The Harsh Reality Of Malaysian F&B: Why Drive-Thru Nasi Lemak Failed - Betty Ting l Kejap Food

[00:00:00]It's a very terrible period during my entrepreneur journey because my money is burning and we have no cash left. I have one outlet there. I have the staff and I don't know how to continue. At the same time, I need to learn how to raise one through crowdfunding platform, you know.

[00:00:16]So, it was so struggle and so stressed.

[00:00:19]>> You started straight away into the FNBF industry, which is a very challenging industry to go into. Why did you dare to even make that decision? I mean studying architecture was very hard and then we gone through the consultancy job and all I feel like FnB how hard could it be compared to this construction so that's why I think without knowing everything we are daring to start >> like why do you think it wasn't profitable the first outlet that you started >> first I was very naive like I thought I open the door the customer [music] would just come and we actually spend a lot on the marketing in the wrong way on the first We we give out 1,000 free Nasilama bonkus, but it didn't work out. People feel like what's happening to you? Why you want to give me free nasa?

[00:01:04]>> What happened to all the drive-thru? And then >> last quarter of last year, we closed all our drive-thru because we have put in a lot of effort. It just doesn't shows >> burning all the money that you have still continue on. Don't do you feel like really struggling?

[00:01:18]>> I think like [music] founder need to know Hey, what's up guys? My name is Jean and this is my co-host Stephen and welcome back to another episode of the entrepreneurs journal. So before we start, uh we always bring you this amazing conversation, raw authentics founder story to you every single week.

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[00:02:05]So, we have one very serious question to tackle, which is you always think about getting your famous McDonald burger and you can just simply drive through a McDonald's drive-thru.

[00:02:13]>> Yeah. And you want to be very fast as well.

[00:02:15]>> Very fast. But you can't do the same for Malaysian food, right? If you want to get nasa, you have to park your car, walk down, go to the shop and get your delicious pack of nasa. So Betty Ting who's our guest today has uh asked the same question and she saw a gap in the market and she went for it and that's where she started Kajjab food which is uh I think it's one of the first FnB chain which focuses on drive-thru that people can bar get your delicious pack of nas and nang as well. So today we're going to talk to Betty and ask her some questions about her struggles. I think we start with how she started the business, the struggle, the challenges and eventually how she also need to pivot and accept that maybe certain ideas might look good on paper and when you tried it out you have to accept maybe it's not working and you have to pivot and that's the story of entrepreneur. So Betty, welcome to the show.

[00:03:01]>> Welcome to the show Betty.

[00:03:02]>> Hello Jin and Steven. [laughter] >> Welcome to the show. It's I know you have a very interesting story we just was talking about back there about how the whole journey. So I'm excited for you to share it to the audience. Uh but before we start before Kajjab food who was biting >> I was an architect uh working in architectural consultancy for five years then eventually uh venture into property developments and as a project planning uh people then after that I joined this startup competitions and then quafu was born.

[00:03:38]So five years in architecture, five years in project planning and then after entrepreneurship.

[00:03:43]>> Yep.

[00:03:44]>> But the amazing thing is you started straight away into the FnB industry which is a very challenging industry to go into especially you don't have any experience at all.

[00:03:52]>> Yeah, I did.

[00:03:52]>> Why why why did you dare to even make that decision? I guess uh because for me architecture was I mean studying architecture was very hard and then we gone through the uh uh consultancy job and all I feel like FnB how hard could it be [laughter] compared to this construction so I didn't know it was so many details to tackle so that's why I think without knowing everything we are daring to start >> I see but what makes you so daring to you to to really okay let's start a business and uh not thinking about you know go back to the employment route and does your family really support you that time >> I didn't really ask my family you know because I I quit my job it's because of my son my son's was diagnosed with autism when he was 2 years old but fortunately uh after I quit my job I bring him to therapy and all and then he enrolled into a more interactive uh nursery >> his condition got a lot better and then that's when I feel wow in my entire life I have never have time for myself doing nothing >> you know so when I scroll the Facebook I see the start of competitions I have this uh drive-thru idea for quite some time already I even talk to my friends and my colleagues about it so I just straight away register and I bring the idea to the competitions And then that competition the first round of challenge is to crowdfund 8,800 as the registration fee. You cannot you cannot pay by yourself and you need to crowdfund. So I think I get the idea from there.

[00:05:40]>> I see the crowdfund you mean?

[00:05:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:05:44]>> Then we also heard that is that when we talk about it you before you go to crowdfund you also actually ask from your friends and family before going to this crowdfund right? Uh I I go to this competition first have my page that refine and uploaded to the website and then I crowdfunded the 8,000s.

[00:06:06]Uh they give us a duration of one month time to do this. I thought it would be very hard but I have done it in uh I think one and a half days. I got the amount from my friends and families.

[00:06:20]So it gives me an idea. Oh, I have a lot of supportive friends and family around me, man.

[00:06:25]>> That's so nice. That's so nice.

[00:06:27]>> That that's why I go all out. I even crowdfunded more and then end out the crowd funds um I think end as five 50,000.

[00:06:38]So part of the startup fund is from there. So from there I then offer all these investor do you want to check in more? I really want to open a first outlet. So that is how I got my first outlet funding.

[00:06:53]>> I see. I see. I see. But how how do you feel like when you raise fund from your friends and family like somehow maybe do you feel like oh what if you lost the money and you unable to you know talk to your friends and have do you have this thinking back then or you just okay don't care I'll just go.

[00:07:10]>> No no no I don't because I I'm always a very optimistic person >> uh since young until now. I never really listen to all the credits and noises.

[00:07:24]>> The naysayers.

[00:07:25]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, I just think like if I go all out, I do my best. If really things happen, I just need to tell everyone that I try my best >> and it it didn't work out. But do you still get a lot of rejection or negative comments from especially families when you ask money from families or friends or sometimes they will just business very tough one you know you show you want to get into you know have you had business experience before blah blah blah blah blah and no so good >> no I mean maybe they they thought about it but they didn't say it to me >> so all my people who support me they will just support the people who not they will just keep quiet >> I see I see that's that's very Nice. And uh after that you raised your capital.

