SA vs Ghana: Immigration Dispute Escalates | AU Debate, Repatriation & Diplomatic Tensions Explained

[00:00:05][music] A diplomatic dispute between South Africa and Ghana has intensified following Ghana's decision to seek broader African Union engagement over recent anti-legal migrant tensions in South Africa. Ghana's government has raised concerns about the treatment of some African nationals and has received support from the economic community of West African stateawas for its request that the matter be placed on the agenda of a future African Union meeting. South Africa has rejected claims that its immigration enforcement policies amount to xenophobia, maintaining that it has a sovereign right to enforce its immigration laws while condemning violence and intimidation against any person. The South African government has argued that lawful immigration enforcement should not be confused with xenophobia and has called for dialogue on the broader causes of irregular migration, including economic conditions, governance, and regional cooperation. The diplomatic disagreement highlights the difficult balance between protecting the rights and safety of migrants, respecting the sovereignty of individual states to enforce their laws, and strengthening cooperation among African countries. As discussions move to continental forums, many observers say constructive engagement, accurate information and adherence to the rule of law will be essential to resolving tensions while preserving regional relations.

[00:01:28]Welcome back to this unfolding diplomatic spat between South Africa and Ghana, if we can call it a spat. Ghana has now secured the backing of fellow Echoas member states. That's the e economic community of West African states uh member states for its petition to the African Union over what it describes as xenophobic attacks in this country. International relations expert and former ambassador Dr. Kings Makubella joins us now to weigh in on the diplomatic implications of that move. Good evening. Thank you for your time. This comes from the 69th ordinary session of the Echoas authority of heads of state and government and it was held in Longi in Republic of Sierra Leon. Um and it comes to a a resolution that says the uh Echo's authority of heads of state will now back Ghana's petition for the AU to table this issue as a debate at it upcoming uh assembly. How big of a a a victory a diplomatic coup is this for Ghana in this sort of I don't [clears throat] know subtle spat between South Africa and Ghana >> good evening I I think Ghana would have preferred a resolution h that echoas would lift up the matter to h the next head of state summit the fact that the summit took a decision to support Ghana, not to take a resolution that this is the position of the East African community.

[00:03:10]>> It's quite telling on its own. It means there are convergence views within the the authority. So there's no consensus. That's that's what it tells you. But what is concerning tulas if you look at um I think paragraph 49 the language it's it's not the language that it's used by a summit of Hezo state.

[00:03:35]Hezo stateates try to nuance their language very carefully. It doesn't matter how delicate and problematic the issue is to to really say this despiceable act. I think it's it's it's not the language that is used by the summit and that's really regrettable. It shows lack of diplomatic nuance in terms of the summit.

[00:04:00]>> So I I'm interested in the first point you make there Dr. Makubella, the subtle nuance that is entailed in paragraph 51 where the authority of the heads of state decides to support Ghana's decision to table the matter as an agenda item. You are saying there's something to be read in the fact that it's not tabled as the authority decides to table the matter at the AU assembly.

[00:04:28]>> The economic community of West African states has expressed support for Ghana's request that recent migration related concerns be considered at the African Union level. As a result, the responsibility now rests with Ghana too.

[00:04:45]motivate and present its case and seek support from other Omember states if it wishes the issue to be placed on the agenda of a future O meeting. The development illustrates how continental issues are addressed through diplomatic engagement rather than unilateral decisions. If Ghana proceeds with its request, it will need to persuade other African Union member states that the matter warrants discussion at the continental level. South Africa for its part is expected to present its own position emphasizing its sovereign right to enforce its immigration laws while rejecting unlawful violence and maintaining that immigration enforcement should be distinguished from xenophobia.

[00:05:35]The outcome will depend on discussions among all member states which will consider the issue within the framework of the union's procedures and the principles of state sovereignty, regional cooperation and the rule of law.

