The Cost Of Victory - McManus Podcast

[00:00:00]How you doing, Dad? I'm doing so good.

[00:00:02]How are you doing? Doing well. This weekend was exciting.

[00:00:05]This weekend is a sports lovers dream. I mean, it was probably it has to be one of the greatest sports weekends of all time. I think the only sport that was left out was professional American football.

[00:00:20]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, maybe. Yeah, they they have their own dedicated month. Or or baseball, too. But we had we had the opening of World Cup. We had Lewis Hamilton winning winning a trophy for Ferrari. He got first. It was huge. You have Stanley Cup finals. You have UFC 250 at the White House. And you had the Knicks bringing the NBA championship over the Spurs to New York for such a big weekend for the first time in what, 50 years?

[00:00:47]It's incredible. 53 something years or something like that. Jalen Brunson, Mikal Bridges, Karl-Anthony Towns, Josh Hart. What a what an incredible squad. It's crazy that you have not been alive in a year where the Knicks won a championship until this year. No, and and you know, we let's talk about bandwagoners, but we've been Clippers fans since I was a kid. And so, you know, I I always said like I'm allowed to like a team that's good. Because the Clippers have been so bad so many times, you know? So, if if another team's great, yes, easy to support. So, like a bandwagoner, I'm a bandwagoner. I don't know. It's a fan. It's fine. It's It's good. I want the Nick I want teams to succeed. I don't like Wembanyama. Nothing personal.

[00:01:32]Wembanyama is not my flavor.

[00:01:34]You know? But I I love I love the Knicks. I'm so happy for my friends in New York. So happy for for for everybody. Like the streets going nuts.

[00:01:42]The streets going nuts. I hope I can get there by the parade. Yeah. Well, I I was telling you I don't think I've been so proud of living in Queens as a kid than I have this series.

[00:01:53]Just watching the Knicks finally bring it home.

[00:01:56]You you I think it's okay to be a bandwagoner because if you love sports and your team's eliminated, are you are you supposed to stop being interested?

[00:02:07]Or do you or do you pick a team and you go with them? And then when those teams are eliminated, you pick a team, you go with them. And And so I I think the natural instinct of a sports fan is to in some sense bandwagon, to go this is who's left, this is who I choose.

[00:02:25]And I saw a map about who was cheering on the Spurs and who was cheering on the Knicks.

[00:02:30]And I think it said New York was cheering on the Knicks and Oklahoma as a state was cheering on the Knicks.

[00:02:37]>> Okay. [laughter] >> And the other 48 states were cheering on the Spurs.

[00:02:40]>> Really?

[00:02:41]>> Yes.

[00:02:41]>> Felt like that. How interesting. I mean, I I know that I had friends from Boston who refused to be excited about the Knicks.

[00:02:49]They're like, we can't we can't support any New York team. So I I can't, you know, I can't.

[00:02:53]>> I I can understand that. If you're from Boston, you have to be >> I get it, but I'm like, okay, well, I don't [laughter] know. I guess the East Coast loyalty is not a thing.

[00:03:01]>> No, I mean, when you think about Boston's history and you even think about football where you know, the the two times Tom Brady and the Patriots got stopped, it was Eli Manning and the New York Giants.

[00:03:14]>> were the kryptonite. Tom Brady's kryptonite.

[00:03:16]>> Yeah, there's just so much there. I think it was Bill Parcells who was the coach of the Giants for 5 minutes and then was offered the job at the Patriots and he left the Giants and went to the Patriots.

[00:03:29]Sorry, no, it was Belichick who did that.

[00:03:32]>> Belichick?

[00:03:33]>> Yeah, Belichick. I think it was.

[00:03:34]>> Okay, so we we have the World Cup that's opened. US men's national team scored four goals.

[00:03:39]>> Incredible against Paraguay.

[00:03:41]Huge win.

[00:03:42]>> Yeah, and Paraguay has actually played really well in the past few months.

[00:03:46]They were not an easy opponent. And a A of people did not expect us to win and certainly no one expected us to dominate. That first half of the US match was perhaps the best 45 minutes of international soccer the United States has ever played.

[00:04:05]>> Ever played. I mean, when you have Zlatan saying this is impressive.

[00:04:10]>> Yeah.

[00:04:11]>> And he he will he will trash on anything that he sees as average.

[00:04:15]>> Yeah. Oh my gosh.

[00:04:16]>> out and said he said if if American come out and play like they played in the first half, they have a shot.

[00:04:20]>> Yeah.

[00:04:21]>> Don't count them out.

[00:04:22]>> Yeah, so if you if you love sports, this has been an incredible weekend. And and I I think what makes sports so intriguing and so compelling are the human stories behind it.

[00:04:32]>> Mhm.

[00:04:32]>> You know, I mean at for me F1 was all about Lewis Hamilton and just following his story and and even over the past few years he's had a kind of a rough go.

[00:04:42]>> [laughter] >> Yeah, it's it's it's good seeing him win again.

[00:04:46]>> Yeah.

[00:04:46]>> It's good seeing him win again. Good seeing him up there cuz you know, F1 is so unique because they they bring in drivers at such a young age. So to have a guy in his 40s like Lewis who's just been winning for so long and so so dominating for you know, a decade and a half.

[00:05:01]It's it's a you kind of wonder like okay, well, did he lose his speed? You know, did he did he has he given it up?

[00:05:06]Like is it and it's and it's it's it's fractions of a second. Right? Like the top three places were all in 1 minute and 14 seconds.

[00:05:14]>> Mhm.

[00:05:15]>> And they were all within like 1/1000 or 2/1000 of 2/1000 of a second. So they're just fractions of a second off from each other. You know, the whole grid is only like 5 seconds apart. So it's just a really unique experience. I'm so happy to see him. You know, it's controversial cuz Kim Kardashian is now dating Lewis Hamilton, it seems. So that's a whole thing. People love to to to to to to give them a hard time to give him a hard time, but I'm just happy to see him winning. I'm happy to see him in it.

[00:05:41]It's pretty impressive. Okay, so I got to get your take on a few things. I'm sure this will get us in trouble, but how did you feel about the very controversial UFC 250 match at the White House in honor of the United States turning 250 years old, but also in honor of Donald our president Donald Trump turning 80.

[00:06:02]People on the left said this is, you know, blasphemous. This is heresy. This is This is a stain, a blot on the American history. How could you let this happen? And I'm watching it last night.

[00:06:15]That fly over that opening, the Star-Spangled Banner, the the Pledge of Allegiance like all that Was it the Pledge of Allegiance or the Star-Spangled Banner? That's what it is.

[00:06:21]>> [laughter] >> Um and then you had 80,000 people outside on the on the lawn watching on these big LED screens and it just felt cool. It just felt really impressive. I don't know. I liked it, but I want to hear your take about UFC 250 at the White House. What are your thoughts?

[00:06:35]>> It it is interesting. I was talking to one of our friends who is a huge UFC fan.

[00:06:40]And he travels to these fights all the time and I asked him if he was going.

[00:06:45]And he said no and and part of it is cuz he was going to the World Cup to see Brazil, his home country. And it was family's home country and but he said no, I wouldn't go to that fight anyway because, you know, I don't like him and he didn't even say President Trump's name. He just said I don't like him as you know.