[00:08:10]You raised the capital from crowdfunding 50,000 and how much after that you raise and how you raised another uh another round of capital to start your your your first outlet.

[00:08:21]>> Uh what I do is after after the competitions I have this much of money if 50,000s after the registration fee properly 40 over. Yeah. So it's not enough for me to start my first outlet.

[00:08:35]But then I I host an event for appreciation event for all these supporter they come.

[00:08:43]>> Oh wow. Okay.

[00:08:44]>> I push them in the event to check in more.

[00:08:48]>> So then and now I got this 500,000 as my startup capital. I open the first outlets >> through the event >> through the event. Of course after the event I still follow out. I still do talk to them but that events is actually something where they really feel that I support you, you appreciate us and you really are going to put this into actions.

[00:09:10]>> Okay, this this this scenes right I I basically only saw in movie you know they will do a event and then they will say something and then we want to raise fund but now I not able to experience [laughter] like >> very smart very smart move like to engage with the with the investors and everything. It is a appreciation event because there probably there are people who supported 200 500 there is no no reward for them it's just thank you. So the event is basically we prepare all the food that we are going to sell in drive-thru for them to actually test it first.

[00:09:42]>> I see.

[00:09:43]>> Yeah. It's like a food testing session.

[00:09:45]So it feel like everything. So you know it's jelling together. I should do this.

[00:09:50]I just go ahead and do it.

[00:09:52]>> Very very very very smart. You know, and how much you managed to raise from that?

[00:09:56]>> 500K.

[00:09:56]>> 500K.

[00:09:57]>> Uh together with the earlier 40K.

[00:10:00]>> I see.

[00:10:01]>> Wow.

[00:10:01]>> And then you started your first outlet.

[00:10:04]>> How how do you spend the money then to how you allocate? Is it mostly going to the structure? Because I know the outlet that you started started from a container. I want to tell you about the sponsor of this podcast, My Innovation X. The most successful companies in the world all shed one thing. They obsess over speed of execution and refuse to get stuck in planning phases. And my innovation X helps the most innovative corporates do exactly that. [music] It's Malaysia's only AIdriven open innovation platform, connecting corporates with wedded Asian innovators through a structured governmentbacked process. You see, an average enterprise gets stuck in an endless testing phase for over 3 to 6 months, sometimes even longer. But with my innovation X, you can have a live challenge in front of over 8,000 vetted Asian innovators within 2 weeks. And it's not just about speed. Every engagement is built to end in real outcome. A pilot, a procurement, or even a formal partnership, not just an introduction that goes nowhere. So when your innovation programs runs on my innovation X and your competitors are still stuck waiting for an endless approval, that's an advantage that compounds over time. So find match pilot always on. So go to www.mmyinuationx.com to see [music] how they can help your business move past endless testing and drive real world impact. Now back to the conversation.

[00:11:21]>> The first was car wash structure >> or car wash structure.

[00:11:25]>> Uh that means there is a car wash in the petrol station but it's unoccupied.

[00:11:29]>> Oh >> so I have two model which is car wash structure or containers.

[00:11:35]>> I see. Oh, so you have the container come later on the idea come later on.

[00:11:39]Yeah.

[00:11:39]>> Then how do you allocate the the the capital the 5k to start the business?

[00:11:44]>> To be honest, I this is my first time starting our business. Even though I put in the paper how I allocate the money, right?

[00:11:52]>> Yeah.

[00:11:53]>> It seems I just go follow the flow. If I need to pay contractor, I pay contractor. If I don't pay for this and then after 3 months, >> I realized, oh my god, there's no money in the bank already.

[00:12:05]>> So I sit down with my found uh co-founder. what are we going to do?

[00:12:09][laughter] So um uh very fast I made a decision to go uh for a real crowdfunding which is very similar process like uh earlier one but it's really using your equity uh and publicly telling people this is what you're going to do how you're going to raise money this is the term sheet you how much equity I'm going to give out and >> yeah then I straight away go for that we managed to do that within two months that we raise the fund also but during that round is also majority are friends and family also.

[00:12:47]>> Oh wow.

[00:12:48]>> So because I I do not know how to raise fund through crowdfunding. I was I think it was the most uh it's a very terrible period during my entire entrepreneur journey because my money is burning >> and we have no cash left. I have one outlet there. I have the stuff and I don't know how to continue at the same time I need to learn how to raise fund through crowdfunding platform you know >> so there was a day I were flipping my the stranger name cut in the office >> calling one by one I don't know how I I don't know what's the method I can raise fund from uh strangers because I feel like all my friends and family who can supported me already supported me I see uh during the first round so it was so struggle and so stressed. But then after that, there's one friend that that's the major shareholder during that time. He cheat in I think half of the half of our target then it push further with all the retail investor.

[00:13:53]>> But that is all the name card that you [snorts] >> No, not really.

[00:13:56]>> But you did call one by one at that time.

[00:13:58]>> I did.

[00:13:59]>> Wow. [laughter] >> Wow. Wow.

[00:14:04]>> I was so stressed you know. How how was your pitch that time when you scroll your stranger's name card and then you give a call? I always do a WhatsApp message first because I think this era people if you call is like whether he's free or not I also don't know but at least you give some uh preview first for people then asking whether I can call you any time then you give me a time I can call you to explain further >> but your name I I believe they also know who you are already right that time >> some no some it's just like you know last time when I wor in previous company some suppliers that I just you know randomly >> I see Okay. Okay. Okay. So daring.

[00:14:41]>> It's a [laughter] weak connections. Weak connections.

[00:14:44]>> Yeah. I mean desperate time, desperate measure. You have to do everything to survive. [laughter] >> But I want to jump back a bit. But why do you think it wasn't uh profitable in the first business that you the first outlet that you started? Is it because of the cost is too high? There's not enough traffic uh running through.

[00:15:00]>> I would say the drive-thru method, right? Like what?

[00:15:02]>> Yeah.

[00:15:03]>> Yeah. Method is not working.

[00:15:05]>> Um first I was very naive. I thought I open the door the customer would just come and we actually spend a lot on the marketing in the wrong way. We go and print some tapa pots with the kaja food logo and we also on the first week we give out I think >> I think along the one week we give out 1,000 free nasi >> ponkus and we give flyers to people know and then try to attract them to come and redeem the free nasa but it didn't work out. People feel like what what's happening to you? Why you want to give me free nas if it scam or what?

