Talking to your mind. Not a good idea!

[00:00:00]Welcome and good evening everybody. It's Dr. Mark Waller.

[00:00:04]And welcome to the Thursday night live stream. My reminder just went off and reminded me it's Thursday night at 6:15.

[00:00:12]And I'd like to welcome everybody to Mastering Thought. And Paul says he has to he has to work tonight. So Paul will will not be on. And what that means is uh can you see my cursor, Simon?

[00:00:26]>> I can't.

[00:00:27]>> You can't see my cursor moving around?

[00:00:29]Okay, so this is Simon.

[00:00:31]Uh Simon is one of our favorites to have on and we're going to talk a lot with Simon tonight, but there is a blank box below Simon. You see that where does it say guest two? Can you see it on your side?

[00:00:43]>> Just a blank box.

[00:00:45]>> Does it say guest two in the middle of it?

[00:00:47]>> It does not, no.

[00:00:48]>> Oh, okay. When I look at it, I see guest two. Anyway, so that blank box is for you. So if you will send me an email at [email protected], I will put your live image on that and you can be on our show tonight.

[00:01:04]And I I've got a couple announcements to make. Uh number one, um uh I am forming some small groups.

[00:01:11]And the link will be in the bottom of this video in the description.

[00:01:17]But it takes about 24 hours for these to process. So just click on any of the videos on the channel and you'll see uh the link for the small group sign up. Click that and it'll give you the information. We'd love to have you join us. We've got several uh people that are going to be joining us starting next week on Tuesday at 9:00 a.m. Tuesday at 9:00 a.m.

[00:01:41]And we're going to be forming other and it's limited to five, only five people, and it's going to fill up real quick.

[00:01:48]And then uh I'm going to be doing some exploring on some other times. Maybe maybe ask Simon what would be a good time for him.

[00:01:55]I'm guessing about 7:00 in the evening would be probably a good time.

[00:01:59]>> Maybe. Yeah.

[00:01:59]>> Yeah. And so we'll we'll take a look as we'll be we'll be forming a series of these groups and it will be to to take people through the process of mastering thought and um to learn it and uh share with others, you know, what the experience is like.

[00:02:15]So, if you're watching the live stream now and you want to come on live with us, I'll I'll leave my little blank box there for a while and and see if somebody wants to send me an email at uh [email protected] and I'll we'll plug your video right in there.

[00:02:30]The blank space below me is uh reserved for your comments. So, if you have a comment or question, uh please uh send it to us, fill it in and uh we'll bring it up here and we'll discuss it, we'll answer it. Yeah, we'll talk back and forth to one another.

[00:02:46]And um it seemed like there was something else. Oh, Monday morning, well, Monday at noon, Monday at noon, uh Rochelle Lane and I, and many of you know who Rochelle is, beautiful, very intelligent woman, very well versed in all this stuff. We talk about relationships. We talk about the lion-unicorn model of relationships.

[00:03:08]And um we have guests on there. So, if you'd like to come on Monday at noon and talk about relationship topics, uh please reach out to me and you know, we'll we'll have a little Zoom conference and I'll show you how it works and we'll have you on the Monday live stream.

[00:03:27]So, with that, uh I'm going to introduce Simon. Simon is so sort of a staple on the Thursday night live stream.

[00:03:34]And uh it's Simon is quite a story. I'm going to introduce him a little bit. Um Oh, here's on the path.

[00:03:43]On the path, nice.

[00:03:45]It's not on the path, it's on the par.

[00:03:48]>> On the par.

[00:03:49]>> that right?

[00:03:52]Anyway, it's great to have you on.

[00:03:53]Thanks so much for coming on. If you have a question or comment, chime in.

[00:03:57]So, I want I want to talk a little bit about Simon, not in a way that's going to embarrass him at all.

[00:04:03]Um but in 30 years of practice, and I was doing the calculation with my wife last night, and laying in bed trying to think, you know, how many sessions have I had in 30 years? And it turns out at um about 30 sessions a week, I have had, you know, 50 weeks a year for 30 years, turns out to be about, you know, and if I get a little conservative, shave something off, it's at least 35,000 sessions.

[00:04:34]That's what the numbers add up to.

[00:04:36]>> Wow.

[00:04:37]>> And so so This is where I'm coming from. I have spent 30 years talking about awakening, and moment mindfulness, and these concepts about 30,000 times or more.

[00:04:54]And so I've answered every question there is to answer. Doesn't mean I know it all. It's just that I've had to research it. I've had to look at it.

[00:05:01]I've had to think about it. In 30 years, 30,000 or more sessions, actually the math turns out to be more like 40,000.

[00:05:10]>> [clears throat] >> Simon represents the absolute quintessential analyzer that I've ever met in my life.

