Matariki Special: The True Meaning of Matariki | Dr Rangi Mātāmua

[00:00:00]If it wasn't for a book that was handed down from one of his ancestors, we may not celebrate Matariki the way we do now.

[00:00:07]>> His last words to me were knowledge that isn't shared isn't knowledge. And I've really kept that as a mantra in terms of how Matariki's been brought back. Large portion of that owes itself to the knowledge that's contained within that manuscript. just had a really amazing conversation with, you know, an amazing man. Besides the fact that he supports New South Wales and he decided to wear a rubbish New South Wales jersey on my podcast.

[00:00:34]>> What a disgrace.

[00:00:35]>> You're not wearing that on the podcast, are you?

[00:00:37]>> You know, you would, >> you know, to be honest, I really don't know too much about Matariki. So, it was a great opportunity for me to ask, what is Matariki? What's its origin story?

[00:00:50]How do we celebrate it?

[00:00:52]>> Yellow stars are the oldest and most wellrecorded group of stars in human history.

[00:00:59]>> Wow.

[00:01:00]>> They are painted on a cave in um southern France 17,000 years ago.

[00:01:06]>> As a nation, as a people, I think if we implement what Matiki is about, I think the world will be a better place. So, don't forget to like, comment, share, and subscribe. Dr. Dangi, enjoy. This podcast is made by the amazing team at Fanaticals. They put up with me, so they're pretty epic.

[00:01:26]Before we get started, I just want to say a massive thank you to all the team at Pacific Business Trust. They're supporting over 2 and a half thousand Pacific businesses, entrepreneurs, and leaders just like me. So, they have all the support that you need there. So, for us, it was marketing, setting up a website, emails, all these different things that you don't know until you need to know. And they can be really challenging times. It can seem like it's a you're at the bottom of this mountain and you just don't know where to start.

[00:01:53]And what they can do is help you to get started and they walk alongside you the whole way up. So if you're a budding entrepreneur or you want to start a business or you might already have a business and just need some help, go over, check them out. Look up Pacific Business Trust and register. Sign up for help. Never be embarrassed to ask for help. You will not regret it. Trust me, I don't. But for now, enjoy the episode.

[00:02:16]Killer, bro. killed her mat. How's it going, my brother?

[00:02:20]>> Good. Good.

[00:02:21]>> Do you want to um sit down your jacket?

[00:02:26]>> Look, I I I I thought about you um as I was uh coming in today. You know, I saw you on one of your shows and you had this disgusting maroon color on. I thought um Matiki rose this morning and the stars were very blue and uh >> that's all. Sorry, bro. I just had to. I just had to. You know, >> you wore that specially for me, didn't you?

[00:02:50]>> I wore it specially for today.

[00:02:51]>> At least At least you're zipping it.

[00:02:53]It's like, you know, you turned your patch inside out.

[00:02:57]>> What have you been up to, bro?

[00:02:59]>> Uh, busy time for me, man. Um Um, so the Miki holiday uh is upon us and um it's uh I don't know. Oh, it's it's it's just pretty much taken over my life for the last 10 years and um >> busy busy time.

[00:03:17]>> Yeah, I don't know but you know I'm I'm half mai from and half sour but I don't know too much about matariki and it's it seemed to have um like had a resurgence. Is it would you call it resurg >> Yeah. Well, not a lot of people did know about it.

[00:03:33]>> Yeah. But um right across Polynesia, the Pacific um every island in uh Polynesia, you'll find Matariki. That's the name that they call the cluster of stars the plates on Easter Island in Hawaii uh Samour Tonga uh right across and here in Alteora and um before I guess the arrival of other cultures it was the main celebration um marking the beginning of our new year. But as we became probably Christianized and and colonized, we did away with traditional celebrations and we celebrated things that we imported from the other side of the globe.

[00:04:16]>> Yeah.

[00:04:17]>> Easter, Christmas. And so, um, not a lot of people grew up with it and I think it's made its way back into popular culture and part of, I don't know, the fabric of who we're becoming as a nation.

[00:04:33]>> Yeah. And like for a lot of people it's it's a public holiday.

[00:04:38]>> Yeah.

[00:04:39]>> You know, but there what's the importance of it?