[00:15:45]>> Yeah. And now we bring the nasi to people and just give it for free. Also people scared you know.

[00:15:52]>> Wow. [laughter] >> Poison the poison poison.

[00:15:58][laughter] It's a new brand nobody knows. And even though we already uh we we have done something in the social media Instagram but it doesn't means the people they they they see your social media before.

[00:16:14]Yeah. Yeah.

[00:16:14]>> So it just very naive.

[00:16:16]>> But do you record any content during the time when you give the food to the >> I think I didn't know how to do content marketing >> during the time she did this right. I think it will be much more.

[00:16:25]>> Yeah. That's why it's is all we I'm basically a newbie to the business.

[00:16:30]>> I see.

[00:16:32]>> What what was your thinking back then?

[00:16:33]Because like drive-thru, right? You are comparing with McDonald basically because I I I first saw Kajafu, right?

[00:16:39]It's actually at the I think it's Bretonas and Sunb >> is CE.

[00:16:45]>> It's our first outlet.

[00:16:46]>> Yeah. But I think I think I saw another outlet in >> Yeah. Yeah. That is a later one.

[00:16:50]>> Yeah. Yeah. Then there's this container.

[00:16:52]>> Yeah. Yeah. Next to the giant brand >> next to McDonald. Exactly. Exactly.

[00:16:57]McDonald. So, so during that time I was thinking how are you comp how how can you compete with McDonald during like >> because when I go to the petrol station I will I will definitely go for McDonald >> and not true >> kij food. So, so my thing is that how this kajafu going to sustain? I mean, it's fighting with uh you know McDonald brand.

[00:17:17]>> So back then, [laughter] >> but my intention is just to tap on the traffic of the McDonald's.

[00:17:26]>> So hopefully the patron of McDonald's see kajafu. One day they will come and try kafu because we are all we we are both drive-thru. So basically they are our target audience.

[00:17:39]>> I see.

[00:17:39]>> Yeah. Yeah. But then yala eat it worse out is the worst drive-thru we have and the worst sales.

[00:17:46]>> You mean that that that [laughter] >> Okay. So So you didn't manage to capture any McDonald's customers.

[00:17:52]>> Um some yes but not uh a lot some commented was it was a storage for McDonald's. [laughter] >> Wow.

[00:18:02]>> Oh my god. Oh my god. And what make you still continue to to grow the business to raise another round and then to open more outlets? Is it because you still believe in it or there's some strategies you have in your mind that you want to execute?

[00:18:15]>> Our circle outlet in Sha Alam in Petron was a very successful um model. We use container and I think because there's also timing the time I cal foodie features us in social media on the I think two days before it opens and then we give out this rotty ice cream and that's the promo >> and then people pass by the petrol station watching us slowly build out the container. It also excite them.

[00:18:50]>> I see. So once we open wow it was a long queue.

[00:18:55]>> Oh wow.

[00:18:55]>> Long long queue. I was the casher. No because that time really not enough people. I was the casher was serving the all the customer was so tired exhausting.

[00:19:07]>> The second day I even cried you know I I I I got another influencers to come and feature us. And then when we prepare the food for them until one point I say it's okay.

[00:19:19]No need to feature us anymore. It's okay. I I said I I can't I I can't manage it cuz I need to take orders. My staff is busy preparing the food at the same time. I need to listen to you what to prepare, how to dress it up. I just can't. And then the inverse told me it's okay. I come back another day.

[00:19:38]>> Wow.

[00:19:38]>> And then I was weeping.

[00:19:40]>> Wow.

[00:19:41]>> So tired. But but are you crying because you are happy or you are scared?

[00:19:46]>> Sounds scared.

[00:19:47]>> Exhausting.

[00:19:48]>> Exhausted.

[00:19:49]>> Yeah.

[00:19:50]>> And how you manage to get are you happy at the same time because you saw like so >> No. Oh, really?

[00:19:54]>> I just I'm just nervous because >> we I think we disappoint a lot of customer because of the waiting time also. We didn't manage to uh serve it fast. It's just like the first drive-thru we we prep everything ready.

[00:20:10]We want to serve it fast but there's no customer.

[00:20:13]>> I see.

[00:20:13]>> So we change our business model to prepare upon uh order. So during the second outlet is supposed need to be prepared already and then just surf it.

[00:20:24]But our model change our entire floor is is meant to do to be like that. So we disappoint a lot of customer. Then a lot of people say need to wait for long.

[00:20:35]You're not ka food you're llama food.

[00:20:38][laughter] Oh my god.

[00:20:42]>> Oh yeah. So this is the things that we're trying to solve during the uh first 3 years time. How to serve fast upon order.

[00:20:52]>> So so during this period of time right like like Macdonald has his own system in terms of like how they operate in the kitchen.

[00:20:59]>> Actually is a very basic logic only.

[00:21:02]McDonald also prep their food our friend. Correct. It's just assemble and every station they have a a dedicated person to assemble a dedicated uh dishes.

[00:21:12]>> So once the ingredients reach the uh they have a expiry time reach it you just discard everything.

[00:21:22]>> Okay.

[00:21:22]>> I was there to observe how they serve the food.

[00:21:26]>> I see. So to a small business like us, we we just cannot afford do do all this, you know, this kind of all the ingredients. But to them, maybe it's just a small uh portion compared to their sales. So the margin still justified >> but to us it's not we don't have that kind of traffic.

[00:21:49]>> But what about serving serving fast as well? Like how do you tackle that situation? Because like McDonald's system, they already know like they prep everything already [laughter] P. Okay.

[00:22:00]Then that's their model because they need fast as well.

[00:22:03]>> Yeah.

[00:22:03]>> And and do you see a problem in your operation the time in terms of the kitchen?

[00:22:07]>> Yes, definitely. Definitely. But I would I don't have time to react >> because people keep coming in >> and that's why I want to ask you how do you manage to get out of that loop where you're busy is preparing but you still need to figure out the system how >> when the business go downs.

