Rubio Goes Full Red Scare | Ken Klippenstein | TMR

[00:00:00]We are back and we are joined once again by our friend Ken Clippenstein, independent journalist covering security and US politics at Clip News on Substack. His latest is entitled After Political Terrorism Summit, US names 43 Americans and groups. Ken, welcome to the show.

[00:00:17]>> Hey. Yeah. Never a headline you love to hear, huh?

[00:00:20]>> No. um this is so troubling and you know you are really I would say the number one reporter to follow on this particular topic. You've been on this for months if not years the Trump administration's attempt to criminalize essentially left-wing politics. Let's start at the beginning though because um you know for maybe somebody is coming to this interview and who who hasn't heard your reporting on this before hasn't heard about NPM7.

[00:00:50]So just at a base level let's just set the foundation for what that is and how over the past few months the Trump administration has been trying to put it into practice and weaponize it.

[00:01:01]>> Okay. So the Trump administration has prioritized in a way that no other administration certainly in living memory maybe ever has prioritized domestic terrorism as a concern. So um the White House's counterterrorism Sebastian Gorka uh couple months ago released the national counterterrorism strategy and in it it identifies three top priorities. The first the first one isn't unsurprising. It's jihadi groups like ISIS and al-Qaeda um that kind of thing. The second one is narco narot traffickers which is obviously a Trump administration focus. But the third one is the one that that is really eyebrow raising which is um political terrorism.

[00:01:40]and they explicitly identify the left and over the course of my reporting in the past couple of years I've seen particularly since the murder of Charlie Kirk the administration and the Treasury Secretary Scott Essen is on record saying this that that was a 9/11 event 9/11 type event and they responded to it much the same way the Bush administration responded 911 which is to um redesign the architecture of the federal national security apparatus and to point it at these um leftwing groups anti-ICE protesters. We just saw uh an extraordinary uh set of sentences handed down literally half a millennium of years in prison for people with the sole exception of the one person who shot somebody who obviously should you know face a long prison sentence for that shot an ICE officer I think it was um the rest of them were given these just completely crazy sentences of like 30 years for moving left-wing literature that was said to be obstructing justice related to the case. So, um, a frustration of mine while reporting on this stuff has been seeing the mainstream media concede that yes, this is true, but like, you know, it's just Trump rhetoric. What are they going to do? There's no domestic terrorism law.

[00:02:51]It's all a bunch of uh just, you know, symbolic talk. No, they are serious about this and they are implementing it.

[00:02:57]And we've seen cases where they've not just arrested and detained people, but now sentenced them with very stiff sentences. So, um, that is kind of the backdrop that that that has taken place.

[00:03:07]And then in uh the week prior to the release of this state department report identifying all these Americans and American organizations, there was an international summit led by Marco Rubio and I think it was over 50 or 60 different um uh foreign governments met with them to discuss the threat of and this is their literal terminology far-left terrorism. They even introduced an abbreviation, an acronym for FLT. So all that to say they're taking this really seriously. It's not just talk.

[00:03:35]They are moving the machinery around to make the government be able to go after cases like this. And that's and that's that's what the that's what this report is a culmination of.

[00:03:44]>> And so yes, and and I want to get to the report in just a second, but to hit on NSPM7 and then also even this Prairieland ICE uh arrest uh you know, travesty here. NSPM7 essentially tells the federal uh law enforcement agencies to prioritize targeting these groups and left-wing groups in particular. And you mentioned the the Prairieland case where over a dozen um people have been uh not even the person who shot somebody, right, but anybody by association has been dragged in to uh the these these charges. And I think like the sentences totaled hundreds of years for for 15 uh Prairie Land uh protesters like what is that to your mind so far the most troubling case of this in action?

