How to Get Ahead of 99% of Founders — The information gap that costs you millions

[00:00:00]I want you to share one key thing about building in Nigeria.

[00:00:04]>> I would say you need relationships. The fancy word is is social capital. As someone who pivoted from B2C to B2B and you started facing companies, corporates, relationships is so key to anything and everything you want to build in Nigeria.

[00:00:20]>> And how did you do it? How do you build relationships? Preston Eiday. As a co-founder of Steers, he's building one of the continent's most trusted data and intelligent platforms, giving businesses, governments, and investors the insights they need to make better decisions.

[00:00:34]>> You've said before that data is a form of power. But in Africa, where history is often undocumented, how do you think about data as both a truthtelling tool and a battleground for influence?

[00:00:44]>> It's like knowledge is power. It can help you build leverage where you don't have leverage. And sometimes it can just make you look really smart. When you have a recording, it's proof. It's evidence. You can't argue.

[00:00:56]>> So Preston, Nigeria didn't rebase its GDP for over two decades. Why do you think data has been so neglected and how does stairs go about solving that problem?

[00:01:04]>> So you reverse Japa. Tell us more about that shift and then pivot away from being a lawyer into building stairs.

[00:01:15]>> Quick one before we jump into the Afropolitan podcast. I have a problem.

[00:01:19]So, my issue is that 72% of you are not subscribed to the Afropolitan podcast.

[00:01:24]So, I need you to click the subscribe button so you can join the Afropolitan family. Now, we can jump back to it.

[00:01:31]Preston, uh, so someone may click this video and they may be listening to this podcast while they are driving on their way to work. Maybe they just got up in the morning. It's part of their morning routine. Maybe they're listening to our podcast in the gym. And I want you to share one key thing about building in Nigeria.

[00:01:56]>> Well, one key thing um I would say you need relationships, >> right? You know, the fancy word is is social capital. I think when you're, you know, analyzing you say social capital, but it's relationships. you know as as someone who pivoted from B toC to B2B and you know started facing companies corporate relationship that is so key to anything and everything you want to build in in Nigeria that's it 100%.

[00:02:24]>> And how did you do it? How do you build relationships?

[00:02:27]>> I wonder if I have done it to be honest sometimes but um I think you just start with the with the network you have whatever sort of organic natural relationships you you have. For example, when I when I moved to Nigeria, um I just knew I didn't know many people in the tech ecosystem, but I knew E because we went to high school together. I was very lucky in terms of, you know, super connector to know him, right? And I just dug deep. I was like, E, we need to meet up. You need to introduce me, you know, and that kept building and building. But one other interesting thing I did was um I used to be a regular at um Eric Kaiser >> every Saturday 10:00 a.m. I I was just putting setting up breakfast and brunch with anybody who who would accept my you know sort of message. I just drop someone a message on Twitter like hey I'm Preston you know working on stairs new to I just moved back and want to know about Lagos and your experience and I would just brunch every Saturday 10:00 a.m. I was talking to everyone. So those things obviously build up over time and you start working and you know you do stuff for customers and it builds from there. But foundations were were just like few people and then build from there.

[00:03:34]>> You know it's interesting you speak about Twitter uh because Twitter has connected a lot of people. I know technically it connected me in Etch >> right technically. All right. That's a story for another day. Uh but did any of those Twitter connections turn into people that you're building?

[00:03:50]>> What's that saying you always say babes?

[00:03:52]longterm playing long-term games with long-term people.

[00:03:56]>> Um, they definitely did. They definitely did, I would say. So, for instance, um, FA, he was then at, um, at Google, I recall. Yes. And, you know, he used to he he he was always tweeting, let me put it that way. And, you know, I I like to message people who were active cuz I felt it felt like they're more open, right? And I think I just messaged him, set up like a dinner or something, and he showed up. And from there you know we build relationship but yeah I would say a couple of people none of my co-founders because we all knew each other before we moved to Nigeria but there was a period even for stairs again when we just launched co we were like active on Twitter like active like every day it was like boom boom boom and I remember when um well during during like nars and there was yeah people were obviously using Twitter quite a bit and then there was a batch of verification applications and some people from stairs were included in that and it was like oh this is a nice tick you know then it wasn't paid for so it was it was a big deal and yeah Twitter was I think I would say it was it played an important role in the early days not so much today I'm like I guess off Twitter/x um but early days definitely big for for relationship building >> and I want to go back into your past right you know you you came here right so you reverse japa I know Japa, there's reverse. All right.

[00:05:25]Um, tell us more about that shift and why you decided to make that decision and then pivot away from being a lawyer into building Sears.

[00:05:36]>> Well, um, on some level it was very simple because while I was abroad, I thought, well, I knew I was going to move back. I knew I was going to move back. It wasn't, you know, I wasn't considering living outside Nigeria. The question was when and I had a I remember I had a life plan you know we all do at some stage and I was going to work for five to seven years as a lawyer um you know build up skills and you know networks and relationships and then move back to Nigeria. So that was the original plan after after uni but I think I did two two plus years and just moved back and that was actually because of stairs. So stairs gave me a sort of accelerated reason to move back, but I knew I was always going to come back. I knew I was always going to buy that oneway ticket and be like, you know, guys, I'm I'm done with with UK life.

[00:06:26]But it was it was that and then on the lawyer side, I've been thinking about it recently cuz someone else asked me and I think it was a very sort of naive unassuming pivot in that I didn't really think I was leaving law. Like I knew I was leaving law but my mindset was I'm trying to solve this problem and being a lawyer doesn't necessarily help me solve this problem. So there were other skills I realized I needed to solve the problem and I just started focusing on building them. So maybe when I quit my law job I felt okay stop being a stop being a lawyer but I was trying to build and each maybe there were few legal like you know incorporate the company that kind of thing but everything didn't really require legal skills. So I just kept building those skills and building those skills and actually when I came back to Nigeria I was um I had to make a deal with my parents and and one of my uncles um to do law school. So even though I came back I had already qualified in UK.

[00:07:25]I had practiced you know nice big law firm. I came back to Nigeria. I went to Nigerian law school and I wore my tie and my black trousers and white.

[00:07:35]>> I only wore the wig ones to be honest and that was the day I that was the day of graduation. But I went to Nigerian law school and it was um it was an experience.

[00:07:46]That's how it was it was um you know it was different coming from you know London. It was it was different but you know lessons learned I think in Nigerian hospital as well. Nah, they would have had to drag me cuz I also pivoted from law to entrepreneurship. I I knew from day one like this is not going to be for me.

[00:08:05]>> Also, first of all, you were buying breakfast. Is this pre Naira being stable or post Naira being stable? What were we doing?

[00:08:11]>> I'll tell you something about that. Very interesting. No one let me pay >> all these breakfast sessions, right? I think I was speaking to you, let me say, tech leaders >> and I was like the new guys. So, they were like, "Ah, no, no, no, no, no.

[00:08:24]Yeah, I got it." So, free breakfast for Honestly, I had my card as you know back up, but they were like, you're new now.

