This video captures a Kenyan Senate session discussing critical environmental and land management issues, including river pollution in Kitui County, agricultural land subdivision, and the operationalization of landfills. Senators raised concerns about NEMA's enforcement capabilities, the need for environmental safeguards, and the importance of protecting agricultural land for food security. The session highlighted the gap between environmental regulations and their implementation, emphasizing the need for stronger accountability mechanisms and sustainable land use planning.
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LIVE: Hot Senate proceedings today, Wednesday 22nd July 2026 afternoon Session!
Added:overall of food security in the county.
Three, whether the county government tracks the cumulative impact of approved subdivision and change of user transactions for agricultural land on agriculture productivity and household food security within the county and if so to obtain the current data on the same. Lastly, Mr. Speaker, the measures to safeguard high potential agricultural land from indiscriminate subdivision and conversion to an agricultural use and to generally promote sustainable land use planning in Kisumu city. Thank you, Mr. >> Next is Senator Anuka.
Um I thank you Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, um my statement or my request for a statement is on the poisoning of um and contamination of rivers in Kitui County. Mr. Speaker, sir, I rise pursuant to standing order 531 uh to seek a statement from the standing committee on land, environment and natural resources um on a matter of uh counter concern regarding the increasing pollution and contamination of rivers flowing into and through Kitwi County, particularly the AI and Tana rivers.
Mr. Speaker, sir, these rivers at the river and Tana River are lifelines for irrigation, livestock and water for domestic use. Yet upstream industrial, municipal and mining activities have degraded degraded water quality, threatening food security, public health and community livelihoods.
The contamination of these rivers has become a pressing environmental and soioeconomic crisis.
Communities depending on them face declining agricultural productivity.
Risks to livestock and exposure to waterborn diseases.
Urgent interventions are needed to safeguard both the environment and the people of Kitoui County.
In the statement, the speaker, the committee should address the following. One, the measures taken by the National Environment Management Authority, NEMA, and other relevant agencies to hold accountable in accountable industries, municipalities, mining operations or any other entities responsible for discharging pollutants into these rivers. detailing enforcement actions, compliance and prosecutions if any undertaken. to the findings by NEMA, the water resources authority and other relevant government agencies regarding the sources, nature and severity of contamination before the rivers flow into and through Kitou County, including the results of water quality monitoring conducted over the last five years.
Number three, safeguards for communities outlining government interventions to protect farmers, livestock keepers, and households that depend on these rivers, including continuous water quality monitoring, public health advisories, environmental restoration programs, and support to affected farmers. And lastly, number four, the long-term interventions describing policy, regulatory and interount measures uh to eliminate pollution, restore ecological integrity and guarantee, save water access for irrigation, livestock production and domestic use.
Speaker, I thank you and and I beg your indulgence again today as I did yesterday that the committee, Mr. Speaker, to which this statement shall be assigned will move with speed to deal with this matter. That's a committee led by the senator from Mombasa, Senator Faki. I thank you, Senator Joe.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
I rise pass on to standing order 531 to seek a statement from the standing committee on land, environment, and natural resources on a matter of countywide concern regarding the oper operationalization of the Gono Ladfield in Muranga County.
Mr. Speaker sir, while the commissioning of the facility by the county government of Muranga marked a significant milestone in improving uh solid waste management, concerns remain about the implementation of key environmental safeguards, security measures and community relations that were integral to the project's uh design. In the statement, the committee should address the following. One, whether the county government has commenced the 250 m tree buffer around the lad field and give the expected timeline for completion. Two, the schedule for fencing the entire lad field to secure it against theft, vandalism, encroachment and un unauthorized access. Three, the budgetary provisions made me for the establishment of the tree buffer and the construction of the perimeter fence including the implementation schedule for both activities.
for the strategies by the county government to ensure adherence to environmental and social impact assessment uh ESIA, the environmental management and coordination act EMCA and the National Environmental Environmental Management Authority NEMA conditions alongside mechanisms for public participation, grievance, redress and fostering harmonious relations with neighboring communities. I thank you Mr. Speaker.
Yes, I want to allow comments for at least 20 minutes. Also, I want to start with Senator Mama.
Senator Ona, are you ready for comments or you are queuing for some other business? I'm ready for >> just under two minutes. Proceed.
>> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I want to comment on the the statement for Senator Wam of Ketui uh about pollution of the rivers. Uh Mr. Speaker, this is an issue that is countrywide. Most of the rivers are polluted and I don't know what the committee would do to Neymar uh so that they can clean the rivers and so that they can uh also deal with the people who are polluting the rivers. Mr. Speaker, I think uh the committee of uh Senator Seeki should really call the Nema and uh I think Mr. Speaker, Nema should be called in this house because now this week and even last week we were dealing with pollution of rivers. So Nema should be called in this house to come and answer why there is so much pollution of the rivers. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Mr. Speaker, the issue raised by professor about land use begs for a wider and more generalized answer. Mr. Speaker, we don't know at what stage the National Land Commission is usually involved.
The country will remember, Mr. Speaker, when the government came up with the so-called affordable housing program.
They just attacked property in towns.
For example, if you go to Kakamega, one of the most affluent parts of the city is Milimmani.
It was attacked. Houses were raised down.
We supported because we thought the government knew what it was doing only for it to end up using a half an acre of over 20 acres that were pulled down. Our town now looks like a city where there was a war because buildings have been destroyed. The so-called affordable houses have not been put up. This should not be allowed. The National Land Commission should be consulted on such important issues.
Mr. Speaker, the issue raised by Senator Wua, the senator of Kitoui, it is so important.
I don't know the role played by the ministry on environment.
Mr. Speaker, you go to I had an opportunity 3 weeks ago to visit a hero town to specifically, Mr. Speaker, inspect a floger program. And Mr. Speaker, I found that the county government of Kisumu using FOGA funds is actually Senator Boner, you know we said 2 minutes but I want to add 30 seconds so that you conclude your you conclude what you are just sayinging >> because you know comments are just a comment bit.
>> Thank you Mr. Speaker for your magnaminti. Mr. Speaker, the same thing applies to Kakamega at Muluna village in Kakamega town where we have the dam that is supposed to handle sewage. The thing collapsed years ago. It has become a gracing ground for goats and pigs. Mr. Speaker, raw seawa is just rotating in Kakamega town. Where is government national level? Since the the county government of Kakamega has collapsed anyway, the national government should come in and save us. I thank you, Mr. Speaker.
Senator Briola, >> honorable speaker, I rise to uh give a comment on the statement by the senator of Kui, Senator Enoa.
Honorable speaker, the issue of pollution must concern us as a country.
And honorable speaker, most of because of uh lack of water, most of people along rivers use the water directly without treatment. They use it for domestic use. Honorable speaker, and it is because of that that uh honorable speaker, there are a lot of emerging diseases that are related to sanitation.
Honorable speaker. So honorable speaker, the issue of pollution must not only be addressed by Nema, but even as a country, we must enhance public education to our people to know that polluting the rivers is actually endangering their lives. Honorable speaker, honorable speaker, once I was a CC in Homer Bay for environment and there are people who would throw garbage on some rivers and then the public would call me to tell me that we should be going to collect that baggage. But our people must know that taking care of themselves begin uh with their own management. So honorable speaker, not only the environment should concern us about this pollution, but honorable speaker, it will add to the cost of the treatment that our people are uh undertaking. And so honorable speaker, I support this and the ministry, the county government, Nema and the ministry of environment must combine all efforts to look at this and not only in Kitoui but also in the whole country. Honorable speaker and lastly on the statement by Senator Gender. Honorable speaker, we need to know that land rem.
>> Thank you, Mr. Speaker. I rise to support the statement by the senator for Kitoui, Senator Wamba on pollution and contamination of rivers. Mr. Speaker, this is something that cuts across the whole country. It may not be specific to Kitoui County, Mr. Speaker, because you know rivers flow through uh through several counties. Mr. Speaker, the major missing link has been Nema. I am privileged to sit in the committee on land, environment and natural natural resources. Mr. speaker and we have been to places I remember you visited Sukari industries somewhere in Niwa and Mr. Speaker found that Nema had not done what they're supposed to do Mr. Speaker it's a big matter of great concern that rivers that flow ultimately to the Indian Ocean can be polluted contaminated with Nema doing nothing Mr. Speaker, this will cause a problem not only to the users of the waters of these rivers but also to marine life because at the end of the day every other river in this country Mr. Speaker flows into the Indian Ocean and so I support that we should the committee should take priority on this matter and see to it that we prevent these rivers we protect them against further pollution because we'll be risking the lives of people.
Mr. Speaker, other than waterborn diseases that may come from this pollution and contamination, Mr. Speaker, we can get also other illnesses especially because some of this contamination comes from industrial waste. And Mr. Speaker, could be this is the reason that we have had a rise in cases of cancers. Mr. speaker and I think I would want to urge my chair Senator Faki to give priority to this particular statement so that we can be able to protect our lives, the marine life and the lives and health, >> Senator Ona.
As speaker, I have actually been thinking about uh what Senator Wua has talked about and Mr. Speaker, I have I have an an idea I think which might help us because you know we've been discussing this thing of NEMA for the last 3 weeks.
Mr. Speaker, why can't the environmental committee of this house get out of here and just visit the country?
You see, Mr. Speaker, what we have is that like in Kissi, we only have one name officer who is supposed to go through all the sewer, run through all the water um um water systems in Kissi, making sure that he's looking at the trees which are being cut and all these things we are talking about. And Mr. Mr. Speaker, my honest feeling actually is that like we have said before the way we've been having where the Senate goes to Machinani, I think some of our committees, Mr. Speaker, we don't even have to be in this house. Can we go around our country and look at the mess we have created so that then we can come up with solutions which are practical so that when we are discussing and looking at what needs to be done, the committee should just be making recommendations as to what we need to do.
Because Mr. Speaker, we have been coming to this house and it's not just environmental matters. It is on water.
It is on I mean I could name 20 things which are not going on well. So Mr. Speaker, I would like to say that I think let the committees visit the county governments and then each committee can be writing a report. I don't see what we are doing here sitting in this house every day doing nothing.
We sit here doing nothing.
>> Senator Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sir, >> he's making his comment.
>> Is your time wasted? You have two minutes.