[00:07:02]>> Yeah.

[00:07:03]>> So I wouldn't go to that.

[00:07:04]And and so I understand that for people for many people it's it was a political event.

[00:07:11]And I'm not a USC UFC kind of guy.

[00:07:14]>> No, you You're not a big fan.

[00:07:15]>> No.

[00:07:16]I respect it. I just can't it's almost too brutal for me to watch. It's really really hard for me.

[00:07:22]>> I I I understand that side of it. Yeah, it makes sense.

[00:07:25]>> And when I went live to What was it? Madison Square Garden or Barclays Center? Was it It was in New York somewhere in New Jersey.

[00:07:34]>> Yeah, you think you were Yeah, I don't remember which center you were in. Yeah.

[00:07:36]>> And I was in in that space, it felt like I was in the era of the Roman gladiators and it was a little more than I could handle but I really respect the the the the courage and the intensity and the competition of it. So my take was I didn't have a take at first. Like I I did I didn't have an opinion. I didn't feel anything emotionally. I wasn't for it or against it.

[00:08:07]Then you text me and said, "Are you watching?" and I was not. And you said you should at least watch the opening.

[00:08:12]So I went and watched the opening and I'm going to be just straight up honest.

[00:08:17]It sucked me right in.

[00:08:20]I I don't know why. It just felt patriotic. It felt celebratory. It felt weirdly enough it felt appropriate.

[00:08:29]But what it really felt like it reminded me of and I'm not old enough to remember this personally of of what Truman would have been like because Truman felt to me like a a common man's president. I think he only had a high school degree or something like that.

[00:08:46]And and weirdly enough Donald Trump who is a billionaire who loves gold and and gaudiness in so many ways has an unique way of connecting at a very blue collar level.

[00:09:03]Because UFC is very much a a blue collar like tribe culture and even though a lot of people affluence go to these matches too.

[00:09:15]And I didn't feel anything strangely enough I didn't feel anything negative. I actually felt incredibly inspired.

[00:09:26]And then I watched a couple of the matches. I had to fast forward a little bit and then I it was like watching a horror film. I I I would fast forward then go back and watch it. Go, "Okay, what happened in this fight?"

[00:09:35]And I was impressed.

[00:09:38]Um I thought it was really really well done.

[00:09:41]And and yeah, it it it it you know, I I have to give it to Donald Trump. I think I think he nailed it. I think it was a great event.

[00:09:50]I think it had it it had a huge celebratory essence to it.

[00:09:58]People were celebrating the United States of America. People were celebrating our 250-year anniversary.

[00:10:04]And uh and there were some pretty intense powerful fights with upsets along the way, too.

[00:10:10]>> I mean I I I was trying to get you to watch it cuz I kept go I you know, I called you and Mom and you FaceTimed you guys and I think you guys were watching something a documentary or something else. And I was like you got to turn it on at least watch the intro cuz the intro was cool. And then you fly over to the I think it was the Blue Angels and you had I don't know if it was Blue Angels, but you had all these fighter jets flying over. You had the Zac Brown Band doing the music. It was just exciting. It was cool that there was 4,000 people in this cool unique dome with the White the back and you know, and then you have the the Washington Monument down the road and then you and then you just and then you see this crowd of 80,000 people on the lawn.

[00:10:44]>> Yeah.

[00:10:44]>> Like that's special. It's pretty cool.

[00:10:46]>> Yeah, and for my best understanding um Dana White paid for it. I think it was like $60 million or something like that for the event.

[00:10:54]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:10:55]>> Um so you know, our taxes didn't pay for it.

[00:10:58]Obviously our taxes are going to be involved in security and other things like that.

[00:11:01]>> Yeah.

[00:11:02]>> You know, the White House paying for that. Uh but if you could just look at it from the other side of it, if you're President Trump, you know, usually every president gets in a sense the honor and the privilege and the fun of celebrating championship teams.

[00:11:17]And they'll go to the White House when President Obama was president and or they would go to the White House when when Biden was president. And a lot of the teams have chosen not to go there.

[00:11:28]And so Trump really hasn't had that kind of celebration.

[00:11:32]But the UFC seems to actually love Donald Trump.

[00:11:38]And so for him, it it probably is the only sport in America where the top athletes would go, "Oh, it's a privilege to go to the White House. It's a privilege to meet the president. It's a privilege to receive this honor." So I could see from a human perspective why it would mean so much to him.

[00:11:57]>> I thought it was cool. I thought it was cool. I thought Dana White killed it.

[00:12:01]You know, I don't agree with everything Dana White does. I don't I don't always love the UFC. I've been I come to enjoy it more. You know, I have friends who who do jujitsu and I've I've like tried to learn a few times and and keep going back to just get beat up.

[00:12:14]>> [laughter] >> What it feels like and and um Yeah, and it's just I find it like I learning more about the technical side from from your friend who is a mutual friend. Like I love him. He's one of your great friends and he's he's super smart. And and also like he's one of those people who like when he picks something to be a fan of, he like learns everything about it.

[00:12:34]So he's like he's an easy person. You can call him or text him and be like, "Why is this a thing?" And he'll explain exactly why this fighter is better than this fighter or why this >> totally respected why he wouldn't go.

[00:12:43]>> To- totally. So so like you get to choose. Yeah. You get to choose what you like and don't like and you can you're like that's that's also I think about it and I you know, we've talked about this in the past and we have friends who like us and don't like us based on our politics and we've definitely lost friends and he's not one of those people.

[00:12:59]>> No.

[00:12:59]>> He he kind of always >> We we argue all the time.

[00:13:02]>> He's one of those guys who like when he has new even when he has newborns, him and his wife are so cool. They like they just figured it out like, "All right, go to go to that event but be be back." You know? And he's just one of those fun guys. And he he's also one of those guys where you're around him and you learn.

[00:13:13]Like he he loves food. So I've learned a lot about food. He he loves jujitsu.

[00:13:18]Learn a lot about that through him. But but even with that like I wouldn't go to the trips with you guys on the on the the UFC trips cuz I'm like, "Ah, I'm just not like the the biggest fan." And I think knowing you guys were there at turning it on and watching me like, "Okay, that's interesting." But I There's such a nuance there, and the technical side of the jiu-jitsu is like really unique to me. So, watching Bo Nickal as a wrestler take that guy down, that was that was fun. That was interesting. You know, it was maybe an underwhelming card.

[00:13:44]I think it was like the one thing there was a lot of criticism around that the fight card wasn't competitive enough.

[00:13:48]But you had Ilia Topuria, who was supposed to just rip Justin Gaethje apart. To watch Justin Gaethje go a few rounds and land that uppercut, and then just I mean, it's brutal to say, but he tore his face up.

[00:14:06]And to watch a guy get in the ring and show up again and again with his who's supposed to win. It would have been so easy for him to just throw in the towel, but he fought as far as he could into that fight. And it was just It was a very honorable, respectable thing to do as a fighter. I hope to see him come back and and keep fighting, keep winning belts, and and go back after it. I hope Justin Gaethje retires. What a way Not cuz I don't want him to retire. What a way to What a way to go out. I hope he doesn't retire. I hope he just literally stops picking up the phone.

