Government crisis threatens Ukraine’s EU bid | News in Depth

[00:00:00]Hello and welcome to News in Depth. I'm your host Benjamin Lee. Now Ukraine's latest government reshuffle has raised as many questions as it has expectations. President Vladimir Zillinsky says the changes will make the country more effective in a prolonged war. While critics warned they could weaken reform efforts and concentrate power. Joining us today on News in Maenowski, editor-inchief of TVP World to examine what these changes could mean for Ukraine and its European future.

[00:00:28]Hello and welcome to news in depth.

[00:00:29]>> Hello. Thank you very much.

[00:00:31]>> Now, President Zinski says a reshuffle is about improving government execution rather than changing strategy. Is this about performance or are there any political calculation behind it?

[00:00:42]Well, if it is again about performance, uh then President Zalinski or his office failed to explain what was wrong, what was unperforming and uh which is exactly what what the streets of of um Keefe and and many other uh cities around the country uh are telling him. young people are are demonstrating with their cardboard uh protest uh and uh they are demanding uh to reverse the changes. So uh if not on the merit then uh we have to suspect something else.

[00:01:26]All right. Process of elimination and if it's >> not exactly I I I think that there is a you know there are tensions between people who have been there for for longer than the newcomer only in his early 30s uh former defense minister Fodorov who is uh considered to be the one who who managed to uh make the uh Ukrainian army a real uh challenge for for Russia especially using his urban drone uh warfare >> right definitely we'll be going to the military leadership reshuffle but uh looking at the whole political structure some analysts are suggesting that this is perhaps also about positioning Ukraine for the eventual post-war political transition or even election do you see any evidence of that or are we reading a little bit too much into the Oh, it is definitely u the question of whether uh Ukrainian leadership uh want to win election or want to win the war.

[00:02:37]>> Uh bec uh this is uh really raising this this question. It may be a cynical question because of course they want to to win the war but obviously they are not forgetting about u their future after the war. uh whether it is next year or on in a few years uh time this is uh a struggle for power definitely for uh wider gap on on uh uh on power and uh uh it uh doesn't look good for the uh Ukrainian um bid for for EU membership uh because uh the country which is uh uh governed in in in in such a way that uh street protests uh can uh impose uh changes on the most important uh u administration posts uh you know people responsible for for war effort of of the country and these changes can be uh imposed by by a crowd of of enthusiastic young people, mostly young people with these cardboards as we said. Uh it shows that the the system based on on uh you know there's a pyramid on on top of which is the is the president. Uh but he uh he has uh completely apparently no control from uh from the parliament.

[00:04:20]Last year he tried to to immobilize in fact the anti-corruption body um Nabu uh and uh he failed because the street demanded he he he should reverse his he his decision this time uh he wanted to solve the personality problem uh personality clash in the Ministry of Defense by just removing one of the uh persons involved in this. But uh you know it is uh not good to change horses in the middle of of of the river where you cross this river and uh and uh but this is what's happening. Uh I think it's it's already uh the second change of of uh uh supreme commander during the war and the second or even third change of uh of defense minister which is um very bad for which would be abnormal for a for a peaceful situation in any other country but it's especially dangerous in in a country which is waging a war or defending itself against a war and uh I think uh coming back to my uh earlier statement, this is u showing that the system in which the president uh thinks that he can uh rule the country uh single-handedly without the control from parliament in which he has huge majority. Uh without trying to to to to ease the uh pressure from from courts and uh also gagging uh media. Uh this system proves to be inefficient and prone to defeats like the one which is now being observed.

[00:06:30]which means that uh Europe, the European Union may not be that keen to admit to it.

[00:06:38]Ukraine uh Ukraine into into the club >> uh because uh the the system is far from democratic ideal >> right like you mentioned it does call into the question of the stability and the maturity of be its government or its democracy as well. Now a very interesting thing you brought up also uh Ukraine is in a time of war and these kind of switching kind of players Midgame is sort of dangerous as well. So of course a lot of tension is on reshuffle is focused on military leadership and we have the latest announcement from President Zalinski on that. So let's take a look.

[00:07:20]I have decided that Mail Draati will become the new commander-in-chief of the armed forces of Ukraine. Together with Mikailo Yenara and Pavlo Palisa, we determined how the configuration of the general staff of the armed forces of Ukraine should be renewed. It is a fact that Alexander Syski delivered results for Ukraine in the defense of Kiev, the Hark offensive operation, and the Korsk operation. Significant progress has been made. Ukraine's defense continues, and every warrior must be treated with dignity. I am grateful to Alexandra Serki and every one of our warriors for Ukraine's strong positions on the front.

[00:07:54]I am grateful to Mikail Draati for sharing this approach precisely.

[00:08:01]>> Now a lot of controversy surrounding the reshuffle isn't necessary the cabinet reshuffle itself but it was a apparent clash between defense ministry and military leadership. And what does this tell us about how Ukraine is trying to adapt it war effort after more than four years of fighting?