[00:08:31]We are the ones. Yeah, exactly. Take off. So, you know, now I don't think I can get away with that. But then free breakfast. People will be like, "No, you don't worry. It's okay. I'll sort out."

[00:08:43]>> I didn't mind the beautiful times. The beautiful times.

[00:08:47]So Preston, you've said before that data is a form of power, but in Africa where history is often undocumented and institutions are mistrusted, how do you think about data as both a truthtelling tool and a battleground for influence?

[00:09:01]>> So I think it depends on how you look at data in a different way. So I loved history in sort of um especially secondary school, high school. I love history and I learned a lot about Nigerian history or African history from just studying qualitatively.

[00:09:18]I think data is important because it's it's I think of it as structured history. When is data? It's just sort of better organized so you can access it cuz you go into a library like you know there there's data there but how accessible is it? Do you need to read a 100 pages or a thousand pages? But I think it's power because information just helps you to find the edge, get that competitive advantage, get that new thing or get a new perspective, right?

[00:09:44]It's like knowledge is power. You know, those those underlying concepts I think are always true. And if you are, you know, making a decision and you just have, let me say, 10 times more data points than all the other people making the decisions, you know, you're in a you're in a much better place. Like it's it's consistent. So when we think about so I'll give you an easy example of like some some data that is in high demand today across like our major major customers. So it's like transaction comes right I'm a fund manager I'm investing in this company and you know they're giving me X valuation and they're saying you know this is this is it if I've done you know 50 deals I have comes I'm like no no I've invested in this kind of company this is what I expect to pay this is you know your cap it shouldn't be about 5 million or 10 million right as the investor you have that edge you have that data the founder might not have that data in most cases maybe they talk to one of their founder friends and said yeah this was that valuation but they don't know when it comes to where the market is I actually found even from my own experience that founders are in a more siloed environment they gauging based on what they think they can you know get but the investor is looking at like 50 deals 100 deals so when you when you're sort of pushing and you're saying this is this is the base of our valuation they're just looking at think but this is number I'm going to land because of this this and sometimes they push back so like data can really infl influence the decisions you're going to make. It can help you build leverage where you don't have leverage and sometimes it can just make you look really smart and sometimes looking really smart is like an edge cuz people then get a bit intimidated. Oh, he knows what he's talking about. You don't even know need to know what you're talking about. Just sometimes, you know, confidence can move in a certain way. So yeah, I think that's how it sort of shows up as as power.

[00:11:32]>> I don't know about looking very smart giving you an edge in Nigeria, but we're walking towards that future for sure.

[00:11:38]But many African economies have haven't updated critical data in years, right?

[00:11:44]Nigeria didn't rebase its GDP for over two decades. Why do you think data has been so neglected and how does STERS go about solving that problem practically?

[00:11:52]And I want you to really go deep into this question because it's I think I was talking to one of the founders who's in remittance and he was saying that there's he said that there's no logic or um structure to how our currency devalues and goes down and like it's just every other day vibes vibes. So please go deep.

[00:12:15]>> Yeah. Okay. So I remember it was probably 2014 when we were when we were rebased because I was at a I was at a conference um an Africa Africa summit right and there was a actually it was a it was the founder founder of Shopright um South African you know billionaire and we're talking about how you know Nigeria suddenly bigger than South Africa and we had a long discussion around you know around that I think you have a number of problems that make that rebasing not happen so frequently One of them is just the I say the bureaucratic process of doing that right you know if you take the NBS or all the relevant sort of statistical agencies that should do that right they need to spend a lot of time changing the methodology gathering the new data and getting alignment across sort of multiple stakeholders and I say multiple stakeholders today I think there's a big incentive for this government looking for that you know trillion on the economy right to push and let people see how big the economy is but I think for many years most people didn't they weren't incentivized to do it because of the priorities I would say of of the government if you think about it you know for a number of years you know even the Bhari administration going in right security was big thing security was big thing that you know leaving you know the Jonathan administration there was a lot of talk of Bucharam was just starting so I remember lots of conversations where people even said you know the economy will take care of itself what we need to focus on is security right and that I think you saw that prioritization play out in that administration to a large extent right you know people said let's vote for someone who has that security security background so where those kind of economic decisions you know were prioritized I don't think there was many but it's also expensive right it's very expensive to you know again recalculate data and you need to kind of build new think of it as as new data collection pipelines. If you were collecting these two data points consistently and then now you need to collect 10 new data points, where do you get that data from?

[00:14:22]Right? How do you pay for it? Right? How do you make sure it's updated? You know, going through all those steps is actually quite quite key, but it's still super important because it helps with the storytelling, >> right? It helps people understand you know um understanding the the continent or Nigeria on a sort of more granular granular level and I think there are many economists who would argue that even till today I know there currently conversations going on anyway about you know doing another rebase but people still think there's a lot of our informal economy that is really not accounted for. I think it's going to be much easier going forward because so much is digital now and because you know you can see cash flows moving you can see money and you can trace it easier to like wow the actual volume of transactions happening in the country is a lot more than we knew before but you have those incentives I strongly believe that incentives shape almost everything >> like you know are you really incentivized to do this or incentivized to that I think this administration is definitely incentivized cuz this is an administration that's focused on I can just work from the private sector, right? Wanting to mobilize capital and if you want to move a dollar into, you know, Nigeria, you're looking for who's going to add their own dollar to that to, you know, to multiply your own dollar. So, you have that you, you know, you have that balance, but the numbers part, the I'll say the calculation that's that's sort of straightforward from a statistics perspective, but everything before that is, you know, getting the alignment across government.

[00:15:54]I think that's where the real challenge is. What do you think about companies like OPE and Moneypoint those who've really like focused on their unbanked and underbanked right um some of the data that has come out from you know their projections especially from the informal market. What what do you think those sort of companies help us unlock from a data perspective in Africa?

[00:16:14]>> I think they are like um I think they they play a very interesting role of documenting what's going on by virtue of playing that space. So they're just they're showing you money that was moving but they're just showing in digital channel. So I can't say people are necessarily doing more transactions right in fact with the way consumer power is is consumer spending power is changing. I'm not sure if people are doing even more transactions right but it's now records of the transactions. I think that's what they changed. So it's like they're data providers in a sense they're enablers because they make it easier for you to do business in you know multiple multiple ways right? But I think they open up the economy and they help build confidence for people who were unsure about how big certain markets are or you know what the trends are you know how's money moving how much are people actually spending on average and the more that data is sort of better structured and understood I what proportion money do people spend on different things like there's so many average stats where people say you know um Nigerians may spend over half of their income on food those kinds of things right when you start to have more aggated data it becomes you know easier to track that today a lot of that data is from surveys right it's it's NBS doing lots of surveys and asking people and you know surveys have challenges because you're self-reporting and you're saying you know you think back well how much did I spend this month and sometimes you don't want to you don't want to even say the whole truth so the data there is already shaky but when you have it recorded it's like it's proof it's evidence you can't you you know you you can't argue it and then you start to you start to better understand the underlying economy.