[00:14:33]>> I I don't know if I should say this, but Topuria >> Topuria, yeah.

[00:14:38]>> He's such a handsome man.

[00:14:39]>> He's such a stud. No, he's [laughter] a stud. He's elegant in his interviews.

[00:14:44]>> And and it was really hard for me to watch this um >> He's very cool, very yeah.

[00:14:51]>> elegant, very cool, very honorable, very handsome man, just looked emaciated. It just beat to death.

[00:15:01]>> it's bad.

[00:15:02]>> And that was hard. That was hard for me.

[00:15:04]>> meat.

[00:15:05]>> I I kept wanting him to stop the fight.

[00:15:07]>> Yeah.

[00:15:07]>> But I do not understand the level of resilience and mental fortitude Yeah. that these individuals have.

[00:15:18]That they can get punched in the face over and over and over again and get back in there and turn it around.

[00:15:27]>> And when that doctor, I think it was between round two and three, none none of the fights went the full the full the full rounds. That was like I think that was a little bit of the underwhelming side of of the fight card. Cuz you kind of want you want people to just square off and go at it, you know? Or or you know, and I I think a lot of the earlier fights kind of happened faster in the the first few rounds and then and then this was you know, he just caught him with that uppercut and then it just changed the game and opened the door. And I texted you saying like you got to turn this on, you got to watch this. This is a great fight. But then I also said the thing with Ilya is like he's so deadly and dangerous that he could have his face swollen and he just if he has the energy and he can just turn it on for long enough, he could pin him. And he almost did a few times. He got him into some some scary moments, but you know, I can't pretend to be an expert.

[00:16:14]I'm still a new fan of UFC. But with all that said, what were we going to say? I want to add something because whenever you watch these fights after they were over, after these guys have beat themselves half to death, they respect each other. They often times hug each other.

[00:16:30]>> Yeah.

[00:16:30]>> And speak words of affirmation and encouragement to each other.

[00:16:35]And there there's a level of respect that seems to be gained by standing in that ring.

[00:16:44]And now I want to shift that to how the San Antonio Spurs handled losing to the New York Knicks.

[00:16:51]>> And maybe okay, so we're we're 15 16 minutes into this podcast. If you're listening you're going they're talking a lot about sports. Just >> Today's episode's going to be a lot about sports.

[00:17:01]>> we're layering. We're layering. One of those like, you know, layered fluffy cakes.

[00:17:05]>> But there are going to be applications to life here.

[00:17:07]>> There's going to be some applications.

[00:17:09]So if you're if you're if you're sitting here going this is so American.

[00:17:14]Such a sports conversation. Just get us Just hang on for a second. We're getting there.

[00:17:18]>> Yeah, because we're going to get to World Cup, so it's going to include you, too.

[00:17:21]>> Totally. [laughter] >> Even Australia, who did really, really well in the opening weekend.

[00:17:26]>> That's the fun thing about the World Cup is is You know, you watch these international games, but you kind of don't know cuz they're feeling each other out. You know, they're trying to They're making sure they qualify for the World Cup, and they're feeling each other out, these teams.

[00:17:38]>> Yeah.

[00:17:38]>> So, it's fun to watch US come out, and you go notoriously we've been okay.

[00:17:41]>> Yeah.

[00:17:42]>> We're average, you know, but we're getting there. And then we score four.

[00:17:46]>> Yeah, I think that I've been such a huge fan and so hopeful, I guess, for shifting to soccer first.

[00:17:51]>> no, no. Go back to San Antonio.

[00:17:53]Go back.

[00:17:53]>> I've been so hopeful for the World Cup with the US.

[00:17:57]>> Yeah.

[00:17:57]>> And they always let me down.

[00:17:59]So, this year I came with zero expectations. I basically said we're not any good. We're not going to make it out of the group stage, you know, but not believing that. I'm just saying that to myself because I don't want to have my heart broken again and again and again.

[00:18:14]And then when I watched that match, I was just exhilarated going this is this is what we could be like. This is this is what we should be like. But, I want to shift back over to the NBA.

[00:18:30]Um because I am one of those people that said the Knicks would win.

[00:18:35]>> Uh I said early on before the whole thing.

[00:18:37]>> kind of forced you to make predictions before each series in the playoffs, and you were right.

[00:18:42]>> Yep.

[00:18:42]>> Almost to the game.

[00:18:43]>> Yep. And I predicted that the Knicks would win the first two games in San Antonio, and they did.

[00:18:50]And I predicted that the Knicks would win games four and five, and they did.

[00:18:55]And and which was insane to me because I looked so wrong cuz I predicted the game they were down by 29 that they would win.

[00:19:04]And they came back and won that game.

[00:19:07]And there were there were things I saw.

[00:19:09]So, predictions are usually maybe for other people or just you're just guessing. For me, my predictions are based on on details, based on on nuances, based on percentages, things I see.

[00:19:22]And um or chemistry.

[00:19:25]Or attitudes.

[00:19:26]>> Yeah.

[00:19:27]>> And you could And so I I saw the momentum of the Knicks, you know, coming through the series with a, you know, more what around 11 wins in a row.

[00:19:35]Um I watched their team chemistry. I watched the fact that no one had to play great for them to win.

[00:19:42]And that's that's like a nuance differences that if you if someone has to play great every time for you to win, it's really hard.

[00:19:50]>> Mhm.

[00:19:50]>> And as much as I don't always love LeBron James, one of the great challenges for him, the reason I think he's lost six championships and won four, is it he has to play great for his teams to win.

[00:20:04]When you watch the Knicks, Brunson is great, but he doesn't have to play great for his team to win.

[00:20:12]Wemby is great. I'm going >> Can I interrupt you there before you get into Wemby? Like, what do you think that is? Just because you just like leadership differentials like differentials, right? Like, the difference in leadership with Brunson, Josh Hart, Mikal Bridges, is it just that they feel like they have Is it trust? Is it like what is it there that like Brunson cuz Brunson is great player. He is great. He's running with really strong players.

[00:20:36]>> Yeah.

[00:20:36]>> But they're not like super dependent on Brunson having a perfect game.

[00:20:40]>> No, and Kat is great, but he doesn't always have to play play great.

[00:20:43]>> No, but he turned it on for the finals.

[00:20:45]That's what I showed up.

[00:20:46]>> Hart is is is great, but he doesn't always have to play great. And and it's trust and chemistry.

[00:20:54]Because it's almost a difference between addition and multiplication.

[00:20:59]When you're adding up the individual greatness, that's addition.

[00:21:04]But when you're looking at the space between the players, the way they create spacing, the way they complement each other, the way they help each other move toward their best positions and opportunities, that's the multiplication.

[00:21:18]And so it what's what's hard to measure about Brunson, he's not he's not a plus player, he's a times player.

[00:21:27]He doesn't just add his own talent, he elevates the talent of everyone on that floor, which is really hard for people to measure. That's why they keep saying he's not a one A because the way we measure one A's are how many points can you score?

[00:21:44]>> Right.

[00:21:45]>> You know, how many blocks can you get?

[00:21:46]How many assists can you get? Like it's all about you.

