do multiple things at once. But but you're right. If there's a human involved in that that's interrupting the system, then it's all thrown out.

[00:25:18]>> Yeah. So a robot can talk to a robot and they can sort [ __ ] out by Wi-Fi.

[00:25:23]>> Yeah.

[00:25:23]>> But a robot approaching an intersection and a human coming across this way, >> that's a big problem.

[00:25:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. Robot robot sees red light, I mean green light >> and someone's gone through the red light. Yeah. you know, it's just going to take that bit of ironing out to figure out pro or you know, code the code that in that a car could still theoretically go through. What do I do in that situation?

[00:25:45]>> Yeah.

[00:25:45]>> And then there's the case of, you know, the moral side. Do I swerve to the left into the into the the group of politicians or do I turn right into a baby? You know what I mean? That's an easy win. But >> I could write that code, but but >> you know what I Like there's there's there's decisions to be made and I think >> Bridget Driscoll, you know who she is?

[00:26:05]She's the first fatality road fatality >> ever. Yeah.

[00:26:09]>> Yeah. Right.

[00:26:10]>> Yeah. She got run over in um the United Kingdom in Britain somewhere. Um >> and then just after the advent of the automobile, right? So she's, you know, got I don't know the bloody umbrella thing going for a stroll as they did back then. And this um this car cleaned her up.

[00:26:28]>> Yeah.

[00:26:28]>> Right. And there was a moral panic over it. Like this should never be allowed to happen again kind of thing. And that was a real hurdle for humanity at that time.

[00:26:39]Like how the [ __ ] do we deal with this?

[00:26:41]>> Yeah.

[00:26:41]>> We can't let this happen ever again kind of thing. And >> yet here we are. People get cleaned up all the time on the moral landscape. I think that's where we are with freaking um robot cars.

[00:26:53]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:26:54]>> Who's who's guilty if there's a defect in the code?

[00:26:57]>> Is it the programmer? Is it the car maker? Is it like they haven't figured that out?

[00:27:02]>> No. So, at the moment, you can buy the Tesla with the uh full self-driving.

[00:27:07]I've driven one of them around Sydney.

[00:27:09]It's only in a set area. You can't go absolutely anywhere. But it did drive completely by itself. I told it to go from one end of town to the other. And it did everything itself, but I I was just constantly aware of thinking, you know, what if something's in a particular scenario, will it be able to get on top of that? like, >> well, robots are only as good as the code, right? So, you see all the time robots going haywire when there's an input that they haven't been programmed for. You see it in the CNC machine world.

[00:27:42]>> Yeah.

[00:27:43]>> Right. Something happens and it's it's outside the parameters. Yeah.

[00:27:47]>> And they just can't cope with it. And then you've just got all this embodied energy running into something because there's no >> failsafe dimension to those circumstances. Like for example, say there's a trolley rolling down a driveway.

[00:28:00]>> Yeah.

[00:28:00]>> And it's got say nothing in it, right?

[00:28:03]The car might think it's a pram. So it slams the brakes, but the the only option is to swerve into oncoming traffic or hit the pram. A human might go in a split second because it has emotions. There's a trolley. There's nothing in it. or I go into the on on, you know, oncoming traffic, I'm just going to smash into the pram with my brakes on.

[00:28:22]>> Whereas an autonomous car might, we don't know, >> go pram, you know, swerve, bang, and then get collected by, you know, so there's these different scenarios where I think it's just going to take years to come >> if it can resolve the difference between a shopping trolley and a pram.

[00:28:36]>> Yeah.

[00:28:37]>> What if it is a pram with nothing in it, though, and a human can see that there's nothing in it, but the car can't, you know?

[00:28:43]There's probably another bunch of scenarios where you could just >> there's no definite to it, you know, and I think emotion needs to be involved a little bit.

[00:28:50]>> Yeah. Humans don't um really use logic or emotion when they're really under stress, though.

[00:28:58]>> They just go into a panic mode.