[00:05:21]And And when I say analyzer, I mean somebody who's in his head thinking, analyzing, you know, parsing the words and everything more than anybody I've ever seen. And the transformation that he has undergone as we've worked together on these um really fun and energetic live streams has been absolutely amazing.

[00:05:41]And we're going to talk uh uh to him about that. But again, if you want to be on the live stream, send me an email at [email protected] and by virtue of the internet, you'll get a a link to pop into that box and join us tonight. You can ask questions and talk live.

[00:05:58]And And anyway, Simon, why don't you tell us in your own words I mean, we've been doing this for what, 2 months now? Something like that?

[00:06:09]How you were when you started and what is the transformation that you've started to experience and more importantly, why is that happening?

[00:06:19]>> Oh, man. Let's sum this up. Even more analysis. [laughter] >> You were doing pretty good before we went live, so go ahead.

[00:06:28]>> Sure, [snorts] sure. I mean, before I was so attached to the narration and the constant chatter in my head, there was almost no space left for um the con- like I couldn't believe that I was not those voices. It was like a real fight I was having. It was very real to me.

[00:06:54]After speaking with you and giving space to what I'm going through and what I'm creating, like I've I've been able to let go more and more of the phenomenon or the psycholog- these concepts, I've been able to let those go and not have to like manage them so much.

[00:07:14]I think my biggest problem or like the biggest reason I analyze so much is to and like manage like self-image.

[00:07:23]I think that's my biggest thing. I'm trying to manage my self-image before and after I speak, before and after events happen.

[00:07:34]And man, like last week I was excited about thinking that I might have had a breakthrough, but even that I I it like this superficial like exercise. I was still having in my head I was playing another game, but it came off as like So I've learned to let that one go.

[00:07:51]So that's what's been happening. I've just been more and more of these concepts go without having to like justify them.

[00:07:59]>> Now Simon, I want you to pause at this point and show the audience what your sketches look like cuz I want to talk about those for a second.

[00:08:09]So he's going to move his He's going to maybe move his camera.

[00:08:14]>> So I have like I make these sketches and I have posted notes and I always add to things and every time I make a new sketch I think to myself like what is this?

[00:08:25]What does it represent?

[00:08:27]And I could just color it in. I could give it color, you know, just make it more >> Show us the one with the color.

[00:08:34]>> Well, I mean the color is like another layer of it. So I could I could always add color to it and make it better and it just gives me new layer after layer to consider.

[00:08:45]>> Now what What purpose did the sketches serve in relationship to the analysis you were doing in your head?

[00:08:56]>> Well, like I think it all began on telephone calls. You know, if I'm working or speaking to someone, I need to manage exactly what I want to say.

[00:09:05]And when I put pen to paper, I could almost keep my cadence. I could think ahead. I could manage what I'm listening to and what the person said. So I've had this I guess years and years of creating my own syntax, my own language of doodling. It makes sense to me. It looks like scribble to no one else, but just management. It's like psychological management of exactly what I want to say and how I feel about what I said.

[00:09:34]>> Okay, so what is the emotion that is attached to the sketching activity? What What's inside of you that's expressing itself?

[00:09:45]>> Probably control. Like >> Okay.

[00:09:49]>> Some kind of control.

[00:09:52]>> That makes perfect sense.

[00:09:55]That's perfect sense.

[00:09:57]>> and control. I just want to control my self-expression, my words, concepts, like how how the emotions flow. I'm trying to control the flow. That's ironic, isn't it? Just I'm letting it flow, but I'm trying to make sure it's in my like destination.

[00:10:12]I'm trying to like >> So, if you have any comments or questions, especially questions for Simon's process, uh put them in the comments and I'll have him address them. But But, you know, what what is occurring to me as I'm listening to you is a new thought about this.

[00:10:28]You know, I've treated a lot of people who had social anxiety disorder.

[00:10:33]Um this feels like a kind of a an inside-out version of social anxiety disorder.

[00:10:42]You're trying to control what other people think about you.

[00:10:46]>> Definitely. Definitely. Yeah, definitely.

[00:10:49]I'm listening. Go on.

[00:10:51]Yeah, social anxiety. You hit it right on the head. Uh-huh.

[00:10:54]>> Well, most most people with social anxiety disorder, they did I had As a matter of fact, I did a discovery call um with somebody the other uh the other day who had social anxiety and it was hard for him to talk because he was experiencing anxiety about whether I was judging him.

[00:11:12]>> Oh.

[00:11:12]>> And it tend It tends to shut people down, but in your case, it is definitely social anxiety, but it makes you build a structure.

[00:11:23]>> Yeah, I expand. When I listen to my favorite music, I vibrate like you wouldn't believe.