[00:22:23]>> Oh okay. only you have time to reload on all this because we really don't have it's just me and another partners and all the stuff [snorts] you know they also just wow just doing it restlessly >> right so you man meaning that you didn't manage to set up a good system and continue on with opening more and more branches but you basically was too busy to set up and then in the end customer was tired and then the businesses ded away is that >> I I think that's the reason.

[00:22:55]>> I see. And you were exhausted as well.

[00:22:57]>> Yeah.

[00:22:58]>> But how many outlet you managed to open >> drive-thru? Uh we have four outlets in Toro and then after that we actually uh open up curios in petrol station because to find the drive-thru locations in petrol station is is not easy as well especially when you still have criteria.

[00:23:17]Oh, you need to have a good traffic stations. All this when you filter actually there's not much. So the four location we have actually is quite good.

[00:23:27]The location there are traffic >> when you say the petron the traffic is just tremendous.

[00:23:34]>> Yeah that because that one is a road to like >> uh way. So there's a lot of cars there always like stopping there and was I think from know pinang or it's like also will pass by there somehow. But I learned that uh there are many traffic passing by doesn't mean they will come to your shop.

[00:23:54]>> True. They unable to convert into your customer.

[00:23:56]>> Yeah. Yeah. So [gasps] yeah, it's just so many thing to tackle your products and your flaw your operational floor at the same time. When you want to solve this when there are equipment need to invest also is very expensive when you want to venture into fast food. Right.

[00:24:15]Actually the equipment is very important.

[00:24:17]>> Yeah. and every equipment it could cost 100,000 if you really want to venture into this proper fast food business >> because you need a production line basically right every single station is very fast >> then talking about uh product I mean in terms of kitchen right so so how how do you decide what food to actually put to to serve your customer like what R&D process and also why do you sell like your rotty ice cream and then all the local food >> initially we just uh we look at what is commonly accepted in the mass market for example nasi l and initially we also have nasi kuni a young korean all this like every day is different have a theme but then after that uh we change it to more like a fast food matter it's just assembly of fried chicken >> and uh and then we evolved to wraps because a lot of people commenting you're running a drive-thru but you ask us to eat nasi in the car.

[00:25:19]>> Correct. Correct.

[00:25:19]>> It doesn't make sense. So >> too much of this comment made me uh put into action. Okay, I going to focus on reps and um also because that time we have a investor who is uh pioneering in reps.

[00:25:33]>> I see ah it happened at the same time.

[00:25:36]So we venture into reps. We put the local flavor into wraps and then market it as our main products instead of burger. Ours is wrapped with local flavor and then we turn the leor into leo fries.

[00:25:51]>> Nobody has done that, you know. Then we talk to a spider about how we going to do this and it's actually quite uh interesting. A lot of people find it quite interesting. But >> after a while we we realized uh anywhere red is not a common food for Malaysians.

[00:26:09]>> So the recurring customer is not that much. So it affect our sales also especially uh working sales.

[00:26:17]>> Um so working sales reduce uh decline then we try to push out the delivery sales to cover but then after that we realize delivery sales doesn't bring us margin it's very tiny margin before even we deduct the labor cost and all you know >> before the platform. Wow. [laughter] >> Wow. Uh because during the time when I go McDonald because why I will drive through that is because it's convenient.

[00:26:42]I want to eat in a car on the spot.

[00:26:44]>> Yes.

[00:26:44]>> I I don't want like then I was cannot drive then you eat cinema. It's al true.

[00:26:50]>> So so a burger form is very >> uh convenient for me like I can eat and then I can drive even even though I I eat the fries as well. I can just like >> Yeah. Yeah. True. So, so like that's why I was thinking, oh, how I don't want to tap out through drive-thru to go back to office to to eat. I just want to eat on spot in the car then settle.

[00:27:11]>> But why not? I mean, instead of parking your car, walk down to the store, you can just drive through, get in the cinema, go back to office and eat there.

[00:27:17]That's >> actually there are a lot of people actually they tap eating at home and office. Actually, that is not a concern, but true. There are people who want to eat while driving but we can't encourage that.

[00:27:31]>> Of course, of course.

[00:27:31]>> Yeah, we can't encourage that. But then I mean our solution is the reps.

[00:27:36]>> I see. So my question to you is you said you receive a lot of this feedback from customer about the car and al how do you filter >> is from investor.

[00:27:44]>> Investor from the friends and investor not from customer.

[00:27:48]>> Yeah. But then how do you filter all this uh all these comments and feedback?

[00:27:52]I'm sure you get a lot a lot of ideas and you can only implement so much right and you have to figure out what command works and what not. How how was your process?

[00:28:01]>> If I were to go back to that times, >> yeah, >> I think I won't focus on rap.

[00:28:06]>> Okay.

[00:28:06]>> I will still do the nasi >> because that is really h how you differentiate yourself than the other fast food.

[00:28:17]Well, I mean burger is very common because all this fast food chain from western country, it matchs its commons.

[00:28:24]But we ourselves as a small businesses want to promote a new products >> is it's really too hard.

[00:28:31]>> Not only that, I think a lot of even big brands, they try to reinvent the wheel from original to something different. In the end, people still go back to the original.

[00:28:40]>> Right. I think I think that's not just a small business issue but the perception >> you need a lot of um business to do it together to make it alone >> just like bubble milk tea >> you know when there are so many player coming in it just educate the the market that this this is normal you should try this you should you should drink it every day because it's everywhere >> yeah it's everywhere yeah >> so Betty talking uh about your investment again um then after that I Eventually Kawwan food came into the picture and they and I think they get about like massive like 32.5% of the sticks. So >> how do you feel back then? Why why will you take Kawwan food uh you know uh money and in exchange for your ordinary share and and when you take the money what what do you do about it? For me, I think uh [snorts] I'm okay to give out the equity for something I I mean someone who I think is worth giving and it will help our business because I'm really looking for resources to help me accelerate my business or even improve our current operation or products because I already have that experience when you have a lot of customer but you can't handle it.

[00:29:57]>> Okay. So especially when they are uh pioneer frozen food productions um in this market uh during that time my I want their solutions where how we can pre precook or pre-fry our food in central kitchens so we can minimize the step in outlets. So one less step or one second you save is >> giving giving back to the customer. So at the time I without any hesit hesitations and then the the offer uh equity and the money is actually decided by me. I was the one there's no negotiation not much negotiation. I just say I'm willing to give this in exchange with this but I I what I'm looking for is actually your resources.