[00:04:41]>> Well, I would point to a lot of the cases that we don't know about. Um, I've heard from so many people, including many that can't go on the record because they don't want to, you know, suffer the the potential consequences of having an employer see their name come up next to something. But there are all sorts of visits that the FBI is paying individuals, whether it's for a social media post or in the case of one individual I interviewed and wrote a story about, young man in Arizona who attended a anti-ICE protest, was visited by two FBI agents afterwards. There is this campaign of sort of soft repression going on where they pay them these visits. And as this young man told me, he said, "Well, I'd like to go to the um no kings protest." This was several months ago, but I'm having second thoughts about it now because it was so scary what happened with this visit. So, this is happening everywhere. And that stuff doesn't get reported. And when you try to talk to these people, sometimes they'll have um defense attorneys that'll say, "Don't talk to the press."

[00:05:30]And that makes sense for a defense attorney to tell their client. But the aggregate effect of that is that we have no idea how big this system of they're called joint terrorism task forces.

[00:05:39]These post 911 um structures that exist in all 50 states and which can deputize local police to become effectively federal agents, FBI agents. Um that is the th those are those are the personnel that NSPM7 taps. um when when Trump issued this presidential order stands for national uh security presidential memorandum 7 and tells them to go after these uh groups that they regard as essentially domestic terror threats and there's a whole continuum like at the extreme end we have like you said nearly 500 years of uh federal prison sentences handed down. So that would be the extreme end. But there's a whole center which is what I'm describing which is like maybe someone gets detained for a day and the way I've seen the mainstream media report this is they say oh you know um say there's anti-ICE protesters and they're charged with obstructing ISIS trying to carry out um you know federal tasks or whatever. Literally I've seen on MSNBC expert commentator say oh well no jury will uphold that. And it is so flippant because it's like well hold on a second here. someone was arrested, had to spend a day in jail, and probably, you know, it gets the scared out of them that they have to go and talk to a lawyer and everything. That's not nothing. And that has the effect of scaring people from expressing their political views. So that's the kind of middle of the continuum of of consequences that I don't think gets very much tension >> and and it fits into, you know, the overall narrative of this being a renewal of uh red scare tactics uh and McCarthyite tactics and this administration being really committed to that. So I guess let's go now to last week. you mentioned it, this um event where Steven Miller and Marco Rubio, Secretary of State, both spoke to dozens of uh foreign diplomats essentially and they asked them to, and this was in conjunction, by the way, with the State Department releasing an 100page report uh called Cuba the capital of 21st century communism. And this is all within the same like 48 hours. and Trump also giving this address red scaring about China interfering in our elections. Um, and so you can see how the administration's trying to tie China and but most most critically here Cuba to domestic left-wing organizations as a way to crack down on them. Um, what recap those developments from last week uh with all of that context in mind if you don't mind, Ken? Yeah. So this was what's called a ministerial summit which means very high level people at like the cabinet level um around that. So what what that's to say is like this is not just rhetoric. These are like people like Rubio's time is precious and we're in a situation where he has um secretary of state and dualhated as national security adviser. He has the Iran war to worry about. He has the Ukraine worried to think about. for him to spend an entire day going to the summit meeting with 65 other countries that um a lot of whom I think just went there cuz they're afraid of the US or they want to they want to maintain there were a lot of European countries there that want to maintain relations with the Trump administration. Uh the Mexican president to her credit said I'm not going to this and she said what it was which is that this was a political exercise so she wasn't in attendance which is extraord >> Shine bomb winning as always. Yes.

[00:08:58]>> Yeah. It's extraordinary in itself because Mexico and the US have such close relations um historically for her not to not to go there. But the point of this whole summit was to describe how we're going to and these are direct quotes debank, defund um disrupt and essentially go after that there was no pretense of that this is some sort of neutral oh we're going to look at political terrorism in general.