[00:05:50]>> Absolutely. That's where that's where the challenge is and I think the authority understands that it's not its mandate to table a matter that's related to a to a a totally different region of the African continent. And that's why they are very careful to say this is their decision. So it means Ghana is the one that must motivate for this and must go and lobby for this to be included as an agenda item. And I think I think it's quite clear to Las that the summit did not want to take this as its position.

[00:06:26]What they did is to support a fellow member state was raising concern to say well we support you to elevate this matter to the summit. So it's up to you now. So Ghana it's on its own. It's not a matter of echoas that is going to the summit. It's a matter of Ghana on its own raising this matter to the summit.

[00:06:45]In response, Pritoria has said that uh the attempt to isolate South Africa uh from the rest of the continent to diplomatically isolate South Africa will fail. So it's clear now is it Dr. Makubella that um something is not right between uh South Africa and Ghana in terms of that relationship. something seems to be broken and and and Ptoria saying that they will not uh fall for that and and and and this whole issue of uh almost being backed into a corner where any talk of regularizing and and and implementing the country's migration laws enforcing them is then taken in the way that it's taken in Ghana that they will not back down to that. But clearly something is broken in that relationship isn't it? Quite honestly to Israel, it means there's tension between Ghana and South Africa. Under normal circumstances, you would have expected a diplomatic exchange on this matter and finding a resolution between the two countries. The fact that you don't see that and you see in this exchange of notes, it it's quite concerning that this matter has reached this stage. But but what is very critical on this issue to last it's how Ghana is going to navigate this and to take a matter that belong to a total different sub region and elevated to the summit without a consultation and without a concurrence of the region concern that's where the big issue Ghana will be confronted with >> South Africa's communicate could also have more explicitly reaffirmed a principle that underpinned international relations every sovereign state has the right and responsibility to administer and enforce its own immigration laws in accordance with its constitution and international obligations. At the same time, all African Union member states share an interest in ensuring that their citizens traveling, working or residing in other countries comply with the host country's legal requirements. The communicate could have encouraged stronger cooperation among EU member states to address irregular migration through lawful channels, improve the timely processing of travel documents, strengthen border management, and facilitate the orderly return of nationals where necessary. Such an approach would emphasize that protecting migrants, rights, and respecting a country's immigration laws are complimentary objectives, not opposing ones. Continued diplomatic engagement and regional cooperation remain important too. resolving migration challenges while respecting both state sovereignty and the rights of individuals >> with and the fact that again tulas the the communicate is not addressing the fact that they should have urged West African national to respect the laws and immigration regulations of South Africa >> to have a a balanced statement that really addresses that they should have done that >> well perhaps we're getting ahead of ourselves and as a parting shot, how do you foresee the debate now uh that that Ghana is proposing for the AU assembly of heads of state? How do you foresee it unfolding because South Africa through uh presidential spokesperson Vincent Mua has said bring it on. We are happy you are bringing on this uh debate. We look forward to engaging you on the nuances that have to do with migration and the push and pull factors. But given that for instance on the issue of whether or not there's been violence and and and the killing specifically killing of Ghanaian nationals in South Africa which Ptoria rejects that there are any killings related to the protests but Ghana insists that actually there have been. How do you foresee that playing itself out in terms of the battle of the narrative at that debate? I think I think this is one area to LA where I would support the president sending envoys to different sub regions to really go and explain this because the Ghanaians quite honestly they're basing themselves on a deep fake and fake news that has been circulating. If you look at some of the uh footages they're relying on, they've been doctorred. Of course, there are problems. There have been problems in the past attacks on foreign national that majority of South Africans don't identify with I reject that. So that's quite clear, but this is one area that I think the president should send envoys to go and speak to different sub regions to explain exactly what's going on and really to try to defeat this thing that Sarafa should become a an agenda item of the AU on an issue that Sarafa it seemed to be handling notwithstanding the weaknesses within Sarafa to try to deal with this issue. There are issues that I think Sarafia should have done better in terms of dealing with this particularly taking away this the seem uncontrollable activities of civil society and vigilantes to attack people at any time.

