Constitutionally, Jonathan Still Has One More Term To Contest - Lawyer, Tony Ofoyetan

[00:00:00]Former President Good Luck Jonathan is back in the political spotlight uh but not for declaring ambition but for uh over a legal battle that could shape the 2027 presidential race. A suit seeking to stop Jonathan from contesting has now triggered fresh constitutional arguments in court as his legal team insist the issue has already been settled by higher courts. This is standpoint. I am precious amay.

[00:00:25]So, former president Good Luck Jonathan has formally challenged a lawsuit seeking to bar him from contesting the 2027 presidential election. Uh, the matter came up before Justice Peter Leu of the Federal High Court in Abuja where Jonathan's lawyer, Chris Uchan, informed the court that the former president had already filed a notice of preliminary objection, counter a fee of it, and written address asking the court to dismiss the suit. According to the senior advocate, Jonathan only became aware of the case through media reports prompting an urgent legal response because of the constitutional implications surrounding his eligibility to run for office again. U argued that the matter was surprising, especially because similar issues regarding Jonathan's eligibility had previously been decided by both the federal high court and the court of appeal. The suit was filed by lawyer John Mary Gobi who is asking the court to permanently restrain Jonathan from seeking nomination under any political party for the 2027 presidential election. The plaintiff is also seeking an order stopping the independent national electoral commission in from accepting or publishing Jonathan's name as a candidate. A council to the plaintiff unuay however told the court he had just been served with Jonathan's legal processes and will require time to respond. Justice Peter Leu subsequently adjourned the case to May the 11th for hearing of both the preliminary objection and the substantive suit. The court also directed that hearing notices be served on Ink and the attorney general of the federation who were absent from proceedings. The legal showdown is expected to reignite debate over constitutional term limits and eligibility ahead of Nigeria's 2027 political season. Well, we're joined now by constitutional lawyer Tony Oetto. He joins me virtually. Good to have you join us.

[00:02:20]>> Ah, good day and it's a pleasure. Thank you for having me.

[00:02:24]>> So, interesting times we're in. Before we even get to this particular matter of the former vice president, I'm sure that I mean you've been following all of the court's proceedings regarding electoral matters or pre-electoral matters whether for um the ADC, the PDP. I just want to get your reaction to all of these judgments we've been getting.

[00:02:45]Well, um you know when political season like this are very ripe and we have a lot of um um politicking coming out to play. I I think um that is one of the things we are seeing with respect to the application to restrain uh the former president from contesting the 2027 presidential election. Um constitutionally he still have a time to run. He just just um uh served one time.

[00:03:16]So constitutionally he still has the right to contest if he chooses to contest. I think the suit that went to court for me sound preemptive. Uh but you cannot also say that because politicians they they know the intricacies of the game. Uh they know um the handwritings on the wall when they see one. So I want to assume that um the a young man that went to call to seek an application restraining the former president from contesting the election uh is doing that basically uh because um somebody sent him and he does not want his principal uh to be challenged by the former president. I want to believe that that was the premise upon which they ran to court. Uh the only um bottleneck being that um uh the former president was not served.

[00:04:11]This is not an application that you it's not an expert application. It's a substantive application wherein the parties that are involved have to be properly served. For Mr. President to come through his council and say that he just got the wind of such matter in um the media, he speaks volume. So naturally the court will grant the adjoinment. He entered a conditional appearance which of course is expected and is allowed in law. We expect that at the end of the day to see what happened.

[00:04:46]It's it's not the first time that such application will be coming up.

[00:04:51]I know that there's a substantive judgment that with respect to that which was in favor of the former president to the extent that he cannot be restrained from contesting. The argument was whether um he could be sworn in a third time. having been sworn in as acting president, having been sworn in as president and now talking about being sworn in again. I think that is the abund in the palace of legality as it were.

[00:05:26]But I would say that it is now at the end of the day at the discretion of the judge uh to really give the interpretation of the law as it were.

[00:05:37]whether the first um uh term that he used to to conclude the term of the former president Yara of blessed memory.