[00:04:43]>> It's a cluster of stars that here in Ala um rises just before the sun in the morning. So, you know, when it's in that position that we're around the shortest day of the year, so it's when we celebrate our new year, you know.

[00:04:55]>> Wow.

[00:04:56]>> In the other side of the of the globe, they celebrate New Years in winter and so did we. But we imported a different calendar.

[00:05:05]>> Yeah.

[00:05:06]>> So now we celebrated in the middle of Christmas. And our ancestors, they they celebrated in winter cuz they knew um the summer would be returning. And it really was a time where people three main things, you know, that Matiki represents. It was a time that we reflected on the people that we had lost throughout the year. And we actually have a ceremony where we call out their names because we believe in that moment their spirit travels into the cosmos and becomes a star for eternity in the sky.

[00:05:37]We um celebrate the present like it's the winter feast feasting you know sleeping in doing all of the things that we find enjoyment in and we come together and celebrate each other really important for well-being. So we check in with each other. The third thing we do is we plan for the future. So we try and get together and talk about what our goals are going to be, our aspirations collectively, individually.

[00:06:05]It's a check-in time. It's a time of well-being. We reconnect to nature, reconnect to everyone. You're meant to slow down at this time of year. just take period of time off and just be with those our loved ones and our family >> with our ancestors with Matiki. How long was that period where we'd where we'd slow down? And >> it was probably around a month-long period. Yeah. Like you you think about it um we're part of nature as humans.

[00:06:38]And so we're meant to cycle like nature.

[00:06:41]trees there are they go through this period where they have lots of fruit and no fruit. Lots of leaves and no leaves.

[00:06:47]Um animals become fat in particular periods of time and very thin. They're active in some parts and not active in other parts. Well, at the moment they're not active. And so we're meant to be like that. We were meant to cycle and be really busy in the spring, summer, and autumn. And in the winter, your food store houses are full. Got lots of food around. it's been collected and so you feast and you relax and you take time and I think in a modern world it's something that's really important because we don't take time you know we just rush from one thing to the next is our period of pump the brakes spend time with loved ones and relax >> yeah there's something to that Abra I think you know you're right cuz I was rushing just to get here you know my life seems like it's one big rush.

[00:07:41]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, some idiot decided, let's have a holiday and then I'm the only, you know, it's not very holidayish for myself, I'll be honest.

[00:07:50]>> How did you get into this? You know, >> it's a long story. It's a bit of a story. So, um, my family comes from a very small community in the middle of the Udawa forest. I come from two, uh, main communities, Tahuna and Wareana.

[00:08:06]Um, an ancestor of mine in the late 1800s, um, was known in our community as a astronomical expert, mildy astronomy study. And he wrote a manuscript, 400 pages, where he records thousand Mai stars and, you know, 100 or so constellations and sun and moon and and and on his deathbed in his 1930s, he gave that to my grandfather.

[00:08:31]>> Wow.

[00:08:32]>> My grandfather had it all of these years. And in the 1990s, I went to university and Matariki was just starting to be talked about. I come home one day to him and I said, "Hey, you know anything about Madiki?" And he went to his cupboard and came back with this book and I've studied it uh since that time never thinking that I'd get into this field. But uh in 200 and2 he passed away and on his deathbed he said to me look that book's in heirloom so hold on to it but the knowledge in there find a way to share it. I think you know he he thought that there would be benefits for people in sharing knowledge. His last words to me were knowledge that isn't shared isn't knowledge. And I've really kept that as a mantra and just spent the rest of my life since then finding ways to share that knowledge and be part of sharing knowledge with different communities.

[00:09:31]>> When you first, you know, got that book, what what was your thoughts, bro?

[00:09:38]>> I actually opened it and saw how dense and how, you know, and I was like, yeah, do you just have a truncated version?

[00:09:46]It's like like I'm 19 20 years old, you know, the last thing I want to do is start reading old manuscripts. And I gave it back to him actually. And a year passed and then it dawned on me what it was. So I went back and and asked him, can I have it? And he said, "Look, you can, but you know, it's it's it's really precious knowledge." And so treat it with care and respect >> and um yeah. And so since then, I I know what a treasure it is. And um much of what we do in terms of how Matadiki has been brought back uh a a a large portion of that owes itself to the knowledge that's contained within that manuscript.