[00:30:51]>> So very fast the deal done.

[00:30:54]>> I see. M >> seems like you're very good at raising people like trust your authenticity your character is that is that the is that the main reason that people believe in you you know your >> I guess so I guess so and I'm willing to give equity which a lot of which after that a lot of entrepreneur or businessmen say oh you shouldn't you oh you youard your control of the company I I guess I [sighs and gasps] I'm yet to reach a point to really um tackle this because all my mind is to met business words >> met these words.

[00:31:33]>> Yeah.

[00:31:35]>> When you get the money from Kawan Food after that uh is there any challenges that you face during that period and or does it actually smoothen your process? The operation actually I would say nobody can really help in terms of our operations even though uh they have resources and all but running operation is still us on the ground. So uh in terms of products wise yes so but then the after that the outlets that we open didn't do well didn't do well there are many factors uh I guess is because we didn't manage to build out a good reputations of serving food fast >> as reflected in our logo our name >> um even though we tried to get some influencer to market our our business the effect just doesn't turns out like what we have in the earlier second outlet that kind of uh effect so it was so slow everything is slow and we are still focusing on finding the right product improve improving the operation so it it doesn't turn well >> so how long does it uh last that money >> I think one one and a half year or one year time only >> because opening an outlet 500,000 gone.

[00:33:10]>> So a lot of the outlet wasn't really profitable at that point. Is it?

[00:33:13]>> Yeah. No.

[00:33:14]>> I see.

[00:33:15]>> Is it because of sales problem or too high like operation cost to run those kind of outlet?

[00:33:20]>> I think it's a sales problem.

[00:33:21]>> Sales problem.

[00:33:22]>> It's a product and sales problem.

[00:33:24]>> I see. I see. M >> m.

[00:33:26]>> So then fast forward you uh you also decided to go back to ECF again to raise another round like uh I think you have raised about 5.5 million right in a in a ECF platform.

[00:33:38]>> Um so and you manage [laughter] managed to raise like from I think about four 400 plus investors >> through through that platform.

[00:33:48]>> Yes.

[00:33:49]>> How do you do it? And >> so [laughter] I have the first round experience already. Um so I actually talked to the platform I say I can't do it like what I have done in the first two rounds because all the friends and family what I have is already there. So I need to approach a um stranger market which I need to market myself as a product and to raise the fund. So I I spot to them, can you connect me to someone that know how to do this? So they actually um intro me to a Taiwan product crowdfunding company. They also too youngster.

[00:34:33]>> They know how to raise fund for products.

[00:34:37]uh their record I think in Taiwan's it's just a products itself without any ambassador they managed to raise 2 millions uh through their you know social media marketings and all so they are the one helping me >> I see >> and then they set up my IP um they can tell story more interesting I think Taiwanese is very good in that >> storytelling >> storytelling and for example I tell story and they tell story is entirely different feeling. It's the same story.

[00:35:12]>> Uh so um they also have experience on how to do a how to say that what do you call that meta apps.

[00:35:23]>> Oh okay.

[00:35:24]>> I think majority of our investor is through meta ads. So really using meta ads.

[00:35:28]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:35:30]>> I'm curious of the story. Is it story more focusing on Kajjab food and the story of Kajjab food or story of how Betty and Kajjab food?

[00:35:40]>> I think majority is bettering.

[00:35:42]>> I see.

[00:35:42]>> Yeah. Uh but then Kajja food the idea is consider a lot of people like it. It's very interesting. So when this gel together people will be interested to know your story and they join the pitching session and that's where I need to close the deal. Do do you also think like this uh 477 investors is also part of your marketing asset like they will help you to promote oh I'm also the ketchup food investor you know although a bit although very little bit >> yes [laughter] yes yes even now when we expand to like certain office tower and the the GM will test me hey I'm your investor you know and then I see your product here no problem coming [laughter] so I I I guess that is the beauty of crowdfunding where >> a lot of VC and PE or uh individual investor they they won't understand >> they just feel like very troublesome you have to handle so many people >> there things have good and bad >> but how do you handle so many people though like so many investors >> I didn't handle you know I just I mean they won't call you daily or test you daily to ask how is your progress it's just that we will organize the annual general meetings for everyone through the zoom meeting. So, uh I will report my performance for the past year and what we going to do for for the coming years. I think that is just one thing they need. They just want to know your progress good and bad. You you need to say >> don't hide it. Be transparent. So, um that's all I do for the retail investor.

[00:37:24]They they are all good, you know. They very supportive.

[00:37:26]>> No one question you or like show you disappointment. How not this year not performing cash >> what you do matter you know >> very very little one or two and it's not as harsh as we can imagine >> I see I see so so instead of uh is a communication liability is exchanged to into a marketing asset for you instead of >> they are basically our ambassadors and our spy [laughter] >> yeah yeah they go to they will tell me you know this this stuff is not smiling.

[00:38:00]>> Can you talk?

[00:38:02]>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. I see. I see. I see. I see.

[00:38:05]>> We have a WhatsApp group with everyone often. But um I will time to time we will update the status. For example, we have a new alert or a new promo or something happens we will update. So that is how we keep them together.

[00:38:20]>> I see. I see.

[00:38:21]>> So at this point you raised the another round of fund which is a bigger bigger amount as well. How was the business beginning to pivot? What happened to all the the drive drive through and then how do you pivot to your new business model?

[00:38:36]Uh last quarter of uh the last year uh last quarter of last year we closed all our drive-thru because um we realized is we have done a lot of we have put in a lot of effort it just doesn't shows and there are so much more limitations if we want to do this and that because we are just a drive-thru. There's no dying and all. So we decided to just chop off so we can have more energy or focus on a new model to pivot. So basically uh this period when we have more time we focus on the two office building uh outlets see what we can do to bring out the revenues or how we can solve the problem of the office worker. So what we do is that um we already have a kitchen team which is quite strong. We can generate a lot of products. We even have a ancillary businesses like catering um resellers of the boonkus and also frozen food supply. We we do all that as well. So I was thinking if I have these resources what can I do the best out of my resources instead of try another new business you know and then need to put in more time and effort. So I bring all the uh ready cooked products boa boonkus pet food to our office towers in the early morning and then uh it works it just work you know then a lot of people come and they just want to gra and go and very fast and and it's very affordable as well two ringgit to seven ringit products so I find it oh our transaction increase it's like the trans this kind transaction never happened in the past five years. I see.