[00:21:51]And so they look at Brunson they go, well, he's not a one A, he's too short, he's too slow, he's too everything.

[00:21:57]But that's like saying, well, Einstein wasn't that great at math, so he shouldn't be great at physics.

[00:22:05]See, I I think Brunson isn't great at math, he's great at physics.

[00:22:09]And Wemby >> I'm not sure where you're going with this.

[00:22:13]>> You're not sure where I'm going with this? What I'm saying is that bring it home.

[00:22:17]Some players make everyone else better.

[00:22:21]See, I don't think LeBron makes everyone else better. I think LeBron makes himself better and pulls a team with him.

[00:22:27]I think Brunson makes everyone else better even when he doesn't look great.

[00:22:32]>> There's a clip this morning. It was Is it Ho- Jose Al- Alvarado?

[00:22:37]>> Alvarado.

[00:22:38]>> Alvarado.

[00:22:38]>> Alvarado.

[00:22:39]>> That guy's funny. He needs a He [laughter] All like the pod I started following them on like social so I could just like get all of the things and like there's clip after clip. I mean, he's so Puerto Rican.

[00:22:50]>> Yeah.

[00:22:50]>> But who was it? It was Carmelo Anthony.

[00:22:52]There's two things. Is it okay I keep interrupting you? I'm sorry.

[00:22:54]>> No, no, no.

[00:22:55]>> But this is like >> me. It's bringing up like fun things.

[00:22:58]>> But it was Carmelo Anthony and they're asking him about about Jose Alvarado Alvarado and he goes, it's a great day to be Puerto Rican." He goes, "You got Bad Bunny in the Super Bowl, you got >> [laughter] >> Alvarado in the in the finals." And he's just like, "That man he goes, that man just lives life." Like and and I just think and there was a clip with Brunson and Alvarado coming up to Brunson and he was I think it was in the playoff series or maybe it was when he first joined the team, I'm not sure. That's the tough thing with like the clips, they're like non-linear.

[00:23:24]And he goes, "How you know, he's like coming over to Brunson." Brunson's miked up and he goes, "How do you like to receive the ball? Like I know you just I know it's like whatever you'll just do what what you do, but how do you prefer it so I can make sure I match that."

[00:23:34]>> That's right.

[00:23:35]>> trying to be a good backup to Brunson and a good teammate.

[00:23:39]Brunson goes, "I just I I just need you I need you to play with life." Like he just says something like so maybe zoomed out and he goes, "You're going to see you're going to see. I just need you to like just to play." And it it kind of gives like a very nonchalant answer but with like in this intensity of like I want you to just play and then it's going to open up.

[00:23:57]>> Yeah.

[00:23:57]>> And I just thought it was cool. Like it was like, "Okay, I'm I'm going to help you unlock the best version of you. Once you get out there you're going to see."

[00:24:03]>> Yeah.

[00:24:04]>> That's how I heard it. And I felt like that clip accurately describes kind of bottles up what you just described.

[00:24:10]>> Yeah. And when you look at the flip side, look at the Spurs, I I think objectively the Spurs had more talent than the Knicks.

[00:24:22]Like if you're just looking at each individual, they're going to have a better career in terms of their own statistics.

[00:24:30]Uh Wemby is going to have a historic career unless he gets injured.

[00:24:34]>> Yeah.

[00:24:35]>> Um who's the rookie?

[00:24:37]Harper Harper?

[00:24:38]>> Yeah, Keldon Johnson.

[00:24:39]>> I Keldon I think Harper is the best player on the team.

[00:24:45]>> He's phenomenal.

[00:24:45]>> I think he's better than Wemby.

[00:24:48]He's just not 7 and 1/2 ft tall.

[00:24:51]>> I don't know if he's better than Wemby, but I think he's he's probably the I think he might be the second best player on that team. It's hard to compete with this with 7-footer that can shoot threes from the logo like it's a jump shot.

[00:25:01]>> Yeah, but the difference is going to be who they are in the fourth quarter.

[00:25:05]>> That's very true.

[00:25:06]>> And I think Harper was already more ready for the fourth quarter than who the uh Spurs were playing.

[00:25:13]>> Well, make your point about the Spurs. I want I want you to land >> Yeah. Yeah, so just on a team-wise on team level, I didn't think the Spurs could elevate.

[00:25:21]>> Mhm.

[00:25:22]>> See, I thought I knew the Knicks could elevate.

[00:25:25]>> What showed you that?

[00:25:26]>> Because Wembanyama was already playing as good as he could play. He could only play worse.

[00:25:30]>> Yeah.

[00:25:30]>> That's why that's why I never get nervous in the first half when you're down by 16 or 29.

[00:25:36]And I and I I remember looking at you and I said, "Hey, they're shooting 70%."

[00:25:38]No, I looked at you. Remember I said, "Hey, they're shooting 70%."

[00:25:42]Um percentages will always come back.

[00:25:44]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:25:44]>> And so I told you I said, "They're shooting 70 right now, but they average 39. They're going to end up shooting 15 to 20 22% later."

[00:25:51]>> That was game four, right?

[00:25:52]>> Yeah. And it ends up happening. And what And psychologically what happens in players' minds is "I'm on fire."

[00:26:01]>> [laughter] >> You know, and I'm shooting we're shooting 70%, so they just keep shooting. They don't realize the percentages are going to come back to haunt them. If they keep shooting threes, they're going to go 0 for 8, which is what they did.

[00:26:13]And what they should have done is said, "Okay, we have basically tapped the gold mine of three-pointers. Yeah. We're up by 29. We just need to go into the paint for the rest of the game and assume we're going to miss everything. We're going to go for dunks and layups." And they would have never lost the game.

[00:26:28]There's something interesting about a um a about watching a sports team like that when they assume they're going to be better than they've ever been the entire way.

[00:26:43]The Knicks were the opposite. They couldn't have been any worse.

[00:26:46]>> Yeah.

[00:26:46]>> [laughter] >> I feel very torn about the performance.

[00:26:50]>> Yeah, and and so you look at the Knicks and you go ironically you think, "Oh, if they kept playing the Spurs would win." I said, "No, actually, if they played five more times, I think the Knicks might end up winning them all."

[00:27:04]Because the Knicks never played to their full potential.

[00:27:08]>> No, they played strong in the first two games.

[00:27:10]>> Yeah.

[00:27:11]>> But they were still down every first quarter.

[00:27:14]>> and by double figures every time.

[00:27:15]>> Yeah, yeah.

[00:27:15]>> And the Spurs played to their full potential and lost four out of five times. So their ceiling was actually lower than the Knicks and I think that's what people couldn't see. But what I really want to talk about was attitude.

[00:27:28]>> And how you lose.

[00:27:29]>> Yeah, you could you could see even from how Wembanyama was reacting uh the way he chose to become more and more of a villain uh the the way he chose to press the lines of technical fouls.

[00:27:46]When you're his size, when you're at his level of talent, he should he should have been rising above that. For me, the moment he did this, the moment he put his head his uh his finger by his head and he said, "I'm in your head."

[00:27:59]>> Yeah.

[00:27:59]>> The series was over.