>> Okay, Mr. Speaker, I just want to call my brother Senator Wyonga to order because our the reason we sit here is a constitutional obligation under article 96 and one of the roles is to do legislation. So, I would want to appeal to him. He's a one of the season legislators. He should be well verssed with what we do. I think he needs to capture that. I know he was with Matiangi in the morning but he needs to capture up to date. Mr. Speaker, secondly and finally as a country and I agree with Senator Professor Tom agenda on the issue of against conversion of agricultural land into commercial use.
Mr. Speaker, where I come from there, we should push for what we call land consolidation policy. And I'm saying this knowing that Senator Professor Tommo agenda is a landlord lecturer who has written extensively on the principles of conveyancing in his book called Professor Tommo agenda. I think the second edition Mr. Speaker as a country the the land does not expand the limit the growth that we have 55.5 million Kenyans will continue and Mr. Speaker that is why the wisdom of Dr. William Samuel Arab for coming up with affordable housing. This is the reason people who want to scrub for affordable housing should listen to this Mr. Speaker because we cannot even the kissy where are you coming from Mr. Speaker people there are so many that there is no land to expand to the solution is promoting affordable housing program Mr. speaker and we must support the president so that we can ensure we have more agriculture land to produce more food. I'm wondering what our brothers are talking about when they want to scrub affordable housing. Where will you feed Kenyans from? Where will they? Most of them here close their doors when Kenyans go begging for food. Mr. Speaker, Mr. speaker. Therefore, we must support their >> Senator Senator Manzo.
>> Senator Manzo has the floor.
>> Thank you, uh, Mr. Speaker, for an opportunity to comment. I would like to comment on the uh statement requested by senator Ambua the senator for Mr. Speaker I want to say that uh the two rivers two main rivers is earthy and Tana and particularly earthy river where Takadam is be prepared and I hope it's going to be finished in the future it's going to be completed uh Mr. Speaker, the pollution from Nairobi is extremely amazing, is a lot. And I remember the the president commissioned some team to begin cleaning the rivers in Nairobi.
Mr. Speaker, as soon as the president left, that team left and the water continues to be polluted and because of the industries, I believe it has casues all the way to Kifi, Mr. speaker and therefore currently there's even pollution by plastics uh plastic papers uh plastic bottles and all this go up to the ocean. Mr. Speaker, something has to be done quickly by Nema and I want to say that the last time I got some explanation from Neymar, they were talking of plant you know planting baboo trees along the river which I don't think is sufficient. Mr. speaker we need to deal with the symptoms and we need to cure you know the water pollution particularly from Nairobi rivers I don't think Nema is doing you know a serious job on this I it's not doing at all it has relaxed on his job and and and I think this house has to take serious measures against Neymar if Neymar is not going to perform it tasks I think Mr. speaker should be reconstituted and we look for fresh team fresh scientist to take matter seriously. I hope the problem is not funding should be funded well so that it can be able to clean out the rivers in Nairobi clean out all the rivers and apply the law Mr. Speaker so that the polluttor pays the polluttor must pay the companies which are polluting river earth Mr. Speaker must pay I thank you I support >> Senator Joyce Kir Senator Mandu.
>> Uh thank you very much uh honorable speaker. Honorable speaker I want to commend on the statement sought by professor Tommo Jender on the issue of um subdivision of our land. Honorable speaker, honorable speaker, food security is a serious matter for every nation and continuous subdivision of agrical land will put this country at risk of having to import food. Honorable speaker when we are converting our rich soils for commercial purposes. Honorable speaker honorable speaker I want to commend um senator agenda for this statement and as the house and the committee for lands that is going to consider this statement that they consider amending the land act.
Honorable speaker I speak uh from experience knowing that this land function is a shared function between national government and county government. Honorable speaker, because of that confusion and because of the amendments in the land act that then abolished the land boards that were responsible for approving the subdivisions. Honorable speaker, you would find surveyors, land officers carrying out subdivisions at the conffort of the offices, dismantling the much needed agricultural land. Honorable speaker, honorable speaker, I want to ask the committee for lands to be diligent and propose amendments so that where necessary, we can actually as is now stop any further subdivision of agural land in this country. If you move around our towns and our cities, honorable speaker, you will find a lot of empty spaces that have not been developed. And yet we are going further from the towns, from the cities to subdivide a gradual land. There is need for controlled expansion of towns so that agricultural land can be preserved for food production. I therefore want to second and support this statement and ask the committee for lands to consider limiting the subdivision of agricultural land. Thank you >> Senator Professor Tomenda.
>> Uh m Mr. Speaker Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, I want to speak to the statement by the senator for Kitoui, uh, Senator Wamba on the on pollution. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, their concerns about environmental regulation and the powers bestowed upon NEMA under the Environmental Management and Coordination Act 1999 are important. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, it is also important to note that there are two other institutions that are created by EMA. The Public Complent Committee and the National Environment Tribunal where, Mr. Speaker, I served for 6 years and therefore Mr. Speaker, I understand the underpinnings around pollution. Mr. Speaker, the regulations that are set out that require the intervention of NEMA for various undertakings, Mr. Speaker, including compliance by factories, Mr. Speaker, and the problems of pollution, my lord, Mr. Speaker, arise from the fact that, Mr. Speaker, there is no policing or supervision by NEMA to ensure that factories or industries do not discharge pollutants into rivers. Mr. Speaker, Mr. Speaker, the this problem is not unique, Mr. Speaker, to the Tana River or the Ay River that flow into uh to to the ocean. Mr. Speaker, but there has to be, Mr. speaker supervision by the arms of >> neator >> to ensure that what is finally discharged Mr. Speaker are not pollutants that endanger the lives of Kenyans because our citizens the speaker drink directly from these rivers Mr. Speaker this problem is not unique to Kitoui County because Mr. Speaker, in Kisumu County, we have factories that process sugarcane that also pollute rivers directly because there's no supervision by NEMA. Nema, Mr. Speaker, needs a wing that will ensure that factories pollute only or discharge only water or waste that that does not endanger the lives of citizens. Mr. Speaker and this is a call not just because the law is there. It is simply the implementation of the law. I thank you Mr. Speaker Senator Abbas.
>> Okay. Uh honorable speaker I want to contribute to Muma Wa's uh um statement speaker actually what is happening in this country is actually and unfortunately there's a lot of pollution and never has taken the back seat to control pollutions in this country it's not only in Kui it's all over this country honorable speaker if you go around and see rivers in this country most of them especially in Nairobi and the big towns is so polluted that you don't even you get disgusted to see to take water from there honorable speaker one other thing is that actually deforestations along the river banks is taking place so much that the river is polluted because of that excite I mean activities honorable speaker one thing we need to do now is that we need to have a policy and a serious one again that can be enforced by NMA that all the rivers, river banks must be protected. That the rivers people must not blow or farm 50 m from the river banks so that at least we can be able to contain those trees along the river bank so to avoid too much pollution. Honorable speaker, if you go to the Aloal, you see rivers passing in the middle of of the cities and they look so nice and so clean. So we can do that actually in this country also. Also the other one honorable speaker I want also to contribute to professor Jed statement. Honorable speaker food security is a very important this country. This country actually is now becoming only we only receive food from outside. We are becoming consumers. We cannot be able to commit I mean make our own security for food production. Honorable speaker land subdivision should be stopped. Two, land for production of agriculture must be at least have a certain size like Senator Mohammed.
Chairman, we are coming to the close of the the the statement. Sah Yes, at the middle Mr. Speaker sir, I seek for your uh direction. Yesterday when we were supposed to make comments on the statements that were assort only two senators commented and uh we only had 6 minutes before uh we had janned. So we are I'm asking whether we can still comment on the statement that was sought yesterday because we didn't comment.
Senator Munajaki chairman dealing with tell us something about every day there are issues in this house.
>> Uh >> can you brief us on maybe your plan as a committee on NMA issues. You remember the CS was here last week.
>> Yes.
>> And a lot of members many members raise this issues about NEMA.
>> I thank you Mr. Speaker. I remember last week the CS uh environment was uh uh present in the house and even the answers that she gave were very uh unsatisfactory to the members who attended the session. Mr. Mr. speakers.
I think we need a plenary to to discuss the NEMA issues in this house because uh if you look at the issues of uh pollution of rivers, uh pollution of the environment arising maybe from mining activities, pollution of the sea. For instance, in Mombasa, the Mombasa Water and Sanitation Company drains their their seaw into the Indian Ocean. And even my my my colleague here, Senator Osi visited the Kipo uh water treatment as a committee and he saw firsthand that uh Siwa is draining into the Indian Ocean. So, Mr. Mr. Speaker, I think we arrest my committee who was going to is going to take up the issue, but we need a camukuni with the nema and the minister, the CS in charge of environment present in this house so that we can address all the issues that members have been raising over Nema.
Mr. Speaker, if you go to a river here, a river, all the uh are draining into the earth river.
>> Even Nairobi River, >> Nairobi River also although there are some plans which are ongoing to rehabilitate the Nairobi river. Again, pollution is high in in in a river and in Nairobi.
So, Mr. Speaker, this is a a a crisis, a national crisis because most of these most of the Neymar Neymar officials also who are working in our counties are part of the corruption cartels that feed into this problem.
They they are supposed to go and inspect. Nobody goes to inspect. They are supposed to make closure orders.
They don't make the closure orders. they are supposed to make reports to to the ministry. Nothing is done. Mr. Mr. Speaker, so we need we need this uh plenary with the Akamukun with the with the CS and Neymar so that we can make resolutions that will be undertaken by the the the Neymar and uh the the CS uh u environment. I can see the the majority leader is uh frowning about this. But if you go also to Kericho the same pollution happens your tea factories in Kericho the other day Senator Morango Senator Nu was complaining about uh the waste from uh uh avocado factories in Muranga >> and Kibbo sugar >> and Kibos sugar. uh being drained into riverando and uh into the the mazur in Moranga. So Mr. Speaker, this is a crisis. We need to do something about it. Thank you.
>> Mr. Mr. Speaker, if I had your instructions to the chairperson, he was to propose a way forward to the house.
But he has rewritten the book of lamentations, Mr. Speaker, and added a new chapter. Just pouring the misery which we are already aware of. What we expecting to hear from the chair, Mr. Speaker, is what is a proposed way forward so that as a house we can assist him.
He has he has put across a proposal majority senators. You know all of us cannot be chairs at the at the same time.
So I want to the to inform the majority leader from my seat.