[00:40:29]>> So I like that transaction number. I like the questions even though the ticket value is lesser now but yeah yeah but we can find a way to tackle that later on. We can always do combo and all. Yeah.

[00:40:43]>> So now we are actually uh focusing on this model how we can bring just this early morning sales um and then duplicate to more office towers with lower caps uh models.

[00:40:59]>> So so so you still believe that you able to >> you know job then you can get your food.

[00:41:04]You always bring this uh value into your company and and also you want to bring it to especially for the working working people right. So you so from drive-thru unable to and then you pivot into directly inside the office tower. Yeah.

[00:41:19]>> And serve them maybe more faster. They just come down.

[00:41:22]>> Definitely more faster.

[00:41:25]>> Yeah. In seconds because what we do in KO city they just take what they want and then they selfch check out. That's it.

[00:41:32]>> We we do not need to you know uh prepare the food and all not even casually to collect the money.

[00:41:39]>> I see. And so usually like in the morning is it all habies really or >> uh >> during the normal working days? Yes. But during pasa no >> no during the holiday season no. So that is what we need to tackle the wastage.

[00:41:57]>> But what makes you different from like a cafeteria in some office places selling nasi lama or some quay putting there you know maybe one kakat will collect. What what makes you different from that? And not only that like my new or 71 in also in the office tower like how do you >> So are you competing with those business as well or >> for for cafe right those are the um site site business because they have their kitchen running but now we are doing we are focusing this as our main product that means our R&D will go into this there will be more and more products we even invented this uh we call it nasi to you you look at it it's like the tomb style inside we have a few variations like nasi kit I curry ayan nasi karabu ayam paka this kind of things so our focus will go into all the great angle food I think that is how we are different with all the other player for example convenience store and cafeteria because it's just different focus and branding >> I see I see >> okay so currently how how many products do you have right now in kaj food Uh you mean the grat and go?

[00:43:09]>> Yeah, >> grat and go is around for 16 to 20. There are four category boonkus uh boonku style. There are sandwiches as well.

[00:43:21]>> There are those uh ready pet food like qu and roti jala chong all that and also this nasi a new series. So we are continue we will be continuing to give more excitement to all the office workers. more more more innovate.

[00:43:40]>> Something new or haven't tried before then?

[00:43:42]>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:43:43]>> Uh before we move on to the next question, just jumping back a bit to like uh how was it? How was the feeling to pay to make such a hard pay from starting out you know from drive-thru all the way to the office because that's a huge pretty huge jump although it's still in FnB space.

[00:44:00]>> Yeah. But I believe uh as an entrepreneur we just need to adapt and change fast if the things doesn't work out. And to be honest this terminations of all the drive-thru it happens because our contract ends already the renewal of tenency is happening >> at around the same time because we are running five years already. So that's the time we need to make a decision whether to continue or not. But to be honest, my investor was worried about me more than me myself.

[00:44:36]>> Really >> worried about me. Can you are you okay?

[00:44:40]>> Your your mental health is it like >> I say I'm okay. I just want to make things work. It's fine for me. Yeah.

[00:44:46]>> Wow. Very supportive investors you have.

[00:44:48]Really? Really? I think that's very important. I think that's one really important. If you want to take money from investor, you also need to take it from the right investors. not just not just simply just take and then because you're obligated >> to them already, right? But if they are not supportive, they're not in the same direction with you. You know, I think that that will make the business even harder to uh to grow to survive.

[00:45:08]>> Then I think moving forward like um what makes you your decision like go with HWC coffee? I mean HWC coffee after that jumping in to uh do a dealing with you, collab with you, right, for kij food. So what makes this deal happen? Actually is it acquisition or is it a partner?

[00:45:29]>> It's uh it's considered a acquisition because they whole 51% of uh Kajjafood and because we have a mutual shareholders. So that is why it happens and also because I want I always want a teams we we where can solve my governance and compliance issues because I was dealing with daily operations and you know there are R&D products finance um there are so many things uh e invoice test all this I'm not familiar and so it's too time consuming and I always want someone that is already at organizations if there is it's good for us because we can just tap on their current system and then just get things sorted out and I always believe in corporate structures because I come from a corporate world >> and I think corporate structure will really make a business sustain >> it's not just because of me if I'm not here then how >> yeah yeah >> that's always the dream right without without Betty here the the brand still runs Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:40]>> Right. But did it really help like uh the partnership, the acquisition, did you manage to >> Yeah. integrate all the all the system and everything that you want and make the business better?

[00:46:50]>> Yeah. Yeah. Um uh when they come in uh of course we have a meetings on all the scope. How should we segregate the scope? What is under my care? And um definitely the products and the operations.

[00:47:06]The products the products mainly is under my care and then the rest of the administrative things it will be under them. For example, HR uh finance >> they also pull in people to help on our operations to set out the SP the hierarchy because last time it was always me directly communicate with the outlet staff. So when we have that hierarchy, it definitely free me out from the daily routine. So I can have uh I have space to think about how I going to expand and >> how to improve the business >> the directions and all. So it definitely helped us.

[00:47:47]>> So they provide you even with human resources as well. Oh okay. Okay. Not just the system like this is a system.

[00:47:53]>> The system need the people to set it out. So they also do that.

[00:47:57]>> Yeah. that that is going to be a great help cuz those are the biggest hassle of running a business like >> yes time consuming time consuming >> and and basically solve your whole 5 years you're doing [laughter] like having the drive-thru period like you also have to settle all this stuff right and it's your >> pain >> yeah and as I think that's a very smart move because as a founder as a person running the business you shouldn't focus your time in all this setting nittygritty stuff not you cannot focus on the main mission of the business.

[00:48:28]Yeah. A lot of Yeah.

[00:48:29]>> But all these resources, right, you can actually build yourself. But why why not build yourself?

[00:48:34]>> Takes time.