[00:11:30]Like I think other planets might be picking up on it. If there is anyone else living out there, I think they're picking up on how big I feel when it comes to listening to music and making sure that it makes sense to me. I can make like Yeah. So, I really um use it for like self-expression, I think, just to like expand myself and get out of my head.

[00:11:53]>> So, the you That's a That's pretty amazing. So, the sketches serve the purpose of getting out of your head, which obviously was not particularly successful.

[00:12:04]So.

[00:12:05]>> Yeah, and now now I'm like building a home. Now I build a house of like this artist that It's still ironic. It's paradox. One hell of a paradox.

[00:12:16]>> So, now let me ask you this question.

[00:12:19]What has changed and what caused the change over the last few weeks and how is that affected your relationship with the need to sketch everything out?

[00:12:32]>> Man, I think the biggest change, Mark, honestly, recently has been my gaze. I think I could just I sit in traffic. I'm waiting for a light to change, yeah. I would scan around you like you wouldn't believe, but now it's like, "Oh, I just let my gaze rest." I could just look ahead and I'm okay with that. It seems like I've I'm accepting more of like sovereignty and without having to justify my um like the space I'm taking.

[00:13:01]I can't not so afraid of the space I'm taking. Just let myself be.

[00:13:06]>> So, it it it it feels like a letting go.

[00:13:12]>> Last week I thought I had a major like letting go epiphany or something, but I realized I was using another um like um like a function a mental function and I got I think I had a glimpse of what it's like to let go, but now I was like fantasizing. It was just another like psychological thing about letting go. It wasn't a true letting go.

[00:13:37]>> But when you saw that, then what happened? When you realized you were doing that, what happened then?

[00:13:42]>> I was get I realized when I was getting more tired of creating more thoughts of letting go.

[00:13:47]You know, >> [laughter] >> You know, like there's this uh like a function in calculus where there's like an input and then there's the equation and then there's the output in this function.

[00:13:59]Every time like an intrusive thought would come in or something about my past, I would have to run a whole new equation before I could let it go. I was getting tired of the equation. I realized, "Oh my god, this is just another mind game I'm playing about letting go.

[00:14:13]I'm running it through a Yeah. It wasn't a pure letting go. It wasn't just drop the pen. It was "Here's what I'm going to do about dropping the pen." It was just this whole analysis over analysis.

[00:14:24]>> So, it's almost like your ego convinced you you were letting go and it was all a lie.

[00:14:32]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:14:33]>> So, now that you bring up a an interesting topic because I again, let me let me bring up Do I have uh I don't think I've got the moment mindfulness slide available to me, but moment mindfulness is very simple. You just you just pause and wait for a thought to develop in your mind and then you step back and notice that you're thinking. In other words, you're trying to catch yourself in the act of thinking.

[00:15:01]In the instant you notice the voice in your head, it goes away.

[00:15:06]Now, there are certain category of people, I call them analyzers, that have a real struggle with that because it requires you to let go and allow something to drift in and allow it to go away when you observe it.

[00:15:22]If you want to know whether you're an analyzer or a um uh I call them explorers, there in the in the in the description below after this um live stream settles, you will see a quiz you can take that will direct you to a quiz and you'll find out whether you're an analyzer or an explorer.

[00:15:45]And if you can't wait for the live stream to get the new description, that'll that'll take 24 48 hours, go to almost any one of the other videos on the channel and you'll see the the um analyzer quiz there. You can take it.

[00:16:02]You know, it's the same link. It takes you to the same place.

[00:16:06]Mhm. So, very interesting.

[00:16:09]Now, what was it um about our discussions or the live streams that you've been participating on that you think kind of broke through?

[00:16:21]>> The separation, I think, of the habitual uh unconscious harassing voices that come up to bait me and I thought the voice that was protecting myself, it's like designed to protect myself, I really believe in that voice.

[00:16:41]>> Mhm.

[00:16:42]>> That's the part I still have trouble with not believing that I'm the voice.

[00:16:46]It's like I don't know what my soul is, but it's wearing this hand like a glove, right?

[00:16:51]So, I'm controlling this hand and I'm wearing it like a glove.

[00:16:54]I'm also wearing my psychology like a glove and I can't like distinguish the difference between what it is that I'm made of and what it what my brain is. I got my hand in it. I really have like a confident hand to eye coordination. That's what all of this is all about. It's like hand to eye coordination and I know exactly where it comes from.

[00:17:16]>> Okay.

[00:17:16]>> And I feel almost proud of it. I know what I've done. I've hit home run after home run.

[00:17:22]And how do I not feel, you know, proud of it? I don't know. I can't seem to let that go. So, the more I'm pitched, I just want to swing at it.