[00:28:02]>> He did that Is that when he got knocked down by Robinson?

[00:28:04]>> Yeah, that was That's when he was all the way taunting Robinson. Robinson just couldn't take anymore. Knocked him down and he was "I'm in your head." I thought "Oh, it's over. It's over." And it was over for me because Wembanyama was mocking a backup player.

[00:28:21]>> Is that the game where Kat got the two fouls in the first minute so they had to play the play Robinson super early and he was gassed and they played third stringer?

[00:28:28]>> played all 12 players.

[00:28:30]>> Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:28:30]>> [laughter] >> So yeah, yeah, you It was such a That's a such a good distinction.

[00:28:34]>> Yeah, because if you begin to mock someone who's not as gifted or talented as you, you have now psychologically lowered yourself to their level of performance.

[00:28:50]And it what you watch with Brunson is he just didn't engage in those games.

[00:28:58]Cuz I would have still remembered the day that Wemby threw my 60-point basketball into the stands and laughed later that he wouldn't wasn't going to pay the fine. Like if I was Brunson, I might have been bringing a little bit into the game.

[00:29:10]But Brunson doesn't seem to bring any of that into the game with him.

[00:29:16]He just focuses on doing the job.

[00:29:22]And doing it to the best of his ability.

[00:29:25]And Wemby was trying to play mind games thinking that somehow he's going to win those mind games, which by the way is why I think they were such bad losers.

[00:29:32]They didn't stay to thank any to compliment anyone. They didn't congratulate anyone. They never gave the the Knicks any credit for being the better team.

[00:29:43]How in the world can you say you're the better team when you lost four out of five games and you never won a single game at home?

[00:29:54]A- Any level of humility would have said um we have a lot of work to do. The Knicks were clearly better than us.

[00:30:03]The The Knicks didn't even need six games or seven games. They beat you in five and you're still saying you're the better team.

[00:30:12]They're going to have to figure out between now and next year how to change the mental structure of that team.

[00:30:22]Their problem isn't talent. Their problem isn't skill. Their problem isn't ability. Their problem is that they have a lack of mental strength.

[00:30:33]They Their energy went in the wrong direction. They need They need a mind shift.

[00:30:38]>> Interesting. No, I I fully agree. And mean, I think we were talking about it a little bit this morning at coffee before this and yeah, it's really interesting to me because I really did not like Wemby this entire playoff run. I I I I think Harper's going to be phenomenal. I think you're right. He might be one of the best players in the league in the next couple years. You know, he's another shy another Shay. He could he could have that level of influence, I think. He's so smooth. And you have Kessel, you have these guys that are just so special and so unique. They're definitely It felt like they were deeper. Felt like they didn't have the groundedness Sorry.

[00:31:14]I felt like they didn't have the groundedness without Pop.

[00:31:17]>> Mhm.

[00:31:17]>> You know, like the kind of maturity of Duncan and and Robinson. Like I feel like the Spurs always had this like one or two anchors that really kept the team humble, kept them quiet, kept them focused.

[00:31:28]Uh kept them disciplined and just felt like this team didn't have that. But you know, with all that said I look at it and go it's it's it's a game. It's still a game. Like it's still it's a game. You get to be paid a ton of money to play.

[00:31:41]And I feel like it's how do you manage that in a healthy way?

[00:31:45]I think Wemby so obviously wants to be the villain.

[00:31:48]And it almost feels comical to some degree, you know, when he when he when he finished that presser at the end of the game and said, "Talk to you guys never." And throws the mic down.

[00:31:57]>> I'm going, "Are you 12?"

[00:31:58]>> I It It felt like it, you know? And it it is interesting. So just a healthy reminder to like lose well.

[00:32:05]>> Yeah, also >> you lose well? How do you end well? You know, I I think it's like so much of this is on us, I think as people, to just slow things down at times.

[00:32:15]>> Yeah, that Buddhist retreat center did not help.

[00:32:17]>> It did I thought I felt so pick me. Felt so like showboat like to just go, "I'm going to shave my head and go be a Shaolin monk for a day."

[00:32:26]>> And even at the end of the when he was taking those deep breaths and focusing on the free throws it felt like he was trying to show how he centered himself and then he missed them both.

[00:32:35]>> I loved it. I loved it. I loved it.

[00:32:38]>> And it's it's the difference between being fully present and carrying a persona.

[00:32:47]And which by the way I been writing a book on.

[00:32:51]>> [laughter] >> With all that said, he's 22 and he's 7 ft and he's been around for a long time.

[00:32:55]But do you think he's going to Do you think he's quitting?

[00:32:59]Do you Do you think this see you never is I'm going to go back to Europe and I'm not going to come back here and I'm done with with the US, I'm done with the Spurs?

[00:33:04]>> No, I I think that was an impetuous moment of a 22-year-old.

[00:33:09]>> He's having a moment.

[00:33:09]>> He's just having a moment.

[00:33:12]But he um Yeah, see you never. What does that mean? You're You're in San Antonio.

[00:33:17]>> He said [laughter] >> I could understand it if he was in New York saying I'm never coming back to New York.

[00:33:23]>> Yeah, see you never. I'll see you literally in a couple months when we start back up the training.

[00:33:27]>> Yeah, it's like I know, see you in three.

[00:33:28]>> [laughter] >> That's right.

[00:33:30]Okay, so Okay.

[00:33:33]>> I just think that there applications here.

[00:33:35]Um be a good loser. Celebrate the other person when you get beat.

[00:33:41]>> Yeah.

[00:33:41]>> And um you know, we were we had we did a recent um podcast with Charlie Lou.

[00:33:47]And our friend we talked about AI and I found out he was >> A couple weeks ago on this podcast. And Charlie Lou is one of the most lovely human beings.

[00:33:55]>> He is. He's lovely and brilliant and >> And he looks like he's straight out of a Guy Ritchie Netflix series.

[00:33:59]>> Yeah, absolutely.

[00:34:01]>> or Movieland or you know, one of those lands.

[00:34:04]>> But when I found out, you know, he he was a chess champion at 13 when we're not on the podcast, like, Charlie, I would love to start playing chess with you again and I didn't know you played and he goes, oh yeah and and I said, hey, you'll kill me.

[00:34:19]But if you'll hang in there with me, I'll get better and better and I'll really give you some competition, but it's going to take me a little while.

[00:34:24]You'll destroy me for a while.

[00:34:26]>> If you haven't listened to that episode, you need to go back. It's it's artificial intelligence destroyer of worlds.

[00:34:31]>> [laughter] >> He's handsome uh handsome scruffy Scottish man with a great accent. It's some listening material for you.

[00:34:39]>> Yeah, and to me you have to find the joy of losing to someone better than you because it means you you have room for growth.

[00:34:52]And there's always been I've always had that kind of dynamic where I really do like being the underdog. You and I have talked a lot about that.

[00:34:59]And um I love being the underdog because it gives me permission to be highly competitive.

[00:35:08]Cuz I don't have that natural gene that some people have of crush the opponent even if he's weaker than you.

[00:35:14]>> Yeah.

[00:35:15]>> Like if I if I sense it the opponent isn't as good or is weaker, I pull back.

[00:35:20]I play at a lower level.