>> He gave an undertaking to have the CS and Nema team appear before the Senate in a way >> so that all of us can be able to engage Nema. the CS was here last week and she was not able to explain a lot on my issues. So I think that is but then maybe commitment on when when after long senator next week subject.
>> Thank you Mr. Speaker. Thanks for that uh direction on the need to have um a session with uh Nema and the ministry to discuss these issues. But Mr. Speaker, can I request that because when we call those people here, they will come here with with data that they have generated from boardrooms or from wherever they have generated it from. The speaker, can I suggest that because Tana River and other river and those other areas Nairobi River, they are not very far.
the the committee can commit this is a national crisis. The committee can commit even tomorrow to visit these sites so that even as we call this the Nema and the CS we also have our own inhouse generated information on what is happening. So just don't rely on them to come and tell us what they are doing and what they they have not done. Mr. Speaker, as I conclude, let us take this matter a lot more seriously than the way we have treated our statements. This country is is is being poisoned and never is just watching. I think Mr. speaker.
>> Uh >> I I want to give two members, one from this and another this on my left to make their comments on statements and then we close at that point.
Yes, Senator Bonnie.
mic please. Yes, Mr. Speaker, the matter raised by the leader of the majority in response to the con the comments by the chairman requires that the speaker gives direction. Mr. Speaker, the meaning of the leader of the majority in the Senate is that he is the leader of government business in the Senate.
>> Senator, please you should not stand between the member and the >> means that he is the leader of government business in this house.
>> Mr. speaker, how the leader of the government business can challenge a legitimate proposal by the chairman on the failures of his own government and not lead the house in ensuring that the minister is brought here begs for the question performing the functions of the leader of government business in this house or he is on a personal agenda like financing World Cup trips to go and watch football in the US. Mr. Speaker, >> Senator Bonnor, you out of phone. Have your seat. Have your seat.
Senator Bony, you know, once the chair directs once the chair directs the house on the way forward, I think this majority is is is actually getting a lot of influence and duties to the chairs of committees.
And the chair of the committee is known a very progressive chair.
Actually the chair allowance and involvement. He has already performed more than the the former chair.
>> Just because of the cup issue you can clarify whether you are good. Thank you Mr. Speaker. I have to Mr. Speaker, I I thought I explained myself in very plain and simple English that I wanted to hear the way forward that the chairperson was proposing to the house. How senator Bony has interpreted that to delegation of responsibility. Mr. Speaker, uh leaves a lot of questions to the house. To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Speaker, I know Senator Bony is a lover of some colorless liquid which is not allowed into the house. Uh Mr. Speaker, but I wonder if today he has sneaked into the house while having consumed it because otherwise, Mr. Speaker, how else do you explain the confusion?
>> No, no, no. I think he's out of order now. No, no, no, no. Senator Mataya, take your two minutes to make comments on your statement. You know, we cannot spend the afternoon on points of >> Give me the mic. Thank you. Thank you.
>> A lot of business ahead of us. Honorable speaker, can I be hand in silence please? Honorable speaker, I want to support the statement of honorable senator of Ketwi though he has quified himself to Ketwi.
Honorable speaker, this is a national matter. You know pollution has become very very very disastrous in this country.
You know this matter honorable speaker needs a a special session for discussion. It's not something that we are just taking just lightly. We need a special seating for this matter honorable speaker because you have been all over the the country and this country is not heading towards the right direction. Honorable speaker, the soy member is not even uh doesn't even have the capacity even to doesn't have the capacity honorable speaker to tame.
We need to enhance the capacity of Nema.
Honorable speaker to honorable speaker this community Kenya the Kenyans are very disciplined very disciplined in terms of pollution. We are very disciplined as a country as a nation.
You know honorable speaker it is shocking that you find even some very distinguished members of societ even throwing litter littering all over even throwing some dirt in the in the rivers.
Honorable speaker, it's a matter that needs some serious uh conversation. It's not an issue honorable speaker that we can just bring a statement and decide that we have just solved those problems or maybe we parade them here. It's an issue speaker that requires a whole topic because this country is not heading towards the right direction. We have so many rivers honorable speaker that even the fish are dying because they cannot even exist in those environments. So it's an issue honorable speaker that I want to congratulate though he has qualified himself to it's a national issue honorable speaker that's a cut across all the counties in this country and I think senator faky who ends the department of environmental rents should remove with a lot of speed and make sure that we parade all those okay last but not the least on statements make your comments senator as we conclude that uh that business.
>> Yes, Mr. Speaker, I wanted to make a comment on the statement by the senator of Kisumu on subdivision and conversion of agricultural land to commercial. You know, Mr. Speaker, unless we understand the frustration that we have put the Kenyan farmers into by failing to support agriculture, this problem of subdivision will never die away because Mr. Speaker, if you are paying tea farmers in Kicho, in Kissi, in Yamira, in Bomet boners of 12,000 shillings, what do you expect? they'll convert their houses, their land into commercial so that they build commercial homes, apartments to to to get better income.
So if the government wants to address the problem of this issue of subdivision, go and uh support the income of farmers and I want to tell Senator Cheray if you want to do affordable housing, you should understand the person who needs affordable housing. If you want to do affordable housing in Kissi because you mentioned Kiss and Namira, go to the villages, find the people of that locality who are staying in grass touched houses, build homes for them, then you can tell us you're doing grass, you're doing affordable housing, but just going to cities.
Yes, but just going to Nairobi to do affordable housing so that people who have companies get money supply that will not help. So, professor gender your statement is good. It's commendable. But the solution is we must find a way of putting money into the pockets of our farmers. If we don't do that, they look for alternative means of uh getting income from their land because the constitution allows them to own their land and to do whatever they want on that land. Unless, Mr. Speaker, Madame Speaker, that is done will Uh honorable sas uh I have a communication from the chair about the visiting delegation of teachers and students from St. Lucia Erobo Junior School uh Kakamega uh county.
Honorable senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence of a visiting delegation of eight teachers and 44 students.
Honorable senators, please listen.
I'll begin again. Honorable senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence of a visiting delegation of eight teachers and 44 students from St. Lucia in Kakamega County who are seated in the public gallery. The delegation is visiting the Senate for an academic exposition. On behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I extend a warm welcome to the delegation and wish them a fruitful visit to the Senate. I thank you and would like to invite Honorable Bony Kalware to also welcome them.
>> Thank you, Madam Speaker. Madam Speaker, I want to thank you and before I invite the children to follow the proceedings, just to bring it to their attention, Madam Speaker, that uh the speaker this afternoon, the distinguished senator, Senator Katherine Muma is a daughter of the same village that you come from, but Because thanks to her excessive beauty, she managed to get married in the neighborhood.
>> Yes. Who are our good in-laws and neighbors? Yes, >> Madam Speaker, >> I think it is for the benefit of this house to know that Erobo Primary School where these children have come from is the same primary school that the late Teresa Shitaka went to not went to school. The husband of Shitaka went to that primary school and then married Shitaka from Emani. We buried Sta a few weeks ago at the advanced age of 99 years. But she has left a record young children as I spoke in that funeral. Your parents had that she was the first lawyer woman, the first woman in the greater western Kenya to seek to become a member of parliament. But she did not succeed because of that great asset. I want to encourage the girl child in Kakamega and in Shinyalu in particular where Mama came from to ensure that one of you will one day come to parliament not through affirmative action. No, you prove that you can beat men.
I thank you madam chair and allow me to promise them that after we finish I'll meet them at the back so that we can speak in kuya.
Thank you m speaker.
>> I think you're late for the point of order. You're he's already finished.
Um >> uh Senator Hzena, what is your intervention?
>> Thank you, Madame Speaker. You know, we really respect Senator the bull fighter Boni Halo, but Madame Chair is seeing that the the chair right at this moment is also a lady from MMB nation who is here through affirmative action. Is Senator Bony Aali undermining the the women who get to parliament through affirmative action? Thank you, Madam Speaker.
>> Senator Kalware, in one minute, please confirm that you have respect for members of the Senate or Parliament who are here through affirmative action.
>> Thank you.
>> Thank you, Madam Chair.
>> All senators, >> thank you, Madam Chair. Madame Chair, >> what do you mean?
>> I am the only member of parliament in this house >> who was part of the drafting of the constitution that created affirmative action.
Madam Speaker, it is because of the acknowledgment that women and youth are faced with challenges that we gave you that opportunity and I'm saying the people who have been nominated when you are there for one term vet so that others get you come and now compete which was the intention of that particular cross. Madam Speaker, I respect as a husband of several wives and a father of very many children, most of them girls. What would I have against them? Thank you, Madam Speaker. Don't quarrel.
>> Uh Senator, thank you for confirming that uh members who are nominated are equal and useful members of this house.
Uh Senator Gerard K, what is your issue?
Madam Speaker, order majority.
>> Madam Speaker, on a point of intervention and follow up, Madam Speaker, I want to confirm we are proud of all members who come to the house through affirmative action and they even doing more than even elected members. M uh Madame Speaker, let me make the following. Today at the gate I've received a memorandum uh on the urgent resolution of stalement regarding the assumption of uh UHC and global fund staff cuity payments wrong job grading and unemploy unimplemented return to work formula. Madam speaker, this uh together with the minority leader we did receive madam speaker and uh the prayers just in quick submission so that I can table is that the council of governor's leadership to account for delays in payroll uh data transfer county assumption frameworks and refusal of county governments to negotiate CBS. The second is the cabinet secretary of ministry of health to explain the implementation status of transition frameworks and to uh resolution of 14day strike notice grievance and safeguarding of well to work and the cabinet treasury national treasury to address structural shift funds senator senator let me guide you don't need to read it honorable senators >> this is a petition that uh uh senator gay together with minority leader received >> by the uh a group of people who brought it at the gate. I think all you need to do is table it and we will uh we will refer it to the relevant uh committee.
>> Thank you madam speaker. I remember the last communication is that when you are tableling something at least you must tell the house what it is so that >> no you already actually introduced it.
You already introduced what it was. You don't have to read it. Yeah.
>> Okay. Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, I request that I table this petition and request there was an earlier petition we table last time on similar issue. Can you >> No, no, no. You Senator General Gay, we are focusing on this particular petition. Please >> Madam Speaker, I beg to table and request for your indulgence through the health committee to fast track. I thank you.