[00:12:00]So Sav should have done better in terms of dealing with those issues.

[00:12:04]>> All right, let's leave it there for this evening. Thank you for your time and your insights. Dr. Kings Lima Makubella is international relations expert and a former ambassador weighing in there on the developments coming out of Echoas feeding into the African.

[00:12:18]>> Acting government spokesperson Mley Gumble stated that South Africa rejects claims that the country is xenophobic following criticism from some African governments and reports that South African envoys had been summoned in relation to recent immigration tensions.

[00:12:36]He said, "South Africa remains committed to the principles of the African Union and regional cooperation while maintaining that every sovereign state has both the right and the responsibility to enforce its immigration laws in accordance with its constitution and international obligations. The recent diplomatic exchanges have reignited debate about how African countries should work together to manage migration. While governments have a legitimate interest in protecting the welfare of their citizens abroad, migration is a shared regional challenge that requires cooperation from both countries of origin and destination. Observers note that long-term solutions depend on stronger collaboration to address irregular migration, improve border management, combat human trafficking, and create economic opportunities across the continent. South Africa has maintained that enforcing immigration laws should not be equated with xenophobia, provided that enforcement is carried out lawfully, fairly, and with respect for human rights.

[00:13:50]touch base on just two things um as a start. The first part is about the classification of South Africa as xenophobic which I do believe that as government we are saying it's incorrect and we look at it in terms of how holistically xenophobia means. It means that as South Africans um we sort of have mistrust against foreigners. We have irrational fear against foreigners. um we we sort of generally don't trust and hate foreigners. That is totally untrue. As South Africans um and in South Africa as a state, we believe in democracy. We are a democratic nation that is um a built in the rule of law that embraces human dignity that has got that protects the rights of individuals particularly section 12 would protect the rights of people for freedom and for free for free movement. So basically um it is totally incorrect for whomsoever who classifies South Africa as a xenophobic state um to say so because we are a country that um is built in the rule of law and our constitution is grounded in terms of human dignity and in terms of um the pan-Africanism. A spokesperson for the Nigerian government has reaffirmed that relations between Nigeria and South Africa remain cordial despite recent public debate over immigration issues. According to the spokesperson, both governments have been working closely together to facilitate and coordinate the voluntary repatriation of Nigerian nationals who have chosen to return home from South Africa. He said the process reflects ongoing diplomatic cooperation between the two countries and addressing migration related matters through official channels. The spokesperson also sought to address reports circulating on social media, stating that the Nigerian government had not confirmed claims that Nigerian citizens had been injured, maimed, or killed in South Africa during the recent immigration related tensions.

[00:16:13]He urged the public to rely on verified information from official sources rather than unverified social media posts, adding that both governments remain in communication to ensure the safety and welfare of their respective citizens while continuing to strengthen bilateral relations and regional cooperation.

[00:16:39]The relations between Nigeria and South Africa are largely cordial. We we we we we recognize that and that is what we are also working on. We know our our bilateral relations are very very cordier and we appreciate what Mr. President his excellency president uh Siri Ramapuza has done in terms of to come out and issued statement particularly reminding that Africans you know that uh South Africa and Africans are like brothers and there's on their under obligation you know there's an oblig obligation on on the part of uh our brothers and sisters in South Africa to uh you know treat Africans as one as part of them and I can confirm here to everybody both the South African and Nigerian public that up to the as we speak up to the time we are speaking no Nigerian has been killed or maimed or violated in any way since the wave of de demonstration started. No Nigerian has been killed and I want to assure the Nigerian public as well as the uh parents who have their children uh schooling in South Africa that their children are safe. They are attending their lectures as it should and there's no harm being visited on them. I think it's important to to get that clear. you know that the demonstration no shop I've not had any report as as we speak that any Nigerian shop is being looted or has been visited with destruction or anything. So I think I need to make that clear so that in order to allay the fear and also to correct the narrative that are going on on the social media. Deputy President Paul Mashetile has reiterated the government's position that South Africans should not be labeled as xenophobic simply because there is a public debate about immigration and border management. He said the government's focus is on addressing irregular migration through the enforcement of existing immigration laws rather than targeting people on the basis of their nationality. He stressed that everyone entering or remaining in South Africa is expected to comply with the country's legal requirements including using lawful ports of entry and maintaining valid immigration status where applicable. Masatile's remarks come as immigration continues to dominate public and political debate.