[00:35:22]I need opponents that are clearly better than me.

[00:35:25]I I so I like being in a room with people who are more talented than me. I like being in a room with people who are more intelligent than me. I like being in the people who are more successful than me cuz then then I feel free to be aspirational and competitive cuz they're not going to be intimidated by me.

[00:35:41]And and I think that the Spurs should actually celebrate the fact that when they were in the finals, they they did better than every other team except for one.

[00:35:50]They're young. They're way ahead of schedule. Nobody thought they'd be there that soon.

[00:35:55]They beat the Thunder which probably for them was their championship which was a huge obstacle to overcome.

[00:36:01]>> I mean, do you feel like they celebrated too early there?

[00:36:03]>> They did. They were you kind of felt the series was over then.

[00:36:09]>> We talked about that.

[00:36:10]>> The only reason I bring it up cuz I think that was a I called you after that one. I think you sent me a clip and I was like, "Did you see that?" And I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "It felt weirdly emotional, like too emotional."

[00:36:20]>> Mhm.

[00:36:21]>> You know, and then we both said like it's better to be too emotional about something and make it matter than it not mattering at all and being like, "Oh yeah, it's just the Western Conference Finals." Like, the NBA sports competitiveness, the world You you want to win. You want to do well. You want to succeed. So, I do I did appreciate it, but it felt like it meant too much.

[00:36:39]>> Yeah, and that was the thing is um it was the most important accomplishment for Wemby.

[00:36:47]And that's okay. Remember I told you, yes, he's super emotional, but I think it's okay. He's 22.

[00:36:52]This was almost an insurmountable opponent.

[00:36:57]Um they were crushed before by them, you know, and and so I felt it was justified.

[00:37:03]But but it was it was definitely premature.

[00:37:07]And you kind of knew he wasn't going to bring the same emotional energy uh to the Finals.

[00:37:13]But I also think he had a sense of entitlement. I think the reason he cried there was he believed that win guaranteed them the championship.

[00:37:24]He didn't really believe the Knicks would be an obstacle.

[00:37:30]And what I saw was a very different mindset. With the Spurs it felt like just the crown is ours. We're just coming to get it.

[00:37:42]And with the Knicks it felt like nothing belongs to us unless we go and take it.

[00:37:48]Very different mental structures.

[00:37:51]>> You're you know, we're talking a lot about underdogs and how to lose well and and and but I think there's something here about never underestimating your opponent or the person across from you.

[00:38:02]>> Yeah.

[00:38:02]>> And it felt like, you know, we we called it out pretty early when Wemby got too excited. I was like, "I don't think Brunson's over there thinking he has us in the bag. I think he's going to look at tape, he'll look at film, he'll trust who we are, get ready for the moment, be prepared, show up and and be disciplined." And if anything being like, "Our legs are cold because we had you know they went I think back-to-back sweeps or pretty quick series.

[00:38:25]>> Yeah, pretty much, yeah.

[00:38:26]>> So then it was just a lot of time off in between each thing. As you like that can be that can almost work against you at times.

[00:38:31]>> Yeah.

[00:38:31]>> You know. Which is I think why they were so cold in the first quarter.

[00:38:34]>> Yeah.

[00:38:34]>> Which is is exactly what I told you for game one. I said the Spurs will win the first quarter. They're going to come out hot and strong.

[00:38:41]Knicks are going to be cold and out of rhythm. And then the Spurs are going to get tired by the second half and the Knicks are going to come back and win.

[00:38:49]And and so some of those things are fairly predictable in the scenario.

[00:38:54]And but I think if me as just a fan knows that, is it Mitch Johnson?

[00:39:02]>> Yeah.

[00:39:02]>> The coach of the Spurs he should have been more aware of that.

[00:39:07]He should have been more aware of the fact that his team wasn't going to have the same energy level that the Knicks were going to have in the second half. So I I think some of what cost them the series was Mike Brown just out coached him.

[00:39:23]Just simply out coached him. He he took the pieces he had and he put together the exact combination to win that series in a very powerful way.

[00:39:33]>> Oh, sorry.

[00:39:34]>> No.

[00:39:34]>> Yeah. No, very powerful. He's interesting. He's kind of an anomaly to me cuz he he wins and then he gets fired. He wins and he gets fired.

[00:39:40]>> Yeah, I guess he'll be fired next year.

[00:39:41]>> Yeah, he made it to the finals with Cleveland, got fired the next year.

[00:39:44]>> Yeah. He won coach of the year twice and got fired right after both times.

[00:39:47]>> Like literally like you sent me I think an article that was it was all of his accomplishments and then the the timeline of how he got fired right the year after the season afterwards and it was always interesting. Sports are sports. It's so it's it's fascinating, but I I think sports are such a reflection of life sometimes. So for us it's it's fun to like dialogue and have these conversations around being competitive with insights you can pull out from it and and all the things, but you know, we're competitive people.

[00:40:11]We we we love competition. We're we we we care about it a lot, but I mean I think it's it's just an interesting time. You talk a lot about being an underdog. You talk a lot about this idea of of of competition, but you know, life's been life's been filled with those moments, I feel like.

[00:40:28]And so, it's how to navigate, you know, when do you choose to just support the guy who's winning?

[00:40:35]You were talking about this like bandwagoning, this idea of being a bandwagon fan. And I always think it's it's odd when you feel like you have to say like I'm a bandwagoner or like, "Hey, I'm not a true fan." Like, what is a true fan? And I was listening to this pod a couple weeks ago, or maybe it was a clip, and these guys debating how many years you had to live in New York City to be a true New Yorker. Or could you ever be a true New Yorker if you're not born in New York City?

[00:41:02]And I just I find that just funny. Cuz I'm just like, who who made who told you you were the guy who decides?

[00:41:10]>> [laughter] >> But it was like these four New Yorkers who were I think two of them were transplants, but they've been there their whole life. And he goes, "But you have a guy who's lived here for 30 years, but he moved here at 11. Like, he's a New Yorker. He grew up here. And you have a guy who lived here for 30 years, but he moved here at 30. Is he a New Yorker?" And so, and I look at that and like, I talked to you about this. I always just find it odd that we that as humans we feel the need to like identify with things, with subcultures, with cultures, with identity, with citizenship. You know, it's something that's so important and it's What What are you laughing about?

[00:41:39]>> No.

[00:41:40]>> What do you mean?

[00:41:41]>> I just think about, you know, this um what what qualifies you to be a New Yorker.

[00:41:46]Uh my brother and I, you know, we're probably 4 5 years old and we were living in Queens.

[00:41:51]>> Yeah.

[00:41:52]>> And then um we moved to Miami. And I don't know why, but we were in junior high and we're looking at this newspaper article on occupations across America and what they pay.

[00:42:04]>> Oh goodness, I know this story.

[00:42:05]>> And me and my brother decided we were going to move to New York and become garbage men because it was paying like six figures. And this is in you know this pays a lot. It was like 1970 or something like that 1972 and we told my mom.

[00:42:22]>> [laughter] >> Mom we know exactly what we want to do.

[00:42:25]We're going to go together me and Alex we're going to go to New York we're going to become garbage men. So do you qualify as a New Yorker if your dream >> [laughter] >> if your aspiration for the future was to become a New York garbage man.