Senator Majority Leader Madam Speaker concern on the process that has been followed on this petition and this has nothing to do with the substance in the petition but the procedure that you allowing. Uh constitutionally members of the public are allowed to petition this house which is perfectly in order but uh I am concerned Mr. speaker in the manner in which petitions are processed and brought to this house. these present petitioners that now are conveying their message through the minority leader and senator Cher Gay they came uh before parliament uh this afternoon at around 1:30 uh I think uh in a hired uh vehicle together with loudspeakers and the same blocked the entry and say that until they are listened to uh they were not going to move and uh members of this house had to find other ways with which to come uh to the house. I am now surprised, Mr. Speaker, that they actually know of a better way of presenting a petition to parliament other than what they highlighted. By receiving the petition, Mr. Speaker, we are doing what we are supposed to do.
But shouldn't it also, Mr. Speaker, by way of feedback? Sorry, apologies, Madam Speaker. Shouldn't we as a house then equally guide them that uh in presenting because there are many other citizens who exercise this democratic right in a different way. There's a Mr. I think Musundu or Musindi >> Musundui >> or Musundi who always petitions uh this house Mr. speaker he sends his petition and his matters are considered otherwise madame speaker we'll find ourselves in a situation where citizens will imagine that that is the best way to get your matters first track in parliament that you come block the entrance and by that afternoon that matter will be presented before the floor of house I am afraid that it is not a good precedence uh madam speaker and this is something that needs to be checked and guided accordingly otherwise we are setting and not very good president and uh madame speaker that is just my concern on the process not on the petition itself. I thank you.
>> Uh thank you. Thank you majority leader for uh uh your concern. Uh, honorable senators, allow me uh to guide that this petition be submitted to the secretariat to process and before it goes onwards to the relevant uh uh uh committee. I'd like to I believe my recollection of the provisions of the constitution are that the petition can be brought as it is brought. The petition can also be brought physically uh through a procession and I think there is nothing wrong with that. What we need to guide the public is that that procession is must be peaceful and should not be disruptive. So, so uh it is acceptable for a procession to come to parliament and bring the petition so long as they do it peacefully without disruption and I think uh it is our duty to receive that petition as a house. So I would guide to blend the processes as provided in the standing order the petition be received by the secretariat and processed accordingly. Thank you.
Uh, honorable senators, allow me to reorganize the order paper uh for the day so that we can move on to order number 16. Uh, Senator Wamba, what is your issue?
>> Madam Speaker, thank you for your answers. It's just on the same issue and I know you have given direction to it. I I think madam speaker the the direction that we need and the guidance that we need from the chair is that there is there is a single door through which all matters that are processed on the floor must follow that yes we we can do our our procession uh peaceful that's what it should be the leaders can receive docu documents petitioning us on any issue on the land.
But but that matter for it to be properly uh before the house, it must be processed through the office of the speaker and the office of the clerk of the senate. Otherwise what we love the speaker is that tomorrow I will also bring get a petition from people from Kitoui on the pollution of the river AI and Tana and I will come and read it here without it being processed through the proper channels. I think that that guidance is important to speak.
>> Uh thank you Senator Wua. You are just uh re reiterating what I have said and you will recall I stopped Senator Gerard from reading the the petition and asked that he just tables it. So allow that we proceed to the next uh uh uh order.
Senator for Nairobi Senator Cifuna.
You know, Madam Speaker, I'm an ardent uh defender of the rights under article 37 and the right to petition parliament.
Processions by their nature, processions by their nature are very disruptive. Uh, of course, we are allowed only certain restrictions under 37 that you be peaceable and unarmed.
But, uh, you can be noisy uh, honorable speaker when petitioning. So I feel like the directive that the speaker has given is a bit uh restrictive to uh people who would want to petition parliament because previously I know that our attention has been brought to the presence of petitioners outside our gate through vuellas which can be very disruptive and the speaker has sent us to receive those petitions. So madame speaker I fear that uh that direction that you've given might have gone a bit too far. processions by their nature they are disruptive to flow of traffic they are disruptive to ordinary life but that is what the constitution expects >> uh honorable senators I think the senator for Nairobi is right that the provision in the constitution talks about peaceful procession and unarmed so to the extent that they are peaceful and unarmed I think uh those processions uh should be accepted acceptable. Uh that is agreed.
Uh can we move on now to Senator uh Cathuri?
No, sorry. Order number 16.
Order number 16, the county government laws amendment bill. Senate bills number 52 of 2024.
Second reading.
Thank you, Madame Speaker, for the opportunity to move this bill.
And I beg to move that the county government's laws amendment bill, Senate bills number 52 of 2024 be the second time. Uh honorable speaker, this bill actually touches on the work and the responsibilities of the deputy governors who you very well know that uh madame speaker they live under a lot of a lot of pressure from the governors. So this bill is actually trying to see how madame speaker can you kindly allow my thoughts to flow properly by protecting me from senator who can move even to the back side.
Give me uh honorable senators, honorable senators, majority leader, please kindly senator for Kakamega and majority leader, can we let us accord some respect to the senator who's reading the bill.
Let us listen please.
So madam speaker I was say I meant that the this the county government to amendment bill this amendment to the act of parliament is to amend uh and allow the county government tax provide specific functions for the office of the deputy governor and also to amend the intergovernmental relations act and for connected purposes. I seen m Madam Speaker that deputy governors all the senators here are aware that currently with the statistics that I have because we engaged the deputy governors during the stakeholders forum 40 now 42 deputy governors are not seeing eye to eye with their governors and madam speaker you know these people these two leaders are always elected together they sit down and agree on how they will be able to master the votes so that they can get to the office. But once they get to the office, Madame Speaker, you know what happens?
What happens when they get to the office immediately?
Then governors chase our chair with the deputy governors. to remember even I think almost two deputy governors have been brought here on impeachments.
Yeah. So madam speaker this is a very important bill touching on devolution.
>> Uh Senator Senator Kuri did you actually move that the bill be read a second time?
>> Yes I did.
>> You did? Okay that's fine. Proceed.
>> I did you know Senator Gathering the Madame Speaker I did that but you know there was a lot of noise from my backyard. So, so, so I send I the bill to be done then the second time and the answer will bear me witness. So, madame speaker what I said is that what we this bill is proposing to do and all senators in this room in this house they know the problems that we have with the deputy governors and the governors.
Madam Speaker, number one, what I am proposing to do is to account the deputy governor's functions including the general administration of the county government and overseeing the implementation of county executive committee decisions.
Madam Speaker, I'm also proposing that they undertake the functions of a specified appointment appointed position in the county's executive committee as may be assigned by the governor and also represent the governors and the county government in various official capacities in the national and county levels on government. You know madam speaker at the moment there's no deputy governor who can represent the the governor in the council of governors. They have completely refused and therefore the the deputy governors are left like I don't want to say for girls because it is a very sensitive issue and I can see my colleague is here who is an defender of the girls. I don't not use the word for our girls but also nowadays they are flower boys madam speaker but I want to say deputy the governors I'm being induced I'm being deduced >> senator kuri we don't have flower boys we have page boys >> no I meant flower boys in another connotation boys >> no I don't I'm not referring to the weddings madam speaker >> they are they are men they are men and boys who have become come for our boys.
>> No, no, no, no. I know what I mean. I know what I mean.
>> Proceed, Senator.
>> So, I don't want to be very specific on a a particular >> Senator S. What is your point of order?
>> Okay. Thank you very much speaker for the opportunity. This is actually a point of clarification.
Senator of course for Meu um as he's a very seasoned legislator as he has told us we'll understand that this house is visible to the public and in fact we're not here to talk to each other or to ourselves but we're here to educate the general public across the country. So when he says that he knows what he means when he is saying flower boys and flower girls, I don't understand how that would then um uh educate the public on the bill that he is trying to move because he needs to make sure that all of us understand and move with him in one accord. So may he explain and clarify what he means by flower girls and flower boys in uh county government so that all of us including the public can be uh well informed. Thank you.
>> Thank you. Senator Katuri, please explain who the flower boys.
>> For the benefit of time, you know, I I really want to manage time nicely since they will not understand what I meant.
Madam Speaker, I >> senator, the chair or you want to withdraw that that bit?
>> Thank you.
>> So that we can make progress and I want members to speak on this important bill before before we go too far. So madam speaker I was saying I seen that we want also deputy governors to facilitate and maintain effective intergovernmental relations and I was explaining that there's no governor would allow a deputy governor to represent him or her in the national forums that they sit with the deputy presidents with the president even if they are incapacitated they have greened never to allow deputy governors to do anything outside the county. So this bill madam speaker uh and I want to quote one gentleman called professor Benu who said concentration of government powers in the hands of one individual is the very definition of dictatorship and absolute power is by its very nature capricious and despotic.
So madame speaker the concentration of power within within the the office of the governor because I was trying to to to to do an analysis what happens when we elect the president. When the president is elected, he is very magnanimous to give a lot of work to the deputy presidents.
And the reason why even these deputy governors are suffering is because most of the county governors are not assigning them budgets to run the offices. So that is why sometimes even these guys sometimes even they they buy teeth on themselves to run the office.
They do so many things even the cars sometimes they fail themselves. No madam speaker because they have no budget for the offices in the national treasury national treasury the national h the committee on budget and appropriations committee allocates money to both the office of the president and the office of the deputy president. Therefore, this bill will compel even the county assemblies to allow governors to to to to allocate money to land the deputy governor's offices. Madam speaker, I remember sometimes when we had issues in me, the deputy governor water was disconnected, electricity power was disconnected, he had no vehicle, he didn't survived miraculously. And therefore all these deputy governors have come together and they are seeking and requesting this house to to pass this bill so that they can be able to function properly. Some of these deputy governors are professionals but they their work they don't have anything to do. They are professionals. They can contribute a lot in the in the respective county governments but madame speaker they are not allowed to do anything. So madame speaker this bill has come the right time. Actually we were to handle this bill when we were in Busam but unfortunately that was the best forum to discuss about it but now you can see madam speaker this is the right time and so far the the fourth senate this one we are in has considered the removal from office of honorable William Dr. William O the deputy governor of S county and honorable Dr. Robert M the deputy governor of Ki County and in both impeachments uh reviewing the gap in the law due to a lack of clear functions and laws of deputy governors in many counties this has contributed to rising tensions between governors and their deputies which has actually destabilized the delivery of services in the county governments. So honorable speaker uh as I said we met uh we met all the deputy governors and their representatives and I want to thank also the the the committee that hand on this matter le by senator but madame speaker they indeed very good work and we process this bill without any any hes and madam speaker uh article 17 of the constitution of Kenya provides for the establishment of the county executive committees which comprises the governor, the deputy governor and the members appointed by the governor with the approval of the county assembly. In most county governments actually the the deputy governors even do not know when the cabinet sits is unfortunate. They don't get messages when the cabinet is sitting. It is that that band madame speaker and therefore once this bill is is is is enacted by the Senate and as sent to by the president it will do a lot of good to our to our devolution and madame speaker since the Senate is to protect is meant to protect devolution to protect the counties and the county governments this bill sits properly within its with within the mandate of the Senate. And madam if there is any other bill that really touches on our work senate is such a bill. So we really need the fourth senate to make sure that we enact a law that we develop our county governments function properly. I want to thank this house because from this year madam speaker this house also passed a law that is has now allowed the county assemblies to access their money directly from treasury to be autonomous.