[00:05:46]He was sworn in as acting president then sworn in as president at that point in time which made him to spend the residue of the former president st then of course came on board as president for four years making six years. Now whether legally he could be sworn the third time as president.

[00:06:07]>> So I I want to get to that part of whether he can be sworn as a third time.

[00:06:11]But I understand what you're talking about which is the the issue of two terms. Now the conversation is whether the the argument in the constitution is about the number of terms. Some have said look he can do another term but the challenge there is that he will be doing beyond eight years which is what two terms actually means and that so if he comes in now he he would have done six years another four years would mean that he is doing 10 years for that's if he runs and if he wins will mean that he has done 10 years which is unconstitutional so speak to whether it's a number of terms and then against the argument of the number of years >> now see um incidentally I'm trying to um get the provision of the constitution I can't lay my hand on it readily. Now um the president has right to contest two times now. He had contested just once.

[00:07:03]The first tenor was the tenor of a former president that died.

[00:07:09]Now as vice president that is the role you are to play as at that time to deputize and in the event of the absence of the substantive president for whatever reason avalanche of reasons you take over. Now that is a technical agreement on its own. Now subsequent upon which you as a person you are now entitled to contest or to be in that office on two terms. Now the question will now be if you say that the first one was a term now the definition of a term is four years if that is going to be the argument. So you see that there's a legal lacuna there. It's just like when you talk about 12th to third uh during the first republic of Shagari era the argument of what is the definition of 12 to3 at the end of the day I think that um this matter if it goes on may get to the Supreme Court at the end of the day for the Supreme Court to be able to determine whether Mr. Um the former president has the constitutional right to contest. And another thing is this, a right to contest is a different ball game entirely. He has that right to contest. Now, now what you are going to court to do is preemptive. You assume conclusively that he will win. What of if he doesn't win? So that you have gone to court to restrain him from contesting is even an infringement on its own because if he has a right to contest two times and he's contesting now your argument will not be if he wins now that is probability he may win he may not win. Now if he not if he not eventually win you now go to court and say please court help us determine how many years this man that has won the election will stay in that office. That becomes a different ball game entirely. That is why to me as a person I think that running to court at this level may be premature. I don't see any court with due respect granting such order restraining Jonathan from contesting again.

[00:09:23]That's that's my own understanding of the position as it is because whatever you are going to do in court now is going to be preemptive that he would win the election and because you know he will win the election the court should stop him from contesting. What gives you that imp that assurance and that confidence that he will win? Because it is only when he has won the election that the second part of it now comes to reality is activated.

[00:09:55]But for now it cannot be activated.

[00:09:59]And that's that's it's a major legal luna because councils will argue for here council will argue against and both parties are right. Both parties are right. Now it is now at the discretion of the court to determine whether truly he has that right to be the president for another four years.

[00:10:22]>> So for me I just tell you that >> I'm sorry to interrupt you. I'm trying to I'm trying to pull out that section of the um the constitution. I know I I've seen it's 13 135 or 137 but it does talk about how it's a maximum of two terms of four a four year term or you know two terms or four years and I'm wondering two terms of four years and you know I know that part I'm trying to remember that part I also talked about um specifically about whether you take over you know from someone because again we we saw the the judgment on how the content look he's he cannot run again I mean doesn't that also apply >> um to president Gulog Jonathan, former president. Good luck, Jonathan.

[00:11:04]>> You see, um you know why I'm a little bit um skeptical about the application?