[00:42:41]>> Yeah no I mean it's so funny it's so funny to say that because I I I I mean I think one of the most electric things about sports is how it brings people together even like World Cup it just it brings all these nations and kind of just mixes everybody up into this like hot melting pot of community and culture integration and like learning from each other and kind of this respect and I it was so cool to see people on the news and like this little town in Kansas being like I'm so excited that the Algerians [snorts] are here >> [laughter] >> making our little town their base camp and they're like this is cool it's special it's special to get to host things like this.

[00:43:17]>> So what do you think of I was watching the Brazil Morocco game okay a match it was an incredible match and Brazil didn't look great to be honest with you.

[00:43:25]>> I don't know if it was an incredible match but it was an interesting one.

[00:43:28]>> Yeah Morocco looked great Brazil looked um not as skilled as I've seen them in the past so it they tied one one but at the end of the match there wasn't one single player on the Morocco team that was born in Morocco.

[00:43:45]>> I was going to ask you the same question.

[00:43:47]>> So how do you feel about that?

[00:43:48]>> Citizenship how do I feel about that? I don't know I was going to ask you this cuz we were talking about this morning we were looking at the US men's national team and one of our our best players I don't know his name I don't know how to say his name. He's not prolific um >> The guy born in >> Bologan Bologan He's technically where was he born? He was >> He's here but British.

[00:44:09]>> Yeah. [snorts] Okay, so wait, hold on.

[00:44:11]He committed to representing US men's national over England and Nigeria.

[00:44:15]He scored two goals in the 4-1 group stage against Paraguay. Yeah, so where was he born? He's born in the US, but then he quickly, I believe, moved with his family to England and grew up in that system.

[00:44:29]>> But he's also Nigerian.

[00:44:30]>> So he commits to the US men's national team. So there's a bunch of them. So it's not He's not the only one. We were talking about him and I was like asking about the ethics of, you know, Monaco had I think there's only one player who actually >> born >> Not Monaco, Morocco.

[00:44:44]>> Morocco.

[00:44:44]>> One player that was born in Morocco.

[00:44:46]>> Right. So it'd be the opposite. Like our our guy was born in the US, raised in England, and has a Nigerian heritage.

[00:44:54]So our guy is an American.

[00:44:56]>> Right, [laughter] right. So let me finish. But yeah, so with Morocco, you know, they brought it up and I'm like, okay, so what are what's the ethics here because obviously it's international play. You want to start scouting and finding these players around the world.

[00:45:07]So I do see the benefit of that. I see like the health in that. Finding these little countries that are like that are so important in the world, but you know, families are looking to migrate to have, you know, to better themselves and to to better for the next generation. So I understand that side of it, too. Right?

[00:45:24]So what do you do there when there's only one guy who was born in in in Morocco? It doesn't feel like a very Moroccan team. Most of the guys were born, I think, in in Belgium Belgium or they were born in Germany, and Netherlands. You know, we were hanging with a a guy from the Netherlands watching that game and >> [laughter] >> and he was he was like telling us about the team. He was like, "Yeah, most of them are from the Netherlands, not actually from Morocco."

[00:45:48]And so I don't care.

[00:45:50]>> Yeah.

[00:45:50]>> I'm just talking about it as like a subject matter.

[00:45:52]>> Mhm.

[00:45:54]>> To keep it pure, like should you be from that country? When should you have to commit?

[00:46:00]Should you have to live in that country?

[00:46:02]Like it doesn't make sense. You're also pro players. You're going to get traded all over the world. So that's part of it, too.

[00:46:07]>> I guess in my purity to the World Cup would say at the very least you should be born in that country or you should be naturalized into that country at some point, all right?

[00:46:23]>> Okay.

[00:46:24]>> So I I I would get it if let's say someone came to the United States from Nigeria when they're 10 years old and then they became an American citizen that they would want to play for the United States.

[00:46:35]Or that they might want to go back and play for Nigeria. So I I can see that.

[00:46:38]And so I'm not really bothered by it. It just >> It doesn't matter to me from like an immigration standpoint at all. But mostly from like the We're talking about like more like the purity >> of the game that is when every player suddenly is from another country, not from >> from the country they're representing.

[00:46:57]>> Yeah. Then I start going, "Wow, it feels like it's gone too far the other way." When it's the exception, not the rule, I don't have a problem.

[00:47:04]When it's the rule, not the exception, it it it it does raise some questions for me in the long run.

[00:47:11]But >> But I mean, our team, I think we have a couple guys from Mexico, couple guys from England that have chosen to represent the US. So we're benefit benefiting from it greatly because, you know, the Mexican just academy program is just going to be better than ours. You know, maybe it's better maybe we're better now, but I'm I'm pretty sure you play you come up in the Mexican like system, you're going to be a great player.

[00:47:33]>> Yeah.

[00:47:34]>> You coming up in the the British, you know, EPL league system, you're going to be a great player. You Belgium, Germany, like Netherlands, they just have stronger academies than we do. You're training at 12. Like you'll leave your family at 12. And and I you know, I'm going to go become a professional. You know, you're doing school and then you're playing football soccer.

[00:47:53]>> Yeah. I I I do think there has to be some There doesn't have to be I would like to believe you're playing for the country that is your heart country.

[00:48:02]>> Okay.

[00:48:03]>> Like it's the country that you feel honored to represent. You're not just going there because that's where you get the better chance to play.

[00:48:09]>> Okay.

[00:48:10]>> You know, so I I'm hoping it doesn't take on that level of just utilitarianism.

[00:48:15]Um well, I mean that's that I think that's a bit of the Sorry, did I cut you off?

[00:48:18]>> No, that the bit of the the debate controversy with with Balogun is that you know, they're saying he you know, you'd have to wait forever to maybe never get a call up in England. Yeah.

[00:48:28]Cuz even England's squad they didn't call up Cole Palmer, they didn't call up some of these legends that are like these young legends that are super talents in in the nation because they're trying to put together more of a less of a celebrity team and more of, you know, a team that can win.

[00:48:42]>> Yeah.

[00:48:42]>> They're going with a different a different approach and I don't know if they can do it. It'll time will tell.

[00:48:46]But, you know, for us we benefited from it greatly because he comes to the US he's you know, he's going to score two goals in our first game and he's a legend. He he's he's going to make a name for himself here.

[00:48:57]>> Yeah.

[00:48:57]>> You know.

[00:48:57]>> And I you know, I have a friend named Jim Niad who is an American but his family's from El Salvador and he is an uh decathlon athlete. So, he actually went to El Salvador and qualified for the Olympics um representing El Salvador.

[00:49:13]>> Oh, cool.

[00:49:13]>> And so, he got to go to Olympics I think once or twice actually.

[00:49:17]And I if I remember correctly, he came like 17th in the world in decathlon or something like that representing El Salvador. So, if the country you're in as your first choice doesn't need you, you can't qualify for them, but you have a heritage in another country and they do need you, I'm totally good with that.

[00:49:38]>> Okay.

[00:49:39]>> I think that just makes perfect sense to me. If they, you know, if the US doesn't want you to play on their soccer team, but you were born in another country whether it's Nigeria or Qatar or wherever, go play on that team. You have a chance to in the tournament.