[00:09:18]They said explicitly farleft terrorism repeatedly. Um, and as you said, it was um the the Treasury Secretary, it was the White House adviser, Steven Miller, it was Marco Rubio, and it was all kinds of people from the top of the State Department. And what's interesting about that and then the subsequent report on alleging Cuban subversion and being behind all these left-wing um groups is that the State Department is supposed to focus on foreign policy. And if you look at that 100page report that was put out on Monday that was connected to and sort of followed this international summit, it mentions I counted like multiple dozens of Americans and American organizations. This is really unusual for the State Department to look back at home and to name American groups. Like I've never seen a report like that before. So, it's very clear that to the extent they're interested in um looking at these foreign groups and labeling them foreign terrorist organizations, it's so that they can bolster some kind of case against people here at home who are the political opponents of the Trump administration.

[00:10:19]>> Yeah. Um and can can you speak about some of the people who were named um in this? I mean, there was a whole section dedicated to DSA, which is obviously immensely concerning, and trying to tie it to Cuba and what they're describing as Cuba's terrorism against the United States because it dares to exist as a communist country.

[00:10:40]>> Yeah. There were three whole pages of this report dedicated to Democratic Socialist America. And what's amazing is it opens by saying like, you know, they have their own organic organic views and and um there isn't any they said something like there isn't any direct um link to to Cuba. and it kind of like clears his throat and it's like wait a second well then why are you talking about any of this but then it goes on to say yeah but they happen to be saying some of the same things and they're sympathetic to the Cubans doesn't that make you wonder and so really it's an exercise in guilt by association uh because they have very mainstream people in this um in this report it mentions New York Mayor Mdani it mentions Amy Goodman of Democracy Now and if you go and you look I I wrote a list of all the names I encourage people to look at it because I'm not exaggerating when I say guilt by association their evidence of like her great crime was attending the wedding of some um left-wing uh wealthy person who finances these various causes and that was it. Nothing like nothing like what she had actually done or said herself, just the association with someone else. Um and not just her Ben Cohen of uh Ben and Jerry's ice cream. Um I mean just like real uh new the mayor of Los Angeles, Karen Bass. So it was kind of interesting.

[00:11:52]>> Okay.

[00:11:53]>> Pretty scary, right? [laughter] >> Not a radical. Not a radical, but okay.

[00:11:57]>> No, they had to point to it was like a blast from the past. I felt like reading it. I was reading it in like sepia tone and it was like some Ken Burns documentary cuz everything they talked about was stuff in the 1970s. The reporters talking about the Symbian Liberation Army and uh the Weather Underground and all these like obscure.

[00:12:14]I mean, I'd like to think I have some literacy on leftwing stuff. There were all kinds of stuff I didn't even know about from the 60s and 70s that they're talking about. And the impression they're trying to give is that violence that took place then, oh, this is DSA is a resurgence of that. It's the same old thing. And but then you look at the contemporary situation now and it's like, you know, there's no comparison.

[00:12:32]It was a much different uh social context. But that's what that's the message they're trying to uh get across.

[00:12:38]And the >> DSA doesn't Sorry, Ken. Just the DSA doesn't do bombings to name one difference.

[00:12:42]>> Yes, that's a pretty I mean that's what that's what you would say as a member of DSA, right? I I that's what I like to believe. I guess [laughter] >> we do not have any knowledge of bombings. Um now we're being sarcastic at FBI at FBI, but uh can you just put this up for a sec because um like I this is not getting a ton of uh of reporting.

[00:13:05]You mentioned Amy Goodman and I think a lot about how Democracy Now has um platform Code Pink over many years, the anti-war activist group. This is from CBS News, now owned and captured by right-wing Zionists. And this is how they frame this. This is from last week.

[00:13:25]Neville Roy Singum, the wealthy husband of the founder of the progressive nonprofit Code Pink and benefactor of far-left political causes, is under criminal investigation by a grand jury in the Southern District of New York, according to multiple sources with knowledge of the matter. This also was a story that dropped um around the same time last week that they announced essentially this crackdown on on left-wing protests and and or political organizing. And so like I don't know the specifics of what's being alleged here, but I do know that that framing by CBS is uh immensely favorable to the claims of the administration um here. And it feels a little bit like, you know, I know we're far past canary in a coal m the coal mine territory, but that's an that's a blinking alarm bell for me.