[00:10:27]>> Man, that's amazing. E and you say, you know, the last 10 years have been really busy. Is is that when it's really started to come back?

[00:10:36]>> Yeah. and um you know I'd started to do a lot of work in the space and started doing a lot of public lectures and getting out to different communities and talking to people and um then in 2017 I released a book on matiki and I thought to myself if I release the book I won't have to talk about it as much. Well that was a mistake because it just upped the ante. Um then in 2020 um I I can't it's a story man. I was um I got this email from the uh I think it was the one of the secretaries for the prime minister.

[00:11:17]>> Wow.

[00:11:17]>> said can you just jump online? And I thought I was jumping online with you know the the person in the email.

[00:11:24]And I didn't mean to be disrespectful but actually I was outside. I think I was weed eating. I had this big straw hat on and pair of overalls. This is a true story. And then I thought, "Oh, meeting. I'm about 5 minutes late." Cuz, >> you know, I run late to pretty much most things. And I rocked up and open up the screen and there's the prime minister and the cabinet.

[00:11:50]>> You're outside with your straw hat on.

[00:11:52]>> Got a straw hat on and overalls. I'm like, I'm so sorry. Anyway, she said to me, "Do you think we're ready as a nation for for Matiki to be a public holiday?"

[00:12:04]>> And I had no idea. But I said, "Absolutely.

[00:12:09]We are opportunity that I didn't want to see past cuz I believed in the values of it.

[00:12:16]>> You know, they speak to the best parts of who we are as people. you know, sharing respect, connecting to the environment, coming together to celebrate who we are. So, I suppose I might have lied and said, "Yep." And um yeah, I she asked me to set up a committee and establish the holiday and that's what we've done. So, since 2022, we're in year five now. Um >> jeez, time's flowing. Hey, 5 years. And not only is it here in Alteor, but last year Tahiti celebrated their inaugural Matari holiday. So, it's spreading back out across the Pacific as well.

[00:12:59]>> When you when you uh um you know, you formed your committee, did was there much push back when you were trying to you know, bring in the public holiday and the celebration of Matiki?

[00:13:11]>> Not really. I mean like um um who doesn't want a holiday? It wasn't overly difficult to sell. There was some political toing and throwing um like the opposition in parliament um didn't support it and not because they weren't supportive. I think it was just they >> didn't want to support the other side of the house. No, it was a political thing, but no. Um, there was no one that really pushed back against it. I mean, I guess it's connected to where we are in the world, right?

[00:13:48]>> Yeah.

[00:13:49]>> It's connected to And I think Kiwis are starting to come of age as a nation.

[00:13:57]We're starting to realize actually instead of looking perhaps to Great Britain to kind of >> mimic our identity, we have stuff here and stuff that's connected to where we are in the world and that's becoming a little bit of a, you know, part of our national identity, who we are as we grow as a nation. So, um, yeah, not too much push back. Yeah, >> cuz Matariki I mean it it's not just for Mai, right? It's for it's it's for everyone.

[00:14:29]>> You know those stars are the oldest and most wellrecorded group of stars in human history.

[00:14:36]>> Wow.

[00:14:36]>> They are painted on a cave in um southern France 17,000 years ago. You know um that the first astronomical reference in China is to the blossom stars. It's the uh Freya's chicks or hens to the Vikings. It's um in South America, North America, Africa, India, Kratika um and Subaru in Japan. Now every continent has a celebration, ceremony or narrative connected to birth, a new life, new year, planting, harvest associated to those um group of stars.

[00:15:20]So there's not a single person in the country or in the globe who don't descend from people that connect to those stars. So and then just in the Pacific, it's Matariki.

[00:15:30]>> So it's has this Polynesian uh associationship and connection as well. Is there any you know like you we have Matariki is there anything else that you know from our ancestors that that we should bring back you know so if we if we moving more away from the the colonized things like Easter and Christmas and all these things >> you know I I don't want to detract either from um from the celebrations of Christmas and Easter because they're important to um to sectors of of our population. Um no, I think Matariki is a wonderful celebration. We should celebrate that. And um New South Wales winning the state of origin last night, bro. That's that's a got to be a got to be a celebration.