[00:19:26]Many stakeholders have called for stronger border management, more efficient processing of visas and asylum applications and consistent enforcement of immigration legislation. At the same time, the government has maintained that enforcement must be carried out within the framework of the constitution with respect for human rights and the rule of law while distinguishing between lawful immigration enforcement and unlawful acts of intimidation or violence.

[00:19:58]Marchers have to respect and adhere to the laws and march peacefully.

[00:20:03]Amid recent immigration related protest, Mashhatila insists there's no xenophobia in South Africa, only opposition to illegal migration. He cautioned against lawlessness, urging citizens not to take matters into their own hands.

[00:20:21]>> Well, South Africa is not anti- foreigners.

[00:20:25]uh what we have been doing for years. We have been against illegal people come into account whether they are from Africa or anywhere in the world is something we will not allow but we will not be chasing Africans for the sake of it. Uh what we are saying is that let people come to our country. Yes, we want investments. We want to work with them to develop our own country but must be done legally. Ghana's high commissioner to South Africa Benjamin Kashi expressed concern about the circumstances surrounding the voluntary repatriation of some Ganaan nationals from South Africa. He said he believed stronger measures could have been taken to prevent intimidation and to reassure foreign nationals during the period leading up to the voluntary departures.

[00:21:16]Quashi also stated that many of the Ghanaans who registered for voluntary repatriation had originally entered South Africa lawfully. Although immigration authorities have said that compliance with immigration laws varies from person to person and is subject to official verification. The comments reflect the differing perspectives that have emerged during recent immigration related tensions. South Africa has consistently maintained that it has the sovereign right to enforce its immigration laws and border controls while also stating that enforcement must be carried out in accordance with the constitution and without unlawful violence or intimidation. At the same time, diplomatic engagement between South Africa and Ghana has continued with both governments coordinating voluntary repatriation efforts and reaffirming the importance of maintaining constructive bilateral relations despite differences over recent events.

[00:22:25]>> Well, let's continue then to discuss this further. We're now joined by Benjamin Kashi, Ghana's High Commissioner to South Africa. Hi Commissioner, very good afternoon to you and thank you so much for your time. So the original evacuation was delayed by screening procedures we understand. So as the first flight departs tomorrow, speak to us about just the numbers of Ganaian you are taking to Ghana tomorrow and does Ghana have a plan waiting for them when they land?

[00:22:56]>> Thank you very much. Um a very [clears throat] good afternoon to you and also to our cherished viewers. I think that the plan has been to evacuate Ghanaians who have felt um not welcome, who have felt that the the demonstrators have brought their lives to a standstill economically and these are people that government is um repatrating voluntarily. Um let me clear that misconception about um the people that we are repatriating. Um they are people who are legitimate in this country. um um more so have documents and have decided to repatrate back home voluntarily because they feel that they are not welcome anymore in South Africa.

[00:23:36]So the plan has been to evacuate almost about 800 of our citizens who have made that cry to the Ghana high commission and we have sent same uh to the presidency in Ghana. tomorrow. Um, we started with the first group that has to do with 300 uh people leaving to Ghana at 4:00 a.m. We are hoping that the Department of Transport and uh through the Department of International Relation will help us get the um um um landing permit so that we can we can take them.

[00:24:04]Everything is set. They've been screened by the Department of Home Affairs. Um they've been given the clean slate that they are able to go home and we are just waiting for the permit for the aircraft to land.