[00:17:51]>> A lot of times you guys ask for introductions to investors. You want to see our investor deck. You want introductions to other people. So we have finally created the room on Patreon. And in this room, it's a membersonly exclusive place where we show you the behind the scenes. You get to connect with other people. We share our playbooks. We do deep dives into specific industries. everything for an entrepreneur. It is like your total toolkit in real time.

[00:18:21]>> I always like to say this is the room where the most ambitious people in the diaspora find each other, right? Like again, sometimes it feels lonely building. Sometimes it feels like you're the only one in your circle who might understand what you really want to achieve. In this room, you will not feel alone. So again, join us on a Patreon, right? patreon.com/afropolitanodcast.

[00:18:42]All right, guys. Let's pay some bills.

[00:18:44]I want you to tell people what you're currently using because you know we always have to get Naira. So what app do you like?

[00:18:51]>> So now I use Zobo Money. Um Zob Money you can get the highest rates pretty fast, right? People get your money straight. No wala, no the bank has failed or bank is waiting. Um and I really like it and it's not just because they're sponsoring the show. I actually use it, right? So if you're somebody who's in the diaspora, you're looking to send money back home to places like Nigeria, Cameroon, Ghana, etc. uh you're able to use Zobo money to send money back home. And because they're such lovely people, they've given us a promo code within for you to be able to use to send money back home.

[00:19:24]>> Download it on your Apple and Google app today.

[00:19:27]>> What are the cultural nuances? Because this is this topic just fascinates me too many times, which is it feels like sometimes there's a reluctance from either Africans or even specifically Nigerians to give information that helps with data collection. What are what do you think are the cultural nuances that apply particular to like African or Nigerians that make them reluctant to report good data or good information or even I think from founders in the ecosystem sometimes they struggle with understanding the true macros of their environment and then they're just going off I have this thesis and it's I'm like look there's this other thing media coming that's a macro like for example this devaluation issue so I think these are two questions One, what are the cultural nuances? Two, how can founders better prep themselves to see the macros and adjust to the macros before they crash land?

[00:20:19]>> Yeah. So, the first one is interesting cuz it happens at many different levels.

[00:20:23]Um, there was a there was a there was a panel that I that I watched where people were talking about transactions. You know, you do a deal. I'm talking about an exit. I'm not talking about investment. I mean the deal has been successful, right? And um the let me say the beneficiary of this deal did not want to really talk about the you know about the exit like you know yes I've done it and you know trying to and he basically explains and says well >> is a problem then people know you have money >> right and we're talking about think about all those like family businesses especially because that was the specific context here. you know, we're running this business for a while. Some private equity fund comes in, you know, supports the business, exit, and this guy doesn't want to talk about it. I don't need my family members to know. I don't even want to come and meet me and say, "Oh, guy, we, you know, we've seen things that happen, right?" And so, this is outside the tech ecosystem. But I think in tech ecosystem, people are even more encouraged. It's like you're signaling to global global markets, right? Come and invest, right?

[00:21:25]>> The the payback businesses, they don't need to have the conversation. You're talking about, you know, 50 year old um, you know, adults who have run a family business for years and now the retirement is solid. They're passing on to their children. They don't need anybody has come to ask for school fees and all those things. So, you know, they they they they don't share that that data on one hand. So, you have that kind of nuance, but you also have in a different context of data just I could say maybe some fear or security concerns were like election data, >> right? When we were collecting election data, people didn't want to say who they were going to vote for >> and we're like, "Oh, no, we are not." We then in fact they said, "I've heard, but I'm not saying it on this phone call. I don't know who's recording." We're like, "No, no, no, you can say that." They still don't want to say because again, it's election is sensitive. So, they're different, >> you know, kind of issues.

[00:22:18]>> And then I guess on the on the founder side, I personally think that >> more data helps everybody. You know a rising tide lifts all boots but I think on a sort of micro level at individual level it may not feel that way >> may not feel that way if someone asks you for performance data on your business or you know your transaction details stuff like that right or you just think ah I don't want people to know what's what's going on internally or sometimes it could even be just hesitation like see we have not really done what you want to do maybe next year I'll disclose when I hit the milestone I'm going for but this year I haven't had done it. So there are so many trends there but none of them are kind of unfamiliar or or I would say the the one I mentioned the beginning around you know I don't need to disclose my exit that is very cultural you know it's Nigeria it's a society where you might be the bread winner for the you know for the community >> so those kind of trends affect but everywhere else I think it's it's really just things that other markets have gone through and the more people start to disclose the more transparent the entire market generally um you know becomes that I mean we're we're bullish on that.

[00:23:29]I always take the view that if we get if we get data right as long as nobody can arrest me and say you know I got illegally we will put you on our platform transaction I will put it valuation we'll put like that is where we are right now but I also know from looking at other data companies that there's a bit of um there's a bit of pushing you have to do because one company that you know we used to monitor major markets and they're they're sort of you North America or European data company and you know the way they they used to use like journalists actually and in people with that with investigative instincts and in the beginning of the business oh the customers were constantly complaining complaining that their data was out there right but they just kept putting out there because the customer stayed and the customer stay was like well my data is there somebody else's data there too so nobody wants to leave the platform cuz this where things are happening I'm not happy when it's me but that guys don't data will arrive too so I might as well hang around so you know you have all those trends I think you just even if everyone says no we don't want to disclose you know small small give it time just you know get what you can put things together and then you know the the larger database starts to compound >> sorry just even for our viewers right just to explain what stairs does and the comparisons of like other companies globally like stairs can be compared to would you say stairs is a combination of pitchbook um crunchb space Bloomberg terminal I don't are we in the right range you can just explain what's there so we're a financial data and software company right and you know it's a journey because we have we've pivoted where we are now is actually where we wanted to be in the beginning >> when we started we just couldn't arrive there from the get-go because you know the the cost of building it the infrastructure needed like today technology oh thank you AI has made it so much easier you know so we can actually do a lot more financial data and software. So meaning that we we provide data on companies, right?

[00:25:32]Provide data on transactions, so deal term, CTC. We provide data on countries as well. So like all the um all the macro stuff and then industry data, but the main thing is companies and transactions. And the people we target are actually investors. So you know the fancy word for them is the fund manager. So if you're private equity, if you're VC, sometimes even general asset managers.

[00:25:56]And why do we do that? Because during the investment process, right, you have assumptions you make and you need to do certain things like you need to value a company, >> right? You need to price your investment, right? You need to do your due diligence to confirm or validate the market opportunity. So you need to do all these things as part of the process.

[00:26:16]And so investors always have a chunk of cash that they effectively reserve to better understand where they're deploying capital. Now today they spend a lot of that on global data platforms right so the ones you mentioned pitchbook cap IQ prequin you know these are the main guys I mean in there but crunchbased targets you know you can use it yeah exactly right so the the cap IQ pitchbook prequin they cover like all companies so whether it's you know P whether it's VC they they'll cover you so they have a wider frame and that's also we actually started with PE which is not what I thought we'll because there's so much visibility of the VC ecosystem.

[00:27:00]>> Yeah.