[00:16:27]You know, I just want to say um tomorrow when it rises in the ceremony, I'm thinking of um calling out the name of Queensland as one of the one of the people we farewell into the night, one of the dead of the year.

[00:16:41]>> You think that's that's what happened?

[00:16:43]Was it just in the stars? Was just Matariki is the reason why um you know, I mean, it must have bamboozled the ref.

[00:16:53]>> Some of the calls were disgraceful. I think um I I I think it was the stars came up. They were very blue uh last night, so it was just our time.

[00:17:06]>> Oh my god.

[00:17:08]>> You know, I've been um I've been trying to forget this. I woke up this morning to a barrage of messages >> at the state of origin. Most of our staff, my family, all New South Wales supporters and I said, "Listen," I said, "It's just a game. We have more we've got more important things to worry about like world hunger.

[00:17:26]>> Yeah. Yeah. True. And Matariki.

[00:17:29]>> So bro, with Matariki celebrations, what what's what do you have going on?

[00:17:35]>> So um we've have a um a national broadcast of a ceremony, a traditional ceremony happens every year. Since 2022, the inaugural um celebration was held at Teapa in Wellington and then it moved to the year after 23. 24 was in South Island.

[00:18:00]Last year was in Orhakun. So it moves around to different areas and different regions. This year it's here to Ora. Um there is going to be a traditional um celebration that's open to the public and also broadcast live on TV where you can see they'll actually be doing karaka and karanglu the different stars in the cluster cuz they're connected to um the different domains our environmental domain. So we honor the environment from where we get our sustenance from. We farewell our dead and we uh look to the promise of a bright and prosperous future. So um there'll be a number of um members of parliament there. Auntie Fatu are hosting >> in Oakland City Council every year do um wonderful events and they've got light shows and concerts but the length of the country I I I really you know after 5 years um we we do know that the stats are showing us that um over 65% of the country are doing something to celebrate miki that's after 5 years so It's g gaining traction. I I think that's because it's the messages, right? It's about unity and collectivity and >> yeah, >> there are no political agendas of Matariki. It's beyond that.

[00:19:24]>> No one owns the sky.

[00:19:25]>> We all connect to it >> and it's as simple as coming together and having a meal.

[00:19:31]>> Did you ever think, Bo, that when you had that conversation with your straw hat on out mowing the lawns that here here you'd be?

[00:19:38]Never in my wildest dreams that I think I'd I'd be here. I mean like it's taken me around the world. I mean based on the work that I I've been doing in Matariki.

[00:19:50]I've been to NASA. I've been to Antarctica.

[00:19:53]I've looked at stars in you know in places like North Dakota, Machapicu.

[00:20:00]Been to the Royal Observatory in London.

[00:20:03]>> Wow. Um, you know, I've been around the world, helped other nations establish their own holidays. You know, it's been it's been a ride.

[00:20:14]>> You're the holiday maker.

[00:20:16]>> There's a band called the Holiday Makers.

[00:20:20]I mean, it's it's been a ride and a and a and a privilege.

[00:20:25]Now I I I if I if I'm honest, I think back to the words of my grandfather on his deathbed, you know, um your job is to share knowledge and but you don't share it. It's not knowledge. It'll disappear. And he believed, I think, well, I know he believed that there was benefits for all people. And I I'd like to think that I'd done some justice to what he asked me to do, you know. So I always think about that.

[00:20:54]um you know have I have I fulfilled his wishes. So that always resonates with me as well.

[00:21:01]>> Yeah. It's like um people only remember what you keep telling them.

[00:21:05]>> A I I always say that in BBM with uh our leaders, our team leaders. So you got to keep telling people about our origins of BBM.

[00:21:13]>> Yeah.

[00:21:14]>> Cuz if you if you don't the people coming in now don't they won't know that we started training in muddy fields out in the rain.

[00:21:21]>> Uh that's right. And I mean like one of the things I want to say, you know, of all I've talked about some pretty grandiose kind of things that I've we've been I've lucky enough to be involved in, but I always tell this story about the moment for me where I felt it had purpose and meaning, you know, and it wasn't a big event. Um I remember when I started lecturing and talking about and wrote the book about Matadiki and there's this wonderful part of the ceremony where we get a moment to farewell our dead of the year cuz grieving and the process of the way you express your grief is really important culturally and and and just for individuals. and either being able to in a safe and meaningful place and way express your grief cuz we all lose people and um if we don't deal with that often it can carry on and be difficult for us. And so our ancestors would wait for the rise of Matarik. And you'll see that tomorrow as part of the ceremony.