And I want to thank them. They supported that bill which I brought to this house.
And now the county government, the county assemblies, the 47 county assemblies are now autonomous. They are able now to plan for their activities and programs. The way the senate and the national assembly does not does their meaning the learning of the national assembly and the senate does not depend on the executive. So many years ago when I was not a member maybe uh 20 years or so ago or 30 the national assembly the parliament used to queue at the office of the president so that they can get their money from the executive. So this is what actually we have been able to accord our county assemblies and now they are happy and also these other one for the deputy governors let us support these gentlemen we know they are suffering from where we come from and therefore madam speaker this is a very straightforward bill which I don't want to take a lot of time because I can see my colleagues are queuing and uh I want to move and ask senator chalay to second this this bill. Thank you.
>> Uh Senator Gerard Gay, before you second, uh allow me to make this communication.
Uh honorable senators, honorable senators, I would like to acknowledge the presence of a visiting delegation of five teachers and 108 students from Tenwek High School in Bomet County. who are seated in the public gallery. The delegation is visiting the Senate for an academic exposition and on behalf of the Senate and on my own behalf, I extend a warm welcome to the delegation and wish them a fruitful visit. I thank you. I would now quickly like to allow Senator Sigay to also welcome them for only two minutes.
Madame Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to welcome uh the students and teachers from Tenw High School, Tenw High School. Madam Speaker, is my school. That is a school where I horned my academic and political career and I want to celebrate them today. In fact, Tenwak High School, Madame Speaker, is one of the two C1 schools in the county and I'm proud of the school. In fact, last weekend, Madam Speaker, we were celebrating academic excellence as well as sports. This school madam speaker is a school that is representing the region in football. I'm very sure the leader of majority would be happy to hear that it is one that is representing the region in academics. As they are here, I'm very sure they have come in. They will go back having learned not only what goes on in this house but also appreciated the work that we do and they will pick up a number of uh characteristics that we always tell them that this is a house where we debate, we legislate and they will go back home with some good examples of how these are supposed to be done and how they are supposed to behave. As a matter of fact, Madam Speaker, among the greatest people who have come from this school is Hondan, one of my greatest teachers who by the way yesterday was appointed or rather nominated as one of the commissioners of the teacher service commission. I celebrate the school and I want to wish these great students and the teachers a wonderful stay and of course together with Madame Senator Joyce Cor who is here in the chamber, we will meet them behind to share more about what we do in the Senate. Welcome to the Senate.
Madam Speaker, >> Joyce Ker, >> I was just going to call Senator Commissioner >> Joyce Ker to also give one minute. Uh, welcome.
>> Yeah, thank you very much uh Madame Speaker for giving me all the this opportunity to welcome our students and the teachers from Tenw High. uh as just has been said by the honorable senator, this is what was the of the best performing school uh in the entire region and I want to say that I must congratulate them and I also want to appreciate the teachers for taking this opportunity to bring them here to learn on how the business of this house is being conducted and I want to say that uh this is also a school that has produced a number of leaders just as been said by the honorable senator. This is one of the schools where my father-in-law was a student there. My husband was also a student there. My firstborn son was also a student there.
So, it's a school that has made us proud of and I want to say that we wish them all the best and I welcome them to this house. This is where they belong. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Uh honorable senators, I see Senator Wyona frantically asking. I don't know what his connection is, but Senator Wyona, one minute, please.
>> Madam Speaker, I wanted to say that I also share a history with Tenweek. I think I should say something that I know honorable char does not realize that as he keeps saying how Matiangi is a bad man. Many of our patients actually go to Tenweek has hospital which is one of the best hospitals in Kenya and I want to tell the young men and the teachers up here that we are very proud that that hospital has actually been providing services to our people. Mr. Gerald G, could you please clap for me for being so intelligent?
Thank you madame chair.
>> Uh I wish to confirm that Tenweek is an excellent hospital. Uh Senator Cher, you may now second the uh >> uh Thank you, Madam Speaker, as I second this amendment bill to the county government's amendment law of 2024.
Madam Speaker, while I appreciate the nexus that Senator Onyonga is trying to create, but all the same uh Madam Speaker, let me extend a warm welcome to the teachers and students of Tenweek Boy High School. We are proud. I think it's one of the best uh schools in in the in the country. Of course, caps boys being the top where I went to school and I want to encourage them to keep the spirit coming because madame speaker caps boys we have produced two presidents the fifth president Dr. William Rut and the former president Moy and of course yours truly. So please work hard. We want to see you up there and we are proud that you are senator.
He doesn't say senator. Your senator who is your precedia madam speaker is also a proud almat of that school and one of the top lawyer top lawyer in the country and also senator commissioner Joyce Kur. I wish I would have joined you on Saturday to to to to to celebrate. Thank you.
>> I hope I hope his time is running.
>> Yes. Yes. Of course, it's running. Madam Speaker, I would have joined you on Saturday, but because of of course your senator knows why. Madam Speaker, let me begin by seconding.
I I've received so many phone calls from deputy governors especially my brother the distinguished senator of meu juring elder the deputy speaker seasoned legislator Katuri Murungi >> Kaduri and also one of the properties of m Kenya east madam speaker as put it and mount kenya east spokesperson as a put it that most of our deputy governors have been reduced to reading newspapers.
Madame speaker and uh you know nowadays there are some national newspapers like the one of standard group which gives us funny funny and interesting stories that do not add up. They like reading so they have been reduced to taking water reading newspapers waiting for lunch time to go but one thing their offices are running dry. They don't have official vehicles. They don't have fuel.
They don't have office location. They don't have anything. Madam speaker and you have to appreciate that most of the deputy governors are suffering from depression because if a governor notices that you are a threat to their political dominance in the county, they would want to vanquish you. Madam speaker, I remember the story of Dr. Robert M from Kissi where there was political witch hunt until he wased off of office and and therefore we must agree. I remember the the deputy governor of of of wasishu engineer barot was politically hounded out of the office through frustration lack of cars and many others. Madam speaker I remember the impeachment of engineer CPA William Odual. The impeachment came to this house of SIA.
He was politically hounded out by the governor James Oringo and the rest until he's now frustrated. He can access the house. The petition is on the house.
Madam Spe, and you, Madam Speaker, you sit in devolution committee.
>> What is the point of order?
Senator uh Eddie. Madame Speaker, I am rising under point of order number one on uh imputing improper motive. Madame Speaker, you know the impeachment process of deputy governors affect this house both in reputation and on duty.
>> Senator Senator Eddie, when you are raising a point of order, you go straight to the offending.
>> Yeah, that's what I'm going to the >> No, no, you you seem to be laying some background on something. Just go to the offending bit, please. Madame speaker, I don't know whether you are you you got the what the senator for Nandanda said that in the impeachment of Dr. M of Kissi, it was a political witch hunt and madam speaker when he says that and this house pronounce itself on the issue of Dr. M and impeach Dr. M doesn't it impute improper motive in the entire house madam speaker that went through that case and impeached Dr. Ma because then if you say it was a political witch and then it affects the house that made that same decision. Madam Speaker, >> that is true. Senator Cher Gay, you will explain how it the impeachment of uh Dr. M was a political witch hunt and provide evidence and if you don't have that evidence, please withdraw and proceed with your >> Madame Speaker, impeachment is a political process.
I expected the new deputy minority whip to be well versed when I seek I'm saying you know I am saying it is part of political process which is attributed >> senator attributed >> senator please substantiate that it was a witch hunt >> that is actually what we're saying everybody knows it is a political >> let me with the word it was a political process >> withdraw the words witch hunt >> I withdraw the word witch hunt and replace it with political process >> that is okay >> which is the impeachment which was which which when you go you will understand the dynamics madam speaker so madam speaker what I'm just saying is that most of these processes I even the CPA CPA um William Odual sorry of CIA and I know your committee it's lucky that you are member of the revolution I think you are the vice chairperson has even petitioned your committee on inaccessibility to his office after the impeachment failed the governor and His people have blocked access to CBA William who is the duly deputy governor of CIA even after the house rejected his impeachment similar to what happened madam speaker even on engineer parrot the deputy governor of h of of was inishu was subjected to political imaginations until he was forced out of office. Madam speaker, you remember even we have limbo in Kericho and I wish the majority leader was here the the engineer Fred Kirui and don't see eye to eye with the with the deputy with the governor. The the the deputy governor has never been allowed by the governor to access the office. The office has been blocked. There is no official vehicle. There is no fuel.
Madam speaker and it is very sad that we are subjecting deputy governors to such inhuman process. Madam speaker and it is sad even I've just seen Kicho County Madam Speaker this is the only county where they have closed their county referral hospital madam speaker today where many people have called me to complain because in this bill we are proposing the liars the link madam speaker in this amendment between the county government and so you can see kicho madam speaker and and I I I always wonder health is a devolve function why would you close a county referral hospital like what has happened in kicho and we hope by the close of business kicho county referral store must be open because it's serving people from ki namira and the entire of south rift madam so engineer fred crew cannot access his office madam speaker so what we are trying to do madam speaker is to ensure that we give opportunity to deputy governors madam speaker if you are lucky to have a boss like Dr. William R. I remember even the impeached deputy president, the president even allowed him a budget, allowed him to chair subcommittees of cabinet, allowed him to chair cabinet meetings. Madame Speaker, even we have seen, Madam Speaker, Professor Kurindik, >> if you get >> What is your point of order, Senator Mu?