[00:27:00]>> That when we started looking at PDOS, we're like, man, people are doing things. And of course, private equity investors invest in more mature businesses, >> right? So, whereas a VC can do, you know, 10 investments, one just needs to land, the other nine, they can be shaky, >> PE are like, no, nothing can turn to zero. No, we can't lose one investment cuz they're looking for 2x returns, 3x returns, you know. So, the company has to be solid. They talk about profitability from meeting one, >> right? You know, cash flow positive.

[00:27:30]Those are, you know, important things.

[00:27:32]So, that's where we come in. We gather all the data and just make it available, you know, on a platform. And then because we are focused on Africa, right, we have that extra depth, >> right? Is that extra attention the the context that is not always there on a global data platform, right? There was one I guess big platform that many people were using and what the pattern we saw was that people get it for one year just pay the annual license no problem and then move and then you know next year like we don't want to renew.

[00:28:04]So we did a demo with the provider and like oh okay makes sense 1% of your data is Africa that's why but they don't do trials so you can't check it out before buy then you see what they do demo and then enter so when you enter like oh only 1% of your data focus on the market I'm looking at >> right people then have to have to jump up so that's where we come in and we just provide >> and provide that data but again it's not where we started but like it's where we are 100% now >> I'm so glad that we're diving deeper into this. So, sometimes founders come to me for advice, especially with how to raise for their companies. And I think the last conversation I had um he has more of an investment um bank background and PE background. So, he was used to raising in that way, right? But he's raising from VC.

[00:28:50]>> So, I had to explain to him like, yo, there's a very big nuance between how you approach VC investors versus how you approach PE investors, right? Or how you even approach the deal. Can you for our viewers sake, especially for a founder or founders out there who are looking to raise or even come into this entire ecosystem, explain the nuances between private equity investors and venture capital investors and what they're both looking for?

[00:29:13]>> Yeah, it's it's um it's actually quite simple. So, venture they're taking big bets early, right? And they're looking for outsized returns.

[00:29:24]>> And what what um what check size are you seizing? Can you be specific with the dollars? So I mean in terms of in terms of VC you can go as low as your kind of 5k you know angel like check right all the way to I mean if you do a series B or series C right it can even be much larger 50 million 70 million especially when you go out of the out of the continent check dollars yes of dollars definitely um PE um PE checks would generally always be bigger from the from the beginning so you know they will probably even start with like 5 million that's what they that's what they thinking dollars, right? But the businesses that they target, what's different, >> right? So, when you think about those um boring businesses >> that make money, >> that make money. Exactly. That's where PE investors are.

[00:30:12]>> They're looking at cash flow and PE is heavily influenced by North American PE.

[00:30:18]And North American PE the in the should I say the golden days or the days like 1980s, right? was about finding a company loading with debt, right? So you only put Exactly. You only put a little bit of your own money, right, in there.

[00:30:33]Loaded with debt because the company is strong enough to take the debt, >> right? And so the company's cash flows, they just watch cash flow. It's like how much how much is how much inflows are you getting, right? And it's that money is then used to pay the debt while the company is the while the P um asset manager is the Yeah. They're effectively the owners of that.

[00:30:55]>> So they have they need strong businesses. They can't come in when it's you know early because I mean venture venture capital the idea is really adventure capital that that you know if you look at it historically is when people were going out you know on ships to look for new new territories right that's that's really what it was like go there some ships will not come back that's okay you know it's part of the model PS are like every ship needs to come back with a bag of gold. So you know that's just a general mindset. So they wouldn't even >> really touch a lot of venturebacked businesses >> and that's where you have some really really iconic companies like money point that actually started on VC side but if you look at their recent billion dollar fund raise DPI was the lead and DPI is a is a PE fund >> but how much did they raise?

[00:31:44]>> They raised about 110 million believe.

[00:31:46]Yes. So um and DPI is a normally a P fund. So they're looking for again just businesses that work, right?

[00:31:56]When you then think about the average founder, the if their mindset is growth, growth, growth, yeah, the P is probably not going to, you know, they're not looking at that. Ps will say they do growth equity. So your your business already is already working. And that's that that's that key differentiation. So the metrics they're looking at, right, are different from the beginning. You need profitability to even be in the game, right? you know long established businesses if the business is maybe um not very technology enabled right that's great because future optimizations you know you bring it in family businesses those kinds of businesses coming think about one of the big P deals that happened um and recently I fitness it's a it's a gym you wouldn't you wouldn't hear a VC you know the circuit that we investing I fitness that's like that's physical things no no no people are looking for asset you know everything digital. So it's it's bigger and different world and obviously it still has its own challenges as an asset class because exits are still you know challenging devaluation touches everybody. It doesn't matter which asset class you're in devaluation going to is going to touch you. But these businesses tend to you know they don't they don't often fail. You don't expect a business to to disappear now because you were you were working long before it came. So that's like a major difference between the two.

[00:33:18]I think today or when I moved back to Nigeria actually I hear a lot of criticism of local investors and people say these are actually PE funds masquerading as VCs and that was because most of the local investors had like a higher bar for companies they were going to invest in. But that was based on their experience in Nigeria, right?

[00:33:44]Because doing business here is hard.

[00:33:46]Yeah.

[00:33:46]>> It's not easy at all. And so they really wanted to make sure you had things right. Um I still think about the the startups that I remember for like 2020, you know, 2021.

[00:33:59]I don't know if I say a few of them or a number of them are not around right now are not active, right? But it's it's it's that reality. VC is generally top as an asset class everywhere right in Africa where the business environment is is tough it's also going to be top so now people need to actually start looking at other things I love what for instance e is doing with um accelerate Africa >> which is that you know future of accelerate Africa and what's he talking about talking about you know million dollars in in in revenue right so now everyone's talking about revenue not just not just growth again yeah so it's revenue and then profitability so I'll say those are the two big distinctions.

[00:34:39]>> So what I want to talk about speaking on this is what are the investment opportunities in Nigeria. I ask this question because every time we release a podcast episode, we get people that say, I'm from the diaspora, you know, I'm learning more about, you know, real estate. The last episode we had, you know, he talked a lot about cultural touch points and how you can invest. And so people are saying, I'm learning based off of the data you're seeing. Talk about the investment opportunities. And another layer I want you to look into is the ones that are unsexy, right? Um I almost want to even move away from tech because I I feel like everyone is just like tech tech. And I'm like I don't think it's just tech that's going to make the money.

[00:35:20]>> Mhm. Yeah.

[00:35:21]>> What you going to sell? You know do me on sex.

[00:35:25]>> If it will make if it'll make 2030 billion I sure will.

[00:35:30]I'll be on the streets honking by indo >> chicken flavor. Pork flavor. I b that I back that I actually expect many first time tech founders in their second or third attempt to not necessarily go for tech tech companies right >> if you know how to do solid product development in a in a digital environment right and you can find a traditional opportunity you know that normal business and just infuse tech infuse that tech in there right you can start to because then it's differentiation cuz it's So like what's your competitive edge, >> right? So when you start looking across all the asset classes, you you hear the unsexy things, you know, industry like industrials, >> you know, we're talking like logistics, right? You know, that that's a big opportunity because there's there's need there. People are still trying to move things from northern Nigeria to southern Nigeria. They're still trying to get things out of middle middle belt, all the agricultural, you know, um produce that come there. If you look at, you know, tomato for instance, we talk about waste. So you're you're you're thinking about cold storage as a solution because people need to move things from one place to another and they need to keep all these things you know they want to make sure it doesn't it doesn't spoil. I mean agriculture is a is big today, it's going to be big tomorrow and I think it will be big forever because it's such an important part of any nation's growth.