[00:22:27]And there's a part of the ceremony where they look to the star and they call out the names of the people they've lost and they weep. They hug each other and they, you know, talk to each other about the memories of those people and they let them go, you know, and knowing that they'll always be above them as a star.

[00:22:45]And so I traveled to Aussie. I traveled to um Australia talking. It was part of the book launch and there was this young girl that turned up and I'll never forget this. It's probably the most pivotal moment I think of the whole journey for me just this young girl and she waited after I'd you know spoken about Madiki. I was signing books with her mom and she came up to me and she said, "Oh, I've got a question." I said, "What's your question?" She said, "I really need to say farewell to my dad. He just passed a few months beforehand. It might have been the month beforehand.

[00:23:26]Is he Is he there? I I was like looked at her and I said, "What do you think?"

[00:23:31]She goes, "I think so because I need to tell him how much I love him before I send him on his way." And I was I don't know. I I think about that every time I talk about that story. It makes me think of the power of practice and ceremony and allowing people to grieve appropriately, you know. So that for me has made the entire journey worthwhile.

[00:24:01]It's something I've never like I lost my sister Vicki >> too soon cancer and uh very close to her even I never forget um I've never really seen my dad cry and all through you know the tongy he was strong like never s was not till he went to the church and uh we removed the you know the lid of the casket and just the whale >> of pain and I've never really um you know released it.

[00:24:44]>> I think like I'm going to try to put that to practice tomorrow. you know, >> I mean, like it's it it's it's it's it's can be quite confronting, right?

[00:24:54]>> And it's it's not saying that's the moment you have to do it, >> but it gives us opportunity >> because you're not doing it on your own, you know? So, there's this moment when you're all standing there and um they'll call out the names. It goes completely quiet and you're in this moment where you're it's dark and the cluster and the stars are twinkling and then people will just start to call out the names of the dead that they're associated to and you just hear people go oh they'll say that's right and then there's weeping and you see people uh embracing each other you know and then sometimes they say I love you dad you know love you mom I love you so and so and They weep and there's this moment which just gives this emotional outpouring and you know it's that part of the ceremony where we do acknowledge our dead then it shifts.

[00:25:52]>> Yeah.

[00:25:53]>> And you shift into this. Now it's time to celebrate us.

[00:25:57]>> Yeah.

[00:25:58]>> And it's not it's a time where we say how you been. Ah it's so good to see you. Let's sit down and see how fat we can get in the next two days. You know, let's just binge watch a whole um you know, the whole um >> unfiltered with David Telly.

[00:26:16]>> Yeah, bro. Followed up by three games of State of Origins.

[00:26:22]>> It But it's it's this, bro. It's laughter. It's banter. It's interaction.

[00:26:27]It's >> it's that before we get back to our busy lives. This is the essence of matariki.

[00:26:34]Tears, laughter, joy, feasting, all those human emotions, they come to the surface at this time.

[00:26:41]>> Yeah. And then and then it's just thinking of the future.

[00:26:45]>> Then we look and think, okay, you know, >> can we win next year?

[00:26:52]>> Cuz you know, if Ponga didn't get sent off in the in in the first game, that was a disgrace. We would have been two two nil. True. If Ponga learned how to tackle and stopped shoulder charging people in the head, I think he wouldn't have got sent off for I mean the the game aside, uh I think that um Matiki is an opportunity not for us to celebrate who we are but who we want to be.

[00:27:24]>> Yeah.

[00:27:24]>> You know, and who do we want to be? Do we want to be reflection of some of the really I can know negative stuff that's portrayed >> you know around the world and starting to be reflected in our um in our society or do we want to be a vibrant open loving diverse um rich uh connected community of of people who actually care about each other. Yeah, >> that's what I want.

[00:27:59]>> Yeah.

[00:28:01]>> One of the big things I was thinking about as uh we were sort of reflecting in BBM is uh wanting to be content.