[00:14:14]>> Yeah. And in the report, which I encourage people to read. It's 100 pages long, but it'll give you a sense of exactly what I'm saying. When I talk about these things, I always feel like as a reporter, I have to try to when things that are factual sound crazy, I'm like trying to think, how do I substantiate this to make clear I'm not editorializing here. It literally said, so one example of what it literally comes out and says this report is it is it refers back to the Red Scare and the McCarthy uh trials and investigations and it says, you know, this was really effective at destroying the commun the American Communist Party at the time.

[00:14:46]And then it transitions into all this contemporary uh domestic political stuff that we're talking about. So the message is clear.

[00:14:54]they say they they want to recreate that and deploy it against um a whole range of figures. I mean you mentioned Code Pink, but there's also I mentioned um Cohen and I mean it's like very mainstream figures in this list including me sitting members of Congress mayor.

[00:15:12]>> Yes. Who are in DSA Zoron Manni Alexandria Kazio. Anyone who's a DSA elected is I guess a leftwing terrorist according to this.

[00:15:19]>> Yeah. I mean, it's barely subtext to look at this and see we want to do the Red Scare again. And um and I wouldn't underestimate the purchase that it's gaining because you're starting to see some Democrats say stuff like, "I don't know about DSA. D like I don't know about the socialism stuff." Like obviously they're not going to come out and be like, I agree with Trump. But what this does is it creates it creates an ick factor around those elements of the progressive Democratic party that's going to make people in the rest of the party say, "Ah, maybe I don't want to associate with them." Like they have these big numbers and crowds and things, but maybe it's not worth it cuz who knows what's going to happen with these investigations and what the administration is saying. And and so I I really wouldn't underestimate that, >> right? Um I I I would agree with you.

[00:16:08]Um, I just sent this Ken's article here.

[00:16:10]Let's just pull it up because there is a list of some of the people in that towards the end um that are mentioned in this report. Uh, here it is. So, you mentioned um Karen Bass, which is a surprising name here, but here's We'll just go through some recognizable ones.

[00:16:27]The Amazon Labor Union.

[00:16:29]>> Oh, yeah. They mentioned Christian Smalls, too.

[00:16:31]>> Yep. Uh, that exactly. Who participated in the convoy to Cuba, so that's going to be their evidence for that. Antifa.

[00:16:37]uh which is you know not a formal organization. There it is. Medadia Benjamin of Code Pink, Black Lives Matter. Um Chasa Bodí, the former district attorney of San Francisco who was ousted by big tech money. Um Ben Cohen you mentioned DSA in general.

[00:16:55]Uh George Floyd.

[00:16:58]>> Yeah.

[00:16:58]>> Okay.

[00:16:59]>> Yeah. So they their view is that um the Cuban government uh trying to [clears throat] agitate around the during the George Floyd protests were like putting out propaganda saying oh the US doesn't care about you if you're a minority that kind of thing which happens that happened during the civil rights movement too. Russia tried to push messaging around the civil rights, but that doesn't mean civil rights movement was like coordinating with them, but that's the game that they try to play.

[00:17:24]>> Right. I mean, then that is how the same justification during the the Red Scare to crack down on civil rights activists, tying them to the USSR and to communism.

[00:17:35]Uh >> does that including ours, we try to say, "Oh, look at how the bloss are being treated in in Iran. Look at how this is what states do.

[00:17:45]>> It would be extraordinary if they weren't doing it.

[00:17:48]>> Yeah. We're I mean the the Trump administration just armed a bunch of Kurds in Iran as a way to with the Israeli government to try to get them to uprise against their own government. The the USSR hasn't or Russia or China or or Cuba hasn't done anything close to that.