[00:24:13]>> Yeah. uh you say that uh most of those that will be departing are legitimate in the country of course unfortunately feeling unwelcomed.

[00:24:23]What happens to those that have not been documented in the country that also come from Ghana? Uh we know that they exist.

[00:24:31]You've also said it in some interviews.

[00:24:33]What happens to to those that may feel unsafe and want to be repatriated but they failed your screening processes?

[00:24:42]Ghana's high commissioner to South Africa Benjamin Kashi expressed frustration with what he described as delays in South Africa's immigration system. He argued that some Ganaan nationals who had applied to renew or regularize their permits remained in the country while awaiting decisions from the authorities and that prolonged administrative delays could affect their immigration status. Quashi maintained that many of the affected Ganaans had initially entered South Africa lawfully and suggested that delays in processing applications had contributed to their current circumstances. South African immigration authorities however have maintained that every individual's immigration status must be determined through the verification processes provided for under the immigration act officials have said that pending applications expired permits and other immigration matters are assessed on a case-bycase basis according to the law and that immigration status cannot be determined solely through diplomatic representations. The differing public statements underscore the need for continued cooperation between the two governments to resolve administrative challenges while ensuring that immigration laws are applied consistently, fairly and in accordance with South African legislation >> screening processes.

[00:26:16]>> Nobody has failed the screening processes. Um the process is such that um it is to determine whether you are Ghanaian, is to determine whether you have a criminal record or whatever in the country that will prevent you from going uh through the repatriation process. And um we've had a report every day when they do the screening, we have reports after they are done with.

[00:26:36]There's not been any adverse finding against any other Ghanaian who has those adverse h findings against their name so that they are not able to go. Let me reiterate that on the list we still have people that are undocumented. I have asked that let's have a discourse and understand what we call an undocumented immigrant. We have people in this country who came in had work permits worked for four years. Some worked for 3 years. After that their permits expired.

[00:27:02]Now what did they do? They went to the department of home affairs to ask for a renewal of their permits. four years down the line, five years down the line, six years down the line, these applications have not either been h approved or rejected. In that case, who are you to blame? That is why we are saying that we need to have a different discourse when it comes to documentations of foreigners in this country and rather all clustering all of them together and saying they they are illegal immigrants. Who are you to blame? We are supposed to ensure that state institutions like home affairs and others are made to work. If state institutions are working and people's visa or permits have expired and they've applied. If state institution decide that you are not to live in the country anymore then reject their permits. If not you keep them here in this country and they have the hope that the applications are going to be e e l looked into they go around with the receipts that they are carrying and I think that we should look at it. I'm not saying that it is not a canker. It is a canker when it comes to illegal migration. But let's define what it is.

[00:28:05]Let's let's let's be honest with each other. Let's not just jump to the triatrics of it and then say whatever we want to say. Let's make sure that we are all saying the right things and doing the right the right things.

[00:28:16]>> I think you're also alluding to the broader immigration um challenges that beset South Africa and I think uh a number of uh government officials have said that. But let's go back then to what has actually been said during this period by officials here in South Africa. You've said plainly that these are xenophobic attacks. Uh Premier Douly who we spoke to earlier today and several political parties including the ANC insists there is no xenophobia in South Africa. Both former President Tabbecki as well as the Durko Minister Ronald Lamoola say repatriation will not solve the underlying migration challenges. You are however putting people on a plane tomorrow. Is this Ghana is this you solving a Ghana problem? I mean what are your views to that uh and to those comments that have been made by South African authorities?

[00:29:12]>> What has the demonstrators been saying all this while whilst they stop people by the street? People who are not trained to be um um law enforcement people who don't know anything about immigration rules and regulations stopping people asking them for their passports claiming that you are not supposed to be in this country. What have they been saying? They've been saying that people are taking their jobs. They've been saying that black Africans who are their brothers and sisters are taking their jobs. In one stretch, we want to believe that what they are doing is wrong. In one stretch also, we want to believe that these are not xenophobic. How do you describe xenophobic attacks? What I'm saying is that the truth of the matter is that President Sir Ramaposa spoke about it.