[00:17:31]It's like a pitch and catch. It's a game of pitch and catch.

[00:17:34]>> So, we got some uh some new viewers on the live stream. If you want to uh ask a comment, ask a question, ask ask a comment, make a comment, or ask a question.

[00:17:45]Um put it in the comments. It'll pop up here. We'll put it on the screen.

[00:17:49]And uh there's still time in the live stream. If you'd like to appear live with us, uh I can create another box and put you in the box below Simon, and we can interact live with your video if you'd like to do that.

[00:18:04]I don't think there's anybody in the internet who would actually risk doing that, but I've worked with so many thousands of people for so many years. I I really kind of trust people, and and uh um I kind of know what to do when things get out of control. So, >> I'm so happy like I found your videos cuz it was like the suffering of believing my own voice or this fight that was happening was so real to me. I was like, "Man, I don't know. Mark seems to be like coming from a deeper place or he has some kind of angle that seems so simple.

[00:18:37]Like I just binge-watched all your videos, and I just stuck around for it.

[00:18:41]So, I'm still hoping for like more clarity. So, that's why I'm still here. So, someone else is suffering so badly that it's like they're willing to come on and risk the harassment or the humiliation. Whatever it may be, it's like >> [laughter] >> they just throw all of that into the wind and just come on and >> [laughter] >> You're You're not If you come on, you're not going to be harassed, for heaven's sake.

[00:19:06]>> No, I mean, the feeling of feeling like someone else is going to make fun of you because you're here like you know, getting help.

[00:19:15]So, it's all worth the risk just to encourage someone else to come on, Mark.

[00:19:18]I'm just >> So, welcome to Mastering Thought. We're we're talking to Simon. Simon is the quintessential over-thinker.

[00:19:26]And um but what I would what I would highly recommend you do at this point is to do the moment mindfulness exercise.

[00:19:35]It's not you know, now that you're kind of released from this um just do the exercise uh as simple as it is and watch it change you. You don't have to do anything.

[00:19:48]Doing the Doing the thought watching exercise changes your brain and releases you.

[00:19:55]So, on the part of saying, do you notice Simon any changes in how you feel as a result of some of the progress you've made? That's a great question.

[00:20:05]Oh, Shannon.

[00:20:07]I I didn't see Shannon. That's Shannon.

[00:20:09]Okay, great. Nice to see you again, Shannon.

[00:20:13]>> Um the biggest the best feeling I have after this stuff I think comes from the gaze I have like the way I look out. I I notice this in traffic a lot.

[00:20:25]I could just have this long gaze like like a point in front of me.

[00:20:32]>> Uh-huh.

[00:20:32]>> Um where I don't have to really analyze I hope I'm not getting cut off. I hope like It just feels good not to analyze so much and let things go as I gaze ahead instead of looking in myself and trying to prevent thoughts from coming up or trying to manage thoughts from coming up. I just let my gaze be outside.

[00:20:54]>> So, So, Simon, let me rephrase the question see if you can dial in a little better.

[00:21:02]What is your How does this has just this changed your view, your overall sense of being since this has started to happen for you.

[00:21:17]>> [sighs] >> Man, in so many ways I'm I don't know what I'm hoping for, but there's like more and more of hope for a better way of using psychology.

[00:21:36]>> But how is it better now though?

[00:21:39]How is How is your psychology better today than it was you know, 10 weeks ago before you started this journey?

[00:21:47]>> I think less threatened and I'm still looking to be more hopeful.

[00:21:52]I think less threatened.

[00:21:54]>> Do you feel more relaxed then?

[00:21:56]>> I think so, yeah. Like less combative inside.

[00:22:00]>> Okay.

[00:22:00]>> Before I was like sword in hand ready to you know, just give it to thoughts that would come up, but now I'm more just outward gazing and that's okay. I feel less >> [clears throat and cough] >> I don't um You know what we become so uh like acclimated to the new you. I'm I'm get I'm I realize that I'm more and more comfortable with myself now and I almost don't want to admit to myself what I was like when I met you. It's like no, I'm not that guy anymore. Please, can we just forget that guy? He was a nervous wreck. I don't know what he was.

[00:22:37]I just feel more like closer to who I should truly be. Like a closer sense of self.

[00:22:45]>> Oh.

[00:22:45]>> Shannon, ask some more questions of Simon because he's really dialing into what what's happening to him.

[00:22:53]Um but yeah, you feel more I think the most powerful thing you've said is you feel more comfortable with yourself.

[00:23:02]Now, those of you who are just joining us, ask a question and get in the conversation.

[00:23:06]We love to have you. Uh Simon is an overthinker and he's breaking through.

[00:23:12]He's He's breaking free of uh the rumination and the overthinking. It's amazing to watch.