[00:48:34]>> It takes time.

[00:48:35]>> Okay. [laughter] >> Yeah. Takes time.

[00:48:38]>> And you're fighting with the the money that you have now, right?

[00:48:40]>> Yes. Basically, we are competing with the time we have left. You know, >> takes a lot of capital also to hire and all.

[00:48:46]>> Yeah. Yeah. When you hire a wrong person is basically burn money and time.

[00:48:50]>> Yeah.

[00:48:51]>> Do you ever regret coming into this business?

[00:48:55]>> I didn't know. Of course in hindsight you know but right right now going through everything that you have went through do you regret?

[00:49:02]>> No I think entro entrepreneur journey is is is fun even though it come with a price to pay. Um basically I think we are only living one life. So what can we do? What can we experience in this life is important rather than just money. So if will let me to start again I will do it again.

[00:49:29]>> I see same industry or you might try something different.

[00:49:34]>> You know I always ask myself if I can try something else what will it be? I haven't thought of something else that can be easier.

[00:49:44]>> I think everything is no it's it's hard.

[00:49:48][laughter] It's hard. I can't even have dinner with my family.

[00:49:51]>> Okay I understand. I I I was also from interior design. I definitely understand what you are saying. But >> but even right now can you really actually have the I mean like being an entrepreneur?

[00:50:03]>> I can basically uh you are the one controlling your time. It's just that maybe the working hours is longer but it's okay. I just when I want to have dinner I can pay out my time for dinner.

[00:50:16]>> There's flexibility there. Freedom freedom of choice over there.

[00:50:19]>> Yes.

[00:50:20]>> Right. Do you have any like like all the decision making that you that you that you made during your entrepreneur uh in Kajjab food? Do you have any like challenge or or maybe you felt like oh this is my this is my mistake like do you do you do you ever think that like oh why because happened like this is my fault and and you have to do something about it. Do you do you feel do you feel that way?

[00:50:52]>> No. Do you have that moment?

[00:50:53]>> Yeah. That you always doubt yourself whether you can do this although understand some co they are very optimistic but do you have that kind of moment where you really >> say she's very optimistic. I'm still very optimistic but yeah definitely there will be time like [snorts] why should I trap myself into this situations and [sighs and gasps] how I going to solve this and move on but is it's just for a very short while only I'm I recover very fast and then I will move on >> but what about your family like during because burning all the money that you have and have to you know have to face all your investors just um do you have >> they still continue on >> still continue on like do do you don't you don't do you feel like really struggle and anxiety depression >> because I know feeling anxiety doesn't help the situation so I don't do that then basically my family I don't really talk about this with my family so what I do is when I go home is just I switch my mood to because I have kids and you know um and I'm I think like founder need to know how to met themsel intact without uh crushing themsel down even when the company situation is really bad but you still need to have a good sleep because you need to wake up and fight again. There's no one can help you. So it's pointless to feel uh demotivated or feeling dful on yourself because it doesn't help.

[00:52:38]>> Yeah.

[00:52:39]>> And I I think all the investor want to see you still as a founder, you still continue to fight and you are a person that know how to move on. Even though you burn all the cash already, >> they still want to see you grow. It's okay. How can you move on? But don't you feel really stressed like because there's a huge amount of money that you have to bear and >> I think I have adjusted myself during this all this year because it really doesn't help on the situation then why should we do that >> and don't you feel lonely because >> definitely definitely so I have a lot of entrepreneur friends also and then hugging together or feel really [laughter] feeling so alone but but you realize actually everyone gone through the similar journey And whatever you face they are also facing. So >> it's normal for entrepreneur >> and failures is normal.

[00:53:40]>> Yeah.

[00:53:40]>> But that's what you're saying so hard so hard to do right to really you know ignore the noise adjust your adjust your mindset mentality back even though you're facing so much issue to get a good night's sleep. I think that's one issue I I face a lot of time where there's a lot of issue with the business or with life. I always cannot have a good night's sleep. sometimes for days or weeks even.

[00:54:02]>> How how do you do that? Do you have any secret sauce to uh brushing those things off >> other than just reminding or just like reminding keep reminding yourself or is there something that you do that can take your minds off things that you can have a good night sleep tomorrow fight again?

[00:54:17]>> I always joke with my friends entrepreneur friends. I said if you think you are really in a terrible um situations find someone even worse talking [laughter] to you. you will feel a lot better man because that's true when you when you compare to someone having a situations is much more 100 time worse than you but she he still can move on he still know how to carry on the business it's amazing you know I think uh after all after all this year I think um it's not important that whether you have skill on a technical you have technical skill or not it's really the mindset that mess feel difference.

[00:54:59]>> How you not you know not exhausting yourself into a in a situation that you couldn't help yourself. how you help yourself to get out and just forget about all the negative thing you just be positive on the goal you want to achieve and just find the resources you need money or find money you need people find people if you face challenge talk to people just that because that's the only thing we can do [snorts] >> and yeah we are our life >> I need to find more people worse than me [laughter] >> not worse >> as in they can still solve it even though they have bigger problem than you then why not you?

[00:55:42]>> Yeah.

[00:55:43]>> I always tell myself Ela Mus can build a rocket what what am I just a FnB business what is so worried about?

[00:55:50]>> Yeah it's true. It's true.

[00:55:51]>> When you how is your grow up uh you know your >> the upbringing.

[00:55:56]>> Yeah the upbringing in your family.

[00:55:58]>> I was a very I mean I was raised in a very normal family. None of my um parents is in business and also now I'm no none of my family um really venture into business like you need to raise fund and do capital there are small businesses yes but it's really uh by chance I step into this competition then my entire life changed >> does it change your personality as well >> yeah yes because I'm I'm totally okay working for my previous company. I'm happy, you know, >> and I even thought it will be my lifetime company. I will just work until I retire is is fine for me because I feel >> accomplished. I feel um stable.

[00:56:50]>> But because of my son, >> right? But but it's ironic though because of your son, you want more time to spend time. In the end when you started a business you actually you can't even have dinner with your family because >> no no I started a business I can have dinner with my family when I work for other I can't >> oh okay I thought initially when you started kaj food you were like so tired so tied up so exhausted >> there will be a sounds like that that is even like far more you know far worse than a job >> uh I always believe um you don't need to spend a lot of time with the kids but you need to show them how you being a parents live your life is a role model for them.