>> Uh, thank you very much, Madame Speaker.
and mine will be very very quick.
Actually, I didn't want to disrupt the flow of thought that of Senator Charge Gay because that is what he does to all of us. So, I didn't want to serve him his own medicine. But when he says that the president allowed him some budget, that is why I would want him to substantiate because I thought the budget making process is a preserve of parliament. I thought it is our parliament that does all the budgets of all government agencies in the republic.
Madame speaker, I didn't say on the budget. I said I said allowed him to chair some committee of the cabinet some of Speaker of >> Yes. Senator >> I think Hansard can be produced so that we actually know what he exactly said because Senator Charge >> Senator Charge can you sit down so that >> Senator Jar actually said the president allowed him some budget that is exactly what I heard. So if he's disputing that that is not what he said hazard can be produced.
>> Senator Gerard uh let's not pull and push.
>> Yes. Yes. You know what you said and you know whether it's appropriate or not. So you can withdraw. Very simple.
>> Madam speaker, the budgetary making process generates from the executive and the finance and budget member is here.
Senator minority whip deputy. Yes.
Senator Eddie can inform me on the budget making process.
>> You wanted to inform me? No, you were actually sorry.
>> You wanted to remove yourself.
>> Sorry. Just uh uh uh proceed.
>> Okay. Okay. But what I'm saying if you get a good boss like President William Rut, even the impeached deputy president was allowed a latitude to office operations including sub count. He was able to chair cabinet meetings, subcommittees of the cabinet. He was allowed office operations to do as by the law. Yet under the constitution the deputy president is a principal assistant of the president. Even the current professor kit kindik has now latitude of the office operations. In fact he has been allowed to chair some committees of the cabinet. I know of governors who works very well with our deputy governors. Madam speaker what we are trying to do is put it in the law.
We are not being prescriptive but we want to assist deputy governors because when you meet most of them and later I would like to return to senator who was a CC in the previous and senator kungaang although he was impeached to listen to their their reasoning how our cabinet our cabinet >> uh what's your point of order senator >> and I Madam Speaker, I don't know why we keep on entertaining this noise maker, Madam Speaker, because every time instead of discussing substantive issues, he's always bringing drama in the Senate.
Madam Speaker, I'm in this Senate elected by the people of Kiamu. Senator is very clear. If you are impeached, you should not be elected. But I was elected and I'm here. Madam Speaker, >> I do not understand. He should come here and apologize and we should not allow Senator Cher to be using this Senate to come and use the regulatory terms and come and demean people. Yesterday we were called grasshoppers. Madam Speaker, in Rwanda they call people cockroaches and that's why people senator we should not allow to happen. Madam Speaker, >> order Senator Tanga, you can sit.
Senator Cher Gay, do you have any evidence that Senator Tanga was ever impeached?
>> Please confirm that you have evidence he was impeached. If you don't have that evidence, please withdraw.
>> Madame Speaker, I would have wished that there are no noise makers on the Senate.
Maybe it escaped your >> Senator Cherake, you'll be guided by the chair after which then you can raise whatever.
>> I'm doing I have all the facts. He was impeached. I can table tomorrow at the >> So you can >> Yes, I will I will.
>> So you you the tomorrow at tomorrow's session, Senator Gerard Gay will table evidence that he has of Senator Tanga being impeached.
>> Yes.
>> What about the noise maker part? Can he withdraw? There are no noise makers. Uh, Senator Tanga, please withdraw the reference to noise makers, please.
>> Senator Senator Meu, I can hear what you're saying. You are asking him to defy the chair, which is not right. Please just withdraw and let us proceed.
>> Madame Speaker, I withdrew the use of noise maker and instead say he makes a lot of noise.
>> No, just no. No. Senator Senator Tanga that is I have not accepted that >> please please just withdraw >> Madame Speaker it's only that I respect you but I don't respect Senator Cher I withdraw >> Senator Senator just withdraw >> yeah okay Senator Charard you realize you are spending most of the time not speaking to the bill actually uh you might want to help yourself on this >> but I'm seek The rules of debate are very clear and I'm allowed in the next few minutes to converse and give real life examples. We need to interrelate of what we are legislating on on what is happening on the ground madam speaker and therefore uh we I will I will restrict myself madam speaker as guided and thank you for that madam speaker. So we are looking at deputy governors who can work simultaneously and that is why I was saying it was in good faith madam speaker that we were arguing that I would want to listen to people who have become CCMs in county so that they can tell us what really goes on madam speaker because I know a number of governors have worked very well with their with their governors. Madam speaker, what is sad is that most of these deputy governors and governors normally work together in a county and they work together to win votes but when they go into running the government like what we saw in Kicho for example because I'm well versed madam speaker is now they do an aim like thing when they now start running the government the divorce becomes noisy messy and with a lot of casualties with the detriment of the performance in in the running of the affairs of a county government. Madam s and that is why we are saying we want to of course we are aware under article 179 that the the chief executive officer is the governor the deputy governor is the deputy chief executive officer. We have say the functions county executive member we are proposing that a DG can be given a position to be a CCM or county executive in charge of any department and participate. We are also aware that they can represent governors uh in various official capacities, national and county governments including even funerals and birthday parties but also also national and county official functions because I have seen most of the deputy governors madam speaker when you are in social functions they want to insist even in mourning somebody they want to say they represent the governor in giving in giving condolences madam speaker I don't know the relation but we are proposing that madam speaker that official and county functions. Madam Speaker, we are also proposing that we have intergovernmental relations as a member maintain effective. Madam Speaker, we are aware that there are many challenges, Madam Speaker, that face county governments especially in the issues of assets management, issues of transfer of liabilities and preparing an asset register, Madam Speaker, and therefore we are proposing through Senator Catur's bill that we look and ensure that they become of intergovernmental. Madam speaker, we are aware also that whenever a governor is failing to attend interconomic budget forum that is chaired by the deputy president, they are allowed to sit in the summit and we are proposing that they should be there by law. It doesn't mean that if the governor and deputy governor don't see eye to eye madam speaker they cannot be allowed to ensure that they appear. So we are proposing madam speaker that they can sit in the summit that is chaired by the president in the ibeck. Madam speaker, we are proposing that the deputy governor can appear before county assembly on accountability and transparency matters so that they can appear alongside CCM of finance especially on the audit reports. Madam speaker, as envisaged in article 229 of the constitution of Kenya where audit reports are normally generated and transmitted to the county assemblies and parliament. Madam speaker, we are also proposing that they become part of the budgetary implementation and monitoring especially in public participation. the finance bill that are generated by counties. Madam Speaker, so that we can ensure accountability in the running of the counties. Madam Speaker, we are also proposing like Musalia like a prime cabinet secretary office to create a Lson between the county executive and the county assembly. You are aware the prime cabinet secretary Malalia Mudavadi who is also the minister of foreign affairs has created an office that like a liarsson between the parliament and the executive and therefore we are proposing that the deputy governor can be given that role so that they ensure that the bills the motions or the issues that are being raised at the county assembly madam speaker can be done and can be equated to that. So we are proposing like a license office to create a link madam speaker and therefore in all in a nutshell madam speaker because I want my colleagues to contribute we are giving madam speaker I know most governors are doing this and we appreciate them I I if my observation because Dr. or Willie Willies Willie the deputy governor of of Kisumi is my good friend I've seen him fairly uh working very well with professor Nyango which is very impressive representing them in many functions both official and unofficial functions madam speaker we want counties to work together these functions madame speaker there are some governors who are doing it like and I've I've given example of President William Rut what we are seeing at national is we are mirroring with the counties the the the relationship that the president and the deputy president works. We want to see governors working with their deputy governors together. We don't want to see governors where they want to undermine their deputies. Madam speaker, with those very many remarks, I beg to second this bill and I call upon my colleagues to also contribute and we process for the benefit of the deputy governance of the republic of Kenya. I yield back the mic. Madam speaker, >> uh honorable senator Cherald G, it is not you who calls upon the others to contribute. You may sit down. Uh, honorable senators, I propose the question that the county government's laws amendment bill, Senate bills number 52 of 2024 be now read a second time, Senator Eddie.
Uh madam speaker I want to thank you for this opportunity. Uh Madame Speaker, this is a very important bill that uh I first of all must start from on state uh seconding uh because the author of this bill also as he said our DS is also a seasoned uh political leader in this country and uh madame speaker I've been impressed by how many bills he has been able to do in terms of responding to some of the needs in the counties.
Madam Speaker, you remember that uh from last year the DS worked on the bill that could be able to bring about sanity between the county government and the the county assemblies in terms of making sure that there's autonomy of uh the county assemblies in terms of uh running their own account and not depending on the CRF entirely in terms of dealing with their budgetary needs so that there can be some sanity in uh in terms of oversight by the MCS.
And I think this is also one of those uh areas that the DJ has really the DS has really spotted in terms of giving uh the deputy governors a very good uh direction in terms of getting proper proper assignments. Madame speaker our governors have become rogue and I don't think that uh where where one or two are doing well uh we can congratulate them.
I think that we have got a menace in the country where the governors are completely satining uh their deputies one in the form of financial uh you know allocations on on things they can be able to uh do. Madam Speaker, the the way the dignity of this office were crafted by the constitution was to the effect that if you strip off anybody their responsibility in the in the constitution then you you you strip off the dignity of the people in that particular office.