[00:29:51]He gave a statement and he called on every South African citizen to desist from xenophobic attacks. Have you read the police statement? The statement that came from the police minister attributed what was happening in this country as xenophobic at us. This is not us reinventing the word. This is not us in Ghana saying that this is what is going on. Your president who we respect so much, we revere so much has said clearly that these xenophobic attacks must stop.

[00:30:17]Your police chief, which we believe that is a very reputable person in this country, has also said the xenophobic attacks must stop. So we are not reinventing the word. No, we are not.

[00:30:28]But we are saying that in all its form and spread, we are against these kind of acts or attacks on fellow black Africans from different countries. Let's solve it and solve it well. I understand that the people we are moving from Ghana, from South Africa to Ghana, um wouldn't solve the migration problem in South Africa, but at least at least we are showing good faith. Most of the people that we are going with which which is almost about um um one-third of it are people who are not documented. So we say >> Ghana high commissioner to South Africa Benjamin Kashi said the voluntary repatriation program is not only about bringing Ghanaian nationals home but also about helping them rebuild their lives. He explained that the Ganain government intends to support returnees through reintegration initiatives aimed at improving their prospects, including assistance with employment opportunities and other programs designed to help them become economically self-sufficient.

[00:31:33]Quashi said the objective is to reduce the likelihood that returning citizens will feel compelled to migrate again under irregular circumstances. He noted that sustainable reintegration can contribute to long-term economic stability for returns while also strengthening cooperation between Ghana and South Africa in managing migration through lawful and coordinated channels.

[00:32:01]The remarks underscore the broader view that addressing migration effectively requires not only immigration enforcement by destination countries but also efforts by countries of origin to create opportunities for their citizens at home >> documented. So we say let's go home.

[00:32:21]Let's go make sure that we we we we reintegrate them into the Ghanaian society. We make sure that they don't travel out again to be called illegal immigrants. How do we do it? By bringing them back home, integrate them into the Ghanaian society, get them jobs to do and for us to understand that we we cannot grow in isolation. We have to do this intertwined and that is exactly what Ghana is doing.

[00:32:45]>> And I want to talk about that. I want to talk about what the diplomatic solution is. You think because uh we obviously can see that there is this disconnect. I mean, Minister Lamola says that the Southern African Development Community, that's Saddak, of course, ministers of foreign affairs, that retreat has reaffirmed its shared commitment to strengthening regional solidarity and and to build a more resilient um uh sadic region. Is Ghana still pushing for this particular issue to be on the AU's agenda? what do you think will be you know up and and top of that list from a diplomatic perspective in terms of uh dealing with this matter and mending relations.

[00:33:32]>> Um I think that we have always said that the way to go is through diplomatic engagement. My foreign affairs minister and the honor um the the honorable Lamola have spoken on countless occasions. Um they've looked at the diplomatic solution to this problem.

[00:33:47]We've had discussions with Deco. We've had discussions that have been facilitated by the honorable Lamola himself. H we've had meetings where ambassador Seolo has sat in Ambassador Hyame go and co all of them have one thing in common. We all agree that this should be solved through the diplomatic channel. It is a conanker. Illegal immigration over the years has been a conquer to every country across the globe. We're looking at the dynamics when it come to South Africa. We admit the figures are high. there should be something fundamentally wrong with the system or the structures that have made things to look the way that they are. H diplomatically I can assure you that the two countries are speaking. We continue to speak on daily basis to look at how we are able to solve this problem. We are not doing it in isolation. But again, if you want us to solve this diplomatically, people don't need to take the laws into their own hands.

[00:34:38]Respect state institutions, respect authority, make sure you follow the layown rules and regulations. And I'm sure that if these were being done in a proper way, if immigration officers have stopped Ghanaians on the way and ask that can I have a look at your passports and they looked at those passports and they said I am an immigration officer.