[00:28:12]>> Yeah. I I don't think I can truly be happy until I'm really just content with things. M >> I think being I don't know not being content I guess it has an advantage of I want to keep pushing but it's also you're never really happy cuz you're always wanting more >> push for more.

[00:28:27]>> Yeah that's that's such a good thing to reflect on too.

[00:28:33]And I I you know, I wanted to say something to you as well, you know, in all honesty, cuz I I watch I watch your show and um I do get asked to come on a lot of podcasts and I don't go on a lot of podcasts unless I see the values of Matadiki in those podcasts. I see what you do, you know, and I see your podcast and and the mahi that you do uplifts communities and enriches people's lives and and those are the values in Matariki as well. So, I know this is the busiest time of my year.

[00:29:12]I've got to leave here and go and have dinner with the prime minister. Um um but well I wanted to come on today because I I um really admire your work.

[00:29:23]I do and I mean that sincerely and I just want people to know I I'm not getting paid to say that either. Um but I admire what you do, the way that you work with our communities and uplift people's lives.

[00:29:36]When we're working to enrich others lives, I think that's one of the tenants of of madiki is it's this cluster of stars. I have nine, some people have seven. They're all unique, represent different things, but when they rise in the morning tomorrow morning, they'll rise in unity as one, showing that we can be different and unique, but come together as one people. And so I see that's what you do in your life. and with your work and and that's the reason why when I got asked to come on I was like >> thank you bro I appreciate that man I think a lot of the times a like even when I think of >> like the stuff we do we do instinctively cuz it's who we are >> but I before I even knew about that's just the way that you know we worked in BBM the way I carried self. So, appreciate you, bro. Um, last question cuz I know you got to go to the prime minister.

[00:30:42]I don't want to make you too late.

[00:30:45]Um, can you ask him for some funding?

[00:30:46]But, bro, I ask everyone this question.

[00:30:52]What's What's your why? What's What's keep driving you? Was it the promise to your grandpa or your cuddle?

[00:31:03]>> Uh, I think it is. I think it is um I always reflect on on those words that he left me.

[00:31:11]Um he was a real ah he was a gentleman you know he was a real hardworking honest family man and had values and principles and um I I think um I've been fortunate so fortunate to have my grandparents and my parents and the family that I have and some really good and wonderful mentors. Um, and you know, I I suppose I truly believe that culture is a key for prosperity for all of us. And I'm not talking about financial prosperity.

[00:31:55]What I'm talking about is really prosperity in a way that we can prosper as a people. you know, collectively we can unify and come together. Really easy to, you know, tear things down to look at the um things that we don't do well and complain about others, but you know, coming together and just to celebrate all the good things that make us who we are. That's that's my why. Yeah.

[00:32:25]>> Thank you, bro. Thanks for sharing. You know, when I hear you say that, it's really powerful, bro. And I'm so grateful you came on cuz just that I can take from it and learn like, >> you know, stop just be just be grateful and, you know, stop complaining about things I can't control >> and just keep trying to bring people together. All all our people.

[00:32:53]>> Yeah.

[00:32:54]You know, you got to stop complaining about the referee from last night, bro.

[00:32:59]Cuz you know, I got >> that guy needs to be in rehab.

[00:33:04]>> And he's obviously got other things on his mind. I mean, that was a that that that a pivotal point where he called that a How was that not a knock on?

[00:33:13]>> No, it was a knock on.

[00:33:15]>> And and and the bunker, he must be doing something else. What? Cuz he was not watching the game. How that I mean, honestly, that's a disgrace. You know what? But I'm I'm you know to be honest I'm off it. I'm off it. I'm off origin.

[00:33:28]You know we Hey, we're New Zealanders.

[00:33:31]You know we don't we got to celebrate New Zealand things. Up the w >> and and if they lose, go the All Blacks.

[00:33:42]Well, bro, thank you so much, man. I appreciate you. Please keep your jersey on, >> jacket zipped up.

[00:33:48]>> Thank you, bro. It's always a pleasure.

[00:33:52]Thank you so much for watching team. I hope you enjoyed the episode. Don't forget to like, comment, share, and subscribe. And if you got something out of this, if it's helped you or someone you know, please go down to the link below and buy us a coffee. It's hard to keep this going, but we must. So, please help us to help you. Let's go.