[00:08:17]You know let's start with a statement from the president. He says that sirski was great commander organizer and so on. why was he fired? Uh and uh there is this he himself uh the president admitted that there was this clash between uh uh the old school uh commanderin-chief u Siri and a new breed of of reformers uh on top of which is uh is Mr. or was Mr. F of sitting uh but uh he only mentioned the clash but what was the nature of it what was wrong with Mr. Sitski that he was finally dismissed uh and and why in the first place uh moved on it it's all unclear. It's it's again this is the result of this um unhealthy situation in which uh the president is not responsible u in front of uh of the uh of the parliament. He he he doesn't have to to uh present the record reasoning or whatever. He just says this one uh comes in, this one goes away. We see we also don't know why uh the former government was removed.

[00:09:54]>> Uh it's uh however the the new prime minister, the very efficient technocrat uh Mr. Kuritzky is looks like uh a good candidate but why the previous prime minister uh was wrong we don't know we it's it's it's all discretion of the president and he doesn't even bother to properly explain uh to the population why >> right of course lack of transparency also give a lot of tensions to it as well now when it comes to the switching of military personnel some military experts observing the reshuffle see this just not just change in names or personality, but also what they represent as well. We have a sound bite from Stefan Korchek, senior defense correspondent from the Key Post. Let's take a look.

[00:10:43]Fiorov is an advocate of maximum uh technicalization, maximum drones, minimal use of personnel and uh taking on Russia uh using that kind of technology. Sirki is a classic soldier and he says you can't gain ground without uh infantry without tanks without artillery.

[00:11:08]So that's one line of thinking that the clash of personality also have to do with the old school way of conducting war and kind of the new age drone and technology focus or way of defending itself against Russia. Do you think that is mostly what's causing the tension or um are there any other kind of power struggle underneath? The power struggle is not only uh you know something uh it's it's it's not only political I believe it's uh also the uh transparency of uh you know it the war lasts has lasted for over four years now and you know these new structures of of um less open or quick uh orders of uh equipment worth uh billions. In fact, uh it's it it opens gates to to uh smart uh uh earning of of of uh of money, little cut here and there. Uh so it seems that that Fedruff was was imposing uh a very open procurement uh system online u which may have been contested not necessarily by sirski but by all the uh old guard which which you know hid in behind his back and uh maybe this he was demanding some brush shuffle in which Serski uh exerted some pressure on the president. We don't know.

[00:12:51]>> Like I said, a lot of uh reformed oriented ministers have left government which does raise a lot of concern among more anti-corruption advocates and um the question would be then how significant is that for especially concerning that Ukraine is pursuing EU membership is that going to significantly hinder their prospects?

[00:13:11]But you know the whole system as I said is is uh uh so uh non-transparent and and uh uh really created in favor of one uh branch of power. Uh so all these balances are not uh uh and controls are not uh properly implemented and then the result of that are all these uh uh small wars here and there and u it seems that the new people who are coming in place of of the removed uh prime minister and uh the minister of defense are actually people with with the reputation of being uh reformist and and looking uh like uh really professionals and modern-minded people >> right now. Um also we do have a little bit of time. I do want to turn to Europe as well as the 21st sanction has been put forward. Uh we have an announcement from Commission President Ursula Vanderland.

[00:14:22]Today we are putting forward the 21st sanctions package.

[00:14:28]We focus on the sectors with the highest impact that is energy.

[00:14:32]It is financial services and crypto trade and this time it includes for the very first time fisheries and we are banning the entry of former Russian combatants into the European Union. At the same time, we will continue targeting the shadow fleet.

[00:14:51]Today, we propose listing 30 more vessels on top of the 632 already sanctioned.

[00:15:00]For the first time, we are also targeting vessels that assist the shadow fleet.

[00:15:07]>> All right. So just to clarify, this is an announcement made on the 9th and we're looking at the EU 21st package already. But there has been quite a hurdle when it comes to getting this one through its threshold. Why has agreement on EU's 21st sanction package become so difficult to reach? you know, uh, people in Brussels and in member countries hope that after the removal of the, uh, uh, you know, the bad boy from from, uh, Budapest, Prime Minister Orban, uh, would free all the problems. it appears and reminds the uh the whole union that this is a u union of 27 countries of all of which have different interests and in this case the the hurdle is uh Greeks uh uh reliance on on uh sea trade and then they are very much involved involved also in transporting oil which includes also uh and transporting LG which was the main case uh here and uh the ban on on on Russian exports of LNG would mean a big harm for the whole economy of Greece. So uh you know it uh it's uh it only shows that that you know uh you if you are enough far away from the border from the front line uh you think more about your economic problem.

[00:16:50]So this is correct. There's nothing uh special about it. the the role of of of uh Brussels and this environment in in Brussels is to to create compromise. So there will be compromise on that sooner or later uh hopefully today and uh and this hurdle will will be um overtaken and I'm sure uh you know with this uh compromise we we will uh move on and probably the next 22nd uh package will be even more restrictive restrictive uh for Russia. But if you look at at what's going on uh in this war, we can see that uh in fact it is the Ukrainian war effort which is helping most which is uh you know these uh long range drones attacking Russian energy uh system very successfully. now or also the internal trading system uh in the country it's uh really causing much more problems to Mr. more effective way of sanction than perhaps what the process >> sanctions are necessary of course as well >> of course now we'll have to see whether or not national economic interests will start increasingly challenge the common policy towards Russia but in the meantime thank you so much for your input and insight really appreciate it >> thank you very much >> and thank you for tuning into this edition of news in depth but for more news update and commentary please stay tuned to TVP