[00:36:55]Like food security is a big conversation that you know in today's world where we're talking about tariffs and imports and stuff like that, right? Being able to actually produce what you consume is super super key. So there are a couple of fund managers for instance who are just focused on agri businesses and when I say agri business I mean we're talking small holder farmer level not necessarily we have an app for small holder farmers no talking we're giving them the fertilizer you know we're helping them with um production we're helping them with the refining because in like agriculture and most of agree businesses right producing more high value products is where the monies at not not just the raw raw material so like that's another example financial services across Ross the board is always going to be profitable and we're seeing right now it's still the industry with the that producing the most most returns and financial services just because of its actual impact in our lives like you need to pay for stuff you need to borrow you know if you if you become a lender any day you always have customers you know I'm lending 1 million people show up there I'm borrowing 1 million so that business is I think the lending business is about are you identifying good borrowers that's really the work to be done and collection >> after you giving any money can you get can you can you get it back right so you know that that that there but you have the core things around financial services right will always always be valuable whether you're looking on P side or the the VC side because like I mentioned you money point OPA right this is agent banking or that has a strong physical hardware element to it and when you I've read a lot interesting analysis about our tech ecosystem that has basically said you need to think hybrid you know some software and then some hardware because you know here people like to touch few things business is still quite quite physical the pure digital model it's not really going to you know it's not really going to land so when I think about investment opportunities the one that I'm most you know um attracted to general obviously financial services like I said from your traditional banks I hope that a lot of let me say fintech founders over time have started to appreciate why the big banks are there and you know how difficult they can be to dislodge it's not easy I think remember when everyone came and we're going to disrupt banking today we are partnering with the bank today you know we seeing the banks actually also spin off profitable sort of digital arms from the beginning because they're coming from a culture where everything must add up profit and loss on day one this is not grow this is revenue This is not monetized after using free users for 3 years. No, this is monetized on day one.

[00:39:42]And when you are monetizing on day one, you're thinking differently. You're just, you know, looking at things. So, as a financial services, agree business.

[00:39:50]I think the the industrials industrials captures a lot of things. But I think logistics is a is a need that we're going to have. The issue is the business model you use to then solve these problems, right? Because if you don't get the business model right, you can sink money into it, into the opportunity, right? Like we've seen some logistic business not do so well, >> right, recently, right? And even outside Nigeria. But I love some of the trends that we're seeing around logistics in like um more I mean South Africa has always been a more advanced market and more developed, but if you look at sort of north Africa, Morocco, those markets, right? You're seeing Egypt where logistics is really picking up. I think we still need those hubs locally and those are businesses that um you know you can't it's not just coding you're going to talk to someone and face something and put out a physical product like a truck before you get >> what about the creative industries uh so I personally maybe just because I see it every day um the other day someone sent me a LinkedIn article about um our local fabrics and how um they're aging um and now there's this issue of there's the demand for the these type of local fabrics we produce, but China is now making them. They're not as good, but China is now stepping in. Um, so I think about manufacturing. Um, I think about even media, right? Um, and how uh I don't again you will correct me about the data, but how Nigerians consume so much media and we produce amazing media and it's being exported. Is there any business opportunity or are you seeing any data around those points?

[00:41:28]>> Sorry to add to what she saying. I don't know if you watched the E episode, but he basically said we we've lost the manufacturing race. We should be focused on 1 million or 10 say 10 million Nigerians or 1 million Nigerians just going into end.

[00:41:42]>> I understand where it's coming from.

[00:41:44]>> Yeah. So I think the creative industry um one thing I actually should have mentioned when you ask me about opportunity is now most really seasoned again I'm thinking about the private equity plus the VC um investors are looking for export businesses >> because of the dollar crisis that we have been going through. Yes. Right.

[00:42:05]It's just dollar um you know export businesses. So I'm selling to somebody outside and creative industry 100% does that. Right. It's just it's just you know especially when it's a digital product you can sell it anywhere. So the way I think about creative industries is of course there domestic opportunities but what makes it so attractive is that you can produce it here and you can sell it globally. So our ability to attract global audiences right and get them to pay dollars very important they bring dollars or pounds >> right for things that are being produced here is the opportunity. It's like it's like that's the arbitrage, you know, opportunity because your production costs are here and you're selling globally. So, I think when you look at the um like streaming and a lot of these other um opportunities, right? It's that trend, right? You're making it here, you put it on this platform that has distribution and people are sort of, you know, subscribing from anywhere. So, I think that's what makes creative industry particularly attractive. And when you look at artists and like some of the business model there you know concert is that you make this you make the song in studio here it blows you go to O2 fill it out right and you can do that in Nigeria you always had debt in SMA and those things right but you fill out O2 I think you you know you come with something solid some solid revenue so again that is still a form of of export when people say what is our biggest you know export and we say people we say music we say all those things Right. From a business standpoint, it is because it can be exported. So, whatever you're doing, if you can sell it outside the borders, your business will have investors for sure. I think that's the that sort of big picture big trend in there.

[00:43:46]>> I love it. So, first, I don't know if you've been seeing talk about the $10 trillion opportunity, especially in the US with about 12 million plus baby boomer business owners retiring in the next decade. Um, about 80,000 businesses currently listed for sale in the US.

[00:44:01]only 20% of those businesses in the market successfully sell. All right. And then traditional lenders have tightened criteria for business acquisition loans.

[00:44:10]Two two questions I have. First, what do you think about the opportunity? Have you even heard about it? That's the first question. Two, where are baby boomer businesses in Nigeria? And why are they not retiring? Number one. And this second one was a revelation I just had.

[00:44:27]Maybe our baby boomer businesses here are not businesses but politicians.

[00:44:31]So we need them to retire so that we can >> but they retire to their children now.

[00:44:35]You know in America they don't they have a birth problem but they have six children. They have six children that can take it off.

[00:44:43]>> It's a big family to feed. But so those two questions right? Have you heard of the opportunity $10 opportunity in the US? And then two where how come it's not copy and past? You know what? I'll answer the second question first because I have heard more about the opportunity >> locally and domestically, right? It's a it's a global trend, but from where I'm sitting, I've not thought about, you know, the impact in the US market and North America, they always be fine. They always sort themselves out. They create their, you know, their secondary market and sell things.

[00:45:14]>> But I've heard that conversation.

[00:45:15]>> What's the dollar amount for our own conversation here?

[00:45:17]>> I don't actually. It's difficult to It's difficult to It's a lot of informal problem.