[00:57:30]>> So I always believe quality time is rather than quantities.

[00:57:36]>> And Betty um initially when you started the business right I I remember because we did interview this uh lady called J >> and uh and this uh [laughter] >> my t-shirt is drawn by J Mo.

[00:57:52]>> Shout out to J and Mono. Yeah. And uh what what and then I think you guys also uh host like a competition right like uh to to to bring in like character IP or something to for for your MA campaign is it >> uh >> uh during the time yeah it's a ma days and then we want to do something where actually we want to get attentions so what we do is we work with this u startup called artist is a platform that gather many graphic designer so we talk to Then I said we want to do a packaging competitions then you go and pass it for me and then J was one of the uh what do you call that contestant >> so we shortlisted >> we short list shortlisted 30 or 10 I can't remember but what we do is that >> uh initially we thought of if we are the judges is it feel like bias >> so we we come out with a rules the most like um contestant will get the first prize most like interaction on the social media. It's also because we want to get attentions. I see. I see.

[00:59:04]>> So the all these designer they might blast themsel and get more engagement for us >> also.

[00:59:11]>> That's our intentions.

[00:59:12]>> So it's not your own management team that decide who will win. It's really >> it's the light from the public.

[00:59:17]>> It's fair. It's fair and square. I mean, it depends because if you have more followers then you will get more likes.

[00:59:25]But for us, the entire competition is just to have more engagement so people know who is kaja food. Okay. So from there Jay didn't get the first place.

[00:59:34]>> Yeah. He told me he told us that it's like oh I I I didn't manage to get the kaf the >> and within our team we also have different preference. So it's very subjective one. So the first prize simply because they they got more engagement.

[00:59:48]>> Yeah. Okay. So after that uh my marketing guy he cannot forget about Mojito.

[00:59:58]>> Wow.

[00:59:58]>> Yeah. Yeah. He say this is very nice. I say okay just give it a try. Go talk to them and see what else can we do with this local artist we also want to support. And then after that it evolved until we licensed the one of the IP to become our mascot.

[01:00:16]>> I see. So that's the story behind J.

[01:00:18]Yeah. [laughter] >> Why you got the why you got the project?

[01:00:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it's it's very interesting and we are happy to see how they grow to until today. Uh they got very famous a lot of collaborations from the big brands.

[01:00:35]>> But how how important is it for you to to collaborate or for businesses to collaborate with this kind of artists or other brands? You know, >> I think uh it is also by coincidence because I see her passions into her own stuff and I think it's [snorts] good if we can support each other because they supported us. They they join into the competition um voluntarily actually we didn't give much things. Uh I I think is uh how to say [snorts] is supporting each other.

[01:01:12]Um, how important >> as a as a character brand to merge with Kajjab food?

[01:01:20]>> We are just trying out actually.

[01:01:22]>> I see. I see.

[01:01:22]>> We don't have much uh intentions. We we just want our packaging to look nice cute.

[01:01:29]>> So, so happen >> she has a bunny character that is uh rabbit.

[01:01:35]>> Rabbit. We say rabbit equal to fast.

[01:01:38]Good job. Okay. [laughter] >> So that's how it comes through.

[01:01:43]>> I see. I see. Just one last question. If you can go back in time with everything you know now, >> would you have done anything differently?

[01:01:51]>> I asked the questions to myself also. I I don't know. But uh I think maybe I could manage the drive-thru better.

[01:02:03]>> I see.

[01:02:04]>> With the things I know now. And marketing also.

[01:02:08]>> Marketing.

[01:02:09]how to market. But of course, a different era will have different uh marketing method that works better. For example, now content create creations, content marketing is not really famous during that earlier time, you know. So, >> so Betty, my last question to you will be what is your following three to five years plan for Kajjab food? Is there any goals that you would like to achieve and to tell your audience about Koja food what it will be in in upcoming years?

[01:02:43]>> At this moment uh we are pivoting to this breakfast market. So we call it super early by ka food. So during this time I will just focus on this and in my five years plan it will all be the breakfast market. But along the time we will need to adapt and tweak. I think that's unavoidable. So yeah.

[01:03:07]>> So be this brand called Super Early.

[01:03:09]>> Super early by Kojaf. Kafu will turns into products instead of drive-thru. It will become the gra and go products.

[01:03:16]Super early is just a channel to sell our products.

[01:03:20]>> I see.

[01:03:21]>> I see. Okay. I see. Okay. Okay. I like I just have one more question. What is the one advice you can give to all entrepreneurs uh who may be starting out their journey or already in their journey >> and also maybe during their journey they are like suffering >> suffering or trying to give up or you know burning a lot of capital running out of cash you know >> uh I think just solve the things step by step one one by one so be optimistic [laughter] really that's the one thing we need to keep us going.

[01:03:55]Be optimistic. Solve the problem. Keep going >> and be authentic >> and sleep enough.

[01:04:02]>> Slick enough.

[01:04:03]>> Beautiful skin.

[01:04:03]>> Yeah.

[01:04:04]>> Sleep enough. Yeah. SL enough is important.

[01:04:07]>> Okay. Awesome. Thank you so much for sharing all the insights and all the uh all all the all all the stories and all.

[01:04:13]I think I really learned something about how to run a business and how to pivot when the time is right or when you actually really need to pivot. I think that's so important.

[01:04:22]>> Yeah. and and thank you for being so as transparent as well. I don't think there's many founder is willing to share all this kind of through the struggles and everything that goes through.

[01:04:34]>> Yeah.

[01:04:35]>> Right. Thank you so much. Before we end, where can people find you and Kafood?

[01:04:39]>> Uh Kajafood now we have two outlets in office tower where in KL Eco City and Miller Square and hopefully soon you can find our product in almost all the office towers. M yeah >> awesome awesome awesome. So guys go and grab your nasi lama and all the grab and grow food from Kajjab food and uh before we end I just want to ask you guys to like and subscribe to the video and leave a comment down below that will help us grow. But in the meantime if you discover this journal don't keep to yourself. Me and Steven will see you guys back in the next episode. Peace.