The intention of the constitution was that when you have got a deputy governor, they must be accorded the same executive uh you know status that the governor enjoys because these offices madame speaker are about dignifying the people themselves and madam speaker we know our our counties are created where for somebody even to be a deputy of a governor it is a a game of numbers in the sense that one person will bring perhaps their region or their clan or their ethnic groups and then bring them in the mortgage of politics where they agree in the respect of that particular community or region. If you end up mistreating that particular deputy governor, you actually mistreating the people who gave the the gave you their trust by voting for you. Madam Speaker, a case example is Migori County. Madam Speaker, in Migori County, the chemistry has always been that when you take somebody from the L side, uh, of course, you've got a very serious cosmopoly in Migori County without any disregard to any community in Migori County because Migori County is one of the counties in that is extremely cosmopolitan. We have got uh the Somali in that community, Madame Speaker, and we have always elected uh, you know, honorable members from that community. We have got the Lya community in that in that county in Migori and we have always elected also the members of that community. We have got the Kuran community. We have got the ki the abagusi community that are very industrious in that community madame speaker and it happens that sometimes and as since the inception of the county of the counties uh as a devolved system madam speaker it has always happened that the lu side always takes the kuran side as a as a deputy uh you know governor to be able to run together and madam speaker you can imagine if you start mistreating that particular deputy uh governor from Kura. You are not mistreating the deputy governor. You are mistreating the people of Kura. You are disrespecting the people of Kura who voted for you. You are you are removing the dignity of those people Madame Speaker and and and therefore Madam Speaker is extremely important that we should not even just stop at assigning these duties. Because when I read this bill, Madam Speaker, I liked the concept and the intention of this bill, but my worry is it it it merely solves the problem because when you look at the at at at uh you know section 32 that is being amended here, Madam Speaker, in my humble view uh and and and and DS perhaps we can work on this together to make these functions more explicit because in my humble be view madame speaker only uh point um point F you know I can call it uh section 32 subsection F and section subsection I that give a practical role to the deputy governor. Uh if you read at uh if you read subsection 34 32F, it says where appointed as county government executive member under section B make recommendation to the governor on matters relating to the specific appointed position in the county executive. This one is more explicit in terms of a role that can actually be executed. And then I says assist the governor in the implementation of the county budget including monitoring expenditure, ensuring fiscal responsibility and promoting financial accountability as directed by the governor and in line with relevant national and county regulations. You see, Madam Speaker, I can see how this one can be implemented and be made an ex exclusive role to the deputy governor. But Madame Speaker, if you look at the other proposed U roles here, I feel like they are still ambiguous, they are still ambiguous in the sense that uh and I hope that the author we can work on this. They are still ambiguous in the sense that they still leave the fate of responsibility and functions of the deputy governor to the goodwill of the governor.
Madame speaker, if the move of this motion will agree, we need to make these ones more explicit so that there's more dignity in terms of when the deputy governor takes a role to perform, it is not a role that is at the discretion of the governor cuz that's that is the that's the lacuna that is the lacuna and madam speaker we send so much monies to the counties in fact in almost four categories that we send monies to the counties and the budgetary making process and the allocation of resources process madame speaker is almost explicitly given to the to the governor he has got all the discretion to influence the budget making process to the extent that even the MCS are removed from this madam speaker uh madam speaker we send money to counties one through the equitable share two we send money through the uh additional revenue allocation the carab bills that we pass in this house. Madam Speaker, if you look at that car bills alone, Madame Speaker, you can find a lot of explicit ways to give the the deputy governor power. For instance, you look at K, Madame Speaker, you'll find that some of the innovative things that we we send additional revenue uh to the counties, you'll find things like Flocker.
Why is it that something like Flocker which is an independent project given to the county government in the pretext of uh donations that we get from outside the country in terms of grants given to the government to address a particular problem like FOCA madam speaker addresses a particular climate change intervention problem that is supposed to come from the grassroots why can't we say that if we send additional revenue allocation to counties the function for which we have sent that money must be checked on and performed by the deputy governor. That way, madam speaker, you'll be giving the deputy governor a particular portfolio to be able to first of all manage but most importantly execute the vision for implementation.
Madam Speaker, another way that we send monies to the counties is through the World Bank uh resources that target uh you know urban areas and cities you know uh for instance madam speaker today you know I saw in the order paper although it was pushed down that uh we were we wanted to discuss something around the uh thicker uh you know being conferred as city status the thicker term being conferred as city status. Madam Speaker, if you look at the urban areas and cities act and then you go specifically towards dealing with municipalities, dealing with the urban populations in the in the in the counties, Madame Speaker, dealing with markets in some of these municipalities, Madam Speaker, for instance, in Migori County, we have got four municipalities. We have got the Rango municipality, we have got Aendo municipality, we have got Migori municipality, and we've got Kaya municipalities. and these municipalities. Madam Speaker, the money that we send in the additional revenue criteria from the World Bank that is dealing with ensuring urban population in these municipalities, Madame Speaker, although we have got the boards of these municipalities and we have got uh the chairman of the board that runs these municipalities. Madam Speaker, there a sense of service delivery in those municipalities. Madam Speaker, if you are explicit enough to give those functions, whether it's supervision or otherwise implementation to the deputy governor, then you are giving the deputy governor an explicit role that then will also empower the deputy governors in terms of thinking about financial and budgeting tools that sidelines those deputy governors. Madam Speaker and Mr. Madame Speaker, we also have another opportunity that I think that perhaps the author of this bill, the our able deputy speaker and the you know esteemed Senator Fu who has been doing a lot of legislation in this house. Madam Speaker, another way that money goes to the CRF apart from these three that I've mentioned is through onsource revenue.
And if there is no place that is so blurred to even the Senate as the onsource revenue, Madame Speaker, our governors are collecting millions and millions of money through onsource revenue that if you look critically is not even automated. You will find for instance in my county madame speaker that my governor collects what is declared is about 686 million in terms of osource revenue that madam speaker but if you look at the potential of the county and even if you look at the data that comes from what you would see border people you'll find that the governor through his uh revenue officers put borda borders um to to give him money through some rope of some sort in the middle of of nowhere. You know, some revenue officers will will be somewhere with some rope. A bord person passes, they take money from that border person.
Another passes, they take money from that border person. Madame Madam Speaker, how do you become sure that those revenue officers are taking those entire monies to the CRF?
How are you sure that what is declared, Madam Speaker, from a rope that has been put somewhere in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of some bushes somewhere, how would you be sure that that money, Madam Speaker, goes to CRF? These are some of the places that if you were to put an executive as as a a serious executive as a deputy CEO of the county to be able to both check the implementation of the of the onsource revenue as well as be able to monitor, evaluate and even ensure that there's a contributing framework put on the onso's revenue infrastructure. Madam Speaker, and you give it to the deputy governor, I think then the deputy governor would have a very explicit role in contributing to the wellbeing of the of the economy. Madam Speaker, yesterday, Madam Speaker, Senator Mamba came with a with a statement here um on uh you know the problem of degradation of the rivers by harvesting of sand in Kitoui. In fact, I wish we got the chance of of commenting that statement yesterday, Madam Speaker. But even when you go to Kitoui and you look at the way sand is harvested, the revenue that comes from the sand madam speaker goes through an onsource revenue infrastructure which if is not well placed and well put like for instance what senator I mean governor senator governor kangata has done in uh Muranga where you find that he has tried as much as possible to automate a number of uh revenue uh infrastructure in that county. Madam Speaker, if you look at Kitoui which is not dissimilar to Migori where in Migori we also have a sand but the sand harvesting happens mostly from river Migori as well as from the lake in a place called Modi uh in Yatik. The sand harvesting and the money that is being gotten and received by the governor through his revenue officers.
Madam Speaker, is completely completely not automated and there's not even ways of thinking about how do you go and regenerate those river banks as well as u the lake shores where this sand is taken from. Madam Speaker, you there's no mechanism whatsoever of making sure that after those sand harvesting are done, then there is a way of going back to reputate those lands and there's a way of going back and plowing back those resources to the community to be able to help those communities. If you are to give the deputy governor a very specific role like as such, then Madame Speaker, I could see how then they become more meaningful. But if if we just go with this omnibus uh statements, Madame Speaker, for instance, if you look at um uh section 321A, it says that one of the roles that this bill is giving them is to deputize the governor in the execution of governor's functions, including the general administration of the county government and overseeing the impretation of the county execut county executive committee decisions. Madame Speaker, that still leaves the masses of governor as the one that will determine what that county deputy governor will do. Madame speaker, the next one says here that undertake the functions of a spec a specified appointed position in the county executive committee as may be assigned by the governor. Again, we are going back to leave the fate of the deputy governor in the hand of the uh governor.
You see another one here, Madam Speaker.
Represent the governor and the county government in various official capacities at the national and the county levels of government. Madam speaker, how will you implement this with the ego we have seen the governors having in this country, Madame Speaker, where all functions are about them in Migori County. Madam Speaker, my own governor even carries his own chair to those functions and and and and as a red carpet to those functions and we have seen a number of a number of governors doing this, you know. So I wonder where which governor will allow their county governors if there's no mutual understanding and mutual respect uh which is which is what we're trying to solve here. Madam Speaker, I don't see any governor allowing their their deputies to be the face of that county in national functions and to be the face of that county in county functions. Madam Speaker and therefore Madam Speaker, what I'm trying to say here without belaboring because I really support this bill is that for us to solve that lacuna of ambiguity of roles. Let us use this bill to bring about amendments about amendments and I hope that the author will listen to us and perhaps also allow us to draft some amendments. Madam Speaker, to make these functions of the deputy governor as explicit as we can because the functions of the governor are already so explicit. And I think that the opportunistic way to do that is look at the sources of revenue that are going to the county and align those sources of revenue with functions that that that that that they go with and then look at what functions can the deputy governor do that is best. Because if you do that then you'll give the the the county uh government some sanity where even in a situation whereby there's financial sidelining and starvation that uh my friend Senator Ch was complaining here about that in some county governments like SIA the the deputy governor is completely sidelined financially and not just sidelined also starved.
You find that sometimes even even just approval of vote for that deputy governor as simple things as a vote on vehicles, a vote on some some staff, a vote on some travel and subsistence whether domestic or international madam speaker is completely sidelined. The best way to keyword it is to make sure that the sources of of resources that are going to county the respective functions that are going to those those uh going with those resources are looked at more holistically and objectively and then assigned particular roles that goes with those resources and I've I've cited a number of them from the World Bank side from the regional revenue allocation maybe the hardest one to to malign madam speaker might be difficult is the equitable share because the equitable share sometimes madam speaker goes even to affect some of the overheads that do constitute the recurrent budget of the county of the county and in some counties madam speaker we also we've also seen some serious um projects that will constitute what we'll call flagship projects for inori county madam speaker we have seen five flagship flagship projects are going on that are affected in some way by the national revenue venue. Uh you know we have got the stadium that is going on there. We have got markets that are going on. We've got kypes. We have got the uh you know the airport that is being made in Migori County Madame Speaker as well as uh generally the headquarter the county headquarter.
Those ones might be difficult to take away from the governor. But the ones that do affect some other sources of revenue that we might not be able to trace like the onso revenue. Madam Speaker, I strongly feel that if we align those functions with the deputy governor, then perhaps they will have some more meaning that always brings dignity not only to them but also dignity to the people who actually fronted them or supported them to support the governor to take that seat.