[00:11:10]In most cases, we want to see the judgment of the court from a particular perspective and subsequently the judgment comes and we are seeing something different. Yes, you can say that okay the state former theo state governor case may become applicable as a president >> but if you look at it from another perspective as to you know um whether the judge will see it from that perspective you know the judge is just like the editor in any journalistic room the news is what the editor says it is it is not based on the sensation of the reporter the reporter may bring an extremely sensational news that is front burning and the editor may say no this is not going to go on the tabloid. So that is what a judge is now and that is why I said both both arguments are sound and both arguments are right but whether the judge as it is as a different ball game entirely and I've seen it play out severally in this country severally I've seen it play out that is why as a lawyer you just bring up your argument before the court and you are able to establish the fact that okay, President Jolant has served two terms technically because he served to conclude the term of his of his boss Yada and subsequently went on election won the election and that was it. But don't forget that he contested again >> after that he contested against the court didn't the court didn't stop him from contesting against bhari if he had won the election by now we are not going to be saying the same thing >> so we the same thing now apologies like I keep butting because you were making that point which is a really good point because um this issue came up when he was going to run in in 2015 that was the election he lost and then you know he He nobody stopped him by that time. In fact, the court actually said court of appeal and high court said he could run but and there are those who are also saying look um and I know that as a lawyer you help us explain this that the law does not apply retroactively because he was at the time he ran it was 2015 20 2015 and then this law came into effect in 2018 so it doesn't necessarily apply uh to president. Good luck Jonathan is that how it works?

[00:13:43]No, that's that's absolute truth. H law does not act retro and um you know whatever that has been before the law, the law does not affect it. It's just like um government making a law to say that as from now on women should not wear you know women at certain level and at certain age should not do certain things. Now what of those that are before? What of those that have done it before? It's not going to be applicable to those that have done it before. That is why you say it doesn't and the law does not act retrospectively. That is a fact as it is now. I doubt it. If any court can stop Jonathan from running. I doubt it. And that's just the truth. I think what Jonathan is basically trying to do by going to court is to even if he's not going to contest, he should not be on record that he has been technically or legally bad from contesting.

[00:14:47]>> I I don't see between you and I the political landscape now as it is now. I don't see President Jonathan running. I don't see him running. You know, yes, some people may be pushing him and all those stuff. I think he is wiser than that. H there may be pressures here and there but if you look at him he does not belong to any political party now you cannot affiliate him or associate him with any political party as we speak and you are talking of election of just in January 2027 presidential election election these are things that you plan four five years before you move into the race so but I think that is just like let it not be on record that um somebody went to court and I slept and before I knew what was happening a judgment has been passed that I cannot contest again.

[00:15:41]So it's better that let's let's just clear that area. That is the way I personally see it. I may be wrong but I don't expect and I don't see president good luck Jonathan contesting the 2027 election. I don't know of 2031 but 2027 election I don't see him as somebody that have prepared to contest for that election and I don't >> well I like I like that you have brought in the political dimension of this 2031 we if we stay with the arrangement we currently have I'm sure by then would have moved would have moved back to the north in terms of the uh north and south arrangement but I I wanted to ask because you were saying that in terms of the political landscape now you don't see him running is it that the political landscape doesn't favor him or um he doesn't have any more the political capital to run in this kind of political landscape.

[00:16:34]>> The no is both both are highly instructive. Uh the political landscape is a challenging one. Peter Obi is there uh is from the same region with him south. Okay. Southeast but technically from the same region you know with him.

[00:16:53]Now that's that's one. Now you talk of other contestant but Peter is a major factor as we speak. Now not to talk of the articles and um the what called the other contestants that are on ground now that have been you know up and doing with respect to saying that we want to and they have signified their interest expressly. Jonathan has been asked severally whether he's going to contest 2027 election and he didn't tell anybody that he was going to run for 2027. In short, there was one of the interview he said that 2027 he was asking if they have gotten their PVC that 2027 election is not like any other maybe like a student union association election or something like that. So that's to tell you a man that understand the meaning of presidential election. But I see him as somebody who does not want anybody to use the instrumentality of the court to put a caveat on him because the caveat may become perpetual.

[00:17:56]>> So instead of that let this issue of um you know somebody running to court every now and then let it be out of the whole thing. Let him leave his if he decide to contest that should be at his own perogative. He's not going to contest that is going to be at his own perogative. But for me as a person, the landscape as it is now, Jonathan, if he comes out, he has his people that will vote for him and all those stuff like that, but has he been able to penetrate, you know, the whole country, have you even heard that Jonathan went on any political meeting or gathering or invited anybody to his house or has gone to visit any of the emas any of the anywhere in the country.