[00:45:21]>> Yes. Exactly. And let me tell you why. I I read a report about um um M&A in in markets like Nigeria and basically one of the challenges is um you think you are speaking to the owner of the business you know is there is somebody you know two two steps removed that is really controlling the affairs of the business and so you're talking to some you know CEO MD in front and then having that issue you are like why you not making a decision cuz I'm not in charge. Right?

[00:45:54]So our buy >> just because they wear doesn't mean that decision.

[00:45:59]>> So the thing with M& is you need alignment. There are many things that need to happen for a business to be to be sold. Right? You need a willing buyer at the right price and you need growth opportunities that the buyer can take on. Now if many people think about let me say businesses their parents run and even put the position side just business their parents run right. How likely is it that when their parents step down, those businesses will continue or be sold versus they will just shut down, >> right? We have a lot of businesses that actually are not passed down because the way they're sort of structured, right?

[00:46:38]They are not structured for external people to come and take them over. you know, one-man businesses or even business that are so >> closely tied to the founder, >> right, that when it comes to passing it on, even culturally, we're not comfortable with it.

[00:46:53]>> One question that I'm used to getting from, let me say, my um my uncles when I talk about stairs is they'll say something like, "Okay, so you you plan to pass it on to your children."

[00:47:04]And I think to myself, wow, we don't really have that conversation. Because today, if you're coming from the tech space, you're building business to pass on to another business. You're looking for financial exits or strategic exits, right?

[00:47:15]>> Yeah. Exactly. Right. We're not thinking, you know, >> it's not a shop where my son or daughter will take over the shop and take it to next level. You have you have multiple founders where everyone's children now come and take over the take over the board, right? So the the underlying businesses, right, when they're structured differently, it it can be hard, right? The second thing is for a sale to actually happen there is a process that the business needs to go through to get ready to take that capital. So take a fancy phrase like corporate governance >> that when you see ah the bank account of the owner is it different from the bank account of the business >> right and you start seeing it this a business expense personal expense I love that word zaza >> so you you have that challenge >> you have it >> so when someone comes in professional wants to buy this business and they realize am I buying you or am I buying the business how distinct are the two you know at the two entities. So there is a lot of work and I think there's a business opportunity here for financial advisors who target family businesses right that effectively are helping you prepare to be sold somewhere else or to to have another life. And I say family businesses because >> if you survey a lot of people who maybe studied abroad whether in UK you know ATC what do your parents do? ah they do this business they have this business you realize that there are loads of farm business that are strong >> because you know if you're running a business um and that's why you didn't take care of your family you're not doing good good at all cost you are doing profit to pay school fees so those businesses are quite strong right but they need to be set up they need to do planning they need to have their books in order you know they need to be able to pitch >> right they need you know the process we go through as founders pitch deck this that if it's to wear your suit and tie or to wear your t-shirt, whatever audience you're going for, right?

[00:49:15]Preparing in for them is key. So, we still have that challenge with many businesses that I think is is going to block us because we are also going to see people retire.

[00:49:25]>> Yeah.

[00:49:25]>> The same trends I think they exist in different markets. But how well documented, you know, is it? My both my parents are doctors and my dad owns a a hospital. My mom owns a different hospital, right? I don't know what happens in my dad's hospital, know more about my mom's hospital, but as I'm getting older, right, it's like getting to that stage where you need to talk and say, "What's going on in the, >> you know, in the business? Do you have a board?"

[00:49:51]>> She's like, "Ah, not really." So, now we're starting, you know, weekly calls.

[00:49:55]Well, let's find out what's going on in the business. And you see the revenue.

[00:49:58]Okay, this how you pay school fees.

[00:50:00]>> I see. I see. I see. Then you start looking at, you know, so again, very very different. But this is my my my mom owns a hospital in Benin. That's a you know Edo state, right? But she services Delta State, a few other a few other areas. She's been buying equipment for a long time, right? But I go there and it's a cash business. You know, people are coming to pay in cash, you know, you can I can still see how tools and things like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I just it's all a matter of time you know when can I sit down cuz those are strong businesses that really you know can be taken advantage of to make something even bigger like franchises that's not something that's easy to do >> in this market right if someone set sets up a restaurant set up another branch with the same quity control in another state problem. So I always respect businesses like that that are able to do that because you need a different level of um of planning of quality assurance to make sure the um you I don't know if you for people remember Mr. bigs, >> right? You know, it came and then it it went right >> today set up a different branch in another state that you don't live in, >> it's quite difficult, right? So again, those kind of things when you can get them right, I think you have businesses that open up new layers >> actually. Can you speak about franchises cuz you mentioned I fitness, right? And they are everywhere. And I think they're they're quite interesting because number one, I remember we drove by one uh the other day at like Friday 11 a.m. It was packed and I was confused like why are all these people in the gym at 11:00 a.m.? Like don't they work? You know, so I was like, what's going on that gym?

[00:51:41]But then the other side of it was so for me it's quite interesting because um I know the the founders of Fitness Central and I I know how difficult it was and I I know eventually they they um sold it to a South African firm and I don't know where it is today but it seems like I fitness has somehow figured out the business model here in Nigeria because I see them everywhere.

[00:52:04]>> Yeah. Yeah. So I fitness is pbacked >> right actually. So you know the first um PE fund that that took them was Cardinal Stone, right? And if you hear the story of sort of Y who's one of the >> Yeah. Yeah. We're we're supposed to interview him.

[00:52:22]>> Oh, he he he'll answer wonderful questions around um around that. But they they started working in the business at a time when you know some other PONs felt it's not yet structured well enough. Other Ps looked at it but thought you know this one is still you need to do a lot of work. you need to be in the driving seat with the team which is another thing private equity and fund managers tend to do they are in the business you know sometimes they think of themselves as the COO of the business right >> um so they took it on it I don't remember how many branches had at the time right but effectively helped to professionalize it even more so that Verro another P fund took it off them >> right now Verro is also an investor in money point right so Ver you know sort of branch multiple um >> multiple funds a VC fund separate fund fund. Yeah.

[00:53:14]>> Right. But you see this trend of you know P fund managers who are more operational in mind taking businesses and effectively just making them even stronger.

[00:53:24]>> So I think there's a lot of value to be unlocked from certain kinds of investors because as a P investor you're offering more than just financial capital, >> right? and you're working with things that are already stable. So, they're just trying to add more and more branches, right? They're really trying to go out and you know, at the base of it, if you look at how they how they build, right? It's the same kind of general structure, same look, same feel.