Therefore, Madam Speaker, I don't want to uh speak too much because uh there are colleagues who also want to contribute to this bill. But I do support this bill uh but with some serious amendments to make these functions as explicit as possible. I thank you Madam Speaker.
>> Senator Mu.
>> Uh thank you very much Madam Speaker.
With your kind indulgence, if you allow, please allow me to also congratulate my brother, my age, Senator Eddie, on his appointment and new role as the deputy minority whip. You know, Madam Speaker, uh for the four years that you've been here, we have seen the clock go all round. I was here when Senator Suna wasounding Senator Senator for out of office and we all here. We were really happy about it.
Senator Langa and I were removed from office by Senator Bon Rollins. He's one that moved the motion here. Now he's with us in the trenches. We have seen everything here and we shall see everything. So I congratulate Senator Eddie and I tell you that enjoy when it lasts. Now you are deputy minority whip.
You are chairman committee on roots. You are vice chair committee on CPIC. Enjoy when it last. You you have been there and maybe you shall join us in the tension someday.
Um, Madame Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to weigh in my thoughts on this particular bill. I have spoken about this many times, but I feel like uh the way this bill has been ordered and that is why I would want to have a very serious conversation with Senator Eddie Ok because from his contribution, I think he has more problems the bill than he supposed the bill. In fact, he proposed more amendments than he supported what is contained in this bill. I feel like Madame Speaker, the move of this motion, the honorable senator for meu is trying to cure a headache by cutting off the neck is actually trying to cure a diarrhea by stitching the exit. I don't feel madam speaker like uh um like you know madam speaker there are two things we can't legislate I don't know what is amusing to the senator for narok madam speaker madam speaker you know there are two things we can't legislate we can't legislate relationships And we can't also legislate love, you know, those are issues that we can legislate.
Madam speaker, the ultimate resolution of this particular challenge because I think we have stated the problem. All of us have stated the problem that many deputy governors are suffering. I have said it many times. All of us have said it many time many times. But I don't think this piece of legislation is meant to actually cure that particular problem. In fact, I think we are digging a deeper hole than we are intending to cure. I think we are making it even worse. And I'll give you the illustration why. Let me say this.
It is in the making of the move of this motion that once we allocate a specific responsibility and role on the deputy governor, then we can at least give the deputy governor some leverage in terms of the administration of a county. But let me tell you this madam speaker. It is common knowledge that it is contained in the constitution of Kenya that the chairman of the intergovernmental budget and economic council IBEC is the deputy president.
In the days preceding to Mr. William R's administration Mr. Sir William Lut was the deputy president when he fell out with his boss president Kenata. Ibeck was being called and nobody was attending. Despite the fact that it is contained in the constitution, not in the statute in the constitution of Kenya that the chairman of Ibec is the deputy president. When he fell out with president huru kata, nobody was attending Ibec. He was calling Ibec and only governors from his own formation.
In fact, let me say it only governors from lift valley and a pocket of some governors from central Kenya who supported him then were attending Ibeck despite the fact that it is contained in the constitution. So therefore even if we give the deputy governor a specific role to play in terms of the administration of the county government I don't think we have cured the problem.
Madam Speaker, I've seen that one of the proposal is that the deputy governor will be a member of the county executive committee and in fact ridiculously there is something that has been contained here that the deputy governor will be given notice of when the county executive committee is sitting. Do you actually know that in the constitution of Kenya article 1792 the deputy governor is an automatic member of the county executive committee. The county executive committee has h county executive committee members appointed by the by the governor and number two the deputy governor and the governor himself. So there is nothing as it is now even without this piece of leg legislation there's nothing that stops the governor from inviting the deputy governor in county executive committee meetings but they are complaining that they have never been invited. So therefore when you say that you are compelling you you are saying that they should be invited what stops them from being invited now that is question number one. Question number two if the deputy governor have fallen out with the governor and we are saying the person who appoint this deputy governor to a substantive uh role in the county executive is the governor. So once they fall out, let me ask you madam speaker, who is the accounting officer in the departments of county governments? They are the chief officers. Who appoints chief officers? The governor. So what are we saying when we say that the deputy governor will be appointed into a substantive office and the accounting officer of that particular substantive office is a is a chief officer who has been appointed by the governor. Madam Speaker, do you actually know that uh in the years preceding 2022, it was actually an abomination for a permanent secretary, they called principal secretary for a principal secretary to even go and see deputy the deputy president then Mr. William Respite the fact that he he was the second in command in the republic. I have told you madam speaker there is no way of registrating relationships. There is no way of regenerating love. In fact, I think the most drastic way of sorting out this problem. It is my very very considered opinion that for us to cure this problem, let us abolish and scrap the position of the deputy governor.
That is the only way in my opinion we can cure this problem. In fact, why do we force people to have governors that they have not voted for? Because you see we always see that if a governor dies or if there is a vacancy in the office of a governor if our governor dies if he is is jail for more than 6 months if they become bankrupt if they be become insane then automatically the deputy governor h takes over. What makes people believe that this deputy governor was being viewed by the voters in the same in the same view as a governor of a county? In fact, the way Senator HD has said and you know, Madame Speaker, I'm a secretary general of a party and you know how many egos are are taken care of when we are trying to put people together. So I run against somebody, I defeat that person and I take that person person to be my running mate.
that person has already been rejected by the voters but because we need some convenience in terms of the clan in terms of the region then I'll pick this person to be my deputy even though he has been rejected by the voters I have taken him as my deputy once I die the person who was rejected comes comes comes up to become governor through the back door madam speaker so I feel and I strongly believe and that is why I oppose this particular piece of legislation that the only way to cure this particular problem is to abolish this position because once people fall out it does not matter whether you have given them any role in the constitution or not once they fall out I have given you examples even as the highest officers in the land I'm happy that senator Edd has actually said that when a deputy governor is mistreating a governor they actually mistreating the people of the region where that person came from I wonder whether whether where that wisdom was when they were impeaching deputy president Gadagua and William Rut wants to say that it is not the people of that region that he impeached. You know it is the same thinking uh for the deputy governor and for the deputy president. Madam speaker I have seen that uh the deputy governor wants to be given a role. I think it is 32.
Madam Speaker, if you read 32G is what I was speaking about. He attend county executive committee meetings as a member of the county executive committee pursuant to article 179 of the constitution and be entitled entitled to reasonable notice of county executive committee meetings. I am asking this question as it is now without this legislation. What stops a deputy governor from attending or getting notices of these meetings? He's a member of the executive committee anyway with with or without this legislation. The deputy governor is a member of the county executive anyway. So this number G is a is a is is I mean uh is not supposed to be here. Now if you read number H madam speaker at from time to time the deputy governor would appear to the county assembly to respond to questions regarding the implementation of the county development projects by the county executive committee you know the reason why the governor is invited the CEO of a county is a governor and every time even when people appear before either the committees of parliament in senate and even in the county assembly the accounting officers are the ones who are who are dealing with the with the finances of the of the county. Madam Speaker, so tell me what role would a deputy governor be doing in the audit of of a county? They have absolutely no role. They are not accounting officers. They are not they have not no role in terms of implementation. They have exactly nothing to do in terms of appearing for audit questions. Assuming and I know there are some members of this of this house who have sat in the public accounts committee. Assuming we have invited count a county to come and appear before parliament and a deputy governor appears. Do you think any committee of parliament would want to listen to a deputy governor? Why would we listen to him? He has no I mean he has no executive authority of the county. Why is he appearing? What is he appearing here to do? Um number I assist the governor in the implementation of the county budget. Madam Speaker, since we are trying to bring this legislation to h manage the relationship between the governor and the deputy governor, tell me if you have already fallen out, how will that person assist me in the implementation of the budget?
In fact, tell me how is he is is he meant to implement to to assist in implementation because you see the county is divided in departments. There is a department there, for example, there's a budget of the department for water. There is a a budget for the department for sports. There's a a budget for the department of roads. That department has a director. That department has a chief officer. That department has a CCM. Tell me where does the deputy governor come in in terms of implementation. Whether you like him or you don't like him. Whether you hate him or you don't hate him. Whether you are together, you have fallen out. How does the deputy governor come in? In fact, Madam Speaker, this this bill in my opinion is very shallow.
I do not see uh well let me not say that uh if you read number I it says including monitoring expenditure uh ensuring fiscal responsibility and promoting financial accountability as directed by the governor. So if you have fallen out with our governor at what point will you be directed by the governor? How would how would a deputy governor madam speaker promote financial accountability? When I say this be shallow this is what I am speaking about. How does a deputy governor monitor expenditure is not an accounting officer has no executive authority. How would that person monitor expenditure?
How would a deputy governor monitor expenditure? Madam Speaker, surely even if because you have been lobbed here by Senator Kuru to come and support this bill, we can't we can't just support endlessly and just support because I mean he has told us to support and there's nothing to it. He just wants to make deputy governors feel like there something that we have done as a house and we are creating more problem problems than we are trying to cure. uh Madame Speaker serve as an executive liars on office within the county assembly for the purposes with the county assembly for the purposes of facilitating and fostering positive relationship relations between the county assembly and the county executive committee and enhancing smooth implementation of the county government's project and agenda and policies. Madam Speaker, as it is today, this role I think is the role of the county secretary. This role that has been given as role number J. So will the deputy governor now double up as a county secretary? Will the county deputy governor now be appointed as a county secretary or will the county secretary undertake the same responsibility as the deputy governor? Madam speaker, there's one thing that we can't do. We can't come here in this house just for the purposes of making deputy governors feel happy and come and support a bill that is not supposed and is not meant to cure anything. There's no way you can give a responsibility that is already being held by somebody and uh you are not saying what will happen to this other person. You actually now creating two centers of power when you make him the last one between the county assembly and the and the county executive and you have the county secretary. So what becomes of the county secretary? This madam speaker is creating a crisis on top of a crisis and is making I do not even know Mr. Madam speaker.
Um number E is to engage with the public and various stakeholders on issues affecting respective county and put uh in place measures to address concerns promote transparency accountability and in the in the governance process. Madam Speaker, if I was to read word by word, slowly engage with the public today without this legislation, what stops the deputy governors from engaging the public?
Why do we need this legislation for the deputy governor to engage with the public?
I mean, I think that is exactly what they do every day. Even when they are falling out, they still engage with the public whether they are together or they not together. You know, let me tell you, Madam Speaker,
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