[00:34:55]Your passport shows that you are illegal in this country. That makes sense. But if you have somebody who met someone on the street of Sue, ask them to show their passport. They showed this passport and you said that they are illegal in the country yet the person travels through the airport to Acra Ghana without being stopped by an immigration officer then who is at fault. It means that you are not trained to take a passport of some to in to to invariably think that this person is illegal. You on the surface of it believe that he's illegal but the records and the systems at the border management authority at Orat Tambbo said you are legal. You can leave the country. I think that that is the disconnect that we are having but diplomatically we'll solve this. We all have to come together whether we like it or not. It's a crisis. It's a global crisis and we need to do this collectively >> and and while there is that disconnect uh from from your end you know just being a Ganaian and obviously having this repatriation process being undertaken when you listen to the voices on the ground particularly from the state saying yes they have you know taken too long to act on deeply structural social economic conditions that affect many South Africans millions of South Africans in fact and when you try to have then these diplomatic conversations with your counterparts from South Africa what is your understanding and your appreciation of the problem >> the recent debate has highlighted the different perspectives surrounding migration in South Africa he failed to acknowledge the country's unique historical and socioeconomic challenges which exists as the result of the legacy of aparate persistently high unemployment, poverty, and inequality, which they believe place significant pressure on public services, and limited economic opportunities. From this perspective, many citizens view stronger immigration enforcement as one aspect of addressing these broader structural challenges. At the same time, Ghana's high commissioner has welcomed public assurances from the south, African government that foreign nationals will be protected from unlawful violence and intimidation. The discussion also reflects the balance that South Africa's constitutional democracy seeks to maintain. Citizens have the right to freedom of expression, peaceful assembly and protest. While the state has a duty to uphold the rule of law, protect everyone's rights and enforce immigration legislation fairly. Then it believes that the will of the people as a fundamental principle of democracy is not disrespected and disregarded. As diplomatic engagement continues, observers note that recognizing both South, Africa's domestic challenges and the importance of regional cooperation will be essential to finding practical, lawful and sustainable solutions to migration issues.

[00:38:02]>> Well, I think that the South African authorities have given us cause to believe that they are truly truly truly against this um whole act that is happening. Um the president made a statement. Um we've heard voices of conscience in this country make statements. Um the home affairs minister um has made statements. We've heard um the the the Deco boss who is honorable Lamola making statements. It gives us that comfort. But you see when the president gave that instructions or that statement um indicating that he's calling on these groups to stop what they are doing and giving the police the chance to arrest people and and and prosecute them. It gave us hope. But in what stretch of it? The moment the president finished speaking, you have somebody go on TV, one of the demonstrators or the leader of the demonstrator telling us as foreigners in their country that please do not listen to what the president is saying. We cannot guarantee your safety on the after June 30th in this country. Don't listen to the president. Go home. Now what do we expect? We expect an immediate action against such a person.

[00:39:12]You're not bigger than the commander-in-chief of the South African Defense Forces. You are not bigger than any other voice of conscience that speaks in this country. But to make this categorical statement in public view and everybody listening to it that defeats the purpose of us trying to believe that the president has spoken. We believe that the president has spoken. We believe that the president has the authority to let the security forces deal with this situation. But are we going to have another situation where it will be us against foreign um it will be South Africans taking the laws into their own hands going to shop from shop after the June 30th and how are we going to solve it? Would it be too late? Would it be too little action from all of us including we as de diplomats and the government of South Africa? I think that if the government of South Africa is able to bring this people to the drawing table and say yes you have legitimate concerns but the approach to which you are trying to handle this is not the right way to go. I think that everybody else will will continue to support the government.