[00:23:21]>> Um you know when some people look irritable for no particular reason?

[00:23:25]>> Mhm.

[00:23:26]>> You have no idea what's wrong with him or what's bothering him.

[00:23:29]And we just can't imagine what they're thinking or why they're thinking of their past. I think I have less and less of that guy.

[00:23:36]>> Uh-huh.

[00:23:37]>> I think I've detached from this like irritable guy with just like a chip on his shoulder, so just ready to explode. I think I'm able to control my reactions. And just try to respond more, so it's like, "Oh, I'm more sovereign than I thought I could be."

[00:23:52]>> Wow.

[00:23:52]>> And I think that's what the gaze is all about. You know what? A king, like a king, a sovereign king, masculine, heavy, sitting in his throne with his like wrists on his uh on the handrest, not really uh you know, flustered.

[00:24:06]I think I'm more assuming more and more of that kind of character and just uh not so jumpy.

[00:24:13]>> What an amazing mental image.

[00:24:16]>> Yeah.

[00:24:16]>> If you have a question, uh I really appreciate Shaman's question because that that was key. That dialed it in. If you have a question of Simon of about how he is overcoming rumination and overthinking, um this is man, this is big.

[00:24:35]You know?

[00:24:35]>> Other people must see something I don't see. You know what? Like I have a blind spot to my own self. I don't know how to look back at myself and make corrections. So I'm trying to do it internally.

[00:24:45]I know I'm trying to do it internally.

[00:24:47]Like, how do I come off? Let me manage that. Let me control that. And then it goes. It just It goes.

[00:24:55]>> Great.

[00:24:58]Let me just urge you those of you who are joining us tonight or watching the recording of the live stream.

[00:25:06]Oh, there's Paul. Paul just jumped in.

[00:25:10]He's at work. If you want to add me, I can take a break in the car for a bit.

[00:25:16]Okay, we can give it a try, Paul. I will I will clone And you Paul, it's the same link that you used before. Do you still have that, I assume?

[00:25:28]Um So, I'm going to clone Simon. Let's see.

[00:25:38]Duplicate move another version of him down here.

[00:25:43]And then we'll We'll make this guest two. So, Paul, if you've got a few minutes, you want to come on, that that will be great. I'm ready to receive you. We have another comment here.

[00:25:59]Laura is saying, "I feel like the source of my overthinking goes back to unpleasant interactions with my father as a small child."

[00:26:08]Now that I know this, I keep practicing in my head a fantasy of confronting him.

[00:26:14]So, [snorts] >> Absolutely. Yeah.

[00:26:17]>> Yeah, very very interesting comment, but very smart comment because overthinking all goes back to childhood.

[00:26:27]>> There is this phenomenon, what do they call that, Mark? Like, let's say you're at a dinner party and you're up going up the stairs back home at 11:00 at night.

[00:26:35]They call it the up the stairs like epiphanies about what I should have said.

[00:26:42]You know, it goes all the way back to childhood. What I should have told him, how I should have like shut him down, my responses.

[00:26:50]And it's And it doesn't end, right? 11 years later, we still have epiphanies about better responses I could have had and >> Ash, I think she's still trying to maybe go back to that childhood dealing with her dad.

[00:27:02]>> Well, let let me just say what tell you where this comes from. When children um when they learn language, they display a certain kind of a language called egocentric speech.

[00:27:13]And it's the child out loud talking out loud to themselves about themselves with no expectation ever but anybody's going to listen or respond. And the purpose of that external speech is to make themselves feel better. Here is Paul.

[00:27:29]And Paul, I'm going to assign you to guest two and you should pop up in the screen.

[00:27:35]Wait a minute.

[00:27:36]>> And Mark, when those kids grow up, it turns into this, the egocentric speech turns into you know, like doodling about make myself feel better.

[00:27:51]>> There, I got you, Paul.

[00:27:52]>> Hey, how's it going?

[00:27:54]>> Good to see you.

[00:27:56]>> Yeah, sorry about that the bad uh uh environment that I'm in right now.

[00:28:01]>> Yeah, no problem. I spend all day long talking to people in their cars. You you wouldn't believe it.

[00:28:07]So, let me finish my thought about this.

[00:28:09]So, what children learn to do is talk to themselves to make themselves feel better.

[00:28:14]>> Mhm. [clears throat] >> And when that egocentric speech goes inside, it becomes the voice in your head and we spend the rest of our lives trying to make ourselves feel better by talking to ourselves. And that's what Laura is sharing there and that's you know, kind of re recapitulation of a conversation.

[00:28:32]So, Paul, bring us up to bring us up to date on you and what how you doing with Moment Mindfulness and what what has changed if anything?