[00:28:59]>> Like you react to something instinctively a little bit, but you don't if you if you think you've used logic there, then you're deluding yourself, you know? or if there's been a moral dimension to any of that. Um, you usually over overlay that in later.

[00:29:15]>> Yeah.

[00:29:16]>> It's like if someone um it's like if you turn around in a pub and someone's halfway through to hitting you with a hay maker, like you turn around about there, there's no processing.

[00:29:26]>> There's like the dark will get hit.

[00:29:28]>> Yeah. It's Well, in situations like that, it depends if you've had any training or not.

[00:29:34]>> Yeah.

[00:29:35]>> Cuz quite often people just freeze or they panic.

[00:29:38]>> Yeah. or >> whatever you know >> and there's no logic so I don't think we deal with those things maybe the best way but we have evolved to deal with unexpected things that unfold dynamically and rapidly.

[00:29:58]>> Yeah. But as you said coming back to that what you said before so a human might not be able to come up with logic very well but if what's who's to blame in that situation if I hit the trolley I'm the blame. If I hit the car I'm the blame. If the car makes that decision who's to blame then do you know and I think >> I don't know if I could live with that knowing that the car made decision for me that was a wrong decision.

[00:30:22]>> The wrong one. Yeah.

[00:30:22]>> If I make the wrong decision then I've got to shelf.

[00:30:25]>> You got to live with it. You got to own it.

[00:30:26]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The the whole point about humans under stress is that logic's not the best tool. And that's why your brain gets logic and switches it off. There's a thing in your brain called your amygdala.

[00:30:40]>> And it [ __ ] switches all of that off.

[00:30:42]>> Goes into survival mode. Yeah. Fight or flight, you know?

[00:30:46]>> They neurologists call it an amygdala hijack.

[00:30:50]>> Yeah.

[00:30:50]>> It just takes over all control.

[00:30:52]>> Takes over. And then later on you process it. You go, "Oh, yeah. I thought it was better to go out into the oncoming traffic. No, you [ __ ] didn't. You didn't think at all. You just acted.

[00:31:02]>> Yeah.

[00:31:03]>> You know.

[00:31:04]>> Yeah.

[00:31:04]>> And you probably act in line with the way you're wired generally. If you're Hannibal Lecter, you go, >> "Yeah, >> you know, and if you a normal person with a functioning moral compass, it probably informs >> Yeah.

[00:31:17]>> how you react under stress. But in terms of actually thinking about it, you do that afterwards.

[00:31:23]>> Yeah. It's after the the aftermath.

[00:31:25]>> Yeah. Yeah. Just the same as we're going to do when you when we discover that we've done this massively wrong and you the car starts rolling off the hoist >> over the balcony over there.

[00:31:35]>> It ends up in the freeway.

[00:31:38]>> Okay. We've done something wrong there, I think.

[00:31:40]>> All right, man. What are you test driving next?

[00:31:42]>> Um, so I've got the Sang or the not the Sangong, the KGM electric ute.

[00:31:47]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:31:48]>> Which is >> That'll be half interesting.

[00:31:50]>> It's It is interesting. That's a good word for it. But it's $64,000.

[00:31:55]>> I know.

[00:31:56]>> And the normal Muso diesel is $40,000.

[00:32:00]>> Yeah.

[00:32:01]>> I'm just struggling to understand the benefits.

[00:32:05]>> Why you'd go with the electric? I mean, apart from >> I'm struggling to understand the usage case.

[00:32:10]>> Yeah. Well, who's going to Yeah. It's got 380 km range with nothing in it.

[00:32:14]Yeah.

[00:32:15]>> Tow something with it. It's 1,800 kg towing capacity.

[00:32:18]>> Load it up, mate. Load it up like a tradey. It's probably got about 120 ks of >> Yeah.

[00:32:23]>> range.

[00:32:24]>> Yeah. 800k 800 kg payload. That's not too bad.

[00:32:28]>> Yeah.