[00:53:50]Um, and of course, economies of skill skills start to come in training for instance, I heard y talk on podcast around how they have to train all their all their pts, the personal trainers across everywhere so that you feel you're getting the same experience, right? And of course, they have to make money. they have like an annual fee or something that I remember when they did annual fee remember was last year and you know there was some noise on on social media around what exactly is annual fee for I already pay monthly when I'm there thinking they need cash flow they need the business and it it's it's I use I fitness today and I like and I like it and I'm happy to see businesses like that growing because the impact on employment as well >> is is is great so >> those depending on the kind of investors you debt, right? You can really chase different opportunities because financial investors can give you money, >> but they're not going to be in driving seat with you. They can help you with, you know, slide deck level strategic direction, right? But people who, you know, come to the come on site on ground and help you figure things out, I think that's where um local investors are so key. I in the beginning when I first moved back I thought you know North American capital was what you needed to run your business. Today I'm like nah local investors you need them you need them because when something happens and you're trying to figure out which center to call >> you won't be you need ground you need on ground those connections. So they're so key but I love that you you reflect that because I think that that kind of business will continue to grow. even um um Chicken Republic, it's it's Pbacked as well, DPI, the same guys in in Money Point. So when you start to unpack it's just that you know these investors they they they outside sort of V VC space and so the kind of media coverage that their deals get is is a little different and I mean chicken in public not many people are trying to analyze it the way they analyzing the future of fintech >> right but the future of retail >> that's a big conversation right outside e-commerce but you know we're still maturing those conversations >> you know to the point we were talking about earlier about comingling It >> it's affected how we even pass down wealth to families, right? That's why you also see some families that you know the matriarch or the patriarch was wealthy the bread winner and then they struggled the generation over because we don't have good governance models. So I just wanted to highlight that I wanted to switch to artificial intelligence our favorite topic. So as AI begins to shape decision-m at scale from public to public policy to finance, how is STERS thinking about integrating or responding to artificial intelligence? What does ethical Africa centered AI even look like to you?

[00:56:37]>> Okay, so um I would say our response is basically thank you for this, you know, great technology because you know one of the core inputs into any good model is data. So I feel like this our wave. M >> I remember when um um blockchain web 3 very hot and um I was like damn we didn't have an angle here you know we can't we can't play business >> you know when blockchain is like man there's nothing here crypto like ah king and then we couldn't find it but yeah I was like thank you Jesus and this wave is going to be long >> right so it's um it's been transformative for the for the for the business there were things that we couldn't do >> when we started >> it was and when I say couldn't do it could be done but it just needs so much money to do it >> that today is like you know sit down focus spend some hours right and you can really manufacture some output real tangible output right but what we're also seeing with it is that um people I think are going to be the biggest friction with AI >> right just people um because there's fear there's fear around them, you know, losing jobs. If I do it this way, won't they realize that they don't really need me, right? You know, they can do it without me cuz you look at the impact across different disciplines.

[00:58:05]I remember seeing engineering salary costs just inflate across, you know, the ecosystem, right? Go from one one and then millions. People start talking dollars and ah we are local, why are we talking dollars, right? And today, you know, there's reason for engineers to be concerned about whether teams will still need as many as they do today to get things done, >> right?

[00:58:30]>> I think that um it's not going to be that quick mainly because teams need to figure out how to operate if they're going to use fewer human beings, right, and more tools because of course tools need to be instructed. Now, in our situation, where are we seeing some of the some of the gaps? I think this is sort of the I don't want to say the era of the generalists but we're seeing that people who are have high agency right and have pockets of knowledge across multiple domains >> are probably as a default better suited >> because I'm not a designer I just know small just I can just do a few things I can say this design is bad or design is good right I'm not an engineer but I understand the you know basic HTML CSS you know And there were I'm not very good at all these things individually but I can use AI to basically you know do that and I think there is some serious empowerment going to going to go on there. We are now collecting data, you know, with AI. We're cleaning data with AI. Like we saw a 30x quite frankly, right? Um increase in data velocity coming through our pipeline in terms of transaction from building an agent, an AI agent to actually collect data, right? You know, we at the beginning we use a team of people to collect data transactions. Today it's it's it's agents, right? We're talking multi- aent systems where the agents are all talking to each other and effectively just doing so you kind of have a a a data analyst agent right the engineer agent and they're all working together there's still a lot of work to make it all happen together and then the edge cases are where you then need to kind of go a bit deeper and you the experts to come in there there are still layers that people aren't sure of like security stuff like that you know how do you make that work but man it is it is transforming I can see the not just the impact so far but the future impact on bottom line because costs can go down.

[01:00:35]>> The cost going down though I'm I'm keeping my eyes very pale to that because I think they can also go up.

[01:00:41]>> Yeah.

[01:00:41]>> Right. As competition wonderful thing.

[01:00:44]Thank you for you know capitalism >> open >> you know. Yes. Exactly. You know your tools maybe get get cheaper but then the reliance on tools right. If you build systems around subscriptions and you know sometimes you put you know you want to just test this this LM API you just put $100 just try a few things it has gone ah what happened now is this does this mean $100 a day you know so there there those um um implications right but honestly speaking I think at least on on on the stair side I'm very happy right the team sees like the capabilities we have like automation Wednesdays is where your team is just looking at any workflow and trying to do it faster right um and you have like some teams I think will be maybe a bit slower I think about like finance or to where you don't want the number to the the eye to hallucinate now say x amount in the is in the bank account when it's a different amount so there areas where there's like heavy human qa >> but building today man if you if you just if money has just landed you just closed you you haven't yet had your team. I just say don't rush.

[01:01:55]>> Just slow it down. Just slow it down.

[01:01:57]Maybe you thought that you needed a team of designers, right? And you might think, let me bring in a head of design.

[01:02:02]That head of design's instinct is to build out their design, brand designer, product designer, all of that. Right?

[01:02:08]Today, you can be like, >> slow down, >> slow down, right? What is the output I need? I need designs. Do I need a designer? Right? So you if you have those conversations, you'll still get people in, but you can also set their expectations.

[01:02:21]>> Let them know this what we expect, like you know, um and for teams that I think are already big and doing a lot of output, they're going to need to slow down to bring in AI into those workflows. If you're fixing bugs and stuff like that every day, then you don't have enough time to actually do new things like try AI and people like, you know, we're not sure, we know how to do it this way. So, I think human beings are probably going to be less friction, but man, I'm happy.

[01:02:50]>> So, I want to switch gears a bit um and talk about more of um something that happened in the past. So, you attended Lyola with Ian, right?

[01:02:59]>> Um and obviously, you also experienced that plane crash with your um with people that you went to school with. Can you talk about that time and what it looked like?

[01:03:10]>> So, this Yes. Yes. December December 10th. Um I think when you look back it was you know I was younger than than you obviously and the impact was was different depending on I think even our ability to understand what was going on.

[01:03:28]I think that was a key key thing. Um because what I remember um December 10th my is actually my dad's birthday >> and so you know got home and then was kind of hearing the news and you know it's filing through and you're not quite sure okay where exactly it was you know at etc who was on there.