[00:49:54]>> Do you think it's going to be harder in the future as just more immigration happens and the world just keeps like layering and layering and intermarrying and like in the coolest way and the most interesting way, but as like human cultures do, we're just we're we're a melting pot now.

[00:50:07]>> Yeah.

[00:50:07]>> You know, and and that's a really unique thing.

[00:50:10]>> Mhm.

[00:50:10]>> I think it's special, but then it kind of does it take away from national pride?

[00:50:15]Maybe it's maybe it breaks down borders in a way that >> Mhm.

[00:50:19]>> is a healthy thing. You know, where it's you know, it's it's nice that the news is 100% what's going on in Iran or Ukraine and not to like ignore the atrocities that are happening around the world in war, but it just feels nice that there's like this breath of fresh air. Like you know, World Cup brings us together. The The Olympics brings us together. When when when big things happen, like this exciting, you know.

[00:50:41]>> Yeah.

[00:50:41]>> There there are certain nations that seem to have like a greater cultural identity, at least when it comes to soccer. Like I can't imagine Brazil ever letting someone on their squad that isn't like pure Brazilian.

[00:50:53]>> I know, that goalkeeper looked like he was from Germany.

[00:50:55]>> They have a lot of Germans in Brazil.

[00:50:57]>> [laughter] >> It was funny like the the Brazilians it was like 5'8 5'8 5'8 goalkeeper like 6'5 and >> Yeah, yeah, he did. He looked he looked Nordic.

[00:51:08]>> Yeah, yeah, [laughter] yeah.

[00:51:09]>> Or but Mexico seems to have a very strong like Mexican culture and >> Mexico Mexicans are just they're so you know, it's it's it's it's a big deal.

[00:51:18]>> Yeah, which is so interesting because there's some recent studies on Mexico that Mexico is actually so ethnically diverse that there is no singular Mexican ethnicity.

[00:51:28]>> Interesting.

[00:51:29]>> And so the way we look at Mexico from the outside is we think of them as one homogeneous Mexican culture, but Mexico is as diverse a nation ethnically as any nation you could imagine.

[00:51:42]And it's so sometimes I I think our views of nations are very singular.

[00:51:45]Brazil is incredibly diverse.

[00:51:48]Yeah, and uh probably more diverse than Argentina. And Argentina is Italy moved to South America.

[00:51:55]>> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know, and so there's an interesting kind of dynamic there.

[00:51:59]But I just love the World Cup. I um I was happy to see Australia do so well against Turkey because they're in the same group as the US.

[00:52:06]>> Yeah.

[00:52:07]>> And you know, I I I I do love watching nations compete in a positive, healthy um way, and I think it's really good for the world.

[00:52:16]I I I really really really do. And I'm not even sure if I'm a person that believes in sports sanctions.

[00:52:23]Like I I know Russia is sanctioned from everything, you know, from tennis, from And And I'm like, "Why are you punishing those athletes because of their governments?"

[00:52:33]You know, and they can't represent their nation as if somehow representing their nation is is offensive or wrong.

[00:52:41]When I'm like, "That athlete, whether you put their nation up there or not, is still from that nation."

[00:52:48]>> It's also so skewed, and it feels a little corrupt. And this is like maybe this is a a critique on our own government, or maybe the way we move.

[00:52:55]But Iran is still playing the World Cup, but Russia can't.

[00:53:00]It makes no sense.

[00:53:01]>> No, it doesn't.

[00:53:02]>> no sense.

[00:53:03]>> Yeah.

[00:53:04]>> And I'm not like a I'm not like saying like, you know, I'm a pro-Russia person.

[00:53:08]I'm just going like it is just It just feels It feels similar to the way the San Antonio Spurs New York Knicks series was reffed.

[00:53:17]>> [laughter] >> It was skewed on one side.

[00:53:19]>> It was clearly skewed on one side. They clearly didn't call two techs on Wemby that they should have.

[00:53:24]I may be wrong.

[00:53:25]>> what we're talking about. We're talking about the the nations.

[00:53:27]>> But um I may be wrong. You can fact-check me, but I think um the US boycotted 1976 Olympics under President Jimmy Carter.

[00:53:34]>> Okay.

[00:53:35]>> And because it was in Russia, I think it was in Moscow.

[00:53:38]Um And I I wasn't for that then.

[00:53:43]I I felt using the Olympics to make a political statement was unfair to our athletes who trained all their lives.

[00:53:50]And remember, Olympic athletes do not have a big window.

[00:53:54]>> No.

[00:53:54]>> Some of them have that one four-year window.

[00:53:57]And when you boycott an Olympic situation like that to make a political global statement, one, it it defeats the whole purpose.

[00:54:08]The The Olympics and the World Cup, these are events that are supposed to bring nations together to help us find some point of commonality and connection.

[00:54:17]And then when you use them in the political arena, I think you've you've lost the narrative of why this is so important. And and I believe that Russia then boycotted, was it the 1980 Olympics or whatever? Um And and I'm going those athletes are not the government.

[00:54:39]>> I This is okay, this let's wrap this up after this. But cuz I I want to end here, I think. But >> Mhm.

[00:54:46]>> it brings us to a larger conversation.

[00:54:47]Like, who decides war?

[00:54:51]Who decides it?

[00:54:52]Cuz I think if you ask the everyday person, most people would say, "I don't want it. I don't want war. I don't want to fund it. I don't want to pay taxes to fund it. I don't want to keep the I don't I don't need I don't even know if people would respond with we have to keep the world safe. I don't know if that's our responsibility. I also don't think it's necessarily the intention of our forefathers. I don't know if we need need to credit them or or to even like, you know, why do we have to follow in that that same footstep?"

[00:55:20]>> One of the things that for me, I think it's important to remember is that nations do not decide war.

[00:55:28]Governments decide war.

[00:55:31]So, when people say something like, you know, "America's at war with, you know, Iraq or whatever, Iran or um the or Ukraine at war with Russia. It's It's actually not. It's two governments at war with each other and people dominantly becoming victims of the choices governments are making.

[00:55:56]And I I genuinely don't think the majority of the Russian people are at war with Ukraine.

[00:56:04]I don't think the majority of the Ukraine people are at war with the Russian people. I think what ends up happening is you have governments who go to war with each other and drag all the citizens into it.

[00:56:15]I just don't think the person in Iowa is at war right now in the Middle East.

[00:56:21]And but our government, you know, is in in an deployment. I guess it's not technically a war.

[00:56:27]And so I think sometimes we need to realize that most human beings are actually not against each other.

[00:56:33]It's governments and political systems that actually can't find a way to resolve issues in the world.

[00:56:40]And then all of us are affected and impacted by it.

[00:56:44]And that's just I think the reality of life.

[00:56:48]But I I'm not at war with anyone.

[00:56:51]But I recognize that um sometimes war is unavoidable because of the political and governmental conditions in the world that presently exist.

[00:57:06]>> Well, I enjoyed this conversation.

[00:57:07]>> Yeah, this is fun.

[00:57:08]>> I'll see you next episode.

[00:57:09]>> All right.