[00:18:07]And we do that across the world in a variety of different countries. Um, >> no. The Marco Rubio State Department talks about the Weaguers because they really care about how Muslims are treated.

[00:18:16]>> Oh, yeah. Totally. Exactly.

[00:18:18]>> Um, so Ilhan Omar is named, of course, their daughter and her daughter.

[00:18:23]>> Yeah. I mean, this is really creepy. I I want to stress I spent a lot of time reading these types of reports, and it's very unusual for them to name American citizens, >> let alone sitting members of Congress and their families.

[00:18:35]>> Presley.

[00:18:36]So, did they mention Alexandria Kaziocortez or they just going after black women?

[00:18:42]>> Um, I can't remember. I can't remember in the report. I would have thought so because they had a whole section on DSA that was like Bernie Sanders's express sympathy and and they do it's like the corkboard game where it's like he knew this guy and then that guy knew this guy. That that kind of thing.

[00:18:57]>> Yeah. I mean, can we put it back up? Uh the Maxine Waters mentions >> something like she did in the 1970s some some agitating she did it with some group I think some >> Yes. to extradite Assad Shakur a letter she wrote a letter >> which uh >> not to not extradite Shakur uh I mean I I actually ended up just uh the other day buying her autobiography so I'm sure I'm on some [laughter] list now as well as well as being a DSA member. Maybe I can hit the bingo. Um the people's forum of course PsL the party for socialism and liberation Hassan uh yeah I mean so there you go uh people can check out your article on this to get uh the list but that you also link to the full 100page uh report um you know just any other thoughts here uh uh Ken on this >> I would again just urge people to take this seriously and I don't know what it is on the part of the mainstream that international summit on far-left terrorism that took place last week, the New York Times literally didn't even write it up. They didn't even have like a 200word thing about it, and the strong sense I get based on sympathetic people at these institutions because there are good people basically everywhere, um, is that it's just seen as a clown show and it's not taken sufficiently seriously.

[00:20:16]And, um, and the gears of the national security system move slowly. I mean, it took a year for some of the first NSPM7 related cases to to make it to trial and result, and we're only just now seeing the the the fruits of those attempts.

[00:20:33]So, my hope is that people can care about this before it's too late rather than after stuff starts happening, and that's what I've been trying very hard to do with the newsletter, draw attention to these things early on.

[00:20:44]>> Um, well, as I said, Clip News, got to subscribe to Ken's Substack. Um, I I'm wondering if you could just expand a little on the why tying them to say what they deem as foreign terror is a step up in their attacks on what they've already designated as domestic terror. Um, can can you explain what legal guard rails are removed when that happens?

[00:21:12]>> Oh, the gloves completely come off. Um because under the Constitution, uh the reason there's no law kind of explicitly laying out domestic terrorism is because it's understood that it's just going to violate the Constitution if you do that because Americans are supposed to have >> certain civil liberties protections. But once you can link someone to a foreign group, then it's complicated. I'm not a lawyer, but the idea is that oh, you're not doing it to the individual. you're doing it to this person as a adjunct of a foreign group which does not have constitutional protection since they are obviously aren't in the United States.

[00:21:44]So it's basically turning um someone in the US into al-Qaeda. I don't know how to say that in a way that doesn't sound crazy. Uh but again I would point to the fact that the admin has said this explicitly at the um summit last week uh and I think in this state department report this week that you know we since 911 we focused on these foreign jihadi groups and they explicitly say and now we are going to put on the same footing as these jihadi groups far-left terrorism. They say that openly and that's what's happening. Well, Ken Clippenstein, independent journalist covering security and US politics at Clip News on Substack. Uh, you can read his work there. Subscribe to his newsletter and we will put a link to that down below wherever people are listening to or watching this and at majority.fm.

[00:22:31]Ken, thanks so much. Really appreciate your time today, buddy.

[00:22:34]>> Hey, great to talk to you again, Emma.

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