[00:40:10]>> But it is your view then that you appreciate that that stance is not a government's stance. it's not a South African government stance and that it is a a set number of South Africans who have these views but who speak about these structural issues that the state has also uh you know commented on in terms of yes we've actually taken too long to address some of these challenges >> I think that we all we all understand the statement from government we know that government is not part of this group we know that government is not funding this group we know that this group doesn't represent the view of government but what we are saying that this is the these are the people that have taken the laws into their own hands, destroyed property, destroyed people's lives, gone after people in ways that are so inhumane and we are saying that government should do something about it and we believe that the government will do something about them.

[00:41:00]>> Mr. Guashi, thank you so much for your time. South Africa's head of immigration enforcement within regional said that during the verification process of approximately 300 Ghanaian nationals who registered for voluntary repatriation only 10 were found to have valid immigration status while the remainder were processed under the applicable immigration procedures. His remarks focused on the outcome of the verification process conducted by South African authorities. Van Neil's comments appear to differ from earlier remarks by Ghana's high commissioner Benjamin Quashi who said many of the Ghanaians seeking voluntary repatriation had entered or were in South Africa lawfully the differing public statements highlight the importance of distinguishing between diplomatic positions and the findings of official immigration verification processes ultimately a person's immigration Status is determined through the relevant legal and administrative procedures carried out by the competent authorities based on the evidence available in each individual case. As discussions between the two governments continue, both South Africa and Gaav said they remain committed to cooperating on voluntary repatriation and broader migration issues through diplomatic channels.

[00:42:28]Well, the government of Ghana has decided to repatriate its citizens back home following the wave of protest against undocumented immigrants in the country. But as we speak, we are now at the Tambo where they are being processed to go back home. But for more on this, we are now joined by an immigration officer and thank you very much for your time, sir. And can you please tell us exactly what is happening now? Because uh we were told that the flight will leave at 4 and it was delayed until 6:00. What is the latest in terms of uh uh the flight taking off?

[00:43:03]>> Well uh let me first greet South Africa and um the opportunity that we can engage.

[00:43:10]I think what's important uh is to ensure that there is compliance with all the procedures of the South African government but also to look at the individual departments that is responsible for this and I'm talking about your dero I'm talking about the department of home affairs I'm talking about the South African police services and many other departments within the natur structure it is important that uh it was important for us that we go through a process of verifications and checks and make that those who are departing are indeed people that we can allow to depart. So there was indeed a need for us to go and look at the verification processes against some of our security systems.

[00:43:52]Department of Home Affairs is one of those in terms of immigration um procedures. So what happened is that we worked throughout the night and we had hoped as we had agreed with the embassy that we have the 300 names of people that will depart. But what happened here is that when it was a little bit of a long night because we walked through the night and uh we found ourselves with uh some amendments to the list that we had to make sure that even those amendments are still in compliance with uh what our requirements are for the people to depart. So it's pretty much uh the first flight that we experiencing. I hope that it will improve with the next flight is happening on Sunday but uh it's just uh make sure that our procedures are followed.

[00:44:37]>> In terms of other challenges you mentioned the list it was had to be amended but in terms of other challenges what did you experience?

[00:44:45]>> Well what we have found is that of the 300 individuals that are on that list uh we only found 10 of them being legal in the country. The rest of them are all illegal without documents or actually not complying have been overstayed. But uh there are some sort of uh sanctions that needs to be taken and the department of home affairs will indeed make sure that those uh are implemented >> because now they are leaving. What penalties are going to be meed out to these people? So any person in terms of the immigration act that overstays in the country obviously will be banned from the country and uh not be allowed come back into the country. So that is uh the uh on the side of the immigration uh legislative provisions.

[00:45:29]>> The government of Ghana says that they're going to uh repatriate another group after this one. So in terms of uh comp compiling a list, have they started compiling another list?

[00:45:41]So I just had an engagement with the ambassador also uh this morning and indicated that uh it is uh critical that we have those uh that information rather by today so that we make sure that we do not get ourselves in a sort of similar situation. There is a flight on Sundays.

[00:45:59]We hope to have uh this uh next list verified by latest on Saturday to make sure