[00:28:42]>> Well, you know, um it really feels like a lot has changed and um you know, um I do talk to regular therapists as well.

[00:28:52]Um Oh, jeez. Sorry.

[00:28:54]>> I'm an irregular therapist, by the way.

[00:28:57]>> Uh you know, I I and I I mean this in the back Yeah, right. No, I I think it's everybody's got their own flavor, but um yeah, and you shouldn't limit your options, but um it it's interesting cuz it's kind of like I don't I'm almost kind of confused now a little bit about who I am.

[00:29:16]>> Oh, interesting.

[00:29:18]>> Yeah, um and you know, I still feel uncomfortable at times, um but I do have that new uh perspective, um it it and it does kind of broaden the options that are different than the narrow point of view that I was holding for a long time that was reinforced by those stories.

[00:29:40]>> Okay.

[00:29:41]>> Uh I I still find it difficult to let go of some of that stuff cuz it doesn't feel [clears throat] like tangible things that are making me come to those conclusions.

[00:29:52]So, it's it's been difficult for me to to you know, it but but I've noticed something. Now, I'm kind of confused because I don't know how to respond to certain people anymore uh because my inner narrative's changing.

[00:30:07]>> Okay.

[00:30:08]>> [snorts] >> So, what what has changed about your relationship to the voice in your head?

[00:30:16]>> Well, you know, I do want to say that it's a little bit I flatter and quieter.

[00:30:22]>> Okay.

[00:30:23]Do you think that's because you it's not as special to you as it used to be?

[00:30:30]>> Yeah.

[00:30:32]Yeah, it is. And and it's still there it's still there, but it's a little more, you know, muted. Um And I you know, I I I was uh taking a general anxiety program through my doctor. It was like a program, a class that they had and um And you the amygdala has feels pain. Like you can feel pain uh oh, sorry. Kind of lagging out. Um you know, emotional pain is uh something that you feel through your amygdala and you and you don't have to have a narrative to go along with that.

[00:31:10]Sometimes you just feel bad and and the narrative will apply your story to it.

[00:31:15]Say, "Oh, it's because of this and this and this."

[00:31:18]Um So so I have been able to detach a little bit. Um uh Simon sounds really good, though.

[00:31:28]>> [laughter] >> Uh I can tell a difference from watching the videos that he sounds different than before. Right? Yeah, I can hear it in his voice.

[00:31:36]>> Right.

[00:31:37]So what what one one more uh question.

[00:31:41]When the voice in your head speaks, like I need to get milk at the store or something, does it still feel like you or is it starting to change that relationship?

[00:31:52]>> It It is starting to change, but it's not all at once. I I I still kind of get caught up uh in in it, but I I again, I've I've kind of just disassociated that emotional pain from that voice because everybody's going to experience pain. It just separating it from that voice and the story about it is different. So, you know, it's >> Right.

[00:32:16]>> This This type of thing isn't going to make your pain go away. You know, you're still going to feel bad >> Right.

[00:32:22]>> about things.

[00:32:24]Going to use that voice to justify it anymore, which might limit some of your options of understanding it. And And And I would like to say, you know, I do believe my behavior has changed um towards others and towards myself and you know, I've had some positive experiences with the outlook. And and perhaps it's a little bit more subtle to me that I've noticed, but it the the shift might be uh more uh dramatic than I realized yet.

[00:32:48]>> Do you think Do you think One more question. I'll I'll let Simon ask you a question. Um do you think your perspective has changed? And by that I mean do you think you're able to see things from others' point of view more easily than you could before?

[00:33:05]>> I want to say yes. And and I had like an idea of that from before, you know, with the language, like I can understand what those words mean. But um Yeah, I I I I can feel it and it's a little bit more subtle as well. Like I think there's a lot of subtlety in this, but um when I'm interacting with certain people um it's it's not about so much about what I want from them or what they think about me, but you know, kind of listening trying to understand their point of view >> Uh >> a little bit more, uh which quiets my own narrative because it's not my narrative going with it. I'm trying to kind of like listen to theirs.

[00:33:45]>> Simon, do you have a question you want to ask Paul? Anything popping into your mind there?

[00:33:50]>> Yeah, [snorts] I do have a question for Paul. And it's like a like a visual question.

[00:33:56]Paul, imagine you and I are sitting at a dinner table in a restaurant, and both of our plates are empty, okay?

[00:34:05]Um people and these plates represent thoughts, like our psychology.

[00:34:10]Do you experience other people putting food in your plate that you want to reject?

[00:34:16]And do you experience you yourself putting food in your plate where you're like, you know what? Here's a thought, like how much am I going to pay for the valet guy outside? I'm going to give him a $10 tip. And you consume that, and you're like, I do I'm the one that chose that thought. I I the thought. I generated the thought.