[00:18:42]So these are and these are fundamental steps you take before you talk about even coming out. If he's doing anything underground, he is too big to do anything secretive that people will not know.

[00:18:56]>> But but in terms of >> that Jonathan is not contesting >> but his name keeps coming up in every election cycle. It looks like there are those who think that he can make a dent.

[00:19:05]>> That was the way it happened in 2023.

[00:19:08]>> Absolutely. There are those who think that he has the capacity to make a dent or cause some level of dent maybe for President Tunu or for Obi. Do you think he still has that political capital?

[00:19:22]>> I don't know if he has the capital to run presidential election. He was president of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. There is no former president or former vice president in Nigeria that is poor. They are all multi-billionaires in dollars.

[00:19:38]So when I say political capital, I wasn't speaking in terms of money, but in terms of support. Um, will he be an asset to any political party today in terms of his ability to win an election?

[00:19:50]>> No. Jonathan Jonathan left gloriously in quotes. Now >> he left gloriously. So if you look at what is happening today visa v the economy and the major instrumentality that drove him out of power was the use of security challenges. Painfully and unfortunately the challenges are still there. So if you are going to put that on the template I can tell you that Jonathan is going to be an extremely marketable candidate. is teno economically is teno in terms of security doing a here there may be a very high level of you know favorable debate in his favor at the end of the day so these are things that you know those that are saying he must not come out not necessarily because he may automatically defeat Mr. President but it may become a very very very big problem to Mr. president because people that are on the street it's not their business whether the president is doing very well or not they are looking at it you know trickling it down to the food the fuel how much are we buying fuel now how much was fuel when Jonathan was president how much are we buying full stop how much was dollar then how much is dollar now these are the comparative analysis the average Nigerian will bring on board and when those arguments come on board I can bet you that the best of Mr. president spokesman may find it very difficult to be able to defeat you know the spokesperson of Jonathan as it were he may have his own flaws he may have and for the fact that he you know step down and for the fact also that he's not a you know this type of person that is aggressively in an aggressor in politics and all those stuff like that a lot of things will work in his favor >> but the sitting president as we speak today is not a child in politics. This is somebody that have put former president in power. President contested for three times consecutively and lost until Tinbu came to assist him and that was what made him president. The same Tinu was the person that more or less like single-handedly contested against the former president, contested against all political class and all political principalities and power in the country and defeated them. So and as we speak today the structure that is on ground is such that it will be difficult for Jonathan to break those structure because the structure of PDP that he most likely would have rode on or ride on to be able to you know counter Mr. President that structure have been destroyed. That structure have been dissipated. That structure is no longer in existence. And that is why it is wisdom for Jonathan to forget about contesting now because he does not have the structure and the template upon which to contest. Is he going to contest on PDP or is he going to be on or on weakest camp? Which camp is he going to flag that you know banner of presidential ticket? Who is going to give him? Is it going to go to ADC? Is it going to go to NDC? Is it going to go to Labor Party? Or is it going to go to a fresh party entirely? So the odds are not in his favor. But as an individual against Mr. President as an individual looking and taking a position of the economy, of security and of all other templates in this country as it works today, Jonathan may defeat Mr. President.

[00:23:34]But Mr. The president has grown beyond that level of individual politician. He has been able to establish structure in such a manner that his victory is devoid of who he is. His victory is not dependent on the structure that he has put in place.

[00:23:50]>> Well, we can also say that uh the former president has become a continental uh continental elder statesman. You know, moving from one country in the continent to resolve, you know, crisis in different countries. Hopefully, I guess he might not also want that. um dented as well, but we'll see how things play out ahead of 2027. Always a pleasure to have you on our constitutional lawyer, Tonio Foyto.

[00:24:12]>> Thank you very much for having me.

[00:24:16]>> All right. Uh that's uh standpoint today. Remember, you can catch a repeat of the program at 11:00 p.m. tonight and 5:00 a.m. on Sunday. I am Precious Amayu. Thanks for watching.