[01:03:48]It took a while for the list of people to to actually come out. It wasn't until It wasn't until I would say we really got back to school that the impact was felt more clearly and the school actually had to reorganize all the classes >> because they didn't want people coming back and then seeing three empty desks and remembering oh these you know these desks there were people there so there was some shifting don't remember if they did in all in all years right but they had to they had to do that to kind of close and close the gap I didn't have anyone fortunately that was really close to me, you know, in any of the um um on on that flight. But I think it's it was weird and odd dealing with grief such an early such an early age because you see people >> break down like >> really I remember some practical things like um someone losing their their boyfriend, right? And you know if you're 13, 14 and then you know you just have this relationship in school and then you know the person passes away in a plane crash. It's like it's not like it's something that only happens to adults but at that age it's just it's not the way you expect you know a relationship to end. So it was like seeing all the grief around and you know that really sober period for the whole for the whole school. I think later on is when it started to really dig deep as you face other forms of grief and then you see oh my god this is how deep it was because I felt a bit isolated from the fact that you know wasn't anyone really really close to me and very quickly I think the school did a good job of closing those ranks and you know kind of modeling so you didn't think about it but we also couldn't forget because the year that came in after that plane crash was a big year they had to add a lot more students in the next year to make up so that the whole school population. So we had this I think my year maybe we started at 109 or something across the year and then the year that came maybe they came60 or 150 just a larger number. So that year was like a reminder >> this was the class that we had to bring in extra people to make up for that you know um um student student population that that came out and but today I think the biggest impact is the lawyer community it's very strong kind of very close and every >> people say that too often >> I had to leave a group because of it I'm like okay okay okay Yeah, but you know, you know, grief, grief has a way of bonding.

[01:06:25]>> Yeah. Not that. Yeah. Cuz I didn't understand that context, right?

[01:06:28]>> It has a way of bonding people. It has a way of making us feel, you know, this was, you know, this was this was us, right? If I think if I was in maybe a two or three at time it happened, right?

[01:06:39]>> I think it would have had a very different very different impact immediately, right, compared to compared to the impact. But I I sort of saw it through it kind of third party lens looking at people and seeing their own grief but not being able to process it until on until much later.

[01:06:56]>> Yeah.

[01:06:56]>> Okay.

[01:06:57]>> And can you just you know I want to you just to talk about what does legacy look like as you're building this thing especially with AI now infused in your company like what does it look like a few years down the road?

[01:07:09]>> Yeah I think honestly the legacy that I I think about is on the problem. Um, I don't want anyone who is investing in Africa to need to pay for a global data platform.

[01:07:21]>> That's it. I don't want them to need to bring out 20 something,000 for Cap IQ or Bloomberg. No, I I I don't want that. I say that because, you know, >> it's we've just seen so many customers who have to do that.

[01:07:36]>> Yeah.

[01:07:37]>> And get really little value. This is not these are not tools where you would say um in like an accounting tool. It doesn't matter where it came from.

[01:07:44]Quickbooks, you use it anywhere in the world, right? The these are tools with information on them. And if you have to pay $25,000 to just get a small piece of of information, right, and not even get that focus, right? So the, you know, year on year the the product isn't changing for you because they're not prioritizing you, right? We want to make sure that people who are investing in Africa have their I wouldn't necessarily say homegrown solution but have a solution that they can look at and say this one does the job for us because this is our job and this tool is designed to support our job. Um I don't believe that we can solve all the sort of data problems. I think there needs to also be more data companies. to the second aspect of legacy when I think about it is making that a a a market making that an industry because when we're fundraising explaining how to monetize data to people they didn't really get it people especially local investors right but we want to be a success story so that other people who say we're building a data product I'm like okay this makes sense cuz I don't I I'm tired of hearing that um Nigerians Africans don't use data I think you have an availability problem Yeah.

[01:08:57]>> Right. So if you don't have a lot of data available, right, you're not going to build a data culture, right? But I think we can change that and hopefully make it easier for other people both on a sort of signaling level but also on a business model level because we have pivoted and we have learned so much to get to a place where we figure out okay this is how you make money in the data in the data space. Most people think I have some data let me monetize it. But the truth is as a core data business there's like a there's like an inflection point. You need to have so much data it needs to compound right. It needs to be so much that it can then become a product of zero because a little bit of data may be valuable for it for a small decision but it doesn't mean it will be valuable not for a company.

[01:09:44]>> So rapid fire we ask you question you give a quick yes or no or you just give us the first answer that comes to your mind.

[01:09:53]>> Okay. Data or instinct? What guides you more often?

[01:09:57]>> Instinct.

[01:09:59]>> Look at God.

[01:10:02]>> Okay. One book that shaped how you think about systems or article >> Commanding Heights. It's a It's a book I read a long time ago. New Order.

[01:10:16]Commanding Height. I will. Yeah, that's it.

[01:10:20]>> Favorite underrated Nigerian dish.

[01:10:23]Oh sh mana please. People need to love it.

[01:10:30]>> What does legacy mean to you in one word?

[01:10:34]>> Trust.

[01:10:35]>> Trust me when data business people need to trust us.

[01:10:39]>> Your journey in one hashtag >> change.

[01:10:45]Change too much change. That's it. I just say about # change or maybe too much change but change that's how I that's how I think about it.

[01:10:54]>> Yeah.

[01:10:54]>> So I have one last question before we wrap up. Uh it's about due diligence right >> um typical due diligence stairs can attest to that which is hey I've subscribed to stairs I can you know leverage some of the information they have there. In our cultural context, there are nuances to due diligence.

[01:11:13]Meaning, you can hear some gists >> that's not necessarily structured data, but that can also impact whether I'm supposed to deploy funds for this company or not. How does that get because we're a very communal people?

[01:11:27]>> Um, and even we we do some deals where we've invested in companies too, but sometimes you hear information that's not necessarily structured information.

[01:11:36]And it might be information you heard while outside popping bottles or drinking pepper soup, >> but it's going to be >> legitimate information that impacts a deal. So, how does that get filtered through from our own cultural context and especially in a stairs format for due diligence, especially because it's anecdotal, not necessarily like hard ones and zeros.

[01:11:57]>> Yeah, I think um it's really through through like documentation. Um because ultimately the way we think about that and you can think of it as remote intelligence that's what it is but it's still it's still intelligence right um the the documentation of it either as a rationale for for instance an investment why did you make this investment well I thought I heard did this it's that that is still in the context of why I did you know I I did this right but it being documented in that format I think is the um is is is the key thing right and then of course the the exit part which is And maybe you hear ah I I just did this dooo and I got this out of it right. um in a very structured environment we call like exit assessments right but I think until we are consistently documenting those things with the right label on top of them we will undervalue it because we kind of see it as as like you said rumor this that but it's actually very valuable because again relationships just all of that stuff still affects the ultimate investment decision and the due diligence and stuff like that. I've had people call me, I'm sure everyone here has where someone just wants to know, hey, do you know the founder about this business? What do you think, >> right? And you just share it in that way. That is still intelligence. Even if you don't think of it as data, it's informing somebody else's decision >> and it's just, you know, the more it's documented, >> the more it turns into monetizable data.

[01:13:27]M.

[01:13:28]>> And so the last question we ask every guest on the Afropolitan podcast is who do you want to see on this couch?

[01:13:38]>> Whose story needs to be told?

[01:13:41]>> Oof. I am biased because you already said he's he's coming here. Um I was thinking of Y because of IFitness. Um so he is someone I would like to I would like to see hear his story about taking businesses in very sort of early stage and then you know turning them into like franchises strong you know strong businesses like that I would say I would say yummy from >> you'll see him soon Preston thank you for joining us no >> problem no problem thank you