[00:34:32]And that's something that was good for me. Like I'm going to consume it. But as soon as we get like childhood emotions, it's like someone else harassing me or mocking me. It's like, I don't want this food, man. And now I go go go go I have to like whack it off the table. I have to disregard it. I have to like just push it aside. And I go through these Do you go through that? Do you have like a plate in your head where thoughts come in of things that you want to do and then other people or these It can't just be me, right? It can't just be >> Um well, I I you know, I >> I create thoughts. How do your thoughts come up? Like >> Uh you know, um I get a lot of thoughts from other people. It's something that I've realized. Like, you know, you think for yourself, but I think I'm always thinking like what my brother thinks about this, what my mom thinks about this, what my dad thinks about this, or you know, the people around me.

[00:35:27]And it does affect my behavior and what I do. And it's kind of hard to have one singular thing.

[00:35:37]And it does seem like I'm getting a lot of stuff put on my plate from other people.

[00:35:42]That that um it's like uh coming from all sides. And that that comes from like the you know, the what what are the realization I've had is, you know, the world is like chaotic.

[00:35:53]And you can't control so much.

[00:35:58]>> How do you let it go?

[00:35:59]When when that thought is on your plate, what do you do to let it go? Like moment mindfulness says to just observe it. And then what? It'll just disappear off your plate? Or do you have to physically go through this exercise of letting it go? How do you let it go? Or what have you prac- What have you tried?

[00:36:19]>> Oh, man. Well, you know, I I try a lot of things. And like, you know, physical activity, like I I >> Like you try to burn it away like burn calories, you're just trying to burn the thoughts away?

[00:36:32]>> I do photography.

[00:36:34]>> Okay.

[00:36:35]>> pictures. I've been and or you know, transmute it into creative projects or go to therapy. Um you know, do you stuff like like this activity right now is some way that I do that, you know, make food. Um I mean, even when I'm engaged in uh in activity I I'll still have that in the back of my head, too.

[00:36:54]>> Cool.

[00:36:55]>> Sometimes >> let me interject something something here.

[00:36:59]This is very important. When you disidentify from the voice in your head, you don't care what it says anymore.

[00:37:08]You brush it all off your plate.

[00:37:11]Because you know you're not going to listen to somebody who is not you tell you what to do or what to think or how to feel. And you know that voice, as Paul said very well uh is being generated in response to pain and it's a you know, it's all childhood conditioning. And when you know and that's not a philosophy, when you know that voice no longer feels like you you disregard what it's saying.

[00:37:40]>> Yeah, you know >> it it doesn't land.

[00:37:43]>> Uh you know, as we talk, too, more stuff gets uncovered. Like it's not on the tip of my mind as soon as I get on here. But you know, I have I've had this level of detachment lately.

[00:37:55]>> Uh-huh.

[00:37:55]>> Um and and I I'm I'm like, well, I don't know if this is moment mindfulness or like unhealthy detachment, but it's like you always have that other thought. Like even it goes all the way up to like, well, maybe God is watching me. And then I had this idea of like, what if you just rejected everything?

[00:38:13]Everything. Like you're just fed up with it and you're like I don't care if what the hierarchy is of anything.

[00:38:21]I I'm just I need a break from this thought loop, you know, cuz it all kind of leads up. It's like you're worried about what your parents say or your boss or like I say I use the word God because you're people are kind of afraid to think negatively about something an omnipotent being that's always watching you. And I almost thought to myself, you know what? And I don't mean to sound like disrespectful to religious stuff, but it's just I need a break from all of that. You know, I'm sure there's >> You're talking you're talking about authority.

[00:38:51]>> Mark Mark, I've gone the opposite direction of exactly what he just said.

[00:38:55]He wants to reject everything. I was like, you know what? What if I just accept everything? Just yes to it all.

[00:39:01]>> childhood >> I think you're talking about two I think you're talking about two different things.

[00:39:08]rejection >> This is the like the the thoughts that are going in my head kind of thing. It's like when you're talking about the plates, it's like I just leave the restaurant. I I I just left the restaurant and I I just left the planet, you know, like I I I'm just like I don't even know what this is, you know, and >> So so Paul, uh uh Let let me Can you see Shannon's question there?

[00:39:34]>> Uh no.

[00:39:36]>> She [clears throat] is asking, "Are you saying that you're able to identify feelings apart from a narrative or running commentary?"

[00:39:44]>> Um What I what I recognize it as it's a physical manifestation of my amygdala, the the the a part of my brain that is the a sensory thing, like it it's it's just my physical body doing something like breathing, like experiencing fear is a part of your physiology. You're not going to be able to think that away ever.