[00:32:28]>> But I imagine their range is just going to be gone if you load it up and drive it as a ute.

[00:32:34]>> And then like I I keep seeing these uh careers out the front of my joint, right? Like they drop something off.

[00:32:41]>> Yeah.

[00:32:41]>> And they arrive in some Renault Master >> Yeah.

[00:32:44]>> van, something like that. And they're clanky old diesel that's done 400,000 ks. It's on its last legs. blah blah blah. But if you move to an electrified future, where is that tradey, that delivery driver, that tradey, whoever, where is he going to find the economic case for stopping for an hour?

[00:33:05]>> Yeah.

[00:33:06]>> Just to recharge.

[00:33:08]>> Yeah.

[00:33:08]>> Just because of the range and the load, you know, >> and pay 20 $24,000 more. He's got to pay more for the finance to be less productive during the day because he's got to take an extra hour out of the day even if he's having lunch. Like I see a lot of these tradies and um >> uh couers, they're having lunch on the go.

[00:33:28]>> Yeah.

[00:33:28]>> You know, they don't stop for an hour for lunch. Yeah.

[00:33:30]>> But it's not optional when you're recharging, right? Even at a fast charger.

[00:33:34]>> Well, most delivery drivers in Australia, I'm pretty sure, they get paid per delivery. So that why would they want to stop for an hour?

[00:33:43]>> Stop for an hour and not get paid. Yeah.

[00:33:44]>> Yeah. But you you really have to do the math as you know, is this saving me in fuel?

[00:33:51]>> $24,000 get you a fair bit of fuel.

[00:33:53]That's probably three or four years of fuel, maybe even more.

[00:33:56]>> 12,000 L of fuel.

[00:33:57]>> That's going to get you >> [ __ ] a lot of fuel.

[00:34:00]>> Yeah. So, you'd really have to do the maths and I I can't see a scenario.

[00:34:06]>> 50 to 200 tanks of fuel.

[00:34:08]>> So, that's a >> tank of fuel a day.

[00:34:10]>> Well over 100,000 km.

[00:34:12]>> Yeah. Yeah. That's the that that's the problem with all of this arithmetic.

[00:34:16]Like, how do they pay for it? Where's the economic basis?

[00:34:19]>> There's just none. So, if this >> and they're gonna start replacing the lost fuel excise with road user charge, too. So, >> that's what I'm waiting for. I'm just I'm I've said you know asked you this before but you know I can't see the government being happy with electricity companies paying way less tax because people have got solar and batteries and I can't see them being happy with us paying way less tax through fuel they're going to make up the money somewhere they have to. So if everybody's got an electric car we will be paying it in some way shape or form. We have to it doesn't matter about being >> well they're addicted to revenue from us so they got to feed their habit some way and if they can't get it from fuel excess they're going to have to get it another way right >> yeah not even about you know the fight between what do you like more electric cars or petrol it's just logical they have an income coming in now from this >> if you take that away >> how do they replace how do they operate >> going to have to replace it yeah >> but yeah this doesn't this this you I don't know it's it's interesting and it's pretty you know smooth and quiet to drive all Electric cars are like that. I got no problem with that.

[00:35:23]>> Yeah. It's just Why is it $64,000 and the range is not ideal?

[00:35:28]>> Yeah.

[00:35:29]>> Yeah.

[00:35:29]>> All right. We'll have fun with that.

[00:35:31]Thanks for um thanks for letting me stick your X3 up on my hoist and lose my 10 mm socket in the process. We better get the wheels back on this car. Look, we did this today so that you just get a window into just how glamorous it is being an automotive YouTuber and give you a bit of a look at the BTS on the behind the scenes, in other words, on uh what what this is like. And uh I don't know, maybe if you uh if you really hate your uh day job sufficiently, it might motivate you to do it. For everyone else, it might just be the uh motivation they need to get their nose back on the grindstone, mate. Yeah, that's it.

[00:36:12]Thanks, John.

[00:36:12]>> All right, we'll check you later.