[00:40:10]So it's detaching the emotion from the thought because usually if I'm in a bad mood, I go, "Oh, it's my job." You know, you'll come up with a reason and then you'll believe it. And and the reality is is you just might be feeling bad because you're tired or you're hungry.

[00:40:26]You don't know why cuz there's no logical reason. It's like thinking about breathing, you know? So because we're so logical, we're always trying to apply meaning to to the thoughts so we can fix them. But you can't fix some of this stuff. Um you can detach your thinking from it.

[00:40:44]And And so when I say uh reject everything, that's like rejecting every justification that anybody's ever come up with and then just living in my own timeline not influenced by anything else that I've been experiencing. Living in the present moment and going forward where, you know, I want to create a new narrative.

[00:41:08]Uh or a new relationship to the narrative in my head. And and it is kind of like a it's a there is a relief behind it. It's kind of like a zip cord on on a on a on a plane or something, you know? Like I just want to eject from it. And it's just it it's hard cuz you're anchored in there by all that narrative that you have in there. You know, it locks you in really [clears throat] hard.

[00:41:32]>> So the the the the comment I would make Shannon to the to your question is you know, life is painful, but suffering is all the thinking we do about the pain.

[00:41:42]And what we're doing on this channel is where we we're making people free from their suffering because suffering is coming from the narrative in your head.

[00:41:53]And if you want to go deep and parse this between pain and suffering, my feeling is you can do that, but if you take care of the part that's being generated by the narrative in your head, you're going to be far happier and more content with your life even though there are uh you know, there's some pain underneath that.

[00:42:12]However, that being said, if you follow along with what we do on this channel, there's a second step to this where we take care of the pain because the pain is always related to early childhood emotional learning.

[00:42:26]And so, we carry pain that generates narratives that we don't need to carry because we are simply not realizing the fact that we [snorts] have there the dots are connected.

[00:42:38]And so, but that's a discussion for another time. Before we run out of time here, Paul, is there any other any other thing you want to say kind of in summary here that you're working on, that you're realizing?

[00:42:54]>> Oh, well, a lot of stuff, you know, I've I've had a couple I'm going to actual not I don't want to say you know, I'm going to therapy as well. So, I'm talking to two other therapists as I'm doing this. I I'm when I say I'm confused, it's because I really think I'm opening up a new thing here. Um uh and and and I've had some positive uh outcomes in my life uh because of it because of it and it just like I said, it opens up a little bit more. Uh there's more options, I I think that I wasn't aware of before.

[00:43:28]>> Well, before we we leave you, I really appreciate you coming on even though you were at work and you took a break. Um you honored us with your presence. Anything in summary for you, Simon?

[00:43:41]>> Uh no, just glad we're going through this. Uh I'm glad >> [laughter] >> Um some I just let's see what another week of this brings, you know, uh maybe we'll continue realizations or stop using more methods. Like maybe I could just let the methods go and just accept it all.

[00:44:00]Just whatever's happening, accept it instead of having to reject everything one by one. I reject this and this and this.

[00:44:06]Just >> Shannon, we appreciate you joining us.

[00:44:10]We're living for the day when you get a better signal and you can come on.

[00:44:15]Um I'd rather see you than Simon and Paul, frankly, but just kidding.

[00:44:23]So, if anybody has anything, a comment or anything before we wrap this up this evening, you guys have have been great.

[00:44:32]I really appreciate both of you participating and taking your time to hopefully help some other people that are listening.

[00:44:40]>> Thank you, Mark. Thanks for putting this together. You know, it all comes from you. Thank you, sir.

[00:44:45]>> Yeah, I'm happy for the opportunity as well.

[00:44:48]>> Yeah. [clears throat] Paul, if you ever get off early enough to join us, we'd love to have you back.

[00:44:52]>> Well, you know, this seems to work pretty good. Um so, um you know, I work swing shifts, so uh but um we might be able to figure some things out if it's not too bad uh video quality.

[00:45:04]>> You've drifted in and out a little bit, but but it's been solid most of the time. So, it's actually better video quality than you have at your your place of residence, quite a bit better.

[00:45:16]>> I would believe that, yeah.

[00:45:18]>> Yeah.

[00:45:19]So, Shannon says it's so encouraging that there are guys out there doing their own interpersonal work.

[00:45:25]Absolutely.

[00:45:26]She says, "Thank you guys and keep practicing."

[00:45:30]All right, everybody. I will see you uh next Thursday 6:15. Join us Mondays at noon for couples with uh Rochelle Lane and consider joining our small groups.

[00:45:42]We're going to be meeting Tuesday at 9:00 a.m. Other than that, I'll see you next week at 6:15. Thanks so much.

[00:45:49]Bye-bye.

[00:45:51]>> Bye.